View Full Version : U.S. Consult workers murdered in Mexico near the Texas Border.
Mauser KAR98K
03-15-10, 22:26
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/11eba30c-2fbb-11df-9153-00144feabdc0.html
US citizens shot dead by Mexican drug gangs
By Adam Thomson in Mexico City
Published: March 14 2010 22:53 | Last updated: March 14 2010 22:53
Three people with links to the US consulate in the Mexican border city of Ciudad Juárez were gunned down at the weekend by “drug cartel hit teams”, according to a US official.
A consulate employee and her husband, both US citizens, were murdered while driving in the violent border city, which neighbours El Paso, Texas. Their baby daughter, who was sitting in the back seat, survived the attack.
In a separate incident the husband of a Mexican consulate employee was killed while driving through the city, one of the world’s most violent. According to media reports, his two children were injured in the attack.
On Sunday Mike Hammer, the White House National Security Council spokesman, said Barack Obama, US president, was “deeply saddened and outraged” by the news of the killings.
Mexico’s foreign ministry issued a statement condemning the murders and promised to work with the US government to investigate the crime. “Mexican authorities will work tirelessly to throw light on the circumstances surrounding the crime,” it said.
The murders come as Mexico suffers a wave of violence associated with the government’s war on organised crime, which it has made its policy cornerstone.
At the weekend, local media reported the murder of 31 people in and around the Pacific-coast beach resort of Acapulco in what are believed to be drug-related murders. At least two of the victims were found decapitated.
The crimewave has provoked the US to issue travel warnings for citizens planning on visiting Mexico’s border cities. On Sunday the US state department announced that its diplomats working in six northern Mexico cities were told they could send family members home.
But so far this year, Ciudad Juárez has borne the brunt of the crime. During the first two months of 2010, 410 people were murdered in the sprawling, industrial city. Last year there were 2,600 murders in the city, which has a population of 1.3m.
Felipe Calderón, Mexico’s centre-right president, has sent thousands of troops to patrol the city’s streets in the past 12 months in an attempt to restore order.
But federal police officers and military personnel complain they do not have sufficient intelligence to combat the crime groups effectively.
A recent poll showed that the violence was taking its toll on the government, with Mr Calderón’s image as a leader at 47 per cent – the lowest point since he took office in December 2006.
Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2010. Print a single copy of this article for personal use. Contact us if you wish to print more to distribute to others.
We need to start urging our law makers to help Mexico with this worsening problem that is way too close to home. And with help I mean fronting more than just aid and material...I mean specialist to track and kill Cartels. I know that they are like roaches when you attempt this, but you can create a brief moment of peace between infestations.
GermanSynergy
03-15-10, 22:30
Sad news. However, I think that our current administration will use this is a catalyst to drive for another AWB, rather than take direct action against the parties responsible for the attacks.
Sad news. However, I think that our current administration will use this is a catalyst to drive for another AWB, rather than take direct action against the parties responsible for the attacks.
You might be right. What we need to do is send in a MEU and just **** up the area. Then again would anyone notice?
Sad news. However, I think that our current administration will use this is a catalyst to drive for another AWB, rather than take direct action against the parties responsible for the attacks.
The current administration is well aware of the fact that passing an AWB is the biggest political failure they could hope to accomplish at this point in time.
I wouldn't get so worked up and insist on responding to these kinds of posts if it wasn't for how people like yourself, and your over reactions have driven up the cost of my damn ammo so much!!! You all freak out, and the cost of an AR goes from semi-affordable to not, then after you take a deep breath things start to slow down a bit, but does ammo go back down??? No! You all should be required to melt your tinfoil hats down for ammo as punishment!
Let's look at the realities of the first AWB:
We had a president who was watching the cities fall apart and was still witnessing the fallout of the crack cocaine epidemic. Inner city violence was rife. Hell a German tourist got shot in the head from a stray bullet three blocks from the NYC public library in midtown (if you have been to midtown today you'll realize how different it is). Gangsta Rap had taken the young white suburban kids by storm. Two years prior to the ban the LA riots had taken place. The entire nation was terrified that the Bloods and Crips were going to come into their neighborhoods and start doing drive by shootings.
