Air travel w/ a handgun.... [Archive]

RWK

03-24-10, 08:49

I am a full-time LEO so the applicable CCW laws in NV are not a concern for me, but if you guys have info that you feel may benefit civilian air travelers on this subject, feel free to post it here in this thread as well.

*What type/brand of lock-box is most secure for packing a handgun in your luggage?

*What is the best way to secure your ammo in your luggage?

I use Hardigg Storm Cases (http://www.stormcase.com/) and Master Lock padlocks. The locks on your gun case do not need to be "TSA approved" and I never use the cheesy "TSA approved" travel padlocks.

I use MTM hard plastic ammo boxes (http://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/handgun/ammo-boxes-handgun-original.html) to transport ammo. Factory packaging has a tendency to get crushed, which can result in ammo being scattered throughout your bag.

I lock the gun(s) and magazines in the Storm Case(s). The ammo goes in the MTM boxes, which go in the checked bag along with the Storm Case(s). I use heavy duty Zip-Lock bags to keep other accessories organized - holsters, pouches, etc.

I recommend using hardsided luggage when transporting handguns. I like Samsonite, personally. The hardsided luggage adds another layer of security and protection for your gear.

Double check with your air carrier and then figure in an extra hour of time with the TSA gun checking morons.

I'd say that's a bit extreme just for declaring a handgun in ones checked baggage. I've never been held up for more than about 10 minutes while the TSA x-rayed my luggage. If you're traveling in a group and have a lot of gear, add more time but, as an individual traveler, I say nah.

If there's a separate x-ray station (which there are at some airports) and there's a pile of baggage there, I simply tell one of the TSA screeners that I have a firearm in the bag and ask if they'd mind going ahead and x-ray it while I'm standing there so that I can go on to my departure gate. To date, they've always taken my bag to the front of the line and run it through while I wait. Here's the trick: be polite and smile.

I packed the ammo separately in checked luggage. Pretty sure they'll have a cow if they look in your carry on and there's live ammo in it.

It's a safe bet to say that the TSA wonks at the checkpoint would be frowny-faced over that. They get worked up over hand lotion and toothpaste -- can you imagine it if they found a box of ammo?

The factory ammo box (flimsy as it is) may be required for transport of ammo despite what any other TSA/airline guidance may say.

I've never had an issue with using MTM ammo boxes (see above).

Flying with a firearm can be a HUGE PITA.

I'm sure that's not very encouraging to Nick...

Flying commercial with a firearm in checked baggage is not that big a deal. It's certainly no more of a chore than dealing with the rest of the asshattery that goes along with air travel in the U.S. nowadays. Keeping up with what are the prohibited items du jour in your carry-on and what does/does not go on the conveyor belt at the x-ray is more of a headache than declaring a firearm in a checked bag. Know the rules, have your gear properly stored, and things will go just fine.

A few tips:

Some ticket/counter agents may, others may not, ask you to show that the firearms(s) is/are unloaded. A press check/open cylinder where they can see into the chamber will suffice. If they say something like "I need to check to be sure it's unloaded", the interpretation is the same. I never let a ticket/counter agent handle my firearms.

There is an ongoing debate as to whether the firearms declaration tag goes in the gun case or if it goes in the checked bag, but outside the gun case. I usually place it in the checked bag, on top of my clothes, etc. where it can be seen as soon as someone opens the suitcase. However, if an enthusiastic ticket/counter agent says that it must go inside the gun case, I ask "are you sure?". If they say they are sure, I don't bother arguing with them. Just take the extra 15 seconds to put the tag inside the gun case. If your gun case is a separate piece of checked baggage, then the tag obviously has to go inside the case.

Double check that your gun case and luggage are locked before letting the ticket/counter agent take it. It can be easy to forget this in the shuffle at the counter, especially if you're in a hurry or prone to stress out at the airport.

Moose-Knuckle

03-24-10, 09:33

This is a wealth of knowledge gent's, good thread!

skyugo

03-24-10, 10:07

does ammo need to be in a hard sided lockable box? or just the guns? :confused:

is it advisable to field strip the weapon to make it easier to show unloaded condition?

infidelprodigy

03-24-10, 10:12

I've frequented two airlines in my travels with firearms, Southwest and United. Southwest is by far the easiest to deal with when it comes to guns, so I fly them whenever I can. I always put the weapons in a separate pelican case with some sturdy TSA locks I found (Denver TSA cut my masterlocks to "inspect" my case once). Sometimes I throw empty mags, holsters, or other gear if I'm trying to save weight in my other bag (usually I fly with rifles and handguns). My other bag typically holds my armor and other gear. The carry on is stuffed with clothes and whatever else I can carry to save weight (armor is heavy!!!!). I usually throw HP ammo in a kifaru pull out still in the mags. I've also used a smaller pelican handgun case inside my gear bag to hold loaded mags to further ease the TSA (though I always tend to end up with the "you won a free inspection" tag inside my gear bag.....)

