View Full Version : VA - 6996 Traffic tickets in one weekend!!!
Let's try really hard not to make this thread anti-police officer, it's not intended to be. I'm still digging up more info on this but for now I can honestly say the politicians and this bullshit in VA is way out of hand! http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/virginia-state-police-help-with-budget-crunch/
A federally funded ticketing blitz in the state of Virginia landed a total of 6996 traffic tickets this weekend. The blitz, dubbed “Operation Air, Land & Speed” coincided with frantic efforts by state officials to close a$2.2 billion budget deficit. Supervisors ordered state troopers to saturate Interstates 81 and 95 to issue as many tickets as humanly possible over the space of two days.
“The safety of Virginia’s highways begins the minute a vehicle is put in ‘drive,’” Virginia State Police Superintendent W. Steven Flaherty said in a statement. “Those split second decisions to choose not to drive drunk, to choose to wear a seat belt and to choose not to speed or drive aggressively really do make a difference in preventing and/or surviving a crash.”
Officers had no trouble delivering the requested number of speeding tickets with a total of 3536 ordinary speeding citations written. In addition, another 717 “reckless driving” tickets were filed, although these most often are simple speeding tickets that happen to carry a fine of up to $2500. Driving as little as 10 to 15 MPH over the limit can qualify for this enhanced punishment. On the other end of the scale, some 310 tickets were handed to drivers who either forgot to wear their seatbelts or made a choice not to do so.
Activists with the National Motorists Association pointed out that enforcement efforts may have concentrated on areas where speed limits are expected to rise to 70 MPH following Governor Bob McDonnell’s signature on legislation raising the state’s maximum speed limit (view law). This would mean a significant number of tickets were issued for conduct that will be perfectly legal in a matter of months. The group also indicated that state police tactics may run afoul of state law.
“All officers making arrests incident to the enforcement of this title shall be paid fixed salaries for their services and shall have no interest in, nor be permitted by law to accept the benefit of, any fine or fee resulting from the arrest or conviction of an offender against any provision of this title,” Virginia Code Section 46.2-102 states.
Under the federal grant application process, state officials explained that they would pay officers overtime — at least one-and-a-half times their normal salary — to participate. This special reward for ticketing operation participants appears to violate the spirit of state law.
Since 2006, a total of twenty-three ticketing blitzes have taken place, generating 120,977 traffic tickets.
http://www.businessinsider.com/virginia-hands-out-6996-traffic-tickets-in-one-weekend-in-an-effort-to-raise-revenue-for-the-state-government-2010-3
In the old days, police officers wrote traffic tickers primarily to keep people safe and to prevent citizens from breaking the traffic laws.
But in the new Amerika, all of that has changed. Now traffic tickets are primarily viewed as a revenue raising tool for state and local governments. For example, a federally funded ticketing blitz in the state of Virginia resulted in a total of 6996 traffic tickets being handed out this past weekend. This most recent ticketing blitz is part of a campaign code-named "Operation Air, Land & Speed". Last Saturday and Sunday state troopers were ordered to absolutely saturate Interstate 95 and Interstate 81 and to issue as many traffic tickets as humanly possible during those two days. Why? Well, it turns out that the state of Virginia has a 2.2 billion dollar budget deficit that they are trying to deal with, and so they need to find some quick sources of cash.
You see, state and local governments all over the nation are massively jacking up traffic fines and are starting to write a lot more tickets in an attempt to "enhance" their streams of revenue.
In other words, state and local governments across the U.S. are broke and so they need some suckers to prey on.
Not that it was ever a good idea to break the traffic laws. But now even a minor violation can put a massive hole in your wallet. For instance, driving as little as 15 miles an hour over the speed limit in Virginia can get you a reckless driving charge that can carry a fine of up to $2500.
So why the hefty fines?
Well, the law increasing the traffic fines in Virginia clearly admitted why they are so high....
"The purpose of the civil remedial fees imposed in this section is to generate revenue." (Virginia Code 46.2-206.1)
Are you starting to get the picture?