The first AWB was put into place as a way to prove to the populace that the federal government was tackling the gang problem.
Fast forward to 2010:
Obama wins the first democratic presidency since Clinton. While you may think what you want about him (I have my own dislikes, and the list is long) he isn't stupid. No one that wins a presidential seat is (even if they choke on a pretzel). He also has the first democratic majority since the AWB. History has shown that one of the reasons for the Republican Revolution of Clintons first term was the AWB and the attacks on the 2nd amendment. So why, really, honestly, why in hell would Obama think that an AWB is a good idea right now? He's not the anti christ, he's just another politician that want's to keep power no matter what (just like all politicians before him). Passing an AWB in this political climate would be political suicide. I may not like him, but he's not that f-ing stupid.
So stop spreading internet rumors I'm sick of paying high end for my ammo damn it!
The current administration is well aware of the fact that passing an AWB is the biggest political failure they could hope to accomplish at this point in time.
I wouldn't get so worked up and insist on responding to these kinds of posts if it wasn't for how people like yourself, and your over reactions have driven up the cost of my damn ammo so much!!! You all freak out, and the cost of an AR goes from semi-affordable to not, then after you take a deep breath things start to slow down a bit, but does ammo go back down??? No! You all should be required to melt your tinfoil hats down for ammo as punishment!
Let's look at the realities of the first AWB:
We had a president who was watching the cities fall apart and was still witnessing the fallout of the crack cocaine epidemic. Inner city violence was rife. Hell a German tourist got shot in the head from a stray bullet three blocks from the NYC public library in midtown (if you have been to midtown today you'll realize how different it is). Gangsta Rap had taken the young white suburban kids by storm. Two years prior to the ban the LA riots had taken place. The entire nation was terrified that the Bloods and Crips were going to come into their neighborhoods and start doing drive by shootings.
The first AWB was put into place as a way to prove to the populace that the federal government was tackling the gang problem.
Fast forward to 2010:
Obama wins the first democratic presidency since Clinton. While you may think what you want about him (I have my own dislikes, and the list is long) he isn't stupid. No one that wins a presidential seat is (even if they choke on a pretzel). He also has the first democratic majority since the AWB. History has shown that one of the reasons for the Republican Revolution of Clintons first term was the AWB and the attacks on the 2nd amendment. So why, really, honestly, why in hell would Obama think that an AWB is a good idea right now? He's not the anti christ, he's just another politician that want's to keep power no matter what (just like all politicians before him). Passing an AWB in this political climate would be political suicide. I may not like him, but he's not that f-ing stupid.
So stop spreading internet rumors I'm sick of paying high end for my ammo damn it!
That was great! Highly entertaining.
GermanSynergy
03-15-10, 23:02
The current administration is well aware of the fact that passing an AWB is the biggest political failure they could hope to accomplish at this point in time.
I would get so worked up and insist on responding to these kinds of posts if it wasn't for how people like yourself, and your over reactions have driven up the cost of my damn ammo so much!!! You all freak out, and the cost of an AR goes from affordable to not, then after you take a deep breath things start to slow down a bit, but does ammo go back down??? No!
Let's look at the realities of the first AWB:
You had a president who was watching the inner cities fall apart and was still witnessing the fallout of the crack cocaine epidemic. Inner city violence was rife. Hell a German tourist got shot in the head from a stray bullet three blocks from the NYC public library in mid town (if you have been to midtown today you'll realize how different it is). Gangsta Rap had taken the young white suburban kids by storm. Two years prior to the ban the LA riots had taken place. The entire nation was terrified of that the Bloods and Crips were going to come into their neighborhoods and start doing drive by shootings.
The first AWB was put into place as a way to prove to the populace that the federal government was tackling the gang problem.
Fast forward to 2010:
Obama wins the first democratic presidency since Clinton. While you may think what you want about him (I have my own dislikes, and the list is long) he isn't stupid. No one that wins a presidential seat is (even if they choke on a pretzel). He also has a democratic majority. History has shown that one of the reasons of the Republican Revolution of Clintons first term was the AWB and the attacks on the 2nd amendment. So why, really, honestly, why in hell would Obama think that an AWB is a good idea right now? He's not the anti christ, he's just another politician that want's to keep power no matter what (just like all politicians before him). Passing an AWB in this political climate would be political suicide. I may not like him, but he's not that f-ing stupid.
