What's the next step after Red Cross ..........

[danpass]

advanced first aid and CPR?

Does it simply become specialized after that point?

For example is there one class that would cover plugging a gunshot wound (or is that the typical apply pressure and bandage stuff) setting up an IV, using that chest needle thing, opening an airway with that device, etc.


(Perhaps anything that involves purposely puncturing skin may be out of the question but having those things on hand may help when the person arrives who knows how to use it)

Just curious

[kmrtnsn]

http://www.magpuldynamics.com/training/shooter_aid.shtml

[danpass]

http://www.magpuldynamics.com/training/shooter_aid.shtml

lol, that's awesome.

just right :D

[Gutshot John]

http://www.magpuldynamics.com/training/shooter_aid.shtml

Ridiculously overpriced for a certification that isn't even recognized by the medical community. Is Magpul going to stand behind their training if you get sued? I doubt it. Who organizes their curriculum? Do they even have a medical officer?

You're 1/3-halfway to paying for an EMT, FA or WFA, WEMT class at that point.

Gunshot medicine isn't some mystical voodoo. It's straightforward, down and dirty. There are plenty of good training groups other than Magpul more significantly they're a shooting school. If I'm going to spend that kind of money on a tactical medicine class I'm going to someone who specializes in that kind of training like GORGRP.

Save that kind of money for shooting classes.

[Cold Zero]

This school is owned by a Dr., been around a long time and provides continuing support to their graduates.

http://www.tacticalmedicine.com/

[vaspence]

Not a popular group in some circles but the Immediate Action Medical from Tactical Response was a very thorough 2 day course on gunshot wound treatment, etc. Taught by two active duty 18D's and I felt well worth the money. There is an AAR I did around here somewhere.

On the other hand a WFA, WFR or WEMT course is good also. Check out the new Red Cross Wilderness First Aid course. Totally new and revised for 2010. Very thorough discussion of tourniquets and usage. They even recommend purchase of commercial tqs. The online instructors video I watched used a CAT in the demo. Who'd of thunk the Red Cross would advocate TQ use other than in a 3 second gloss over. Good discussion on sealing a chest wound and burping it also.

Whatever course you take look into who the instructor is and how often they educate themselves.


Spence

[Cold Zero]

Not a popular group in some circles but

Spence

Which group are you referring to ? Not clear.

[vaspence]

Tactical Response. My bad for even mentioning anything other than the training I received which was top notch. I'd recommend the Immediate Action Medical Class to anyone. I have not taken any other courses with them. Let's agree to keep the thread on topic even though I am the cause of the drift.

Mea Culpa

Spence

[citizensoldier16]

Really folks? Tactical medicine? Military buddy aid classes? C'mon...lets just suggest everyone become 68W's. Instead, lets concentrate on suggestions that everyone can find in their area, and that are taught to the civilian levels...which are not only more practical, but legally recognized outside the military.

Start with your local community colleges and look for an EMT-Basic course. It will cover what you are looking for and the certification will be recognized in your state, unlike the "tacticool medic" courses mentioned above.

WEMT is useless (IMHO) unless you take your EMT-B first. EMT-B teaches you the medicine, WEMT teaches you how to fake it when you don't have the proper tools.

[BaileyMoto]

Keep in mind that the Good Samaritan law is often NOT extended to a 'trained professional'. You can and will be sued when, as a jolly volly, you hurt someone when you decide to use 'that needle thingy'.

My opinion? Unless you have the certifications (and license) to practice those skills in your state/county, I would stay away from anything other than basic wound care and CPR. Applying a little knowledge to a close friend or family member is one thing, but jolly volly's love the recognition and rarely stop there. Again, just my opinion.

I'd advise taking classes that are actually recognized by state and national organizations, such as First responder, EMTB/EMTI/EMTP, PHTLS, ATLS, etc.

In the medical field, a 'little knowledge' often gets people hurt (and sued).

[Huntindoc]

I would have to agree staying with EMT basic or advanced first aid course. From there if you are going for IV starting and such you will then need to have the medical knowledge of what to put through the IV.

If interested you would then take ACLS (advanced cardiac life support) and ATLS (advanced trauma life support). I don't know if these are offered to non-medical persons as every time I recertify there are only Docs and ER/ICU Nurses there.

You may want to look into the Wilderness Medical Society courses. They can be found online and offer search and rescue with Advanced Trauma first aid treatment that may be available to non-medical persons. Taught by instructors who have "been there, done that" they are fascinating courses that are certified.

As for good samaritan laws, they probably vary from state to state but at least here in Texas they protect physicians as well as non-medical persons provided you don't do something incredibly stupid.

[chuckman]

ACLS? ATLS? Don't put the cart before the horse. Start off with a Red Cross first aid class or an EMT basic course.

There is nothing mystical about treating a GSW. Stop the bleeding. That's it. People make medicine harder than it is....blood goes round and round, air goes in an out, any deviation is a bad thing. Treating any trauma starts with the basics, and that is basic first aid.

[BaileyMoto]

ACLS? ATLS? Don't put the cart before the horse. Start off with a Red Cross first aid class or an EMT basic course.

There is nothing mystical about treating a GSW. Stop the bleeding. That's it. People make medicine harder than it is....blood goes round and round, air goes in an out, any deviation is a bad thing. Treating any trauma starts with the basics, and that is basic first aid.

Pretty much nailed it on the head.

Personally, I feel that unless you are doing it as a profession (medic, nurse, etc), the more advanced courses are going to be a waste of time and money. There is virtually nothing in an ACLS course that a civilian can use (at least not legally). If that sort of medicine interests you that much, perhaps its time to apply to a fire dept and/or get your education ad get a job with an ambulance company.

I work i the industry, but I'm generally the last person to stop and help someone on the side of the road. That's just me, tho.

[Sparky5019]

As a CRNA (Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist) I plan to pick up ATLS at some point but I tend to agree that even ACLS is too much for the layman as we all know it is pretty technical and most people can't even remeber basic CPR when confronted with an emergency. BLS is still a step up from "civilian" CPR (I think), so that would be plenty for most non-medical people IMO.

Sparky