View Full Version : Vickers Tactical "Enhanced" Intermediate/Advanced Pistol/Carbine Class
Vickers Tactical "Enhanced" Intermediate/Advanced Pistol/Carbine Class
Vickers Tactical will be teaching a hybrid "Enhanced" Intermediate/Advanced level pistol/carbine class in South Hill, Virginia 12/1/06-12/3/06. This class is not listed on Larry’s website because it is something we have put together in the past. The enhanced portion will be the same team/small unit drill that we ran in the last class, plus some of the others that we did not get to due to time constraints (Shooting out of vehicles, more team tactics, ETC.). They will get taught in this class based on class performance. A low light pistol/carbine section will also be taught as well as a Crimson Trace laser grips demonstration. The class will basically be a one day pistol, one day carbine/transitions, and one advanced day with the “Enhanced” portion.
Lead Instructor: Larry Vickers
Assistant Instructor: David P.
Price is $600 per student.
Class Date: December 1, 2006 (Friday) - Decemeber 3, 2006 (Sunday)
Class size: Ten minimum, twelve maximum
Location: South Hill, Virginia (Private Range) - Directions will be provided during class sign up.
Accommodations: I will provide help in locating hotels in the area by emailing every student a detailed list, with locations and contact info.
Class requirements:
- Eye and ear protection (electronic hearing protection is preferred)
- Serviceable duty grade carbine - Points added for using an AK. :D
- Serviceable handgun of at least 9mm Para caliber
- Serviceable sling- suitable for a variety of shooting positions - tactical type preferred
- Minimum 1 carbine magazine pouch - or method to carry spare magazine(s)
- Minimum of 3 carbine serviceable magazines (5 is better)
- Serviceable holster
- Minimum 1 double handgun magazine pouch - two spare mags on body
- Minimum of 3 serviceable pistol magazines (5 is better)
– Ammo: 800 pistol / 1000 carbine - Service type
- Zeroed Weapons : 50 yard carbine preferred, but others are acceptable if you have a good reason why and understand it. Know your handguns zero at various ranges.
- Suitable range wear depending on the season
- Good attitude
Bladerunner
07-14-06, 22:03
Vickers Tactical will be teaching a hybrid "Enhanced" Intermediate/Advanced level pistol/carbine class in South Hill, Virginia 12/1/06-12/3/06. This class is not listed on Larry’s website because it is something we have put together in the past. The enhanced portion will be the same team/small unit drill that we ran in the last class, plus some of the others that we did not get to due to time constraints (Shooting out of vehicles, more team tactics, ETC.). They will get taught in this class based on class performance. A low light pistol/carbine section will also be taught as well as a Crimson Trace laser grips demonstration. The class will basically be a one day pistol, one day carbine/transitions, and one advanced day with the “Enhanced” portion.
Lead Instructor: Larry Vickers
Assistant Instructor: David Pennington
Price is $600 per student.
Class Date: December 1, 2006 (Friday) - Decemeber 3, 2006 (Sunday)
Class size: Ten minimum, twelve maximum
Location: South Hill, Virginia (Private Range) - Directions will be provided during class sign up.
Accommodations: I will provide help in locating hotels in the area by emailing every student a detailed list, with locations and contact info.
Class requirements:
- Eye and ear protection (electronic hearing protection is preferred)
- Serviceable duty grade carbine - Points added for using an AK. :D
- Serviceable handgun of at least 9mm Para caliber
- Serviceable sling- suitable for a variety of shooting positions - tactical type preferred
- Minimum 1 carbine magazine pouch - or method to carry spare magazine(s)
- Minimum of 3 carbine serviceable magazines (5 is better)
- Serviceable holster
- Minimum 1 double handgun magazine pouch - two spare mags on body
- Minimum of 3 serviceable pistol magazines (5 is better)
– Ammo: 800 pistol / 1000 carbine - Service type
- Zeroed Weapons : 50 yard carbine preferred, but others acceptable if you have a good reason why and understand it. Know your handguns zero at various ranges.
- Suitable range wear depending on the season
- Good attitude
Larry would prefer if every student has already taken a Vickers Tactical class, but other training classes and Military/LE experience will be evaluated on a case by case basis.
Several seats have already been filled. I have about 4-5 seats available at this time.
If your interested please contact me via PM or email
Dinger
Your in box is full, I sent you an email to your regular address. I am in for this class.
Colonel, 10-4 and thanks.
I will put you down for a seat.
It is always a pleasure to train with you.
