View Full Version : Do You CCW w/Weaponlight at the Ready?
How many of you, or should I say do you CCW with a weaponlight already attached to your sidearm on a daily basis? Talking realistically here, whenever wherever you go about. I should but don't--yet! :o
For occasional night use a hand-held light like an SF L4 or G2L works fine, but since it is very easy to run an X300 on G19/17's and M&P's using the Raven Concealment Phantom holster, why would someone NOT want to use a light if they mainly work/carry at night?
adrenaline151
03-13-10, 18:10
I do. I carry a Sig P229 w/ TLR-1 attached 24/7. I keep it in a Raven Phantom LC, OWB and other than being a little heavy, it's good to go. The Phantom is awesome at distributing the weight, I wouldn't want to carry this setup, or even the bare 229 in a leather IWB(what I used to carry an XD in). I carry everyday, and generally, my rig is never more than an arms length away. I have a problem losing flashlights, especially expensive ones, so this works great for me. I just wish I had more opportunity to do night-time training with the light. Not much of that available where I am.
cougar_guy04
03-13-10, 18:16
Ever since I received my Phantom LC, I haven't carried my G19 without the X300 attached (My MTAC stays in the drawer anymore). Only time I don't have a light attached is when I've got the J-Frame.
I carry a weapon light attached while on duty but I do not carry one when off duty. I only feel comfortable carrying IWB so I wouldn't do well with a light attached. I like the Raven holsters and I want to check them out. If I do get a Raven holster it will be one for a weapon light. I was leaning toward a TLR 1.
I have in the past, but do not do so often. I may be moving a Phantom w/ light from my battle belt back to IWB though and at least using the light attached when I know I'll be out at night.
On duty yes, with TLR-1 in Raven Phantom. Off duty I remove the light and carry in a Raven ACR.
airwayguru
03-13-10, 19:11
I carry my XD M with a X300 attached all the time in my Maxpedition Fatboy. I have no problems drawing my weapon.
Alpha Sierra
03-13-10, 20:58
No.
I find it exceedingly hard to conceive of a scenario where I, as a regular citizen carrying a handgun exclusively for my self-defense, would be in a position where a hand held or pistol-mounted light is going to be essential to figure out what is going on or who needs to get shot.
Ga Shooter
03-13-10, 21:00
I am thinking about doing this as well. A question for those who do; on the Raven holsters will it retain the weapon even if the light is not on it for some reason or do you always have to have the light attached?
Jay Cunningham
03-13-10, 21:12
I do not carry with a weaponlight attached. I mount the weaponlight when it goes in the nightstand.
I am carrying concealed for a reason, and I prefer to minimize my profile and maximize my comfort.
IMO having a small hand-held light like an E1B is preferable to a weaponlight. I know some people will say "have both" but at some point you need to make a decision as to what constitutes "reasonable" in the circumstance of EDC.
NCPatrolAR
03-13-10, 21:27
I sometimes conceal a M&P with a X300 away from work and have concealed a M&P40 w/ Insight Procyon (now WX-150) multiple times while doing UC work.
CaptainDooley
03-13-10, 21:38
I do not carry with a weaponlight attached. I mount the weaponlight when it goes in the nightstand.
I am carrying concealed for a reason, and I prefer to minimize my profile and maximize my comfort.
IMO having a small hand-held light like an E1B is preferable to a weaponlight. I know some people will say "have both" but at some point you need to make a decision as to what constitutes "reasonable" in the circumstance of EDC.
Not having one I honestly don't know - is it much of a process to get one on and off every night/morning?
I'm thinking about getting one, but if I end up not carrying it on there, I would want to at least be able to use it in this capacity.
No.
I find it exceedingly hard to conceive of a scenario where I, as a regular citizen carrying a handgun exclusively for my self-defense, would be in a position where a hand held or pistol-mounted light is going to be essential to figure out what is going on or who needs to get shot.
Given how much violence happens at night, at dusk, or just in dark corners of the world, I think it's fairly prudent to have some kind of light...
i don't, and most likely will not in the future. i'm not hunting bad guys, i'm just minding my business.
i would like one for home defense though.
Jay Cunningham
03-13-10, 21:46
Not having one I honestly don't know - is it much of a process to get one on and off every night/morning?
