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austinN4
03-22-10, 12:21
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62L3B820100322?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reuters%2FtopNews+%28News+%2F+US+%2F+Top+News%29

States launch lawsuits against healthcare plan
12:23pm EDT

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Less than 24 hours after the House of Representatives gave final approval to a sweeping overhaul of healthcare, attorneys general from several states on Monday said they will sue to block the plan on constitutional grounds.

Republican attorneys general in 11 states warned that lawsuits will be filed to stop the federal government overstepping its constitutional powers and usurping states' sovereignty.

States are concerned the burden of providing healthcare will fall on them without enough federal support.

Ten of the attorneys general plan to band together in a collective lawsuit on behalf of Alabama, Florida, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.

"To protect all Texans' constitutional rights, preserve the constitutional framework intended by our nation's founders, and defend our state from further infringement by the federal government, the State of Texas and other states will legally challenge the federal health care legislation," said Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, in a statement.

The Republican attorney generals say the reforms infringe on state powers under the Constitution's Bill of Rights.

Virginia Attorney General Kenneth Cuccinelli, who plans to file a lawsuit in federal court in Richmond, Virginia, said Congress lacks authority under its constitutional power to regulate interstate commerce to force people to buy insurance. The bill also conflicts with a state law that says Virginians cannot be required to buy insurance, he added.

"If a person decides not to buy health insurance, that person by definition is not engaging in commerce," Cuccinelli said in recorded comments. "If you are not engaging in commerce, how can the federal government regulate you?"

In addition to the pending lawsuits, bills and resolutions have been introduced in at least 36 state legislatures seeking to limit or oppose various aspects of the reform plan through laws or state constitutional amendments, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.

So far, only two states, Idaho and Virginia, have enacted laws, while an Arizona constitutional amendment is seeking voter approval on the November ballot. But the actual enactment of the bill by President Barack Obama could spur more movement on the measures by state lawmakers.

As is the case on the Congressional level, partisan politics is in play on the state level, where no anti-health care reform legislation has emerged in Democrat-dominated states like Illinois and New York, according to the NCSL.

Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum, a Republican candidate running for governor, said the mandate would cost Florida at least $1.6 billion in Medicaid alone.

All states would receive extra funding to cover Medicaid costs that are expected to rise under the reform, including 100 percent federal coverage for new enrollees under the plan through 2016.

Medicaid is the healthcare program for the poor jointly administered by the states and federal government.

(Reporting by Karen Pierog, additional reporting by Michael Connor in Miami, Jonathan Stempel in New York, Joan Gralla in New York, Lisa Lambert in Washington and Michael Peltier in Tallahassee; Editing by Andrew Hay)

ForTehNguyen
03-22-10, 12:26
some of the comments were /facepalm in that article. Not a clue of what 10A means

John_Wayne777
03-22-10, 12:29
The insurance mandate is actually a pretty good avenue for challenge. Does the federal government have the power to FORCE everyone to participate in a particular type of commerce? (In this instance, buying insurance)

It will be interesting to see how the courts handle it. Up to this point inter-state commerce has basically been seen as a blank check for Congressional authority. The court in general hasn't been serious about curbing congressional authority since the court packing fiasco perpetrated by FDR. One wonders if we'll see a repeat of that sordid bit of history play out again in our day.

ForTehNguyen
03-22-10, 13:39
if they can force us to buy insurance, they can force us to buy anything

chadbag
03-22-10, 13:51
The insurance mandate is actually a pretty good avenue for challenge. Does the federal government have the power to FORCE everyone to participate in a particular type of commerce? (In this instance, buying insurance)

It will be interesting to see how the courts handle it. Up to this point inter-state commerce has basically been seen as a blank check for Congressional authority. The court in general hasn't been serious about curbing congressional authority since the court packing fiasco perpetrated by FDR. One wonders if we'll see a repeat of that sordid bit of history play out again in our day.

One comment I saw, I think from a Republican politician, was that the interstate commerce clause cannot force this mandate since if I am not buying insurance then there is no commerce to regulate. We'll see how that argument stands up in court though.

austinN4
03-22-10, 14:05
One comment I saw, I think from a Republican politician, was that the interstate commerce clause cannot force this mandate since if I am not buying insurance then there is no commerce to regulate. We'll see how that argument stands up in court though.
Was in OP and quoted Virginia Attorney General Kenneth Cuccinelli.

Lee Indy
03-22-10, 14:18
god i hope this works. ive never understood how the federal gets away with so much. the whole gov needs an overhaul. i think congress should be limited to 2 terms.

chadbag
03-22-10, 14:20
i think congress should be limited to 2 terms.

While I agree with this, there are some who make the argument that term limits would just move the power into the bureaucracy... Which would probably be even worse.

Lee Indy
03-22-10, 14:38
have an age limit. once your a senior citizen your out.

rifleman2000
03-22-10, 14:42
have an age limit. once your a senior citizen your out.

Uhm, no. Have a government limit. As in government out.

Lee Indy
03-22-10, 14:44
i like that too. lets go back to the constitution.

dmanflynn
03-22-10, 21:04
One comment I saw, I think from a Republican politician, was that the interstate commerce clause cannot force this mandate since if I am not buying insurance then there is no commerce to regulate. We'll see how that argument stands up in court though.

Isnt that the same idea behind the FFA's that have been passed and pending in some states? That if the parts/guns dont go across state borders they dont ingage in interstate commerce? Or am I on the wrong track. It'd be nice if the debate of state soverignty was won on the FFA and the healthcare side. (in favor of the states of course)

dmanflynn
03-22-10, 21:06
i like that too. lets go back to the constitution.

