View Full Version : Raven Concealment Holster Opinions! (see new thread)
I have been looking at new CCW holster options. I prefer IWB carry and have been looking at the Raven Concealment Holsters pretty hard.
My questions is, for those of you who use a Raven for IWB carry, what type of attachments did you go with to hook it to your belt? I was looking at the tuckable offset belt loops, but am curious as to if that will make it more or less bulky. Comfort is the number one key here.
Thanks in advace for all of your help, as always!
Shane
Alpha Sierra
03-15-10, 17:12
Uncomfortable and rides too high. I tried it and sold it within a month.
Much happier with leather.
I asked the same question recently
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=43573
maybe some helpful info for you.
I like my Raven Phantom LC. I can easily conceal my M&P9 long with TLR-1. I use a soft loop in the rear and a normal IWB plastic clip up front. Allows for a little more forward cant. It's not perfect, but it's also very versatile in terms of modes of carry and allows for good draws/reholsters. I don't care for leather IWB as it tends to flatten without the gun in there (even the good ones).
I do have to wear an undershirt when carrying IWB, however I do that anyways so it's not a big deal for me. I also carry it OWB often. Have a similar setup for my Glock 17, too.
Jay Cunningham
03-15-10, 17:33
I think that they are one of the better options for IWB. I think that there are better options for OWB.
NCPatrolAR
03-15-10, 18:25
I think that they are one of the better options for IWB. I think that there are better options for OWB.
Interesting...I actually think the exact opposite.
I only use my RCS holsters for IWB when I'm concealing a pistol with a light attached. Other than that, the RCS is worn OWB using the belt slide attachments. When using the RCS IWB, I tend stick with the overhooks.
My preferred CCW holster is the Comp-Tac CTAC. Its the most comfortable concealment holster I've tried so far.
Uncomfortable and rides too high. I tried it and sold it within a month.
Much happier with leather.
Same here (except I still have mine)
The newer thicker kydex holsters definitely seem far more durable than the early generations of holsters. I have no fear of running, diving, or generally beating the snot out of my RCS phantom during training now that i have a thicker kydex option.
I have a ghost holster made out of the thinner kydex and while i havent had a problem to date it still feels very thin.
I have yet to run the phantom IWB since i primarily bought the holster as an OWB option.
I plan on ordering a second holster for my compact with a bit more cant for CC.
Uncomfortable and rides too high. I tried it and sold it within a month.
Much happier with leather.
I hear where you're coming from. I got to wear mine for an extended period of time this last weekend under an untucked t-shirt. It rubbed my side til my skin was red.
I still like the holster, but it's definitely not to be worn without a clothing item between it and your skin for very long.
I have no fear of running, diving, or generally beating the snot out of my RCS phantom during training now that i have a thicker kydex option.
Interesting. The first thing I observed when I got my phantom was how thin the Holster panels were.
I've cracked uncle mikes and Safariland plastic holsters, but the Phantom is a completely different design. Phantom seems to have a good reputation so far, so I'm not worried about the thin walled design. The standard belt loops are really thick though.
Powder_Burn
03-15-10, 18:55
I recently purchased a Phantom LC with J-hooks for IWB carry and will be selling it. Raven quality and service are tip-top but in my case, the curve of my hip is much more aggressive than the flatter curve of the holster. This causes an annoying 3/4" to 1" gap between my hip and the back of each J-hook which I find unacceptable. I used a heat gun to tighten up the radius of the curve and it helped but did not resolve the issue. Final verdict is an MTAC for IWB M&P9c carry. I will likely buy another Phantom LC for OWB carrying my full size M&P when training. For IWB concealed carry, I would look elsewhere...
wicked_police
03-15-10, 19:06
I find the Raven terrific for OWB with my G19. I'd like to get one for a G19(or maybe 17) w/light next.
Is anyone from Raven on the board? Ive been trying to get a hold of them through the websites for months for work, but no one is getting back to me.......
I will likely buy another Phantom LC for OWB carrying my full size M&P when training. For IWB concealed carry, I would look elsewhere...
Isn't the holster the same anyway? Or are you buying a different holster for a different size gun?
I tried the Raven for OWB use, having been told repeatedly that it concealed just as well as a good leather pancake. It doesn't. It does conceal well for an OWB kydex rig (better than any other kydex OWB I've tried), but it's nowhere near as good at concealment as a good leather holster. It is a reasonably good option for concealed carry with an attached light, however - better than any leather holster I've tried.
For IWB, I prefer the FIST #1K - it really adds minimal width or weight to the pistol, and the belt clip is hell for strong. I've transitioned to this holster for all my IWB carry at this point. The exterior surface of the holster is very easy on the skin, though I nearly always wear a t-shirt under an over shirt - as much to protect the pistol from my sweaty love handles as to protect them from the holster...
Regards,
Kevin
I tried one out for a G19 a few years ago, and I did not like it at all. I tried all the attachments but could not conceal my G19 worth a flip. With that said, everything from Raven is well made, and they are great to deal with.
adrenaline151
03-15-10, 19:42
I find the Raven terrific for OWB with my G19. I'd like to get one for a G19(or maybe 17) w/light next.
Is anyone from Raven on the board? Ive been trying to get a hold of them through the websites for months for work, but no one is getting back to me.......
Really? That's weird. I had to make a change to an order and contacted them through their website, and Jay wrote me back in about an hour. I was quite surprised with the speed of the contact, considering they're 45-50 days out on holsters right now. I've had 2 RCS Phantom LCs so far, with another one ordered, but I can't say I've ever tried to wear on IWB. I never had to, they hide my Sig 229 w/ TLR-1 easy enough with a sweatshirt, sweater or a button up shirt. A T-shirt, obviously, is a no-go, but I'm not much on the baggy shirt look, so a t-shirt on me wouldn't hide an IWB any better. If it's hot out, I just throw on a light button up shirt if I'm going anywhere.
The belt loops seem big, but with the curve in the holster, it would put a lot more stress on them if they were any smaller. There isn't any flop, or movement, that's for sure. Of the holsters I've tried, I like the Ravens the best.
I tried one out for a G19 a few years ago, and I did not like it at all. I tried all the attachments but could not conceal my G19 worth a flip. With that said, everything from Raven is well made, and they are great to deal with.
My exact issues as well, went to CCC Looper instead, but as far as any other role IWB excluded Phantom is great.
Alpha Sierra
03-15-10, 19:45
I tried the Raven for OWB use, having been told repeatedly that it concealed just as well as a good leather pancake. It doesn't.
Agreed. It's not even close.
Alpha Sierra
03-15-10, 19:47
I don't care for leather IWB as it tends to flatten without the gun in there (even the good ones).
Not this one:
FIST #20
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp290/JRossy/guns/DSC00610.jpg
Stays open no matter what. I think the secret is that it is made of slightly thicker leather, and most importantly, it is not two pieces of leather sewn together over a pistol but a single piece of leather wrapped around the front (top) of the pistol and closed by seams at the bottom (rear). On top the mouth reinforcement really does help. It is basically an Askins Avenger set up for IWB.
You'd have to crush it with your entire body weight for it to collapse.
Leather, and reinforced leather especially, is too thick for guns like the Glock IMHO. I carry in a Raven IWB with the kydex over hooks every day I am legally allowed.
i've been using a raven for my G19 for about a year now. i wear it at about 2:30. quite comfortable and concealable. i use the soft loops.
only thing weird with that holster is the screws they give you for the loops dont' really thread into the inserts that far... kind of odd. i did have one insert finally strip out. (they're easily replaced)
I've worn one daily for about a 8 months for my G19 so far with the OWB over hooks but one of the over hooks recently broke. I replaced them with comp-tac clips and every thing has been good so far.
Thanks for the opinions...wow...it seems as if their is a variety though. I am looking at if for the IWB and I want to get model to accept a TLR-1 for a Glock 19.
I'm a bigger guy, so I don't know if that will help with the curvature of the holster or hurt me.
It sounds as if the quality is top notch, but is everyones dislikes about the holster merely a comfort issue? Does it dig into and rub you wrong?
Would the method of attachment make a difference on comfort?
Thanks again
Shane
I have two Ravens, one for my G19 with a light and one without a light. At first I didn't like carrying them IWB using the soft loops but I spent a few weeks carrying it using the soft loops and it really grew on me.
I did think it carried too high, higher than what I was used to but after carrying it day-in and day-out I got used to it.
Now, I still like my VMII and my Loopers but I have no problem carrying my Raven IWB now.
Powder_Burn
03-15-10, 20:41
Isn't the holster the same anyway? Or are you buying a different holster for a different size gun?
Yes - considering trying out a different gun/light combo using the standard loops for OWB carry. Need something for an M&P9/x300 combo in situations when concealment is not the priority. The gap (or standoff) I described is more tolerable in an OWB setup due to the increased thickness of pants and plus the use of inside loops instead of outside facing J-hooks that I used IWB. The original Phantom LC I tried was an M&P9c/TLR-3 combo. Wish it would have worked...might be easier to tailor the curve arc with the regular Phantom w/o light accommodation so that is an option too.
Jay Cunningham
03-15-10, 20:48
Generally speaking I don't carry concealed OWB so I have never really considered it. I have a Phantom with soft loops for a Glock 19 (no light) and for traditional 4:00 carry it works very well for me.
I have worn a Phantom OWB during training classes but I prefer Blade Tech in that role. Oh well, we all have our preferences.
Jay Cunningham
03-15-10, 21:04
Body composition plays a big role in how something feels to each individual as well. That is what is difficult in listening to opinions on something so personal as a concealment holster.
Oh man. Look at how people recommend running carbines! Think a little fella who goes 5' 6" should really have the same stance, stock length, and support hand placement as a fella who goes 6' 5"?
Many do!
:eek:
Alpha Sierra
03-15-10, 21:34
Leather, and reinforced leather especially, is too thick for guns like the Glock IMHO. I carry in a Raven IWB with the kydex over hooks every day I am legally allowed.
My FIST #20 is a little bit thicker than my CTAC (both for an M&P9). However, with how I dress the slight increase in bulk is still invisible and the comfort more than makes up for it.
Interesting. The first thing I observed when I got my phantom was how thin the Holster panels were.
I've cracked uncle mikes and Safariland plastic holsters, but the Phantom is a completely different design. Phantom seems to have a good reputation so far, so I'm not worried about the thin walled design. The standard belt loops are really thick though.
Mark,
The kydex gives just enough to allow the holster to flex when it is impacted. Thats the beauty of kydex, it seems to deform just enough when under pressure yet still springs back to its original shape.
Sure, hit it hard enough or put enough weight on it and it will break but so will everything else...minus leather of course.
I guess this is just one of the tradeoffs that we have to deal with when using kydex over leather holsters.