FYI - We are also planning on having a Gem-Tech suppressor demonstration from one of the company reps. It should be very interesting and everybody will get a chance to check out and test fire their products.
Edit (10/18/06) - This never happened. The company rep could not fit this into his schedule.
I'm in.
Now I just need to start sweet talking the wife into letting me go.
ETA: Oh, I need to ask a question: since I didn't take his first one or a previous class with him can I still get in?
I'm in.
Now I just need to start sweet talking the wife into letting me go.
ETA: Oh, I need to ask a question: since I didn't take his first one or a previous class with him can I still get in?
I think it's safe to say we have MANY guys on this forum that will vouch for you.
Your IN.
FYI- I have just four open spots for this class available.
Please contact me via PM or email if you are interested in attending.
FYI - I down to just one open seat available for this class.
11/12 are filled.
Please contact me if your interested.
The class is now full.
I will say thanks to everybody who helped me out filling it.
Bladerunner
10-18-06, 10:41
Is the class still on? I didn't see it on Larry Vickers web page, but he had the AK course posted.
Is the class still on? I didn't see it on Larry Vickers web page, but he had the AK course posted.
Hello Colonel
Yes we are a go.
I will be sending out a payment/range directions/final instruction’s email this week. I’m really looking forward to this class after missing our last class.
OK, I sent out the class email last night.
If I missed anybody please let me know.
crap -- I was just going to email you too see if there is room...
John M is a canuck right?
crap -- I was just going to email you too see if there is room...
John M is a canuck right?
Hi Kevin, yes John M is your friend.
Go ahead and send me an email. I have an open spot if you want it.
FYI - We will be starting the class at 10:00 AM Friday (December 1st). This will allow the guys traveling to get some additional rest and it also ties in nicely with the low light section.
I have also added Kevin_B to the class roster.
This is going to be one outstanding class.
FYI - Due to a few LE individuals having some scheduling issues we have a few open seats available for this class. If you’re interested in attending please contact me, it’s not too late.
Stupid poverty. Hope you guys are able to run another iteration sometime next year.
FYI - Due to a few LE individuals having some scheduling issues we have a few open seats available for this class. If you’re interested in attending please contact me, it’s not too late.
Any word yet?
OK, this class kicks off tomorrow at 10 AM.
See you guys at the range.
Well, I'm home.
The class went extremely well. It was hands down the best class I have ever attended. I was a little rusty on day one but got back on track after some great instruction from Larry & Dave, combined with a few good nights of sleep. The weather was a little wet on day one, but the worst of it came while we were at lunch so we got lucky. The last two days were virtually perfect. All you needed was a light jacket at times. Even the night time low light section wasn't that bad.
I forgot my camera but luckily Jeff S. was there to pick up the slack. Jeff, Vihn, and I took some great pictures. I will be posting them up over the next few days.
I would like to thank everybody who attended for helping to make it one hell of a class. Even if shooting next to Vihn ("The Vihninator") was a humbling experience for three days. LOL
My personal goal for 2007 is to practice often, train hard and MAYBE be qualified to carry Vihn’s gear bag back and forth from his car each day.
For those of you who do not know him – Vihn is the man.
FYI - Larry had a HK45 for us to handle & shoot. It is a very impressive handgun.
That's all for now. I will be posting more details about the class later.
...shooting next to Vihn ("The Vihninator") was a humbling experience for three days. LOL
FYI - Larry had a HK45 for us to handle & shoot. It is a very impressive handgun.
Yes, Vihn is quite a shooter.
Dinger, I would certainly like to hear more details about the HK45 you guys shot, including impressions. If the class AAR isn't appropriate for that, maybe a separate thread is.
Glad to hear the class went well.
Dinger, I would certainly like to hear more details about the HK45 you guys shot, including impressions.
I was very impressed even though I only got to actually shoot one mag (Ten rounds) because I did not have any .45 ammo with me. Vihn and Akoni shot more with it. It does have the finger groves and Spiderman grip design but none of that bothered me in the least. It is a very good looking handgun. The finger groves are very subtle and just "go away" when actually holding it.
IMO - It is a damn fine handgun. It points very naturally and has the ergonomics of a 1911. I have little or no experience with HK triggers but still put the last 2-3 rounds right through the "X" at fifteen yards. The mag release design is also very smart. I figured it out quick enough and it does help to make some quick mag changes. I came away very impressed with the entire handgun.
It's going to be released at SHOT, so everybody should get the chance to handle/shoot/own one shortly. I have the feeling it’s going to be a big hit.
