View Full Version : Looking for an inexpensive alternative to the Surefire E1B
I have a Surefire E1B (http://www.surefire.com/E1B-Backup) now that I like for the most part. However I'd like something less expensive, and ideally something that carried better bezel-up (yes I know the E1B pocket clip is allegedly bi-directional).
I can't keep up with all these alternate LED companies and the products they offer, so hoping someone that keeps up with these things better than me can help steer me in the right direction here.
Streamlight debuted these at shot, supposed to be out in April. I can't remember if the clip work for you and I can't find a pic that shows it well enough to tell.
http://www.streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=181
Take a look at these.
EagleTac T10C: http://flashlightconnection.com/EagleTac-Flashlights/EagleTac-Tactical-Series-Flashlights/EagleTac-T10C-p301.html
Quark 123 Tactical: http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=297_306&products_id=1652
How about maybe possibly the < Jet I Pro w//IBS v3 (http://bugoutgearusa.com/jetipro.html) >? Hope you find what you're looking for and Enjoy! :cool:
I will suggest a Novatac 85 or 120 series light. NOT the Storm series (offshore) but the original US made lights.
Take a look at these.
Quark 123 Tactical: http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=297_306&products_id=1652
I agree on the Quark 123 Tactical. I have 3 and carry at least one daily and they are both brighter and more 'tactical' in that you don't get low unless you twist the front head. My E1B has been relegated to exactly that, backup in my bag to the Quarks and a RaClicky.
Dennis.
http://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=297_306&osCsid=2b0282bb4fdc3cf86d9c3c46119c499a
Quarks all the way. i love my AA tactical. best UI on the market too.
I notice that the Novatac 120s say something about being programmable. What exactly is programmable about them? and why not the storm?
Rob s, on the 120 & 85 series Novatac lights you can directly program the light levels from the 20+ choices. If you buy a P series light, it comes preset in program mode. If you buy a T or E series you have to do the 250-click hack to access the programming.
My 85T came 'hacked', but I decided since it was a new interface to learn, I did the factory reset to the 85T program and have used that ever since. (on is 85lumens, double click is about 20 lumens IIRC, and double click again is 0.3 lumens. At any time, once on, if you push & hold you get full power strobe.
http://www.cpfreviews.com/NovaTac-EDC120P.php
The Quark 123 Tactical is thinner than the Novatac and has simpler programming in that you can set any 2 modes to come on when the head is loose or tight. I use moonlight and max/turbo, but you can choose between various other levels as well as strobe. So basically you ALWAYS get the same mode when the head is tight/loose and no combination of clicks is going to get you anywhere weird.
That said, my daily carry when carrying IWB instead of just ankle is the RaClicky which is very similar to the Novatac and has more "smart" clicky features that generally work, but sometimes can be confusing although the easy yet somewhat tactical mode switching capabilities and construction of the light makes up for it.
Dennis.
tiger seven
03-15-10, 15:39
A very good friend of mine carries one of these daily, and swears by it. It's been banged around quite a bit but he's never had any problems with it.
https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_69_51&products_id=1933
Having used it a few times myself, it sure seems like a nice light. Small, lightweight and well made.
Derek
I have a EDC Basic 60 made before Novatac took over. I am a surefire nut but thsi is actually my all time favorite carry light. I'll get one made by NOVATAC one of these days as a backup I guess :)
One more light to consider is the Nitecore Extreme: http://goinggear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14_44&products_id=440
Here is a review: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=198804
leaning pretty hard towards one of the Novatacs, except that they don't really seem to offer much in the way of cost savings over the Surefire.
I like the price and reviews of the Quark but can't find a picture of the pocket clip to see if it faces the way I want it to.
Have you looked at Olight?
leaning pretty hard towards one of the Novatacs, except that they don't really seem to offer much in the way of cost savings over the Surefire.
I like the price and reviews of the Quark but can't find a picture of the pocket clip to see if it faces the way I want it to.
The 2x123 Quark has a reversible clip. The 1x123 Tactical Quark sitting in front of me has a LED head UP clip when clipped to a pocket.
Dennis.
it should face either way. just swap the head and tail. the clip is part of the body
This has been a great thread. Thanks to rob_s for starting it and for the responses. I've been in the same position as you, rob. I have an E1B and really like it except for the crenelated bezel and pocket clip, which have torn up some pockets. I just ordered a Quark 123 R5 w/o a pocket clip.
The other problem I'm finding is that many of these lights appear designed to appeal to the light-nerds, not actual users. I do not need SOS, strobe, 756 different lighting levels, two types of controls, a twisting head, programming that requires the assistance of NASA, and enough lumens to melt paint.
Other than the clip and price, I am beginning to appreciate the simplicity of the Surefire. I'd like the switch to operate a little differently (light pressure, light light; high pressure, bright light) but Christ some of these other models are confusing as all get-out with the programming, 5 different settings, etc. I feel like if I tap out "shave and a haircut" on the button they'll start projecting Loony Tunes Cartoons on the wall with Bugs & the whole cast! :p
tiger seven
03-16-10, 09:52
The other problem I'm finding is that many of these lights appear designed to appeal to the light-nerds, not actual users. I do not need SOS, strobe, 756 different lighting levels, two types of controls, a twisting head, programming that requires the assistance of NASA, and enough lumens to melt paint.
Other than the clip and price, I am beginning to appreciate the simplicity of the Surefire. I'd like the switch to operate a little differently (light pressure, light light; high pressure, bright light) but Christ some of these other models are confusing as all get-out with the programming, 5 different settings, etc. I feel like if I tap out "shave and a haircut" on the button they'll start projecting Loony Tunes Cartoons on the wall with Bugs & the whole cast! :p
I agree completely. I actually got rid of a few flashlights because I found they had too many options on them, 90% of which I never used. I like simple hi/lo switching, or at most three levels of output. Beyond that most of these features are superfluous to me.
Derek
I was looking at the options presented too, and ready to actually buy something. The Quarks had/have my interest.
Can someone confirm that I can just have it always come on at "High Output" when I push the button? That's all I want. No strobe or anything else. 100% of the time I want it to come on with one push to full output, is that possible without having an Electrical Engineering degree and a slide rule?
Thanks.
without having an Electrical Engineering degree and a slide rule?
I prefer the abacus. ;)
I do believe that what you are asking is possible on the Quark, but I'm not certain it's that way on all models, or if it applies to the AA version too (the one I'm most interested in because we have AA batteries coming out our ears at home).
