View Full Version : Miniature red dots on Glocks
I noticed a few posts about mounting Trijicon's RMR on MP's. I wonder if the same options exist for Glocks? Does someone make a mount that fits into the existing dovetail on the slide or do I need to have the slide machined. Also, did anyone try mounting Aimpoint H/T-1 on a Glock using their mount?
Would the electronic-less RMR be a better choise due to slide movement?
Thanks.
I noticed a few posts about mounting Trijicon's RMR on MP's. I wonder if the same options exist for Glocks? Does someone make a mount that fits into the existing dovetail on the slide or do I need to have the slide machined. Also, did anyone try mounting Aimpoint H/T-1 on a Glock using their mount?
Would the electronic-less RMR be a better choise due to slide movement?
Thanks.
Short answer, YES. There are actually more options for the Glock.
Trijicon is about to come out with mounts for the Glock and M&P. Aimpoint also has them for their Micro's.
I personally like the dual illuminated RMR (as it is virtually bullet proof). As with any of this stuff, there is a negative to everything so.
C4
Here is one of Bowie's Glocks:
http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/sitebuilder/images/glock_34_h-520x388.jpg
I just had one of my 17's milled to accept the RMR (tritium/fiber) sight. I like it a lot.
Chris
Quite the new rage in Glocks. There is a lot of threads over on Warrior Talk and Gabe is working on one along with other posters there.
A picture of mine is on WT, same nickname over there.
Chris
ETA:http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2555/photoxe.jpg (http://img651.imageshack.us/i/photoxe.jpg/)
1911sforever
03-13-10, 22:16
Short answer, YES. There are actually more options for the Glock.
Trijicon is about to come out with mounts for the Glock and M&P. Aimpoint also has them for their Micro's.
I personally like the dual illuminated RMR (as it is virtually bullet proof). As with any of this stuff, there is a negative to everything so.
C4
Grant, those mounts that Trijicon is working on...how low will they be? I'm tempted to wait for them before I have a slide milled.
Thanks,
John
Dirk Williams
03-13-10, 22:45
Anybody what is the down side to these style sights. My eyes are having a hard time picking up the front sight on my 1911 .
Can these style sights be put on a 1911,are they sturdy enough for duty use.
Thank you in advance.
D Williams.
As I noted on another thread, some of the older SWAT guys around here have used mini-RDS on their 1911's and Glocks for the last couple of years without any major problems. SWAT cop and gunsmith David Bowie has mentioned using mini-RDS for LE Tactical, Patrol, and off-duty CCW for 6 years without any issues. Note that for serious use, I believe I would only use one of the mini-red dot sights if it is milled into the slide and has an adequate BU capability (laser, iron sights, ghost ring effect) in the event of a RDS failure.
Below is one of the systems we have been using as a test bed:
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/postimages/90444-MCOperminiRDS.jpg
Grant, those mounts that Trijicon is working on...how low will they be? I'm tempted to wait for them before I have a slide milled.
Thanks,
John
They will basically put the RMR on the slide. It won't be as low as having the slide milled though.
C4
Dan Goodwin
03-14-10, 16:25
So, do the Aimpoint H/T1s work or no?
Wondering if Lone Wolf is making pre-milled slides yet...my middle-aged eyes are giving me the dickens.
Dan welcome to the club bro, had this same conversation w/ Ken Hackathorn late last year @ a class. A thread drift here but
he was shooting a Glock w/ an AmeriGlo front site that had a green trit dot w/ an orange painted circle. They are called
the Pro Glo Front, only available @ PRESENT green/green but are a cheaper alternative to a RDS for tired/aging eyes & work very well.
Thread drift over, I will also try an RMR milled on my G19 & good question re. to LW offering a slide already milled.
To everyone that sent me PM's, it is easier to reply here.
I had Mazy's in Chino Valley AZ mill my slide. The charge was $100 including shipping. Turn around was very fast. I sent in my site and stripped slide.
If you are looking for a complete LoneWolf slide. Gabe Suarez is in talks to produce one as a stand alone item. Check out the three or four threads over at WT.
It really is pretty awesome, just went and shot it again today.
Chris
Chris thx. for the detailed reply, I/we appreciate it.
So, do the Aimpoint H/T1s work or no?
Wondering if Lone Wolf is making pre-milled slides yet...my middle-aged eyes are giving me the dickens.
They would work, but to me are too heavy and large for the task.
C4
Dirk Williams
03-15-10, 11:38
Thanks for the reply. I guess the second logical question for duty carry is a holster. Is someone making a low fronted duty holster that would work.
Disregard my Blocker holster appears to have enough room without modification,I think. How long or forward do those sights go.
Im looking for as low to the slide as possible and as lite as possible what is the best bet.
It would most likely be prudent to purchase another slide already done. Just in case I didn't like it and wanted to go back to the Novak's. How much do these sights cost?
D Williams
Dirk Williams
03-15-10, 11:47
What sight is on that glock. I like the low-ness of it for balance.
That set up really is slick.
Dirk
To everyone that sent me PM's, it is easier to reply here.