So stop spreading internet rumors I'm sick of paying high end for my ammo damn it!
Nice rant. I still stand by my assertion. I'm well aware of the political implications regarding another AWB. If you're following current events at all, you'll notice the Democrats trying to ram through a piece of dubious health care legislation, much to the consternation of the voting populace.
As for my assertion being mere "internet rumor", here's some light reading for you:
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=4632
If you wish to engage in further debate, please PM me. I don't want this gentleman's thread to turn into a pissing match.
That was great! Highly entertaining.
Thanks I try... I think internet politics are a joke.
Me: "The sky is blue today."
Right Wing Internet Community: "We told you global warming doesn't exist! @sshole!"
Left Wing Internet Community" "We told you global warming exists! @sshole!"
Me: "A guy is killed today."
Right Wing: "Obama is going to end us"
Left Wing: "Tea Baggers are going to end us"
If anyone wants to join the Realist party we're actually trying to start it. The first rule though is no gut or knee jerk reactions.
Mauser KAR98K
03-16-10, 02:26
Dmcmanus: Though I like your points that the sky isn't falling as fast as people make it out, my original intent of this post to know what solutions (aside from our current President and Congress to grow a set, and possibly even a different, stiffer spine) to solve this growing situation beyond the fence of our backyard.
However, I will point out that as smart as Obama is, he is also very arrogant and will push for an AWB just because he's the second coming, and he has the power.
On to the article: I suggest writing to the Armed Services Committee, or just your local representative --will that they even listen-- that more than diplomacy and feeding money to a government that can't manage their own affairs is needed to keep us from using our own weapons to protect us from an invading army of Cartel thugs. It's time to get down and dirty the way these hit squads have been operating, and clean house. Most of all, send a clear message we have had enough.
It seems with some of the major traction that has been slowing this disastrous health-care bill from becoming law through our outcries, we can possibly start putting pressure on our boarders.
EzGoingKev
03-16-10, 07:08
President Obama is outraged.
I'll bet that means he is about to open up a can of kiss-ass.
The loss of life is horrible, especially for the kiddos, but you shouldn't have your children in a war zone. Look at the root cause of the problem, it all boils down to supply & demand. The prohibition of alcohol was a failure and so is the prohibition of drugs.
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. - George Santayana
Look at the root cause of the problem, it all boils down to supply & demand.
I disagree. The cause of the specific problem here, not the drug problem in general, is a repressed people that can not stand up to the criminal element in their own country because they will not stand up to the corrupt government that rules them. At some point the people have to rise up and take control of their own destiny no matter the consequences.
The US has the same drug problem, albeit from the demand side, but we rarely, and only then briefly, let those in it exact any amount of fear or control over the population in general before we retaliate. Mexicans don't seem to have that same sense of independence or the freedom to do so.
Illegal activities and the total terrorization of a populous do not go hand in hand unless you allow it to get to that point.
The current administration is well aware of the fact that passing an AWB is the biggest political failure they could hope to accomplish at this point in time.
I wouldn't get so worked up and insist on responding to these kinds of posts if it wasn't for how people like yourself, and your over reactions have driven up the cost of my damn ammo so much!!! You all freak out, and the cost of an AR goes from semi-affordable to not, then after you take a deep breath things start to slow down a bit, but does ammo go back down??? No! You all should be required to melt your tinfoil hats down for ammo as punishment!
Let's look at the realities of the first AWB:
We had a president who was watching the cities fall apart and was still witnessing the fallout of the crack cocaine epidemic. Inner city violence was rife. Hell a German tourist got shot in the head from a stray bullet three blocks from the NYC public library in midtown (if you have been to midtown today you'll realize how different it is). Gangsta Rap had taken the young white suburban kids by storm. Two years prior to the ban the LA riots had taken place. The entire nation was terrified that the Bloods and Crips were going to come into their neighborhoods and start doing drive by shootings.
The first AWB was put into place as a way to prove to the populace that the federal government was tackling the gang problem.