SFX300, pop it on, pop it off.
Alpha Sierra
03-13-10, 21:53
Given how much violence happens at night, at dusk, or just in dark corners of the world, I think it's fairly prudent to have some kind of light...
Never said I didn't carry a light.
What I did say is that I have zero use for a light mounted on a concealed handgun. By the time the pistol comes out far enough to use the light, it is past time to use the trigger.
Jay Cunningham
03-13-10, 21:58
By the time the pistol comes out far enough to use the light, it is past time to use the trigger.
This is very valid reasoning, IMO, in the context of concealed carry.
GLOCKMASTER
03-13-10, 22:12
I do not use weapon mounted light on my off-duty carry pistol. However, I always have a Surefire hand held light readily available if needed.
HowardCohodas
03-14-10, 00:19
Yes.
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj274/HowardCohodas/Gun%20Stuff/MP45FS-Procyon-Side.jpg
No. I find pistol lights limited in practicality.
I have in the past, but do not do so often. I may be moving a Phantom w/ light from my battle belt back to IWB though and at least using the light attached when I know I'll be out at night.
will that holster work with the light unattached?
i always have 2-3 flashlights on me and more within easy reach. i keep a tlr-1s on my g19 in a rcs phantom. 4 sevens preon always in my pocket. jetbeamjet 3m is in my bag. along with a assortment of streamlights ive collected over the years. im kind of a flashaholic
will that holster work with the light unattached?
Not rob, but no, it won't work. The retention is almost 0 without the light attached.
I don't currently but I'm not really out at night much when i'd be carrying. If I do go out at night I stick a small tactical light in my coat or pants pocket.
Otherwise my pistol near my nightstand does have a weaponlight on it, as well as an additional hand held light within reach.
my wife also has a nice huge purple (her favorite color) Maglite on her side that doubles as a club haha
CaptainDooley
03-14-10, 08:13
Never said I didn't carry a light.
What I did say is that I have zero use for a light mounted on a concealed handgun. By the time the pistol comes out far enough to use the light, it is past time to use the trigger.
I see the validity of that - but you actually said hand-held or weapon mounted, which is what had me confused.
Alpha Sierra
03-14-10, 08:27
I see the validity of that - but you actually said hand-held or weapon mounted, which is what had me confused.
I did. Typing speed exceeded mental speed. :D
I am never, ever without a light on me. It is as indispensable as my wallet and car keys.
Yep, full size M&P + TLR1 or Compact M&P + TLR3 carried IWB every day. Raven gear for both. Been carrying like this for about two years now.
G22 with a light. On duty and off.
This is primarily because the Raven is by far the most comfortable IWB holster that I've worn, and I want the light mounted option for plain clothes work as well as uniform work. I also feel that its just as easy to keep everything I need for my work gun on my work gun, so I don't have to mix and match for off duty, plainclothes, uniformed duty, and tactical setups. At 5'10 220# I don't notice the bulk of the setup, and it isn't very noticeable on my frame.
I'll probably stop EDC'ing the thing once my G27 holster comes in, but I'll still have a handheld on me.
Pathfinder Ops
03-14-10, 16:18
I carry a weapon light attached while on duty but I do not carry one when off duty. I only feel comfortable carrying IWB so I wouldn't do well with a light attached. I like the Raven holsters and I want to check them out. If I do get a Raven holster it will be one for a weapon light. I was leaning toward a TLR 1.
Ditto to this.
I would like to but:
I carry a full size 1911 in an IWB except for when on duty. Therefore the light has to come off.
When on duty I put the light back on because my duty holster will accommodate the light.
Yes everytime. M&P Compact .40 with an attached TLR-3 in a homemade Raven Phantom Style holster.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/IMG_4513.JPG
I use a Raven Phantom to be able to carry my issued duty gun (M&P/TLR) off duty as well. That way I don't have to keep taking the light off and keep track of it.
MarshallDodge
03-14-10, 19:44
As an armed civilian, I carry a light separate from my gun. I have never had to use it to light up a bad guy but it has been useful for illuminating other items of interest.
I could see how it would be useful to have a weapon mounted gun if I were in a police or military role.
will that holster work with the light unattached?
No, it will not.