No joke, at the rate its going, it wont be long before they just take the constitution off display and quietly burn it.:eek: Even though they've legally done it time and time again:mad:

pilotguyo540
03-22-10, 21:40
This just arrived in my inbox. I had to share



Just a little update from DC on the progress of our national healthcare plan. I believe that Maxine says it all.





cid:1.3320790552@web36901.mail.mud.yahoo.com
Now, let me get this straight......we're trying to pass a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president that also is exempt from it and hasn't read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke.

What the hell could possibly go wrong?

m4fun
03-22-10, 22:54
Dude - I dont know who Maxine is, but that is awesome. I am so disgusted on this - I am proud to be in a state challenging this. The interstate commerce act has to be the most abused law out there for federal control(think building guns in your own state for your own purpose, class I or III...)

Lee Indy
03-23-10, 11:20
13 states now?

Belmont31R
03-23-10, 11:27
Dude - I dont know who Maxine is, but that is awesome. I am so disgusted on this - I am proud to be in a state challenging this. The interstate commerce act has to be the most abused law out there for federal control(think building guns in your own state for your own purpose, class I or III...)






FDR's court packing cemented federal power for the rest of time, and killed any notion of state's rights.



Obama is aspiring to be just like FDR. Listen to his speeches, and how many times he mentions FDR when talking about previous presidents. FDR was a died in and wool socialist. Worse than Obama actually. Look at the "economic bill of rights", and its a list the dems have been trying to execute since then. Its where they get the notion a job, a house, health care, etc are all "rights" just like privacy, fair trial, gun ownership, and other rights in the real Bill of Rights.


As I've said in a few times in other threads Obama is hell bent on making a name for himself so he is remembered along the same likes as Lincoln, FDR, etc etc. He wants to be here when he "fundamentally transforms" the country, and we pivot from quasi capitalism to socialism.

Lee Indy
03-23-10, 11:52
canidate for governor for California just said on msnbc that he thinks this a great idea but he hasnt read it. and that all of Europe does it so why shouldnt we.


are all californians that retarded on national tv

Lee Indy
03-23-10, 11:59
cant watch this idiot anymore

Belmont31R
03-23-10, 12:00
canidate for governor for California just said on msnbc that he thinks this a great idea but he hasnt read it. and that all of Europe does it so why shouldnt we.


are all californians that retarded on national tv






Of course they never mention Europe has a lower GDP than us, have not had to spend near as much on defense as us because we play the world police/emt/money givers, 10% unemployment is somewhat normal there, their subjects pay 8-10 dollars a gallon for gas, high income taxes, etc, and to top it off their medical survival rates for common diseases is lower than here. We have more medical advancements in surgical procedures, medical equipment, and drugs. Europe has long benefited from the USA in many areas. We basically provided for their defense during the entire Cold War.

Nathan_Bell
03-23-10, 12:05
have an age limit. once your a senior citizen your out.

Nah, make it so you cannot be one until you are a seasoned citizen. This way they have to have had some sort of a career for the first 6 decades, and I do not see any new 68 yo congresscritter holding the seat for 40 years ;)

Lee Indy
03-23-10, 12:24
yeah the conveniently forgot to mention that.

Palmguy
03-23-10, 14:10
Isnt that the same idea behind the FFA's that have been passed and pending in some states? That if the parts/guns dont go across state borders they dont ingage in interstate commerce? Or am I on the wrong track. It'd be nice if the debate of state soverignty was won on the FFA and the healthcare side. (in favor of the states of course)

Not that I agree with it, but the courts have said that even that kind of "commerce" is able to be "regulated" by the Feds if it can have any kind of impact on interstate commerce (i.e. purely intrastate commerce detracts from other interstate commerce = Feds can dick around with the intrastate commerce).

Wild power grabbing if you ask me.

Lee Indy
03-23-10, 14:48
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs406.snc3/24612_378532062907_728437907_3616025_4212053_n.jpg

No.6
03-23-10, 14:59
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs406.snc3/24612_378532062907_728437907_3616025_4212053_n.jpg


LOL! But what I want to know is why are they even looking at his "package"? Shouldn't they at least be trying to throw cold water on it? Or do they secretly wish they had the "balls" to go along with the "package"?

FromMyColdDeadHand
03-23-10, 17:28
While I agree with this, there are some who make the argument that term limits would just move the power into the bureaucracy... Which would probably be even worse.

The reps would then just be masks for their staffs. The real issue is that we send out money to them to bribe each other with. Starve the beast and it will loose its teeth.


Of course they never mention Europe has a lower GDP than us, have not had to spend near as much on defense as us because we play the world police/emt/money givers, ....

Some have talked that Obama wants to use these deficits to make greater cuts in the military. Kind of a reverse starve-the-beast.

Nathan_Bell
03-23-10, 18:30
The reps would then just be masks for their staffs. The real issue is that we send out money to them to bribe each other with. Starve the beast and it will loose its teeth.



Some have talked that Obama wants to use these deficits to make greater cuts in the military. Kind of a reverse starve-the-beast.


Starve the beast is what we have been trying for two decades. It isn't working as no one has the balls to say. "Enough is enough!" and stop the funding. Hell look at the HC CF, we cannot afford it, but they still ran it trhough.

CarlosDJackal
03-23-10, 21:17
And so the increased welfare begins: Health reform law requires FEHBP to cover children up to age 26 (http://www.federaltimes.com/article/20100323/BENEFITS04/3230305/1001)

Whiskey-Tango-Oscar, over? :rolleyes: