View Full Version : IA May Become a "Shall Issue" State
woodandsteel
03-18-10, 08:41
Although this is not as good as a Vermont Style law, it is a move in the right direction for Iowa.
http://gazetteonline.com/local-news/2010/03/17/legislators-revive-shall-issue-law-for-weapons-permits
DES MOINES – Legislation to make Iowa a “shall-issue” state for concealed weapons permits is getting a second life in the waning days of the 2010 legislative session.
Although the legislation died in the second funnel deadline two weeks ago, House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, D-Des Moines, said the topic surfaced in a Democratic caucus and about two-thirds of his members were interested in giving it another look. A shell bill declaring the House Public Safety Committee’s intent to write legislation had 44 co-sponsors.
House File 2528, he said, would standardize the criteria for getting concealed weapons permits and require sheriffs to issue the permits if Iowans meet those criteria. It also would hide the permits from the public.
“It’s a hodge-podge now,” McCarthy said about how sheriffs issue the permits. “Some give (permits) out like water. Some don’t give them out at all.”
The result is that a person who can legally carry a concealed in one county may be guilty of a misdemeanor in the next county, McCarthy said.
“Right now sheriffs impose their discretion. They’re God now,” he said.
Discretion is good, according to the Iowa State Sheriffs and Deputies Association, which, like other law enforcement groups, opposes the bill and a companion piece in the Senate.
The association supports maintaining limited discretion in issue concealed weapons permits, its lobbyist, Susan Cameron, said, because they may have concerns about someone applying for a permit that may not fall within the federal minimum guidelines called for in HF 2528.
Sheriffs may be aware of a “pattern of behavior” that may not involve arrests or convictions, but lead them to believe a concealed weapons permit applicant is a danger to himself or the community, Cameron said.
The Iowa Coalition Against Domestic Violence wants sheriffs to maintain that discretion. In some cases, domestic assault charges get pleases down so the abuser is not subject to state and federal laws ordering them to give up their weapons, said Amber Markham of the coalition. In those cases, sheriffs may know the person applying for a concealed carry permit pose a threat.
Rep. Clel Baudler, who has been working on this legislation for 12 years, rejected that argument.
“You could say that about anyone who applies for a license whether it’s for a gun, a driver’s license or a marriage license,” he said. Discretion, he said, would allow applicants to be denied license based on age, IQ or nationality.
“We’re a nation of laws, a nation of rights,” Baudler said, specifically referring to 2nd Amendment rights.
Sheriffs support the right to bear arms and the right of citizens to defend themselves, Cameron said. Among the sheriffs’ concerns is a provision allowing permit holders to use a gun in self-defense even if “under the influence” of alcohol or drugs. “Under the influence” is not defined, she pointed out, and sheriffs are concerned that judgment is skewed when someone has been using drugs or alcohol. Allowing the use of a gun while under the influence “would likely have a negative outcome,” according to the sheriffs’ association.
In an e-mail to members, the NRA urged support for the “pro-gun” bill.
“Iowa’s legislative session adjourns in a week, so it is vital that this bill gets your support now,” the NRA said.
McCarthy is well aware it’s late in the session to be bringing such a controversial measure to the floor.
“We’ll make a run for it,” the former ranking Democrat on the Public Safety committee said. “But we won’t delay any of our budget bills for this.” McCarthy and other leaders have repeatedly said finalizing a balanced budget and adjourning March 26 are their priorities.
Public Safety Committee Chairman Jim Lykam, D-Davenport, hopes to schedule a subcommittee meeting yet this week with the interested parties in hopes of finding “middle ground.”
“We’re operating under time constraints, so we have to move quickly,” he said.
That may not be easy. Versions of this legislation have been debated at the subcommittee and committee level in past sessions without coming to the full House.
“I think we have the vote, but it’s very controversial,” Lykam said. “Some of our members are adamantly opposed.”
However, Markham worries that because it was McCarthy and Senate Majority Leader Mike Gronstal, D-Council Bluffs, who have introduced the legislation, the change is likely to pass.
“Time is our ally,” she said, “but if leaders really want this, it will get passed.”
The bill also faces opposition from media groups and others who call for more transparency in government. Under HF 2528, concealed weapons permits no longer would be public records, preventing Iowans from knowing who has a permit to carry concealed weapons.
However, Baudler said that under the state public records law, the information may be released.