But this kind of thing is not just happening in Virginia.
"Sobriety checkpoints" in the state of California are increasingly bring used as revenue raising operations. It turns out that these sobriety checkpoints are far more likely to seize cars from unlicensed motorists than they are to catch drunk drivers.
So how profitable are these "sobriety" checkpoints?
Well, research done by the Investigative Reporting Program at UC Berkeley with California Watch discovered that impounds at "sobriety" checkpoints in 2009 alone generated approximately 40 million dollars in towing fees and police fines.
That is what you call a source of revenue.
In Detroit, even the police admit that the fundamental nature of police work is changing. Just consider the following quote from from Police Chief Michael Reaves of Utica, Michigan....
"When I first started in this job 30 years ago, police work was never about revenue enhancement, but if you’re a chief now, you have to look at whether your department produces revenues."
Sgt. Richard Lyons of Trenton, Michigan is even more blunt about what is happening in his community....
"They’re trying to use police officers to balance the budget on the backs of drivers, and it’s too bad. The people we count on to support us and help us when we’re on the road are the ones who end up paying the bills, and they’re ticked off about it. We might as well just go door to door and tell people, ‘Slide us $100 now since your 16-year-old is going to end up paying us anyway when he starts driving.’ You can’t blame people for getting upset."
But some localities are converting to even more automated ways of making money from drivers.
For example, "red-light cameras" have become huge revenue raising tools in many areas of the country. In Los Angeles, revenue from red-light cameras has doubled from $200,000 a month in 2007 to $400,000 a month at the end of 2009.
California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger wants cities and counties in his state to take things even farther. He wants them to install speed sensors on existing red-light cameras. Speeders caught by these sensors would face fines ranging from $225 to $325.
Don't all of us wish we could start a business that could make so much money from each customer?
California state officials believe that these speed sensors would raise more than 300 million dollars for the state of California by the end of 2011.
All of this is enough to make one want to drive like a grandmother.
Except then they would get you for going too slow.
Seriously.
The reality is that you have to be very, very careful out there now because the nature of driving in America has fundamentally changed.
Whether it is rapidly increasing traffic fines or all of the toll roads going in everywhere, American drivers are increasingly being viewed as a big fat revenue source.
And as the current economic collapse gets even worse, drivers are going to be preyed upon even more by state and local governments.
If you have not already done so, now is the time to change the way that you drive. Don't give state and local governments an excuse to take even more of your hard-earned money from you than they are already.
http://www.wcyb.com/2010/03/09/Operation-Air--Land---Speed-Wraps-Up-Again/6531090
The Virginia State Police stopped thousands of speeders and reckless drivers during a two-day enforcement effort on Interstates 81 and 95.
The weekend initiative dubbed "Operation Air, Land and Speed" netted 3,536 speeders, 717 reckless drivers and 20 drunken drivers.
More than 300 safety belt violations were also recorded. In all, the operation rung up just over 7,000 summonses and arrests.
The weekend enforcement effort was the 13th conducted on the two interstates since "Operation Air, Land and Speed" launched in 2006.
Cascades236
03-13-10, 20:47
Boycott their efforts. Drive lawfully
Boycott their efforts. Drive lawfully
You've obviously missed the point. They have orders to ticket any and everyone for any minor infraction. I call bullshit on the whole thing.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1818.asp
Virginia Introduces $3550 Speeding Ticket
Virginia legislator introduces new speeding ticket tax that boosts penalties beyond $3550, driving business to his traffic law firm.
Virginia motorists convicted of minor traffic violations will face a new, multi-year tax beginning July 1. Led by state Delegate David B. Albo (R-Springfield), lawmakers slipped a driver responsibility tax into a larger transportation funding bill signed by Governor Tim Kaine (D) in April. Albo, a senior partner in the Albo & Oblon, LLP traffic law firm, can expect to see a significant increase in business as motorists seek to protect their wallet from traffic tickets that come with assessments of up to $3000 in addition to an annual point tax that tops out at $700 a year for as long as the points remain.
