View Full Version : Traveling when SHTF
pilotguyo540
03-18-10, 00:07
Hello everyone,
I hope this is an interesting thread.
I travel for work all over the US and Canada, with the occasional trip to Europe.
If the apocalypse, or any other generic SHTF scenario were to begin while I was across the continent, how would I get home to my family and firearms? The major non variables would have to be some level of anarchy or martial law, and a downed transportation system. No airlines, no trains, and lets face it, busses are scary enough without the end of the world.
FYI for you McGuyver types. My basic load out is a rolling duffel bag with cloths, both regular and reflective work clothes. A laptop backpack, and a pelican 1620 case with some basic hand and electrical tools.
What would you do???:eek:
PS, I don't care if McGuyver is spelled wrong:p
first i think i'd inventory that rolling bag and either stash it or dump it and any contents you didn't absolutely NEED. IMHO the rolling bags suck for most uses and encourage overpacking.
reflective work clothes? are you a dancer at Chippendales?
anyway.. the answer is "it all depends" on what kind of SHTF scenario we're hit with.
if air and rail transportation is down, you may end up trying to thumb a ride or buy a vehicle to drive home. if there's a killer flu outbreak or something like that you probably wouldn't want close contact with anyone.
the problem with driving is that some events might create fuel supply problems.
fortunately, most events are regional at most. a hurricane or blizzard can hit a large area covering several states, but help will be coming from outside that area and once you're out of the affected area things return to normal... but there's an area that will be swamped with others leaving the impact zone.
the getting back to my family would be the scariest part in my mind. never mind what i had to do to get there. being in the masonry and concrete business i work on the road at times, and never go unarmed. i bring my Glock 19 as well as 200 rounds of ammo and 4 extra mags.... sleeping in a motel room monday night thru thursday night doesnt exactly give a guy much piece of mind. anyway, im lucky i guess, my oldest daughter and wife know what ammo goes with what firearm, so we ve discussed this, and they know what to grab and head to the farm with. my weapons they are both comfortable with are kept here at home, and the rest of my stuff is at the "designated" meeting place, the land we own. my stepdad is a veteran who lives there with my mother, and i have faith in him to keep them safe until i get back. we own land on a dead end road, and the frontend loader will get parked sideways blocking the only way in unless you decide to cut thru fields and come on foot...but you better be ready to deal with the farmdogs. i hope this is a scenario we never have to truly deal with, but at least we have somewhat of a plan. meanwhile, the small crew i work on is almost all CCW holders also, so we will make it back home. ( 2 of them bring basic AR-15s along as well as a pistol:eek:) we wont work more than 4 hours away from home, thats one of the policies my boss sticks to. anyway, id hate to be in the original posters shoes, that would be a much tougher scenario than mine.
Well the first two things I would do in your position;
Make it your routine to travel with as much cash on hand as you are comfortable with. In the beginning of even the worst event cash will still be good for a while and it will be king. It may cost way more than it would today to make your way home.
Make it a habit to travel armed whenever practical. To include the small hassle of flying with a handgun in checked baggage. Have a CCDW and know what states reciprocate. Even if you aren’t traveling to a reciprocal state or are prohibited from carrying while on company time, travel with the firearm just don't CCDW.
I think those two things will keep you from needlessly being too far behind the curve. Also, have an emergency communication plan with those back home. Internet, E-mail, txt msgs, blackberry msngr, phone messages with others in unaffected areas etc.
I think about this stuff as well.
My grandpa on my mom's side was on the losing end of WWII. He ended up walking home afterwards, from a POW camp in Norway to home in central Germany. I try to be ready at any given time to pull off a similar stunt if need be, otherwise Opa might be disappointed in me for being a pansy.
On road trips I have extra ammo, clothing, a long gun, socks and boots that "are made for walkin", just in case.
On a recent trip to Puerto Rico I took extra 9mm and .38 ball ammo (where you going to find extra ammo in Puerto Rico? "You ain't" is the answer), a large fixed blade knife and a multi-tool, just in case.