I have my fingers crossed for them
Stunning thing is, this basically died a couple of weeks ago or so and early this week the leadership in both the house and senate reintroduced it.
The DEMOCRATIC leadership in both houses.
The same democrats that passed that restraining order crap a couple of weeks ago.
My democratic senator didn't say she supports it, but seemed to indicate she'll go with it.
Pumpkinheaver
03-19-10, 17:59
I hope it passes and I hope Missouri has reciprocity with them if it does!!!
Good for the Iowegians.
I hope their non-resident permit will be shall-issue as well. I'd like mine back, please.
woodandsteel
03-20-10, 15:33
I wonder how hard it would be to get them to repeal the ban on SBR's and Suppressors?
I'm still hopefully optimistic that Iowa will pass this law. However, a year or so ago, Iowa was poised to pass a "Shall Issue" law. But, at the last minute, some of the sponsors of the bill pulled out and voted against it. Hopefully, they got an earfull and will pass the bill, this time.
MarshallDodge
03-20-10, 16:05
Here's to shall-issue in Iowa! :cool:
Heartland Hawk
03-21-10, 12:30
I also hope this passes. Hopefully they can hammer the provisions into uniformity and reflect some common sense in the short time they have.
woodandsteel
03-26-10, 17:57
It looks like the bill is moving forward with some compromises made.
It's not perfect. But, at least it is a start in the right direction.
http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2010/03/26/shall-issue-gun-bill-makes-last-minute-progress-in-iowa-legislature/
‘Shall issue’ gun bill makes last-minute progress in Iowa Legislature
Posted By Jennifer Jacobs On March 26, 2010 @ 4:38 pm In Iowa Politics Insider, News | No Comments
Sheriffs would no longer have nearly unlimited discretion to deny an Iowan a permit to carry a concealed weapon under a last-minute proposal before state legislators.
Iowa would go from a “may issue” state, meaning sheriffs may issue a permit but can deny any person for any reason, to a “shall issue” state,where they could deny a permit for only a limited number of reasons.
It’s what gun advocates have pushed hard for all session, but not all are happy with the compromise bill because they don’t think it’s progressive enough.
Sen. Keith Kreiman, D-Bloomfield, negotiated the compromise proposal he thinks will standardize how permits are issued in all 99 counties, and give sheriffs better guidelines.
“A lot of Democrats believe in the Second Amendment and I think that this bill … creates a system that people, no matter which party they are in, believe is a fair system and a system that will not jeopardize public safety,” Kreiman said today.
They way sheriffs issue permits varies wildly from county to county, according to gun rights advocates.
“We’ve been told that in some jurisdictions, if you’re not a friend of the sheriff, you don’t get it,” Kreiman said. “I don’t know whether to believe that or not but that’s what’s been told to us.”
Gun rights activist Roger Burdette of Iowa Carry said today he is pleased that this legislation would at least take steps forward. “We thought this was to be completely lost,” he said.
Burdette added: “This is going to help Iowans overall, especially in counties where it has been difficult to impossible to get a permit due to the vagueness and ambiguity of the current law.”
But Aaron Dorr of Iowa Gun Owners said: “We’re not pleased.”
The proposal doesn’t go far enough to give rights to law-abiding Iowans who want to defend themselves and their families from criminal attack, he said.
Specifically, Dorr opposes a provision that says sheriffs could deny a permit to carry a concealed weapon cause if there’s probable cause, based on documentation of past actions, that a person is “likely to use a weapon unlawfully or negligently or in such a manner as would endanger the person’s self or others.”
Dorr said: “The idea that law enforcement has the option to look into the future and see if someone will commit a crime with a weapon in the future seems very dangerous,” Dorr said.
Under the proposed bill other reasons sheriffs could deny a permit include alcohol addiction.
Sheriff’s already can deny a permit because of most misdemeanor assault convictions, but under the proposal, only convictions within the three previous years would disqualify an applicant. A conviction involving a firearm or explosive would remain a lifetime disqualifier.
Federal rules for disqualification would still apply, including drug addiction.
Dorr also opposes the proposed requirement that Iowans get retrained every five years. Right now, one training session is good enough for a lifetime in most counties.
Dorr would prefer a bill proposed by Republican lawmakers, House File 2241, that died earlier this session for lack of support.
“We want to see the real ‘right to carry’ bill – the right to carry a weapon for self defense without having to beg permission from the government first,” Dorr said.