"The purpose of the civil remedial fees imposed in this section is to generate revenue," the new law states. (Virginia Code 46.2-206.1)
Driving as little as 15 MPH over the limit on an interstate highway now brings six license demerit points, a fine of up to $2500, up to one year in jail, and a new mandatory $1050 tax. The law also imposes an additional annual fee of up to $100 if a prior conviction leaves the motorist with a balance of eight demerit points, plus $75 for each additional point (up to $700 a year). The conviction in this example remains on the record for five years.
Other six-point convictions include "failing to give a proper signal," "passing a school bus" or "driving with an obstructed view." The same $1050 assessment applies, but the conviction remains on the record for eleven years.
Although the amount of the tax can add up quickly, the law forbids judges from reducing or suspending it in any way. The tax applies only to Virginia residents, so that out-of-state motorists only need to pay the regular ticket amount. Michigan, New Jersey, New York and Texas also impose a somewhat more modest driver responsibility tax which they apply to out-of-state residents.
The Virginia Supreme Court provides a full explanation of the new penalties for each traffic infraction in the 34k PDF file at the source link below. Update: View which legislators support a repeal, link to online petition.
Source: Civil Remedial Fees (Executive Secretary, Virginia Supreme Court, 6/21/2007)
Alpha Sierra
03-13-10, 20:50
How can a thread like this NOT be anti-police?
They are accomplices in this f-ing strong arm robbery. If they had any integrity, they would all come down with a massive case of blue flu.
How can a thread like this NOT be anti-police?
They are accomplices in this f-ing strong arm robbery. If they had any integrity, they would all come down with a massive case of blue flu.
I just wanted to spread the news, not have a pissing contest about cops, again. The whole thing seems pretty hypocritical when I see officers breaking all sorts of traffic laws, all the time. There, it's been said and now hopefully we can drop that angle.
don't drive in virginia...inform everyone you know about what is going on...when you stop driving or frequenting that state and boycott it from any vacation plans, they tend to see the light...an empty beach, empty hotels, empty amusement parks, empty state parks and golf courses...easy to combat these type things...
if they jack up the price of gas any more, i will stay home and not vacation again this year...put the money in the savings account and hope for better times next year...i've been pretty happy over the past several years with the "staycation", i've been doing it before it became cool to do...
keep your money in your pocket...
They saturated every news source with their intent. Newspapers, TV and Cable TV.
They gave extensive interviews stating it was going to happen, what they were going to ticket - everything - and why.
The wife and I were both coming back from different places south, that required a full trip from the southern border of VA to NoVA. We were both aware of their efforts that day, and both avoided tickets.
Just south of Richmond there were 15 State Troopers sitting in one median, and as I passed at 55mph, all but two of them lit out on violators. Was a sight to behold.
Bulldog7972
03-13-10, 21:45
A Police Officer must ask himself if he signed up to be a Police Officer, a Revenue agent or a pimp for the city. IMHO, if your partaking in things like this you are either a revenue Agent or a pimp but certainly not a Police Officer. And I say that as a 30 year veteran Police Officer.
Alpha Sierra
03-13-10, 21:50
As soon as this stupid blitz is over traffic in Virginia will go right back to 75 plus.
Traffic laws and traffic enforcement in the USA are a pathetic joke.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1818.asp
This was struck down by the courts as a violation of the 14th Amendment, as the fines only applied to people who lived in Virginia.
Regardless, open revenue generation attempts like these place the police squarely as adversaries to the public they are supposed to protect and serve.
We can't allow ourselves to forget who put them in that position.
As soon as this stupid blitz is over traffic in Virginia will go right back to 75 plus.
Traffic laws and traffic enforcement in the USA are a pathetic joke.
Montana used to have the best daytime driving laws, a safe speed was determined by prevailing conditions. Outside of a city or populated area I see no reason to have an arbitrary number, aka speed limit, used for creating revenue.