I did. Typing speed exceeded mental speed. :D
I am never, ever without a light on me. It is as indispensable as my wallet and car keys.
yeah i should expand on my answer, i generally dont' carry a tactical light, but i do carry a AAA arc flashlight all the time. it's tiny, bright, and super reliable.
i might pick up some kind of LED tac light at some point with a button on the base... i figure most likely if i have to draw my concealed handgun though there wont' be much time for lighting stuff up.
Never. The friggin muzzle smoke ends up obscuring my view of the target. Smoke reflects light exceptionally well.
In addition to all the other downsides of a pistol mounted light, I can't see what's going on with the target after the first shot. And you don't have time to wait for the smoke to clear to see what's going on. To a certain extent you get this with any night pistol shooting, but with the light further back of the gun, the effect isn't nearly as bad.
Never. The friggin muzzle smoke ends up obscuring my view of the target. Smoke reflects light exceptionally well.
In addition to all the other downsides of a pistol mounted light, I can't see what's going on with the target after the first shot. And you don't have time to wait for the smoke to clear to see what's going on. To a certain extent you get this with any night pistol shooting, but with the light further back of the gun, the effect isn't nearly as bad.
Activate light to see if you have a threat, engage threat, turn light off, MOVE..... this should alleviate any smoke glare. Also, moving after shooting gives you a tactical advantage. If someone starts shooting at where the light was coming from, you won't be there anymore. Most better quality defense ammunition usually has very good smoke and flash reduction. Gold Dots, Hornady, Federal TAP...
Never. The friggin muzzle smoke ends up obscuring my view of the target. Smoke reflects light exceptionally well.
In addition to all the other downsides of a pistol mounted light, I can't see what's going on with the target after the first shot. And you don't have time to wait for the smoke to clear to see what's going on. To a certain extent you get this with any night pistol shooting, but with the light further back of the gun, the effect isn't nearly as bad.
Sounds like you have tested this and come to a conclusion for your needs, can't fault you for that.
But for all the lowlight training and practice I've done, I haven't had an issue with this phenomena you mention.
My light seems to cut through any smoke just fine, and a simple side step makes the target clear as day again. You are moving, aren't you?
And to some other posts I saw- A pistol mounted light certainly doesn't replace a good handheld. But to say that only LE/MIL can benefit from a light I think is a little short sighted. They might need a light for shooting badguys in the dark. Are you saying you wont ever have to shoot a bad guy in the dark? Statistically if you have to shoot anybody it will be after nightfall.
Lights serve their purpose in specific cases. That said, just because the light is mounted doesn't mean you have to use it. Employ it when needed, leave it alone when not needed. I like having the option.
Jay Cunningham
03-15-10, 12:57
You guys that are saying to "simply" move after you shoot... I am wondering how "simple" this is if you are barricaded at the end of your upstairs hallway? Or if you are in your living room and moving laterally means stepping into your couch or endtable?
Generally speaking, solid advice to "move" after illuminating or shooting, but context is everything. Moving may not always be that simple - or even desirable. One size does not fit all.
Nope, none of my 1911's that I CCW are railed, and if they were, I'm not sure I would.................
John_Wayne777
03-15-10, 13:07
I carry OWB in a Raven holster occasionally with a mounted light. Most of the time I carry IWB without a light. When I go home and take off my pants, the M&P formerly carried IWB goes into nightstand mode with a mounted X200B. Having the light mounted to the weapon is invaluable for a "WTF was that?"-at-3-am gun.
On the street it's highly likely that I'll already be using a handheld light as the handheld light gives some freedom that you can't get with a weapon light. I can, for instance, light that suspicious looking dude who is approaching me up with a handheld Surefire and challenge him with "CAN I HELP YOU?" These actions communicate to the bad guy that he's screwing with the wrong hombre while being absolutely 100% legal and beyond reproach, avoiding any potential charges during a later interaction with law enforcement. It will be hard for the scumbag to press an assault charge for simply shining a flashlight on him and asking "CAN I HELP YOU?"
In such a situation if I need to shoot I'll be shooting using the light already in my hand. It's not inconceivable that the mounted light could come in handy in other circumstances, but in those circumstances I can use my handheld light techniques pretty well.
