View Full Version : Milwaukee LEO sentenced to 18 months
I saw this first on FOX News. What are some thoughts here on this?
http://www.thisis50.com/profiles/blog/show?id=784568%3ABlogPost%3A19633859
This was just the website that had the full video, audio, and court video.
VooDoo6Actual
03-10-10, 14:32
imo,
lots of ways to handle it differently.
I would have especially knowing of the video rolling. ;)
Guilty, sentenced, justice served. His fellow inmates won't be in handcuffs.
I've been wondering about that camera.
Wouldn't the officer know it was there? Or are there cameras in place that the officers don't always know about?
Can any LEOs on the forum speak to this?
I'm going to bet his union wouldn't allow hidden cameras.
PRGGodfather
03-10-10, 17:29
No excuses. Stupid. Sure as heck wasn't worth it.
Wow, that guy ruined his life for 10 seconds of stupidity.
While I certainly do not condone what that deputy did, the website shows the typical inability of the media to get even the most basic facts straight.
The deputy is a Milwaukee County Sheriff, NOT a Milwaukee cop.
And by all accounts is a good guy.
And by all accounts is a good guy.
I'll have to disagree with that statement. While I think the guy deserves to lose his job, and never work in law enforcement again, I think prison time is grossly excessive.
While I certainly do not condone what that deputy did, the website shows the typical inability of the media to get even the most basic facts straight.
The deputy is a Milwaukee County Sheriff, NOT a Milwaukee cop.
And by all accounts is a good guy.
There are other articles pertaining to this that got his title right. FYI - Most civilians consider Sheriff, Deputies, LEOs and similar to be cops.
The video contests his being a "good guy". Just because he wears a badge doesn't constitute him being a good guy nor does it make him a prick. His actions in that video show him to be nothing but a criminal.
Belmont31R
03-10-10, 19:49
I'll have to disagree with that statement. While I think the guy deserves to lose his job, and never work in law enforcement again, I think prison time is grossly excessive.
If I went up to a LEO, and hit him in the face a couple times damned sure Id receive serious charges. There are also special laws that make force on an LEO a worse crime than that of an average citizen. An assault on the kings men and all that....
LEO should be more accountable for their actions....
If I went up to a LEO, and hit him in the face a couple times damned sure Id receive serious charges. There are also special laws that make force on an LEO a worse crime than that of an average citizen. An assault on the kings men and all that....
LEO should be more accountable for their actions....
+1 on this one as well...no i'm not following you around either 31R...
rickrock305
03-10-10, 19:59
And by all accounts is a good guy.
not the account i saw.
anyone else notice he punches like a girl? :D
VooDoo6Actual
03-10-10, 20:20
While I certainly do not condone what that deputy did, the website shows the typical inability of the media to get even the most basic facts straight.
The deputy is a Milwaukee County Sheriff, NOT a Milwaukee cop.
And by all accounts is a good guy.
I'm fairly certain of what I saw on that video.
What I saw on that video in no way would or could I ever construe that as a good guy....
Plenty of other ways good guys handle that situation, plenty
not the account i saw.
anyone else notice he punches like a girl? :D
Yup, I noticed those "punches".lol.
As for people saying he's a good guy, nah, not buying it. Good men do not assault others while they have their hands tied behind their back. Thats actually quite cowardly.
No excuses. Stupid. Sure as heck wasn't worth it.
100% correct
Wow, that guy ruined his life for 10 seconds of stupidity.
yup, see above
There are other articles pertaining to this that got his title right. FYI - Most civilians consider Sheriff, Deputies, LEOs and similar to be cops.
The video contests his being a "good guy". Just because he wears a badge doesn't constitute him being a good guy nor does it make him a prick. His actions in that video show him to be nothing but a criminal.
I know about the other articles, I've seen quite a few of them. I just shake my head and laugh at websites like that one, especially after reading some of the comments. Wow!