Incidentally, the safest period of driving was prior to them reinstating a speed limit in 2000. Many reports back up the fact that setting an artificially low speed limit increases accidents.
Belmont31R
03-13-10, 22:16
All I know is I REALLY REALLY miss driving in Germany. There you get tickets for things that actually affect safety. Come back to the USA after almost 4 years of being overseas, and what they ticket you here for is things that have little to no affect on safety.
Here in TX....DPS will ticket you for 75 in a 70 while driving a "sports car" with a lot better braking and handling ability than almost anything else on the road, and yet let an old van go by tail gaiting and weaving through traffic because they are only going 68 in a 70. The US's traffic laws are all about revenue.
But I guess I've gotten lucky in just over 3 years of driving my 350Z I have yet to be pulled over.....:cool:
NinjaMedic
03-13-10, 22:25
A Police Officer must ask himself if he signed up to be a Police Officer, a Revenue agent or a pimp for the city. IMHO, if your partaking in things like this you are either a revenue Agent or a pimp but certainly not a Police Officer. And I say that as a 30 year veteran Police Officer.
I think this thread has run its cousre but thats just my opinion . . .
I wondered what was going on. I haven't had a TV hooked up since the move, but all last week the State guys were all over the place.
And some wonder how the adversarial relationship develops between "LE" and the community. Defacto revenue generation officers focusing on victimless administrative crimes... Makes me quite happy with the idea of a rapid downsize of the dept.
Maybe when working as a firefighter/paramedic.. I should have fined people for being overweight, smoking, etc.
NCPatrolAR
03-13-10, 23:05
While I hate writing tickets, if you dont want one; dont break the law. Its not like they made up a bunch of new laws and immediately started enforcing them.
Guess I dont understand the issue since I'm part of the tyranny da Man is imposing on people.
While I hate writing tickets, if you dont want one; dont break the law. Its not like they made up a bunch of new laws and immediately started enforcing them.
Guess I dont understand the issue since I'm part of the tyranny da Man is imposing on people.
I think it proves the point just how broad state statutes can be, how much discretion LE uses on a daily basis and just how bad people really do drive. But hey, LE bashing is a much easier conclusion to arrive at, as it fits the desire of beating ones chest. :rolleyes:
JBecker 72
03-14-10, 00:04
How could I have not noticed any increased police activity, or received a ticket from this sting?
Oh, thats right, I obey the traffic laws :)
It's really not that hard. That and I drive a slow 4x4 Chevy truck.
usaffarmer
03-14-10, 00:07
Its not anti-police, its an anit-bullshit policits thread. ;)
And some wonder how the adversarial relationship develops between "LE" and the community. Defacto revenue generation officers focusing on victimless administrative crimes... Makes me quite happy with the idea of a rapid downsize of the dept.
Maybe when working as a firefighter/paramedic.. I should have fined people for being overweight, smoking, etc.
I am 100% for shutting down LE agencies for a weekend or 2. I'd LOVE to see the result.
And, why not charge to overly obese and/or smokers for their greater than average drain on our resources that result from their bad habits? I don't have a problem with that.
All I know is I REALLY REALLY miss driving in Germany. There you get tickets for things that actually affect safety. Come back to the USA after almost 4 years of being overseas, and what they ticket you here for is things that have little to no affect on safety.
I got pulled over on the Autobahn in Germany. I had two other Americans in the car with me (none of us was there with the Army or US gov) and I was just explaining to them how the police pull people over on the Autobahn in Germany when this police car pulled in front of me, lit up his "Bitte Folgen" sign, and led me to a rest area. I could not have planned it better.
I only got a warning. For having a dirty license plate (road grime had built up on it).
It was a 10 year old Mazda GLX and was not going fast or driving to endanger. Whole thing was kind of funny.
The problem with this thing in VA is that the purpose was not to make things safer but to raise revenue. The punishment is not in proportion to the "crime." The laws are written to raise revenue. It makes the state a predator and the populace the prey. Hardly what the function of government is supposed to be.