I've used RCS phantom holsters for a couple years now in 1911, BHP, M&P9 and G19 models. Most of that time with soft IWB loops, or the standard kydex OWB loops. My attempts with clips - they all broke. Before Raven holsters, I'd used a couple different IWB and OWB Blade Techs, Galco and De-Santis (I think) IWB, Bianchi OWB. Not a huge sample by any means, but here's my findings:
RCS phantom was the only kydex holster truly concealed worth a damn OWB, and the only Kydex holster than was comfortable enough to carry all day everyday. Of the few holsters I tried, it pretty much concealed the best and way the most comfortable across the board. For whatever reason though, the BHP phantom rubbed me wrong. But in M&P9 and G19 - super comfortable - I've done many 4-8 mile runs, IWB and OWB. My only real gripe with the standard phantoms is they were cracking from heavy draw/dryfire practice shooting IDPA. RCS replaced cracked phantoms 4 times before I finally wised up and got a (slightly) heavier thickness of holster. The next thickness up did the trick - no cracks in 6 months of practice - and its still a thinner holster than Blade-tech, etc.
On my recommendation, a friend bought a phantom for a HK P7, and it's not working out for him. It carries too high and the slide sticks out. When I put it on, it works great. Weird. Just difference in build I guess.
Anyway, I still carry and shoot IDPA with a phantom, but I"m going more and more to appendix IWB carry with the CCC Looper with an M&P9 for daily carry. Its not as comfortable, but AIWB has so many advantages I'm willing to sacrifice a little (just a little) comfort.
In short - I dig 'em.
Raven makes fantastic holsters!
Mark,
The kydex gives just enough to allow the holster to flex when it is impacted. Thats the beauty of kydex, it seems to deform just enough when under pressure yet still springs back to its original shape.
Sure, hit it hard enough or put enough weight on it and it will break but so will everything else...minus leather of course.
I guess this is just one of the tradeoffs that we have to deal with when using kydex over leather holsters.
Yep... I hear you... but my observation was that the RAVEN holsters were made of a relatively thing kydex compared to cheaper variants. RCS certainly can't be any worse than the versions I've destroyed. ;)
Like NCPatrol, I feel the exact opposite. Concealed OWB I've not come across better, yet. IWB, I think there is a bit too much material for total comfort and concealment.
Now, open carry OWB, I think it begs for someone to come snatch your pistol. Not ravens fault just something that goes with open top non mechanical retention holsters.
Same here.
I'm almost exclusively carrying concealed OWB these days and the RCS Phantoms are excellent.
It's not my first choice for IWB...I really don't have a first choice for IWB though.:(
It's to be avoided whenever possible IMO.
YMMV
Another Phantom IWB fan here. However after almost 2 years one of the overhooks on mine broke last week. I need to call and get a new set. Truth be told, I wear a Threat Solutions UCR (have broke a hook on it also) as much or more than the Raven. Still use the Raven mag pouch full time though, best mag holder for concealed carry that I've found.
I bought my Raven Phantom in March '08 and have used it exclusively since with my G19. Previosuly I used a Comp-Tac CTAC. Personally, I prefer the Phantom and find it very comfortable. I use the offset, tuckable over hooks. I broke one of my overhooks in July '09 and the Malabar Front sent me a replacement set on their dime. Raven has outstanding customer service. I've since gotten a Phantom LC for my G19/x300 that I use as an OWB and a Phantom IWB w/offset tuckable overhooks for my Sig 229. I find that although my G19 is easy to conceal and comfy in the Phantom, my Comp-Tac CTAC works better with my Sig 229. I don't know if that's more of a weight or size thing? I say go for it. The wait times are a little long but it's worth wait and if you don't like it you'll have people lining up to buy it from you.
John_Wayne777
03-16-10, 07:33
I use RCS gear daily and I'm quite pleased with it. I've not tried every holster on the market, but I've tried a lot and so far the RCS gear is the most comfortable and effective concealment gear I've tried.
It's also adjustable:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/jwayne_777/IMGP0996.jpg
The sets of holes you see on the side allow you to chose different ride heights for the holster. As you can see on my former Glock holster, I have the rubber soft loops (my favorite IWB option) set to the highest set of holes, which makes for the lowest ride height. The M&P holster which is set up for OWB carry in the picture using the standard belt loops is set to the highest ride height with that carry option. That helps to conceal the weapon better by reducing printing.
I've been very pleased with Raven's stuff having used it daily for about 2 years now. Holsters are, however, intensely personal items. What works great for one person may suck donkey water for somebody else. If you're serious about concealed carry then you're going to end up trying a bunch of holsters in the effort to find what works best for you. As far as taking a shot goes, given the number of people who rave about the gear taking a shot with RCS is probably a good idea. If you don't like your RCS gear you can generally sell it pretty quickly as others are always looking to get it.
JW brings up a good point re: resale. The lead times on RC gear mean that someone is always cruising the used market for them. I replied to an ad here a few weeks ago with "I'll take it" and before I could call the guy he already had a dozen more inquiries and sold it (no hard feelings, just pointing out how quickly they go).
One thing about Raven that I think makes a huge difference on comfort is the fact that it is relatively flat. I'm a 33" waist and if I try to carry the Raven n my hip bone it's horrible. If, however, I put the leading belt loop right at the pants seam it is immensely more comfortable. Bigger guys that are wider at the hip bone (thicker front to back) may be able to carry on the seam, but skinny guys like me probably need to slide it back.
Ive had and been using my RCS Phantom with my MP9 since November of 09, so not as long as lots of people on here have been using them. I got the J-Hooks and generally like them, however if you find yourself wearing lighter weight pants like suit/dress pants, they wont work very well. They rely on the pants to hold the holster/gun up and not the belt like a traditional overhook does. Wearing them with jeans/carhartts/dickies/etc... the J-hooks work really really well. I personally feel its a fine tradeoff between concealability and function, especially because I wear jeans or some other heavier pants about 98% of the time. The good part about all the hook/loop options is that they are cheap and if what you order doesnt work for you, try something else. Hell I bet The Malabar Front would probably swap you out for something else for just the cost of shipping.
I have to wear this holster at 4:00-5:00 for it to work for me. I, like rob, have a smaller waist so if I try to wear at 3:00 it creates a huge bulge and the butt of the gun is completely visible, thus eliminating the concealment part(it looks like an OWB holster with a t-shirt stretched over it, can we say printing). Back at 4:00-5:00 the thing sits flat against my back, is completely comfortable for all day carry, sitting, standing, etc... and the gun is completely hidden. Most people would never know I am carrying even with a t-shirt on(went out on a date with a girl and she gave me a hug at the end of the night(I know, but thats another story for another time and place) and was like "WTF IS THIS"). The only time its uncomfortable, for me, is when I am trying to lay on the couch on my back, but any holster/gun is gonna be uncomfortable when your laying on it. I havent found the holster to rub my skin raw and I tend to roll commando and no undershirt a lot when wearing shorts and a t-shirt, maybe the first 3 mins when putting it on cold is chilling, but after it warms up its GTG.
Thanks again guys for all the advice... I know its a different deal from person to person, but I think I'm going to take the plunge and order one set up to accept a light.
I'm going to try the soft loops for IWB. Doesn't the holster come with OWB belt hook ups?
Thanks again
Shane
Thanks again guys for all the advice... I know its a different deal from person to person, but I think I'm going to take the plunge and order one set up to accept a light.
I'm going to try the soft loops for IWB. Doesn't the holster come with OWB belt hook ups?
Thanks again
Shane
Yes it comes ready for OWB. I also use the soft loops on mine when wearing IWB. Been using Raven gear for over two years now.
I have found an application of mole skin really helps for those who find the thin edge of the sweatshield uncomfortable on the Phantom or ACR .
Just got it ordered and tried the IWB loops...along with a spare mag carrier...I hope it all works out good when it comes.
The check out said 30-45 days, I know they are supposed to be behind, but has anyone had a faster turn around, or will it be close to what has been stated upon check out?
Thanks again everyone for all your help and input...
Ga Shooter
03-16-10, 15:34
I ordered one last week and got an email 2 days later saying it would be 60 days. So I am patiently waiting.:p
A long time ago, when I ordered mine, I got it a few days earlier than the 40 day number they gave me.
Yeah, but now they are buried in orders because everyone has to have one after seeing them in the Magpul Dynamic Handgun DVD's. ;)
Mine came in just shy of 60 days. I was quoted 35-40.
Emailed them when it officially became late; Jay was very helpful and polite. I know you have to wait for their stuff these days, but they'll get more of my business.
SmokeJumper
03-16-10, 20:45
I have found an application of mole skin really helps for those who find the thin edge of the sweatshield uncomfortable on the Phantom or ACR .
Do you buy the mole skin in/on a sheet and does it have an adhesive backing or do ya glue it one?
The order times have increased a bit, but I can say with confidence, their customer service is outstanding. Jay has taken care of any problems or changes with no hesitation. They make a great product and it holds up well over time/hard use.
Alpha Sierra
03-16-10, 20:50
Do you buy the mole skin in/on a sheet and does it have an adhesive backing or do ya glue it one?
Moleskin most commonly comes in square sheets around 3" x 3" made by Dr Scholl's for the relief of blisters and abrasions on your feet. The product does come with an adhesive backing and is found in the foot care section of your local drugstore.
Moleskin most commonly comes in square sheets around 3" x 3" made by Dr Scholl's for the relief of blisters and abrasions on your feet. The product does come with an adhesive backing and is found in the foot care section of your local drugstore.
I might try some of that. This holster is brutal on my skin when I get stuck pulling my shirt over my pistol for concealment.
CaptainDooley
03-16-10, 23:52
I tried moleskin for a day on my latest Looper when it showed up without the heat shield. I know that I'm unusually hard on things, but the stuff had started to peel off by the end of the first day and had gummed up both the holster and my undershirt. Haven't tried it again, but I might if I decide to stop wearing an undershirt in the hot Texas summer.
Moleskin most commonly comes in square sheets around 3" x 3" made by Dr Scholl's for the relief of blisters and abrasions on your feet. The product does come with an adhesive backing and is found in the foot care section of your local drugstore.
I am contemplating going and getting some suede from the fabric store and then using some 3m super spray adhesive I have and sticking the suede to the back of the holster.
FromMyColdDeadHand
03-17-10, 07:40
I was thinking about getting some leather and using the eyelet holes and some Chicago Screws to make a backing for it. Any ideas on leather to use? I really am looking for a combo of the raven security and the comfort of a Minatour.
I've never had a problem with the moleskin peeling off the holster as a matter of fact it was tough to change.
NCPatrolAR
03-17-10, 10:34
wear an underarmor style shirt under my normal shirt to serve as a barrier between the holster and my skin. Has worked great for the past 9 years or so
Has anyone thought to try sanding the body side of the heat shield with some 1000+ grit? I haven't touched a rcs holster to know the texture, but I could imagine that the smoother it was, the less it would irritate. Also, if you're sold on the moleskin, maybe a bead of superglue along the outermost edges would secure it, to prevent against sweat induced "wear-off". Just a couple thoughts. Now if I could just decide on a holster!
wear an underarmor style shirt under my normal shirt to serve as a barrier between the holster and my skin. Has worked great for the past 9 years or so
Yeah, this.
This goes to the whole "adjusting your wardrobe to suit having a gun and magazines on your belt" thing we always talk about...
I know for Summer, some people will just throw a t-shirt on over their gun and call it good, but for me, I wear a tighter fitting undershirt and an untucked button down short sleeve shirt when I'm carrying...