On a recent school trip to the PRNJ I did the same.
In the OP's case I'd have a handgun and ammo available, a good knife or two, and clothing that I could be outdoors in, including boots or shoes that I can walk a good long ways in.
.....and cash, or something to trade. A couple of SF guys I know always wore a Rolex, and one reason I was told is that in an emergency one can get a plane ticket to anywhere in the world with a Rolex.
pilotguyo540
03-27-10, 17:28
Good stuff. Now what are the rules for traveling to a different country with a firearm? I know that europe is just about out of the question, but how about canada or puerto rico? Are these places off limit to a regular mechanic with a gun? It would be nice to talk with civilians who have done this before.
I have flown with a gun enough to be comfortable with the procedures. For me it has actually saved me time (about 30 minutes in LAX) to costing me no more than 5 minutes (SAT)
I work outside when I travel so I do have good out door gear for the season. I don't bring any camoi or survival gear. Is this just extra weight or should I change my loadout?
I may be able to bum a ride at a local airport, so staying light is a must, or dropping gear. One advantage I do have is knowing people in all parts of the country for a temp recharge and a safehouse.
Puerto Rico is still the US, I carried there legally under HR218, but I have no idea what a non-cop would need to do to get a gun onto the island, the place is very anti-gun.
Canada is a huge no-go for handguns for Americans, but rifles and/or shotguns can be done due to the amount of hunting traffic back and forth over the border.
pilotguyo540
03-28-10, 00:03
As luck would have it, I head to canookistan this week. I will try to make a point to ask a customs official. If I learn anything good, I will post it here.
I appreciate everyones posts so far.
I'm just throwing this out there.....
Is getting home immediately the right choice? I'm not saying write the family off. Of course we all want to get home, but if you aren't prepared to be away for a while and the family isn't prepared to be without you for a while, there's a chink in the armor.
Just something to think about.
On a micro scale (around my state or within say 4-6 hours drive) I can see making an effort to ensure travel can be accommodated. On a macro scale (across the country or globally) my efforts will be concentrated on making sure the family is GTG without me, and keeping my ass alive wherever I might be.
For the record, it would have to be a VERY bad day for me to trade my watch for a plane ticket. :)
If I am far away from home, and its a total SHTF scenerio [ie. total breakdown in society] my plan would be to make it to a small local airport and "borrow" a small plane. C152/172/182 The rentals are usualy left full of fuel over night in anticipation of renters and students in the morning. They do have keys, but the keys resemble something akin to a cheap lugage key you wind hanging on a bag you buy at Macy's. Easily broken into, and started just as easily.
Even if I can not land to refuel because I am not in an "borrowed" aircraft and all hell has broken loose I can at least get roughly 4 hours of flight time which could be about 400+ miles. That is 400 miles closer to home that I was before.
Say it was an EMP [just read One Second After] The comms will be out, so will with the transponder and ELT, but I would not turn either on in order to not be spoted. The simple magneto system should still fire up the engine, and if the starter is blowen out, you can at least hand start a 152/172. VOR's/NDB's will most likely be out, so any type of radio navigation is out of the question, but you can navagate via the old fasioned cumpass and falowing roads. Not sure if I would fly high to save fuel and be "out of sight" of the general public, of fly low to stay out of sight of the military which may still be opperating. They are small enough to land almost anywhere, all I need is a field or a road that stays strait for less than 500'.
Thats my plan, so no one copy me, or else Ill show up to an airport with the world going to hell in hand kart and all the planes are already "borrowed" lol
pilotguyo540
03-29-10, 22:58
If I am far away from home, and its a total SHTF scenerio [ie. total breakdown in society] my plan would be to make it to a small local airport and "borrow" a small plane. C152/172/182 The rentals are usualy left full of fuel over night in anticipation of renters and students in the morning. They do have keys, but the keys resemble something akin to a cheap lugage key you wind hanging on a bag you buy at Macy's. Easily broken into, and started just as easily.