I still think the best solution for a pocket light is to have a two-stage switch that you press lightly for the low intensity and press hard for the high intensity. When the chips are down you're going to be gripping the shit out of the thing, and bright is what you're going to get whether you want it or not, but I don't need 200+ lumens to pick up the dog shit at 22:00 in the rain. :D
...but I don't need 200+ lumens to pick up the dog shit at 22:00 in the rain. :D
I bought those Icon Rogues for that, but you have to press it once to see what your output is, then press again if you want to change. It will just flip-flop back each time it's pressed. I bought both the single AA and the double AA versions to test out. For "non-tactical" stuff, I use them.
Problem I see with a pressure switch in sub-$100 light is that it will go TU at a bad time, leaving you with no option but full-on or 1/10th-on, which would be a really m'fer.
Littlelebowski
03-16-10, 11:20
I carry the NiteCore Extreme R2 (http://www.tacticalleds.com/Nitecore-Extreme-R2-p/nitecore-extreme-r2.htm). Works quite well, easy to use, adjustable beam, and I've used it as a hammer and to chip ice. The link I posted is a good deal from a retired LEO in PA's company. I have no financial interest in the company but am just passing on a good deal (it's on sale).
The E1B is 5 lumens and 80 lumens. I don't need much more than 100 lumens truthfully and would rather have the runtime.
Quark specs:
Moonlight: 0.2 lumens for 15 days, (1ma)
Low: 4 OTF lumens for 2.5 days (10ma)
Medium: 22 OTF lumens for 13 hours (50ma)
High: 85 OTF lumens for 2.7 hours (250ma)
Max: 206 OTF lumens for 0.8 hours (700ma)
If I could get a two-position switch, and I don't really care which comes on first, that does low and high only on the Quark, without turning the head, I'd be happier than hell.
It does say that this one has the following controls:
You can also cycle through the Quark's other modes just as easily. Lightly depress the button momentarily (you don't need to 'click' it off) and the output will switch to the next mode. The mode sequence is determined by whether the bezel is tightened or loosened:
Loosened Bezel: Moonlight -> Low -> Medium -> High -> SOS -> Beacon
Tightened Bezel: Max -> Strobe
I might could live with the loosened bezel operation, I think, for my purposes, but I'd sure like to take moonlight, medium SOS, and beacon out of that loop.
they use orings for water proofing so the bezel will resist turning if your worried about it.
use this as a reference when looking for lights.
i can personally recommend the quarks and the jet beams as those are my favorites.
http://flashlightreviews.com/
I carry the NiteCore Extreme R2 (http://www.tacticalleds.com/Nitecore-Extreme-R2-p/nitecore-extreme-r2.htm). Works quite well, easy to use, adjustable beam, and I've used it as a hammer and to chip ice. The link I posted is a good deal from a retired LEO in PA's company. I have no financial interest in the company but am just passing on a good deal (it's on sale).
Third vote here for a Nitecore Extreme. Solid build, size, simplicity, performance, and price. Nuff said.
Third vote here for a Nitecore Extreme. Solid build, size, simplicity, performance, and price. Nuff said.
Anybody got links to any reviews, or preferably videos not in German, of it? Are the head and tail reversible so the clip goes the right way?
http://www.cpfreviews.com/NiteCore-DI-Extreme.php
Older review but decent.
ETA this one with heads up against the Novatac.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=198804
I was looking at the options presented too, and ready to actually buy something. The Quarks had/have my interest.
Can someone confirm that I can just have it always come on at "High Output" when I push the button? That's all I want. No strobe or anything else. 100% of the time I want it to come on with one push to full output, is that possible without having an Electrical Engineering degree and a slide rule?
Thanks.
I know it can be complicated, I have been a serious flashlight geek for 20+ years and I have to do lots of research on new lights to figure out if they offer the usability and UI I want. My bent is absolutely tactical for various on & off duty LE use and training. However, all the geek influence has given us many much better options than we have ever had, and even much of the newest Surefire stuff just seems like take-offs of what is already out there from other various manufacturers. While I still buy the occasional innovative SF light, I see no reason not to take advantage of the new market and buy stuff like the Quark that gives so much capability for a much better price.
I think everyone here wants the Quark TACTICAL model, not the normal one that switches between the various modes with button presses. With the Quark Tactical you can program 2 modes into it and then forget about it forever. One mode comes on when the head is tight and the button is pressed/momentary or clicked/ON. The other mode comes on when the head is loose. This works very well and is arguably more sure to use than the Surefire press light/hard schema (of which I own 4 various models).
Here are various Quark Tactical models, including an AA version:
http://www.4sevens.com/index.php?cPath=297_306
Here are the instructions from the website: It may sound complicated but it is easier than it reads and you only have to do it once, or really not at all if MAX/Low are what you want since they come programmed default!
The Quark Tactical can memorize any two modes of output, from its eight total modes, to be instantly available. These two memorized modes are accessed by either tightening or loosening the head (for example, tight can be Max, and loose can be Low).
Programming Modes:
To have your Quark Tactical memorize a different mode, turn it on and loosen the head by a half-turn. Then, tighten the head at least four times rapidly (twisting it tight, then loose, then tight, etc., four times). After the fourth time, leave the head tight or loose depending which position you want to program.
After three seconds, the light will flash, signaling it is ready to be programmed. Cycle through the eight available modes by clicking the tailcap off and on. The mode sequence is as follows:
Moonlight » Low » Medium » High » Max » SOS » Strobe » Beacon
Once you find your desired mode, leave that mode on for ten seconds and the light will flash again, confirming that the mode has been memorized. To cancel programming before it flashes, turn the light off for three seconds.
Anybody got links to any reviews, or preferably videos not in German, of it? Are the head and tail reversible so the clip goes the right way?
The tailcap is NOT reversible on the Quark Tactical 1x123 light due to the smaller size (so they say). The opening part of the clip faces the tailcap so when clipped to a pocket the LED faces out.
The Quark Tactical 2x123 light DOES have a reversible tailcap.
Dennis.
I just bought a SF LX2 and can't believe how much cheaper some of these options are. Oh well. Live and learn.
While I haven't got any hands on with the particular Quarks lights, I do have a Fenix (at least I think it's a fenix, maybe it's some other chinese light) where the brightness levels are accessed by turning the head, and I frankly hate the ****ing thing. In the case of this light, which is my bedside light, I keep it on the lower setting because the higher setting is also so goddamn bright it washes out the walls and everything else, and if you light that sucker off after having just woken up you can forget about seeing for about a minute, and seeing any detail for a good five. I keep it, and keep it where I do, because it's passable, but all I see when I look at it is a light that is capable of a huge amount of brightness I don't need, with other settings I don't want, in a package that is too big, which means I see it as something I paid too much for.