I had Mazy's in Chino Valley AZ mill my slide. The charge was $100 including shipping. Turn around was very fast. I sent in my site and stripped slide.
If you are looking for a complete LoneWolf slide. Gabe Suarez is in talks to produce one as a stand alone item. Check out the three or four threads over at WT.
It really is pretty awesome, just went and shot it again today.
Chris
That's a great price for milling the slide. Did the slide need to be refinished?
I have a call into Lone Wolf's armorer to find out if they are indeed offering milled slides. A week ago the rumor was an extra $25-35 to mill a newly purchased slide.
Dan Goodwin
03-15-10, 16:55
Grant,
What is the weight on the Insight or Trijicon unit? and how much smaller? Have a T1, but have yet to see either of the other in real life.
I would be very interested in a milled Lone Wolf slide, the problem would be which Glock to have one made for: a 23/19 would be more carry friendly, but I kinda like the idea of a RDS on a G35 with a .357 LW bbl in it...
Grant,
What is the weight on the Insight or Trijicon unit? and how much smaller? Have a T1, but have yet to see either of the other in real life.
I would be very interested in a milled Lone Wolf slide, the problem would be which Glock to have one made for: a 23/19 would be more carry friendly, but I kinda like the idea of a RDS on a G35 with a .357 LW bbl in it...
The RMR Dual is just a hair over 1 ounce. a T-1 (no mount is right around 4 ounces.
C4
That's a great price for milling the slide. Did the slide need to be refinished?
I have a call into Lone Wolf's armorer to find out if they are indeed offering milled slides. A week ago the rumor was an extra $25-35 to mill a newly purchased slide.
It wasn't refinished. I live in AZ so I'm not terribly worried about it. i would think a light coat of alumablack or similar would be sufficient.
Chris
Dan Goodwin
03-16-10, 20:51
Thank you, Grant. That is mighty light.
Can you or someone else discuss merits of the battery vs. the light powered unit?
I, for one, have reached the point I hit much better with a RDS or laser than with irons.
Think that a 4 MOA RMR on a 5- to 6-in. Glock .357 would make hitting very easy to 150 yards or beyond; kind of a stockless VSBR. Or maybe a long snouted 9x25 Dillon for a bit extra zoot?
KalashniKEV
03-17-10, 07:55
Are there any purpose-built MRDS yet that have a channel milled down the middle?
It seems like a no-brainer as far as BUIS capability to attach a tall/suppressor front sight and be able to pick up approximately the same sight picture at the same height...
KalashniKEV
03-17-10, 07:58
I just answered my own question...
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/6731/mp9mm009.jpg
Thank you, Grant. That is mighty light.
Can you or someone else discuss merits of the battery vs. the light powered unit?
I, for one, have reached the point I hit much better with a RDS or laser than with irons.
Think that a 4 MOA RMR on a 5- to 6-in. Glock .357 would make hitting very easy to 150 yards or beyond; kind of a stockless VSBR. Or maybe a long snouted 9x25 Dillon for a bit extra zoot?
Downsides to battery powered optic:
1. Have to change the batteries (keep spare with you).
2. Much greater chance of failing.
Downsides to light/Tritium powered optic:
1. Dot can wash out in certain situations.
2. Dot size can be too big for some (smallest one made is 7MOA).
C4
EzGoingKev
03-31-10, 20:00
American Handgunner did a "puff piece" about them this month.
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B4F3ZK93qxozNjMzNDhhMjMtYWNiZi00ZGYyLTlkNTgtZDJkZDcwYjFlOWY0&hl=en
They give out free digital subscriptions to anyone that signs up for them so I don't think there would be an issue with sharing it.
any true speed advantage inside of 21 feet?
do they hurt reliability at all by adding mass to teh slide?
anybody in colorado have one they'll let me try? :D
Gabe Suarez
04-05-10, 14:35
OK...I have about 5K through mine with no issues at all. Inside of 21 feet you do not need any sights at all unless you are shooting a precise point target like an eyeball, or a part of a bad guy's body exposed from behind cover. When you need sights, these smoke irons any day of the week.
Take a look at this sight picture. What do you think of that!!??:D
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/images/products/detail/IMG_1143.jpg
Gabe Suarez
04-05-10, 14:36
Another look from different angles
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/images/products/detail/IMG_1141.jpg
Gabe Suarez
04-05-10, 14:38
Kinda blows away the "I don't like them and won't use them because they do not have back up iron sights" arguement don't they ;););)
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/images/products/detail/IMG_1146.jpg
Kinda blows away the "I don't like them and won't use them because they do not have back up iron sights" arguement don't they ;););)
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/images/products/detail/IMG_1146.jpg
I have been on board W a B.O.H.U.S. (both eyes open Heads Up Sight System) for a very long time.;)
I have a few ? though if you don't mind?
How does it conceal in Jeans and a T-shirt?
Is there a good no battery micro dot sight option?
Can I change battery's W/O re-sighting or resetting anything?
What would it cost to set up one of my CCW's W a no BATT option as there's 2-3 besides my G23 I might want to get done? :D
N.D.
Gabe Suarez
04-05-10, 16:28
To answer -
1). How does it conceal in Jeans and a T-shirt?
