View Full Version : Who here carries a lightweight snubby?
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-21-10, 15:57
Hey guys,
Anybody here carry a lightweight snubby as their only gun? I would like to hear any observations or interesting stories.
citizensoldier16
03-21-10, 16:14
I used to carry a Taurus 605SS in .357 mag. It concealed very nicely in my Don Hume IWB holster. I just didn't like the fact that I only had 5 rounds, so I switched back to semi-autos. Plus, the recoil from those magnum rounds on a lightweight snubby was a bit harsh.
Alpha Sierra
03-21-10, 16:43
I only carry mine (S&W 637) when I cannot afford to be made under any circumstances or when attire precludes a belt and a holster.
I have a S&W 637, airweight .38, it does have a key lock on it. I will say up front that I don't not carry "only" this snub, at least full time, I do feel a little minimally armed when carring just a snub. It usually gets used in the summer when it conceals under a light t-shirt as it conceals better in this dress than my prefered G19. The reason I say I feel minimally armed is I have twice now faced 4-5 threats at once. Luckily I outmaneuvered the first gang of 4-5 and had my G19 on me when I faced the second gang of 4-5. Obviously a 5 shot snub would not be the best tool in these situations. Since we cannot pick our fights, I greatly prefer the G19. A snub would probably suffice if facing just one, maybe two threats, but after that, IMO, it gets dicey.
With that said, I am currently considering selling this snub mainly to get rid of the key lock system. I'm currently mulling over a non-key lock airweight, a 5 shot SP101 .357 and a G26, and the G26 I am finding the most attractive.
Don't know if this helps but these are my thoughts.
Alpha Sierra
03-21-10, 16:52
With that said, I am currently considering selling this snub mainly to get rid of the key lock system.
It will be cheaper (as in $0) to remove the lock arm and lock arm return spring out of it.
It's a storage lock. The only time you might be liable for anything is if someone accidentally shoots himself thinking the pistol is locked. And if you remove the lock arm, the lock will never appear to be engaged when it isn't. So no problem there either.
John_Wayne777
03-21-10, 16:59
Hey guys,
Anybody here carry a lightweight snubby as their only gun? I would like to hear any observations or interesting stories.
I'm not infrequently forced to pack a S&W 442 as my primary due to the premium of concealability and invisibility in certain environments.
Observations:
Not perfect, but decidedly better than fingernails. The J frame conceals easily in a pocket (or just about anywhere else) and allows for one of the best compromises of power, reliability, and concealability on the market. It wouldn't be my first choice in a gunfight because of limited capacity and a trigger that's hard to use, but there's no question that it's been effective in a number of gunfights over the years. It's a popular LE backup gun for those reasons.
CT grips are a must, in my opinion. The difference it makes in the shootability of the little revolvers is difficult to oversell. Greg, I think you were there during one of the Vickers/Hackathorn low light classes when I had my J frame on the range. Did you get to shoot it? Several people did but I don't remember if you did or not.
As a reload I carry one of the Safariland speed loaders for the J frame. They are the best speed loaders on the market, IMO.
For holsters, I'm fond of the Desantis Nemesis. Cheap and effective, I've carried one daily since I found out about them a long time ago. I'm not entirely sure, but I think I've been carrying my 442 in a Nemesis for at least 6 years...possibly 8. Getting old sucks.
Interesting stories:
I've never been forced to shoot anyone with my 442 so I don't have many interesting stories.
I can say that on multiple occasions when things looked dicey I've looked very casual with my hand in my pocket while in reality I had already established my strong hand grip on the 442 and picked the exact spot on the potential threat I was going to aim for.
Example: I once told a group of trespassing skateboarders who were trashing a piece of property I'm partially responsible for to take a hike. They, of course, did not like this. The lead dumbass picked up his skateboard and held it like a baseball bat. My hand was already on my revolver and I decided that the marijuana leaf made of cheap imitation gold on his fake chain would make a remarkably good point of aim as it sat right at the area where his heart and major blood vessels met.
Again, a J frame would not have been my first choice against Captain Stupid and his merry band of skateboarding idiots, but after putting a few rounds into the ring leader the rest of the merry band would have probably beaten a hasty retreat.
SeriousStudent
03-21-10, 17:13
I would echo John_Wayne777's wise remarks, with two small additions.
Sometimes it is handy to carry a Bianchi Speed Strip, in order to perform the wheelgun version of a tactical reload. I can use the strip to place two rounds into the cylinder relatively quickly. I also carry a Safariland Comp 1 speedloader in pocket.
With a parka, a J frame is handy to drop in the outside pocket, in addition to one's regular carry pistol on the belt. I know you did ask about solo use, but I frequently use it in that role as well. When I am wandering a parking lot during a winter night, it's a comforting handful.
Interesting stories: It makes a great "Here - use this" pistol when a friend is not armed, but should have been.
"Dude, you have no idea how much better I felt with you handed me that!"
That is often referred to as "the teachable moment."
Good luck to you.
I carry a S&W 442 from May until Sep in a Kramer Pocket Holster w/ speedstrip ammo is SPGD 135gr +p. This becomes my primary CCW during those summer months. The season usually starts off with our annual trip to Phoenix for the Spring Training ball games. In fact we just got back. That rig is the perfect set up for the hot weather months and I've never been made even with all the security searches. I start getting tuned up around Feb and by March I feel pretty confident. My mindset goes along the lines of I'm not there to stop the N. Hollywood Shootout I just need something to get me and my family out of a danger area that combined with the ability to carry and still look like nobody special are my primary concerns. It cracks me up when I see off-duty officers wearing 511's, an oversive shirt, hiking boots, and the grip outline of their duty gun poking out the back of their shirt in 90 degree weather.
QuietShootr
03-21-10, 17:33
340PD .357 when I can't carry anything bigger.
I have been known to throw a S&W 340PD in a pocket when wearing shorts or on my ankle as a back-up or even as a primary if that is all I have room for.
I finally was able to get my hands on a Ruger LCR, what a nice little pistol for the money. You'd pay big bucks for custom work to get as smooth a trigger on a S&W snubby.
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-21-10, 19:49
The way I see it the ultra-light snub is useful:
1. As a primary carry gun for everyone but LE--especially non-shooters. Most of the people who I know who carry guns do not really shoot. I shoot every weekend because I enjoy it and can (debatably) afford it. I am usually practicing with my Glock 26 or my HK45c because those are the guns I WANT to carry. I am self-employed so I can pretty much carry everywhere but the courthouse.
But a lightweight snubby is the kind of gun that actually gets carried. It can be fairly powerful and 5 rounds is certainly 5000 times better than the 0 rounds most people usually have (or leave in their vehicle (just this once)). It can be dry fired usefully (without constant re-cocking, etc). With laser grips the gun is even more useful (and dry fire is more effective).
2. SHTF/military. I know this topic is frowned upon in this forum, but I think this gun has a role to play here--and it may be more useful than a "combat" autoloader in many realistic scenarios. Pistols, as we all know, are really tools for getting to your rifle in most situations. I figure the weight taken up by a typical combat autoloader might be better used for more ammunition for your primary weapon. The snubby would be carried in reserve for shooting dogs/evil doers who attack while you are clearing malfunctions or taking a whiz.
Most days I carry either a 638 or 342 (both w/ CT grips) in an Alessi ankle holster due to work constraints. There is also a G19 in my vehicle. When I exit my vehicle, the snubby gets dropped into my front pocket. It is not my preferred sidearm, but it is a constant companion.
Ruger LCR and Desantis pocket holster for shorts and t-shirt wear.
[QUOTE=Greg Bell;607394]The way I see it the ultra-light snub is useful:
1. As a primary carry gun for everyone but LE
I disagree, this should be up to your dept/agency policy. But for me when I am off-duty my purpose and mission needs change. Over 75% of the agents/officers I know don't even carry off-duty(most leave one in their car). I believe a J-frame in your pocket beats a Glock 19 in your car. When deciding on an off-duty/CCW piece, one needs to do a mission needs assesment and prioritize the need or want to be always armed and still dress like the average Joe. Yes, I know you can carry a fullsize weapon and still dress like that, I've carried a Sig P220 for 13 years in street clothes(not suits) and now a S&W M&P45 and it can be done but on a daily basis it isn't required for me and doesn't match my mission needs assesment.
Alpha Sierra
03-21-10, 20:40
Lightweight compact revolvers are a terrible choice for non-proficient shooters.
They may be easy to carry, but they are NOT easy to shoot. And with only five on tap, there are none to waste on errant shots. It took me close to 800 rounds to become proficient enough with my 637 to the point where hitting on the move with it is fast and instinctive.
This from a long time wheelgunner (me) that just recently converted to semi autos for most carry but still enjoys the old school badassness of a S&W .357 Magnum K frame IWB.
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-21-10, 20:42
Colt,
You don't disagree with me. I was just saying that a lot of folks who are not LE but want to carry often select guns that they SAY they will carry but often do not (for various reasons). Off-duty LE are basically in the same boat, as you point out.
I carried a Smith 642 for a while there.
It was absolutely no problem to throw it in a pocket holster and subsequently into my front right hand pocket.
Sold it and really shouldn't have as cc'ing that little revolver in South Florida is basically ideal compared to a full IWB rig with M&P9 in it over a light shirt.
I'll echo JW's comment that I can just nonchalantly stick my hand in my pocket and be ready to rock if necessary (vs raising my shirt and putting my hand on my grip and really upping the tension)
a Bianchi Speed Strip (or two) is easy to throw into the other pocket(s)
this thread needs pics :D
http://www.danpassaro.com/img/v1/p277676486.jpg
Old carry setup. I did change to six on the strip after this pic
http://www.danpassaro.com/img/v4/p961951640-4.jpg
NMBigfoot02
03-21-10, 21:09
So does anyone carry their J-frame IWB or AIWB or does everyone prefer pocket carry?
all the cool kids pocket carry
no, I'm kidding. I suspect the other big option is ankle carry actually.
Roger that Greg,
I apologize if misunderstood your post. I do agree that way too many people talk a big game about carrying but they usually side with what's comfortable and most of the time that's unarmed because the cool of carrying has worn off and sooner or later it becomes a chore and loses it's place on the priority list. But those same people wouldn't consider leaving their wallet or purse at home.
I carry a 340PD in a Cross Breed IWB. It disappears and is very comfortable.
+1 for the 442 and a Desantis.
I would prefer something bigger, but for my trade and some of the places I work this is my best option. And a belly band is pretty good too.
Alpha Sierra
03-21-10, 21:52
So does anyone carry their J-frame IWB or AIWB or does everyone prefer pocket carry?
I carry mine in a CTAC. I have yet to find a pocket holster that does not make the little gun look like a brick in my pants pocket.
I use a 642 with CT grips as a BUG, and on VERY rare occasions as a primary, but I always prefer having a 'real' gun as my primary. The J-frame is a great 'always-there' gun, though, and the ability to casually get a firing grip in your pocket is very comforting at times.
But as a dedicated primary, the weak cartridge, heavy long DA trigger and low capacity make me unhappy. I consider it an "OH CRAP" gun for use when my primary goes down and I need to do an NSR RFN.
I carry a 638 bodyguard when I can't carry my G19, which is when I'm wearing slacks and a dress shirt. I conceal the 638 very successfully using a Kangaroo holster, which doesn't look and feel like much, but it provides very good concealment even with a fitted dress shirt keeping the gun essentially under your armpit.
I have also pocket carried it when wearing cargo shorts, but one time I was in a fairly secluded park area when a car with 3 gangbangers cruised by slowly checking me and my wife out. We maneuvered away and nothing happened, but that's when I wished that I was carrying something much more substantial, and now I always carry my G19 with a reload except for when I'm forced to carry the 638 due to wardrobe constraints as mentioned above.
Mine has the lock and I've often considered removing it but haven't done it yet.
Besides the Kramer Pocket Holster I have a Galco Scout that I sometimes wear AIWB though those times are few and far between. I came to the conclusion that if I was going to stuff a gun in my pants and cover it up with a shirt it might as well be my Glock 30. The 442 always carried well in that position and was extremely fast just didn't offer as many options in dress as pocket carry.
A Model 38 (Airweight Bodyguard) stays in my pants pocket 24/7, except for the occasional switch to a 1911. State CCW law here only allows one gun carry.
I recently replaced a worn out Kramer pocket holster with a DeSantis Nemesis, which is a poor choice if you carry during couch duty. I looking for something with better retention.
El Vaquero
03-21-10, 23:58
I pocket carry a S&W 638 loaded with +p's. But like others, the wheel gun only gets the nod when I'm unable to carry my USP compact. 5 shots isn't much, but its better than nothin.
this thread needs pics :D
Yes it does!
I got this 442 in January and have it with me almost all the time, sometimes as a BUG, sometimes as primary. There are many occasions when a larger pistol isn't a feasible option for me. I especially like having the 442 in my jacket pocket and in my hand.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/ronssmith/Guns/20100120019a.jpg
638 with CT grips in Nemesis holster every day all day.
The Dumb Gun Collector
03-22-10, 08:19
Do the CT grips "snag" worse than the monogrips?