Which really sums up what I'm trying to get at with all of these nerd lights. I am really and truly coming to believe that I'm better off paying $140 for the L1 than 1/3 the price for a Quark simply because I know it offers the features I want, and only the features I want. It is absolutely nonsensical that I have to pay more to get less, simply because what I want is less.
While I haven't got any hands on with the particular Quarks lights, I do have a Fenix (at least I think it's a fenix, maybe it's some other chinese light) where the brightness levels are accessed by turning the head, and I frankly hate the ****ing thing. In the case of this light, which is my bedside light, I keep it on the lower setting because the higher setting is also so goddamn bright it washes out the walls and everything else, and if you light that sucker off after having just woken up you can forget about seeing for about a minute, and seeing any detail for a good five. I keep it, and keep it where I do, because it's passable, but all I see when I look at it is a light that is capable of a huge amount of brightness I don't need, with other settings I don't want, in a package that is too big, which means I see it as something I paid too much for.
Which really sums up what I'm trying to get at with all of these nerd lights. I am really and truly coming to believe that I'm better off paying $140 for the L1 than 1/3 the price for a Quark simply because I know it offers the features I want, and only the features I want. It is absolutely nonsensical that I have to pay more to get less, simply because what I want is less.
Well it sure sounds like you are trying to talk yourself back into the Surefire :) I can't argue that logic, since I have both and carry an A2L just for that reason of simple, progressive low/high when working. I also have a similar Fenix and it is relegated to emergency kit duty due to it's complexity, or actually flexibility.
While the Quark is smaller and slimmer than a SF L1 and it can be set to only come on at one level all the time, it does NOT have the push soft/hard low/high capability.
Just to confuse you more, check out this well reviewed light that uses a simple adjuster ring and is going for 50% off right now.
http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=93&products_id=1623
Good luck with your light search, try not to hurt yourself attempting to decide...
Dennis.
John_Wayne777
03-17-10, 07:31
Which really sums up what I'm trying to get at with all of these nerd lights. I am really and truly coming to believe that I'm better off paying $140 for the L1 than 1/3 the price for a Quark simply because I know it offers the features I want, and only the features I want. It is absolutely nonsensical that I have to pay more to get less, simply because what I want is less.
That is where I am with flashlights. There are a lot of them out there that do a lot of neat stuff, but for a daily carry light that is to be used in conjunction with a handgun at a particularly dire moment, the last thing I want is complexity. I want a momentary switch that delivers a known amount of light instantly. That's it. I can take that light and use it for other stuff and I frequently do. It's much more difficult, at least in my experience, to take the more feature-laden lights and make them function properly in that moment.
That's one of the primary reasons why all my lights are Surefire. They are expensive (at times way too expensive) but they are generally designed in such a way that they work really good in that critical moment functionality.
Rob, I don't think that the Nitecore NEX is going to fit your needs. I have one and here is my take.
The pocket clip is not reversible nor is the body, so it won’t carry the way you want. The switch is not confidence inspiring but, they do include a spare. The bezel and chunky body is hell on pockets... The head is also a bit big for comfortable carry in some pockets.
I had some initial issues with my Nitecore. On initial inspection the pocket clip screw was loose and evidently stripped out (body not screw). I went ahead and set up the light with a low and max setting, and then sat strobing it on/off and clicking it on/off for a while to check reliability. The light kept entering some sort of undocumented SOS/beacon function and would start slowly flashing by it self unless clicked fully off/on again.
I emailed Nitecore about the SOS problem asking if there was a hidden hack I was accidentally entering with random button presses. They replied not that they were aware of and suggested I return it through the dealer. I returned it through 4Sevens no problem (return shipping on my dime) they were communicative but, it took a while to get a new light.
The head is reported to be compatible with a Surefire E1 body. I couldn’t get it to run reliably with any of 3 different bodies. I would think everything was working great and would sit strobing it on/off for a few minutes and all the sudden get nothing... Fiddle with it and it would work again for a few times then, nothing.
I decided to run it on the Nitecore body. But, honestly it just sits. I should at least throw it in a car or something.
I find the E1b would be ideal if not for the switching. I tried it but after walking through buildings, strobing with movement, I could never predict what light output I was going to get... A soft push- dim light, hard push- bright light would be perfect.
Well it sure sounds like you are trying to talk yourself back into the Surefire.
I can see where it might appear that way, especially since I accuse others of doing the same thing on the cheap end all the time, but I can promise you I am not. I really, REALLY do not want to drop $140 on an L1 or $160 on an LX1 when it comes out. Christ even the E1B I have was a freebie. When I pay for Surefires they are G2s (and I love the G2, even comes in yellow!).
Also, you'll notice there are a lot of other people posting here (at least three so far) that agree with me. We don't want all the geek functions, we just want a light that costs less. For me this is especially true as I'm quite certain this stupid little light is going to wind up falling out of my pocket on one of those 22:00 dog-poop-episodes and be lost for all eternity (did I mention I like the yellow G2s? Lost one green and one black at the range. Thank God they are "cheap").
I think it's typical of many things (including cars and guns) that makers that aren't really in the market with both feet try to make what they think the buyers want based on the feedback of a few enthusiasts. Light nerds like 57 settings, 29 brightness levels, and infinite programming, and they're the ones posting reviews with graphs and charts and battery life and... wait, I need a nap. My eyes glaze over with that shit.
I think that Surefire does so well because they tend to ignore the geeks. They listen to the operators that buy their lights, and the regular guys that aren't going to put them on an oscilloscope and use them to power their flux capacitor, but just want to be able to see in the dark when they need to.
I would LOVE nothing more than for a company to offer a truly competitive product (in function, not in numbers I don't care about) at a reduced price.
Littlelebowski
03-17-10, 09:43
The NiteCore is not that complicated and doesn't cost much more than a G2 LED. If you don't want to look at these other lights, just end the thread and go buy a Surefire.
The NiteCore is not that complicated and doesn't cost much more than a G2 LED. If you don't want to look at these other lights, just end the thread and go buy a Surefire.
Odd. I could have sworn that I just got done saying I DO want to look at the other lights. :confused:
ETA:
Or is this because I don't like your suggestion because it doesn't meet my stated requirements? I asked for bezel up carry, and subsequently asked for simple operation, no rotating heads required. I see that the Nitecore meets neither of these requirements.
Since there appears to be a reading comprehension, or a "rob can't write for shit" problem, let me restate my desires for this light:
two-mode tailcap giving a low-light and high-light choice
no rotating the head to achieve brightness levels
limit to two, or three at most, brightness levels
pocket clip that allows bezel-up carry
less than $100, ideally less than $70
Jay Cunningham
03-17-10, 10:04
Are you sure that you aren't trolling yourself, Rob?