I am 5'10", 185. I carry appendix inside waistband 24/7/365. I have no problems hiding this at all and have recently been in some "non-permissive environments" with this very unit on.
2). Is there a good no battery micro dot sight option?
Trijicon makes a dual-illuminated version that uses tritium and fiber optics.
3). Can I change battery's W/O re-sighting or resetting anything?
I have had my unit on and off several times in testing and as long as your installation is right you will have no issues at all and return to zero. In truth, you should not need to change the sights more than once a year.
4). What would it cost to set up one of my CCW's W a no BATT option as there's 2-3 besides my G23 I might want to get done? :D
Well...I'd love to be able to tell you and provide links but I am afraid that would probably lead to me being banned since I have not heard back about paying for adspace here yet from the mods. Once they accept my $$$ I would be happy to tell you bro.
I would be interested in a compare and contrast vs the use of the Burris Fastfire. Not in comparing quality and performance. These premium MRDS are surely far superior. But in application.
I ask because I experimented 18 mos ago with a Fastfire on a G19 and found it downright poor for rapid acquistion of the dot ON target in dynamic drills. Now once on - with dot visible on target it was pretty fast. Really slick down a rack of plates. But a LOT of new muscle memory training appeared to be needed for pick up the dot as fast as a front sight.
Perhaps the very tall front sight will help with this. I did not have such.
On another LEO/Mil board I've seen this discussed and some experienced this issue as well.
Are these premium models' dots more easily picked up for the initial hit on 1st target than the Burris?
Thank you very much for the info! :D
To answer -
1). How does it conceal in Jeans and a T-shirt?
I am 5'10", 185. I carry appendix inside waistband 24/7/365. I have no problems hiding this at all and have recently been in some "non-permissive environments" with this very unit on.
2). Is there a good no battery micro dot sight option?
Trijicon makes a dual-illuminated version that uses tritium and fiber optics.
3). Can I change battery's W/O re-sighting or resetting anything?
I have had my unit on and off several times in testing and as long as your installation is right you will have no issues at all and return to zero. In truth, you should not need to change the sights more than once a year.
4). What would it cost to set up one of my CCW's W a no BATT option as there's 2-3 besides my G23 I might want to get done? :D
Well...I'd love to be able to tell you and provide links but I am afraid that would probably lead to me being banned since I have not heard back about paying for adspace here yet from the mods. Once they accept my $$$ I would be happy to tell you bro.
N.D.
NCPatrolAR
04-06-10, 22:00
Looks like this setup would prevent you from using any holster that featured an ALS system.
Mr. Suarez beat me to that one - the OneSourceTactical options through his site are the most attractive glock slides I've seen - especially completed with the LoneWolf slide/barrel packages.
The JPoint, Trijicon, and MRDS are the ones I'm looking at for an M&P, but I'm also curious how the TNVC RDP-II would fare.
Again, as Grant points out, having to replace batteries on a rear slide mounting would be a nuisance, but relying on an on/off switch is no-go for CCW.
Jpoint for using stock sights, otherwise the Trijicon paired with suppressor height sights is the winner, as seen from Gabe's cowitness pic.
As far as retention, I think I'd be adequately comfortable with a weaponlight mounted holster from RCS or the Peters Spada - the latter would need less modification because of the reduced cant.
ALS would be right out - would probably have to alter the geometry of the ALS to go over and around, OR maybe a modified retention strap and moving the attach points for it forward... right out. Trigger guard retention might work better, though SERPAs would still need significant modification.
I have a Trijicon MRD on mine and to say changing out the battery is a hastle or inconvenience is a bit of a stretch. It takes me about 1 to 1 1/2 minutes every 11 months (have gone longer between changes but I want to be sure it doesn't go dead). It always holds zero when remounting. I am about to have a .50 GI slide milled for my Glock conversion to hold a duel illumination RMR. I will then be able to let you know how the two compare.
As far as ALS holsters goes mine needed slight modification and it works just fine with the Trijicon MRD. I would imagine the RMR will work as well with the same modification.
MadDog
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2269/mp9mm011.jpg
NCPatrolAR
04-07-10, 13:47
Does anyone have pics of the different reticles and how they appear when mounted on the gun?
NCPatrolAR
04-07-10, 13:48
I have a Trijicon MRD on mine and to say changing out the battery is a hastle or inconvenience is a bit of a stretch. It takes me about 1 to 1 1/2 minutes every 11 months (have gone longer between changes but I want to be sure it doesn't go dead). It always holds zero when remounting. I am about to have a .50 GI slide milled for my Glock conversion to hold a duel illumination RMR. I will then be able to let you know how the two compare.
As far as ALS holsters goes mine needed slight modification and it works just fine with the Trijicon MRD. I would imagine the RMR will work as well with the same modification.
MadDog
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/2269/mp9mm011.jpg
Just taking a SWAG, but it looks like you wouldn't have much of an issue with the ALS because your optic sits further to the rear than the guns that have the RDS/iron sight set up.
No it would be the same. I relieved the area of my holster where the MRD resides a little too much. If my MRD sat "in front" of the rear sight this holster would have plenty of room and still work well.