Even if I can not land to refuel because I am not in an "borrowed" aircraft and all hell has broken loose I can at least get roughly 4 hours of flight time which could be about 400+ miles. That is 400 miles closer to home that I was before.
Say it was an EMP [just read One Second After] The comms will be out, so will with the transponder and ELT, but I would not turn either on in order to not be spoted. The simple magneto system should still fire up the engine, and if the starter is blowen out, you can at least hand start a 152/172. VOR's/NDB's will most likely be out, so any type of radio navigation is out of the question, but you can navagate via the old fasioned cumpass and falowing roads. Not sure if I would fly high to save fuel and be "out of sight" of the general public, of fly low to stay out of sight of the military which may still be opperating. They are small enough to land almost anywhere, all I need is a field or a road that stays strait for less than 500'.
Thats my plan, so no one copy me, or else Ill show up to an airport with the world going to hell in hand kart and all the planes are already "borrowed" lol
For some lame damn reason I never thought about training fleet aircraft. I have cessna and piper keys. I can make the work on about half of the GA fleet. The good news is that with an emp, gps would still have a good chance of working if the reciever was far enough away from the epicenter. Mags will still work. Older radios will still work. Starting systems will still work. I doubt that an emp could devistate more than a 200 mile radius (wild ass guess).
Altitude would have to be nap of the earth to avoid detection, if necessary. Military radar nets will catch you if your txpr is off or on. For that kind of flying across the western states, more performance would be required. 180hp C172 min. Lancair legacy or vans rv-8 would be ideal for effeciently covering ground fast. I have no bloody idea if the composite structure of the lancair has any radar advantage. I kind of doubt it.
Fuel exhaustion is a real concern. Especially when you are low. Weather is also a big problem. If gps stays up. I pray that WX stays up too.
Get a map of the U.S. rail lines and travel the service roads/tracks. Deviate when necessary to avoid population centers, and slowly make your way back home.
I travel a lot too, and this is the best scenario I can come up with.
I think it all depends on what sort of SHTF scenario we are talking about.
I am trying to watch signs so that if things start to go down the toilet bowl, I can load up the truck and head to my sister's place in Wyoming (90 minutes in normal good times) to hang out before it gets too bad.
If it comes on all of a sudden, we are camping out at home. I may still try to head up to my sister's place in Wyoming, but it would be at night, without lights, driving with NVG and very armed.
I am normally at home most of the time. I very occasionally do travel a little without the family.
I think about this a lot but unfortunately don't have too much pre planning done due to the varied number of totally different scenarios that could come up.
If you are international, your ability to evac might totally hinge on the scenario. A fairly minor SHTF, you might be able to evac commercially. More serious problem, the US gov't might still have the capability to evac US nationals. Total collapse= best option to link up with as many stranded US nationals you can and start learning the local language and try to formulate a plan for getting home....something you may never be able to do, depending on where you are and how bad the situation is.
In the US, if you travel to places where you are for a long period of time, consider shipping yourself a pack ahead of your actual travel. If you go from place to place, keep shipping it ahead of yourself. If you go to the same place time and again, maybe consider renting a storage unit or forming a friendship with a local contact and arrange to keep some minimal supplies there.
Your options are limited only by your imagination and, in the short term, by the local laws you'll be working under.
Six Feet Under
05-05-10, 22:30
Well the first two things I would do in your position;
Make it your routine to travel with as much cash on hand as you are comfortable with. In the beginning of even the worst event cash will still be good for a while and it will be king. It may cost way more than it would today to make your way home.
Make it a habit to travel armed whenever practical. To include the small hassle of flying with a handgun in checked baggage. Have a CCDW and know what states reciprocate. Even if you aren’t traveling to a reciprocal state or are prohibited from carrying while on company time, travel with the firearm just don't CCDW.
I think those two things will keep you from needlessly being too far behind the curve. Also, have an emergency communication plan with those back home. Internet, E-mail, txt msgs, blackberry msngr, phone messages with others in unaffected areas etc.