;)
is there a reason for not using the bezel for brightness.
Since there appears to be a reading comprehension, or a "rob can't write for shit" problem, let me restate my desires for this light:
two-mode tailcap giving a low-light and high-light choice
no rotating the head to achieve brightness levels
limit to two, or three at most, brightness levels
pocket clip that allows bezel-up carry
SF E1B. :D
SF E1B. :D
Smartass :p
Alright I'm editing the list.
Are you sure that you aren't trolling yourself, Rob?
;)
I think my two personalities may be fighting each other. ;)
I think part of the reason for my disappointment is that I didn't post this thread without doing at least a small amount of digging first, albeit not much, not what I'd usually do, and no charts were generated! I posted because I just wasn't seeing what I wanted. I keep hoping there's something I'm missing, or someone can point out why I'm wrong to want a simple solution instead of the PHD versions. or at least a PHD version that can be dumbed down to a winder-licker version.
I think I'm going to try to glom a free Surefire Lx1 when they come out. Free is better than cheap any day.
I think my two personalities may be fighting each other. ;)
I think part of the reason for my disappointment is that I didn't post this thread without doing at least a small amount of digging first, albeit not much, not what I'd usually do, and no charts were generated! I posted because I just wasn't seeing what I wanted. I keep hoping there's something I'm missing, or someone can point out why I'm wrong to want a simple solution instead of the PHD versions. or at least a PHD version that can be dumbed down to a winder-licker version.
I think I'm going to try to glom a free Surefire Lx1 when they come out. Free is better than cheap any day.
How about something like http://www.opticsplanet.net/streamlight-protac-1l-tactical-light-with-white-led.html
How about something like http://www.opticsplanet.net/streamlight-protac-1l-tactical-light-with-white-led.html
Mentioned in the second post in the thread, but not out yet apparently?
Maybe I need to glom one of those too and do a comparison! :D
Mentioned in the second post in the thread, but not out yet apparently?
Maybe I need to glom one of those too and do a comparison! :D
Ooops. Missed that. You are correct they are not out yet but if they debut at $45.00 it might be worth picking up regardless.
Ooops. Missed that. You are correct they are not out yet but if they debut at $45.00 it might be worth picking up regardless.
I strongly agree!
I keep hoping... someone can point out why I'm wrong to want a simple solution instead of the PHD versions.
Have you seen what happens when the PhD version hits 88 miles per hour?
John_Wayne777
03-17-10, 14:03
That Nitecore SR3 thing looked interesting...so I ordered it. Here's hoping that it blows me away.
With the Quark Tactical you can program 2 modes into it and then forget about it forever. One mode comes on when the head is tight and the button is pressed/momentary or clicked/ON. The other mode comes on when the head is loose. This works very well and is arguably more sure to use than the Surefire press light/hard schema (of which I own 4 various models).
Sold! I am going to buy one and see how I like it. Thanks.
Since there appears to be a reading comprehension, or a "rob can't write for shit" problem, let me restate my desires for this light:
two-mode tailcap giving a low-light and high-light choice
no rotating the head to achieve brightness levels
limit to two, or three at most, brightness levels
pocket clip that allows bezel-up carry
less than $100, ideally less than $70
Given your list, I think you are only going to have a couple choices:
1. Lights that switch mode from clicking ON/OFF and aren't all that tactical. E1B, Fenix, etc...
2. Surefire low/high tailcap pressure. L1, LX2, A2, A2L, A2Z, E2D, etc.. Expensive though, maybe find a used one?
3. More complex and almost tactical one button switching Novatac or RaClicky. Novatac may be in your price range. Again, find an older model used one since max brightness isn't your need?
Other than that, no simple choices given your requirements.
The part I think you don't understand is that the light nerd/geek market IS the driving force here and what makes it even possible for you to find anything other than Surefire. The light geeks were NOT being served by SF so people starting making stuff for them. We tactical geeks are now upset that the light geeks aren't making stuff for us, even though they label everything as tactical for marketing purposes. Then to throw price limits on top of that when we decry the use of cheap AR components just makes it even more impossible to find a light.
I am a tactical AND light geek, and nobody has made a perfect light for me yet. Surefire has come close and promises a lot, but has not fully delivered yet, and some of their new stuff just looks like what the light geek companies have already released, making SF look like johnny come-latelies to the industry they created.
Dennis.
First, apologies in advance because I have not read most of the thread.
Right now, my EDC light is a 4Sevens Quark 123 Tactical (no clip). This will not meet rob_s's requirements, but it's been a good -- though not great -- light so far. It's very light and extremely easy to program. Personally, I very much like the "twisted head" mode selection because it means I never have to worry about whether my fingers will spasmodically send the light into an unwanted mode. E.g., while I normally leave it in strobe mode, it's nice to push it over to medium-constant when going through airport security, etc., so it won't draw as much attention.
It may not be as durable as some more expensive lights -- too early to tell, it sure isn't as solid feeling -- but for half the price and about half the size/weight I suppose you could actually carry two if you were that worried about it.
The clicky button is not nearly as good as the Novatac & Ra lights. The Novatac and Ra allow you to press & hold the button as hard as you want without clicking. The 4Sevens Quark only does momentary if you are light on the pressure. So under stress, you're almost certain to click the thing into ON mode and then need to press it again to get it OFF. I'm sure there is a technical term for the difference between the two types of tail switches, but the Novatac/Ra version is a big advantage IMHO.
Novatac sent me a 120P last year and it was a very good light. I'd still be using it except it got misplaced one night at the range. The biggest problem I had with the Novatac -- except for the fact that the belt clip sucked fetid dingo kidneys -- was that it let you know the power was going out by flicking through all its different modes. So when you wanted to use it, if the juice was low you'd look like a Christmas tree.
Ra sent me one of their Clicky lights when I lost the Novatac, and it was also a (mostly) great light. Belt clip sucked fetid dingo kidneys. Biggest problem was that, no matter what I tried, I could not get the thing programmed the way I wanted. Also, like the Novatac, it tells you "my battery is low" by flickering through various output modes. Unlike the Novatac, it continues to do this even after you try to turn it off. I discovered this during a Hackathorn class last year, when it became quite amusing to watch me doing the stealthy ninja-in-the-dark thing with a flashlight I couldn't get to shut off until I ripped it open and dumped the battery out.
Surefire makes fantastic lights, but they were without a strobe feature for so long that they've swallowed their own marketing kool aide and adopted a corporate culture against the concept. Now that customers are demanding the capability, their offerings require a particularly lame triple-tap activation to get into strobe mode.