My preferred CCW holster is the Comp-Tac CTAC. Its the most comfortable concealment holster I've tried so far.
Not trying to argue, but my CTAC (M&P) was unbearable for me. I always felt the t-nuts on the struts digging into my hip.
Otherwise, I was pretty happy with it.
there lead time went up a little.
Yeah, this.
This goes to the whole "adjusting your wardrobe to suit having a gun and magazines on your belt" thing we always talk about...
I know for Summer, some people will just throw a t-shirt on over their gun and call it good, but for me, I wear a tighter fitting undershirt and an untucked button down short sleeve shirt when I'm carrying...
Being white trash, I find that my natural state is wearing a wife-beater undershirt at all times. Works great in the summer to keep the holster from rubbing and I'm always prepared to rip off my cover shirt and put the gun away and pick up a beer in case any news crews come by to talk about tornadoes or hurricanes.
Alpha Sierra
03-19-10, 05:54
Not trying to argue, but my CTAC (M&P) was unbearable for me. I always felt the t-nuts on the struts digging into my hip.
Otherwise, I was pretty happy with it.
I agree. The holster itself feels OK because it is pretty slim. But the plastic struts and the T nuts are hell, no matter how much moleskin I put over them.
Has anyone else tried both the phantom and the c-tac? I'm stuck between them both. I have tried neither, however. Has anyone had similar problems with the c-tac? ie: the digging in of hardware? I'm looking for iwb carry. Can anyone offer a contrast of the two?
Skinny guy here, 6'3" 165lbs
Has anyone else tried both the phantom and the c-tac? I'm stuck between them both. I have tried neither, however. Has anyone had similar problems with the c-tac? ie: the digging in of hardware? I'm looking for iwb carry. Can anyone offer a contrast of the two?
Skinny guy here, 6'3" 165lbs
I'm the same build (6'2" ~160lbs) so, take that for whats it's worth. With the CTAC just behind 3 o'clock, the strut would be right at 3 o'clock, and that's where it dug in the worst.
I use a Desantis Scorpion for IWB, and I made my own OWB for concealed use. I wasn't paying $90 and waiting a few months for something I can make myself....which isn't quite so pretty, but it works just fine.
I'm always prepared to rip off my cover shirt and put the gun away and pick up a beer in case any news crews come by to talk about tornadoes or hurricanes.
Gotta love Florida :D
Yeah, my email confirmation was about 60 days when I ordered it on Tuesday...I hope I like the CCW w/ Light route...we shall see!
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-19-10, 13:41
The older I get the less tolerant of IWB I am. And the funny thing is, I am lighter now than I was 10 years ago when I only carried IWB. I like the Comp-Tac paddle and the Raven OWB these days. Raven is a top-notch outfit. And they are basically a no-brainer when it comes to light-mounted carry.
I am a bit on the smaller side and must say I love the phantom OWB for a Glock 19 - standard wife beater T with covering shirt of some type. I tried the IWB option and that just does not work for me here. Very uncomfortable to me - I have a Milt Sparks that really does feel better IWB, but still prefer OWB big time.
i dont like the all kydex route for IWB. the raven is a superior OWB but the comptac minotaur is the best IWB
i dont like the all kydex route for IWB. the raven is a superior OWB but the comptac minotaur is the best IWB
Those are some pretty absolute statements. Can we add "for me" at the end of your statement? :)
Im one of the aforementioned dudes that wears an underarmor shirt 365 days a year. I have no need of a leather backing on my IWB holsters, especially not if it looks like the skin that Hannibal Lecter put on his face in silence of the lambs. I like a nice, tight, small minimalist package when it comes to holsters...and women. :D
YammyMonkey
03-20-10, 21:59
Like one of the other posters mentioned, I break my ACR LCs every few months. I think it's a combo of the light & a lot of dry & live fire draw practice that does them in.
The newer versions with the leather extension don't conceal nearly as well as the older ACR but it probably keeps more of them from breaking & might work well enough for a G-19 or smaller framed gun.
If the durability was better I think they'd be a top AIWB holster contender.
The older I get the less tolerant of IWB I am. And the funny thing is, I am lighter now than I was 10 years ago when I only carried IWB. I like the Comp-Tac paddle and the Raven OWB these days. Raven is a top-notch outfit. And they are basically a no-brainer when it comes to light-mounted carry.
I'm using the Comp Tac Paddle for my HK45. So far so good.
Has anyone else tried both the phantom and the c-tac? I'm stuck between them both. I have tried neither, however. Has anyone had similar problems with the c-tac? ie: the digging in of hardware? I'm looking for iwb carry. Can anyone offer a contrast of the two?
Skinny guy here, 6'3" 165lbs
I'm not exactly skinny ... or tall. I'm 5'6" and 160lbs. I have tried tons of Kydex and leather IWBs and can't say enough good about the CTAC. I find them very comfortable ... even against bare skin.
I have no first hand experience with Raven but they do appear nice enough.
I will say this. I took a class a few weeks ago (1,200 rds over 2.5 days) with lots of one handed malf clearance drills (racking slide on my Kydex CTAC holster). The guy next to me on the line was using a Raven OWB and was also using his holster to rack his slide. At the end of the weekend I noticed the mouth band of his holster was a bit chewed up. Mine looked as new. The Kydex of the CTAC appeared to be thicker and apparently stronger.
What the heck is racking your slide on your Kydex holster?
What the heck is racking your slide on your Kydex holster?
... snagging the rear sight of your pistol on the mouth band of your holster/belt/misc gear to cycle the slide with one hand.
Now that you have me lost. Don't you have a round in your weapon when it's in your holster?
For visuals, just imagine that you're holding your pistol in one hand, can't use the other because it's defunct/missing/otherwise disobedient.
Slide's open, there's a full magazine in the well (don't worry about how THAT happened, not the point), and you want the slide closed.
Orient your barrel to face the earth and place the forward edge of your rear sight against something rigid or semi-rigid (say, the lip of a kydex holster?), push down and away so that it catches that hard edge and slides off of it, pulling the slide back slightly.
That releases the slide to go into battery.
Ok know I get the drill thanks for the info. I can use this at the range.
... and for double feed malfunctions you would actually remove the mag from the weapon, cycle the slide multiple times (at least 3) to make sure it is clear, then reinsert the mag and do as the previous post stated to chamber a round and close the slide. Now you are back in the fight.
EDIT: Practice this with dummy rounds, empty brass, or an empty weapon before going live.
For visuals, just imagine that you're holding your pistol in one hand, can't use the other because it's defunct/missing/otherwise disobedient.
Slide's open, there's a full magazine in the well (don't worry about how THAT happened, not the point), and you want the slide closed.
Orient your barrel to face the earth and place the forward edge of your rear sight against something rigid or semi-rigid (say, the lip of a kydex holster?), push down and away so that it catches that hard edge and slides off of it, pulling the slide back slightly.
That releases the slide to go into battery.
Why don't you use your thumb to close the slide release of your shooting hand?
Heh, if this were F2F, I'd fall into humor-at-others'-expense mode (i.e., Sarcastic Socratic Method) and respond "All right, I'll play your little game...why DON'T I?" Then we'd verbally wargame it for six weeks or so.
Straight answer, it's up to the shooter. Many roads lead to Rome.
The above describes a method, not the method. Since this is a Raven holster thread in the Tactical Gear subforum, and not a manual-of-arms thread in the Training subforum, it might be best to leave it at that.
Jay Cunningham
04-20-10, 20:42
Was shooting with my M&P9 today with attached x300. I have a Raven Phantom for this. Impossible to draw weak hand only.
Katar-
Where on your waistline and what method(s) did you attempt with your weak hand? I have been wearing RCS gear long before I worked for them and aside from my own training, I help instruct classes in Michigan. We have a lot of students wearing RCS gear and I've yet to see someone who has an issue with a weak side draw. I'd like to get some more information and get this sorted out for you.
my 60 day wait is almost up. hope it doesnt get pushed out again.
I am about your size and weight (5'7" and 145lbs). What other holsters have you had luck with for IWB carry on a CCW? I am planning to use either a G19 or G26. Also, any good options for OWB for taking classes?
I am trying to find some good options so I don't have to try too many holsters before I find the right one. Thanks!
I'm not exactly skinny ... or tall. I'm 5'6" and 160lbs. I have tried tons of Kydex and leather IWBs and can't say enough good about the CTAC. I find them very comfortable ... even against bare skin.
I have no first hand experience with Raven but they do appear nice enough.
I will say this. I took a class a few weeks ago (1,200 rds over 2.5 days) with lots of one handed malf clearance drills (racking slide on my Kydex CTAC holster). The guy next to me on the line was using a Raven OWB and was also using his holster to rack his slide. At the end of the weekend I noticed the mouth band of his holster was a bit chewed up. Mine looked as new. The Kydex of the CTAC appeared to be thicker and apparently stronger.
my 60 day wait is almost up. hope it doesnt get pushed out again.
Heck I ordered mine back in Feb. It was 45-50 days then. Last I heard ship date 14-19 April. Two days later and still no word when it's coming. Heck next week I'll have another Comp Tac coming. Lets see which one gets here first.
I am about your size and weight (5'7" and 145lbs). What other holsters have you had luck with for IWB carry on a CCW? I am planning to use either a G19 or G26. Also, any good options for OWB for taking classes?
I am trying to find some good options so I don't have to try too many holsters before I find the right one. Thanks!
Look at the Paddle Holster from Comp Tac. That's what I use for my HK45.
Heck I ordered mine back in Feb. It was 45-50 days then. Last I heard ship date 14-19 April. Two days later and still no word when it's coming. Heck next week I'll have another Comp Tac coming. Lets see which one gets here first.
I am on the same boat. I really wanted to be able to use the Raven next weekend but it is looking like I will need to find another means if I want to meet that time frame.
Was shooting with my M&P9 today with attached x300. I have a Raven Phantom for this. Impossible to draw weak hand only.
Brother, as Tom stated those questions i can say this Its a safe bet im larger than you are in most aspects(food blister and height i wear my raven rig at 3 position
I have zero issue doing support,weak reaction left handed draws with the same combo
there should be photos coming in the next surefire from the SDH class i was at and doing this often as well at HCT what Technique were you doing?
Jay Cunningham
04-22-10, 12:08
Sounds like I must be doing it wrong.
I'll work on my technique.
Sounds like I must be doing it wrong.
I'll work on my technique.
TK are you wearing yours lower on your battle belt or something?
I know for me, who's the same size as Steve, really that if I have it at 3 o'clock it's easier to go from the front with my reaction hand and grab the handle that way versus moving my arm behind my back. I feel there is a better range of motion with your shoulder/elbow joints that way.
My rule of thumb is if 4 o'clock forward I go from the front and if riding further back than 4 o'clock I can go behind.
I've got a bad shoulder from playing ball so that does sometimes hinder me making it a really quick move when practicing. I think the biggest thing is how to get a proper grip from when one gets it out of the holster. From the guys I train with it's not hard normally, but throw in stress in a black night training session and you definatley have to watch all safety rules.