Never said he's a good guy "because he wears a badge." Never met this fella in my life...but I did talk to two coppers today, that I have known for years and respect; that know the deputy...they say he's a good guy...therefore he's a good guy.
If I went up to a LEO, and hit him in the face a couple times damned sure Id receive serious charges. There are also special laws that make force on an LEO a worse crime than that of an average citizen. An assault on the kings men and all that....
LEO should be more accountable for their actions....
Sadly, no you wouldn't, at least not in Milwaukee County. There are "special laws" but they are rarely enforced, or even charged.
We are already more accountable than you will ever know.....
We did not see what this guy did to be arrested in the first place, nor was the jury allowed to know (probably.) Would anything the arrestee had done prior justified what the deputy did? No it wouldn't have, but would you still be calling for the head of this poor deputy if the arrestee was a drunk driver? What if he had just participated in the gang-bang rape and torture of a 10 year old?
Had this been two thugs duking it out on the street they would have gotten... tickets.
Had this been a citizen somehow gaining access to a hancuffed prisoner and bitch-slapping him a few times...plead down to a ticket while the officers that allowed it would (rightfully) be looking at departmental investigation/discipline at least.
Had this been a thug punching a uniformed cop a couple times...it probably wouldn't even be charged.
One dumb decision...lasting all of 15 seconds by an otherwise good guy does not rate 18 months in prison when many-time-over convicted felons would get squat for the same thing.
Should he lose his job? Yes.
Never allowed to work in LE again...sure.
18 months and a felony conviction...HELL NO!
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/86602027.html
A former Milwaukee County sheriff's sergeant was sentenced Friday to 18 months in prison for repeatedly slugging a handcuffed suspect in the face, an outburst his attorney blamed on post-traumatic stress disorder.
Even the prosector agreed that Scott Krause's outburst was out of character, but the judge said a prison term was needed to help restore community trust in law enforcement.
Circuit Judge Thomas Donegan also suggested that if the sheriff's office had had an officer-support team such as the one at the Milwaukee Police Department, Krause might never have reached the breaking point that he did Oct. 16. The team is designed to recognize early signs of job stress and offer peer intervention.
Almost reluctantly, Donegan imposed the prison term, plus a concurrent nine months for misdemeanor battery, as a message to the community that justice will hold law enforcement officers to a high standard. Krause, 38, was taken into custody after the sentencing.
At Friday's hearing, Deputy District Attorney Kent Lovern played video taken from inside the patrol car, which was parked at the sally port of the County Jail. Ray Calderon, handcuffed behind his back and belted into the back seat, swears and lightly kicks the car window as he says he needs to urinate. Krause opens the door and smashes Calderon several times in the face with a closed fist.
Lovern said while Calderon was hardly a model prisoner, other deputies dealing with him that day showed restraint when he acted up.
Lovern acknowledged that Krause had no prior complaints about excessive force and was generally held in high regard for professionalism and integrity.
"We're not dealing with a rogue cop here," he said but added that the case deserved a prison term to reassure the community that police officers' powers are not unrestrained.
Calderon told Donegan he hasn't been the same psychologically or physically since the attack and said he's still receiving treatment for injuries.
Krause, who cried through much of the hearing, apologized to Calderon, his family, the sheriff's office and the community.
Jay Schrinsky, a psychotherapist, testified he has been seeing Krause weekly since October, and that he suffers from PTSD, brought on by his two combat tours in the U.S. Army. About two weeks before the beating, Krause separated from his wife, the therapist said.
Krause's attorney, Michael Steinle, said Krause couldn't even remember the beating because his brain had blanked it out immediately. But when confronted with the videotape, he was ashamed and remorseful and never tried to blame Calderon for provoking him or use union rules to try and keep his job.
Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. said Friday that it was ironic that others would question the lack of an officer support team within his department. In 2006, he invited the Fellowship of Christian Centurions to speak at roll calls. The deputies association sued, and last year, a federal appeals court upheld a finding that Clarke violated the constitutional separation of church and state.