Yet another great class set up by VA_Dinger. I'm beginning to sense a pattern!
It was interesting how the shooters with the Nightforce 1-4x seemed to do okay. :D Perhaps not as much of a handicap as the internet makes it out to be.
My 6920 did not malfunction, and surprisingly, nor did my Pro.
I've been waiting for the HK45 for quite some time and was happy to try it out. Unfortunately, it didn't go as well as I had hoped. I can switch between a 1911 and my USP45 seamlessly. The HK45 trigger must be slightly different or something, because it messed me up big time. So instead of my original plan to purchase two, I'm going to just start off with one to see how it goes. The mag catch is slightly different and will take some getting used to. White sight dots have been replaced with neon green ones that seem to glow. I don't know if they are night sights, as they don't appear to contain tritium vials. I don't recall what the model label indicated. I did not spend much time looking at the gun, but I remember that online, the grip looks grotesque. In person, it's fine.
I can also now state that I have been within one mile of a Nighthawk Vickers gun, as well as a Bob Rodgers gun. :p
Yet another great class set up by VA_Dinger. I'm beginning to sense a pattern!
Thanks Vihn, but I'm just the office bitch who answers the phone & emails. The classes are so good becuase of Larry, Dave, and the great bunch of guys who attend.
It was interesting how the shooters with the Nightforce 1-4x seemed to do okay. :D Perhaps not as much of a handicap as the internet makes it out to be.
No question about it.
The Nightforce is the real deal.
I can also now state that I have been within one mile of a Nighthawk Vickers gun, as well as a Bob Rodgers gun. :p
:D
Damn funny.
You are now cleared to comment on both.
I will start a list of names for the handgun forum. :D
sob
Glad it went well for you -- I'm pissed it missed it -- but hopefully I can squeeze one on on my next leave block
Jay Cunningham
12-06-06, 07:27
For those with first-hand experience, how does the Nightforce compare to the Kahles Helia C 1.1-4x24 and the Meopta Meostar 1-4x22?
Thanks for the review and any additional info.
I would gladly make the drive again to train with that lot! It was a great group of guys and that made me wish that it was a five day course instead. LAV and Dave P were great to work with and I hope to train with them again in the future.
I liked the HK45 but I agree with Vihn (aka the human ransom rest) on the trigger being a bit different. Maybe it's just a familiarization thing. Overall, the HK45 has excellent ergonomics, good sights and is not overly large. You might even be able to conceal it as it is not overly wide. It'll be my next 45 purchase if they ever materialize. I guess SHOT will bring a clearer picture on the release of the HK45.
The HK 416.....damn I want one!
The NF 1-4 was an eye opener. If I was buying another 1-4 right now, the Nightforce would likely get my nod. The FC2 reticle seems immensely useful for that scopes intended purpose.
The new brass magnet made collecting all the fired casings a real joy. I guess I'll have to get one of those also.
Overall, everyone had quality gear and I don't recall any malfunctions that were not operator induced.
For those with first-hand experience, how does the Nightforce compare to the Kahles Helia C 1.1-4x24 and the Meopta Meostar 1-4x22?
Thanks for the review and any additional info.
The only variable magnification optics we had in the class were from S&B & Nightforce.
Grant would be one of the only people I know who has at least handled all of the optics you listed.
FYI - I should have the pictures posted this weekend.
FYI - I should have the pictures posted this weekend.
Sunday night, 8:00 pm. Weekend is almost over!
Sunday night, 8:00 pm. Weekend is almost over!
:D
Sorry about that, I was never able to touch base with Will over the weekend. There are just too many to email so he is burning me a CD.
Hopefully tomorrow.
OK, Akoni hooked me up with some of the class photos.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_05.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_02.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_04.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_07.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_09.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_26.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_21.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_24.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_13.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_10.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_12.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_15.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_14.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_20.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_18.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_19.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_16.jpg
The HK45
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_27.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_28.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_29.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_33.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_32.jpg
That should be enough photos to get us started.
Hopefully, I will get the rest tomorrow afternoon.
A few more pictures, hopefully I will be getting the rest later today.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_22.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_25.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_30-1.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_36.jpg
:D
I cannot remember exactly on what drill I shot this group, but Larry thought it was worthy of a picture. I assume it must have been transitions because I have my carbine slinged. - Also note how Vihn (left side target) has a better group.
My best impression of Vanna White:
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_38.jpg
It was a great class.