Heck I ordered mine back in Feb. It was 45-50 days then. Last I heard ship date 14-19 April. Two days later and still no word when it's coming. Heck next week I'll have another Comp Tac coming. Lets see which one gets here first.
i just hit 60 days. infact im +1 now
55 days on a 45-50 day wait.
they told me 60. i guess it depends on what site your looking at
Sounds like I must be doing it wrong.
I'll work on my technique.
Simply asking as we know there are several ways of doing this type of draw....
it might help to understand which way your doing it
i just hit 60 days. infact im +1 now
To morrow makes it 60 days since I placed the order. Saturday will be 60 days in production. The new wait of 70-75 days will take how long????
if they bumped my wait out again then there shit out a luck. if your that farging deap stop taking orders. ill cancel if they take another 2 weeks. there is no holster worth almost 3 months wait
Ga Shooter
04-23-10, 07:51
Placed my order on 2/24/2010 ship notice recieved on 4/21/2010. Now just waiting on the brown truck!!:D
Hey guys, a quick note on the wait time.
We know it's tough to wait on gear you are looking forward to using, and I can promise you that the entire crew here is doing everything in our power to get gear out as quickly as possible. We have tripled our production staff and some guys are working 12-14 hour days in order to keep up with demand. It isn't uncommon for me to be up at midnight or later responding to emails and taking care of other aspects of our operations.
We have not closed our order pipeline because we have a large customer base who are willing to wait for our gear. To those people who have put so much faith in our products- our deepest thanks.
We have some things in place that will help to reduce our wait time. We are currently purchasing equipment and stocking a new, larger shop. We are doing this to avoid a stop in production and to make the transition as seamless as possible to get our gear out to you as quick as we can. That said, there are only so many hours in a day. Our gear is hand made and each item gets the time it deserves. We can make a finite number of holsters in a given work day, but our order volume far exceeds that. The new shop and new staff will help us to catch up.
We appreciate the orders and the kind words. As always, we are here to help if you need anything.
Tom
how bout you train me and we open up a houston department. :D
Placed my order on 2/24/2010 ship notice recieved on 4/21/2010. Now just waiting on the brown truck!!:D
How they heck did you get yours before mine. I ordered mine on 23 Feb. I have no ship date!!!!!!!!!
Ga Shooter
04-23-10, 13:26
My wife just called and told me the little white Jeep just delivered mine!!! Come on quitting time:D Hang in there Cyber good things come to those who wait.
sent an email to check on my status and they told me it shipped this morning.
I've sent two emails. One to Jay and one to Tom. 16:00 no emails from them. I'll call.
sent an email to check on my status and they told me it shipped this morning.
When did you place your order?
Got off the phone with Tom. He said IF my Holster does not go out today. Should be next week. I did tell him I had an email that the ship date was 14-19 April. I told him I don't have it next week. That I will be calling again.
Got off the phone with Tom. He said IF my Holster does not go out today. Should be next week. I did tell him I had an email that the ship date was 14-19 April. I told him I don't have it next week. That I will be calling again.
order number?
63 days ago
When did you place your order?
Just placed an order for one along with a double mag pouch for a Glock 23. Was advised of a 70-75 day turnaround. Seems like nothing compared to the Tucker I ordered for a 1911 last June that still hasn't been started yet. :eek:
Wonder how much quicker production would be if businesses didn't have to field "is it done yet?" e-mails and phone calls from the same people every few days. Patience is a virtue... or something like that.
It is pure demand, they got flooded. It is kind of a shame that they are so popular all of the sudden, but I am not the only one it has inconvenienced, so I cant complain too much.
63 days ago
Looks like I'll have to call then again by Weds. Since you guys have ordered after me and yours are shipped. Good thing I ordered a Comp Tac For one of my other pistols. That should be in before the Raven.
Just placed an order for one along with a double mag pouch for a Glock 23. Was advised of a 70-75 day turnaround. Seems like nothing compared to the Tucker I ordered for a 1911 last June that still hasn't been started yet. :eek:
Wonder how much quicker production would be if businesses didn't have to field "is it done yet?" e-mails and phone calls from the same people every few days. Patience is a virtue... or something like that.
They sent me an email stated my Holster would be shipped 14-19 of April. Today was the first time I sent an email on where my Holster is. Since they did not ship. Plus when you place your order before other people and they get theirs before mine. Plus when I ordered mine was told 45 DAYS. But closer to 50. Which has since longgg past.
Ga Shooter
04-24-10, 07:39
OK guys. I have owned enough different holsters to fill up the bed of a pick up truck and I can say without a doubt that the Ravens are worth the wait!!! It is hands down the most comfortable and concealable holster I have ever owned. I know some of you are thinking of canceling your order because they are behind in production (Magpul Dynamic groupies) but hang in there. You will not be disappointed. I will now be standing in line myself as all of my carry guns will now get one.
RogerinTPA
04-24-10, 08:15
OK guys. I have owned enough different holsters to fill up the bed of a pick up truck and I can say without a doubt that the Ravens are worth the wait!!! It is hands down the most comfortable and concealable holster I have ever owned. I know some of you are thinking of canceling your order because they are behind in production (Magpul Dynamic groupies) but hang in there. You will not be disappointed. I will now be standing in line myself as all of my carry guns will now get one.
Roger that. Blame the Magpul Dynamics Pistol DVD! The turn around time now, is far beyond the wait time last year at the same time.
The company that makes the belt Costa wore is also experiencing a large backlog...
The company that makes the belt Costa wore is also experiencing a large backlog...
yea they are running a 5 to 7 week wait i think and jones tactical is running a 4-5 week wait.
Just placed an order for one along with a double mag pouch for a Glock 23. Was advised of a 70-75 day turnaround. Seems like nothing compared to the Tucker I ordered for a 1911 last June that still hasn't been started yet. :eek:
Wonder how much quicker production would be if businesses didn't have to field "is it done yet?" e-mails and phone calls from the same people every few days. Patience is a virtue... or something like that.
Roger that....
I know Tom Finies personally, and know he is doing EVERYTHING he can possibly/humanly do to increase production, and decrease shipping times. It is mainly due to Tom that the shipping time has not
increased to 90 plus days. IF you leave him alone and let him do what he does, things WILL get better. the very last thing he needs is
constant "where is my gear?" calls and emails at midnight.
AND NO, I can't get my shit any quicker, either.
is it just me or is there a lot of man love for those two dudes.
if i was gonna start a firearm buisness my first marketing ploy would be to give those guys free samples for T&E;)
Well lets see. When I called Tom yesterday and he said it could be 1-2 weeks before mine is shipped. So that would put the 50 max when I ordered at 75 days. So for those that ordered now at max of 75 days. Will be 95 DAYS or longer.
Roger that. Blame the Magpul Dynamics Pistol DVD! The turn around time now, is far beyond the wait time last year at the same time.
Ain't that the truth. Though I've heard that the DVD may not be the only reason. Something about a government contract.
Ga Shooter
04-25-10, 18:01
The company that makes the belt Costa wore is also experiencing a large backlog...
It seems they also went way up in price overnight!! Oh well can't blame them extra demand causes extra price, but it's great that Raven has not moved their prices up.
CaptainDooley
04-25-10, 18:18
I must have missed it in the videos - who's belt was he wearing?
ARES Gear great belts been running a ranger for about 6 months now
I ordered a holster, four magazine pouches, and extra hardware on 2/19. Confirmation email stated 40 days at that time, but still no word on mine despite having heard of several orders lately that were placed after mine that have shipped.
Placed my order on 2/24/2010 ship notice recieved on 4/21/2010. Now just waiting on the brown truck!!:D
Yours must be in the same place as mine. Limbo.
It seems they also went way up in price overnight!! Oh well can't blame them extra demand causes extra price, but it's great that Raven has not moved their prices up.
That would be untrue. The price may have gone up $10 from the originals that were out 2 years ago. This I believe was due to bringing a better product to the market. A better quality material does cost money.
It sure beats the copy cat that is out there where the design was clearly copied and the product inferior. No where near as stiff and the stitching not as professional. YMMV.
is it just me or is there a lot of man love for those two dudes.
if i was gonna start a firearm buisness my first marketing ploy would be to give those guys free samples for T&E;)
not just you. you should see travis's facebook, nothing but dudes on there. and some guy on here asked what kind of pants costa was wearing...lol. :p
RCSMichael
04-26-10, 01:14
First, let me express my gratitude to the M4C community. Our company exists today in large part to the support we've received from this network of weapon and training enthusiasts.
We are currently experiencing explosive growth.
With regard to delivery times, let me address a few of the points raised here:
"I was quoted 40 days, but that was 50+ days ago"
I personally apologize for this. The pace that orders have been coming in has far outstripped our production capacity. We've been hiring additional production staff and adding new processes to increase our output, but we're still playing a game of catch-up. This is part of the reason we don't charge anyone's card until right before your order is ready to ship.
"I noticed that someone who ordered after me got their order before me"
Orders are PROCESSED on a first come, first served basis. We run two production teams. As orders flow into the queue, they get split between those two teams. At that point, it is possible that orders can sometimes get PRODUCED slightly out of sequence because one team might outpace the other on a given day.
"I odered from Comp-Tac/Blade-Tech/Sidearmor and they quoted me a two week turn-around time on my order. "
All of those companies make fine products, but they don't utilize the same manufacturing process we do. Nor do they offer the modularity we do. Nor do they offer the breadth of weapon and light combinations we do. If you need a holster in two weeks, by all means, order from a company that can ship you a holster in two weeks. I can assure you that if you order from us, it will be worth the wait.
Guys, bear in mind....we're just like you. We're shooters. We're total sluts for good gear. We love to train. And we get impatient, too. You might have to wait. You might have been waiting a long time already...but we NEVER charge your card until your order is being prepared for shipping.
Be patient with us. We're getting caught up. And there are some REALLY cool things coming from us.
Thank you to everyone for your business. If you have questions or issues, Tom will take care of you.
Al U. 5811
04-26-10, 09:28
Patiently waiting for mine. I ordered it a month before I even had the gun in hand. Looking forward to it but I expected (and prepared for) long wait times.
First, let me express my gratitude to the M4C community. Our company exists today in large part to the support we've received from this network of weapon and training enthusiasts.
We are currently experiencing explosive growth.
With regard to delivery times, let me address a few of the points raised here:
"I was quoted 40 days, but that was 50+ days ago"
I personally apologize for this. The pace that orders have been coming in has far outstripped our production capacity. We've been hiring additional production staff and adding new processes to increase our output, but we're still playing a game of catch-up. This is part of the reason we don't charge anyone's card until right before your order is ready to ship.
"I noticed that someone who ordered after me got their order before me"
Orders are PROCESSED on a first come, first served basis. We run two production teams. As orders flow into the queue, they get split between those two teams. At that point, it is possible that orders can sometimes get PRODUCED slightly out of sequence because one team might outpace the other on a given day.
"I odered from Comp-Tac/Blade-Tech/Sidearmor and they quoted me a two week turn-around time on my order. "
All of those companies make fine products, but they don't utilize the same manufacturing process we do. Nor do they offer the modularity we do. Nor do they offer the breadth of weapon and light combinations we do. If you need a holster in two weeks, by all means, order from a company that can ship you a holster in two weeks. I can assure you that if you order from us, it will be worth the wait.