Fast forward to 2010:
Obama wins the first democratic presidency since Clinton. While you may think what you want about him (I have my own dislikes, and the list is long) he isn't stupid. No one that wins a presidential seat is (even if they choke on a pretzel). He also has the first democratic majority since the AWB. History has shown that one of the reasons for the Republican Revolution of Clintons first term was the AWB and the attacks on the 2nd amendment. So why, really, honestly, why in hell would Obama think that an AWB is a good idea right now? He's not the anti christ, he's just another politician that want's to keep power no matter what (just like all politicians before him). Passing an AWB in this political climate would be political suicide. I may not like him, but he's not that f-ing stupid.
So stop spreading internet rumors I'm sick of paying high end for my ammo damn it!
Not to hijack your post, or this thread..but why don't you reload your ammo?? I do, I load ALL of my 9mm.45. .223 .308. 30-06. When you start rolling your own, you stop bending over at the store...
The loss of life is horrible, especially for the kiddos, but you shouldn't have your children in a war zone. Look at the root cause of the problem, it all boils down to supply & demand. The prohibition of alcohol was a failure and so is the prohibition of drugs.
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. - George Santayana
IrishLuck there you go hitting the problem on the head again with logic!
There is no military solution to this as you stated, we simply need to legalize the sale of drugs, and problem goes away. Not to mention the insane amount of money teh government will get on sin taxes.
Not to mention the insane amount of money teh government will get on sin taxes. That and the money saved by disbanding the DEA & rolling their duties into the FDA & IRS. We could probably also save a bit of change disbanding the BATFE & rolling their duties into the IRS and State Law Enforcement as well, but that is a different soap box.
FlyAndFight
03-16-10, 11:43
That and the money saved by disbanding the DEA & rolling their duties into the FDA & IRS. We could probably also save a bit of change disbanding the BATFE & rolling their duties into the IRS and State Law Enforcement as well, but that is a different soap box.
:confused: The IRS should be the first one disbanded. ;)
Belmont31R
03-16-10, 12:04
I find it funny Obama is outraged, and these are the same types he wants to give amnesty and citizenship to.
I've lived close to the southern border most of my life, and the issue is far more reaching than anyone is willing to admit. We have not had a president in my lifetime who has ever taken the issue seriously, and the current one and past one both cater to the Mexicans here, and in Mexico. We send them billions of dollars a year, and spend hundreds of billions in the US caring for their citizens.
We trained the Los Zetas, and through government purchases send them military hardware that ends up being used in the drug wars. We, as gun owners, get blamed.
We trained the Los Zetas, and through government purchases send them military hardware that ends up being used in the drug wars.
Have proof / a link??
I live along the border and cross / work in Mexico as a sales rep. I keep up very closely from contacts on both sides of the river & the news about what's going on in my backyard. Specifically, the Gulf Cartel, Zeta and MS13 ties. NEVER heard of the u.s. arming the Zetas and would love to pass on this tidbit but need something concrete. The Gulf Cartel is now committed to wiping out the zetas...I suspect there will be a big battle between the two in the Reynosa area.
In regards to the OP, Juarez is home to the Sinaloa Cartel but no one has really chimed in on why the consulates were targeted or who was responsible.
I do not know how credible you want to count this source, but the History Channels Gangland stated in their episode on Los Zetas just that.
Basically what the show stated was the Los Zetas started as a result of special forces soldiers in the Mexican military deciding to work for a drug cartel rather then the government. These soldiers were trained by the U.S. military, the equipment came from the Pentagon as a way to counter the drug trade. One cartel (that I don't remember off the top of my head) offered to pay these soldiers more then their government wage and they agreed. They got their name from their radio call sign which was Zetas. They were the enforcement arm of the cartel for years, and then they finally took it over turning it into what it is today.
Belmont31R
03-16-10, 14:03
Have proof / a link??
I live along the border and cross / work in Mexico as a sales rep. I keep up very closely from contacts on both sides of the river & the news about what's going on in my backyard. Specifically, the Gulf Cartel, Zeta and MS13 ties. NEVER heard of the u.s. arming the Zetas and would love to pass on this tidbit but need something concrete. The Gulf Cartel is now committed to wiping out the zetas...I suspect there will be a big battle between the two in the Reynosa area.