A recent Iowa Poll showed about half of Iowans oppose changing the state’s concealed weapons permit law.
Several respondents explained that they don’t want lawmakers to make it any easier for someone to get a weapon that they can keep hidden in their clothing while in public.
HERE’S SOME HIGHLIGHTS OF THE PROPOSAL:
REASONS FOR DENIAL: Alcohol addiction; probable cause, based on documentation of past actions, that a person is likely to use a weapon unlawfully or negligently or in such a manner as would endanger the person’s self or others; misdemeanor assault convictions within the prior three years; federal possession disqualifiers.
AGE LIMITS: Professional permits, for Iowans who need to carry a gun for their job, could not be issued to anyone under 18. And no one under 21 could get a nonprofessional permit.
FEE: The $10 for a new permit would go up to $50, and the $5 renewal fee would go to $25.
EXPIRATION: Permits, good for one year now, would be valid for five years.
TRAINING: Training would be required for a new permit, and in order to renew a permit. However, an applicant would have the option of qualifying on a firing range rather than repeating training.
PUBLIC RECORDS: Gun permit records are public now and would remain that way, even though some gun advocates argued these should be confidential.
HANDGUNS: Sheriffs could no longer restrict a permit for a concealed weapon to a handgun only. Nor could sheriffs impose other restrictions.
MAKE AND MODEL: Sheriffs could not require an applicant to identify the make, model and serial number of his or her gun on the permit. This issue is not addressed in current law.
RECIPROCITY: Out-of-state residents with a valid permit in their home state to carry a concealed weapon in Iowa.
APPEALS: Currently, Iowans must fight a sheriff’s permit denial in district court. Under the proposal, they could also appeal to an administrative law judge.
Hope you can get your foot in the door. The progress in licenced CCW over the years has been impressive.
RECIPROCITY: Out-of-state residents with a valid permit in their home state to carry a concealed weapon in Iowa.
That's what I am looking for! Damn tired of avoiding Iowa when I drive West.
Who should I send an email to in order to help push this through?
Buckaroo
The concept of state certified good guys carrying concealed continues to sweep the country. So far , no objective criteria ( shall issue ) law has ever been repealed.
Wiki's far from perfect , but there are some procedures and standards that help to keep the usual error-net drivel and clutter down at a managable level.
www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_united_states
Worth a click , IMO.
Vermont Carry hasn't done quite as well. So far , it's Vermont and Alaska.
Hopefully more will follow. Meantime , in most states, the game seems all about chipping away at stupid , useless restrictions and high fees.
It seems our bill passed the senate about 5 minutes ago!!!
Don't know about the house.
And although the governor has said stuff indicating if it reaches his desk he'll sign it, he is a rather liberal dummycrat, so....
woodandsteel
03-27-10, 14:20
It seems our bill passed the senate about 5 minutes ago!!!
Don't know about the house.
And although the governor has said stuff indicating if it reaches his desk he'll sign it, he is a rather liberal dummycrat, so....
That's awsome. It passed the senate 44-4. Should debated in the house later today. :)
House should meet again at 2:30 PM, CST.
http://www.legis.state.ia.us/GA/83GA/House/haction/current.htm
Just as right are incrementally lost, so too can they be gained. I'm not crazy about various provisions of the legislation, but it's a start. I see there's mention of reciprocity, but no mention of non-resident permits. I hope those remain and will be shall-issue as well.
woodandsteel
03-28-10, 11:35
Looks like the house will take up this issue again on Monday, at 10:00 AM.
Sounds like there is overwhelming support for this in the house. Although there is a small group of house members threatening to hold up the budget bill if this thing passes.:rolleyes:
Luckily, my representitive is strongly behind this bill. :)
woodandsteel
03-29-10, 16:42
It passed the House, and is on it's way to the Governor. The Governor, according to sources, is indicating he will sign this into law.
Some in the house tried to get rid of out of state reciprocity. But, that attempt failed.
Bill should go in effect Jan. 1st.
http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2010/03/29/new-gun-permit-law-formula-for-disaster/
30 cal slut
03-29-10, 16:44
That's what I am looking for! Damn tired of avoiding Iowa when I drive West.
Last time I was there, I was attacked by a hordes of zombie meth-head... corn stalks. :p
Alpha Sierra
03-29-10, 17:15
It passed the House, and is on it's way to the Governor. The Governor, according to sources, is indicating he will sign this into law.