Guys, bear in mind....we're just like you. We're shooters. We're total sluts for good gear. We love to train. And we get impatient, too. You might have to wait. You might have been waiting a long time already...but we NEVER charge your card until your order is being prepared for shipping.
Be patient with us. We're getting caught up. And there are some REALLY cool things coming from us.
Thank you to everyone for your business. If you have questions or issues, Tom will take care of you.
Can i get one in Hot Pink or Hunter orange?
Hi Mikey
Ga Shooter
04-26-10, 10:12
That would be untrue. The price may have gone up $10 from the originals that were out 2 years ago. This I believe was due to bringing a better product to the market. A better quality material does cost money.
It sure beats the copy cat that is out there where the design was clearly copied and the product inferior. No where near as stiff and the stitching not as professional. YMMV.
I double checked on the price increase and you are correct. I must have read it wrong before. I withdraw my earlier post.
I double checked on the price increase and you are correct. I must have read it wrong before. I withdraw my earlier post.
No worries. I just didn't want anyone to think Jake was all of a sudden raping people on price because a product he happens to make is displayed on a popular DVD was all. His main concern is offering the best product he can at the best price and still remain profitable to operate a business. I think all can appreciate that.
SeriousStudent
04-26-10, 12:40
..........
And there are some REALLY cool things coming from us.
........
Exxxxxxxcellent. :)
</MontyBurns>
I have a RCS holster for my G-19 with Surefire X300. It's a really, really good combo, and I wear it for my usher duties at church every Sunday.
I'm eagerly looking forward to the new products. Thanks for stopping in and giving us the update.
Gents, I thought I'd follow up from my page two comment.
Since I posted back on page two I've used the Raven exclusively and I'm extremely happy with it. I'm getting some wear on the lower inside edge of the soft loops. This is from running my Wilderness FF belt through them instead of un-doing the snap. I'll have to change my habit here or else I imagine that over time I'll wear through the soft loops if I continue pulling my FF belt through them everytime I take my britches off!
I ran both Raven holsters in the Ken Hackathorn class this weekend and as expected they proved worthy and up to the task.
Kentucky Cop
04-26-10, 14:41
Question for you Raven Holster lovers.
Without getting into the 9mm vs the .40 cal debate, I am looking at getting a Raven concealment holster for off-duty carry. Now, I carry all Glock .40 cal at work and seriously considering buying a midsize. I am torn between the Generation 4 G19 and the G23.(I know they havent been released yet). If I go ahead and order the holster from Raven will both weapons fit in the same holster or do I need to decide on which weapon I buy first? Just trying to beat the wait time fellas!:mad:
Also, do I go with the 10 degree cant that they come with or get the MD cut with 0 degree cant???
Ky Cop
Question for you Raven Holster lovers.
Without getting into the 9mm vs the .40 cal debate, I am looking at getting a Raven concealment holster for off-duty carry. Now, I carry all Glock .40 cal at work and seriously considering buying a midsize. I am torn between the Generation 4 G19 and the G23.(I know they havent been released yet). If I go ahead and order the holster from Raven will both weapons fit in the same holster or do I need to decide on which weapon I buy first? Just trying to beat the wait time fellas!:mad:
Ky Cop
You only need to buy one holster, it will fit both the G19 and the G23. In fact, all G19 holsters will work with the G23 and G32. Same goes for the the G17/22/31 and G26/27/33. You don't really buy a holster for a specific Glock you buy them for the size (full, mid, compact).
Can i get one in Hot Pink or Hunter orange?
Hi Mikey
I hear those are only a myth!
Can i get one in Hot Pink or Hunter orange?
Hi Mikey
First, the Raven's are serious gear for serious people, IF you are serious....You CAN wait.....
Second.. Big Man..You are the only guy I know who can pull off the pink .. although I've seen some skinny little guys w/the orange...
You mean like this
Ps i know own the orange as well:D
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3147/4556307987_eb485dbfe3_o.jpg
Now that's dedication to BREAST cancer awareness right there!!!:D
Now that's dedication to BREAST cancer awareness right there!!!:D
Pretty much after losing an aunt to it and more im all over this when the guys told me they had some in....
Ps i have matching ar mag pouch as well too Im thinking of doing the slide in pink as well
Kentucky Cop
04-28-10, 13:36
Do most of you guys go with the factory 10 degree cant or is most going with this Magpul Dynamics Zero cant and the MD cut? Getting ready to order one but I am up in the air between which one to get? It will be for a G19 of G23 and off duty carry.
What model is the big guy using in pink? Thats the one I want without the light? Is it the Phantom???
Thoughts?
Ky Cop
I went with whatever the Phantom comes with. As long as you have another Holster to use while you wait for RCS. You may see it some time in August.
I ordered mine with the standard angle. I figure I can spend some time with a $10 sheet of kydex if I feel the need to make it different.
I ordered mine with the standard angle. I figure I can spend some time with a $10 sheet of kydex if I feel the need to make it different.
When did you order yours?
PRGGodfather
04-28-10, 14:59
Got mine in exactly 45 days.
controlledpairs2
04-28-10, 15:30
i first saw rcs products at a MD class i took in ohio. ive been running their m4 mag holders out here in the desert and they've lived up to some good abuse.
ive got a phantom for a usp compct and it's fantastic. i have no experience with the new MD cuts/cants though.
as far as i can tell, their products are worth the wait.
Got mine in exactly 45 days.
At least you got yours. Mine was the 45-50. Now who the heck knows when I receive it. 65 and counting.
SW-Shooter
04-28-10, 20:03
I want one so badly, but their wait times are torturous at best. I will order one eventually, but will probably meet my maker before I take delivery (it's a joke). If anyone has an IWB for a G21SF with normal glock rail and an Insight WX150, I'd pay a premium for it.
When did you order yours?
2/28, processed 3/1, order #7054
EDIT: Do not interperet this post as a complaint. Tom has been in touch with me and has made sure I will be happy.
Do most of you guys go with the factory 10 degree cant or is most going with this Magpul Dynamics Zero cant and the MD cut? Getting ready to order one but I am up in the air between which one to get? It will be for a G19 of G23 and off duty carry.
What model is the big guy using in pink? Thats the one I want without the light? Is it the Phantom???
Thoughts?
Ky Cop
I've got an M&P + TLR-1 holster with no cant and no sweat guard...not sure if it's the full Magpul treatment or not. But anyways it's AWESOME. Much easier to reholster without the can't, and a but more comfortable without the sweatguard...although I'm a fatass so take that into consideration.
It doesn't conceal quite as well as the canted versions but I don't really care about that.
FromMyColdDeadHand
04-28-10, 21:25
I've got an M&P + TLR-1 holster with no cant and no sweat guard...not sure if it's the full Magpul treatment or not. But anyways it's AWESOME. Much easier to reholster without the can't, and a but more comfortable without the sweatguard...although I'm a fatass so take that into consideration.
It doesn't conceal quite as well as the canted versions but I don't really care about that.
Can you post a pic of yours? I'd like to see what the sweatguard and edges look like. I like a bit of cant so that it 'shortens' the but a bit and just fits my side better.
I run 0 cant I was doing it long beofre the MPD guys sorry chris and travis and no Sweat guard they added the cut to the corners i don't Cary as far forward
i run a G17 w/ surefire x300 in the standard cant but cut my sweat guard off just above the slide lock. Pretty much just enough to keep my undershirt from going into the holster.
2/28, processed 3/1, order #7054
EDIT: Do not interperet this post as a complaint. Tom has been in touch with me and has made sure I will be happy.
So your on the long wait list that have not got theirs.
So your on the long wait list that have not got theirs.
you could say that.
PRGGodfather
04-29-10, 00:52
At least you got yours. Mine was the 45-50. Now who the heck knows when I receive it. 65 and counting.
Well, they've been good to me, for sure. Don't know why exactly, but they have been.
Excellent products, too.
I ordered my a holster and mag carrier in January and the wait back then was 40 days. When my order was about to ship in late March, I noticed that I accidentally ordered the wrong side mag carrier, right side pistol holster and right side carrier. I sent an email through the website but got no reply and when it arrived a few days later the mag carrier was in the box. I contacted Jay and he said it's usually a 1-2 week turnaround to replace it so I sent it back the following week.
1 month later it's still not here. I have a class this weekend in OKC and told Jay and Bob that I needed it by Friday. I was going to cancel it yesterday and overnight some Ready Tactical holsters from SKD but Bob assured me that it would go out Express mail and that day (yesterday) which is guaranteed to deliver by 12:00PM and it's still a no show. I've been calling every 5-10 minutes with it going to voicemail.
I may have too post a bad report forthwith by next Friday.
I ordered my a holster and mag carrier in January and the wait back then was 40 days. When my order was about to ship in late March, I noticed that I accidentally ordered the wrong side mag carrier, right side pistol holster and right side carrier. I sent an email through the website but got no reply and when it arrived a few days later the mag carrier was in the box. I contacted Jay and he said it's usually a 1-2 week turnaround to replace it so I sent it back the following week.
1 month later it's still not here. I have a class this weekend in OKC and told Jay and Bob that I needed it by Friday. I was going to cancel it yesterday and overnight some Ready Tactical holsters from SKD but Bob assured me that it would go out Express mail and that day (yesterday) which is guaranteed to deliver by 12:00PM and it's still a no show. I've been calling every 5-10 minutes with it going to voicemail.
That stinks. Have you bought your Mag holders yet? I got mine with my order from Comp Tac today.
I ordered my a holster and mag carrier in January and the wait back then was 40 days. When my order was about to ship in late March, I noticed that I accidentally ordered the wrong side mag carrier, right side pistol holster and right side carrier. I sent an email through the website but got no reply and when it arrived a few days later the mag carrier was in the box. I contacted Jay and he said it's usually a 1-2 week turnaround to replace it so I sent it back the following week.
1 month later it's still not here. I have a class this weekend in OKC and told Jay and Bob that I needed it by Friday. I was going to cancel it yesterday and overnight some Ready Tactical holsters from SKD but Bob assured me that it would go out Express mail and that day (yesterday) which is guaranteed to deliver by 12:00PM and it's still a no show. I've been calling every 5-10 minutes with it going to voicemail.
Did you try and get a hold of Tom yet?
Raven Concealment Systems, LLC
Director of Sales
tom@ravenconcealment.com
(440) 465-7111
Courier could be late as well.
Tennvol12345
04-29-10, 15:37
Received my latest order today (ordered before the Magpul craziness) and it's typical RCS quality. I did notice that the kydex they are using now seems to be about twice as thick as my previous orders (last fall). This can be a good thing and a bad thing. The good - doesn't flex and feels more sturdy. The bad - I carry a single spare mag and light (SF G2 bezel up) pouch bolted together IWB and the thin kydex flexes over time to bend to my waist. I wonder if the new thicker kydex will do the same.
When did you order yours?
I ordered my a holster and mag carrier in January and the wait back then was 40 days. When my order was about to ship in late March, I noticed that I accidentally ordered the wrong side mag carrier, right side pistol holster and right side carrier. I sent an email through the website but got no reply and when it arrived a few days later the mag carrier was in the box. I contacted Jay and he said it's usually a 1-2 week turnaround to replace it so I sent it back the following week.