MadDog
NCPatrolAR
04-07-10, 15:30
No it would be the same. I relieved the area of my holster where the MRD resides a little too much. If my MRD sat "in front" of the rear sight this holster would have plenty of room and still work well.
MadDog
Looking at the wear marks on my duty gun; it looks like there wouldnt be enough room if the sight was in front of the irons. How big is the optic?
Also; where is the retention screw on the front of the holster for the ALS system?
As far as I know there are very few duty rigs that will work with "any" MRD without some sort of modification. All of my CCW holsters were good to go but the two Safarilands I have needed radical modification but only took about an hour to perform.
MadDog
Gabe Suarez
04-08-10, 18:59
Mad Dog,
Dude...why didn't I think of that! I have my old (too old :() SWAT rig and I will now have to cut down the sight area to accomodate it. Great idea. I do think that as the MRDS concept becomes accepted in the pistol world, you will see more and more holsters designed with it in mind.
I had Dale Fricke redesign the Archangel Appendix Holster for the MRDS. I have been CCWing this for a month now with no issues. I will bet a Duty rig could be made in the same way.
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/images/products/detail/IMG_1154.jpg
Gabe Suarez
04-08-10, 19:00
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/images/products/detail/IMG_1157.jpg
With the new generation of mini-optics this is all terrifically compelling, however...
Where CC use is concerned has anyone considered the issues posed by inclement weather? I'd like to try a setup like this but, given my very first response to precipitation on my rifles is to hit the quick release on the optics, it seems prudent to only carry something like this on nice days. Also, if one were to be carrying in the cold for a length of time and then need to use the weapon in a warm building there would be a significant risk of condensation.
Bloth the Insight MRD and Trijicon RMR are waterproof to about 66 feet so getting them wet or even submerging them is not a problem. I have played with my Insight and Trijicon out in the snow and gone into a hot indoor range and there has been no fogging especially if you use any kind of anti-fog clearner on the lense.
For me that is a non issue.
MadDog :rolleyes:
Bloth the Insight MRD and Trijicon RMR are waterproof to about 66 feet so getting them wet or even submerging them is not a problem.
Water resistance is not the issue I am concerned about. Have you ever shot it in the rain? If so how did you handle that the view through the optic was obscured by water droplets? Did you find that you had to revert to a Bindon aiming mode or more of a pointing mode? Any training I've been to where it rained everyone present always wound up dumping their optics.
I have played with my Insight and Trijicon out in the snow and gone into a hot indoor range and there has been no fogging especially if you use any kind of anti-fog clearner on the lense.
For me that is a non issue.
MadDog :rolleyes:
I also use an anti-fog product on my rifle optics. It is not fool-proof and it requires regular reapplication. Additional complexity usually begets additional maintenance so this is unsurprising I suppose.
Yes I have shot with my Insight Tech mounted on a pistol in the rain and water droplets were not an issue. For the most part the water ran off the lense and with the first recoil impulse, big drops do not stay on the lense. A little water was not enough to obstruct or distort the dot. Pretty much the same as mounted on a rifle. If you want fool proof stick with irons. I for one, think MRD's on pistols are a vast improvement, and with the new technoloy and better made optics on the market, their time has come. You would be hard pressed to find many that do not think a good optic (magnified or non-magnified) is an improvement on a battle rifle. I believe the same holds true for the modern pistol.
MadDog
If it was "pretty much the same as mounted on a rifle" then what I have seen is that it would not work nearly as well as irons under those conditions, although maybe it rains more and more heavily in my neck of the woods!
The recoil of an AR pattern weapon is pretty mild. Perhaps the reciprocation of the slide does more to throw off water? But that would not help until the first round was fired.
Obviously you believe inclement weather not to be an issue. I will continue to be skeptical in that area. Nevertheless the state of the art does seem to be otherwise ready for the real world and no longer limited to competition, certainly on fair weather days.
MRD's on pistols will never be for "everyone". I guess you should stick to open sights.
Enjoy,
MadDog ;)
Gabe Suarez
04-12-10, 11:47
MRD's on pistols will never be for "everyone". I guess you should stick to open sights.
That's what I said! I recall when Glocks first came out in the early 1990s how much hay the 1911 crowd at a certain school tried to make about them being made of plastic, and breaking and how John Wayne would never carry Tupperware. I also recall how certain "gun gurus" of the day would call the 5.56 a "poodle shooter" and others laughing at any sort of red dot sight on anything as "gamesman gear".
Flash forward to 2010 and what do almost all the cops in the USA carry? Plastic guns...mostly made in Europe. What do we see in class? 90% Glocks. What do our warriors use in the middle east? Not scout rifles, but "poodle shooters with gamesman sights".:eek:
All of my GOTO rifles have red dot sights, and while I do not use a 5.56, I do use a commie rifle with commie ammo and red dot sights. Horrors!