Some in the house tried to get rid of out of state reciprocity. But, that attempt failed.
Bill should go in effect Jan. 1st.
http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2010/03/29/new-gun-permit-law-formula-for-disaster/
January 1st? WTF? That's almost a year away.
ETA: some of the comments on that blog are beyond retarded.
woodandsteel
03-29-10, 17:20
January 1st? WTF? That's almost a year away.
That's what I read in one of the articles. Have to double check, though.
Typically, new legislation takes effect July 1st. So, it could've been a typo.
I have heard 1 January as well and wonder too if it is correct.
All sorts of stuff kicks in on 1 July so not sure why this wouldn't.
Sounds like we will recognize all valid permits to carry from any state.
So...,
Basically, in one fell swoop, we went from one of the bad systems to one of the best going.
woodandsteel
03-29-10, 21:33
Damn.:(
According to the good people at IowaCarry.org, this law won't go into effect until 01-01-2011.
http://www.iowacarry.org/forums1/index.php?showtopic=18926&st=60
That sucks for those living in counties where the sheriff opposes CCW.
And that means anyone waiting on reciprocity, will have to wait a little longer.
Last time I was there, I was attacked by a hordes of zombie meth-head... corn stalks. :p
Yea. the last time I was there a tweeker groundhog ran out and tried to jack my car!
;)
Buckaroo (who likes to be ready for "wild" life!)
What was the vote count in the House?
woodandsteel
03-31-10, 09:07
It passed 81-16 in the house.
The press is not happy with the bill. The Sheriff's Assoc. is also not happy.
http://gazetteonline.com/breaking-news/2010/03/30/sheriffs-%e2%80%98just-know%e2%80%99-some-can%e2%80%99t-be-trusted-with-weapon
http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/89567542.html
Hopefully, we can convince Gov. Culver to sign this bill.
eta; In reading the bill that passed, it specifically sets the date that this will take effect as 01-01-2011. Apparently this was a compromise between some who wanted it to take effect 07-01-2010 and those who wanted it to take effect 07-01-2011. July 1st is typically when newly passed legislation takes effect.
And the NRA is not happy either. Yet again another story about the NRA and their bullshit agenda. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/is-iowa-lawmaker-kent-sorenson-too-pro-gun-for-nra
The NRA is reportedly threatening to campaign against a pro-gun Iowa legislator because he is pushing a bill that is too pro-gun.
Rep. Kent Sorenson is an outspoken gun advocate and one of the leading voices for 2nd Amendment rights in the Iowa legislature. He introduced and pushed for a right-to-carry bill that would have given people the right to carry a gun, concealed or otherwise, without having to obtain a permit. The bill did not pass because of a tie vote. Other compromise bills have also been introduced. Sorenson is against these "watered down" bills, saying they don't provide true gun rights.
The NRA is involved in crafting one of these compromise bills that was introduced last week by two traditionally anti-gun politicians. The bill was written in such a way that moderates could support it, giving it a better chance of passing.
Sorenson came out against the NRA bill. So according to a report on Ammoland.com, a lobbyist working for the NRA went to Sorenson and told him if he didn't support the bill, the NRA would work to get his opponent elected in an upcoming election -- an anti-gun candidate at that.
The NRA has not commented on the accusation.
Over the weekend the Iowa Senate approved a bill that overhauls the system for issuing permits to carry concealed weapons. It requires that sheriffs give a reason if they deny a permit and make such decisions based on consistent state guidelines.
Very strange:
And the NRA is not happy either. Yet again another story about the NRA and their bullshit agenda. http://www.opposingviews.com/i/is-iowa-lawmaker-kent-sorenson-too-pro-gun-for-nra
I thought that Sorensen voted for the "Shall Issue " bill that just passed . We are talking 81-16 in the House , and 44-4 in the Senate. Anyway the bill looks decent and I can not think that any state legislature that ever voted to go direct from "May Issue " to " Vermont Carry ".
Something just ain't right here.
:confused:
woodandsteel
03-31-10, 14:41
I never knew who Kent Sorenson was until now. But, what little I have read about him, I like.
http://kentsorenson.com/about-kent/
As for his stance on the Second Amendment, he may have saw how everything was going to play out in the end, and thought this would be a good time for him to make a statement on what he believes. Or, he could be a man of strong conviction.