NCPatrolAR
03-15-10, 13:08
Never. The friggin muzzle smoke ends up obscuring my view of the target. Smoke reflects light exceptionally well.
In addition to all the other downsides of a pistol mounted light, I can't see what's going on with the target after the first shot. And you don't have time to wait for the smoke to clear to see what's going on. To a certain extent you get this with any night pistol shooting, but with the light further back of the gun, the effect isn't nearly as bad.
You need to ditch that cap and ball revolver. ;)
Jay Cunningham
03-15-10, 14:06
I carry OWB in a Raven holster occasionally with a mounted light. Most of the time I carry IWB without a light. When I go home and take off my pants, the M&P formerly carried IWB goes into nightstand mode with a mounted X200B. Having the light mounted to the weapon is invaluable for a "WTF was that?"-at-3-am gun.
On the street it's highly likely that I'll already be using a handheld light as the handheld light gives some freedom that you can't get with a weapon light. I can, for instance, light that suspicious looking dude who is approaching me up with a handheld Surefire and challenge him with "CAN I HELP YOU?" These actions communicate to the bad guy that he's screwing with the wrong hombre while being absolutely 100% legal and beyond reproach, avoiding any potential charges during a later interaction with law enforcement. It will be hard for the scumbag to press an assault charge for simply shining a flashlight on him and asking "CAN I HELP YOU?"
In such a situation if I need to shoot I'll be shooting using the light already in my hand. It's not inconceivable that the mounted light could come in handy in other circumstances, but in those circumstances I can use my handheld light techniques pretty well.
As applies to CCW, this all makes a lot of sense.
sounds to me like both is the best argument.
NCPatrolAR
03-15-10, 14:15
sounds to me like both is the best argument.
The weapon light is only a supplement to a handheld light. It shouldn't be a replacement
HowardCohodas
03-15-10, 14:30
The weapon light is only a supplement to a handheld light. It shouldn't be a replacement
You're correct. They serve different purposes. Thus, in addition to the attached XTI Procyon, I also carry an E2D LED.
Always have a Plan B, C, D, ...
i have 2-3 flashlights on me all the time. not including my weapon light
This above is good reasoning (by John Wayne). I cannot tell you how many threats and threats to my friends that have been thwarted by a Surefire E2D or similar. Great tool for this.
I tried to carry my G19 with my X300 attached, but even in a RCS holster, it was not at all comfortable. I don't know what it was about it, possibly my build, but I was contanstly pinching my butt check whenever I sat down, was sitting, or getting up from sitting. Not really advantageous when one is a desk jockey. I found myself, more often than not, going without carrying which defeated the purpose. I've since switched to a non-mount holster and a handheld light which I always have one me anyway. I don't have any problems and don't feel disadvantaged at all.
No, only my nightstand gun and my rifle have weapon lights attached.
John_Wayne777
03-15-10, 16:05
As applies to CCW, this all makes a lot of sense.
One of the best pieces of information I've ever received as it relates to self defense was from a San Fran cop at a training course long ago who spent about an hour explaining to me how light could be used as an effective weapon against bad people in your typical urban environment.
You guys that are saying to "simply" move after you shoot... I am wondering how "simple" this is if you are barricaded at the end of your upstairs hallway? Or if you are in your living room and moving laterally means stepping into your couch or endtable?
Generally speaking, solid advice to "move" after illuminating or shooting, but context is everything. Moving may not always be that simple - or even desirable. One size does not fit all.
Correct, but as lights apply to this topic (illuminating the smoke from previously fired rounds), the weapon mounted light may help you obtain more accurate threat ID and initial string of fire. If the smoke is too thick to see, the light can be shut off just as easily as it was turned on. My point still being, that simply having the light on the gun is not a downfall. Use it when useful, leave it alone (or turn it off) when it is no longer useful.
Everything is a trade off, but there are some instances where a light is useful. The mantra of "I will probably not need it" doesn't sit well with me. If we went with that logic, none of us would carry guns, spare mags, flashlights, wear seatbelts, own fire extinguishers, etc. If I can comfortably carry and conceal a pistol mounted light, I will (and do).
Same applies to my rifles. I have a white light mounted at all times, but it is situation dependent on when I will/wont use said light.