Clarke said that's made him "gun shy" about trying to establish any other sort of peer support team. He noted that deputies can utilize the Employee Assistance Program available to all county employees.
Roy Felber, president of the Milwaukee Deputy Sheriffs' Association, said deputies did try to start their own support team, working with someone from the Milwaukee Police Department. He said the association tries to make initial referrals to mental health professionals because many deputies don't feel confident that inquiries through the EAP will remain confidential.
Mike Miller
03-10-10, 21:21
18 months? Hell yes. I don't care what the guy did, he was restrained and defenseless. That officer broke the public's trust in him.
El Vaquero
03-10-10, 21:22
18 months is steep. He shouldn't have to do time in prison. I don't know if the judge was trying to make a statement or what. A few years ago we had an officer who threw a handcuffed drunk woman on the concrete (with camera rolling). She wasn't actively resisting and he too had just lost his cool with her. Her face got busted up a little. He got fired and assault charges were filed against him. He plead out was given 5 years probation and his peace officer license was taken away. We still use his video for training for what not do.
Had this been a thug punching a uniformed cop a couple times...it probably wouldn't even be charged.
One dumb decision...lasting all of 15 seconds by an otherwise good guy does not rate 18 months in prison when many-time-over convicted felons would get squat for the same thing.
I appreciate your approach and the way you answered people's questions without becoming hostile or "us VS them". However, I will disagree with the consequences of hitting a cop, you're gonna get your ass kicked and most likely by several of them.
I've seen videos, I'm sure we all have, of LEOs losing it and knocking the piss out of someone. I will never fully understand their job, the stress and the BS that they have to deal with but I don't think it justifies beating on defenseless people. I've also seen others get off with a slap on the wrist who've committed much more serious offenses on video. Many, many otherwise good guys who aren't a LEO have made stupid 15 second decisions that've impacted their lives in major ways, including prison. The problem here is he's assaulting a handcuffed prisoner under color of law and we're looking at the incident, not his past. I think the 18 month deal is meant to make an "example" of him to other LEOs.
As far as the PTSD, if he was suffering from it then he should not have been in a uniform and carrying a firearm.
Respectfully,
Irish~
I appreciate the honest responses for this thread that have come through.
And as I stated in the original post this website was just the 1st on the Google list that included the video, audio, and courtroom scene.
I'm not part of the inner city minority cop bashing scene but I do have serious concerns about LE brutality.
On this forum I know there are a lot of LEOs and military. Why won't they respond? Why won't they respond? Why won't they respond?
It's maddening. If this is not the type of crime that should put a LEO away for some time then WHAT IS? Maybe he doesn't deserve it for this. BUT THEN FOR WHAT?
You cannot hide behind the "We put it on the line everyday" factor for every possible breach of criminal law.
What then should a LEO be punished for?
Hey, just be glad the Feds didn't handle this one. Max for that in their system is ten years.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,588743,00.html
MADISON, Wis. — Many law enforcement officers called up to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan are finding it difficult to readjust to their jobs once home, bringing back heightened survival instincts that may make them quicker to use force and showing less patience toward the people they serve.
In interviews with The Associated Press and in dozens of anecdotes compiled in a survey by the International Association of Chiefs of Police and the U.S. Bureau of Justice Assistance, officers described feeling compelled to use tactics they employed in war zones after they returned to work in the U.S.
One officer said he felt compelled to fire his gun in the air to disperse an unruly crowd in California. Others said they felt they felt wary about being flanked when working crowd control. And others said after seeing the hardships ordinary Afghans and Iraqis lived with, it's hard to care about complaints over pet droppings.
The report, which was issued late last year, warns that the blurring of the line between combat and confrontations with criminal suspects at home may result in "inappropriate decisions and actions — particularly in the use of ... force. This similarity ... could result in injury or death to an innocent civilian."