I type this waiting for a plane now. This is a quick business trip so I only few with 2 handguns in the pelican handgun case and the ammo in the mags in a kifaru pouch in my other checked bag. They only care that there is no loose ammo, and if you put ammo in the same case as the guns, it cannot be in mags! Also, you are limited to 11lbs. of ammo, which is about 350 rnds of 5.56 and 100-200rnds of 9mm

Buckaroo

03-24-10, 10:38

I have flown often with a gun or two. I use the same locking case that I keep under my seat in my truck. http://www.center-of-mass.com/Store_InCarGunSafe.htm for my pistols and I often use a similar case (found at WW and has a smaller foot print but is deeper) for my ammo just to keep everyone at ease.

I do not allow much extra time but it does take a few minutes longer to escort my bag to TSA and allow them time for inspection.

I have not had to show my gun to be unloaded anytime recently but have done so in the past. It seems like they may have learned it is more safe to just lock it up than to require folks to manipulate their weapons for counter agents who would barely know which end the round might come out.

Fill out the red card, place it in your luggage (some want it in the gun case others only want it in the bag. escort your bag to TSA, unlock and wait for your keys to be returned. Fly to your destination.

I fly out of Chicago (land of the oppressed) and into Denver and Atlanta for the most part. Never had a problem.

YMMV

Buckaroo

YammyMonkey

03-24-10, 11:05

I flew from Denver to Houston last month on frontier & didn't have any issues. Both ticket agents took my word that the guns were unloaded & I only had a couple factory boxes of ammo.

I used a Pelican case inside my suitcase for the weapons & ammo & carried on my eye & ear pro with no issues.

On both flights I was delayed at most 10 minutes waiting for the X-Ray.

Rider79

03-24-10, 11:27

I've flown out of Vegas a few times with a handgun, its never been a hassle. Last time the first ticket agent must have never seen a gun before, because she didn't seem to know what to do, but the other agent stepped in quickly and handled it with no problem. I just kept the magwell empty and the slide locked back in the case. As for ammo I never flew with it, just picked some up when I got there or kept it stored at the location I was heading to (parents). If you decide to fly without ammo there is a gun shop right up the street from the airport.

ST911

03-24-10, 11:27

My ritual:

Plastic case w/ locks, 2-4 handguns inside.
100-200 rounds of ammo in mags in pouches, hard plastic ammo case for backup.
Extra declaration tag for any agent that thinks the tag goes inside the case.
Copy of regs in my carry-on.

In the event of problem, be nice, don't argue, ask for a supervisor.

I fly mostly United/Skywest and NWA/Mesaba. No problems.

There are several other threads about flying with firearms worth reading, too.

civilian

03-24-10, 12:18

This is my experience after about 30 or so flights over the last two years with a gun.

I use a generic plastic case capable of being locked with a padlock. Originally I was using a metal case, but finally realized that it apparently throws off the x-ray machine or whatever they use as I would always have to open up the case for TSA's viewing pleasure. Plastic case switch was implemented and haven't had to open the case since.

The plastic case I have has foam in it. I place my loaded magazines and my knife under the foam, and the empty gun on top. When I arrive at the counter, I declare the firearm, sign the orange gun tag thing, and place it in the case on top of the gun, while showing the ticket agent (who for the most part don't give it much notice) that the gun is empty. I don't say shit about the ammo being in mags below the foam. I then lock the case with the padlock, and then run a cable lock through the handle of the case and around one of the internal rails in my luggage bag. Anyone with time can defeat the case and/or the cable lock, but it'll take time and I'm hedging my bets that these days they just don't have a lot of time to go through that ass pain.

Trot the whole thing over to the security dudes and stand there while they scan it. Since moving to the plastic case, I have not been asked to open the bag and usually get a thumbs up that I'm good to go.

The only time I've had an issue with TSA was leaving Orlando from the 2009 SHOT Show when the guy in front of me who had his ammo similarly packed was being told that the ammo had to be in a separate case all together. While he was arguing with some dude, a senior TSA dude approached me and I volunteered that my bag was similarly packed, that I had done so the previous umpteen times without any issues, and advised that I didn't have any additional cases or bags to move the ammo and mags to if they insisted as I'd just gotten back from Iraq and packed hastily and lightly to head down to SHOT. Dude said no problem, swapped contact info with me in case I ever passed through his AO again, and I was on my way. I don't tell the airline agents I have the ammo riding in mags beneath the gun as they often don't know what the hell they are doing when it comes to gun travel other than giving you that tag and knowing the gun isn't supposed to be loaded.