The red dot sights on pistols is in its infancy. The first guy that did it was Kelly McCann with a Docter sight on his Glock 19. I spoke with him on email recently and he has been using this set up in lots of places around the world with no problems at all. The Trijicon is far stronger than the Docter so I would expect even better results. By 2020, we will be seeing red dot sights on pistols out of the factory and irons will be seen as either back ups or "the sights those old guys used to use".
But I will bet "you know who" will probably break one soon by drawing it from a holster.:rolleyes:
OK...I have about 5K through mine with no issues at all. Inside of 21 feet you do not need any sights at all unless you are shooting a precise point target like an eyeball, or a part of a bad guy's body exposed from behind cover. When you need sights, these smoke irons any day of the week.
Take a look at this sight picture. What do you think of that!!??:D
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/images/products/detail/IMG_1143.jpg
That is a beautiful co - witnessed sight picture, thanks for sharing W us!
I think I would like 1 set up W the bullets poi right on the top edge of the Dot. :D
Gabe Suarez
04-12-10, 19:12
I am better at shooting than photography. I could not get everything focused right. Basically I get thge same exact sight picture as I see on an AK with an AImpoint cowitnessed.
That's one incredibly "clean" red dot. I'm thinking of trying on as a primary optic on a carbine to go light.
Thanks
Hello everyone looks like I am going to bite the bullet on the red dot for my Glock 17. This is my home defence and travel weapon. Well I found the JP 8mm dot at Shooters Connection for $299.00 and the mount for the Glock handgun for $39.00. I will try this setup first, then milll the slide at a later date and maybe get a higher front sight for co witness.
According to JP and Suarez the rear grove is not meant to be used as a rear sight, but I am going to try anyway.
If this setup works well I may get the RMR dual dot for my Carry Glock 23 for duty.
We will see.
Cheers. \\
"TWO IS ONE AND ONE IS NONE"
imua: The rear notch on my Trijicon/Jpoint lines up perfectly with my stock front sight on my M&P9. POI is the same as POA at 12 yards which was about the same as it was with the stock rear sight.
MadDog ;)
Nice, well after I get some extra money I will either purchase a LW slide milled or have my Glock slide milled. MaDdog thanks for the info.
I comm'd w/ LW several weeks back as I needed a new slide for my Gen 1 G19.
Was told to send my MRD to them & they would then mill the slide to fit it.
Doc Roberts has convinced me to go w/ an 7/8 MOA, now the only question is which MRD, the Trij. RMR or the Insight MRDS.
I had the Trijicon MRD in 4 moa and found the dot a little small. I sold it and got an 8moa but they are hard to find as Trij stopped making them when the RMR came out. My tired old eyes (55) pick up the 8moa dot much faster then the 4 and about 10 times faster then I can get a good sight picture with just open sights. The 8moa is perfect IMHO for anything 25 yards and under. This is not a precission target pistol and if the threat is farther then 25 yards I most likely would have the time to get the hell out of there. I have 2 Insight Technology MRD's on other guns and would definitely get that over the Trijicon MRD. The insight is much more rugged, has 4 intensity settings including auto, the battery loads from the top and the windage and elevation adjustments are 1/2 moa positive click adjusters (not those stupid friction adjusters). The only thing the Insight does not have is a rear sight notch.
MadDog :p
After reading this thread and a couple others, I decided to take this one on for another project to toy around with. This will not be for duty or off duty, just something to toy with, for now. So at first I thought about using my G34, but decided I like it right where I have it, so I picked up a Gen4 G17 to muck around with.
Thanks fellas. I needed another project like I need another hole in my head. ;)
Hey can we get a mod to get rid of this dude? He's posting these spam things about shoes all over the place
NCPatrolAR
04-14-10, 14:50
Hey can we get a mod to get rid of this dude? He's posting these spam things about shoes all over the place
Already taken care of.
Remember, when you see spam posts such as those; please immediately hit the report button. That will alert us so we can take care of it. I just happened to see it while looking through this thread
Roger, sorry about that. Too much youtube today turned my brain to mush:D
Thinking about ordering the whole slide with the MRD as advertised through the Suarez email I got, itll happen sometime after I get the other $5k for projects that I gotta miracle to my account by next month.
Kinda blows away the "I don't like them and won't use them because they do not have back up iron sights" arguement don't they ;););)
http://www.onesourcetactical.com/images/products/detail/IMG_1146.jpg
That's a beautiful set-up, Gabe.
So nice, in fact, it's making me consider purchasing a Glock. :D
montanadave
04-19-10, 22:21
I want to mount a red dot on a FNP-45 Tactical. Will both the Trijicon RMR and the Insight MRDS fit the factory milled slide? Assuming I was going to purchase a battery unit with illuminated LED, is there any compelling reason to choose one over the other (aside from Insight offering the sight in tan which would match with the dark earth finish on the pistol).
Yes, both the Trijicon RMR and Insight MRDS will fit the FNP45 Tactical with the provided adapters. I have both the RMR and Insight MRDS and favor the Insight. The RMR is the most rugged of the two however I like the four intensity settings of the Insight along with it's nigthg vision setting. They are both waterproof to the same depth and both say they will handle the same amount of G's. The Insight also has an aluminum protective hood as an option (think mini EOTech) that makes it totally bomb-proof which also comes in FDE color. The Insight and protective hood both in FDE would be bad ass. I have an FNP45 Tactical on order so you can guess how mine is going to be set up.