In two high-profile cases, officers blamed their overzealous use of force on complications from their military service.
Wayne Williamson, an Austin, Texas, police officer who served 18 months in Iraq, was fired in 2008 after he opened fire on a fleeing assault suspect in a crowded parking lot. A dispatcher had reported that the suspect was carrying a knife, but Williamson said he didn't see a weapon when he fired.
None of the rounds hit their mark, but one struck a minivan with two children inside. They were not injured.
Williamson told investigators he had been having trouble readjusting to some aspects of civilian life and that he had trouble differentiating between Iraq and Austin during the confrontation.
"In Iraq, if a bad buy gets away, he could come back and blow you up or blow up someone who works with you," Williamson told the AP. "You do everything you can to make sure the bad guy doesn't get away. ... I can't absolve myself of Iraq. How deeply it affected me, I don't know ... I'm not the same person who left."
His police chief didn't buy it, noting in the disciplinary records that Williamson hadn't previously showed signs of distress.
On Friday, a former sheriff's sergeant who served in the Gulf War before leaving the Army 17 years ago was sentenced to 18 months in prison for repeatedly punching a handcuffed suspect in the face in the back of his squad car. Scott Krause, 38, has post-traumatic stress disorder and doesn't remember the incident, which was videotaped, Krause's psychotherapist told the judge at the sentencing hearing.
Krause's former boss, Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke, said Krause never told his colleagues he was struggling.
The survey was based on interviews with 53 law enforcement officers who had returned from serving in the National Guard or reserves, as well as written responses from 340 returned veterans and 112 police chiefs.
Laura Zimmerman, a psychologist who contributed to the study, said the irritability some respondents reported feeling with citizens back home stems from a sense that the stakes have been lowered. Officers have gone from helping build nations to writing speeding tickets, she said.
"They've seen bigger problems now. Coming back to policing, the mission doesn't feel as critical," she said. "Once you raise the bar, coming back down is just difficult. I think it's just that feeling of non-purpose here."
Todd Nehls, the sheriff of Dodge County, Wis., and a colonel in the Wisconsin National Guard, said that after spending a year stationed in Afghanistan, he's had less patience for small complaints back home. After seeing people go without electricity and walk miles for fresh water, he said, you quickly grow tired of citizens complaining about dogs urinating in their neighbor's lawn.
Zimmerman said the urban nature of the Iraq war, as compared to the jungle warfare that dominated the Vietnam War, may have made it more difficult for some returning officers to adjust to urban life back home. She said examples like Williamson's shooting are rare, but that potential is there.
"Now it is easier to muddle the environments," Zimmerman said.
The study's authors hope it will help law enforcement agencies develop protocols to help reintegrate the thousands of officers called up since the start of the war in Afghanistan.
The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs offers no programs specifically for police officers, but many larger law enforcement agencies have started reintegration programs that include visits with psychologists, weapons refresher training and rides with trainers.
The Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, which lost 364 of its employees to deployment shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, began requiring returning deputies to go through weapons and driving refresher training and ride-alongs before returning to patrol.
Jung Kim, a pyschologist who interviews every returning deputy as part of the department's reintegration program, said many report having trouble sleeping, feeling safe on patrol in their squad cars.
"(Overseas) they go over medians and bump cars in front of them to get them out of the way," Kim said. "Obviously you can't do that."
Clarke, the Milwaukee County sheriff, said the squad car beating has led him to look into how other agencies deal with returning veterans. He said it's important that returning officers find the strength to talk openly about their problems.
"If the person doesn't develop that courage to say, 'hey, I need help,' it's very difficult to help them before they reach a breaking point," Clarke said.
ven the prosector agreed that Scott Krause's outburst was out of character, but the judge said a prison term was needed to help restore community trust in law enforcement.
Circuit Judge Thomas Donegan also suggested that if the sheriff's office had had an officer-support team such as the one at the Milwaukee Police Department, Krause might never have reached the breaking point that he did Oct. 16. The team is designed to recognize early signs of job stress and offer peer intervention.
