View Full Version : Army will allow soldiers to paint their M4s
Iraq Ninja
03-14-10, 16:21
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2010/03/army_m4_camo_031410w/
Army will allow soldiers to recolor M4s
By Matthew Cox - Staff writer
Posted : Sunday Mar 14, 2010 9:14:04 EDT
The Army is finally going to give soldiers the green light to paint their black weapons so they blend in with the terrain on the battlefield.
Soldiers have been using commercially available, spray-on camouflage paint since the beginning of the war — despite an unenforced Army policy prohibiting the practice.
Army weapons officials announced March 2 they will soon release guidelines on the proper way to paint M4 Carbines and other weapons so paint doesn’t interfere with the weapon’s operation.
“The soldiers are doing it anyway; if you go to theater, you will see that units have their weapons sprayed,” said Col. Doug Tamilio, head of Project Manager Soldier Weapons.
The reversal of the policy follows the Army’s Feb. 19 decision to start issuing MultiCam camouflage uniforms and equipment to soldiers deploying to Afghanistan this summer in an effort to help soldiers blend more effectively with the Afghan terrain.
Most Army infantry weapons are black.
“It sticks out, and we need to give them that ability,” Tamilio said. “We should issue out in the next couple of months an advisory message ... to say, ‘It’s OK to spray paint your weapons, but here is how to do it.’Ÿ”
The guidelines will identify parts of the weapons that should not be painted, such as inside the chamber and accessories such as optics.
“If you get any spray on these optics, you reduce the capability of that optic,” Tamilio said. The guidelines will also recommend the safest paints to use.
Weapons officials stressed that soldiers will have to get approval from their unit commanders before they paint their weapons.
“It will be up to the commander to say we are going to do it or we are not going to do it,” Tamilio said.
wonder if there going to mandate patterns.
wonder if there going to mandate patterns.
Good question. I bet there will be a crap ton with little skulls running around or who knows what.
Reminds me of public schools saying "You shouldn't have sex, but here's how to do it..."
commanders love to **** things up for everyone because of one person's stupidity... hopefully they'll keep pattern "guidelines" at the unit level, so one asshole's swastika doesn't ruin it across the army.
If this actually makes it down the pipeline to us I'll be very impressed.
geminidglocker
03-14-10, 19:58
When I was over in Iraq they let me have my NRA sticker. I know that technically it should have been frowned upon, but I was a good Soldier so no one said anything.:D
I don't think I'de want to paint "Black Beauty". What would I name her then??? "Tan Beauty" just does'nt sound right.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm196/davecharlie08/me136.jpg
When I was over in Iraq they let me have my NRA sticker. I know that technically it should have been frowned upon, but I was a good Soldier so no one said anything.:D
I don't think I'de want to paint "Black Beauty". What would I name her then??? "Tan Beauty" just does'nt sound right.
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm196/davecharlie08/me136.jpg
rockin the classic A2 over there nice... :cool:
Soldiers are issued tan camo BDUs and BLACK rifles...can you say "military inteligence" :rolleyes:
:D
BTW: What's the NSN for Krylon?
dookie1481
03-15-10, 00:27
My platoon got to paint ours when we went in with Task Force Tarawa in '03. I still can't believe they let us do that.
Jay
My platoon got to paint ours when we went in with Task Force Tarawa in '03. I still can't believe they let us do that.
Jay
Who were you with?
2/8 Wpns CAAT
rifleman2000
03-15-10, 08:37
I have seen plenty of painted M4s prior to any official permission.
The plus side to this is that the rifles may blend into the landscape, while the uniforms do not (until multi-cam is totally fielded).
dookie1481
03-15-10, 14:32
Who were you with?
2/8 Wpns CAAT
2/2 STA. We managed to convince higher that if we got any surveillance missions that having black rifles in the desert would be a bad thing.
We then sat manning a checkpoint for a month :o
Jay
CarlosDJackal
03-15-10, 17:59
This is a good sign that the Big Army is somewhat paying attention to what the heck is going on. As someone once said: "Black is a great TARGET INDICATOR". If this incrases our Soldiers' chance of going home, then I'm all for it. JM2CW.
Remember the days when "Nose Art" graced our aircraft.....when tools of war were personalized? Political correctness ended that....:mad:
http://northstargallery.com/Aircraft/P1011020web.jpg
GermanSynergy
03-15-10, 21:39
Properly supervised & implemented I think this is a great thing.
geminidglocker
03-15-10, 21:42
rockin the classic A2 over there nice... :cool:
I was offered an M4, but I had already used my A2 in combat so I declined and they let me keep her. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
are military vehicles still CARC green coated from the factory?
when i was in mil contract manufacturing we did a ton of stuff in 383 forest green. always struck me as odd as it was just destined for sandblasting and desert tan :p
I was offered an M4, but I had already used my A2 in combat so I declined and they let me keep her.
stick with what ya know works for sure.
soldiersystems
03-15-10, 22:10
I wrote about this back in early December and they STILL haven't actually given any permission.
http://soldiersystems.net/2009/12/04/lets-camouflage-those-weapons/
I spoke with the PM last week and he is still months out from issuing any guidance.