Flying with a firearm is no big deal, just make sure you know the laws of the area you're flying into. The last time I flew armed was two months ago (mid-March) and I had my AR, Glock, nine mags total, about 250 rounds of ammunition, Eagle chest rig and Safariland holster. The extra time at the check-in counter and in security (waiting for them to x-ray and scan the bag and give me the all clear) was about 10 minutes total. I can't carry concealed yet as I'm under 21, so that wasn't a concern.
As for when I drive somewhere... I always take my handgun in the car. Doesn't matter if it's to the grocery or West Virginia. It goes where I go, and I regularly check the laws for vehicle carry and use in the states I travel to so I don't get tossed in jail over a technicality.
pilotguyo540
05-09-10, 13:18
After a bitchin weekend in England I flew into Frankfurt this afternoon. When I landed, I found out they just cancelled my connection because of the Icelandic Volcano eruption. I was supposed to be in Graz for a meeting on monday morning. The trains are selling out fast. My status secured me one of the last first class seats on a train to Graz. Civil unrest is not an issue here of course. It is nice to get real world practice of the system meltdown. Lessons learned so far: flights will be out of the picture even for the most savvy of us travelers. Trains will be overwhelmed, BUT if you are real fast you have a chance. Rental cars...... no..... Unless you have a prior reservation or again are real fast. Hotels are going to be filled to capacity around the airport. Plastic cash is still accepted so I dont get to rough it this time:) I am supposed to Fly home on tuesday. Lets hope that flight does not get cancelled too, lest I get any more practical knowledge of these situations.
pilotguyo540
05-10-10, 13:07
I waited for over 8 hours in Frankfurt to catch the 00:28 train departure. 11 hours after that I arrived close to my intended target. There is no sleeping on a train like this. 1st class sucks as bad as second class. I would strongly recommend going on foot or stealing a car before doing this if you have to. Better yet you could amputate a limb with a rusty steak knife because it would be more fun. I tried sleeping, but found it impossible to catch more than 10 minutes every 3 hours. Sleeper cars would make all the difference in the world. If they are not available you will be depriving yourself life saving alertness and energy when it is time to depart.
Ok it wasnt quite as bad as I make it sound, but it was really bad. I had 3 trains ranging from very fast commuter train (1) to normal train (2) and rickitty 'ol POS (3). If a mass exodus were required a train would be a death trap.
Traveling back and fourth to the middle east and Central America I have come up with a number of things that I keep stashed in my carry-on since I cant rely on luggage showing up or I may need to "make do" while transitting. This stuff is not uber glamorous or high speed but is nice to have on long layovers and the delays.
-Itinerary packet
Detailed information on paper for your travel with notes from previous trips to same area (i.e. pick up companies, travel agencies, etc). Before your trip google some info from each layover and destination (i.e. rental car companies, hotels, trains, etc)
-Maps
At a minimum a map of the area around the hotel, port, airport, etc etc for each stop along the way so that when you hit the ground in each place you can find your way. Even if it is just an 8.5x11 printout that you keep in your itinerary packet.
-Compact sleeping bag
I have used a snugpak merlin 3 and a jungle bag for this. I have no problem throwing my bag out on the floor in a "secure" terminal and secure my bag to me and catch some ZZZzzzS so I am ready to roll when my connection comes in, or the like. It sucks sleeping in a chair because there are no hotel rooms left. Consider a micro sleeping pad. I got an awesome nap in Frankfurt laying in front of a big ass window in the sun during a 10 hour layover.
-Basic change of clothes
Civi set of clothes is nice, heavy duty set of pants like columbia cotton canvas or carhartts or the like with a lightweight shirt, smartwool socks, and travel/wicking underwear. Dont forget a watchcap, I like the smartwool or arcteryx ones.
-550 Cord and a couple of carabiners
A million and one uses. Last time I was in Central America my assistant locked the keys in the car with all of our gear in it. By shear luck I found a small piece of metal rod and use it and my dismantled 550 cord bracelet to pop the lock and get into the vehicle.
-Pen and paper
The ability to take notes and stay organized when plans change is paramount, shouldnt need to be said but it does.