I cannot remember exactly on what drill I shot this group, but Larry thought it was worthy of a picture. I assume it must have been transitions because I have my carbine slinged. - Also note how Vihn (left side target) has a better group.
LOL!
LAV with a Grock. Will wonders never cease. Hide those photos before H&K Marketing finds out!
The green on Dave's gun made me do a double take, it looks so much like mine.
LOL!
LAV with a Grock. Will wonders never cease. Hide those photos before H&K Marketing finds out!
No way! Maybe they'll help spur HK on to actually releasing the HK45. We're all goig to pitch in and buy Larry a Bushmaster piston rifle also as a similar tactic for the release of the 416.
Great pics! Can't wait to see more. Who won the walk back drill?
Mike
Great pics! Can't wait to see more. Who won the walk back drill?
Mike
Larry shamed us all with an internally bone stock G19 during both of the walk back drills. I think the longest shot was around 100-110 yards (In bad weather). Very impressive to say the least.
FYI - Larry stated he was shooting a Glock because it’s the most prevalent handgun in his classes lately.
Will requested this one get posted:
:D
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_03.jpg
I should have the rest of the class photos by Monday.
Great pictures, thanks for sharing.
It appears from the pictures that Larry is not a proponent of the squared up stance for CQB like so many other trainers. He also seems to prefer the weak hand further out on the forend without the use of a VFG. Any info would be appreciated.
Jay Cunningham
12-17-06, 03:52
I have not (yet) trained with larry but from AAR's I have seen he does teach to have the weak hand out on the front of the gun. This is more physically fatiguing but allows one to more aggressively drive the gun = it also falls in line with his emphasis on accuracy.
It appears from the pictures that Larry is not a proponent of the squared up stance for CQB like so many other trainers.
This is true. I think of it as carbine stance vs subgun stance. I just use whatever the instructor wants. Before I met Larry, I was always squared up, as that was the only way I had been taught by various instructors. When introduced to the carbine stance, the immediate performance gains in both speed and precision were too substantial to ignore. And while a great many will cry foul over the reduction in plate area presented downrange, the profile difference is not nearly as dramatic as they would have you believe.
This is true. I think of it as carbine stance vs subgun stance. I just use whatever the instructor wants. Before I met Larry, I was always squared up, as that was the only way I had been taught by various instructors. When introduced to the carbine stance, the immediate performance gains in both speed and precision were too substantial to ignore. And while a great many will cry foul over the reduction in plate area presented downrange, the profile difference is not nearly as dramatic as they would have you believe.
As much as I hesitate to say it the competition 3-gunners have been using this stance for increased performance for years. Does anyone know if Paul Howe uses the same stance since he and Larry come from the same training background? Do you suppose many tactical trainers may not be using the carbine stance so as not to be compared to the competition shooters? Seems if you mention competition on some boards you are thought of as less that serious. Certainly there are many differences but many of the techniques developed in competition have led to improved gun handling skills for serious social purposes.
IMHO
Part of the issue with stances, is that a lot of units that where using the MP-5, and thus can shoot in a squared up stance - started to transition to M4/C8 etc. A lot of the squared up doctrine came from the MP-5 days.
basicload explained it quite well on LF in the CQB board - but its been noted elsewhere as well -- you simply cannot shoot a M4 or M16 like you would a MP-5 - the M4 is longer so the balance is different and the recoil is increased.
However in armor you cannot shoot as bladed/angles as LAV is doing in those pictures - you need to adopt your postion to your equipment and tactical needs.
Damn I wish I had been able to make that course.
Matt Edwards
12-18-06, 13:47
I have on pretty good acount that their stances are similar, but I have not trained with PH yet.
Matt
I still have not received the rest of the photos, but it should be any day now.
I did find one more of Larry and his HK416.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/VickersTactical/VT_AdvCarbPist_Dec06_13-1.jpg
Where have you been?
Just working and freaking busy dude.
I pretty sure I am going to make the Ohio class in May.
Maybe Dinger is the "MJ" of pistol shooting.
Mike
:D
I wish that was true.
Note to self: Be more careful when guys are taking pictures next time.
I'm with exit 8, that looks like a lot of fun. Is Larry selling Vickers Tactical ball caps now?
Hi Damon.
They will be available very soon. Check Larry's website after SHOT. I'm not sure if they are going to be sold through his website or Nighthawks.
:D
I wish that was true.
Note to self: Be more careful when guys are taking pictures next time.
Don't let the kidding get to you!
We know you were really using your tongue to determine wind strength/direction, and adjusting your point of aim accordingly!
;)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.