I've flown United, Delta, American, Air Tran, JetBlue, Southwest, US Airways, Continental and one other airline that I'm blanking on at the moment via the above methods out of Dulles, Reagan National, STL, ATL, Chicago, Houston, MIA, FLL and about 6 other airports and have had no other issues, other than the fricking woman manning the Air Tran desk at 0600 out of Dulles twice sending my bags to fricking Atlanta instead of with me to St. Louis.

Buckaroo

03-24-10, 13:27

nickdrak

03-24-10, 14:35

Excellent info, thanks for all of the responses!

So when we check in with the ticket agent, that is when I declare the firearm? I am flying out of Chicago O'hare.

civilian

03-24-10, 15:19

Yup, and in fact lately I've been checking my bags online (lower bag check fee on some airlines) and then upon getting my boarding pass at the machine at the airport, I then approach a clerk and declare the firearm. But yes, once you get to the airport you approach a ticket clerk at the counter and declare the gun. Once you're done with the show and tell/sign part of that process, they should then walk you and the bag (varies...in STL you bring the bag to TSA yourself, while at Dulles the agent carries the bag with you following) to TSA and wait for them to scan it and give you the ok sign, after which you can then go deal with the security line to get to your gate.

Pathfinder Ops

03-24-10, 15:42

I travel A LOT with my handgun.

This is what I use http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=274442

Its PERFECT for 1 gun & 2 mags. I put a full frame 1911 w/ 2mags in it.
TSA approved.
Comes with a cable that can also be used to secure the box to a permanent item.
Small enough that it fits easily into my suitcase/ baggage AFTER inspection.

Colo.TJ

03-24-10, 16:55

Some airlines allow ammo to be stored in a magazine and some require it to be in a "container" of some sort?

Tennvol12345

03-24-10, 16:57

Just make sure the TSA guy doesn't swab your box of ammunition (not the gun case) for explosives and get excited when it turns the swab colors. I mean seriously...wtf do you expect to happen when you swab ammo for explosive residue.
This was at DCA flying to ATL.

HowardCohodas

03-24-10, 18:15

I take three documents with me with I travel by air.

The current version of what is on the TSA website. Traveling with Special Items -- Firearms & Ammunition (http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm)
The airlines specific rules. The airlines are permitted to make more restrictive rules. Don't depend on airline personnel being properly trained on their own rules.
The Congressman Young Letter from the US Attorney General in case you get routed through New York (http://www.nysrpa.org/FOPA-DOJltrTSA.pdf)

Some additional thoughts:

There should be no debate about where the red tag goes. The TSA website is reasonably clear. If I have enough time and they guess wrong, I turn this into a teachable moment.

I prefer the metal sided case like the Secure-It even though I usually have to open it for the TSA. I'm willing to trade some additional time for the additional deterrence to theft over a plastic case. Call me paranoid.

I prefer Visualock to secure my handgun. Again, if my gun is stolen, it is another deterrence to easily making the gun functional without the special key.

I carry fully loaded magazines in the safe with my gun. Have never had a complaint.

Most of the extra time is consumed by conversation about guns and my securing technique with the TSA people. Even got a lead on a student from the Seattle TSA guy.

I tape business cards to the gun safe with my name and phone number in case the outside identification information is lost. Thus when the bags are opened the airlines have a better chance of matching me up with my lost bag.

To speed recovery of my bags at my destination I color code the handles using colored electrical tape. It makes my bags easy to spot. I have a coding system so that should there be any dispute about a bag, I can prove it is mine. This is a popular service I perform for my CCW students, i.e. color coding the handles and registering their code.

Buckaroo

03-24-10, 18:25

Excellent info, thanks for all of the responses!

So when we check in with the ticket agent, that is when I declare the firearm? I am flying out of Chicago O'hare.

Also, I would advise that you not just wait in line but alert one of the staff that you have an item to declare and that should expedite your processing.

btw: Congrats on the 1,000th post!

Buckaroo

FromMyColdDeadHand

03-24-10, 19:18

I usually fly armed because it's work related but last summer flew back from Denver after a varmint hunting trip. What a circus of idiocy at the airport.

I've flown with handguns a number of times with Forntier from there with little incident. I did get the feeling that there is a lot of variation in tag location for hanguns between the airlines and TSA.