I completely agree with ToddG's comments and I should add that I have dropped my 4 Quarks on concrete from waist height several times with no issues so far, although they do feel lighter than my other 1cell LED's which I suppose can be a good thing!
My EDC is a RaClicky with its incredible soft touch smart momentary switch that "senses" by how long you click whether you want momentary or constant on, with a quick double click for strobe and other non-accidental clicks for lower modes. This works about 95% of the time until you start doing many quick peek/light type actions in a row and you can get screwed up. You just have to adapt your tactics to it. A compromise, just like all the other lights.
I carried a SF A2 and now an A2L on duty for tactical sneaking and peeking but even the press a little/press a lot switch is hard to keep on low for a long time and requiring many twists for constant on. Also a compromise.
I believe the best compromise so far has been the Gladius, with it's easily switchable rotating tailcap, especially with some skate tape applied. It's just sorta big nowadays and behind the LED curve.
Some sort of combination of one handed easily operable rotating switch combined with a smooth push and gets brighter switch WITH a click at the end for constant ON might be the best case we can hope for. The problem is we want to control at least 3 separate functions with a simple switch: Momentary On/Off, Constant On/Off, and Brightness. It becomes 4 if you want Strobe.
We need a light with ESP...
Dennis.
Someone sent me a 6P once for me to play with that had a bulb & tail from TNVC (http://tnvc.com/items/illumination_tools/muli_tc.html). The tailcp had two buttons, one at the end and one on the side. I don't completely recall the operation but I liked the arrangement well enough. Having the combination of two buttons means you could do at least thee things (one button, or the other button, or both).
In general I tend to view lights in a similar way to how I view knives. It needs to work first as an every day tool. Boring things like picking up dog shit, looking for lost kid's toys, etc. Yes, obviously I want it to work in a "tactical" situation but, just like a knife, I'll use it thousands of times for mundane tasks before I ever use it in a fight.
I'm going to wait for the Streamlight and the LX2, and to hear what Shivan has to say about the Quark Tactical.
Sold! I am going to buy one and see how I like it. Thanks.
its a great light.
http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=41791
http://www.lonewolfdist.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=41791
Can I install just the extension?!:D
Adjusts to two sizes, compact (2 batteries) or larger (3 batteries) with removable extension (included)
Right now, my EDC light is a 4Sevens Quark 123 Tactical (no clip). This will not meet rob_s's requirements, but it's been a good -- though not great -- light so far. It's very light and extremely easy to program. Personally, I very much like the "twisted head" mode selection because it means I never have to worry about whether my fingers will spasmodically send the light into an unwanted mode.
It may not be as durable as some more expensive lights -- too early to tell, it sure isn't as solid feeling -- but for half the price and about half the size/weight I suppose you could actually carry two if you were that worried about it.
I just received today a Quark 123 Tactical R5. With the exception of the preferred modes and tailcap gripe (see below), my initial impressions are the same. Looks like my E1B is in imminent danger of going bye-bye.
E.g., while I normally leave it in strobe mode, it's nice to push it over to medium-constant when going through airport security, etc., so it won't draw as much attention.
Well, stop blasting the TSA wonks in the face with the strobe and it won't draw so much attention. :p Have you actually been asked to function check your light? I've been traveling with a small light for years, domestic and international, and have never had anyone ask me to turn it on.
The clicky button is not nearly as good as the Novatac & Ra lights. The Novatac and Ra allow you to press & hold the button as hard as you want without clicking. The 4Sevens Quark only does momentary if you are light on the pressure. So under stress, you're almost certain to click the thing into ON mode and then need to press it again to get it OFF. I'm sure there is a technical term for the difference between the two types of tail switches, but the Novatac/Ra version is a big advantage IMHO.
Maybe they changed their cap design. The one on mine is actually more firm than the one on my E1B. Is your light the R5 version?
Can I install just the extension?!:D
Does it add girth, or just length?
Well, stop blasting the TSA wonks in the face with the strobe and it won't draw so much attention. :p Have you actually been asked to function check your light? I've been traveling with a small light for years, domestic and international, and have never had anyone ask me to turn it on.
Maybe half a dozen times over the past ten years. When it's strobed, though, they start asking questions.
Maybe they changed their cap design. The one on mine is actually more firm than the one on my E1B. Is your light the R5 version?
Yes, R5. The button is firm, it's just not as "smart" as the Novatac/Ra button. Those know the difference between hold and click. So it's not about how much force you apply, but rather how long you hold the button down. It's a much better solution than trying to control thumb pressure.
Someone sent me a 6P once for me to play with that had a bulb & tail from TNVC (http://tnvc.com/items/illumination_tools/muli_tc.html). The tailcp had two buttons, one at the end and one on the side. I don't completely recall the operation but I liked the arrangement well enough. Having the combination of two buttons means you could do at least thee things (one button, or the other button, or both).
Here is a light with similar two button UI that works pretty good, and has various length and both primary and rechargeable battery options. I carry one on my vest for general light duties when working.
Too big for an EDC light, but not all that much bigger than a SF 9P 3 cell light.
http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=86&products_id=1488&osCsid=5b53af90eccdd44c74590c6931d268eb
Go to order the Quark AA Tactical and it's out of stock. Damn my luck.:(
Go to order the Quark AA Tactical and it's out of stock. Damn my luck.:(
Nuts! You were supposed to be my guinea pig! :p
going gear . com is where i get all my flash light stuff. good prices email him if your a mil or le
Nuts! You were supposed to be my guinea pig! :p
Found a company in Virginia that claims to have one in stock. So I ordered it. Hope they really have it.
Go to order the Quark AA Tactical and it's out of stock. Damn my luck.:(
I was in the market for a new torch (to go along with my new pitchfork) and ordered the Quark (sans clip) thanks to this thread. Is Dennis getting a percentage? He seems to be selling a lot of lights! :rolleyes: It showed back ordered when I bought it, but I got an e-mail update ten minutes later saying it's shipped. Looks like a nice light, and if it turns itself on in my pocket less than my Insight H2X I'll be quite happy with it.
LOL I bought one off ebay on the strength of this thread (used for an hour, decent discount from new - yay me!).
I was in the market for a new torch (to go along with my new pitchfork) and ordered the Quark (sans clip) thanks to this thread. Is Dennis getting a percentage? He seems to be selling a lot of lights! :rolleyes: It showed back ordered when I bought it, but I got an e-mail update ten minutes later saying it's shipped. Looks like a nice light, and if it turns itself on in my pocket less than my Insight H2X I'll be quite happy with it.
Dennis BUYS a lot of lights and is trying to sucker others into sharing in his joy/pain :p
I just got the Nitecore SR3 with a twist ring for level selection for 50% off, and while bulky for a 1 cell light, seems very simple and easy to use.