Hopefully, if it came down to it, he wasn't prepared to throw the baby out with the bathwater in order to make that statement.
Either way, I would be proud to have him representing my district.
Looks like Iowa Carry released a statement saying that Sorensen voted for the " Shall Issue " bill.
The bill had lots of support , including the Izaak Walton League , so even fisherman & fuds were supporting the bill..
So what's up with this " report " ( at the link above ) that charges the evil NRA with bullying Mr. Sorensen to advance " their bullshit agenda "?
:confused:
Not that the NRA is perfect -- I like SAF more.
www.saf.org
So what's up with this " report " ( at the link above ) that charges the evil NRA with bullying Mr. Sorensen to advance " their bullshit agenda "?
:confused:
I don't understand your question. I read it, understood it and posted it. The NRA has never supported the most important part of the 2nd Amendment, Shall not be infringed. I like SAF too :cool:
I don't understand your question. I read it, understood it and posted it. The NRA has never supported the most important part of the 2nd Amendment, Shall not be infringed. I like SAF too :cool:
Interesting.
What I heard about the "threat" is that people from the Iowa Gun Owners blew it WAY out of proportion.
The guy from Iowa Carry that supposedly made the threat spoke to Sorensen and Sorensen in no way felt anything untoward was done.
IGO wanted Vermont style carry and simply were not willing to even consider anything else.
They were more than willing to "throw the baby out with the dishwater".
They were more than willing to do whatever was necessary to discredit Iowa Carry.
The article at the link confirms 11Bravo's post and provides additional details.
" Contrived Iowa Shall-Issue Gun Controversy Distracts from Common Goal"
www.opposingviews.com/i/contrived-iowa-shall-issue-gun-controversy-distracts-from-common-goals
Based on the info that's available so far : Iowa Carry looks like an LMT and Gun Owners of Iowa looks like a DPMS - or maybe a Hesse/Blackthorne.
Discussions like this aren't about ego - hopefully , anyway. Seems like the discussion would be more useful if it was about what's accurate and what works. So far the available evidence does not seem to be favorable or flattering to Gun Owners of Iowa.
Anybody want to provide more evidence ?
I don't understand your question. I read it, understood it and posted it. The NRA has never supported the most important part of the 2nd Amendment, Shall not be infringed. I like SAF too :cool:
Just in case , nothing personal.
Just in case , nothing personal.
That's the 2nd time you felt the need to quote what I posted, what's your point? Just in case of what?
GermanSynergy
04-03-10, 17:54
Good news.... Think Maryland will ever follow suit? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
I hope it goes well for you guys/gals in Iowa. You can use Missouri's CCW law as a template.
That's the 2nd time you felt the need to quote what I posted, what's your point? Just in case of what?
Is it the second time ever on m4carbine? I haven't been keeping count.
Wonder if the Governor has signed the bill ?
The concealed carry issue was always part of the reason I never moved back to Davenport after I got off active duty, not that it really applies to me anymore but if Thomson CC turns into a USP or FCI then Ill be back.
... (Snip for brevity )...
I read it, understood it and posted it.
... (Snip for brevity ).......
A little context for this page.
A little context for this page.
Ok, that's the 3rd time you've quoted that post in this thread. Any particular reason why?
Glad you asked.
Bullshit:
" Is Iowa Lawmake Kent Sorenson Too Pro-Gun for the NRA "
..... ( Snip for brevity...... http://www.opposingviews.com/i/is-iowa-lawmaker-kent-sorenson-too-pro-gun-for-nra
You read it, you understood it , and you posted it. And ( not but ) it's pure , pre-meditated , malicious bullshit.
.
Checkable/confirmable facts:
"Contrived Iowa Shall-Issue Gun Controversy Distracts from Common Goals "
www.opposingviews.com/i/contrived-iowa-shall-issue-gun-controversy-distracts-from-common-goals
Woth a click , IMO.
And ( not but ) it's pure , pre-meditated , malicious bullshit.
What is? You act like you have a dog in the fight, is this something personal? Be specific, post references or links to exactly what you're referencing. I honestly have no idea what you're talking about and why this is such a pet project of yours but have at it.
It's all about winning the fight for 2nd Amendment rights.
Bullshit and inaccurate info is a liability , not an asset , in any fight .
None of this is about ego , or who is right. It's all about what is accurate and what it takes to win.
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