If there's a separate x-ray station (which there are at some airports) and there's a pile of baggage there, I simply tell one of the TSA screeners that I have a firearm in the bag and ask if they'd mind going ahead and x-ray it while I'm standing there so that I can go on to my departure gate. To date, they've always taken my bag to the front of the line and run it through while I wait. Here's the trick: be polite and smile.

There is an ongoing debate as to whether the firearms declaration tag goes in the gun case or if it goes in the checked bag, but outside the gun case. I usually place it in the checked bag, on top of my clothes, etc. where it can be seen as soon as someone opens the suitcase. However, if an enthusiastic ticket/counter agent says that it must go inside the gun case, I ask "are you sure?". If they say they are sure, I don't bother arguing with them. Just take the extra 15 seconds to put the tag inside the gun case. If your gun case is a separate piece of checked baggage, then the tag obviously has to go inside the case.

Double check that your gun case and luggage are locked before letting the ticket/counter agent take it. It can be easy to forget this in the shuffle at the counter, especially if you're in a hurry or prone to stress out at the airport.

When I lock it, they want to see in it, when I don't lock it, the never want to look :rolleyes:

Excellent info, thanks for all of the responses!

So when we check in with the ticket agent, that is when I declare the firearm? I am flying out of Chicago O'hare.

Interested to hear how Chicago goes. Handguns or rifles?

Interesting that the TSA site says mags need a cover or holder. I've flown Frontier a lot with mag jocked up to save space and never had an issue. They fit in my case with the gun.

Smile and act like you know what you are doing and carry a copy of the arilines and TSA regs.

A question for Nick and people in general, say travelling with a handgun thru O'hare or Midway. Would you need anything to show that you are travelling thru Chicago and not staying? Your ID would prove you live outside of Chicago, and a hotel confirmation would show you are leaving Chicago. Anyone that is non-LEO have to deal with local PD in addition to TSA/Airline people?

Alpha Sierra

03-24-10, 19:21

Nick,

As far as the lock box goes, I use pelican cases with the double pad lock holes. That way someone can't pry up one side of your case to get to the pistol. I can't remember what model number I have but it can easily carry two full size hand guns and about 6 spare mags. As for the ammo, in the past I just packed it well in my carry on.

One thing to make sure of: check the policies of the airline you will be flying on. They don't all have the same rules/regs concerning firearms.
+1

Avoid Air Tran at all costs. They will force you to carry your handgun ammo in a completely separate suitcase than where your handgun is. I mean, for them it is not enough to have the handgun in a locked case in a suitcase then the ammo in the same suitcase but not in the locked gun case. TWO separate pieces of luggage. F that.

The last time I flew it was with Delta. My M&P, two mags, and 40 rounds of Speer Gold Dots went all in the same double padlocked Pelican case. I cut the foam out for the pistol, one mag, and two 20 round boxes of ammo. The ammo boxes were stacked one on top of the other. The second mag went into the pistol itself. Nobody (airline or TSA) at either Dayton or Miami had an issue with anything.

Do not use TSA locks on your handgun case. By law, only YOU can have the ability to get into it. Not even TSA can have access without you present.

Relentless

03-24-10, 19:35

Well, if this thread does nothing else, it demonstrates that there a lot of ways to go at this. As you well know, you are dealing with two entities: ticket folks and TSA-types - neither of which can be depended on to be competent.

My personal horror story started at the ticket counter when the ticket dude asked to see the unloaded firearm. When I opened the case and locked back the slide, dude got a visible adrenaline dump. I honestly thought he was gonna faint. This may have been the first firearm he had ever seen in person. Showing him the gun was unloaded was about like somebody demonstrating the phase lock loop demodulator on the space shuttle to me. He had not the slightest idea what he was looking at. It was about that time, that counter dude informed me that magazines were not an approved container despite the airline's own website saying they were. He stated that the ammo must be packaged in the factory boxes. So, three mags full of ammo in the trash and I'll have to buy more when I land at my destination.

Then the case goes to the TSA guys. They do their thing and give me the thumbs up. I watch them re-attach my lock (this will become key later on).

I was heading to Del Rio - the armpit of Texas. This was at a time when kidnapping was getting fairly common in that area. Flew into Houston (? I think) then drove a rental a few hours from there. Upon touching down, I go to the luggage retrieval area. No joy. They lost my friggin luggage - first that had ever happened! Unfortunately, my 1911 was in the luggage. Grrrrr!!!! On the bright side, at least I had no need to worry about buying ammo.