Dennis.
I got the Quark AA Tactical today. For $63 shipped it's a great light. Obviously this is with only 5 hours playing with it. No idea about battery life yet, but output on MAX looks similar to a factory G2L, but obviously with the great benefit of using a single AA battery versus two CR123's.
The Quark Tactical's UI is exactly what I wanted, where it gives me max output with just a single press, after configuration. Added bonus is that with just a minor twist of the head, it gives me a secondary output -- perfect.
My only issue with it, and I guess it's the trade-off for the primary/secondary configurable outputs is that I can not access the other six modes without programming them in to either the primary or secondary slot.
There is no way that I see to have primary and secondary programmed as MAX & Moonlight, then get strobe if I need it RFN. Non issue for me, but should be mentioned.
I will be getting the Quark Tactical AAČ for sure, that's how much I like the Quark Tactical AA.
Thanks for the review. Keep us posted. At the price it may be worth getting one, although I'm pretty sure I'm going to wait for the Streamlight that's going to be even another $20 less. Like you, I am especially tempted by the AA operation.
I got the Quark AA Tactical today. For $63 shipped it's a great light. Obviously this is with only 5 hours playing with it. No idea about battery life yet, but output on MAX looks similar to a factory G2L, but obviously with the great benefit of using a single AA battery versus two CR123's.
The Quark Tactical's UI is exactly what I wanted, where it gives me max output with just a single press, after configuration. Added bonus is that with just a minor twist of the head, it gives me a secondary output -- perfect.
My only issue with it, and I guess it's the trade-off for the primary/secondary configurable outputs is that I can not access the other six modes without programming them in to either the primary or secondary slot.
There is no way that I see to have primary and secondary programmed as MAX & Moonlight, then get strobe if I need it RFN. Non issue for me, but should be mentioned.
I just received the single CR123 version of this light and would say exactly the same thing. I'd add that (i) it's a bit of a PIA to program and (ii) to my uneducated eye, Max seems to be pretty damn bright and far-reaching (just ask my neighbors). Oh, and resist the temptation to look at it directly, just the once, to see how bright it really is.
John_Wayne777
03-23-10, 12:12
That Nitecore SR3 thing looked interesting...so I ordered it. Here's hoping that it blows me away.
Ok, so the dum-dum above bought that SR3 thing to give it a try...and it sucks. I can't use it with the Rogers technique because the way they have the darn button arranged sucks, to borrow ToddG's verbiage, "fetid dingo kidneys".
Ok, so the dum-dum above bought that SR3 thing to give it a try...and it sucks. I can't use it with the Rogers technique because the way they have the darn button arranged sucks, to borrow ToddG's verbiage, "fetid dingo kidneys".
Yay, more royal food tasters! :p
What, exactly, is wrong with the button setup?
I just received the single CR123 version of this light and would say exactly the same thing. I'd add that (i) it's a bit of a PIA to program and (ii) to my uneducated eye, Max seems to be pretty damn bright and far-reaching (just ask my neighbors). Oh, and resist the temptation to look at it directly, just the once, to see how bright it really is.
I received my Quark 123 R5 yesterday as well, and my initial impressions are very good also. I didn't find it difficult to program at all. In fact the only draw back I see is having to chose two modes of operation when we all really want three, as was mentioned earlier in the thread. It'll be hard not to buy a dozen others to put in every drawer, tool box, and range bag I own! :D
Hey Dennis, have you tried to mount one of these to a rifle yet? I really like the size of the 123, and think it might work well on my carbine. Just wondering how they might hold up under repeated recoil. I'd be willing to try it myself, but I don't shoot enough to give it a good torture test style of evaluation.
Ok, so the dum-dum above bought that SR3 thing to give it a try...and it sucks. I can't use it with the Rogers technique because the way they have the darn button arranged sucks, to borrow ToddG's verbiage, "fetid dingo kidneys".
Do you mean you cannot change turn the power level ring when using Rogers? Because it seems the tailcap and cigar ring are in the traditional places.
Anyways, I use Harries and this wasn't an EDC for me but more of a very useful rechargeable general use light given the 50% sale.
Dennis.
I received my Quark 123 R5 yesterday as well, and my initial impressions are very good also. I didn't find it difficult to program at all. In fact the only draw back I see is having to chose two modes of operation when we all really want three, as was mentioned earlier in the thread. It'll be hard not to buy a dozen others to put in every drawer, tool box, and range bag I own! :D
Hey Dennis, have you tried to mount one of these to a rifle yet? I really like the size of the 123, and think it might work well on my carbine. Just wondering how they might hold up under repeated recoil. I'd be willing to try it myself, but I don't shoot enough to give it a good torture test style of evaluation.
Others have mounted the tactical models with no issues, yet... I would expect it to do as fine as any other LED light, which is to say fine. It should fit into the newer VTAC light mounts that include an E2 size spacer. However, I am holding out for a dedicated VLTOR scout type mount.
Dennis.
John_Wayne777
03-23-10, 18:54
Yay, more royal food tasters! :p
What, exactly, is wrong with the button setup?
The main activation button is set up wrong. The travel between the momentary setting and the click on setting is short, which means that if you hit the button you're likely to click it on. On something like the Surefire E2E the button travel is longer, requiring a very deliberate action to engage the click on. The little pushback ring they have on the SR3 is WAY too close to the button, which keeps you from getting a decent purchase to pull it back into the hand like you are supposed to with the Rogers technique. The button is also stiff, making it difficult to activate using the Rogers technique, and unlike Surefires you can't adjust the tailcap to vary the sensitivity of the activation.
The combination of those factors makes it basically impossible to use in the Rogers technique.
The light construction actually appears to be very high quality:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/532e1840.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/49c17b30.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/850eadb3.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/629692ea.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/60f71fff.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/b3ec3f0e.jpg
The controls make no sense. Activating the strobe mode requires a priest, apparently, as I cannot get it to consistently activate the same way more than a couple of times. Sometimes it requires turning the adjustment ring back and forth quickly between the brightest and lowest position, and other times it engages if a ring hits the right notch. You would also think that the adjustment ring is sequential...proceeding from lowest to highest settings when turned clockwise. It doesn't. At the left-most position it goes from bright to brighter to brightest to strobe (sometimes) and then to the lowest setting and on up to a medium setting at the last point on the ring.
Also, no surprise, their lumen ratings are the typical FUBAR non-Surefire way of measuring things. Their "220 lumens" is as bright as a Surefire G2 with a factory LED upgrade, although it is brighter than the E2E with an incandescent bulb on the right setting.