Lovern acknowledged that Krause had no prior complaints about excessive force and was generally held in high regard for professionalism and integrity.
"We're not dealing with a rogue cop here," he said but added that the case deserved a prison term to reassure the community that police officers' powers are not unrestrained.
Krause, who cried through much of the hearing, apologized to Calderon, his family, the sheriff's office and the community.
Jay Schrinsky, a psychotherapist, testified he has been seeing Krause weekly since October, and that he suffers from PTSD, brought on by his two combat tours in the U.S. Army. About two weeks before the beating, Krause separated from his wife, the therapist said.
I guess equal rights under the law is for other countries, not the high and mighty United States?
Sorry, but an 18 month prison sentence for a man with a diagnosed mental condition who also shows remorse is complete bullshit. It wouldn't happen to any other upstanding citizen who had no priors. The judge even admits that he's not imprisoning the deputy because he deserves it, but to satisfy the revenge lust of the community. That right there is enough to get the sentence overturned and I hope he does.
The deputy would have hardly been worse off if he had said he enjoyed doing it and would do it again if given the chance. So much for throwing yourself on the mercy of the court. :mad:
Well on the good news side, dude did stop kicking the door!
Belmont31R
03-11-10, 09:46
I guess equal rights under the law is for other countries, not the high and mighty United States?
Sorry, but an 18 month prison sentence for a man with a diagnosed mental condition who also shows remorse is complete bullshit. It wouldn't happen to any other upstanding citizen who had no priors. The judge even admits that he's not imprisoning the deputy because he deserves it, but to satisfy the revenge lust of the community. That right there is enough to get the sentence overturned and I hope he does.
The deputy would have hardly been worse off if he had said he enjoyed doing it and would do it again if given the chance. So much for throwing yourself on the mercy of the court. :mad:
If you want to talk about equal protection under the law......
LE can: own guns we cannot, have special protection under the law, cannot be charged with crimes they commit in the course of their duties, can carry guns places we cannot, can drive on the street and do things that would get us a hefty ticket, have always had a bigger voice in court against citizens, and the list can go on. For decades LE have been a very protected class of society. What other job can you commit a crime, and not be charged with it because they were doing their jobs "in good faith".
Frankly LE should be held to a higher standard because the people have given them the trust and faith to enforce the law. That doesn't include punching defenseless people in the face repeatedly for tapping on a window with their foot. Again if I went up to a random LEO, and hit them in the face a few times Id have hell to pay. Id get charged with a special crime only applicable for LE...."assault on a peace officer", and especially here in TX I'd have the book thrown at me.
If you want to talk about equal protection under the law......
LE can: own guns we cannot, have special protection under the law, cannot be charged with crimes they commit in the course of their duties, can carry guns places we cannot, can drive on the street and do things that would get us a hefty ticket, have always had a bigger voice in court against citizens, and the list can go on. For decades LE have been a very protected class of society. What other job can you commit a crime, and not be charged with it because they were doing their jobs "in good faith".
Frankly LE should be held to a higher standard because the people have given them the trust and faith to enforce the law. That doesn't include punching defenseless people in the face repeatedly for tapping on a window with their foot. Again if I went up to a random LEO, and hit them in the face a few times Id have hell to pay. Id get charged with a special crime only applicable for LE...."assault on a peace officer", and especially here in TX I'd have the book thrown at me.
and another +1...
damn, now i don't have to type it again, you just submitted a reply that i was thinking again...i've been reading this since last night and must agree again!!!
Disciplinary action is warranted but the 18 months is absurd. That judge is playing into the hands of the criminal element.
Besides, he was told not to kick the window, and it’s like grand-paw used to say…. “If you don’t want to listen, you’re going to have to feel.”
If you want to talk about equal protection under the law......