Nathan_Bell
03-16-10, 09:41
I wrote about this back in early December and they STILL haven't actually given any permission.
http://soldiersystems.net/2009/12/04/lets-camouflage-those-weapons/
I spoke with the PM last week and he is still months out from issuing any guidance.
Does this mean that they are allowing it and turning a blind eye to it, or is it still verbotim until the official position is promulgated?
are military vehicles still CARC green coated from the factory?
when i was in mil contract manufacturing we did a ton of stuff in 383 forest green. always struck me as odd as it was just destined for sandblasting and desert tan :p
Strykers are still green and remain green even when deployed. Not sure why. Also, I haven't seen an MGS variant in a while. I don't think we have too many tracked vehicles left in Iraq either.
soldiersystems
03-16-10, 13:45
FYI, there is Tan CARC, we used on the grizzly when I worked on that project.
As far as small arms. Policy has not changed even though the Army Times article would lead one to believe it had. Like I said, when I got the info in October they were months away and last week LTC Tamilio told me that they were months out.
the policy will finally make it down once weve pulled out of the region. typical goverment
VooDoo6Actual
03-16-10, 14:42
Typical.
Luckystiff
03-17-10, 00:05
Why the hell don't we just order the guns in tan in the first place like the SCAR.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-17-10, 01:29
Why the hell don't we just order the guns in tan in the first place like the SCAR.
Anodized tans and sand colors look wrong to me. Almost looks like a golden pimp color. Painting looks better, but anodizing is a lot easier than painting.
Why the hell don't we just order the guns in tan in the first place like the SCAR.
Anodized tans and sand colors look wrong to me. Almost looks like a golden pimp color. Painting looks better, but anodizing is a lot easier than painting.
is the SCAR anodized or coated that color?
colored anodize, especially light colors, are very difficult to achieve and still have a durable anodize. the current mil-spec type III hard anodize, last i knew, is actually impossible to dye light colors, as the anodize itself is a charcoal black right out of the vat.
but spray paint costs about $.25 per rifle, and works perfectly fine, so i don't see a problem with it to begin with.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-17-10, 02:12
is the SCAR anodized or coated that color?
colored anodize, especially light colors, are very difficult to achieve and still have a durable anodize. the current mil-spec type III hard anodize, last i knew, is actually impossible to dye light colors, as the anodize itself is a charcoal black right out of the vat.
but spray paint costs about $.25 per rifle, and works perfectly fine, so i don't see a problem with it to begin with.
I've only briefly handled a SCAR and IIRC it is anodized that color. The Sig P226 FDE anodized was FUGGLY and came no where near FDE or Coyote.
Adding a paint line can be really expensive. For comparo I think something like 1/4 of a automotive plant is dedicated to painting, plus a lot of premitting and safety issues. Plus, what kind of anti-corrosive properties are you going to have if you skip the ano step? Black ano plus field application/strippable paint makes sense in the short run since you can optimize for local conditions. Straight from the factory color that can be over coated if needed would be the best solution in the long run.
Paint versus ano also allows you to manage near-IR camo properties too.
i'm not suggesting they be painted at the factory. they should stay mil-spec type III and be kryloned painted at the company level.
The SF team where I am has 2 KAC M110's and they came from the factory in a tan color. It looks very similar to Duracoat.
This shit isn't rocket science. Use Duracoat or Aluma-Hyde as the base coat (like I do on mine) and then Krylon colors for the finishing touches and patterns.
Maybe I need to go back CONUS and get a contract traveling from base to base doing this. 100.00 per weapon and I would be a rich puppy. :)
Nathan_Bell
03-17-10, 13:53
The SF team where I am has 2 KAC M110's and they came from the factory in a tan color. It looks very similar to Duracoat.
This shit isn't rocket science. Use Duracoat or Aluma-Hyde as the base coat (like I do on mine) and then Krylon colors for the finishing touches and patterns.
Maybe I need to go back CONUS and get a contract traveling from base to base doing this. 100.00 per weapon and I would be a rich puppy. :)
Get a good Beltway Bandit proposal writer and you could probably do exactly that as screwed up as the system is. :mad:
soldiersystems
03-19-10, 20:05
Why the hell don't we just order the guns in tan in the first place like the SCAR.
It's coming
FYI, there is Tan CARC, we used on the grizzly when I worked on that project.
As far as small arms. Policy has not changed even though the Army Times article would lead one to believe it had. Like I said, when I got the info in October they were months away and last week LTC Tamilio told me that they were months out.
You know better than to think the government will do anything as fast as they say. ;) Also, I think it was COL Tamilio last time I saw him.
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