In regards to the OP, Juarez is home to the Sinaloa Cartel but no one has really chimed in on why the consulates were targeted or who was responsible.
Los Zetas were part of the Mexican military we trained, and then they deserted, and worked for the cartels. A bit different now, though.
Regards to the weapons a lot of their military is using equipment from the US, and some units are on the cartel dole. Mexican military units have been seen providing cover for drug runners, involved in drug related shoot outs, etc.
I find it funny Obama is outraged, and these are the same types he wants to give amnesty and citizenship to.
I've lived close to the southern border most of my life, and the issue is far more reaching than anyone is willing to admit. We have not had a president in my lifetime who has ever taken the issue seriously, and the current one and past one both cater to the Mexicans here, and in Mexico. We send them billions of dollars a year, and spend hundreds of billions in the US caring for their citizens.
We trained the Los Zetas, and through government purchases send them military hardware that ends up being used in the drug wars. We, as gun owners, get blamed.
Just the founding members, who were former members of the Mexican military's SF units, trained by our SF units. The Zetas have gotten so big now that I'm sure there are plenty of stoolpigeons, fall guys, and general thugs among its ranks.
Again, do we have proof and/or a link?? I don't remember the gangland episode and yes, I'm sure we would have trained or worked with the Mexican Military but to say we trained the zeta's would be front page news down here. It is just misleading to say the U.S. trained zetas if the fact was while they were serving....that is all i'm saying.
The short story for my particular area known as The Plaza
The zetas were formed by a "very small" group AFTER they left the military & quickly grew. They were hired on by the GC to settle disputes with smaller gangs where territory was not established. They were so ruthless and effective that they also were paid by the GC as both low and high profile hitmen. The zetas soon wanted a bigger piece of the pie and tensions grew. About 3 months ago, there were some high ranking zetas that strolled into Reynosa without announcing their arrival. The GC approached them at a hotel and we now have whacked zetas. Leadership of the zeta called for the head of the GC who runs the Reynosa area and GC told them to pound sand.
We've had several shootouts in the area over the past several weeks and it has quieted down substantially. The zetas are rumored to be regrouping in Monterrey and Nuevo Laredo preparing for the big one. Another runor is the zeta's and MS13 may be joining up to tackle goliath. GC has banners all over the cities letting the civi's know the relationship is over and they plan to keep them out of the area.
There are articles everyday in the local paper...hell, 3 grenades were found at the main Reynosa bus station just this morning.
I get what you are saying and you are correct. We didn't train them as Zetas. They were trained when they were in the Mexican military. Like you said, a small cadre of these US SF trained men formed Los Zetas. You live there, and your knowledge of their allegiances, and subsequent power moves all fall in line with everything that I've read relating to work.
I also live on the border, but in AZ where GC isn't the major player this side of the country. I don't know how accurate it is, but I just read something about an alliance between the major cartels known as the Federation.
arbninftry
03-16-10, 15:43
[QUOTE=Artos;602365]Again, do we have proof and/or a link??
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Zetas
The sad shame of this is the murders here on the border have been happening for years.
No offense, but I think he wanted something more concrete than wikipedia. There is no official US govt. backed statement regarding this however (obviously), so if that is what is being sought, it cannot be provided.
The belief that they were trained by us is so common that it is widely accepted as primarily true. It is even repeated in LE circles that operate near the border or have a concern of border related issues.
I don't know how accurate it is, but I just read something about an alliance between the major cartels known as the Federation.
I'm sure this whole deal is hurting the big players bottom dollar & I have heard the same down this way. Basically, get rid of the whacko sub-contractor thugs and get back to dealing w/ the in-fighting.
I'm really concerned about the latest U.S. consulate killings and back to the o.p....if speculation is correct and it is the majors sending a message for the U.S. not to get involved, then you might have to wonder IF the big three (Gulf, sinaloa and juarez) agreed with this hit or not. Heck, what if one of the sub groups like the zetas or ms13 did it just to throw a wrench into the system & irk the big 3??
This is pretty huge...they were chased and gunned down trying to get to the poe With a baby in the back seat. It's All speculation but it's pointing to the narco-traffic in some capacity.
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