No worries they said. They knew where my luggage was and they would deliver to my motel room. Fat lot o' good *that* was gonna do me on my drive down the border. Sure enough, late that night my luggage shows. Prayers were said hoping that the 1911 would still be there. It was. One *tiny* problem. Remember when I said that the TSA guy re-installed the lock on the pelican case? Well, it was an adjustable padlock. The body of the lock comes completely off the hasp and can cinch down pretty far. This would keep thieves from unlatching the lid and scooting the gun out thru the crack. Pretty clever, huh? Never did I imagine that TSA guy would turn the body of the lock so that the keyhole was facing the inside of the hasp. This resulted in a condition whereby I could not insert the f'in key into the lock. So not only did I not have use of the pistol in the armpit of Texas, I had no way to show the gun was clear for the return flight! It was about this time that I was ready to strangle the shit outta the nearest TSA guy, or anybody who had anything to do with the airline industry!

I ended up FedExing the pistol back to myself (another little bit of adventure I won't bore you with).

So, lessons learned:

Lesson #1: Do not fly with any firearm that has any sort of significant value to you.

Lesson #2: Try to anticipate and prepare for any foolish BS coming from the other side of the counter. (I should have brought the factory ammo boxes. I could have tossed them if I didn't need them).

Lesson #3: Have a back-up plan.

After this debacle I try to avoid flying. Not always possible, but always up for discussion. (Air travel in general now just pisses me off.) I have resigned myself to flying with blades and other less effective weapons only. The best option is to have a friend on the other end who will provide a loaner for the duration of your stay.

When I first started flying in the early 90's it was a pretty good way to get around. Now, it simply sucks for the most part. It's easier to enter most jails than to board a plane now.

Nick, I hope you have a good trip.

ETA: Flying is not always all bad. I found myself flying on 9-11-2002. The flight was only moderately crowded. I had a row of seats to myself and the gent across the aisle was returning from Iraq. He was with the Big Red One. He was heading home on leave. We talked about the conditions he had been living in for past several months and just generally passed the time in a pleasant manner, talking off and on. There were no other passengers that caught my eye as being someone we needed to be concerned about as wanting to give us an "anniversary gift" but me and Big Red One had an understanding about what was gonna happen if hadji popped up. The pilot acknowledged the significance of the date and then acknowledged the special passenger. He got a loooong round of enthusiastic applause. Overall, this was one of the coolest things I have experienced.

HowardCohodas

03-24-10, 19:45

I did get the feeling that there is a lot of variation in tag location for hanguns between the airlines and TSA.

Variation, yes. But one way is correct and the other is not. Think for a minute about the purpose the card serves. The card I'm holding says "I declare, as required by Federal Air regulation 1544.293, that the firearm(s) being checked as baggage is/(are) unloaded and packed in a hard-sided locked container" If it is inside the locked gun case, what would be the point?

The TSA is permitted to open your bags at any time during the transit of your bags, not just at initial inspection. The gun case is to have a lock for which only you have the key. It is wise for you to have a TSA compliant lock on your containing baggage as they will get in your bag with or without that convenience. The tag will then inform them that the locked safe has been acknowledged as compliant.
[/QUOTE]

A question for Nick and people in general, say travelling with a handgun thru O'hare or Midway.

You might find the Congressman Young letter referred to in my previous post informative in this matter as well.

threeheadeddog

03-24-10, 21:10

I think its safe to assume everyone posting on this site has a gun so I will say very bluntly ...You should not be traveling WITHOUT a firearm in your checked luggage.

The reason is simple. You can use a firearm to protect you other desirables from being stolen by people with TSA keys. Here is something I wrote in another post to clear things up.

It was reciently brought to my attention that because of the wording of the rules you can actually place your firearm in a SOFT sided case INSIDE a HARD piece of luggage that is locked WITHOUT a TSA lock(meaning use the biggest lock you can find).
That means that according to their rules you MUST lock the firearm inside of a HARD sided case but you can have as much stuff as you like in the case with the firearm. So you can have a completely solid, unaccessable piece of luggage with a stout paddle lock that you can put whatever you dont want every luggage handler with a TSA key getting into. As long as you have a firearm in the case/luggage you can protect all your electronics, valuables, ect.
Somewhere on the net their is a video of how this works by a guy who keeps all his luggage in large steel containgers with industrial locks lol. He has to pay for the weight but apparently he had stuff stolen one too many times.

RWK

03-24-10, 22:13

does ammo need to be in a hard sided lockable box? or just the guns?

Just the guns.

is it advisable to field strip the weapon to make it easier to show unloaded condition?

I suppose you could if you wanted to. I never do.

Denver TSA cut my masterlocks to "inspect" my case once

They violated Fed law by doing that. Gotta love the TSA sometimes...

Fill out the red card, place it in your luggage (some want it in the gun case others only want it in the bag.

See, it's not just me this happens to.