LE can: own guns we cannot, have special protection under the law, cannot be charged with crimes they commit in the course of their duties, can carry guns places we cannot, can drive on the street and do things that would get us a hefty ticket, have always had a bigger voice in court against citizens, and the list can go on. For decades LE have been a very protected class of society. What other job can you commit a crime, and not be charged with it because they were doing their jobs "in good faith".
Frankly LE should be held to a higher standard because the people have given them the trust and faith to enforce the law. That doesn't include punching defenseless people in the face repeatedly for tapping on a window with their foot. Again if I went up to a random LEO, and hit them in the face a few times Id have hell to pay. Id get charged with a special crime only applicable for LE...."assault on a peace officer", and especially here in TX I'd have the book thrown at me.
Your post exhibits the very signs of anger and lust for revenge that I described previously. What ever happened to Lady Justice being blind? Oh well, point missed, moving on now! :rolleyes:
18 months? Hell yes. I don't care what the guy did, he was restrained and defenseless. That officer broke the public's trust in him.
While I agree that he broke the public's trust, restrained does not mean defenseless. I've seen handcuffed and shackled prisoners hurt cops many times.
I appreciate your approach and the way you answered people's questions without becoming hostile or "us VS them".No problem. But I do see it as "us VS them"...the "us" being freedom-loving, generally conservative folks...like the people on this board and a few others I am on. "Them" generally being the lib-tards. My point with this post is I think the deputy is "one of us"...that made a mistake...and is being railroaded for fear of starting riots.
However, I will disagree with the consequences of hitting a cop, you're gonna get your ass kicked and most likely by several of them. Milwaukee County is unbelievably liberal, and most agencies are much kinder and gentler these days. I can't speak for MCSO, but MPD is MUCH kinder & gentler (and more professional) than we were 15 years ago....a couple scandals, and cop-hating chiefs have seen to that. Hitting and MPD copper these days is likely to get you....arrested, and that's about it.
I've seen videos, I'm sure we all have, of LEOs losing it and knocking the piss out of someone. I will never fully understand their job, the stress and the BS that they have to deal with but I don't think it justifies beating on defenseless people. Again, I agree, however, handcuffed does not mean defenseless.
I've also seen others get off with a slap on the wrist who've committed much more serious offenses on video. Many, many otherwise good guys who aren't a LEO have made stupid 15 second decisions that've impacted their lives in major ways, including prison. But they have also (probably) recieved sentences much more in line with the crime.
The problem here is he's assaulting a handcuffed prisoner under color of law and we're looking at the incident, not his past. I think the 18 month deal is meant to make an "example" of him to other LEOs.But shouldn't his past make a difference?
As far as the PTSD, if he was suffering from it then he should not have been in a uniform and carrying a firearm.
Respectfully,
Irish~
I appreciate the honest responses for this thread that have come through.
And as I stated in the original post this website was just the 1st on the Google list that included the video, audio, and courtroom scene.
I'm not part of the inner city minority cop bashing scene but I do have serious concerns about LE brutality.
On this forum I know there are a lot of LEOs and military. Why won't they respond? Why won't they respond? Why won't they respond?
An LEO is responding. Although I'm a sergeant, I much prefer to think of myself as a "copper." LEO is way to stiff and formal and I think reeks of the "us VS them" thinking that was mentioned earlier.
It's maddening. If this is not the type of crime that should put a LEO away for some time then WHAT IS? Maybe he doesn't deserve it for this. BUT THEN FOR WHAT? That's a good question. I'm running scenarios around in my head right now, and I can think of quite a few; but for the sake of not making this post a mile longer, won't get into it now. I got no problem putting dirty cops away, I just don't think this is indicative of a dirty cop.
You cannot hide behind the "We put it on the line everyday" factor for every possible breach of criminal law.
What then should a LEO be punished for? Never said he shouldn't be punished for this. I just don't think he deserves the trifecta of being fired, being a convicted felon, and doing 18 months.