This is an example of something I've said many times:
Features can never trump design. The SR3 is a well-made light, but the design problems that become apparent when you try to use it make it useless for my purposes. Surefire's design is better thought out and geared more toward my preferences in a light. I fully understand that others may have different requirements and needs. Personally I want a light I can use in conjunction with a handgun. Yes, I'll use it for lots of other things, but that's the critical requirement for me in a daily carry light. So far I have yet to find a light maker whose products are as easy to use in that role as a Surefire handheld.
Whoa, that Nitecore is way big.
John_Wayne777
03-23-10, 19:39
It probably looks bigger than it is thanks to the cell phone pics and the crappy photographer. The SR3 is as big around as a Surefire G2, albeit considerably shorter since it only uses one battery.
The Nitecore IS big for a 1 cell 123 light and that precludes not only pocket use but even belt carry for me. I also absolutely agree that regardless of how "cool" or "advanced" a light is if the UI doesn't work for you then it's not really that cool...
Some Nitecore notes:
- The clicky is actually rather stiff and slightly harder to use than a SF clicky. However, I do see your point vs. SF twisty tailcaps. The cigar ring is very close to the tail and works much better for Harries than Rogers.
- Mine works very consistently from low to high, maybe yours has an issue?
- To enable/disable the strobe mode you turn it ON, and rotate the dial from max to min to max within 3 seconds. This enables/disables the strobe mode being in the last position on the dial. This puts max in the second to last position. (RTFM :p)
- It is absolutely much brighter/puts out more light than a SF G2 P60L and this is very apparent when doing distance shots outdoors or ceiling bounce tests to measure overall light output. Subjectively I would easily say 2x brighter if not more. The P60L is probably up to SF reliability and compatibility standards but is a very inefficient, non-heat sinked LED that is nowhere as bright as it should be.
I own many, many, many nice flashlights and keep buying more, but my bump in the night light is a 10+ year old, smooth sided, SF 6Z with original non-lockout twisty tailcap that fits my hand perfectly. (albeit with a Malkoff M60WF LED drop in.)
Dennis.
This is a little tangential to this thread, but I found a good source for 123 batteries cheap last year and thought I'd share. I think they've shown a marginally lower run time than the "name brands" but at 30 to 50% of the cost they're a bargain. :)
http://www.cr123batteries.com/
Sorry for the thread necro, but has any decisions been made on the replacement?
If anyone's looking for a Novatac 85T, Lighthound has them for 59.99.
http://www.lighthound.com/NovaTac-EDC-85T--Tactical-Multi-Output-1-Cell-lithium-flashlight-with-SSC-LED--HA-III-Black-Finish_p_1339.html
Sorry for the thread necro, but has any decisions been made on the replacement?
My E1B has officially been replaced by the Quark 123 R5. I'm planning to obtain a couple more.
Sorry for the thread necro, but has any decisions been made on the replacement?
I'm just going to wait for the Surefire with the switching I want.
I'm either too smart or too stupid to see the value in all these other brands. :D
And the thread keeps going... I received one of the Novatac 85T's today and this is a great deal for the price. Rob you may want to reconsider other than the lack of bezel up carry. Made in the USA and you can order a pair for under $120 shipped from Lighthound and to me it is an ideal, less expensive replacement for my E1B. I like the simplicity, the factory programming is fine and uncomplicated. It's gives me choices like my E1B/L1 but a lot handier and more easily operated.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/spenceinva/cameraspence82009042.jpg
You CAN carry the Novatac bezel up. Just use the mousepad to unscrew the bezel ring and put the clip ring in its place and then rescrew on the bezel ring.
You CAN carry the Novatac bezel up. Just use the mousepad to unscrew the bezel ring and put the clip ring in its place and then rescrew on the bezel ring.
Yeah, what he said. I liked this light so much (Novatac 85T) that I bought another. With the deal from Lighthound on free shipping over $75 and the CPF discount I got another 85T and a Novatac P HA III flat switch for $78. Attached is a pic showing the new 85T with the flat switch alongside a regular 85t, an Olight T10 and the E1B. I like the flat switch, negates the worry of it coming on in my pocket (I'm not a big fan of flashlight pocket clips). At a match this past weekend playing with it in the shoothouse, the Thorpe technique is still viable with the flat switch.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/spenceinva/cameraspence82009045.jpg
Since the Novatac and the Quark are the same price, is one preferred over the other and for what reasons?
ColdDeadHands
04-22-10, 06:18
Streamlight debuted these at shot, supposed to be out in April. I can't remember if the clip work for you and I can't find a pic that shows it well enough to tell.
http://www.streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=181
Ditto that. Looks like a excellent light and doesn't cost an arm and a leg like the Surefire.
Since the Novatac and the Quark are the same price, is one preferred over the other and for what reasons?
The Novatac has a more complicated UI but also allows you to change levels intelligently through the button, and pretty quickly access strobe.
The Quark is significantly slimmer, lighter, and simpler to use with only two levels chosen by loosening or tightening the head.
I have both a RaClicky (very similar to Novatac) and a Quark 1x123. I carry my RaClicky on my belt for regular clothes EDC. I carry the Quark pocket carry when in dress clothes or traveling overseas and using alternate weapon carry methods.
Dennis.
Thanks Dennis, that helped. Sounds like the Quark is for me, KISS method.
Since the Novatac and the Quark are the same price, is one preferred over the other and for what reasons?
The Quark AA Tactical uses any standard AA battery, or rechargeable.
The Quark AA Tactical uses any standard AA battery, or rechargeable.
Thanks, even better! Looks like the TV remote is getting burglarized ;)
Just to point out that maybe you're referring to the Novatac P series? Cause to me, it just doesn't get simpler than the Novatac T series. No programming required and everything is available one handed, no head twisting needed. You can scroll through the 3 brightness levels in a couple of seconds. But if AA floats your boat the Quark looks like a good option.
Just to point out that maybe you're referring to the Novatac P series? Cause to me, it just doesn't get simpler than the Novatac T series. No programming required and everything is available one handed, no head twisting needed. You can scroll through the 3 brightness levels in a couple of seconds. But if AA floats your boat the Quark looks like a good option.
From this long thread already, I would guess that simple means different things to different people.... Also the size/weight of the 1x123 Quark is significantly less. Even the 1xAA version is still slimmer and lighter than a Novatac.
Dennis.
From this long thread already, I would guess that simple means different things to different people.... Also the size/weight of the 1x123 Quark is significantly less. Even the 1xAA version is still slimmer and lighter than a Novatac.
Dennis.