-Basic med kit
Nothing big or bulky but some countries will sell you a viagra, testosterone, and antibiotics over the counter and some countries freak out if you ask for an aspirin. Bottom line, travel is hard on your system so keep some meds with you to keep you in tip top shape.
-Small flashlight
I keep a couple lights with me in my bag almost all the time but at least one good light is good. A handheld tac light is great for defense and finding that lost nicknack under the bed as you run out of your hotel room to catch your flight.
If I am on a short trip with no layover I minimize some of this stuff but if I have a multi-layover I will usually have most of this stuff because the chance of something going afoul is increased.
When I pick my tickets or get my itinerary from work I will immediately hit the net and find at least one or two good places to eat and a place to stay (for each layover) just in case.
Situational preparedness and forethought go a long way.
AllAmerican
06-01-10, 20:08
Very interesting thread. I am wondering 'what if' marshal law is invoked??? With this bunch in charge I am wondering if they will begin confiscating weapons being transported. They would be easy to find, just check stations at every city, county limit. I have no idea, but then again, I have no where to go. I definitely would not want to do anything that would restrict my freedom, but then there is a line that has to be drawn.....
I heard once that if there was a major shtf that most stores would be out of food in 3 days, then the wolves would begin moving in for the kill.....
Scary shit IMO.
With this bunch in charge I am wondering if they will begin confiscating weapons being transported.
You bet they would - what better way to impose socialism / communism than to have a crisis, disarm everyone, and make them all totally dependent on government handouts. And I think that many areas would just be quarantined - no one in or out, like during the Rodney King Riots, with the people inside the quarantine left to die (remember the Super Dome?).
I heard once that if there was a major shtf that most stores would be out of food in 3 days, then the wolves would begin moving in for the kill.....
More like 3 hrs. Grocery stores get resupplied every night. They run out of stuff the day before Thanksgiving. If SHTF, people will go in and buy everything they can carry. 300 people can empty a supermarket.
I am trying to watch signs so that if things start to go down the toilet bowl, I can load up the truck and head to my sister's place in Wyoming (90 minutes in normal good times) to hang out before it gets too bad.
THat is wise. Really the only time when it is possible to bug out is BEFORE the SHTF.
If it comes on all of a sudden, we are camping out at home. I may still try to head up to my sister's place in Wyoming, but it would be at night, without lights, driving with NVG and very armed.
Assuming you could make it across the valley to the bottom of Parley's canyon, which is a really big IF, all it would take is 4 gang bangers with a semi to set a road block on the narrows before Coalville to really screw things up for you.
I think about this a lot but unfortunately don't have too much pre planning done due to the varied number of totally different scenarios that could come up.
Do you have 6 months worth of food, necessary medications, first aid / trauma supplies, antibiotics, lots of ammo and extra mags, body armor, everyone in the house ready, willing and able to shoot, and either a huge supply of stored water or ready access to a water supply and filtration equipment? If not, you may end up being one of the roving scroungers, just looking for a way to survive.
Do you have 6 months worth of food, necessary medications, first aid / trauma supplies, antibiotics, lots of ammo and extra mags, body armor, everyone in the house ready, willing and able to shoot, and either a huge supply of stored water or ready access to a water supply and filtration equipment? If not, you may end up being one of the roving scroungers, just looking for a way to survive.
The problem for us married folks is getting spouses into that mindset.
Very interesting thread. I live on the coast in north Florida. Most of my travel is within 120 miles of home. I do travel armed and with my Get Me Home bag. The Eberlestock Gunslinger is my GMH pack. I love the fact that I can break down my FAL Para and completely hide it (tuck up the gunscabbard bottom) so it looks just like a regular back pack, or leave it together and quickly accessible, depending upon the situation.
If for some reason my Jeep cant get me home, like bridges out, my plan takes me to the marina's. Buy, rent, borrow, or steal, a small motor boat could get me home quickly and avoid many dangerous situations. If a marina is too far away, there are a lot of homes with docks and boats, which are no ones full time residence. Boats will be available, and sure beats walking!
Davesrb
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