Jay Cunningham
03-15-10, 16:19
Correct, but as lights apply to this topic (illuminating the smoke from previously fired rounds), the weapon mounted light may help you obtain more accurate threat ID and initial string of fire. If the smoke is too thick to see, the light can be shut off just as easily as it was turned on. My point still being, that simply having the light on the gun is not a downfall. Use it when useful, leave it alone (or turn it off) when it is no longer useful.
Everything is a trade off, but there are some instances where a light is useful. The mantra of "I will probably not need it" doesn't sit well with me. If we went with that logic, none of us would carry guns, spare mags, flashlights, wear seatbelts, own fire extinguishers, etc. If I can comfortably carry and conceal a pistol mounted light, I will (and do).
Same applies to my rifles. I have a white light mounted at all times, but it is situation dependent on when I will/wont use said light.
Once again - context. I thought that we were talking about CCW?
We are; if one decides to CCW with a weaponlight attached, then one should not think of it as a replacement for a handheld. Different tools for different problems.
JW's posts are almost always dead on- use of a light, without a gun, can be a powerful tool, especially when pointing a gun at someone isn't necessary or warranted. Even with a weaponlight, I still keep my E1B in my pocket, and I carry 2 handhelds on duty (with a big one in my car) There are also some times when having the light would be useful, like wanting a 2 handed grip on your gun while illuminating your target at night, or when having to use your other hand to stabilize yourself (on a railing or on the ground).
Thinking about movement is always a good thing; its just as important to have the presence of mind to recognize when movement isn't a good idea. I just can't fathom anyone making a blanket statement that CCW'ing a weaponlight is a bad idea, period. Limited circumstances, absolutely, but when its needed, it can be the best tool for the job.
Once again - context. I thought that we were talking about CCW?
My entire post was about CCW except for the comparison at the end on how I treat the white light on my rifle the same as my pistol. I carry a lighted gun every day.
Jay Cunningham
03-15-10, 20:31
My entire post was about CCW except for the comparison at the end on how I treat the white light on my rifle the same as my pistol. I carry a lighted gun every day.
Okay. You mentioned rifles, just wanted to make sure the thread didn't drift.
D. Christopher
03-15-10, 21:19
A Surefire is always in my left rear pocket, held perfectly in place by my wallet, helps keep the wallet in place too. I’ve been doing this for over 20 years now so it’s as ingrained as is humanly possible. Sidearm is always on my right hip, so I never reach for the flashlight with my weapon hand. I need the flashlight all the time and use it dozens of times each day and night, but I rarely draw my pistol outside of the house or range. I can’t even imagine waving my pistol around to look for a BG, and I sure don’t want one lucky shot to take out my light and my pistol! I was always trained to use the light tactically for illumination, distraction, and deception. NOT to announce “Here is my COM, take your best shot!” If a BG can tell which way your weapon is pointed, that seems like a serious disadvantage to me. Independent use of the light and weapon are a crucial part of my survival plans. I’d like to carry a bazooka with a Klieg light attached, but I can make do with less!
Each person has to weigh all the pros and cons and decide what’s best for them. Train hard, practice as much as you can, don’t stop thinking, and stay safe.
Never. The friggin muzzle smoke ends up obscuring my view of the target. Smoke reflects light exceptionally well.
In addition to all the other downsides of a pistol mounted light, I can't see what's going on with the target after the first shot. And you don't have time to wait for the smoke to clear to see what's going on. To a certain extent you get this with any night pistol shooting, but with the light further back of the gun, the effect isn't nearly as bad.
Some of these concerns might be a training issue.
1. Locate a target (believe someone is in a general direction).
2. Flash target with light to ID.
3. Move.
4. Flash target again to ID weapon (if you did not see one the first time).
5. Move.
6. Fire weapon.
7. Move.
In this method, there will be no smoke to obscure your FOV.
IMHO, there are more downsides to using a Handheld light VS a weapon mounted one. If you doubt what I am saying, do some CQB work at night. Watch the guys with weapon mounted lights VS the ones without. Notice their accuracy differences and how much easier they navigate doors, windows and or moving things.
C4
In theory it seems like a good idea, but I feel like it would be a PITA to carry that thing all day long. Plus, I have a smaller waist so it might be a little tougher to conceal. However, if you can pull it off, go for it!