Extra declaration tag for any agent that thinks the tag goes inside the case.

Brilliant!

So when we check in with the ticket agent, that is when I declare the firearm?

Correct.

Some airlines allow ammo to be stored in a magazine and some require it to be in a "container" of some sort?

Correct, and some ticket/counter agents don't know their own airlines rules. I avoid the potential problems altogether by not carrying loaded mags in my luggage.

Don't depend on airline personnel being properly trained on their own rules.

Word.

There should be no debate about where the red tag goes. The TSA website is reasonably clear. If I have enough time and they guess wrong, I turn this into a teachable moment.

There shouldn't be but, there often is. Trying to turn something relatively trivial into a "teachable moment" is what gets people jammed up with the airlines and the TSA, resulting in missed flights and sometimes arrest. Why bother?

I prefer the metal sided case like the Secure-It even though I usually have to open it for the TSA. I'm willing to trade some additional time for the additional deterrence to theft over a plastic case. Call me paranoid.

A likely reason you have to open it is because the metal shows up differently under the x-ray than the plastic. A thief with the ability to get into a locked Storm Case or Pelican will get into a metal case too. You're paranoid. :p

When I lock it, they want to see in it, when I don't lock it, the never want to look

Of course! But it should always be locked.

I think its safe to assume everyone posting on this site has a gun so I will say very bluntly ...You should not be traveling WITHOUT a firearm in your checked luggage.

Somehow I don't think "I know threeheadeddog on M4C.net and he said I should" would keep me from being arrested at an airport in NYC... ;)

RWK

03-24-10, 22:39

It was reciently brought to my attention that because of the wording of the rules you can actually place your firearm in a SOFT sided case INSIDE a HARD piece of luggage that is locked WITHOUT a TSA lock(meaning use the biggest lock you can find).
That means that according to their rules you MUST lock the firearm inside of a HARD sided case but you can have as much stuff as you like in the case with the firearm. So you can have a completely solid, unaccessable piece of luggage with a stout paddle lock that you can put whatever you dont want every luggage handler with a TSA key getting into. As long as you have a firearm in the case/luggage you can protect all your electronics, valuables, ect.
Somewhere on the net their is a video of how this works by a guy who keeps all his luggage in large steel containgers with industrial locks lol. He has to pay for the weight but apparently he had stuff stolen one too many times.

If the TSA cuts the locks to inspect the container, the container is now unsecured and you can't legally transport the gun(s). Even if you have a spare set of locks, you'd have to hump it back to the ticket counter or TSA inspection area, clear security again, etc.

Which would be more attractive to a thief: a piece of luggage that looks like one of the gazillion other bags on the conveyor, or the big, shiny box that screams "valuable stuff inside, please steal me"?

Trust me when I say this: after having investigated and broken up several organized theft operations at major airports, there is practically nothing you can do to adequately secure your luggage against theft or forcible entry if it's targeted for such. Entire pallets of cargo go missing. If you make your bag stand out, you're only increasing the likelihood of it being targeted. It's like shipping a 100-lb package via UPS and labeling it "Fragile - Handle with care". That's a guarantee that someone, somewhere along the line is going to soccer-kick that bitch just for spite. The locks on your luggage only help keep the honest people honest.

Some people can be very determined to cause themselves unnecessary anxiety over flying with guns by over-thinking the issue and outsmarting themselves.

HowardCohodas

03-24-10, 23:11

There should be no debate about where the red tag goes. The TSA website is reasonably clear. If I have enough time and they guess wrong, I turn this into a teachable moment.
There shouldn't be but, there often is. Trying to turn something relatively trivial into a "teachable moment" is what gets people jammed up with the airlines and the TSA, resulting in missed flights and sometimes arrest. Why bother?
I'm an NRA Certified Instructor and teach CCW. I love the art of teaching and persuasion. In the instances where they guessed wrong, I identified myself as an instructor and produced the TSA and airline documentation that I referred to in an earlier post. In every case they expressed appreciation and frequently got others involved in the teachable moment. I think giving in to ignorance is not in the cards for someone with a teacher's personality.

I prefer the metal sided case like the Secure-It even though I usually have to open it for the TSA. I'm willing to trade some additional time for the additional deterrence to theft over a plastic case. Call me paranoid.

A likely reason you have to open it is because the metal shows up differently under the x-ray than the plastic. A thief with the ability to get into a locked Storm Case or Pelican will get into a metal case too. You're paranoid. :p

Nothing is theft-proof. The only thing you can do is increase the "cost" in time and difficulty of executing the theft. I also increase the "cost" in utilizing the gun with Visualock so that there is additional difficulty in using the gun without the special key or resorting to non-standard tools.