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/speedstrip.jpg
Bianchi Speed Strip.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/5shots_003.jpg
S&W 642 with Crimson Trace grip. Most of the time the gun is in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster.
I use a S&W 340 (.357 Gold Dot carry loads) Crimson Trace in a Galco Royal Guard (IWB).
It find it just as comfy as my Kahr PM9 (more power) but feels downright bulky compared to my Ruger LCP (way more power). They all have their place.
I use my small guns for weekend carry, my philosophy is: better to have a .380 when you need it than nothing at all.
Do the CT grips "snag" worse than the monogrips?
In my experience, the LG-405s don't snag at all. They're soft on the front and backstraps, and hard on the side panels so they won't catch on your pocket lining. I'd use them even without the laser, as they're the most comfortable concealment grips I've tried. Adding the red dot is a plus :)
I carry a 642 LadySmith probably 90% of the time as my only gun, unless I really feel the need for something bigger. Usually it's in a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster, sometimes in a Comp-Tac Pro Undercover IWB, sometimes a Galco ankle rig (mostly church), and I just order an AIWB 360 rig from Alabama Holster Company for it. I usually carry 2 speed strips with it and sometimes add a speed loader.
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk220/jds44/642-1.jpg
Background - I'm just your average Joe, non-LEO, kids (who have a bad habit of bumping into large carry guns, but never notice the pocket gun), and a wife. Used to shoot 1000+ rounds and 4-5 IPSC matches a month pre-kids, but now struggle to get to the range as often as I'd like and squeeze in an IDPA match every couple of months. I carry all the time (except in the office where it would not only get me fired, but put me in jail), don't go to stupid places and do stupid things any more, and try to avoid trouble. The j-frame isn't the best fighting tool, but it fits my lifestyle right now.
I carry a SW642 in my pocket everyday. No one knows what the little bulge is. If necessary you can put your hand in your pocket to conceal it further or get your mitts on the grip early on if need be without giving away the fact that you're armed.
Do the CT grips "snag" worse than the monogrips?
I have some spegel grips that are more low pro, but with a good holster the CT's work great
For several years, I've been carrying one of our two 642s as a weak-side backup, usually in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster.
It wears LG-305 Lasergrips but has no other mods; these are the largest of the three types of lasergrips for j-frames. The 305s allow me to get a better grip on the gun than the smaller lasergrips or the OEM boot grips that came with the gun. My eyes are old and the 642's sights are small. The laser helps a lot in anything but bright sunlight.
I really, really like being able to get a good grip on the gun in the pocket without having to make any provocative moves. IMO the only downside to pocket carry is that I can't reach the gun with my strong hand.
Fortunately, I've never had to use it or any other gun in a serious social situation.
I would not be comfortable with only a five-shot anything. My primary is a Glock 34 worn IWB, with a spare mag. I'm just an armed citizen, living in a low crime area. My lifestyle doesn't involve any high-risk behavior, but I still wouldn't feel comfortable with only five shots. I used a j-frame for several scenarios of a Force on Force class I took a couple of years ago, and I sure ran out of ammo fast in those scenarios.
Several years ago I experimented with a Kahr PM9 as a replacement for the 642s. I liked the additional capacity of the PM9. For me the PM9 seemed easier to shoot than the 642. I was satisfied with the Kahr's reliability(now has about 1750 rds with no malfs in the last 1000 rds).
For me and the clothes I typically wear the PM9 just didn't draw as smoothly from the pocket as the 642.
Tried a Nemesis and a Galco pocket holster for the Kahr, but the back of the PM9's slide would sometimes catch on a lip of material at the top of the pocket. Sometimes the holster would come out of the pocket with the PM9.
These things never happen with the 642 and its Nemesis or with an old Bianchi synthetic pocket holster I also use.
Also I was concerned that in an extremely close fight, the PM9's slide might get knocked out of battery; this couldn't happen with the 642.
I carry a Safariland speedloader for the 642 in a small strongside cargo pocket. It's one of the straight-push types. Have tried HKS and Maxfire speedloaders. The HKS required a twist which doesn't seem as idiot-proof as the Safariland's push release, and I thought the Maxfires required too precise a "slide" to release the ammo.
I carry 135 grain +P Short Gold Dots or the +P Cor Bon DPX rounds. Typically I practice with standard pressure ammo, but shoot a few of the +P rounds also. I don't practice enough with the 642.
My wife carries a S&W Airweight .38, and sometimes I steal it when I am going for a run or need just want to grab something light and easy to carry in my pocket
not my only 1 but I carry it more than anything else. It just disappears with the brahami hip grips and is very comfortable.
http://i672.photobucket.com/albums/vv88/rspencer38/jframe005.jpg
S&W 37 in .38 special
I carry a S&W 360PD with Crimson Trace grips, loaded with .38+ rounds as my on duty back up. I also carry a speedstrip with .357 mag rounds.Occasionally, it will be the only pistol I carry it off duty but that is usually based on my wardrobe and the place I am going. I also carry a knife of some sort....usually a karambit custom.
Shooting .38s through it is ok and shooting some .357s through isn't bad (CT grip has a recoil pad built into it). What I mean by this is I will usually shoot a box of 50 .38 specials through it, followed by about 5-10 rounds of .357.
LandCruiser
03-22-10, 11:42
I carry my S&W 642 no-lock often. It has CT lg-305's and is carried usually in a crossbreed IWB.
On occasion, I carry a Taurus M450 2" ported SS .45 LC, 5-shot, loaded with Double Tap 230gr. Controlled Expansion rounds. It's a great shooter with managable recoil. I don't feel 'under-gunned' while carrying it.
642 in front pocket when I'm home. Pretty much wear BDU pants or shorts whenever I'm home.
M&P 340 in a Mika pocket holster. Carried a lot.
...a lightweight snubby is the kind of gun that actually gets carried. It can be fairly powerful and 5 rounds is certainly 5000 times better than the 0 rounds most people usually have (or leave in their vehicle (just this once)).
Spot on.
Do the CT grips "snag" worse than the monogrips?
I've never had an issue with the CT's snagging any more or less than any other grip.
Stories? There are several. I've had my "hand in pocket" more than a few times. Two stories in particular come to mind:
Sitting around a table with several professional gunmen in a place when a bad scene began developing at another table. Everyone looks around the table with the raised eyebrow "you armed?" look. Everyone was armed with a J-frame. Not a Glock or 1911 to be had. That always struck me as funny for a table of professional tough guys.
A similar story, sitting at a table with a well-known training personality who shall remain nameless. The topic of daily carry came up and they were giving high praise to a certain handgun and proclaiming the wisdom of always carrying a full-size handgun. When asked what they were carrying, they named a different gun as being in their truck. "Uh huh. What are you carrying right now at this table?" After a slight hesitation: "a, uh, J-frame". "That's what I thought".
Does anyone know if S&W will be running any "no lock" 442 or 642s in the near future or if ever again?
light weight no but i have carried a 5 shot 357 a few times.
I have been known to throw a S&W 340PD in a pocket when wearing shorts or on my ankle as a back-up or even as a primary if that is all I have room for.
I finally was able to get my hands on a Ruger LCR, what a nice little pistol for the money. You'd pay big bucks for custom work to get as smooth a trigger on a S&W snubby.
Ditto's for my 340PD..
Does anyone know if S&W will be running any "no lock" 442 or 642s in the near future or if ever again?
Aside from commemoratives or repros, no. Remember that S&W was purchased from Tompkins PLC by Saf-T-Hammer, which manufactured gun locks and other "safety oriented" do-dads. I imagine that a good deal of the replacement management has locks on the cranium. Also, according to some (including my belief at the time), they thought they would have to still comply with the HUD Settlement Agreement, so they immediately retooled to put locks in revolvers. It would probably be more expensive in the short to medium run to retool again than to keep the locks in place.
Does anyone know if S&W will be running any "no lock" 442 or 642s in the near future or if ever again?
Apparently you can remove the lock, there's instructions on here somewhere, but the search function seems to be f'ed up at the moment. I just picked up a 442 with lock for $375 off of backpage, came with a box of ammo. There's also an older model 49 on there without a lock for $350.
Apparently you can remove the lock, there's instructions on here somewhere, but the search function seems to be f'ed up at the moment. I just picked up a 442 with lock for $375 off of backpage, came with a box of ammo. There's also an older model 49 on there without a lock for $350.
Thanks for the heads up Rider! Hope everything's going well for you.
Do the CT grips "snag" worse than the monogrips?
Nope. Less.
Alpha Sierra
03-22-10, 17:43
I, for one, fail to see the need for laser grips on a snub. But then again I can hit what I need with either aimed or point fire and consider the snub to be a 7-10 yard weapon.
Pretty much all I carry now a days. AIWB summer or coat pocket in the winter. Started with the 45 for a couple years, then the SC polymer for 4 or 5. Now the snub far more often than not. I do upgrade when going to locales (i.e. detroit) with larger groups of people but out in the country seeing more than two knuckleheads congregating is pretty unusual. As has been mentioned multiple times, one of the greatest things about the snub is being able to have it ready to go in your hand in the pocket without it being noticeable if something doesn't look/feel right.
+1000 on the CT grips, just haven't been able to snag a set yet.
"......and consider the snub to be a 7-10 yard weapon."
Well of course it is, right up until the point when it isn't. ;p
I dont have anything to add but pics!! The cheap wood grips will be replaces with CT Grips when funds allow.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/bgoode/442ls_2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/bgoode/442pair.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/bgoode/cylinder2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/bgoode/442pair2.jpg
I like the 442-1 over the 442-2 just because it has no MIM parts but the 442-2 will still do just fine and it has had a nice smooth trigger job :)
EDC 342 airLite titanium in a Mika pocket holster. Sometimes a 642-1 in a renegade cozy partner ankle rig. 342 has Hogue one piece 2 finger bantam grips and they work so well I ordered a set for the 642.
Shooting aimed shots with a j-frame requires a modified grip, and I've found the one suggested by Jerry Miculek to work best for me.
PRO TIPS with JERRY MICULEK (http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK2/miculek2.html), second to the last panel is the j-frame grip.
There was a gun rag article on sheriff Jack Weaver and iirc, the article stated that because of his long fingers he adapted the same grip as above - strong hand thumb tucked in and down, support thumb over strong hand. This was for full sized revolvers though.
While I used to carry a pair of j-frames almost all the time off duty (they were the only really small/light personal weapons authorized by my agency at the time), now I almost never carry JUST a j-frame. However, I do have a S&W M&P 340 that I wouldn't part with for love or money.
I will admit, though, that it has been largely eclipsed in the carry lineup by my PM9, which is lighter, easier to shoot accurately and quickly, has more ammunition on board, and is LIGHT YEARS faster to reload.
Even so, there are still times when the M&P ends up riding in my pocket as a third gun, or as a backup to the PM9 when it's REALLY hot & humid...
Regards,
Kevin
When my J-frames are primaries, there's always two of them. 642s and 442s. They go anywhere.
woodandsteel
03-22-10, 22:11
Does anyone know if S&W will be running any "no lock" 442 or 642s in the near future or if ever again?
Smith and Wesson still has the no-lock 442 listed on their website.
Budsgunshop still has some in stock;
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/31/products_id/56446
And OMB is showing that they are back ordered on them;
http://www.ombexpress.com/p_RV050.aspx?source=157INEMF. That is too bad about OMB, since they are about $70.00 cheaper than Buds.
I was under the impression that the no-lock 442 and 642 was here to stay. But, I could be wrong.
eta; I guess OMB is a police supplier. So, disregard about them. Although it shows that there are 442s and 642s out there without the lock.
SmokeJumper
03-22-10, 22:28
Don't really have any interesting stories about it, but my S&W 442 with CTC grips is mostly carried as a BUG. However, at home, taking out the garbage cans, getting the mail it is carried in a UM Pocket holster with 6rnd. speed strip.
I recently picked up my first snub revolver, an LCR. I carry either a 229 or G19 as my primary CCW and I have found times when I cannot carry those pistols due to what I I'm wearing or where I'm going. I picked up the LCR and an ankle rig to try out that method of carry. Thus far I really appreciate the ease of concealment that this combintation of carry allows me to go about my tasks without being unarmed. For example, I can carry to church in my normal attire without being uncomfy or drawing attention. Disclaimer: I would much rather have the Glock or Sig but I find the LCR is better suited for certain situations and helps me prevent being unarmed.
Dumb question, how do you determine whether it's a 442-1 or -2? And does anyone have a link to the lock removal instructions?
woodandsteel
03-22-10, 23:08
Dumb question, how do you determine whether it's a 442-1 or -2? And does anyone have a link to the lock removal instructions?
Open your cylinder. Where the crane meets the frame of the revolver, there should be the model number along with the dash number.
Dumb question, how do you determine whether it's a 442-1 or -2? And does anyone have a link to the lock removal instructions?
If the back of the trigger is solid, -1 or no dash forged trigger / hammer, if it's hollow, it's MIM and a -2.
FAQ's (http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/94072-faqs.html), smith-wessonforum.com member 500 Magnum Nut
The lock (http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1980-present/115110-lock-2.html), member 500 Magnum Nut
John_Wayne777
03-23-10, 06:27
Don't really have any interesting stories about it, but my S&W 442 with CTC grips is mostly carried as a BUG. However, at home, taking out the garbage cans, getting the mail it is carried in a UM Pocket holster with 6rnd. speed strip.
Same here. I find that the J frame is my all-the-time gun. I generally try to wear one of my M&P's as much as possible, but the J frame is on me practically 24/7 no matter what I'm doing.
Perfect? No...but J frame in the pocket beats the hell out of a quad .50 that you can't get to.
I have carried a S&W 442 as my backup/ankle gun for the past 4 years. On patrol I carried a G26 to back up my primary G19, but realized quickly that the G26 is a little too heavy for use as an ankle gun in dress clothes. (Investigative Work) The 442 in a galco ankle rig fits the bill nicely. It's light weight also enables me to carry it all the time off duty, where in the past I might have left a heavier weapon in my POV.
LandCruiser
03-23-10, 10:53
Does anyone know if S&W will be running any "no lock" 442 or 642s in the near future or if ever again?
There are still shops that have surplus no lock 442/642's around, but they are getting more expensive. I found mine locally after looking for about 6 months. It was such a good deal that I would be embarrassed for the seller to say. Just keeping looking and you'll find one with a low round count.
Dos Cylindros
03-23-10, 11:29
I carry an M&P 340 daily on duty as my BUG. It rides in a Galko ankle glove holster and is the most effective way for me to carry a BUG. I work plain clothes dope full time now, and the J frame on the ankle is very useful when seated in a car during surveillance. When people approach, the hand can drop down and be on the gun to bring it up with far less movement then trying to draw my G22 from the IWB holster pinned against the seat back.
I rarely carry only the J frame when off duty, but do find myself carrying it as a primary when I am walking with my wife/daughter/dog around my neighborhood. Even in hot weather, I usually carry my G23. I would probably like to have another G27 (sold my last one) to downsize my off duty primary, but the G23 has been rock solid so far.
Smith and Wesson still has the no-lock 442 listed on their website.
Budsgunshop still has some in stock;
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/31/products_id/56446.
Thanks for the heads up! After transfer fee and background check it'll put it at almost $500. A little steep for a J frame but I don't see too many more options for a new one at this time.
Just purchased a Ruger LCR and put 30 rds through it before I left the gun shop.
I have to say, from carrying a G17 everyday, to this is great.
I lose allot of rounds, but I will always have this, it was hard to carry the 17 every where, all the time.
It fits my SP101 gear as well, so I dont have to buy all new carry gear.
jasonhgross
03-23-10, 14:17
I have carried a S&W 642 for years as my summer time and most frequently carried pistol. I a civilian and only carry for personal protection. I am currently trying out a PM9 as my primary carry piece. Same size or smaller, same weight, but really the prime value it has is in a better trigger and better sights (in addition to more rounds and faster reloads). For most encounters though, I think a jframe you actually carry beats the Death Dealer 5000's most people claim to carry but we all know is in fact sitting at home in the safe.
Natchez has the LG-105s for $155, is it worth the extra $65 or so for the 305s or 405s?
Roger that Greg,
I apologize if misunderstood your post. I do agree that way too many people talk a big game about carrying but they usually side with what's comfortable and most of the time that's unarmed because the cool of carrying has worn off and sooner or later it becomes a chore and loses it's place on the priority list. But those same people wouldn't consider leaving their wallet or purse at home.
100% correct IMO. I work for a company that sells firearms and in VA you have to show 2 forms of ID. I would say that 15%-20% of the customers use their carry permit as the second form of ID. Talking to them during the sale, about 75% of the customers admit to not carrying often or at all.
LandCruiser
03-24-10, 09:25
Anybody looking for a non lock 642, it is up in the Pacific Northwest for $400 and probably negotiable:
http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25051
Ruger LCR in pocket and or ankle holster for times when I can not take my Glock 26 or 19 as my EDC primary choices. I am awaiting on the arrival of an AWIB tuckable holster for my LCR and still trying to find a tuckable AIWB for my Glocks that dont allow the grip to pull away from my body...
Everyday carry on duty or off is a S&W 342 w/ CT 105's in a DeSantis Nemesis with 1 or 2 speed strips in back pocket by wallet.
On duty as back up front left pocket
Off duty as a back up front left pocket
RARLEY off duty as primary either belt rig or Pocket
Right now as Im watching hocky, front pocket of my Adidas sweat pants
Smith 340Pd
125Grain gold dot ( required by Dpt)
OMB/Express Police Supply does indeed sell to "civilians, and just recently sent out an e-mail ad for no-lock 442s coming in for sale(100 of them IIRC).
I have several J frames, but they are almost never a primary, anymore that is.
Mine are 642s and a 638 (I have a 317 for a .22 practice gun, but it gets carried in the woods at times).
On dark night in Washington DC circa 1994 I had occasion to miss the last Metro train that night and had to walk like 14 blocks back to the hotel with a very attractive blond, during the course of this walk I had my 642 in hand four different times, on one occasion due to three mopes going into robbery mode. After that night I think that I'll make a habit of carrying a bigger gun always.
Fast forward to 2001 and I'm in Gulfport Miss. (where I have never been before and I am unaware is full of dochebags) for a TEES course and I am walking the beach after dark by myself when three dudes spot me out away from the boardwalk and start my way, they go into a wedge formation as they approach.
My plan was to shoot everybody once and to go back for seconds on anyone still standing and not running away, I feel rather unready for this event and mentally debate the choices of reloading with a Speed Strip or transitioning to my Spyderco if I run out of ammo and the fight is still on.
Fortunately the CT laser dot on the sand between us convinced them to go away.
I now only use J frames as a BUG to a Glock 9mm of one size or another.
I learn slow, but I learn well.
I am a huge believer in the CT laser grips and all my .38 J frames have a set of 305s.
Ammo lately has been 135gr Gold Dot, DPX, 158gr Remington LSWCHP or wadcutters, depending on what I have available and what shoots ot the sights in that particular gun.
I've been using the 8 rounds Tuff Strips for my reload lately as well.
Thanks for the heads up! After transfer fee and background check it'll put it at almost $500. A little steep for a J frame but I don't see too many more options for a new one at this time.
I picked up that model 49. Shoulda jumped on it. :D
John_Wayne777
03-25-10, 13:51
I learn slow, but I learn well.
This is the lesson I can't seem to get through some people's heads. I carry a J frame every day and for what it is it's a great gun...but there's no way in hell I want to be in a gunfight with one, especially against multiple bad guys. Small and light with limited capacity is great when you're carrying, but it sucks when you're fighting. If you genuinely can't do better because of circumstances, it beats the hell out of fingernails.
If you can do better, do it and let the J frame ride as a capable BUG.
prestonoconnor
03-25-10, 18:03
A 642 with crimson trace grips is my go to gun for those times I can't carry a bigger one. I am embarassed to admit I carry it way more than than I should. Plus I often carry it as backup/second gun to hand off to qualified persons.
Doing a little more research and need a little advice as this is my first J frame and BUG. S&W now lists a 442 & 642 Pro Series revolver without the lock for $640. The only difference I can tell from their site is the Pro is cylinder cut for moon clips. I am not very familiar with revolvers and was wondering if this would be something worth while in a BUG or is the standard no lock 442/642 preferred for a couple hundred less? The Pro model is a current offering with a price but the standard doesn't list it, I believe this is due to availability. The money saved on the standard, if I can find one, would be put towards Crimson Trace grips.
Standard 442 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=82470&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y
Pro 442 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=760530&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y
Standard 642 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=82463&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y
Pro 642 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=760528&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15704&isFirearm=Y
Anyone else can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the main benefit to the moon clips would be a faster reload. You can just drop the clip in instead of using a speedloader that you would have to insert and turn.
Anyone else can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the main benefit to the moon clips would be a faster reload. You can just drop the clip in instead of using a speedloader that you would have to insert and turn.
That's my understanding as well but I'm not sure if that would be a worth while addition to a BUG for $200. My initial thought is no that it's not necessary.
They work for Jerry Miculek :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giSaNiQ-Wb4
That's my understanding as well but I'm not sure if that would be a worth while addition to a BUG for $200. My initial thought is no that it's not necessary.
They work for Jerry Miculek :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giSaNiQ-Wb4
You're not Jerry Miculek.
:D
John_Wayne777
03-31-10, 13:23
Moon clips are indeed faster to reload than speedloaders...hence the reason why revolvers that use moon clips are very popular in competition. Generally it works best if the chambers have also been chamfered to allow the rounds in the moon clip to find center.
I don't have much firsthand experience with J frames that use moon clips. The only ones I ever messed with were the 9mm revolvers S&W made years ago and even then that was brief.
But...speaking as a dude who carries the J frame every day, I would take the CT grip equipped J frame ANY DAY over a J frame that used moon clips if I had to choose between those options. With the right speed loader the standard J frame can be reloaded with a reasonable amount of speed. I prefer the Safariland speed loaders because they simply require pressing the speed loader into the cylinder and then they release the rounds into the chambers. Then you can simply close the action and the speed loader falls away.
The CT grips on the J frame allow accuracy under a wide range of conditions that you simply cannot get with the traditional J frame sights. I want a better shot at putting my rounds where they need to be than the ability to reload another 5 rounds slightly quicker.
After living with the CT grips on a J frame for a while, I regard them as a necessity. I'll never be without them on a J frame I carry again.
But...speaking as a dude who carries the J frame every day, I would take the CT grip equipped J frame ANY DAY over a J frame that used moon clips if I had to choose between those options. With the right speed loader the standard J frame can be reloaded with a reasonable amount of speed. I prefer the Safariland speed loaders because they simply require pressing the speed loader into the cylinder and then they release the rounds into the chambers. Then you can simply close the action and the speed loader falls away.
The CT grips on the J frame allow accuracy under a wide range of conditions that you simply cannot get with the traditional J frame sights. I want a better shot at putting my rounds where they need to be than the ability to reload another 5 rounds slightly quicker.
Thanks JW, exactly what I was looking for.
I agree with JW, especially since you can pick up the LG-105s from Natchez Shooters Supply for $155 right now.
TriumphRat675
03-31-10, 13:39
Revolvers using moon clips are, IMHO, more limiting than a standard revolver - I have two using rimless auto cartridges and you have to use the moon clips to ensure ignition and to eject the cartridges. Plus, if the moon clip gets bent you may have some difficulty making the gun functional.
You will also be precluded from using the bianchi speedstrips, which are the most concealable reload I have found - you can fit 10 rounds in the coin pocket of your jeans with no problem. Moon clips aren't as convenient to carry every day or as easy to hide. YMMV.
I can get either the 642 ($455) or the 442 ($466), both with no lock, from my local dealer through his distributor in 3 days. The price is a bit high but I'll spend the extra money now knowing I can get one without a lock versus later and being stuck with the thing, I don't want to have to modify the lock. I am set on purchasing one or the other, any recommendations and reasons why to choose one over the other? :confused:
The info I've seen states that:
The S&W Model 442 has a matte (black) finished aluminum alloy frame with a blued carbon steel barrel, cylinder and yoke.
The S&W Model 642 has a satin (silver) finished aluminum alloy frame with a stainless steel barrel, cylinder and yoke.
TriumphRat675
03-31-10, 14:36
for a carry gun that will be sweated on, I like stainless steel or a rust-resistant coating. blueing is too maintenance intensive for me, or i am too lazy.
John_Wayne777
03-31-10, 14:37
The 442's finish tends to be more durable over the long haul. The 442's finish is not blued, it's a polymer finish that holds up well.
Also, as discovered by owners on the Smith-Wessonforum.com, the new 442s WITH the lock still have carbon steel barrels/cylinders, but everyone thats posted about their new production NO LOCK 442 has a stainless barrel and carbon steel cylinder. Thats not a bad thing either. Open the cylinder and look at the bottom of the barrel and you will see a small S stamped there, this indicates stainless. The markings on the barrels and the front sights are also different between the two different materials. They are coated in a black finish though.
I have both the new no lock 442 and 642. My 442 has the stainless barrel.
The 442's finish tends to be more durable over the long haul. The 442's finish is not blued, it's a polymer finish that holds up well.
With that in mind I just ordered the 442. Now it's time to start researching pocket holsters, etc. Thanks for the input and advice, it is appreciated.
With that in mind I just ordered the 442. Now it's time to start researching pocket holsters, etc. Thanks for the input and advice, it is appreciated.
Most of the really nice pocket holsters I've seen are custom jobs; also, some of the worst.
I believe Galco makes a decent OTC J-frame pocket holster.
On the subject of clip-fed revolvers, I am a fan. I agree with just about everyone who has said something on the subject above, but have my own take on it.
A revolvers' weakness is its reload capability; its strength is reliability. The difference between regular and moon clip revolvers only makes itself felt during reloads. For street carry, if more than five shots are necessary, I'd rather have two revolvers, and reloading (hopefully) is optional. If I can carry only one, and I have to reload, I'd want a clip fed one.
One thing that most people don't comment on is that extraction with moon clips is, for lack of a better word, positive. I own several moon clip revolvers and have never seen or heard of one that did not efficiently extract each and every case each and every time. You can't say that about regular revolvers, and extraction problems mean loading problems.
I agree with the statement that speed strips are more concealable than moon clips, but that is a clothing issue. How many of us modify dress to accommodate carry?
I use the Desantis Nemesis for my Glock 26, just ordered one for my J frame, 18 bucks on Natchez.
TriumphRat675
03-31-10, 16:13
I agree with the statement that speed strips are more concealable than moon clips, but that is a clothing issue. How many of us modify dress to accommodate carry?
To my mind, if I am dressing to accomodate carry I try to accomodate a more effective weapon than the j-frame. I carry the j-frame as a primary when dressing to accomodate a full-sized M&P is difficult, impractical or uncomfortable enough I will leave it at home - like when I wear a tailored suit, or shorts and a T-shirt in the summer, or am just stepping out. I also tend to have a lot of crap in my pockets - keys, cell phone, knife, etc., and don't like fishing around in there for a speedloader or moon clip. So tucking a speedstrip in my coin pocket works well under the circumstances I carry the j-frame in.
You are right that you get more positive, reliable extraction with the moonclips. For my uses, I prefer a standard revo for the reasons already listed.
LockenLoad
04-01-10, 10:25
j-frames are very effective just hit your target, j-frame with laser = deadly weapon in the trained hand, I am kind of tired of hearing about high round count, it is rarely needed by civilians
What John Wayne said is a big +1 for me.
I've carried a 642 since they were invented, great carry guns, great as a BUG, laser grips make them even better.
Moon clips work great in competition, but in real life they can't easily be carried due to being easy to bend, when bent they will lock up the cylinder badly.
I got quite a bit of experience with this when I had a S&W 940.
What types & brands of holsters are people using? I'm assuming you don't just stick your J frame in your pocket & go.
I carry a 642 everyday, either as a BUG or a primary. I can conceal my Commander most days, but whe I can't, the 642 rides alone. A great revolver, I don't find it difficult to shoot at all.
The proof that it works? A co-worker asked me the other day why I never carry at work. As we stood there talking, it was resting in my right front pocket.
I really like the snubbie .It is small and it will be with you . If you plan on going into a [war zone] I would have to agree and a higher cap pistol would be way way better but then an A/R or AK with 10 30 rnd magazines would be better. How many times do you even need 5 shots? Usually a we carry just in case. I am not going to go into trouble if at all possible, Cops may not have a choice but to go into trouble. Just my opinion.
As much as I love a leather holster, for pocket carry I prefer a synthetic version (I thnk mine is a Kramer) with a tacky outside surface. I practice drawing from the pocket, and this style has never hung up or come out with the gun.
Just tossing it in your pocket is a bad idea, for concealment reasons, wear on the gun, consistent orientation for draw, and the junk that accumates in a pocket can get into the crevices of you gun. I have done it a few times, once, I swear to God I pulled my gun out for the night, and it had a rolled up reciept stuck in the barrel. Always use a holster.
John_Wayne777
04-01-10, 15:19
I really like the snubbie .It is small and it will be with you . If you plan on going into a [war zone] I would have to agree and a higher cap pistol would be way way better but then an A/R or AK with 10 30 rnd magazines would be better. How many times do you even need 5 shots?
You don't...until you do, and then you need them really, really, really bad....pretty much the same thing that can be said about needing a handgun in the first place. Therein lies the problem with the J frame.
5 rounds on tap is not very many in a gunfight. Fully adrenalized and facing a lethal threat that nasty, heavy, DA trigger that you curse on the range when shooting bullseye will not be an impediment to shooting 5 rounds really fast.
I am not going to go into trouble if at all possible
...and that's the other point. One rarely gets the decision about whether or not to go "into trouble." Generally you are just handed what you are handed and you have to deal with it using only what you've got on you at that exact moment.
J frames are certainly much better than fingernails and have, in fact, stopped a lot of bad guys in the half century or so that they've been around, but J frames have their limits.
John_Wayne777
04-01-10, 15:31
What types & brands of holsters are people using? I'm assuming you don't just stick your J frame in your pocket & go.
Desantis Nemesis is what I've used practically every day. I would never advise just sticking it in the pocket as that makes it print more easily, makes the revolver move around more (orientation can suck for a draw) and makes the accumulation of crud more likely. Even a revolver can be gummed up by a gum wrapper that manages to wedge itself into the action.
As a bonus, the nemesis is cheap and very durable.
kaiservontexas
04-01-10, 15:55
I carry a snub nose Rossi .357mag stainless on occasion. I have to agree with John Wayne 777 that packing in a pocket does shift the draw as the revolver bounces around in the pocket. I never thought about crud, but then again I do not pocket anything next to the pistol.
I have a pocket holster from El Paso Saddlery that works nicely in jeans or trouser pockets and in coat pockets too.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/ronssmith/20100326003a.jpg
Count me in. Just picked her up today along with some practice rounds and some Gold Dots. :D
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5153/carshoweaster.jpg (http://img528.imageshack.us/i/carshoweaster.jpg/)
ROCKET20_GINSU
04-12-10, 02:43
irishluck73,
Nice blaster, +1 on CT lasergrips everyone else has been suggesting, absolutely a must IMO on a defensive J-Frame. They will not transform a 5 rd 2in revolver into a full size service pistol, but they do add very good attributes to the gun and give it the capability to do somethings that you otherwise would have a much difficult time doing.
I have tried the uncle mikes pocket holster but I didn't like it very much. I have a Mika pocket holster that works terrific, and it fits my 642 w/ CT grips great. I also own one of the older Alessi Ankle holsters and the way the leather is cut to mold over the rear of the cylinder for retention interferes with the diode housing of the laser grips, It still fits but it is not nearly as secure as if the diode housing was not there and the leather was allowed to wrap completely around the cylinder. The newer alessi ankle holsters that I have seen pictures of in the internet are cut to accommodate CT grips, just wanted to make you aware incase you were considering this holster and form of carry down the road.
GU
What types & brands of holsters are people using? I'm assuming you don't just stick your J frame in your pocket & go.
I tried a bunch of different pocket holsters. I found Mika pocket holsters to be the best.
j-frames are very effective just hit your target, j-frame with laser = deadly weapon in the trained hand, I am kind of tired of hearing about high round count, it is rarely needed by civilians
Yep, it's always about high round count and multiple BGs. Too many movies or too much testosterone in most cases. If people use their heads and stay out of bad situations, 99% civilians will never need their gun. Too many people use their CCL as a license to do stupid shit, like stop at quick marts in bad parts of town at 2:00 in the morning. Seems like a lot of people are just itching to shoot someone.
A five shot revolver is for defensive purposes, not a stand and fight gun. If by some chance there are multiply BGs, they'll scatter after the first shot or two and I'll start running. I will do everything in my power to avoid a shooting though. Even a justified homicide has the potential to cost you a lot of money, time, stress and possibly end up in prison, depending on how witnesses perceive events.
John_Wayne777
04-13-10, 21:59
Yep, it's always about high round count and multiple BGs. Too many movies or too much testosterone in most cases.
*SIGH* No, it has to do with the very real documented fact that bad guys often travel and work in packs. Again I say:
I have yet to meet anyone who has survived a gunfight and come out the other side complaining that they took too much ammo into it.
If people use their heads and stay out of bad situations, 99% civilians will never need their gun.
I was just discussing that with an instructor over the weekend. He related a bit of information that Tom Givens teaches:
Every rape, robbery, mugging, attempted murder, severe assault etc in this country is generally an opportunity to use lethal force. The problem is that the victims are usually unarmed in these encounters, and as such you don't see too many gunfights...just victims. That "99%" number would change dramatically if 50% of the intended victims of these crimes were armed. You'd see a lot more guns being pulled and a lot more shots being fired.
Oh, and this "civilians don't need it" nonsense needs to be held up to some intellectual scrutiny. Those big bad mean dudes that the cops roll out in SWAT teams to serve warrants on? The ones that you see cops approach with drawn firearms and long guns? Do you know how they end up on the police radar?
...by victimizing ordinary joes. That means that the guy that the SWAT team approaches with an armored car, level IV body armor, and a dozen machine guns picks a fight with someone like you before it ever comes to the point where a SWAT ninja is shooting it out with him.
Too many people use their CCL as a license to do stupid shit, like stop at quick marts in bad parts of town at 2:00 in the morning. Seems like a lot of people are just itching to shoot someone.
And on what, praytell, do you base that assertion?
A five shot revolver is for defensive purposes, not a stand and fight gun.
You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that you will get to pick what kind of fight you face.
I have news for you:
You won't. You will not get to decide how many bad guys there will be, when the fight will start, or when the fight will be over. You will be stuck handling whatever situation is handed to you. If your game plan is based on the theory that the bad guy will piss himself and run, you'll be screwed if it doesn't go down that way.
If by some chance there are multiply BGs, they'll scatter after the first shot or two and I'll start running.
Read this:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=45461
Single bad guy who did not flee at the sight of a gun. He did not flee when shots were fired. He fled when he ran out of ammo.
So much for the scatter theory. Contrary to what some people may believe, all criminals are not afraid of having a gun pointed at them. There are government agencies and experts who collect data on gunfights and after examining thousands of them they've come to some conclusions about how gunfights generally go. A gunfight is defined as any situation where two or more parties exchange fire. Generally the gunfight continues until somebody runs out of ammo. If they are still able to move when they run out of ammo, they usually beat feet.
Thus it behooves you to be the guy who doesn't run out of ammo first.
J frames are fine little guns for what they are...but again, let's be realistic about this. Under the extreme stress of a life or death encounter the dominant instinct of most people is to point the gun in the general direction of the threat and pull the trigger as fast as humanly possible. If you're convinced that you won't do this, I would have to ask how many gunfights you've been in previously, because I can assure you that the first one is a real doozy. Absent significant training and preparation it's unrealistic to expect that you'll react to it like a highly trained, steely-eyed killer who makes a lethal hit with every pull of the trigger.
Nobody gets to pick what kind of fight they are going to face. If you aren't kicking in doors to take some pain to bad guys, then odds are you are going to be reacting to the hostile actions of an aggressor. If you draw and put a single bullet in his CNS that kills him instantly, I guaran-damn-tee you will not resent having another dozen or so rounds in the weapon.
*SIGH* No, it has to do with the very real documented fact that bad guys often travel and work in packs. Again I say:
I have yet to meet anyone who has survived a gunfight and come out the other side complaining that they took too much ammo into it.
Bad guys do often travel and work in packs. Stay alert to your surroundings and go in the opposite direction. Run if you must. I'm betting that most rapes, robberies, muggings, and attempted murders on civilians are carried out by a single assailant, as opposed to packs of roving gangs.
Sure, it's always a good thing to have plenty of bullets, but five should be sufficient for most civilian situations. Most civilian shootings will occur at close distances - i.e. 21 feet and in. If you can't hit them with five shots, I doubt you'll do much better with ten.
I was just discussing that with an instructor over the weekend. He related a bit of information that Tom Givens teaches:
Every rape, robbery, mugging, attempted murder, severe assault etc in this country is generally an opportunity to use lethal force. The problem is that the victims are usually unarmed in these encounters, and as such you don't see too many gunfights...just victims. That "99%" number would change dramatically if 50% of the intended victims of these crimes were armed. You'd see a lot more guns being pulled and a lot more shots being fired.
True, but I bet most of these "victims" weren't paying attention to their surroundings, knew and trusted the assailant or lived in bad parts of town (Read: ghetto). My post was using the assumption that most of us live in decent middle or upper class neighborhoods.
Oh, and this "civilians don't need it" nonsense needs to be held up to some intellectual scrutiny. Those big bad mean dudes that the cops roll out in SWAT teams to serve warrants on? The ones that you see cops approach with drawn firearms and long guns? Do you know how they end up on the police radar?
...by victimizing ordinary joes. That means that the guy that the SWAT team approaches with an armored car, level IV body armor, and a dozen machine guns picks a fight with someone like you before it ever comes to the point where a SWAT ninja is shooting it out with him.
How often do you see SWAT going in to decent neighborhoods to apprehend a violent felon? It's almost always in the ghetto, for an offense committed in or close to the ghetto. (Read: stay out of bad parts of town)
And on what, praytell, do you base that assertion?
Reading multiple posts in multiple firearm forums. A lot of CCL holders seem to put themselves in stupid situations that they wouldn't have, if they wouldn't have been heeled.
You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that you will get to pick what kind of fight you face.
I have news for you:
You won't. You will not get to decide how many bad guys there will be, when the fight will start, or when the fight will be over. You will be stuck handling whatever situation is handed to you. If your game plan is based on the theory that the bad guy will piss himself and run, you'll be screwed if it doesn't go down that way.
I'm operating under the assumption that staying alert to your surroundings can prevent a lot of bad situations. I'm also operating under the assumption that if I can't stop the aggressor and escape with five shots, my odds probably aren't that much higher with fifteen shots.
Single bad guy who did not flee at the sight of a gun. He did not flee when shots were fired. He fled when he ran out of ammo.
So much for the scatter theory. Contrary to what some people may believe, all criminals are not afraid of having a gun pointed at them. There are government agencies and experts who collect data on gunfights and after examining thousands of them they've come to some conclusions about how gunfights generally go. A gunfight is defined as any situation where two or more parties exchange fire. Generally the gunfight continues until somebody runs out of ammo. If they are still able to move when they run out of ammo, they usually beat feet.
I don't think that one guy having balls, being drunk and/or high and not fleeing, constitutes a pattern. I understand that not all criminals will run, but a lot will at least look for cover. If they don't, and there are three or four of them, I don't stand much of a chance anyway. Then again, I don't venture into the ghetto much. When I see multiple people with their pants hung low, I drive down the road to the next gas station.
As far as all the government stats on gunfights, I don't put a lot of stock in them. What percentage of those do you think are non-gang related, non-LEO related, civilian encounters? I think those studies give a skewed point of view because most of the shootings are LEO or gang related. Correct me if I'm wrong.
J frames are fine little guns for what they are...but again, let's be realistic about this. Under the extreme stress of a life or death encounter the dominant instinct of most people is to point the gun in the general direction of the threat and pull the trigger as fast as humanly possible. If you're convinced that you won't do this, I would have to ask how many gunfights you've been in previously, because I can assure you that the first one is a real doozy. Absent significant training and preparation it's unrealistic to expect that you'll react to it like a highly trained, steely-eyed killer who makes a lethal hit with every pull of the trigger.
Nobody gets to pick what kind of fight they are going to face. If you aren't kicking in doors to take some pain to bad guys, then odds are you are going to be reacting to the hostile actions of an aggressor. If you draw and put a single bullet in his CNS that kills him instantly, I guaran-damn-tee you will not resent having another dozen or so rounds in the weapon.
All valid points and no, I've never been in a gun fight. I'm usually pretty calm in tense situations and hope if I ever have to draw down, I'll make calm well placed shots. If I react by spraying bullets, it won't matter if I have twenty shots as most will be in the ground or over their head.
Look, I'm not trying to argue with you JW and I don't want to as I'm sure I'll lose. I'm just ranting because firearm forums tend to over analyze every possible situation and how to be prepared for each one, no matter how improbable. Thus, you end up with civilians carrying .45s with multiple magazines (countless caliber threads on all gun forums - it seems anything less than a .45 will only piss people off :rolleyes:).
I just think it gets a little ridiculous. I know of two shootings where the shooter had a .22 revolver. In one instance a perp shot and killed two cops. The other was a pizza delivery guy (I think the father of modern day kevlar vests) and I believe he also killed two guys. Again, both of these were with .22 revolvers. I think being heeled with any reliable firearm will serve you well if you shoot it straight.
Thus, you end up with civilians carrying .45s with multiple magazines (countless caliber threads on all gun forums - it seems anything less than a .45 will only piss people off :rolleyes:).
I'll go out on a limb here and say that most people on this forum would say 9mm is the way to fly in terms of handguns. Please check out the ballistics section of this site and peruse the articles written by DocGKR, there's a ton of info to be gleaned.
Your arguments about hitting someone with 5 rounds VS 15 doesn't hold a lot of water. If that were the case why not just use a single shot pistol? Not in an effort to argue with you, but more is definitely merrier.
LockenLoad
04-14-10, 02:12
I will agree with that statement buy I will still take my inferior hk45c
roberto232
04-14-10, 02:46
My duty carry is a Glock 31 in .357 sig, I carry off duty about 85% of the time a Glock 32 in .357 sig. My back up at work and the other 15% of the off duty carry is a S&W 442 with a Crimson Trace grip. Very easy to conceal when you can’t have the bulk or just running to the store with a pair of floppy shorts. The gun is so light and it will get you out of a bind.
How do you guys like the strip things from Bianchi? I’d like to hear from everyone of the wheel guys on how you carry your back up ammo. Also how much ammo do you normally carry?
Thanks and Stay Safe Out There……
How do you guys like the strip things from Bianchi? I’d like to hear from everyone of the wheel guys on how you carry your back up ammo. Also how much ammo do you normally carry?
For pocket carry, speed strips are the way to go. I carry one 6-round speed strip in the opposite-side front pocket. You can check out Tuff QuickStrips (http://www.tuffproducts.com/product.php?productid=16279&cat=265&page=1), too.
John_Wayne777
04-14-10, 08:01
Bad guys do often travel and work in packs. Stay alert to your surroundings and go in the opposite direction. Run if you must. I'm betting that most rapes, robberies, muggings, and attempted murders on civilians are carried out by a single assailant, as opposed to packs of roving gangs.
Sure, it's always a good thing to have plenty of bullets, but five should be sufficient for most civilian situations. Most civilian shootings will occur at close distances - i.e. 21 feet and in. If you can't hit them with five shots, I doubt you'll do much better with ten.
At this point I'm forced to ask just how much formal training you have with a handgun.
True, but I bet most of these "victims" weren't paying attention to their surroundings, knew and trusted the assailant or lived in bad parts of town (Read: ghetto). My post was using the assumption that most of us live in decent middle or upper class neighborhoods.
Like the nice upper-middle-class neighborhoods in my area where mexican gangbangers are busting in with 3 or more dudes to rob the joint? How about the upper-middle-class student housing complexes where they've had gang shootings and stabbings lately?
"Nice" neighborhoods do not have an invisible barrier that keeps bad guys away.
How often do you see SWAT going in to decent neighborhoods to apprehend a violent felon? It's almost always in the ghetto, for an offense committed in or close to the ghetto. (Read: stay out of bad parts of town)
Dude...the people that make parts of town "bad" have feet, bus passes, and usually the ability to at least steal a car. In my area young women have been abducted within eyesight of a police station in a "good" neighborhood.
Bad stuff happens outside the ghetto.
I'm operating under the assumption that staying alert to your surroundings can prevent a lot of bad situations.
It certainly can prevent involvement in bad situations...but it's not a guarantee. Being human, you are capable of letting your guard down. That's when you'll get bit.
I'm also operating under the assumption that if I can't stop the aggressor and escape with five shots, my odds probably aren't that much higher with fifteen shots.
That's a pretty goofy assumption. Consider: The average person can fire a shot every 1/4 of a second under stress. With 5 shots you've got 1.25 seconds. With 15 you've got 3.75 seconds. That extra 2.5 seconds of being able to put rounds at/in a bad guy makes a huge difference. 2.5 seconds is a long time in a gunfight.
I don't think that one guy having balls, being drunk and/or high and not fleeing, constitutes a pattern.
That is but one example out of too many to recount of an ordinary joe in a "nice" part of town who ended up coming across a violent felon who did not, in fact, wet his pants and beat feat at the first sign of armed resistance.
I understand that not all criminals will run, but a lot will at least look for cover. If they don't, and there are three or four of them, I don't stand much of a chance anyway.
Your mindset sucks, dude.
Then again, I don't venture into the ghetto much. When I see multiple people with their pants hung low, I drive down the road to the next gas station.
Again you seem to believe avoidance will be an option. The most experienced bad guys pick their ground and the circumstances specifically to remove that option off the menu. The hardest of the hardcore are the ones most likely to catch you off guard and are, consequently, the ones that you'll most likely have to kill to preserve your life functions.
As far as all the government stats on gunfights, I don't put a lot of stock in them.
:confused:
So when considering the nature of gunfights you ignore actual data gathered from real gunfights?
That makes absolutely no sense.
What percentage of those do you think are non-gang related, non-LEO related, civilian encounters? I think those studies give a skewed point of view because most of the shootings are LEO or gang related. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Among the dashcam videos there are also plenty of security cam videos of people who don't wear a badge involved in a shootout with bad guys. When bullets are flying badges on chests mean nothing. It's kill or be killed. It's close, personal, and ugly whether you are an LAPD sergeant or a regular joe.
If I react by spraying bullets, it won't matter if I have twenty shots as most will be in the ground or over their head.
Twenty shots gives you a VASTLY LARGER MARGIN OF ERROR than 5.
Look, I'm not trying to argue with you JW and I don't want to as I'm sure I'll lose. I'm just ranting because firearm forums tend to over analyze every possible situation and how to be prepared for each one, no matter how improbable.
It was highly improbable that I would be minding my own business and end up on the wrong end of a .38 revolver...and yet I ended up there. While bleeding from a (thankfully minor) GSW I came to the conclusion that it sucked.
I'm not talking about preparation for a zombie apocalypse...I'm talking about events that happen every single day in this country. Yes, they happen more often in some places than others, but you have absolutely no idea who is out there or what they are capable of. There's video from a stop 'n' rob out there of a guy who ended up in a gunfight because he had the audacity to reach around another guy (after saying "Excuse me, sir") to pick up items he had left on the counter. The other guy was apparently pissed off. He left, went to his car, got a pistol, and then came at the first guy with the intent of murdering him right there.
His victim was armed, thankfully, and managed to put bullets into him....but only after being shot himself. Yet another situation where the intended victim pulled a gun but the bad guy didn't piss himself and run. They exchanged gunfire and the bad guy lost.
Thus, you end up with civilians carrying .45s with multiple magazines
The off-duty cop who ended up facing an active shooter while he was eating pizza in that Utah Mall probably wished he had multiple magazines when he had run out of ammo and was hoping the cavalry would arrive in time to take out the shooter. The carry of spare magazines is a good practice. As for .45, yes, lots of people believe lots of incorrect things about terminal ballistics. The truth is that a properly loaded 9mm will do anything one can reasonably expect of a handgun. .45's work when loaded well, too.
I just think it gets a little ridiculous. I know of two shootings where the shooter had a .22 revolver. In one instance a perp shot and killed two cops. The other was a pizza delivery guy (I think the father of modern day kevlar vests) and I believe he also killed two guys. Again, both of these were with .22 revolvers.
...and I can point to loads of scientific data and real world gunfight results that show the dangers of insufficient penetration. A .22 is better than fingernails, but not by much. It gets "ridiculous" when people talk about zombie apocalypses. It's not the least bit ridiculous to base decisions and outlook on events that happen every day.
I think being heeled with any reliable firearm will serve you well if you shoot it straight.
A reliable gun is a good start. A reliable gun in a decent caliber loaded with good ammunition is a really good start.
Here's the reality:
If you are actually having to draw a gun to shoot someone in the face so that you can stay alive, you are having a really bad day. Do not expect that your day is going to suddenly start going your way once you clear leather.
I say again:
Nobody has ever complained that they had too much ammo or too capable of a weapon in a gunfight. Generally those who have actually been in a scrape or two take their equipment selection very seriously, and for good reason.
The proper way to look at equipment selection is to start out in the moment where you're trying to accomplish the goal of putting a bad guy down and continuing to live. Ask yourself what you really want in that moment. Speaking personally, I can't carry an M240, artillery support, and a company of Marines with me everywhere I go, so I back down to what I can realistically carry most of the time. With the right carry gear I can comfortably carry an M&P, a couple of spare magazines, and a J frame as a BUG.
...so that's what I carry. Now I may never need all of that, but if I need even a tiny fraction of it I sure as hell won't be mad that I have the rest in reserve.
Like the nice upper-middle-class neighborhoods in my area where mexican gangbangers are busting in with 3 or more dudes to rob the joint? How about the upper-middle-class student housing complexes where they've had gang shootings and stabbings lately?
"Nice" neighborhoods do not have an invisible barrier that keeps bad guys away.
...the people that make parts of town "bad" have feet, bus passes, and usually the ability to at least steal a car. In my area young women have been abducted within eyesight of a police station in a "good" neighborhood.
Bad stuff happens outside the ghetto.
Excellent post. The above description fits Las Vegas. You can be in the nicest neighborhood here and run into the biggest dirtbags. I regularly carry a Glock 17 and 2 spare mags, I picked up the J frame as a back up to this. At minimum I have a 26 and a spare mag on me.
This occurred a short distance down the road from the part of town Irish and I live in, which isn't considered a bad part of town. The victim was a close friend of one of my co-workers:
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12244733
trappernana
04-14-10, 09:37
I have a Model 60 I've carried as a back-up for years. I love it. It, in fact, began a love of wheel guns that has my wife a little pissed off. At one point I had 9 wheel guns,for me that was alot. Unfortunately, current finances has kicked me back down to 3. My Model 60 being one of them.;)
Excellent post. The above description fits Las Vegas. You can be in the nicest neighborhood here and run into the biggest dirtbags. I regularly carry a Glock 17 and 2 spare mags, I picked up the J frame as a back up to this. At minimum I have a 26 and a spare mag on me.
This occurred a short distance down the road from the part of town Irish and I live in, which isn't considered a bad part of town. The victim was a close friend of one of my co-workers:
http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12244733
People who are unfortunate enough to live in the "ghetto" aren't going to be breaking in and robbing other people who live there and don't have anything to steal. They'll be coming to your house with the plasma, nice stereo and guns in your suburban white community.
Also, with the amount of real estate that's lost over 50% of it's value in places all over the country you're going to find many undesirables moving into your neighborhood who couldn't previously afford it. This may not affect rural people much but it's a growing concern in many larger cities across the US. The bottom basement low prices mean you can't keep out the people that you moved to that area for in the first place.
Don't forget how many people who bought investment properties who are now desperate to get someone in it to rent so they don't foreclose on the property. The standards are being lowered every day and with the economy in the shitter they'll take just about anyone.
An example taken from the article here: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/30/business/la-fi-hemet30-2010mar30
Home foreclosures have devastated neighborhoods throughout the country, but the transformation from suburban paradise to blighted community has been especially stark in places like Willowalk -- isolated developments on the far fringes of metropolitan areas that found ready buyers when home prices were soaring but then saw an exodus as values crashed.
Vacant homes are sprinkled throughout Willowalk, betrayed by foot-high grass. Others are rented, including some to families that use government Section 8 vouchers to live in homes with granite countertops and vaulted ceilings.
When the development opened in 2006, buyers were drawn to the area by advertising describing it as a "gated lakeshore community." Now, many in Hemet call Willowalk the "gated ghetto," said John Occhi, a local real estate agent.
There are dozens of places like Willowalk, and they are turning into America's newest slums, says Christopher Leinberger, a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution.
Ryder - I saw that article the other day, way too close to my house! And the 2 little kids who fell off the 3rd story balcony of an apartment complex due to their ghetto ass Section 8 mom being drunk in the afternoon, right by the Vons. I'm moving.
For pocket carry, speed strips are the way to go. I carry one 6-round speed strip in the opposite-side front pocket. You can check out Tuff QuickStrips (http://www.tuffproducts.com/product.php?productid=16279&cat=265&page=1), too.
I'm new to the J frame BUG world, and I guess it depends on where you're carrying your revolver, but wouldn't you want your speed strip on your strong side? Reason being from my understanding is you transition the revolver to your weak hand, usually the left, when reloading there by using the strong hand to do the reloading. Just a thought and someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Beat Trash
04-14-10, 13:02
I'm new to the J frame BUG world, and I guess it depends on where you're carrying your revolver, but wouldn't you want your speed strip on your strong side? Reason being from my understanding is you transition the revolver to your weak hand, usually the left, when reloading there by using the strong hand to do the reloading. Just a thought and someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes and no...
Yes, when I reload a revolver, I transition the gun to my weak hand, so ideally I would want the reload in my strong side pocket.
The realistic problem with that is if I carry the gun in my strong side pocket, then the reload has to go in the weak side pocket. You quickly learn not to put anything in the pocket carrying the gun, except the gun.
Obviously if you carry a BUG in your weak side pocket, then you can put the reload in the strong side.
When I carried a 642 as a BUG while in uniform, I carried the gun in my left rear pocket (barrel facing out, grips pushed down into the pocket - actually wasn't that noticeable while sitting). I carried a speed strip in my left front shirt pocket.
The J frame revolvers make good BUG's. They are also good guns for those times when one perceives the threat to be minimum, such as a quick run to the store. But when I am carrying a J frame (642) as my only gun, I kind of feel the same as if I drive without wearing my seatbelt. Yes I lived through it, but I know better.
The problem with this logic of "5 is enough for a civilian CCW" is that one can not pre-plan or predict a critical incident. You can not predict, if forced to engage with deadly force, the distance, lighting conditions, number of suspects, or even if you might actually miss your target. Lets not even discuss the real world fact that some folks tend to take more than one or two well placed rounds to stop their aggressive actions. Yes, they may be dead, they just don't know it yet, and are still a threat to you.
Reloading? I used to compete in PPC competition with a revolver. Even using a duty belt and speed loaders, and with alot of practice, it's nothing like a semi auto. Try using your speed strips to reload, and have someone put you on the timer. Good luck with that.
Do I carry a lightweight snubby? I have, and still do on occasion. DO I carry one as my primary CCW gun? I really try not to...
Just purchased my first snubby this evening. I got a pretty decent deal on a 642. I plan on this being my "around the house" gun, or when I'm working in the yard. It won't be replacing my primary Glock 19, but it's nice to have more options now.
A first generation S&W 642 no dash most often on my ankle sometimes a belt strong side.
HeadHunter
04-15-10, 16:11
You quickly learn not to put anything in the pocket carrying the gun, except the gun.
Why is that?
ROCKET20_GINSU
04-15-10, 17:16
I would say don't put anything in the pocket that the gun is going into except the Holster and the gun. I prefer to use a holster for multiple reasons.
The reason I don't put anything else in the pocket w/ the gun is because
1) I don't want anything to interfere with the presentation of the pistol, the last thing I want to do is have my keys get in the way of my trigger or grip if I need to draw under stress.
2) Additionally, while unlikely w/ a J frame IMO, it is possible for an object to get into the trigger guard and discharge the weapon, easy risk to avoid and worth avoiding.
3) things like gum wrappers, chocolate and other debris can really jam up a pistol if it gets into the right place
YMMV,
GU
Beat Trash
04-16-10, 13:07
I would say don't put anything in the pocket that the gun is going into except the Holster and the gun. I prefer to use a holster for multiple reasons.
The reason I don't put anything else in the pocket w/ the gun is because
1) I don't want anything to interfere with the presentation of the pistol, the last thing I want to do is have my keys get in the way of my trigger or grip if I need to draw under stress.
2) Additionally, while unlikely w/ a J frame IMO, it is possible for an object to get into the trigger guard and discharge the weapon, easy risk to avoid and worth avoiding.
3) things like gum wrappers, chocolate and other debris can really jam up a pistol if it gets into the right place
YMMV,
GU
My "pocket guns" always use a holster. I've had good luck with the simple and cheap Uncle Mikes pocket holsters. The Fist Kydex pocket holster is also good.
When I stated in my earlier post that I do not put anything in my pocket but the gun, I meant to include the holster in that statement.
The "why" is explained very well by Rocket20_Ginsu.
I'm new to the J frame BUG world, and I guess it depends on where you're carrying your revolver, but wouldn't you want your speed strip on your strong side? Reason being from my understanding is you transition the revolver to your weak hand, usually the left, when reloading there by using the strong hand to do the reloading. Just a thought and someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
In a reload from the belt, sure. But:
1) There isn't enough room in the front pocket to carry the strip in addition to the holster so, the reload goes in the opposite pocket.
2) My strong hand maintains control of the gun when reloading; the actual reloading is accomplished with my weak hand.
Try using your speed strips to reload, and have someone put you on the timer.
There is definitely no "speed reload" using strips! But, it's better than a dump pouch, a pocket of loose rounds, or nothing. With practice, it's not as horrible as some folks make it out to be.
I carry a S&W M&P340CT loaded with 135gr .357mag Gold Dot Short barrel loads weighs aprox 13 oz. as my daily carry. no I don't feel it is inadequate in the least. recoil using the G.D.Short barrel loads is not all that bad. full house 158 gr loads is another story though, lol.
main thing is I actually carry it everywhere all the time mainly due to its small size & light weight. better than a gun twice it's size & weight that is only carried part time.
I carry a S&W M&P340CT loaded with 135gr .357mag Gold Dot Short barrel loads weighs aprox 13 oz. as my daily carry. no I don't feel it is inadequate in the least. recoil using the G.D.Short barrel loads is not all that bad. full house 158 gr loads is another story though, lol.
main thing is I actually carry it everywhere all the time mainly due to its small size & light weight. better than a gun twice it's size & weight that is only carried part time.
+1. That is my setup as well. I have speed loaders in the car and a speed strip on me. I carry my j frame 100% of the time. On duty bug and off duty primary.
I have a S&W 442 which is a great all around gun. During the warm months I can pocket carry in shorts and have two speed loaders in a cargo pocket. If I'm wearing jeans then it goes on my ankle and have two speed strips in a pocket. On duty, I carry in an ankle holster with one spare speed strip.
ROCKET20_GINSU
04-17-10, 16:06
My "pocket guns" always use a holster. I've had good luck with the simple and cheap Uncle Mikes pocket holsters. The Fist Kydex pocket holster is also good.
Thanks again for the suggestion to go w/ the Fist pocket holster for the G26, It's been working great for me and it's been my very discrete "pocket full of fury" EDC for the past several months.
stay safe,
GU
ROCKET20_GINSU
04-17-10, 16:14
In a reload from the belt, sure. But:
1) There isn't enough room in the front pocket to carry the strip in addition to the holster so, the reload goes in the opposite pocket.
2) My strong hand maintains control of the gun when reloading; the actual reloading is accomplished with my weak hand.
I've found that same problem. I am right handed and usually carry my 642 in my right pocket so I usually either carry the speed strip / speed loader in a jacket pocket on the right hand side, in my cargo pocket on right hand side, or in my back right wallet pocket (though sitting is considerably less comfortable). If I can't do that because I"m wearing jeans w/ only 4 pockets, I too will carry the reload on the left side, and when its time to reload, I'll do the following:
1) open the cylinder w/ my right thumb
2) pop the cylinder out w/ my left hand by reaching underneath the trigger guard w my fingters
3) hold cylinder in place w my right trigger finger by putting it thru the now empty frame and indexing one of the grooves on the cylinder, firing grip is largely maintained.
4) tap the extractor w my left hand while orienting the muzzle up
5) start reloading w/ the left hand while the right hand continues to keep the cylinder from rotating.
I prefer to reload w/ my right hand as I am way faster, but this has been an acceptable technique for me when necessary.
YMMV,
GU
For those who are looking at pocket holsters I picked up the DeSantis Nemesis today here in Phoenix. I took a quick picture of the new & improved version, the Super Fly, in comparison. I tried both holsters in my pocket repeatedly and came to a few conclusions that I though I'd share, I was wearing loose fitting dress pants at the time.
The Super Fly has a sticky, rubberized fabric that beats the Nemesis in terms of staying in the pocket, it's kind of tacky. It also has an additional velcro panel that can be added or removed for additional masking of the weapon. The SF was kind of cardboard stiff and the Nemesis was a lot more pliable and thinner and looks quite a bit smaller and less bulky from the outside of the pocket. I chose the Nemesis for those reasons and how I'll be utilizing the holster. It's hot as hell in Vegas and a thinner, more concealable and "comfortable" holster in our temps will work better in my shorts for the next 6 months. The SF is approximately twice the price of the Nemesis as well.
Crackberry picture. SF on right without the additional panel which makes it even thicker.
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2828/img00066by.jpg
I've also used a Mitch Rosen pocket holster, Pocket Softy for P3-AT, which I really liked but it cost 7 times as much and I really don't think there will be much difference in performance. More money in the pocket for the upcoming CT grips.
Hard to beat the Nemesis for a pocket holster. Works as designed, hides the gun well, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I carry my 642 in a Nemesis more than anything else.
Below is what I'm using now on the 442. The IWB is the Bare Asset from High Noon. It's actually comfortable. It's my deeper concealment setup for those times I don't want a bulge in my pocket. The only downside is the soft opening. It's not reinforced for one hand reholstering.
http://i39.tinypic.com/w70vnd.jpg
John_Wayne777
06-22-10, 13:25
There's a good article on improving the sights of a J frame here:
http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/articles/handguns/improve-your-snubs-sights/
SeriousStudent
06-22-10, 18:51
I have used the yellowish-orange Testors enamel paint on the front sight of my 641. It is a help.
I used some of that testors paint in the "neon green" color for the front sight of my LCR and it helped a ton.
Today however, the FEDEX guy showed up with my new XS Trit Big Dot for my LCR.
-Use supplied punch to remove old pin
-Lift OEM front sight off housing
-Clean with a little rubbing alchol for good measure
-Put new Big Dot on housing
-Insert pin (Acuatlly this part was a beeotch, but I got it w/o buggerin anthing up)
Its a HUGE improvement over the stock and works well with my CTC grips. My LCR is in a Mika round cut in my pocket from sun up till bed time.
JacksonDavion
06-23-10, 16:06
I had a S&W 642 that I carried in a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster. It was the only gun I honestly reliably carried, especially during warmer weather. I got rid of it in a stupid moment. I never should have parted with it, but that is a fixable mistake. I tell myself I want an M&P 9c or a Glock 26, but I'm afraid they're still big enough and cause enough of a wardrobe change that I'll start sliding again.
GLOCKMASTER
06-23-10, 19:26
Even though this thread has some age on it still contains some great information. I'm trying to decide which snubby to purchase.
442 in a Nemesis for an "always" gun, with an MTM 6-pack for spare ammo in the other side pocket. Retired in a small town of 3600 at the intersection of two interstates. Fairly tranquil but no guarantees. The 442 is convenient but if I do much more than go to the post office for my mail I like to pack the old 4" .357 revolver in addition. It's not state of the art but I have great confidence in it. Add in some age and treachery as needed.
If I lived in some of the areas previously mentioned I would dust off a 1911 and add a double helping of treachery.
Never say never.
John_Wayne777
06-23-10, 22:06
I've used Testor's model paint for a while myself...usually canary yellow:
http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/hlle-17.jpg
As I've gotten better at using the sights I've migrated back to keeping the front sight black as I seem to be more accurate with the black sight. Everybody should give it a try, though...it may help.
J frames are, in my opinion, one of the few cases where I think big dots can have some merit. The J frame sights are pretty pitiful. I wish that S&W would actually sit down with those of us who carry these things and ask us how to bring them into the 21st century. The new Bodyguard revolver's cylinder latch appears to be a step in the right direction...but it would be nice to have a meaningful sight upgrade.
Another little tip:
I'm often asked about grip with the J frame because there really isn't much to hold on to unless you install a larger grip. I saw Jerry Miculek using a unique grip on the J frame on the Shooting USA TV show and I decided since he was the best revolver shooter on the planet perhaps I should give his J frame grip a try:
http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK2/Jerry2-6.gif
I've found that it works phenomenally well in controlling the J frame, minimizing recoil, and stabilizing the light little revolver against the torque being applied to the trigger. It's also great for ensuring the laser is activated on a J frame equipped with LG-105's.
a slight digression here.....I have two airweights, one is with lock and the other is +p no lock.
Are there documented cases of the lock causing problems? Was going to sell the one with no lock, but it sounds like it may be worth holding on to.
Keep looking at a semi, but having trouble going from a .38 +P to a .380....and the 9mm's start getting a bit large
John_Wayne777
06-24-10, 07:39
a slight digression here.....I have two airweights, one is with lock and the other is +p no lock.
Are there documented cases of the lock causing problems?
Yes. There are documented instances of the lock engaging under recoil. At first it was thought to be confined to the scandium .44 magnum guns, but on the Smith&Wesson forum there are guys who have documented it in even steel framed guns. I've personally had a partial lock engagement on a .22 LR J frame revolver that required the key to resolve. That revolver is strictly a range gun so it didn't bother me...but on guns I carry for hunting or personal defense I'd ditch the lock before carrying the gun.
Michael Bane, who does a bunch of shooting related TV shows, saw the issue first hand:
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2007/08/s-revolver-safety-failure.html
It can get really bad when you get stuck with this:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/S%26W_329_lock_failure.jpg
Is it guaranteed to happen? No. It is, however, possible...especially on light guns shooting hot ammo...like most J frames people carry. It's not something I would personally leave to chance.
EDIT --
There's a good article on selecting grips for J frames here:
http://www.personaldefensenetwork.com/articles/handguns/finding-snub-stocks-that-fit-your-hand/
I saw Jerry Miculek using a unique grip on the J frame on the Shooting USA TV show and I decided since he was the best revolver shooter on the planet perhaps I should give his J frame grip a try:
http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK2/Jerry2-6.gif
The crossed-thumb grip was the standard two-handed grip for a revolver for a long time. It's especially useful for single-action revolvers and hammerless J-frames. Getting a high grip on the backstrap is also important when shooting J-frames.
I like my 642 and 105s, I am in Texas, t shirts and shorts are the norm for dress...
speaking of Jframe sights
I stumbled across this when checking for sights for my N frame 44
http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/NEW/images/J-frame%20tritium%20sights%20002.jpg
Details:
http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/NEW/SW_J_FrameSightNotes.htm
TEXAS_GLOCKER
06-24-10, 21:41
OK I need alitle convincing one way or the other. I had a 642 twice and sold them. The second one was the Talo model and I got tired of the grip, became anoying in my pocket. And know that Ive done more reasearch and its summer in Texas, I really miss having the j- frame for certain situations. So Ive decided to get another but one thing I hated about the 642 was the sites. And I have handled ones with CT and realy dont like the feal of them or the size. So Im leaning toward the M&P340. I like the sites,weight and the grip it comes with, this wil be a pocket carry gun but Ill be carrying +p's not the 357. My ? is am I being to picky and just go with the 442 or is the 340 worth another $200 for the enhanced features?
Thanks TG.
My ? is am I being to picky and just go with the 442 or is the 340 worth another $200 for the enhanced features?
I sold my 642 and bought an M&P 340 precisely because of the lighter weight and tritium front sight.
Even though this thread has some age on it still contains some great information. I'm trying to decide which snubby to purchase.
M&P 340. It's well worth the price premium, IMO.
TEXAS_GLOCKER
06-25-10, 21:19
I sold my 642 and bought an M&P 340 precisely because of the lighter weight and tritium front sight.
thanks...thats what I thought, just needed some reassurence!
:D
I'm struggling with the decision on which snubby to buy. While in NOVA on Tuesday I visited Virginia Arms and fondled all I could. It's down to the following three:
Rugar LCR - GotM4 had nothing but great things to about the little Rugar and the price with CT grips is outstanding.
S&W 442 - Not much needs to be said about this little bugger.
M&P340 - I really like the big dot front sight and the opinion of shooting either 357 or 38. Plus G&R has a good price on the 340.
I think I'd be happy with anyone of these. My primary use will be pocket carry, year round, but sometimes it might be the only gun I carry depending on clothing, where/when, weather, etc.
I'm struggling with the decision on which snubby to buy...
M&P340 - I really like the big dot front sight and the opinion of shooting either 357 or 38. Plus G&R has a good price on the 340.
I think I'd be happy with anyone of these. My primary use will be pocket carry, year round, but sometimes it might be the only gun I carry depending on clothing, where/when, weather, etc.
Stop the foreplay and grab the M&P 340. :p You will not, however, want to shoot .357's in it. It's a right handful with .38 +P's; .357's are brutal in such a light gun.
No Key 642 with LG-405 laser grips, orange paint on front ramp.
As to the original question, my reply would be who doesn't carry a LW snub. I use a old 642 with LG-405 grips. It is one of the most useful pistols out there. You never have an excuse not to be armed.
I'm struggling with the decision on which snubby to buy. While in NOVA on Tuesday I visited Virginia Arms and fondled all I could. It's down to the following three:
Rugar LCR - GotM4 had nothing but great things to about the little Rugar and the price with CT grips is outstanding.
S&W 442 - Not much needs to be said about this little bugger.
M&P340 - I really like the big dot front sight and the opinion of shooting either 357 or 38. Plus G&R has a good price on the 340.
I think I'd be happy with anyone of these. My primary use will be pocket carry, year round, but sometimes it might be the only gun I carry depending on clothing, where/when, weather, etc.
LOVE my LCR w/ CTC grips! Just removed the OEM front sight and replaced it with an XS trit big dot. Awsome :D
I'm struggling with the decision on which snubby to buy. While in NOVA on Tuesday I visited Virginia Arms and fondled all I could. It's down to the following three:
Rugar LCR - GotM4 had nothing but great things to about the little Rugar and the price with CT grips is outstanding.
S&W 442 - Not much needs to be said about this little bugger.
M&P340 - I really like the big dot front sight and the opinion of shooting either 357 or 38. Plus G&R has a good price on the 340.
I think I'd be happy with anyone of these. My primary use will be pocket carry, year round, but sometimes it might be the only gun I carry depending on clothing, where/when, weather, etc.
The Ruger LCR is doing well and seems to be GTG. It is, however, ever so slightly bigger than its counterparts. You may want to contemplate the amount of pocket width, pant leg flair, and like dims to see if will be an issue for you. A little change in dim of a pocket piece can make a difference.
I only use 38 SPL, so the 340 offers no advantage for me.
As you note, nothing more to say about the 642/442.
Stop the foreplay and grab the M&P 340. :p You will not, however, want to shoot .357's in it. It's a right handful with .38 +P's; .357's are brutal in such a light gun.
GotM4 said the same thing.
If the only reason why I'm going with the 340 is the front sight I think I'd be better off going with the LCR and having the front (pinned) sight replaced.
If the only reason why I'm going with the 340 is the front sight I think I'd be better off going with the LCR and having the front (pinned) sight replaced.
I don't know much about the LCR (not a Ruger fan...) but, have seen that there's a model that comes with an XS tritium sight: http://ruger.com/products/lcr/specSheets/5403.html
I carry a 442 on quick trips when I don't feel like putting on a semi auto. I used to carry in a bellyband when I went running but I haven't since I bought a treadmill.
mnagant762
07-02-10, 04:14
Stop the foreplay and grab the M&P 340. :p You will not, however, want to shoot .357's in it. It's a right handful with .38 +P's; .357's are brutal in such a light gun.
Yes they are I had the M&P 360 and carried it quite often in a Galco Speed Scabbard but that little bastard would make your hand go numb after about 15 rounds of .357. IIRC it weighed around 14oz. loaded with 124gr. GoldDot .357. The guy told me when I bought it the bigger your hands are the more it would punish you, I should have listened. The XS front sight was nice though, very fast to pick up.
During the Summer I generally carry a brace of 642s (coastal New England gives you heat, plus humidity, and salt air).
My 642s generally get a spring change: hammer spring from 8.5 to 8 lbs.; trigger return/rebound from 18 to 12 lbs. Then test extensively.
But, despite this, my new favorite is a 1970s era Model 38 that I found in NRA excellent condition (looked unfired) -- pinned bbl and fixed hammer-mounted FP. I left on the traditional grips, but added a Tyler T. Just make sure you stay on top of the rust.
In case anyone is interested, I have found that spring changes on shrouded hammer models does not tend to be a success and may lead to dented primers unless you use Federal ammo.
TEXAS_GLOCKER
07-02-10, 07:26
I don't know much about the LCR (not a Ruger fan...) but, have seen that there's a model that comes with an XS tritium sight: http://ruger.com/products/lcr/specSheets/5403.html
my reasoning for the 340 is not just the sights , which is the most important to me but the size and weight compared to the ruger. I know functon before looks, sw is reliable and so is ruger but DAMN that LCR is an UGLY summbitch!..:D I like a little sex apeal with my guns....hell dont we all, the 340 not only fits the bill but its nice looking too.
Having had both a 642 and LCR for about 3 months to evaluate both, the only dimension I saw that was much different than the 442/642 was the trigger guard on the LCR is a tad bigger and extends down a bit more. Other than that, they didnt ride any differently in the pocket for me. Other have noted that the cylinder dimension is slightly thinner on the LCR than the j-frames. I have not taken the time to actually measure it, but it didnt seem significant to matter. Lets just say that I have a athletic build and typically finding pants is a complete beeotch that give me enough room in the thigh w/o looking like gang banger pants. While you would notice "something" is in my pockets, you would never know its a snubby.
Drew, what's your opinion of them when you compare the two?
I'm seriously leaning towards the 442 now because a) I won't shoot 357, b) I like to support S&W and c) when I want to buy a 340 I can put pink grips on the 442 and "give" it to the wife :D
DAMN IT! I just had a HUGE response typed up and somehow deleted it!!!
Moving on...
I had a no lock 642 and LCR to eval for a few months. Both stock sights and CTC grips. I shot the same type and number of rounds through both. Up till this point, I had no experience with revos, I have been shooting Glocks in 9mm forever.
LEt me just say to those who say the LCR is ugly, I couldnt care less. It aint a beauty contest and it lives in a Mika round cut in my sweaty pocket 24/7.
Prior to starting this test, I actually thought I would come away with the j-frame. I really want to own a Smith revo still due to their amazing heritage. I wish like hell they would drop those damn locks. Eventhough the LCR has a lock, its under the gip and wont get caked up with crap.
In my opinion, the dimensions are just about the same. Not enough difference one way or another on either to make a difference.
I shot the 642 first with 135 +p's slow fire and while it was brisk, it was manageable and groups were ok at 15'. Then went with the 642 to a rapid 5 round "dump" a few feet closer and the group opened considerably. One handed strong and weak was not so good. Honestly, this is what I was expecting so I went on to do the same thing with the LCR.
My first slow fire group was about 1/2 the size as the 642 and the rapid 5 shot "self defense scenario" type of dump was amazing. Literaly less than 1/2 the group size and AMAZINGLY faster both trigger manipulation and recovery back on target. I really think this has to do with the shape of the grip and the polymer flexing a bit under recoil. It was effortless to shoot effectivly. I shot an offhand, 5 shot group at 21' and I sh!t you not, I have all 5 shots touching and it was so easy to produce.
While all this went on for several months at the end, the pure ease of shootability sold me on the LCR. Thats what is all about anyway, being able to run the gun as necessary. 2 handed, weak/strong hand, slow, fast, near, and far I consistently shot the LCR WAY better than the J frame.
Just installed an XS big dot and its a great roving gun/NPE gun. 2 speed strips of DPX with 5 speer GD SB 135 +p's in the cylinder.
I gave the 642 back to my Dad, he shot my LCR and looked at me with a WTF face...:eek: He now owns an LCR but has not gotten rid of his 642 as he is a staunch S&W guy, its just been relegated to the safe...
These are my opinions and how I percived the guns in my hands. I dont want anyone to think I am raggin on Smith as I am not. They were night and day for me, and I am thinkgin about getting a second one already!
Hope some of this helps...
Well piss...now I'm as confused as ever! Back on the fence!
ETA: you're comments mirror GotM4's and since I pretty much take everything he says to the bank I guess the LCR is easier to shoot.
Anyway you can get both and run them to see how they work for you? Who knows, you may find the exact opposite works for you. I dont have really big hands, I wear a medium glove. Not sure if that matters, but the shape of the LCR really works with my hands.
Good luck with your search!
Anyway you can get both and run them to see how they work for you? Who knows, you may find the exact opposite works for you. I dont have really big hands, I wear a medium glove. Not sure if that matters, but the shape of the LCR really works with my hands.
Good luck with your search!
Buying both might not be a bad idea but I'd like to try and nail this one down. I think, based on what you've said and comparing that to what GotM4 said it sounds like the LCR is more shootable.
And he has one in stock with CT grips and I'm sure he would install a big dot front sight if I asked nicely (and paid). :D
GLOCKMASTER
07-02-10, 19:38
I do now.:D
Wednesday I purchased a new M&P 340 .357 mag. for a new off duty weapon to supplement my primary off duty a G19. Yesterday I shot 200 rounds through it and qualified to carry it. My carry load will be the SPEER 135 gr. Short Barrel .357 mag GDHP. I will be carrying it in a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster until my Kramer pocket holster is delivered. So far I really like it and wished I would have purcahsed a pocket revolver a long time ago. Very soon it will find it's way to Superior Firearms for some needed work.
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0514.jpg
http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n355/STR8SHTER/DSC_0510.jpg
SeriousStudent
07-02-10, 19:51
Schweet! How does it group? I have talked to two people that were able to wring out some amazingly tight groups from a 340.
Are you thinking of removing the lock, and dropping in a plug for the hole in the sideplate?
And when do the CT grips arrive? :D
GLOCKMASTER
07-02-10, 20:03
Schweet! How does it group? I have talked to two people that were able to wring out some amazingly tight groups from a 340.
Are you thinking of removing the lock, and dropping in a plug for the hole in the sideplate?
And when do the CT grips arrive? :D
As far as grouping I really do not want to try head shots with it at 25 yards however, I'm more than satisfied with it's 25 yard accuracy and wouldn't hesitate with it at that distance. I'm sure it will be better after the trip to Superior. Yes I'm going to have the lock removed and plugged.
As to when the CT grips will arrive, I'm sure it will be very soon.;)
Guess I'm a bit of an oddball. For rare occasions when I can't conceal the M&P40, I carry a .44 Bulldog. This is usually located in the crossdraw position on my belt under a loose shirt. Why crossdraw? Because if carried strong side, it would block access to the Kershaw folder in my right pocket. It ain't much, but it's sharp and to coin a phrase, better than fingernails.
I've had to do some carving on the Bulldog's left side grip to facilitate use of speedloaders and it's closer to a K-frame in size, but the .44 throws a lot bigger chunk of lead than a .38 at similar velocity.
For those who carry the 340 stoked with .357s, any of you try shooting that combination at night or without hearing protection? Bet you don't like it much...
Your high end duty quality modern ammo is flash suppressed, so that's not a big deal.
I've fired an M4 off at work and never heard it, even though 14.5" guns are rather loud, so noise wouldn't be a worry for me.
GLOCKMASTER
07-03-10, 06:22
For those who carry the 340 stoked with .357s, any of you try shooting that combination at night or without hearing protection? Bet you don't like it much...
I shoot at night however unless you have no choice, shooting a weapon without hearing protection is just plain stupid. You're only issued one set of ears.
Robb Jensen
07-03-10, 07:55
My Ruger LCR w/CTC laser is my go everywhere shorts warm weather gun. Recoil is very nice compared to a 442/642 and at 7yds I can get 1/2 fist size groups as fast as I can pull the trigger. I carry Speer Gold Dot short barrel 135gr+P in mine. All though I typically hate Big Dots a front one on the gun makes good sense.
http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/NEW/images/J-frame%20tritium%20sights%20002.jpg
Completely off-topic, but has anyone else noticed that the front sight and the two lines beside the front sight spell out "lol" during a good sight picture? For some reason, I can picture a BG with hands up and someone taking a photo from behind the revolver.
Sorry for the interruption. Continue...
Take two: I'm leaning towards the LCR with CT grips. As it's been noted it seems to be more controlable but also I can replace the front sight with an XS Big Dot.
NavyDavy55
07-03-10, 12:23
I conceal carry a S&W 442 in the summer. I don't feel undergunned and it's easy to carry.
Guess I'm a bit of an oddball. For rare occasions when I can't conceal the M&P40, I carry a .44 Bulldog.
...
I've had to do some carving on the Bulldog's left side grip to facilitate use of speedloaders and it's closer to a K-frame in size, but the .44 throws a lot bigger chunk of lead than a .38 at similar velocity.
Not odd at all. The only two reasons I don't carry a .44 Spl is that nobody makes one in a J-frame size and ammo choices are few. If S&W came out with a J-frame sized .44 Spl and Speer designed a short-barrel load for it, I'd get rid of my .38 Spl and buy one in a flash.
My Ruger LCR w/CTC laser is my go everywhere shorts warm weather gun. Recoil is very nice compared to a 442/642 and at 7yds I can get 1/2 fist size groups as fast as I can pull the trigger. I carry Speer Gold Dot short barrel 135gr+P in mine.
Can you attribute the felt recoil difference to anything specific?
GLOCKMASTER
07-03-10, 17:30
Take two: I'm leaning towards the LCR with CT grips. As it's been noted it seems to be more controlable but also I can replace the front sight with an XS Big Dot.
I don't think you can really go wrong with either pistol. I also was torn between the two and it was basically just a flip of a coin for me.
All though I typically hate Big Dots a front one on the gun makes good sense.
I'm with you on that one Robb. I really like it on my M&P 340.
I shoot at night however unless you have no choice, shooting a weapon without hearing protection is just plain stupid. You're only issued one set of ears.
That was kind of my point - .357Mag is a pretty high pressure round (for a handgun) and muzzle blast out of a snubbie can be disconcerting with a full power load. We're talking personal defense - you don't go walking around with hearing protection on, so most would be better off sticking with a .38SPL load in a snubbie.
IF you have short barrel loads, flash might not be a problem.
Then there is the issue of follow-up shots, the difference in recoil between the .38SPL and .357Mag out of a light snubbie is significant. Unless you practice a lot, fast, accurate repeat shots can be problematic. And that's the rub - maybe not true for you, but for many, shooting .357s out of a snubbie is unpleasant, practice is severely limited, and missed targets result. Not a good thing in a self-defense situation.
Another Ruger LCR here. Its mostly carried in a pocket or on my ankle as backup to whatever my primary is that day. I've owned several snubbies over the years, S&W mostly. To be completely honest, we received these to T&E so I was like 'whatever, free gun to shoot and not clean', etc. When they contacted us about the T&E period being over, they got checks for the pistols. All of us that had one to try kept them. Im right at 600 rounds thru mine. It fits the niche I needed it for.
My LCR with CT grips will be here Thursday!
My LCR with CT grips will be here Thursday!
Congrats! Hope you like it as much as I like mine...
Please keep us updated on your impressions of that setup as you wring it out.
Now you just need to get that Big Dot on order from XS...;)
-Drew
Robb Jensen
07-06-10, 21:46
My LCR with CT grips will be here Thursday!
Cool Bro you won't be disappointed. I really like mine.
I had my 442 out yesterday and did really well at 6 yards with it. First cylinder full.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v454/bgoode/7e6cee33.jpg
LuckyGunner.com
07-07-10, 14:56
bgoode - I had my 442 out yesterday and did really well at 6 yards with it. First cylinder full.
Nice shooting.
I have carried a S&W 642 as my summer carry for a couple years now. I've never had to use it thankfully, but I've never had an issue with the gun while training. I'm probably going switch to a 327 since I have the moon clips in abundance already, and my only detraction from the gun is the 5 shots. Although if I'm in an extended firefight my best bet is going to be to get out of dodge.
Steven@LG
I guess I'm like a lot of us guy's, I have a fairly large & varied assortment of carry guns available to me, but my trusty old S&W Model 642 "Lady Smith" is never far away from me when outside of the house. I had a 5 second hesitation period upon my initial purchase of the "LadySmith", due I guess to the name factor. ( What guy carries a LadySmith ? ) But, after a quick assessment of all it's "extra" features, I snapped it right up. In addition to it being "factory" Magna-Ported, it had a beautiful action, the new type +P rated J frame, & what appeared to be a sort of "carry melt" treatment. The dealer had 2 NIB examples on his shelf, & I now wish I'd grabbed both of them. I've always have a soft spot in my heart for alloy framed, short barrel .38 Spl. revolvers. Over the years my weapons inventory usually include a few assorted Colt's & S&W's. My current favorites being my S&W 642/LS & a parkerized Colt Agent. Even though my present ( warm weather ) carry gun is a Kahr PM9 loaded w/ Speer 124+P Gold Dot's, I still tend to have the 642 on my ankle, just in case. ( Usually loaded w/ Speer's 135+P Gold Dot )
Some day when I have some extra cash ( yea, right ) I'm going to pick up a factory Colt 3" bbl from GPC / Numrich, & ship my Agent or Cobra off to Cylinder & Slide Inc. to have it installed, along with a Colt Hammer Shroud. Now to me, "that's" a really nice IWB or ankle piece. OK, that's enough of "my 2 cents".
Regards, dpast32
Cool Bro you won't be disappointed. I really like mine.
If you say they're good I know I won't be disappointed. With my son's birthday and family in town I haven't made it over to the shop to pick mine up. Hopefully tomorrow but probably on Monday once everyone is gone and life is back to normal.
ETA: I finally got to pick up my LCR today and so far I'm impressed. I will try and hit the range tomorrow to run some rounds through it.
Belmont31R
07-17-10, 19:32
Just got a SW MP 340 today. Paid 630 for it + tax.
I wanted something to fit into a pocket or that would fit into my wife's purse without weighing a ton.
Still needs lots of ammo, and a pocket holster for it but it fits inside a jeans pocket nicely which is why I got it. Its hard to fit something like a USP45C (my normal CCW) on your person wearing pants, and tucked in button up shirt or polo.
This is actually my first revolver but Ive shot quite a few of them before. My wife likes it enough I may end up getting a 2nd one in the future.
Going to shoot it a bunch tomorrow....:D
My wife love's her 340PD, you made a good purchase.
I carried one for sixteen or seventeen years. First a 642 airweight in .38 then a 340PD scandium in .357. I still miss how small and light is was in the pocket. I carried two speed strips in my left pocket. The gun in a pocket bolster in my right pocket and a third speed strip on a Krammer belt pouch. I still carry it once in a while but my Glock 27 has replaced the 340PD as my regular carry gun and on duty back up gun. I switched because I wanted the ability to carry more rounds in the gun and o be ae to use my duty magazines.
The 340PD still comes out a few times a year when the Glock is just too big.
Belmont31R
07-18-10, 20:25
Shot around 100rds through the 340 today. 38SPC was controllable but the dang trigger is so heavy I was hitting all the place. At 10 yards with my auto's I can keep a pretty tight group but not even close with this. I seriously think the trigger has to be over 10lbs.
Shot 5 rounds of 357 and whooooooweee....that was worse than the fullsize 500SW I shot. :D:eek:
I've carried an airweight J frame on and off for more than 30 years, it being the second handgun I ever bought. Back in the days when they gave me all the .38 reloads I could shoot for free, I shot it to the point of where it needed to be tightened up a couple of times, and today, it's just a stashed around the house gun. I won a lot of beer bets with that gun, when guys I worked with didn't believe what it could do at 100 yards. I'd how many out of five I could put in the face of a silhouette target at that range, but I don't want to be called a liar....;)
Ahhhhh...to have the time and energy to shoot that much again, and the eyesight to see where I was shooting as well as I could then....
Not odd at all. The only two reasons I don't carry a .44 Spl is that nobody makes one in a J-frame size and ammo choices are few. If S&W came out with a J-frame sized .44 Spl and Speer designed a short-barrel load for it, I'd get rid of my .38 Spl and buy one in a flash.
Well, actually they do...... the Charter Arms is basically a J size frame. I owned one for a number of years, and probably put a couple of thousand rounds through it.
Lousy action, and the quality was clearly not a Smith, but I have to say I don't think I ever had a problem with mine. Knowing what I do now, I probably wouldn't carry one today, but I did feel pretty good carrying it in those days.
I usually carry it in my poctet. I do have an ankle holster which i like for long car rides. In my pocket the seatbelt is in the way and a seated draw is pretty much a no go. I never used a belt or iwb holster for it. I looked at a few iwb holsters and almost bought the Workman it concealed iwb and under your shirt. Pretty cool for deep cover.
S&W 642 w/CTC grips in either a Mika pocket holster or Renegade ankle holster.
TEXAS_GLOCKER
07-20-10, 19:34
Well...I'll be joining the ranks of the snubbie once again! For good this time. It'll be a nice complement to my Glocks as a backup, and a great summer carry gun. I got a M&P 340 on order....$619+tax...should be in here bout two weeks, wooohoo! :dance3:
Ruger LCR with CT grips and an XS tritium Big Dot front sight.
Not sure how in all my years of CCW I ever got along without it! Always in my pocket-just add a Glock 9mm when leaving the house...
-Drew
Well, actually they do...... the Charter Arms is basically a J size frame.
The Charter Arms is more comparable to a K-frame.
The Charter Arms is more comparable to a K-frame.
Ahhhh.... negatory.....
They're close enough in size to a J frame to use the same holster.
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