Digression:
Driving in Germany on the Autobahn was a dream. I rarely drove fast due to the price of gas (buying it on the economy at the time at around $6 gallon -- this was 91-93) but I never had to worry about looking for the cop hiding out trying to get me. If I needed to go faster, I could go faster. No stress. No heart problems. No worries about stupid things. You could concentrate on your driving. I normally drove around 60-65 but if I was late could go a bit faster.
My Golf at the time would do 105mph and I did it a few times when needed. After the 65 car pileup on the Autobahn that I was in the middle of and my Golf had enough body panel damage to be totaled I ended up with an old Mazda GLX and could not go that fast anymore (no, I was not speeding, I had just gotten on the Autobahn on the previous onramp -- someone rammed a truck in the fog and caused a pile up and idiot businessmen speeding through the fog in their big mercedes and BWMs kept piling into the stopped traffic). A friend who was a body man with his own shop loaned me his 4 banger Mercedes which I did get to about 140mph but since it was not mine I only tried it once. Had a 4 banger rental mercedes in 2000 that I cruised at 135mph for a good length of time trying to get to Stuttgart on time for a YES concert... I know these speeds are not particularly fast but I never had access to anything that would do more than 120mph than a 4 cylinder Mercedes that would top out at around 140mph... Of course in the Mercedes at 135mph it felt like any other car at 75mph
usaffarmer
03-14-10, 00:17
I am 100% for shutting down LE agencies for a weekend or 2. I'd LOVE to see the result.
And, why not charge to overly obese and/or smokers for their greater than average drain on our resources that result from their bad habits? I don't have a problem with that.
Our departments would have more money for better equipment. Sounds like a good idea. I could use some new toys...
dookie1481
03-14-10, 00:49
While I hate writing tickets, if you dont want one; dont break the law. Its not like they made up a bunch of new laws and immediately started enforcing them.
Guess I dont understand the issue since I'm part of the tyranny da Man is imposing on people.
I agree with you; I've learned not to speed after 2 speeding tickets.
However, when those same cops writing tickets for doing 42 in a 35 are speeding all the time, it tends to foster an "us versus them" mentality.
Jay
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-14-10, 00:50
Virginia is for speeders...
I just wish they'd enforce the left lane for passing and speed minimums too..
I think the larger issue is that revenue generation and the depth of the net cast. I think all these laws were written to keep things running smoothly and safely, not that every single infraction would be cited. As we get more and more unmanned electronic ability to spot infractions and the local govt desire to raise cash could meet up and every infraction over a few mph, every stop line breached by 6 inches and every stop sign not at a full stop will lead to $50 here and there.
So illegals with out licenses don't have to pay the higher fees but still get in-state college tuition?
Just wait till interstate speeds go to 55mph to help fight global warming.
...
And, why not charge to overly obese and/or smokers for their greater than average drain on our resources that result from their bad habits? I don't have a problem with that.
are you talking about the cops? I thought the cop/donut jokes were off limits anymore...
are you talking about the cops? I thought the cop/donut jokes were off limits anymore...
Hit a nerve, tubby? :confused:
The war on traffic is going about as well as the war on drugs.
Call me old fashioned, but I want the police to find the real bad guys and kill them. Or at least beat the living crap out of them. I have been pulled over a couple times in my driving career, never given a ticket for speeding, most of the officers were courteous and professional, as was I. Other than preventing me from getting to various destinations at any reasonable speed, I don't have too much of a beef with traffic cops. Most of the area I travel in is very rural, so speed limits become bizarrely insulting when you have an hours drive with next to nobody on the road, and no structures anywhere either.
Generally the only two ways you'll ever see much law enforcement are if you speed, are some kind of drunken degenerate, or work as a law enforcement officer. Because many regular Americans hate the constitution and curse their ancestors, I have to assume much of the negativity and disrespect normal people have for cops comes from traffic enforcement.