Correct, and some ticket/counter agents don't know their own airlines rules. I avoid the potential problems altogether by not carrying loaded mags in my luggage.

Or you could show them your freshly printed copy of the information from the airline's website. It's worked for me without trauma.

We are mostly talking about different approaches to avoiding or solving the challenges of traveling by air with guns. I don't presume any of the answers can be characterized as best. Each of these approaches must fit the personality of the particular traveler.

nickdrak

03-25-10, 00:58

Also, I would advise that you not just wait in line but alert one of the staff that you have an item to declare and that should expedite your processing.

btw: Congrats on the 1,000th post!

Buckaroo

Will do, thanks!

It took me long enough to get my 1000th post;)

I just picked up a Pelican 1170 for my trip. How about placing a simple trigger lock on the pistol inside of the box, in conjunction with the double pad locked Pelican case? (if someone already suggested that, I apologize, I missed it). Im also considering the "Visualock" if it will work with the little Kahr PM9.

Im flying American Airlines both ways, so I will call them tomorrow to clarify, but is it generally acceptable to enclose a factory cardboard box of ammo in the Pelican case along with the unloaded pistol and mags?

Rider79

03-25-10, 02:27

The best option is to have a friend on the other end who will provide a loaner for the duration of your stay.

It doesn't work for this situation but to get around this when I travel back home I keep a handgun and carbine at my old partner's house with ammo and gear for each, and he or his wife meet me at the airport with the handgun.

WesleyCE

03-25-10, 02:38

Nick,

I hope I am understanding your last post correctly. If not, forgive me.

Are you thinking of just locking the pistol and not the box you are transporting it in? If so, you can't just put a trigger lock on the pistol, you have to actually lock the case it is in. I use Brinks or Master Lock padlocks.

nickdrak

03-25-10, 02:49

HowardCohodas

03-25-10, 03:58

Im also considering the "Visualock" if it will work with the little Kahr PM9.

Im flying American Airlines both ways, so I will call them tomorrow to clarify, but is it generally acceptable to enclose a factory cardboard box of ammo in the Pelican case along with the unloaded pistol and mags?

I've got Visualock's for my LCP, M&P 45 and M&P AR 15-22, so I'm nearly certain you will find a model that fits the PM9.

The ammo need not be in a locked container. I've carried mine in the boxes they came in with the ammo boxes among my clothes. I also carry ammo in the magazines inside the gun safes with the gun. My reading of the TSA documents indicates that this is permissible, although the airlines can be more restrictive. I have never had difficulty with this method although others in this post have contrary experience.

HowardCohodas

03-25-10, 04:11

Also, I would advise that you not just wait in line but alert one of the staff that you have an item to declare and that should expedite your processing.

Hmmm. It never occurred to me to try to get to the head of the line because I was checking a handgun with my luggage. The longest lines I've encountered have not been at the airline counter but at the TSA checkpoint. I did get a personal escort from the TSA checker who inspected my baggage with the handgun to the head of the line at the TSA checkpoint in Seattle. That was because my wife had lost her photo ID and was vocal about my taking too long getting my handgun processed because the TSA guy was giving me a lead on someone he knew in Canton who might want to take their CCW course from me.

nickdrak

03-25-10, 04:19

American Airline's policy states:

The information shown below pertains to travel within the United States only (unless stated otherwise). For information on the transportation of firearms and ammunition to international destinations, please contact Reservations.

General Information

*Firearms and ammunition are accepted as checked baggage only.

*Firearms will only be accepted if unloaded and in a locked, hard-sided container only (for example - rifle case. TSA approved locks are now accepted).

*Ammunition must be packed in its original packaging. Loose ammunition or clips will not be accepted.

*Firearms may not be checked curbside.

*No one under 18 years of age may check a firearm.

*Pellet and BB guns are not considered firearms, and therefore, do not require any special handling or documentation.

WesleyCE

03-25-10, 06:19

That's intresting about the BB guns and pellet guns, especially since some of them are pushing pellets faster than a .22LR. I'm sure you can't take it on your carry on though.:D

WesleyCE

03-25-10, 06:19

Double post.

FromMyColdDeadHand

03-25-10, 08:58

Hmmm. It never occurred to me to try to get to the head of the line because I was checking a handgun with my luggage.

Just don't say "I'm going to the front of the line because I have a gun." ;)

JSantoro

03-25-10, 09:52

In the event of problem, be nice, don't argue, ask for a supervisor.

This works, thankfully. Bottom line up front, it's rare in the extreme to have any problem with TSA. It's usually the airline employee standing behind the counter that has no working knowledge of what their company's firearms policy is.