LE can: own guns we cannot,No we can't. To the best of my knowledge, an officer can't own anything that any "Joe Six-Pack" can't own. Agencies might issue really cool stuff, though.
have special protection under the law, as do the very old, the very young, school teachers, mentally retarded, school bus drivers.....the list goes on and on. Not saying they're all right, but without Battery to P.O. laws we'd have riots every time we tried to give a speeding ticket.
cannot be charged with crimes they commit in the course of their duties, dude, gimme a break. This deputy was convicted of a felony for a bitch-slappin.
can carry guns places we cannot Well of course we can. How do you think we could do our job if we had to check our gun at the door?
can drive on the street and do things that would get us a hefty ticket I give non-cops breaks every single day, but if I give a cop the same break I'm dirty?
have always had a bigger voice in court against citizens I've been in court many times and sat on a lot of jury trials....and I beg to differ with you, sir.
and the list can go on. For decades LE have been a very protected class of society. What other job can you commit a crime, and not be charged with it because they were doing their jobs "in good faith". A very fine line to walk but the fact of the matter is the police can commit misdemeanors while investigating a felony. Doesn't happen often and it's a HUGE deal when it does, but how else do you think the police can get cases on very bad people?
Frankly LE should be held to a higher standard because the people have given them the trust and faith to enforce the law. We are, more than what most people know. And no cops I know have any problem at all with that.
That doesn't include punching defenseless people in the face repeatedly for tapping on a window with their foot. I didn't see any defenseless people in that video. The deputy had a duty to protect county property, and it's very well established that you can use reasonable force short of deadly force to protect property. Had the deputy simply yanked dude out of the car and let him plop flat on his ass none of this would have happened.
Again if I went up to a random LEO, and hit them in the face a few times Id have hell to pay. Id get charged with a special crime only applicable for LE...."assault on a peace officer", and especially here in TX I'd have the book thrown at me.
And I'll ask the question again, specifically to those of you that think the deputy is the worst monster that ever walked the earth. I don't know what dude was arrested for, I haven't looked into it and quite frankly don't care. But if it turns out that he was arrested for some terrible crime, would it change your mind?
Would it at least change your mind from "worst monster" to "yeah, he shouldn't have done that. But dude (arrestee) sure did have it comin' to him"
I guess I've said my piece with this. I'll never condone, nor stay quiet about "police brutality," but in the great scheme of things, in the bigger picture, this ain't that.
"LE can: own guns we cannot,"No we can't. To the best of my knowledge, an officer can't own anything that any "Joe Six-Pack" can't own. Agencies might issue really cool stuff, though.
Actually, in some areas, police officers can own firearms Joe Six-Pack cannot. I believe California is one of those places... I believe a police officer can purchase a non-approved handgun. They can own 30R magazines I believe that are not grandfathered. I am not sure about owning a non-grandfathered assault weapon. But in my dealings the first two I believe are true.
Actually, in some areas, police officers can own firearms Joe Six-Pack cannot. I believe California is one of those places... I believe a police officer can purchase a non-approved handgun. They can own 30R magazines I believe that are not grandfathered. I am not sure about owning a non-grandfathered assault weapon. But in my dealings the first two I believe are true.
That is the fault of the voters, not the police. Place the blame where it belongs. :D
I appreciate the honest responses for this thread that have come through.
And as I stated in the original post this website was just the 1st on the Google list that included the video, audio, and courtroom scene.
I'm not part of the inner city minority cop bashing scene but I do have serious concerns about LE brutality.
On this forum I know there are a lot of LEOs and military. Why won't they respond? Why won't they respond? Why won't they respond?
It's maddening. If this is not the type of crime that should put a LEO away for some time then WHAT IS? Maybe he doesn't deserve it for this. BUT THEN FOR WHAT?
You cannot hide behind the "We put it on the line everyday" factor for every possible breach of criminal law.
What then should a LEO be punished for?