What would be good? "As conditions permit" on highways, with speed limits in cities and towns. You'd get way more revenue because commerce would move quicker. When California went to 55 for trucks, it cost them an unbelievable amount of revenue, simply because less stuff got into and out of the state.
ZDL, the problem with health care is health insurance being a discount card vs actual insurance like what auto insurance provides (assuming you aren't one of the 25-50% of people dodging that). Poor people get something of a free ride, but big corporations, unions and the government get an equally free ride (though this will change over time). Hospitals bankrupt ordinary people to get back in the black.
In fact the reason why you're seeing huge premium increases is so many people are milking the system that hospitals are unable to recover enough money by bankrupting regular joes. Hospitals can't charge medicare/medicade/state programs more money, so they started squeezing insurers, who in turn squeeze corporations large and small. The little guys are all but out of the game right now, when big corporations finally get hit big time, they'll either hire doctors and do things in house, or slash benefits to nothing. The feds will have to ration at that point (your care rationed, not theirs).
If you've had really good insurance and looked at your bill, it reads something like this.
Procedure cost - $10,000
Insurer allowed us to bill - $1,750
Insurer paid - $1,650
You pay - $100
The problem is people aren't billed equally for the same procedure at the same hospital. This means good living is never rewarded and bad living is never punished, especially if you have an accident and are hospitalized with no insurance or bad insurance. Going to single payer would only make the situation worse. You'll end up with a bunch of big fat tards draining the system, sort of like it is now, but way worse. In case you haven't noticed, you see a lot of jabba-the-hut, cubicle-sized creatures lurking the hallowed halls of government offices. If you told them or welfare recipients they had to stay within a certain BMI to get state healthcare they'd scream like a stuck pig. Yeah, I know it's not your fault your jaw isn't wired shut, but give the rest of us a break.
I am 100% for shutting down LE agencies for a weekend or 2. I'd LOVE to see the result.
Well, back in the 70s when the police went on strike in NM the crime rate fell... Something about citizens having different rules of engagement...
You can Google it but it is mentioned here:
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st176.pdf
Well, back in the 70s when the police went on strike in NM the crime rate fell... Something about citizens having different rules of engagement...
You can Google it but it is mentioned here:
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st176.pdf
Like I said, I'd LOVE to see what happens. I'm a citizen of my community just like anyone else even if people believe law enforcement otherwise. I'd LOVE to see it. Truthfully.
I'll say the obvious, it aint the 70s anymore.
Well, back in the 70s when the police went on strike in NM the crime rate fell... Something about citizens having different rules of engagement...
You can Google it but it is mentioned here:
http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st176.pdf
1975 Albuquerque police strike. How about that, the death penalty is indeed an effective deterrent.
I guess the criminals figured out pretty quick that the police were the only ones standing between them and the citizens wanting payback. When you make your living being a criminal, dying isn't much of a living.
arizonaranchman
03-14-10, 06:12
My only real issue with this is the grotesquely high fines on some of these violations... Like $2500 for a speeding ticket? Did I read that right??? Are you kidding? At what point do we stop and call this excessive and all out of line with reasonable in relation to the violation? How about $10,000 or $20,000... or hey about about $100,000? Or how about we pull him out of the car and just execute him for speeding? Where does it stop? See what i mean?
This is a speeding ticket folks. A couple hundred dollars is fine, but when fines become financially ruinous and draconian then I say BS.
Alpha Sierra
03-14-10, 06:59
Just wait till interstate speeds go to 55mph to help fight global warming.
You must have a short memory........
That shit got tried in the 70s and was a total and complete failure. I didn't obey a ridiculous speed limit like that then, don't do it now, nor will I do it in the future.
Alpha Sierra
03-14-10, 07:04
Like I said, I'd LOVE to see what happens. I'm a citizen of my community just like anyone else even if people believe law enforcement otherwise. I'd LOVE to see it. Truthfully.
I'll say the obvious, it aint the 70s anymore.
