View Full Version : Upper without FA
I'm starting to build my first AR and I was wondering, does anyone make an upper receiver without the forward bolt assist?
Thanks,
Bob
I'm starting to build my first AR and I was wondering, does anyone make an upper receiver without the forward bolt assist?
Thanks,
Bob
i believe the Vltor uppers are available without it... those also have a the picatinny top rail for optics/sights whatever you like
nodak spud makes retro style AR uppers with a carry handle and no FA http://www.nodakspud.com/AR%20Lowers.htm
you could also pick one up surplus.
What does the forward assist do for you that cycling the charging handle can't? You don't need it. I can't remember the last time I used it in the last 15 years.
Exactly. I think it detracts from the looks of the rifle and I hear that using it can create more problems than it can solve. Mind you I have no experience to speak of and have only shot a couple of examples.
I carried an AUG for several years. It didn't have a forward assist; it didn't need it. Neither does a modern AR. If an upper comes with it, so be it, they are ubiquitous, live with it but you don't have to use it.
DPMS and Sun Devil also make uppers without forward assists. the sun devils are billet. the DPMSs don't have ejection port covers either, i dont think.
What's missing in the marketplace, and that I'm hopeful this lightweight barrel trend will spawn, is a true pre-A1 style upper with a flattop instead of the carry handle. All of the other non-FA flattop uppers available that I'm aware of actually weigh more than the standard M4 upper.
I could take or leave the dustcover, but would prefer that the provision to install it at least remain.
Just to be clear, what I want is this in a flattop
http://www.fulton-armory.com/M16Upper-350_50.jpg
do a build with... not a big fan of the foward assist button...
What's missing in the marketplace, and that I'm hopeful this lightweight barrel trend will spawn, is a true pre-A1 style upper with a flattop instead of the carry handle. All of the other non-FA flattop uppers available that I'm aware of actually weigh more than the standard M4 upper.
I could take or leave the dustcover, but would prefer that the provision to install it at least remain.
Just to be clear, what I want is this in a flattop
http://www.fulton-armory.com/M16Upper-350_50.jpg
http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/images/?id=821 ?
Not the same thing.
First it's missing the dustcover provision. Second, it's "reinforced" which means thicker which means heavier.
geminidglocker
03-10-10, 05:18
I never used the forward assist in combat. Now ya'll got me thinkin'.:confused:
sonrider657
03-10-10, 12:14
If you need light weight and you're not afraid of plastic, you can use a Bushmaster Carbon-15 Upper. I used one on this super-lightweight build and it works well (admitedly, I only have a few hundred rounds through it so far so I cannot comment on its long-term or severe-duty endurance).
http://www.christiancarnivore.com/magpul.jpg
If you need light weight and you're not afraid of plastic, you can use a Bushmaster Carbon-15 Upper. I used one on this super-lightweight build and it works well (admitedly, I only have a few hundred rounds through it so far so I cannot comment on its long-term or severe-duty endurance).
Any better source than BM to get the stripped upper for a reasonable price? I'm not terribly enthused about them but I might be willing to try one on a current project.
AnimalMother556
03-10-10, 23:46
http://www.lesbaer.com/223parts.html
I don't know anything about these or where you'd go about getting one, but at least it's a forged aluminum upper. I see it does have the shell deflector though, so it's still not quite what you had in mind.
http://www.lesbaer.com/223parts.html
I don't know anything about these or where you'd go about getting one, but at least it's a forged aluminum upper. I see it does have the shell deflector though, so it's still not quite what you had in mind.
Thanks!
Upper Only: Flattop Upper w/out provision for Forward Assist With Port Cover $ 129.00 (http://www.lesbaer.com/prices.html#223parts)
Wonder if they have M4 feedramps...
I looked at no FA on my little build a few months back. A 9MM upper with the extra machining to accept the gas tube does it. Some 9's have a full sized ejection port and cover and come complete. With the Adco shop labor it came in at about $180 from what I could quickly source online.
That's a $80 premium over a commonly available one. I'm sensitive to paying more for less. I didn't see it as a viable alternative. The basic commodity price of a FA upper is cheaper than dirt right now.
Rob's comment on rifle stocks and the cost/benefit ratio they have comes to mind. A lot of items are pricey for what little they offer. I'm trying to put money in the basic operating system rather than the accessories. The economic fact such as FA uppers being cheaper means accepting some things you don't want, to spend money on things you do.
For example, I see a side charger upper from ASA as a better and more affordable option than a piston in any configuration. No FA, too. I can play with the numbers to justify it, but it actually comes down to what do I have to leave off to afford it?
We all make those little decisions in a build, it does affect the result. Some focus on the drivetrain, others the body work. Where do you put the money? Hmmm. . .
For me, at least, this has nothing to do with economics. Outside of the carbine I shoot virtually all the time every other rifle is an experiment, or a collection of experiments. If they weren't, I wouldn't be assembling a new carbine at all.
My methodology is largely to have one go-to gun and a series of test-bed guns. If a part or accessory works out on the test-bed gun then it may make it's way to the primary. If it doesn't then it gets boxed, or sold, and something else is tried.
Al U. 5811
03-11-10, 10:16
I guess I share the same concept as Rob. I have my main gun, I call it my "Social Carbine", and a few others that get parts swapped as test beds. My main has thousands of rounds through it while the others are in the hundreds.
FWIW. The Les Baer link posted is most likely modded DPMS parts, as he uses mostly parts from that man. for the LB AR platform.
I have two of the DPMS slick side, and had to grind the lugs on both to properly fit into a lower without resorting to banging it closed and prying it open.
Also have the billet Sun Devil and it does not have M4 ramps for those that care. Neither does that DPMS for that matter.
AnimalMother556
03-11-10, 16:45
The LB upper was merely a suggestion. I'd rather try one of those over a composite receiver if I were looking to experiment with such things. That said, Rob, if you happen to buy such a receiver, please post your experiences with it here or on your website.
The Les Baer link posted is most likely modded DPMS parts, as he uses mostly parts from that man. for the LB AR platform.
I don't think the upper linked to is a DPMS part. I've never seen that version from them before. I've never seen it from anyone before for that matter.
LB does their own machining from forgings.
JBecker 72
03-11-10, 21:24
didnt gotm4 do a build like this?
Sent an email to LB asking about their upper. Here is the exchange. I think I'm going to order one.
Rob,
Yes, when you order just specify with M4 feed ramps.
Brenda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob"
To: <info@lesbaer.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:13 PM
Subject: upper question
> Does your • Flattop Upper Without Provision For Forward Assist, With Port
> Cover come with M4 feedramps cut into the upper?
Update from Fulton. Not good news IMHO.
Hi Rob,
I regret to say that we do not have plans for a flattop at this time.
We are very sorry.
Thank you for the interest
Andrea
On 3/10/10 4:54 AM, "Rob" wrote:
> > Do you all make, or have plans to make, a flattop version of this upper?
> >
> > Upper Receiver, M16, "Slick Side" Type, GI Contract Quality, Hard Coat
> > Black Anodized
> >
> > Given the current trend towards lightweight barrels and guns I think it
> > would be a welcome addition to the market.
ca_fireman19
03-16-10, 20:03
I saw Sun Devil mentioned above, but I want to mention it again because they make fantastic receivers...I have an SD15 lower and it blows away all the others I looked at!
Here's a couple more options............
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=462
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=587
Here's a couple more options............
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=462
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=587
Rob already pointed out those are heavier than a regular upper which kinda defeats the purpose...
Sent an email to LB asking about their upper. Here is the exchange. I think I'm going to order one.
Rob,
Yes, when you order just specify with M4 feed ramps.
Brenda
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob"
To: <info@lesbaer.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 8:13 PM
Subject: upper question
> Does your • Flattop Upper Without Provision For Forward Assist, With Port
> Cover come with M4 feedramps cut into the upper?
I would like to see pictures if you order one!
I have had two of the Les Baer slick sided uppers for many years now and they are very well made. I just wish they didn't include the case deflector. I want one just like my Fulton Armory slick side that is on my carbine (shown at the beginning of this thread) but without the handle for a coyote rifle. Anyone got a weight on the DPMS Lo-Pro? They are on sale at Midway very cheap this month.
blackfly53
02-22-11, 03:27
I have had two of the Les Baer slick sided uppers for many years now and they are very well made. I just wish they didn't include the case deflector. I want one just like my Fulton Armory slick side that is on my carbine (shown at the beginning of this thread) but without the handle for a coyote rifle. Anyone got a weight on the DPMS Lo-Pro? They are on sale at Midway very cheap this month.
Holy thread revival!
Question for you, did you have to have your Les Baer upper matched to the lower? I just bought one of those forward assist-less uppers and it was not close to fitting my lowers. Les said all of his uppers are machined to the heavy side of spec to be matched with the lower. I am sending it back as we speak so he can match it to my lower. I couldnt find anything about that on his website.
I didn't see any comment about that on the site either. I have to bash the takedown pin into place to get the upper and lower together.
I don't know which is worse, companies that are so sloppy that they can't get the upper and lower to fit together or ones that do it on purpose for some cockamamie reason.
If you guys have no need for a forward assist, but shoot supressed, you should get a gas vent for the crap that comes back into the upper. It replaces the forward assist and gives the gasses a route to escape instead of under the charging handle. I am going to buy a few for my uppers as soon as my SPR/M4 stamp comes back.
http://www.weaponoutfitters.com/collections/ar-15-upper-receiver-parts/products/ar-gas-vent
Back to one of the points brought up in the thread:
I use the forward assist after doing a press check. I just don't trust my carbine to seat forward completely when not allowed to slam home.
It's also something to **** with when I have too much nervous energy.
I'm a lefty so the shell deflector is a must. It's my understanding that the Vltor Mur without the forward assist weights less than a standard flattop upper. I can't find the official weight though.
Here it is. Bottom of the page. Less than 8 oz.
http://www.vltor.com/mur.htm
Back to one of the points brought up in the thread:
I use the forward assist after doing a press check. I just don't trust my carbine to seat forward completely when not allowed to slam home.
It's also something to **** with when I have too much nervous energy.
I hear ya on both the nervous energy and the not trusting it to seat. My only concern with this would be the extra force of the forward assist driving the bullets back in the casing and creating a pressure spike when the round fired. Not to long ago I witnessed someone running what granted was a malfunctioning carbine (pretty sure it was a leak at the gas block) and they were really working the forward assist. I picked up some of the unfired rounds off the ground after he would clear malfunctions and the rounds were noticeably shorter with the bullet seated way too deep. ???
If the use of the FA is driving the bullets deeper into the case, the rifle has serious dimensional problems. The FA cannot push the BCG any further forward than letting the BCG go with the bolt release would
Not to long ago I witnessed someone running what granted was a malfunctioning carbine (pretty sure it was a leak at the gas block) and they were really working the forward assist. I picked up some of the unfired rounds off the ground after he would clear malfunctions and the rounds were noticeably shorter with the bullet seated way too deep. ???
Was the shooter using reloads? I've noticed that if I don't get the nut securing the seating plug in my .45 ACP die snugged down very well against the die body, the plug will vibrate down slowly and seat the bullets deeper and deeper. Once I figured out it was doing that I stop every now and then to check and make sure things are still tight but the shooter may have had the same issue with reloaded .223...
The Assist is there in case you have a dirty chamber for various reasons (think Afghanistan and Iraq) and you do a press check... The FA would come in handy then. However, back in the real world, we do not have that problem and we do not have much use of the FA. On my SR15 I can ride the CH and the bolt will not seat all the way forward. I can do this on an empty rifle. With a mag putting pressure on the carrier, it would be worse, so I can see the benefit of the FA. For people like rob_s when competition shooting etc, it may not make sense and would provide a lighter upper.
blackfly53
02-23-11, 21:15
If you guys have no need for a forward assist, but shoot supressed, you should get a gas vent for the crap that comes back into the upper. It replaces the forward assist and gives the gasses a route to escape instead of under the charging handle. I am going to buy a few for my uppers as soon as my SPR/M4 stamp comes back.
http://www.weaponoutfitters.com/collections/ar-15-upper-receiver-parts/products/ar-gas-vent
I have a few of those AR Gas Vents. They work great!
Yea, I wish his site (Les Baer) mentioned something about having to match the upper and lower together. I guess I will bide my time and know that when it comes back it will be a perfect fit, oh well. I can wait since I dont even have a barrel assembly in hand yet.
Was the shooter using reloads? Don't know for sure. They tried it with some of my ammo that was XM193 and it did the same thing though.
Back to one of the points brought up in the thread:
I use the forward assist after doing a press check. I just don't trust my carbine to seat forward completely when not allowed to slam home.
It's also something to **** with when I have too much nervous energy.:haha:
lol.
variablebinary
03-09-11, 20:30
Back to one of the points brought up in the thread:
I use the forward assist after doing a press check. I just don't trust my carbine to seat forward completely when not allowed to slam home.
It's also something to **** with when I have too much nervous energy.
I am always pressing on the foward assist. Maybe it is to give my fingers something to do.
Either way, I don't think I would trust a carbine without an FA. That's just me though
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