Freemnd, I read the rest of your response but cant seem to find it now but I totally agree with you. You are right when you say that"LEO" is way too formal and stiff and only serves to widen the "us vs them" mentality. Thats exactly the way the crook politicians want it. The "Banksters" and thieving politicians know that the American public is wising up to their lies and theft, so they try to create a rift between the people. The only "us vs them" should be between the fine citizens of this country and the lying, thieving criminals running this country.
On a different note, while I do not agree with what this officer did, I do feel that 18 mos is excessive. Maybe a 30 day suspension or loss of vacation days but a year and a half??? That is a result of the ridiculous "zero-tolerance" way of life our wonderful politicians command us ALL to live by.
18 months is steep. He shouldn't have to do time in prison. I don't know if the judge was trying to make a statement or what. A few years ago we had an officer who threw a handcuffed drunk woman on the concrete (with camera rolling). She wasn't actively resisting and he too had just lost his cool with her. Her face got busted up a little. He got fired and assault charges were filed against him. He plead out was given 5 years probation and his peace officer license was taken away. We still use his video for training for what not do.
Yes, the judge was obviously trying to make a statement. The same statement you make when you show that video for training. The statement is - DO NOT DO THIS.
And I'll ask the question again, specifically to those of you that think the deputy is the worst monster that ever walked the earth. I don't know what dude was arrested for, I haven't looked into it and quite frankly don't care. But if it turns out that he was arrested for some terrible crime, would it change your mind?
Nope, wouldn't change my mind at all. I don't think the deputy is the worst monster ever, but I also don't care if the suspect he wrongfully beat was arrested for shoplifting or for killing an entire room of kids with a flamethrower. The fact that you're even asking that question tells me that you just don't get it. It is not the arresting officer's job to punish or discipline a suspect. His job is to ensure the suspect is safely taken into custody to be handled by a court. I sure hope you don't work in LE if you don't understand that - it's pretty fundamental.
[QUOTE=BiggLee71@hotmail.com;598559]Freemnd, I read the rest of your response but cant seem to find it now but I totally agree with you. You are right when you say that"LEO" is way too formal and stiff and only serves to widen the "us vs them" mentality. Thats exactly the way the crook politicians want it. The "Banksters" and thieving politicians know that the American public is wising up to their lies and theft, so they try to create a rift between the people. The only "us vs them" should be between the fine citizens of this country and the lying, thieving criminals running this country.
I'm glad to hear your opinion BiggLee but I have to clarify something...
What you were reading in BLUE print was another person's responses to some questions I had.
Concerning the use of "LEO" and what it signifies is not part of my post here. I began using LEO more once I joined this site. One of the forums is for "LEO". I see it more among the police/cops when they are talking.
Usually I just say police or cops. I don't know what most police/cops find disrespectful so I just am following the guidelines that seem to be set up here.
As far as a small town police officer, a county sheriff, Dept. of Natural Resources, Federal Marshall, what have you, I'm talking about those individuals who made the decision to become part of the criminal justice system and wear a badge.
These police/cops did not decide to become a prosecutor or a judge. They have a job to do. What I am trying to get opinions on is whether people on this forum generally feel that what we saw in the OP video is just part of the job. Should we accept police/cops dealing out justice, punishment, life lessons during the course of their duties?
One of the posters said something about "Grand paw and if you don't listen you will feel". That may be fine as a parenting style but Law Enforcement and the State/Gov't are not our parents,
If you ask me that is the kind of attitude that really strengthens the "Us VS Them" mentality. I bet the officer who is going to jail wishes cops would police each other to keep them from breaking the law and degenating the public trust.
And I'm with you 100% on the thieving politicos, Banksters, etc. We've got serious problems in America , ones that may not be fixable, atleast not to our benefit. That's why i need the cops/police to relearn what they've learned concerning how they treat civilians.
John_Wayne777
03-12-10, 18:01
That's enough us vs. Them nonsense for tonight.
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