You're right. Armed self defense has become quite a bit more popular and accepted. Not to mention that there are many more citizens going about their daily lives while armed now vs then.
The only reason police are needed is because we are statutorily prohibited from dispensing justice. The only reason thugs can intimidate us is because they are mostly not afraid of prosecution and for the most part we (the law abiding, productive members of society) are. Take that fear of prosecution away and watch how the tables turn.
Think about that.
But I guess I've gotten lucky in just over 3 years of driving my 350Z I have yet to be pulled over.....:cool:
I got my first one in my Z last year. I was heading into a known speed trap town, but was distracted by a water blister on my eye. That was my third year of having owned my Z. ;)
I had an allergic reaction to something in the air while at a handgun class and developed a water blister on my eye. My eye doctor was two hours away. So, I'm driving back while keeping an eye on my eye via the rear view mirror. Subsequently, I missed the speed limit change from 55 to 45.
I hated missing the last half of the last day of the Awerbuck class though. That's when the previous two days of training were going to come together.
And, why not charge to overly obese and/or smokers for their greater than average drain on our resources that result from their bad habits? I don't have a problem with that.
And then people who drink soda, and then people who eat eggs because we think those are bad for you off and on. Then maybe we don't treat people who had accidents doing things deemed "inherently dangerous" because they should have known the risks. And then maybe someone deems something you are doing worthy of another tax or denial of service and so on. Careful with what you are suggesting and the slippery slope.
As for the thread topic. I agree, don't break the law and you won't have a problem. That being said; in our current society where personal responsibility and intelligence is at an all time low; law enforcement for the purpose of protection, safety, etc is a wonderful thing that we often take for granted or get angry about; especially when we find ourselves on the wrong side of it. Law enforcement as another form of taxation and revenue collection is complete and utter bullshit.
The problem with this thing in VA is that the purpose was not to make things safer but to raise revenue. The punishment is not in proportion to the "crime." The laws are written to raise revenue. It makes the state a predator and the populace the prey. Hardly what the function of government is supposed to be.
Well said
Hey IrishLuck73- as much as I like a well-developed female ass, can we stick with SFW avatars?
I think the larger issue is that revenue generation and the depth of the net cast. I think all these laws were written to keep things running smoothly and safely, not that every single infraction would be cited.
Originally, they were indeed well intended. But then state and local governments found that by purposely setting speed limits too low, they could create a revenue stream. The insurance companies love it for the same reason. You see the same thing with cities shortening yellow lights where red-light cameras are installed. And I have to add, it's not the trooper's fault when the speed limit is set stupidly low, it's squarely the fault of greedy legislators and regulatory bodies.
I wish the laws against left-lane obstruction, failing to signal, and misaimed/overbright headlights were enforced with the same institutional zeal, but alas, there's too little money in that for the bureaucrats to care.
Alpha Sierra
03-14-10, 09:17
And I have to add, it's not the trooper's fault when the speed limit is set stupidly low, it's squarely the fault of greedy legislators and regulatory bodies.
Absolutely.
But they are the enforcers. Legislators and regulators cannot compel us to do anything if the enforcers refuse to go along.
Police in VA should have all come down with a huge case of the blue flu. That they by and large went along with this bullshit because "it's my job" speaks volumes.
I can understand the State Police doing it. That is all they are for. But county and city police? Come on, now.......
Just show up at the court date in general district court, have a trial, then appeal to circuit court and demand a jury trial. They'll charge you ~$100 or so in "court costs" to do this, but trust me, it will come nowhere close to covering the Commonwealth's costs in doing all of that.
If more people did that instead of just prepaying them, this would not be a revenue generating exercise.
Nathan_Bell
03-14-10, 09:37
And some wonder how the adversarial relationship develops between "LE" and the community. Defacto revenue generation officers focusing on victimless administrative crimes...
Whole heartedly agree with this. Most folks' interaction with police is getting a traffic ticket, and in the situation the OP mentioned it is a ticket for running with the flow of traffic.