Dude tell the truth, it's at least 1/2 inch longer:D
That said, I'm ordering a Quark just for grins. I have an Olight T10/15 that I carried off & on for a couple of years and like a lot, it just doesn't have a momentary on. AA is convenient & easy to find. This whole flashlight thing is starting to be like knives and watches.
Dude tell the truth, it's at least 1/2 inch longer:D
Well I didn't want to brag... :p
You can scroll through the 3 brightness levels in a couple of seconds. But if AA floats your boat the Quark looks like a good option.
This UI was an absolute deal breaker for me. I have the Icon Rogue and even with just two brightness levels, selectable by repeated clicking, I hate it. I relegated those lights to office, and drawer duty for the wife.
Layman's review with some good comparison photos of the 123 VS AA versions. http://www.laymanslights.venturous.org/blog/2009/06/4sevens-quark-aa/
Are there any advantages to using the 123 over the AA other than reduced length? I'm a light dummy :) And when vaspence said this is turning into a watch/knife thread he's right on the money.
More in depth here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=235869
Video on how to program: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtrg1ivqJtg&feature=player_embedded#!
...
Are there any advantages to using the 123 over the AA other than reduced length? I'm a light dummy :)
...
With the Quark the 123 has higher lumen output 206 vs 109
With the Quark the 123 has higher lumen output 206 vs 109
Wouldn't that blind yourself off of white walls inside a house, building, etc? I'd always read that anything over 110'ish, if memory serves me correctly, was too much for inside work.
Wouldn't that blind yourself off of white walls inside a house, building, etc? I'd always read that anything over 110'ish, if memory serves me correctly, was too much for inside work.
Nope. Well, it might be different for everyone but foe me I need to get into the 300++ range and hit a shiny wall just right for it to matter.
The AA Quark will be easier to find batteries for and if you already have rechargeable AA's then you are good to go. The 123 is brighter and if you have a ready supply of them already or want to invest in rechargeable li-ion then I would prefer it for size/power considerations.
Dennis.
Wouldn't that blind yourself off of white walls inside a house, building, etc? I'd always read that anything over 110'ish, if memory serves me correctly, was too much for inside work.
I thought more lumens were better until I got up one night, grabbed my Jap-brand light, light up the room, and damn near saw stars. It stays on the "low" setting now.
With the Quark the 123 has higher lumen output 206 vs 109
Wouldn't that blind yourself off of white walls inside a house, building, etc? I'd always read that anything over 110'ish, if memory serves me correctly, was too much for inside work.
Depends upon how big your inside spaces are. If you spend most of your time clearing 10x10 ghetto cribs, you may not need that much light. If you spend your time in the ancestral manse (like me ;) ), you may need more light to shine across the ballroom.
The AA Quark will be easier to find batteries for and if you already have rechargeable AA's then you are good to go.
I'm finding 123's just about everywhere now. Granted, AA's are more plentiful but, I've not had problems getting 123's anywhere I've needed them.
I thought more lumens were better until I got up one night, grabbed my Jap-brand light, light up the room, and damn near saw stars. It stays on the "low" setting now.
Ha! Big difference between when you're going from a lighted space into a darkened space while using your light as opposed to waking up at 03:00 and flicking on the lights. :eek:
Picked up one of the Quark AA
It's damn good for me. I use a light quite often at work (mechanical/HVAC estimator). I keep it on the brighter setting in case I really wanted to grab it and light something up quickly. For the regular usage, I just give it a twist and use the low setting. I think it was worth every bit of the $57 I paid for it. Will likely sell off my G2s and get another one of these.
If I understand this correctly, you have to buy a Novatac at "full price" (meaning $99 for the Storm) to get a second for $20?
Wouldn't you be better off buying two at $55/ea?
http://www.novatac.com/offers/20light2010offer/20LightVoucher.pdf
toasterlocker
05-02-10, 21:10
Check out the Jetbeam RRT-0. It has more modes than you want, but the control ring is extremely intuitive and easier to use than twisting a head or cycling through modes by clicking.
LockenLoad
05-02-10, 22:46
you could get the ryobi rechargeable, about 60 to 80 lumen's, not to bright to blind you, rechargeable, a little more bulky than you may want, tough little light for around the house, and you don't run yourself poor on batteries. For around the house the one we have has been great.
G34Shooter
05-05-10, 16:52
I carry the NiteCore Extreme R2 (http://www.tacticalleds.com/Nitecore-Extreme-R2-p/nitecore-extreme-r2.htm). Works quite well, easy to use, adjustable beam, and I've used it as a hammer and to chip ice. The link I posted is a good deal from a retired LEO in PA's company. I have no financial interest in the company but am just passing on a good deal (it's on sale).
I usually carry the same Nitecore or LX2
Fenix ... plenty of models/options to choose from and very reasonably priced.
faithmyeyes
05-20-10, 14:59
I've been using the Quark lights for a while now and have found them to be a solid choice. I'd like to see a hybrid between the Tactical and Regular UI that would let you step through all the modes in one bezel position, and have the other bezel position programmable with your RFN choice.
One of the cool things about the Quarks is that you can interchange all the pieces. If you buy an AA Tactical, you can put that same head on a 1xAA, 2xAA, 1xCR123, or rechargeable 14650 body (If you want a 2xCR123 body, you need a higher-voltage head). There's also a couple of different tailcaps to choose from.
Right now they're offering a limited run of lights with warm-white LEDs that are supposed to be closer to incandescent color temperature. I don't know if I'd care about that for a weapon light, but in the woods at night the warmer light is a lot easier on the eyes and makes it easier to accurately perceive color. I've got the 2xAA version of this waiting in the mailbox at home that I'm looking forward to evaluating.
Landchipper
07-18-10, 07:59
Great duscussion guys, thanks.
I got the NovTac 120T when BOTAC had them for $100, and the stimulus discount brought them to $85. I like that the first push and hold takes it immediately to 120 lumens and it goes off as soon as you let it go. Everything else takes multiple clicks and is not hard to learn. I don't want to twist anything to change a setting. I carry one clipped at the top of my pocket daily. I also have one on my carbine in a VTAC mount; "light" and powerful = good.
I use a handheld 120T to sweep my yard at night for the bufo toads that my Golden Retriever insists on playing with, even though they make him sick. it's amazing how the little light is powerful at the center, yet lights up the entire yard enough to let me see the "intruders".
The negative=run time at 120 lumens is an hour. I like the shelf life and size of the 123s though. It powers down to the next level when the CR123 battery is dying so there is warning.
There are so many good choices now in reasonably priced lights that it's hard to go wrong. The 120T is a good choice that works well for me.
120T and VTAC, since moved to the top rail with light at 11:00:
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h264/DWood13/AR15/DSC_1348.jpg
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