Hey, I forgot about this thread. There's some sound reasoning here on CCW[ing] with a light mounted on one's carry weapon.
I do not carry with a weaponlight attached. . .
I am carrying concealed for a reason, and I prefer to minimize my profile and maximize my comfort.
IMO having a small hand-held light like an E1B is preferable to a weaponlight. . .but at some point you need to make a decision as to what constitutes "reasonable" in the circumstance of EDC.
That point is well taken.
. . .I have zero use for a light mounted on a concealed handgun. By the time the pistol comes out far enough to use the light, it is past time to use the trigger.
This is something worth of consideration.
On the street it's highly likely that I'll already be using a handheld light as the handheld light gives some freedom that you can't get with a weapon light. I can, for instance, light that suspicious looking dude who is approaching me up with a handheld Surefire and challenge him with "CAN I HELP YOU?" These actions communicate to the bad guy that he's screwing with the wrong hombre while being absolutely 100% legal and beyond reproach, avoiding any potential charges during a later interaction with law enforcement. It will be hard for the scumbag to press an assault charge for simply shining a flashlight on him and asking "CAN I HELP YOU?"
In such a situation if I need to shoot I'll be shooting using the light already in my hand. It's not inconceivable that the mounted light could come in handy in other circumstances, but in those circumstances I can use my handheld light techniques pretty well.
Sound reasoning for one to seriously contemplate.
The weapon light is only a supplement to a handheld light. It shouldn't be a replacement
Indeed!
Some of these concerns might be a training issue.
IMHO, there are more downsides to using a Handheld light VS a weapon mounted one. If you doubt what I am saying, do some CQB work at night. Watch the guys with weapon mounted lights VS the ones without. Notice their accuracy differences and how much easier they navigate doors, windows and or moving things.
Interesting perspective.
Nephrology
05-01-11, 23:15
If it is cold enough to warrant a big jacket that can conceal my 17/19 w/TLR-1, then yes. Otherwise no.
ghettomedic
05-02-11, 08:12
The weapon light is only a supplement to a handheld light. It shouldn't be a replacement
This. I carry my SA LW Operator IWB in a Raven Phantom LC with a TLR-1 mounted. I also carry a Surefire E2DL every day, regardless of CCW gun.
As JW777 previously stated, it's awfully tough to catch a charge for illuminating an unknown contact with a handheld. I view my weaponlight as a tool for managing an unequal initiative encounter, searching after neutralizing a threat and for use within my home; not as a means of identifying and validating unknowns.
Also, I find I use my EDC light 2-3 times a day for things completely unrelated to self-defense or weaponry. Never know when that light in the fridge is going to burn out. :D
Yes, G22 w/TLR1 IWB. This is my duty gun and I always have another light source, usually surefire 6p or streamlight microstream (might get replaced with ProTac)
In the winter, or late fall, when I have a jacket or heavy clothes and am going somewhere where discretion isnt needed I carry my G17 with a X300 in an Atomic Dog Holster .
I also carry a pocket light, always carry a pocket light.
But if I can carry a mounted light as well thats just gravy, esp since during that heavy clothing time is also when its darker earlier and longer.
I carry my G17 with a x300 in a raven LC phantom. Other than the obvious advantage of having light at the ready, the weaponlight also helps minimize muzzle flip with the additional weight added.
Magic_Salad0892
05-02-11, 14:09
I do not carry a weaponlight on my gun, as I feel it's not applicable to me.
I do carry a handheld light on my person most of the time. SureFire E2D.
My eyes adapt very well to the dark, and do so pretty fast. My usual schedule is nightly anyway, so my ''3-am-gun'' is more like a ''3-pm-gun'', and my eyes are more used to night time than they are day time. The only exception to my schedule is weekends, shooting, seeing people, etc. My actual weakpoint is shooting in strongly illuminated rooms, as I am a little light sensitive.
Weaponlights illuminate smoke, and distract me from my front sight. It's a training error primarily, but I shoot slower with a light attached to my gun.
Eventually I will try to remedy this, but I am confident in my ability as is.
Quick_1911
05-02-11, 14:25
Yep, Glock 19 with a TLR1s in a Raven Phantom IWB all day every day, I haven't had any issues with comfort or concealability.
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