I have spent enough time running in these types of 70-90 mph high traffic zones to realize that the folks who are running at the speed limit are more of a hazard than someone running 75. If I have figured this out, I am fairly certain that folks who drive in it everyday have found that out as well. Now politicians decide that they need more money and tell the police to enforce the speed limit for a week or so.
Police writing these tickets now seem to be like bag men for the Mafia than peace officers who are their to provide glue for society. This the LEO's fault? Not entirely, but they will be the ones taking the brunt of the heat for it.
Fair? Nope, but we are all adults here and realize that is a useless concept.
Alpha Sierra
03-14-10, 09:47
Just show up at the court date in general district court, have a trial, then appeal to circuit court and demand a jury trial. They'll charge you ~$100 or so in "court costs" to do this, but trust me, it will come nowhere close to covering the Commonwealth's costs in doing all of that.
If more people did that instead of just prepaying them, this would not be a revenue generating exercise.
Throwing sand in the gears of the machine is definitely worth a couple of vacation days.
Throwing sand in the gears of the machine is definitely worth a couple of vacation days.
It only works if a lot of people do it, and unfortunately they don't. They can't or won't take the time, and so they pay it - and the Man knows this.
Bulldog1967
03-14-10, 09:56
The problem with this thing in VA is that the purpose was not to make things safer but to raise revenue. The punishment is not in proportion to the "crime." The laws are written to raise revenue. It makes the state a predator and the populace the prey. Hardly what the function of government is supposed to be.
Exactly. It is the same with red light cameras. Munincipalities partner with the manufacturers of the cameras to install and operate them, and then reduce the yellow light times to increase revenue. :confused:
EzGoingKev
03-14-10, 10:19
Driving as little as 15 MPH over the limit on an interstate highway now brings six license demerit points, a fine of up to $2500, up to one year in jail, and a new mandatory $1050 tax. The law also imposes an additional annual fee of up to $100 if a prior conviction leaves the motorist with a balance of eight demerit points, plus $75 for each additional point (up to $700 a year). The conviction in this example remains on the record for five years.
All that for only 15 MPH over the limit?
I thought MA was the stick it up your ass state but all you would get is get a ticket. The last time I got one it would be $50 for the speeding up to the first 10 miles over the limit and then an additional $10 for every mile after that so it would have been a $100 ticket. Now MA adds some BS head injury fee into the tickets which I think is another $50 which would make the total of $150. As long as you were not doing anything like weaving, illegal/unsafe lane changes nothing else would happen.
You would also get boned on your insurance for the next 6 years too.
“All officers making arrests incident to the enforcement of this title shall be paid fixed salaries for their services and shall have no interest in, nor be permitted by law to accept the benefit of, any fine or fee resulting from the arrest or conviction of an offender against any provision of this title,” Virginia Code Section 46.2-102 states.
Under the federal grant application process, state officials explained that they would pay officers overtime — at least one-and-a-half times their normal salary — to participate. This special reward for ticketing operation participants appears to violate the spirit of state law.
Troopers on the MSP can elect to do a traffic enforcement detail for overtime pay. They can chose between 4 hours/8 tickets or 8 hours/16 tickets. Total BS IMO.
JBecker 72
03-14-10, 10:35
Just show up at the court date in general district court, have a trial, then appeal to circuit court and demand a jury trial. They'll charge you ~$100 or so in "court costs" to do this, but trust me, it will come nowhere close to covering the Commonwealth's costs in doing all of that.
If more people did that instead of just prepaying them, this would not be a revenue generating exercise.
I thought about doing that, but my last ticket was 6 years ago when I was 19.
it was a 70 in a 55 and I just paid it before the court date.
It's not "...to serve and protect" anymore but "...to punish and enslave". Just another reason why I chose to move away from the VA/DC/MD area.:p
Hey IrishLuck73- as much as I like a well-developed female ass, can we stick with SFW avatars?
It's caused me some grief as well, but for now, Site Staff has spoken.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=48528
I think this has run it's course.
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