1 month later it's still not here. I have a class this weekend in OKC and told Jay and Bob that I needed it by Friday. I was going to cancel it yesterday and overnight some Ready Tactical holsters from SKD but Bob assured me that it would go out Express mail and that day (yesterday) which is guaranteed to deliver by 12:00PM and it's still a no show. I've been calling every 5-10 minutes with it going to voicemail.
Johnson,
Please contact me directly, I will get you squared away.
RCSMichael
04-30-10, 04:07
I may have too post a bad report forthwith by next Friday.
CyberM4:
I am curious what sort of bad report you anticipate having to post. You have posted 18 times on this thread alone since 21 April. Your posts have mainly consisted of interrogations of other forum members as to what date they placed their order, and absurd speculative statements concerning when you or others might expect to receive their orders.
Tom Fineis is our Director of Sales. He is active on the forums, and has posted on this thread. I am the owner of Raven Concealment Systems, and I have posted on this thread. Tom and I have both made posts for the purpose of explaining the delay and to apologize for missing our delivery estimates. Yet with all your posting activity, you at no time have responded to our posts, nor did you address any of your concerns directly to us in this thread. But since your posts show a growing sense of discontent toward our company, I will address you here directly.
We have been experiencing explosive growth. I would describe it as "drinking from a firehose." As a result, we have slid behind in our order fulfillment. Your order, along with approximately 1600+ other orders, is going out much later than the date you were originally quoted. I take personal responsibility for this, as it was my job to anticipate our ability to process, make, and ship the orders, and to set the "lead time" quotes on the websites and emails. I misjudged both the spike in demand, as well as our ability to meet that demand. For this error, I offer my sincerest apologies.
Your order is late. We do not charge credit cards until orders are completed for shipping. And judging from the vibe of your posts in this thread, it seems that you are already quite unhappy with our company -- and you haven't even touched our product yet. Your order will be ready to ship very soon. If you feel the wait time has been unsatisfactory, or that communication and customer service was lacking, I would be happy to simply cancel your order. Your card would not be charged, and then you would be free to acquire a holster from one of the other excellent manufacturers mentioned elsewhere on this thread.
I can certainly understand being impatient for new gear to arrive, especially when the original quoted date has come and gone. I once waited 8 months for an armor carrier to arrive from a custom gear maker, and it was torture (especially since I had had to pay up front). I appreciate your eagerness to receive your holster, and should you choose to wait for it to arrive I have no doubt you will be exceedingly happy with your purchase.
If for some reason you are dissatisfied once you receive your holster, please ship it back to us and I will happily refund your full purchase price, as well as shipping both directions.
It is my goal to be able to add you to the ranks of satisfied RCS customers. However, if you feel that we have not taken care of you thus far, I would prefer to simply not take your money.
I appreciate your patronage. I ask that you be patient with us.
Thanks to everyone for your continued support. If there are any further questions or concerns, you know where to find us.
CyberM4:
I am curious what sort of bad report you anticipate having to post. You have posted 18 times on this thread alone since 21 April. Your posts have mainly consisted of interrogations of other forum members as to what date they placed their order, and absurd speculative statements concerning when you or others might expect to receive their orders.
Tom Fineis is our Director of Sales. He is active on the forums, and has posted on this thread. I am the owner of Raven Concealment Systems, and I have posted on this thread. Tom and I have both made posts for the purpose of explaining the delay and to apologize for missing our delivery estimates. Yet with all your posting activity, you at no time have responded to our posts, nor did you address any of your concerns directly to us in this thread. But since your posts show a growing sense of discontent toward our company, I will address you here directly.
We have been experiencing explosive growth. I would describe it as "drinking from a firehose." As a result, we have slid behind in our order fulfillment. Your order, along with approximately 1600+ other orders, is going out much later than the date you were originally quoted. I take personal responsibility for this, as it was my job to anticipate our ability to process, make, and ship the orders, and to set the "lead time" quotes on the websites and emails. I misjudged both the spike in demand, as well as our ability to meet that demand. For this error, I offer my sincerest apologies.
Your order is late. We do not charge credit cards until orders are completed for shipping. And judging from the vibe of your posts in this thread, it seems that you are already quite unhappy with our company -- and you haven't even touched our product yet. Your order will be ready to ship very soon. If you feel the wait time has been unsatisfactory, or that communication and customer service was lacking, I would be happy to simply cancel your order. Your card would not be charged, and then you would be free to acquire a holster from one of the other excellent manufacturers mentioned elsewhere on this thread.
I can certainly understand being impatient for new gear to arrive, especially when the original quoted date has come and gone. I once waited 8 months for an armor carrier to arrive from a custom gear maker, and it was torture (especially since I had had to pay up front). I appreciate your eagerness to receive your holster, and should you choose to wait for it to arrive I have no doubt you will be exceedingly happy with your purchase.
If for some reason you are dissatisfied once you receive your holster, please ship it back to us and I will happily refund your full purchase price, as well as shipping both directions.
It is my goal to be able to add you to the ranks of satisfied RCS customers. However, if you feel that we have not taken care of you thus far, I would prefer to simply not take your money.
I appreciate your patronage. I ask that you be patient with us.
Thanks to everyone for your continued support. If there are any further questions or concerns, you know where to find us.
I sent you a PM, it might help ya out a bit.
Ga Shooter
04-30-10, 08:16
CyberM4:
I am curious what sort of bad report you anticipate having to post. You have posted 18 times on this thread alone since 21 April. Your posts have mainly consisted of interrogations of other forum members as to what date they placed their order, and absurd speculative statements concerning when you or others might expect to receive their orders.
Tom Fineis is our Director of Sales. He is active on the forums, and has posted on this thread. I am the owner of Raven Concealment Systems, and I have posted on this thread. Tom and I have both made posts for the purpose of explaining the delay and to apologize for missing our delivery estimates. Yet with all your posting activity, you at no time have responded to our posts, nor did you address any of your concerns directly to us in this thread. But since your posts show a growing sense of discontent toward our company, I will address you here directly.
We have been experiencing explosive growth. I would describe it as "drinking from a firehose." As a result, we have slid behind in our order fulfillment. Your order, along with approximately 1600+ other orders, is going out much later than the date you were originally quoted. I take personal responsibility for this, as it was my job to anticipate our ability to process, make, and ship the orders, and to set the "lead time" quotes on the websites and emails. I misjudged both the spike in demand, as well as our ability to meet that demand. For this error, I offer my sincerest apologies.
Your order is late. We do not charge credit cards until orders are completed for shipping. And judging from the vibe of your posts in this thread, it seems that you are already quite unhappy with our company -- and you haven't even touched our product yet. Your order will be ready to ship very soon. If you feel the wait time has been unsatisfactory, or that communication and customer service was lacking, I would be happy to simply cancel your order. Your card would not be charged, and then you would be free to acquire a holster from one of the other excellent manufacturers mentioned elsewhere on this thread.
I can certainly understand being impatient for new gear to arrive, especially when the original quoted date has come and gone. I once waited 8 months for an armor carrier to arrive from a custom gear maker, and it was torture (especially since I had had to pay up front). I appreciate your eagerness to receive your holster, and should you choose to wait for it to arrive I have no doubt you will be exceedingly happy with your purchase.
If for some reason you are dissatisfied once you receive your holster, please ship it back to us and I will happily refund your full purchase price, as well as shipping both directions.
It is my goal to be able to add you to the ranks of satisfied RCS customers. However, if you feel that we have not taken care of you thus far, I would prefer to simply not take your money.
I appreciate your patronage. I ask that you be patient with us.
Thanks to everyone for your continued support. If there are any further questions or concerns, you know where to find us.
BRAVO!!! I am tired of the whining. We all want our gear fast I know I do but it takes time for quality. Very well written.
Just talked to Tom and canceled my order.
CyberM4:
I am curious what sort of bad report you anticipate having to post. You have posted 18 times on this thread alone since 21 April. Your posts have mainly consisted of interrogations of other forum members as to what date they placed their order, and absurd speculative statements concerning when you or others might expect to receive their orders.
Tom Fineis is our Director of Sales. He is active on the forums, and has posted on this thread. I am the owner of Raven Concealment Systems, and I have posted on this thread. Tom and I have both made posts for the purpose of explaining the delay and to apologize for missing our delivery estimates. Yet with all your posting activity, you at no time have responded to our posts, nor did you address any of your concerns directly to us in this thread. But since your posts show a growing sense of discontent toward our company, I will address you here directly.
We have been experiencing explosive growth. I would describe it as "drinking from a firehose." As a result, we have slid behind in our order fulfillment. Your order, along with approximately 1600+ other orders, is going out much later than the date you were originally quoted. I take personal responsibility for this, as it was my job to anticipate our ability to process, make, and ship the orders, and to set the "lead time" quotes on the websites and emails. I misjudged both the spike in demand, as well as our ability to meet that demand. For this error, I offer my sincerest apologies.
Your order is late. We do not charge credit cards until orders are completed for shipping. And judging from the vibe of your posts in this thread, it seems that you are already quite unhappy with our company -- and you haven't even touched our product yet. Your order will be ready to ship very soon. If you feel the wait time has been unsatisfactory, or that communication and customer service was lacking, I would be happy to simply cancel your order. Your card would not be charged, and then you would be free to acquire a holster from one of the other excellent manufacturers mentioned elsewhere on this thread.
I can certainly understand being impatient for new gear to arrive, especially when the original quoted date has come and gone. I once waited 8 months for an armor carrier to arrive from a custom gear maker, and it was torture (especially since I had had to pay up front). I appreciate your eagerness to receive your holster, and should you choose to wait for it to arrive I have no doubt you will be exceedingly happy with your purchase.
If for some reason you are dissatisfied once you receive your holster, please ship it back to us and I will happily refund your full purchase price, as well as shipping both directions.
It is my goal to be able to add you to the ranks of satisfied RCS customers. However, if you feel that we have not taken care of you thus far, I would prefer to simply not take your money.
I appreciate your patronage. I ask that you be patient with us.
Thanks to everyone for your continued support. If there are any further questions or concerns, you know where to find us.
Nicely stated Mike, FAR more eloquent than I would have been.
He should try dealing w/a Custom Pistolsmith sometime....ie:
the Les Baer school....do you want it quick or right?
As far as cancelled orders...drive on...we all move up a spot...:p
I did not cancel because I don't like their product. The holster for the G19 is great. If Bob had said they wouldnt go out in time then I wouldve ordered something else last week, no hard feelings. The host of Aim Fast Hit Fast in OKC said he had some comp-tacs and offered to sell it to me when I get down there tomorrow.
I did not cancel because I don't like their product. The holster for the G19 is great. If Bob had said they wouldnt go out in time then I wouldve ordered something else last week, no hard feelings. The host of Aim Fast Hit Fast in OKC said he had some comp-tacs and offered to sell it to me when I get down there tomorrow.
Johnson,
Thanks for the communications today. I looked up your information and see we missed your modification email. We do our best to take every call and every email, but given the volume in our inbox, every now and then a message will slip through. As hard as we try, we're still human.