MadDog :p
Yes, both the Trijicon RMR and Insight MRDS will fit the FNP45 Tactical with the provided adapters. I have both the RMR and Insight MRDS and favor the Insight. The RMR is the most rugged of the two however I like the four intensity settings of the Insight along with it's nigthg vision setting. They are both waterproof to the same depth and both say they will handle the same amount of G's. The Insight also has an aluminum protective hood as an option (think mini EOTech) that makes it totally bomb-proof which also comes in FDE color. The Insight and protective hood both in FDE would be bad ass. I have an FNP45 Tactical on order so you can guess how mine is going to be set up.
MadDog :p
Is there any significant difference in size between the two?
JohnN: The Trijicon RMR is slightly wider and taller than the Insight MRDS but the length is the same.
Just got word from my local shop that my new FNP45-Tactical should be in on Monday.
MadDog :p
montanadave
04-20-10, 18:26
JohnN: The Trijicon RMR is slightly wider and taller than the Insight MRDS but the length is the same.
Just got word from my local shop that my new FNP45-Tactical should be in on Monday.
MadDog :p
Does the reduced sight picture of the Insight interfere with co-witnessing the iron sights on the FNP-45 Tactical? And any suggestions on venders for the tan Insight MRDS with shroud?
Congrats on your new purchase. Mine should be here next week as well. :D
There is no reduced window height or size reduction of the Insight MRDS compared to the RMR. The outer width and height dims of the RMR are larger but the window itself is about the same size and sits at the same height.
I purchased all of my Insight MRDS's in FDE color on line from Cheaper Than Dirt. The protective hood can only be purchased (as far as I know) directly from Insight Tech.
MadDog :cool:
montanadave
04-20-10, 18:44
There is no reduced window height or size reduction of the Insight MRDS compared to the RMR. The outer width and height dims of the RMR are larger but the window itself is about the same size and sits at the same height.
I purchased all of my Insight MRDS's in FDE color on line from Cheaper Than Dirt. The protective hood can only be purchased (as far as I know) directly from Insight Tech.
MadDog :cool:
Thanks for the head's up. Now to go count up my change jar as the pistol about tapped me out.
Looks just like an IPSC/USPSA race gun. In fact, almost all guns are IPSC race guns.
Picking up my FN-45 Tactical today and should be able to post some pic's soon with the Insight MRDS mounted. Will also do a side by side comparison with my M&P9 Trijicon MRD set-up.
Picking up my FN-45 Tactical today and should be able to post some pic's soon with the Insight MRDS mounted. Will also do a side by side comparison with my M&P9 Trijicon MRD set-up.Nice, keep us posted. I am really interested in the Insight MRDS.
Yesterday I saw the new FNP-45 "Tactical" with the mini red dot, and thought "what?...". I have seen people doing this to their competition guns and what not, but on a military pistol?
My question is: Does this really make you faster/more accurate?
A red dot on a rifle and a red dot on a pistol to me seem like different things. For one, a rifle has a much longer sight radius, not to mention pistol sights have high viability "dots". I've read its easy to loose sight of the red dot. Is this true?
Is this:
http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/ss10/huge/P1030765.jpg
Any faster than this:
http://home.comcast.net/~petej/prod.45gap.pics/sight.picture.jpg
It just isn't clicking with me.
I see your point, MG, but I would have to think that with a bit of practice it certainly has the potential to be both faster and more accurate. I'm thinking only of the attention that must normally be paid - minimal though it may be - to keeping the sight picture of the iron sights properly aligned. With the red dot sight, whatever the dot is superimposed over, anywhere within the window, that's the direction the bullet is headed.
A number of years ago, I was running a frame mounted red dot on an open class IPSC gun. The red dot is dramatically faster and much more accurate at range than irons ever could be. In fact, it is probably a bigger difference with a handgun than a rifle due to the difference in sight radius.
Having it mounted on a reciprocating slide may take some practice to track, but the advantage in accuracy should be instant. My two cents.....
A couple of good points have been brought up that I have also thought about. The dot on the moving slide and the speed of acquiring a dot on a handgun as opposed to that of a more repeatable cheekweld position on a rifle. I do have a high draw stroke and I am told this helps with speed in acquiring the dot as the punch out happens.
Because I need to try this out for myself, I am planning to first try a red dot with a rear sight mounting base. If I do like it I will look into milling a slide and going that route. Should be a fun project and if I don't like the red dot and pistol thing, I can always use the mini red dot on another weapon. :)
The main difference is that the red dot of this type is parallax free. This means that unlike fixed sights and standard scopes, the red dot does not have to be carefully centered in the window or anywhere else. With standard fixed sights, you line three things up; the target, front sight and rear sight. With a typical scope, in order for it to be accurate and hit where you're aiming, you must make sure your eye is properly centered and you have proper distance behind the eye piece.