We have refunded your order but are still sending you your carrier. It won't be there in time for class, and for that I apologize, but it should be waiting for you at home when you get back.
If I can be of further assistance, please contact me.
Thanks,
Tom
I did not cancel because I don't like their product. The holster for the G19 is great. If Bob had said they wouldnt go out in time then I wouldve ordered something else last week, no hard feelings. The host of Aim Fast Hit Fast in OKC said he had some comp-tacs and offered to sell it to me when I get down there tomorrow.
Did you really not have a holster at all? What are you carrying in every day?
I admit, I've been in the position in the past of wanting something to arrive before a class, but I can't recall ever being SOL for a class, especially a class that gets booked months in advance, because I don't have something.
:confused:
Thank you Tom for the service. I just placed another order.
Jay Cunningham
04-30-10, 10:21
Let's keep this thread on topic.
Johnson,
Thanks for the communications today. I looked up your information and see we missed your modification email. We do our best to take every call and every email, but given the volume in our inbox, every now and then a message will slip through. As hard as we try, we're still human.
We have refunded your order but are still sending you your carrier. It won't be there in time for class, and for that I apologize, but it should be waiting for you at home when you get back.
If I can be of further assistance, please contact me.
Thanks,
Tom
And that is why, my money and my patience will go to RCS. Top notch customer service, they will make it right.
Good on you guys.
Here is the Phantom for my G19. Havent tried it IWB yet but will get the loops with the next order.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/johnson_n/IMG_1910-1.jpg
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m127/johnson_n/IMG_1911.jpg
I placed another order the beginning of March and in the weeks afterwards I wanted to make some slight mods to it. I contacted Tom via PM here and sent an email to Jay/Mike/Tom via the website. I was contacted by Tom via PM here within the hour. Jay got to me very quickly as always and had no problems with updating my order even though I was a PITA changing it a couple times. They are truly busting their asses to help us out. I would like to publicly thank them here for they are doing what they can to make the process better each and every day. The level or support and communication was very satisfactory.
I know with any business there are going to be bumps in the road as we've seen by some incidents posted here, but the difference between a regular company and Raven's are the above and beyond things we've seen and I've personally witnessed myself to make the situation right. I know how a small business operates and this is how you treat customers and/or clients in order to stay in business. Your word and integrity are all you have and by standing up for those ideals makes doing the right thing all that more rewarding. In the end you're always going to have to deal with people. Some will understand and some won't.
I have to say I'm a big fan of Raven Concealment. My first order was last year and it was a custom order. They did a great job and I recently made another order. I changed the billing credit card info once ( ID Theft issue) and I changed my mind on my gun/ light combo three times. My holster showed up yesterday and it's amazing. I'm actually heading into work early to get some trigger time. After years of dealing with holster companies, I've had my order screwed up many times. I wouldn't hesitate to order again!!!
Good on raven, great CS im my book, i want to order wrong stuff call have it changed cancel and then still get it for free...... awesome stuff:D
Update on my order:
Emailed Tom Monday to check status, and found out there was a small administrative issue with my order. Got it resolved via phone Tuesday, and got the shipping notification today. Great CS as far as I'm concerned.
I made a couple of tweaks via email with Jay to my order, so now I just hope that with their high volume those changes did make it into the order that was shipped, but from my experience so far I'm confident it will arrive correct.
SW-Shooter
04-30-10, 23:12
I am a big fan of Comp-Tac, and I own 5 of their holsters. But they just don't cater to those of us that need something a bit more specialized. They just don't produce an IWB with light mounted.
Raven Concealment is the only company that I know of that makes the particular IWB holster that I need. I will order from Raven when I get paid on the 7th, pretty much due to the 2 gentlemen from RC that posted in this thread. It's kind of hard not to support those guys.
Just put in my order today. Anxious that it gets here soon, but know if you want something done right the first time its takes a bit of time.
On another sight that I belong too. I have recommend RCS for guys who are looking for a Holster with light. I don't know who else makes Kydex with light. I did call Jay a month ago and asked about laser setup. He told me they could but the guy I told about never got back too me. So I don't know if he ever called Raven.
Blade-Tech makes a holster that will accomodate a light.
I had a Raven Phantom for my 226 w/ X300. I like the quality of the holster but it was a little too wide for me on my hip. What I really like, though, was how close the Raven holds the gun to your body. Whether you are using OWB or IWB it's a very slim profile. I still use a Raven double mag pouch for plain clothes duty and court appearances. Can't even tell they're there.
Anyway, I just ordered a Phantom for my 220. I don't carry it with a mounted light so I think this one will fit me much better.
Final update-
My order arrived today, and everything is as it should be.
Ordered 2/19
Shipped 4/30
Arrived 5/3
Along the way I've had outstanding service from both Jay and Tom, despite making changes to my order after it was placed. I will definitely be ordering again.
Jay Cunningham
05-06-10, 15:29
I adjusted my Phantom holster so that the cant is evened out and it rides more straight up-and-down. *Much* better configuration, and if I pull the holster round back a little with my weak hand I can indeed draw from it WHO.
65 days and counting on a coyote G19 MD cut.
I received my Phantom this past Monday. So far so good. Next weekend I'll take it too the range. Plus I'll have more wear time on it.
so far like mine. great owb but way to bulky iwb with the light
PrivateCitizen
05-08-10, 16:05
There seem to be few good shots of the back of the Phantoms.
Can anyone drop a good photo of a MD vs Regular cut on the body side?
The RC site mentions they are shorter, but not really getting a good idea.
Additionally, anyone have experience with the paddle version?
SW-Shooter
05-08-10, 18:29
I went ahead and placed my order, 70-85 days out. I went with the standard cut over the Magpul cut, I wasn't quite sure of the difference so I went with what I could see the most pictures of.
My recommendation would be to post more photo's with a clear description, the website is seriously lacking clear, defined description with photo's. With a company that has such a huge demand, I think a comprehensive website is very important. When I get my holster I'd volunteer to submit quality photo's.
so far like mine. great owb but way to bulky iwb with the light
Interesting, as I find the Raven I have for the G19 with light to be very comfortable IWB in the limited time I wore it. It's too long for much seated use but that's more about the light than the holster. I'm converting mine over from the battle belt and will use it for carry with the light all the time.
What pistol/light combo was yours for?
Robb Jensen
05-08-10, 19:55
I have four Raven holsters.
All are black and right handed one each for a Glock 17, Glock 19, S&W M&P45 and for a 1911 w/rail. All are great and very comfortable holsters. One of these days I'll get the kits to make a couple of them IWB holsters. That reminds me I need to order one for my new Ruger LCR w/CTC laser.
Just ordered 300+ dollars in raven gear, couple holsters, couple mag carriers, cuff case ect.
love the stuff...its like crack.
Thanks for the kind words guys.
We have a new website in the works. Our current system is a bit outdated but still functional. We are putting a lot of time and money into our new site and it will kick some serious ass when it's up. Stay tuned. :)
In the meantime, we have pictures and a description of the MD cut at www.ravenconcealment.com.
SW-Shooter
05-10-10, 21:25
The level of customer service that this company provides is simply inspiring. Even though I just placed an order that is approx 70 days out, I will place another one to replace an MTAC. Now I'll have IWB holsters that I can attach a light to for my 2 primary conceal carry guns. Kudos Mr. Fineis!
Got mine today! Given the service, I would probably order again if their product suited my needs at the time.
Got my phantom the other day for my Glock 34. Can't remember when I ordered it, don't really care. Maybe 2-2 1/2 months til I got it. Carries great, I'm carrying OWB. With my build and style of dress it works great. I'm glad I read through the thread to find out what the MD cut was before I ordered another for my M&P.
Kentucky Cop
05-13-10, 15:07
Got my phantom the other day for my Glock 34. Can't remember when I ordered it, don't really care. Maybe 2-2 1/2 months til I got it. Carries great, I'm carrying OWB. With my build and style of dress it works great. I'm glad I read through the thread to find out what the MD cut was before I ordered another for my M&P.
Hey rider, are you running a MD cut with the G34 or just ordering one for the M&P. Just curious. I am up in the air on which "cut" to got with.
Ky Cop
Sierrahotel83
05-13-10, 15:26
I am glad I read thru this thread as I wanted to know what the difference between the standard and the MD cut were and couldn't find it... Now to decide which light to get and order a tan Phantom LC Magpul cut for my XD 9 Tactical.:cool:
Hey rider, are you running a MD cut with the G34 or just ordering one for the M&P. Just curious. I am up in the air on which "cut" to got with.
Ky Cop
I have the standard cut on the one I just received, and I stayed with it for the one I just ordered for my M&P. The website explains the reasoning behind the MD cut as having to do with the type of grip Haley and Costa use in their draw. I didn't notice the standard cut affecting my grip/draw, and the higher shirt guard on the standard cut works for my regular style of dress, which is an untucked Dickies pocket T tucked behind the shirt guard, and a Dickies button down work shirt as a covering garment.
PrivateCitizen
05-13-10, 16:22
Can some post a pic of this MD cut?
The photo on the site is illegible.
SW-Shooter
05-13-10, 18:12
After looking at the very limited pictures on the website, I changed my order to the MD cut. It seems to be a touch better alternative than the big plastic sweat guard prodding you in you side. I usually wear an undergarment (t-shirt) and I wipe my carry gun down daily so a little sweat on the slide won't be an issue.
At least for me the sweatguard does not bother me. Which I thought would.
SW-Shooter
05-13-10, 18:24
At least for me the sweatguard does not bother me. Which I thought would.
How about while driving?
Not for me.
...Unless I'm doing the gangsta lean.:cool:
Guys,
The sweat shield will not affect you at all when wearing the gun. It goes to the top of the slide, so even with the kydex trimmed back a bit, your gun is still there. If the kydex poked you in the side, now your gun/rear sight will be. Essentially, it is a non issue.
The biggest change from the Standard to the MD Cut is the change in cant. My standard recommendation is the Standard cut if guys are carrying behind the hip, and the MD Cut if they are carrying on or in front of the hip (the way Chris and Travis do, which is the reasoning behind this design).
That said, the cant of a holster is a personal choice, there is no right or wrong answer. I'm a smaller guy and find it easier to conceal a gun that is canted forward. A standard holster can be adjusted to a 5, 10, or 15 degree cant by moving the belt hardware around. I typically recommend starting at 10, and adjusting from there.
The MD Cut is a great holster and serves its purpose, I just hope guys are ordering it to fill a need they have, not just because it is the new and popular thing. We build gear to allow you to hide a life saving tool, and we want that to work as well as it possibly can for you. I have had some guys order an MD Cut, receive it, and realize it doesn't conceal as well in the 4oclock position as their canted Phantom (and vice versa, from guys who prefer the neutral cant).
This post is in no way an attempt to persuade anybody to one design or another. It is simply background information on the ideas behind these holsters and where each one excels. Do your research and select the one that will fit your needs best. Mission drives the gear.
As for pictures, I will take some better shots tomorrow and get them uploaded.
If anyone wishes to get further into this discussion or recommendations on what might work best for their specific needs, my communication lines are always open. Shoot me an email or give me a ring during business hours and we will get you squared away.
I wear my standard cut at the 3:00 position and I think it conceals great, and I'm carrying a full size G34 in it. I like the higher shirt guard for re-holstering.
Tom, I appreciate you taking the time to come here and answer everyone's questions in such detail. Excellent customer service. Now get off here and go make some holsters. :D
Jay Cunningham
05-13-10, 22:45
The MD Cut is a great holster and serves its purpose, I just hope guys are ordering it to fill a need they have, not just because it is the new and popular thing. We build gear to allow you to hide a life saving tool, and we want that to work as well as it possibly can for you. I have had some guys order an MD Cut, receive it, and realize it doesn't conceal as well in the 4oclock position as their canted Phantom (and vice versa, from guys who prefer the neutral cant).
This here is good, honest advice.
Tom, I appreciate you taking the time to come here and answer everyone's questions in such detail. Excellent customer service. Now get off here and go make some holsters. :D
You don't want me making your holster, trust me. I leave the masters to their work and they leave me to mine. I am much better put to use on the CS/PR campaign. :D
Now that's dedication to BREAST cancer awareness right there!!!:D
sorry, a little late...but maybe micheal should get with the susan komen foundation for some endorsement!:p
SW-Shooter
05-14-10, 02:09
You don't want me making your holster, trust me. I leave the masters to their work and they leave me to mine. I am much better put to use on the CS/PR campaign. :D
Mr. Fineis,
Is there any way that one could retain the cant of the standard holster but have the same cut as the MD? Sort of a hybrid of both.
I've since changed my order from the standard to the MD, and now I'm more unsure of that decision than ever. I usually carry at about 2:30 with a very light cant, but that's a G30. The holster I ordered is for a G21 with light, so I know appendix carry is out of the question. I'll have to wear this at 4:00, but I think I'll need some bit of forward cant in order to establish a faster more instinctive grip. I think this is where the standard cut will help. I hope I'm not wrong.
Mr. Fineis,
Is there any way that one could retain the cant of the standard holster but have the same cut as the MD? Sort of a hybrid of both.
I've since changed my order from the standard to the MD, and now I'm more unsure of that decision than ever. I usually carry at about 2:30 with a very light cant, but that's a G30. The holster I ordered is for a G21 with light, so I know appendix carry is out of the question. I'll have to wear this at 4:00, but I think I'll need some bit of forward cant in order to establish a faster more instinctive grip. I think this is where the standard cut will help. I hope I'm not wrong.
The only difference in "cut" between the two holsters is the rear body shield. Part of the MD Cut package is to reduce the length of the body shield on the inside edge of the holster. This is available on the website.
There are no other differences other than the cant of the gun and the body shield between an MD holster and a Standard.
Here are some pics that may explain this better. This isn't the best comparison, as one is an LC holster and one a non-LC, but it is what I had available to get uploaded immediately.
Standard on the left, MD cut on the right.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1296/4606142631_68a0cf47f1_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1002/4606759164_af2a7c3ea6_b.jpg
PrivateCitizen
05-14-10, 10:24
Great, TY, Tom.
I have one just recently on order … a regular, no light.
I will likely use it solo OWB and not need the sweat guard, so I might consider lopping the top off myself.
I'm sure it is a sacrilege to cut on a RCS Phantom … :p
I do not think for this particular purchase I'd want the straight drop. I'd consider it for a first line belt though.
I'm not suggesting RCS change anything … busy enough as it is.
Who knows, the guard might not bother me at all.
Thanks again for the pics!
We've been selling the Standard Phantom for 5-6 years now. Until recently, only a very small percentage of our customers inquired about removing/reducing the sweat shield. If it was an issue, we would have never released it that way. We're Raven Concealment...we introduce innovative holster designs after they have been thoroughly tested and been put through rigorous R&D steps. If it's available on our website, you can bet that it will perform for you.
You'll notice only one of those holsters has my name on it. The MD Cut Phantom is a demo holster, the Coyote one is my personal rig. I've been carrying a Phantom in standard configuration for over 3 years now, long before I was working for RCS, and I can have them built any way I wish. I prefer the full sweat shield and a slight forward cant.
Take care,
For what it's worth, the only reason I can see to not have the sweat shield is if you're mounting it to a MOLLE or other battle belt. While the shield only mimics the size/shape of the gun, when the gun is not in the holster I find the shields to be more of a discomfort potential than when the gun is out of the holster or when the holster is close to the body.
PrivateCitizen
05-14-10, 10:52
We've been selling the Standard Phantom for 5-6 years now. Until recently, only a very small percentage of our customers inquired about removing/reducing the sweat shield. If it was an issue, we would have never released it that way. We're Raven Concealment...we introduce innovative holster designs after they have been thoroughly tested and been put through rigorous R&D steps. If it's available on our website, you can bet that it will perform for you.
You'll notice only one of those holsters has my name on it. The MD Cut Phantom is a demo holster, the Coyote one is my personal rig. I've been carrying a Phantom in standard configuration for over 3 years now, long before I was working for RCS, and I can have them built any way I wish. I prefer the full sweat shield and a slight forward cant.
Take care,
Just to clarify, I was not at all suggesting RCS do anything different or that product was in anyway deficient.
SW-Shooter
05-14-10, 11:29
Fell free to slap me around a little, umm would you please change my order one more time? Pretty please. Thank you.
ill trade my glock19 with extended barrel and tlr-1 phantom for a glock 19 standard.
The only difference in "cut" between the two holsters is the rear body shield. Part of the MD Cut package is to reduce the length of the body shield on the inside edge of the holster. This is available on the website.
There are no other differences other than the cant of the gun and the body shield between an MD holster and a Standard.
Here are some pics that may explain this better. This isn't the best comparison, as one is an LC holster and one a non-LC, but it is what I had available to get uploaded immediately.
Standard on the left, MD cut on the right.
Tom,
Thanks for the detail photos! I'm about 40 days in on one order and 30 days in on 2 other orders, I can't wait!!
Just ordered the other day for my M&P/X300. Now I get to play the waiting game. Guess I will have to put the old one (M&PFS/TRL-1) up for sale, someone will be happy with it for sure.
Any commentary on using the Phantom LC version (the one for a light) when your weapon doesn't have the light attached? Does this result in not being able to keep the gun stable in the holster? Just trying to think if I want to order one with or without the light feature.
Any commentary on using the Phantom LC version (the one for a light) when your weapon doesn't have the light attached? Does this result in not being able to keep the gun stable in the holster? Just trying to think if I want to order one with or without the light feature.
mine will retain on the gun only (5" m&p). It retains better than my ctac does actually. I don't believe that is the intent though so inwonr rely on it for the time being.
I have one for an M&P .45 mid+TLR-3, and it will not retain the pistol w/o light.
May be a roll-of-the-dice sort of thing, since the design is focused on retaining the light IOT retain the gun.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=53954
Ga Shooter
05-15-10, 06:46
Tom,
I have a standard Phantom and love it along with a double mag pouch for a Glock 36. It really is a great design and super comfortable. I have a question/suggestion. As you mentioned earlier you can change the cant and heigth of the holster by playing around with the belt attachments. Would it be possible to make a chart with the different postions? I think this may help some of the people while they are making their decisions and will save people time while they are playing with them. Thanks again for a great product. Keep up the good work.
All,
The Phantom LC is not designed to be carried without the light mounted. The holster, being a rigid material, is not going to save you any size by simply removing the light. We see no reason to carry with the light sometimes, and not carry it at other times. Basically, if you can conceal the slightly larger LC holster, you can conceal your lighted gun.
We have a large customer base who uses our gear for competition use as well as concealed carry. Some competition circuits do not allow a weapon mounted light, or move the shooter into a different division. While our holster works great for competition use, it is designed and built as real world gear for self defense use. We will always cater to the guys who strap on a gun every time they leave the house. For those who need both a carry rig and competition rig, a secondary Phantom or our minimalist Ghost holster are both good choices.
Ga Shooter,
Thanks for the input. We have a lot planned for our new website. Stay tuned. :)
If someone is looking for a Raven holster for the G19 you better hurry up: https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54080
SeriousStudent
05-16-10, 21:31
Already gone. It didn't last 20 minutes.
A Twinkie would have a better chance of surviving longer at Rosie O'Donnell's house. :D
still wanting to trade my g19 with tlr-1 for just a g19
SW-Shooter
05-20-10, 16:25
Reread the thread and want to keep it close to page 1.
Thank you Tom and the rest of the staff @ Raven.
I just received my order today, right on schedule..
I have a total of three Phantom holsters and three mag pouch assys.
now, and could not be happier with the quality and function of the Raven products. Ravens Customer Service is second only(maybe) to Larue Tactical (IMHO) and THAT is outstanding company to keep.
Thank you Tom and the rest of the staff @ Raven.
I just received my order today, right on schedule..
I have a total of three Phantom holsters and three mag pouch assys.
now, and could not be happier with the quality and function of the Raven products. Ravens Customer Service is second only(maybe) to Larue Tactical (IMHO) and THAT is outstanding company to keep.
Sparkman,
When did you order/receive?
Sparkman,
Please check PM's.
http://www.themalabarfront.com/product_info.php?cPath=82_89_99&products_id=1483
Anyone have any experience with using the BUG holster that attaches to the mag carrier? Thinking about getting one for my P32.
Anyone?
*crickets*
I've run one, works like a Phantom for a much smaller gun. I'm biased, but I like it. :)
QuietShootr
05-24-10, 15:03
A big +1000 to Raven. I have had my Phantom for M&P45C and double mag carrier for several months now, and I have been wearing it 8+ hours a day for that time. It's the most concealable OWB holster I've ever owned. I will be getting more of them.
See you guys at the 1500!
I ordered a dual Mag Holder for my HK45 today from RCS
I've run one, works like a Phantom for a much smaller gun. I'm biased, but I like it. :)
Does it just feel like you have another mag carrier there or does it feel bigger than that?
I just took delivery of my G17/X300 phantom.
I've only done about 45 min of dry presentations and manipulations, but I'm really liking this setup so far. I'm using the IWB overhooks, and can't believe how well it conceals the G17 + light.
The biggest surprise is how comfortable it is. After almost five years of EDCing the G17 in a Sidearmor, I've now found a setup that is actually comfortable, instead of just tolerable.
Looking forward to doing some live fire tomorrow.
Does it just feel like you have another mag carrier there or does it feel bigger than that?
I can tell very little difference between the dual mag carrier and the single carrier + BUG setup. It's a bit wider, but the piggybacked items have a bit of flex so they are still comfortable.
Oh man, the wait is getting TOUGH! :)
i love my raven for my XD, so much that I went and order another for my XD with tac light and one for my G27...need to order another for my USP and my AR mags
how about that Battale Chassis i've been reading about in another thread??? hint hint hint
Oh man, the wait is getting TOUGH! :)
That's the hard part. As long as you have something too hold you until it arrives.
That's the hard part. As long as you have something too hold you until it arrives.
I'm about to hit my 60 day mark shortly. Whew!
I'm about to hit my 60 day mark shortly. Whew!
Don't feel bad - I'm only on Day 12....... :(
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