I've used a mini red dot on a Ruger MKIII .22 and a S&W 629 .44 mag. MUCH faster acquisition, no worry about alignment or having good enough vision to focus on the front sight. I need reading glasses to see front sights clearly. Obviously, this is less than practical for a defensive weapon.
With a mini red dot, as long as the red dot is on the target, pull the trigger and you will hit the target. Try it, you'll like it.
MGLincoln: I wear glasses that have progressive lenses (3 prescriptions). I can't use open sights on a pistol with both eyes open. I have to close one eye which means I have to bob my head up and down to get the sweet spot in my glasses lined up to get a good sight picture. That takes way too long. With an MRD I sight with both eyes open and it doesn't make a difference where I look through my glasses. Sight picture with MRD's for me is instantanious.
Surf: Even though the window size and height on the Insight MRDS is the same as the Trijicon RMR, the body of the Insight is taller and therefore the open sights of the FN-Tactical are "almost" completely obscured. They are still usable but not nearly as good as good when using the RMR. The RMR does not obstruct the open sights in any way. That said I am going to still use the Insight as I like it better then the RMR. The footprint of the Insight completely fill the milled out portion of the slide where the RMR doesn't so it looks better (like it should be on the slide. The RMR looks like an add-on), the FDE color looks better then black, and the different intensity settings are a plus also.
For those of you who say you loose the red dot on recoil, it is a non issue. As soon as the slide goes into battery your eye picks the dot up again. I don't know of anyone who can track an open sight while the slide is under recoil unless your pistol has ZERO muzzle rise. When your muzzle comes back on target and your slide is in battery is when your eyes pick up the front sight again. Why would it be any different with an MRD?
JMHO,
MadDog :cool:
Thanks MadDog. I really do like the profile and looks of the Insight also and I can get em at a good price. Quite frankly, the clunky squared off RMR looks like ass mounted on the pistols in comparison to others posted. However function is more important so these are some of the answers that I am looking for.
As for the red dot, I am more concerned about picking up the dot on the presentation as opposed to the slide. I am putting it on a bb gun after all (G17). :p
I do not have much experience with dots on pistols, but I do have a Doc Optic that was once mounted on top of my ACOG. I used to find that I was slow with this type of mount option as I often found myself fishing for the dot because of a lack of consistent cheek weld. I am just wondering how this will be in relation to a pistol. I am pretty sure it is quicker or it wouldn't be run so successfully on open pistols, but it is still in the back of my mind. Regardless I am pretty sure with practice it will be a very good thing or I wouldn't be attempting it. ;)
Again thanks for the info and I look forward to seeing your new set up. :)
My cheap camera went tits-up so I only have 4 pictures which are shitty to boot. You can see the size difference between the Trijicon MRD and the Insight MRDS. The Insight is much faster when it comes to picking up the dot.
MadDog :p
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/1614/fnp45tactical002.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3908/fnp45tactical001.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3457/fnp45tactical003.jpg
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/22/fnp45tactical004.jpg
Looks real nice!
Nice size comparison seeing both in one pic. How is the clearance on that rear sight? Looks pretty tight?
montanadave
04-24-10, 17:25
Thanks for the pics, MadDog. Just picked up my FNP-45 Tactical thirty minutes ago and the Insight MRDS showed up when I got home. That's the exact setup I'm going to try out. Looks great.
Now I gotta go get mine rigged up. :D
Surf: the clearance of the Insight MRDS is very tight. The open sights are obscured by the optic and when you line up the top of the front and rear sights you get a 6:00 hold. Since I am not using mine for CCW and only 3-gun matches I really don't care about co-witnessing the open sights with the red-dot. If you use a Docter or RMR red-dot you will co-witness perfectly. I also leave the MRDS on 24/7 but if you want to change the brightness setting or turn it off you need to take an allen wrench or punch that is small enough to fit in the rear sight notch and push the optic power button.
MadDog;)
Thanks, that's good to know. Decisions, decisions. :)
If you are thinking of using Insight Technologies MRDS on an FNP45 Tactical, you may want to re-think your decission. I just ran about 400 rounds (three different types of FMJ and JHP) through mine and after the session I noticed I have a bunch of scratches in the lense. I never checked the optic after my other sessions so I am not sure when they occured and when shooting I don't notice them but the situation can only get worse not better. The Insight MRDS sits "much" higher and closer to the ejection port then the Docter and Trijicon RMR. The lense of the Insight is plastic and their hard coating is not hard enough to resist scratches or nicks from brass.
I talked to the tech guys at Trijicon and they tell me the lense of their RMR is tempered glass with an additional hard coating. The Insight looks much better, and even though I think the RMR looks like crap in comparison to the Insight, I am more about function than form. The RMR also sits much lower and will co-witness with the tall FNP45 Tactical sights. Needless to say I ordered an RMR with the duel illumination system which needs no batteries.
MadDog
montanadave
04-30-10, 00:20
If you are thinking of using Insight Technologies MRDS on an FNP45 Tactical, you may want to re-think your decission. I just ran about 400 rounds (three different types of FMJ and JHP) through mine and after the session I noticed I have a bunch of scratches in the lense. I never checked the optic after my other sessions so I am not sure when they occured and when shooting I don't notice them but the situation can only get worse not better. The Insight MRDS sits "much" higher and closer to the ejection port then the Docter and Trijicon RMR. The lense of the Insight is plastic and their hard coating is not hard enough to resist scratches or nicks from brass.
I talked to the tech guys at Trijicon and they tell me the lense of their RMR is tempered glass with an additional hard coating. The Insight looks much better, and even though I think the RMR looks like crap in comparison to the Insight, I am more about function than form. The RMR also sits much lower and will co-witness with the tall FNP45 Tactical sights. Needless to say I ordered an RMR with the duel illumination system which needs no batteries.
MadDog
I'm less than satisfied with the Insight MRDS as well (and Cheaper Than Dirt has a "no returns" policy on optics). Now I'm stuck with a $500 red dot I really don't have a use for (maybe I'll get a slide milled and put it on my Glock 30) and I'm looking at laying out another $500 (give or take) for a Trijicon RMR.
Shouldn't have been so damn impatient and waited. Had I held off a week or so and seen these most recent posts, I'd be feeling a little more flush than I am right now. Sucks being a beta tester.
Montana: I am a little luckier as I took the Insight off my Five-seveN to try it out and it will go back on the same pistol so no money lost. I still like the Insight for other guns (works GREAT on my Remmy 870 12ga) just not the FNP. I just ordered the duel illumination 7moa RMR from SWFA for $399.99 (before shipping) so I am sure you can get the electronic RMR for a good price there as well. They say they will beat any advertised price so you might want to give them a call.
MadDog :p
montanadave
04-30-10, 09:05
Just curious, MadDog--Why did you go with the dual-illumination RMR over the LED model? I'm on the fence. Not worrying about batteries is a plus and, from what little I've read, the dual-illumination model is supposed to be a little more rugged (the internal electronics of the LED model making it more susceptible to failure). On the other hand, the LED model most likely provides a brighter dot, is self-adjusting for light conditions and doesn't have a shelf life like the dual-illumination model. I don't know how long tritium sights last, but they are going to dim and eventually peter out at some point (five years?).
Other than the price difference, what was the principal factor in your selection decision? Is there something I'm failing to take into account here? I've made enough costly mistakes for this week.
The tritium modules in Trijicon's products lasts 15 years before needing to be changed which they will do for free so there are no worries there. The duel illumination RMR has no electronics to give you problems like if you don't put some sort of padded buffer between the battery and body of the slide, the battery can drop slightly in effect turning your optic off. Someone posted this problem with their new RMR mounted on their new FNP45 Tactical. Even though the batteries last a looong time you still have to take the optic off to change the battery. With the duel just mount it and forget about it.
The most important reason for me is that I wear prescription glasses and my prescription distorts electronic dots. I have 5 Aimpoints and 1 Trijicon electronic MRD and my prescription makes the dots very fuzzy at every intensity setting. The clarity of the Trijicon MRD is better then the Aimpoints but fuzzy none the less. I love my Aimpoints (2 Micro T1's, 1 Micro H1, and 2 M3's) but fuzzy dots can be a pain in the ass. I also have 4 Trijicons (2 TA31f ACOG's, 1 RX30, and 1 Reflex II) and all of the dots and chevrons are clear, sharp, and crisp even with my prescription. I have no reason to think the dot on the duel RMR will be any different.
MadDog :D
montanadave
04-30-10, 10:37
The tritium modules in Trijicon's products lasts 15 years before needing to be changed which they will do for free so there are no worries there. The duel illumination RMR has no electronics to give you problems like if you don't put some sort of padded buffer between the battery and body of the slide, the battery can drop slightly in effect turning your optic off. Someone posted this problem with their new RMR mounted on their new FNP45 Tactical. Even though the batteries last a looong time you still have to take the optic off to change the battery. With the duel just mount it and forget about it.
The most important reason for me is that I wear prescription glasses and my prescription distorts electronic dots. I have 5 Aimpoints and my prescription makes the dots very fuzzy at every intensity setting. I love my Aimpoints (2 Micro T1's, 1 Micro H1, and 2 M3's) but fuzzy dots can be a pain in the ass. I also have 4 Trijicons (2 TA31f ACOG's, 1 RX30, and 1 Refles II) and all of the dots and chevrons are clear, sharp, and crisp even with my prescription. I have no reason to think the dot on the duel RMR will be any different.
MadDog :D
I appreciate the information. Thanks
For those interested, we have Trijicon RMR's in stock (7MOA Dual and 4MOA LED's). We also offer member pricing on them. ;)
C4
Deleted: pointless - Beat to the punch again!
So is there a way to mount my RMR to the dovetail in my Glock?
I want to try the dot before sending in my upper for milling.
Do I just order the RedDot mount for the Glock and then an RMR adapter for the RedDot mount?
Want to be sure before I order it.
Thanks
Been doing a lot of research on the mini reflex's on Glocks this week and came across this thread.
I just wanted to verify those are simply Ameriglo tall suppressor sights on Suarez's slide in the pics on pg. 2 correct?
One-
Correct those are the taller Ameriglo suppressor sights in the pics Gabe posted.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.