Anecdotal, from one of my flights, coming out of Vegas from SHOT. I regularly ensure that I cpoy/paste/print the relevant policies of both the TSA and the airline I'm flying on, just in case I need paper to wave. Never had need until this point.

I was flying United, which is my primary go-to airline for either business or personal travel. Ended up in a verbal donnybrook with the airheaded broad behind the counter over my hard locks on the case. Not only do I know I'm right, THE AIRLINE POLICY WAS WRITTEN ON THE FRONT OF THE COUNTER, and clearly defined what type of locks were required (non-TSA locks). She basically refused to read that or my copy of United policy (although, the fact that the header I'd typed on that was in 44pt font, highlighted, and read ATTN: HALF-WIT AIRLINE DOUCHE!! READ ME!! may have had somethig to do with that).

Extraordinarily frustrating. I REALLY wanted to go loud, but...*sigh* common sense won out. Supervisor and/or TSA, NOW, your policy does NOT supercede law no I won't stand aside I'll wait right here and you can work around me shut up now thanks. Quietly.

It got worked out, and that's just one example out of over a decade taking 8+ trips/year with guns. It's usually the airline workers that give you the hassle. Never had an issue with TSA except for an international flight, and that dealt with laser devices (which both are and are not weapons; depends on which dictionary you read). I chalk that one up to one guy at Dulles being a glass-licker.

As for this: "TSA approved locks are now accepted."
DON'T fall for that! TSA requires that your locks be of a type acessible ONLY by you (be it key or combo), so use only hard locks, and as many of them as there are holes for them on the case. If somebody wants to inspect your bag again, after check-in, they are required to contact you IOT unlock it.

Oh, and ammo: the trend I've seen is that they are most concerned with lose rounds rolling around hither and yon. I play the odds and stick with full magazines kept in mag shingles with retention. Haven't had an issue to this day, though I know many airlines call for "original packaging." Judgement call on the part of the traveler.

Dave Berryhill

03-25-10, 17:39

Yeah, I've had to train a few UPS and Fed Ex employees on what their company policy on shipping firearms is too.

WillBrink

03-25-10, 18:08

Nick,
The factory ammo box (flimsy as it is) may be required for transport of ammo despite what any other TSA/airline guidance may say. The guy at the ticket counter *is* the final word on this - and that will vary from one minute to the next. Do not believe it when you read that a firearm magazine is an acceptable storage container. (Ask me how I know.)

I used a pelican case with a TSA-approve lock.

Speaking of that, Supposedly, the lock on the actual gun should be a non TSA approved lock and only the owner of the gun has access. Once looked at/approved by TSA, and tag inserted into box after inspection (which on X ray lets then know it was TSA inspected) there's no reason of the TSA or anyone else to go into the locked box. I do it like so: Small locked box with key only I have, inside larger luggage that then has a TSA approved lock on that. I travel almost monthly with handguns, and that's never been an issue yet. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would not be happy knowing TSA has access to the gun after it was inspected, and there's no reason they should. Check with airlines, but dozens of flights doing it as such, no issues. :cool:

ROCKET20_GINSU

03-26-10, 03:56

I have flown often with a gun or two. I use the same locking case that I keep under my seat in my truck. http://www.center-of-mass.com/Store_InCarGunSafe.htm for my pistols and I often use a similar case (found at WW and has a smaller foot print but is deeper) for my ammo just to keep everyone at ease.

+1 for center of mass stuff. I've got 3 cases and have used them to fly with pistols exclusively. Not overly heavy and very secure and thin.

I've never really had any trouble flying with pistols. I have been asked by 1 counter attendant to show that the pistol was unloaded but I suspect she did this because she was trained to ask by management, by the look on her face I'm pretty skeptical that she actually knew how to properly clear a firearm.

For ammo I usually just carrying the ammo in the original box that it came in and wrap some tape around the ends to make sure it doesn't spill out.

GU

HowardCohodas

03-26-10, 05:47

For ammo I usually just carrying the ammo in the original box that it came in and wrap some tape around the ends to make sure it doesn't spill out.

Good suggestion. I learned that the hard way. The TSA X-ray guy found a loose round in my bags, picked it up, said "This is not good." and handed it to me to put back in the box. A box full of 45s slides around in the suitcase a bunch.

nickdrak

03-27-10, 12:42

Just checked in @ O'hare, everything went smooth! Thanks guys!!!

Irish

03-31-10, 17:15

Please read this for future reference on traveling with firearms. http://volokh.com/2010/03/30/unexpected-flight-delay-hotel-stay-criminal-prosecution-for-gun-possession/

An unfortunate story, detailed in Revell v. Port Authority (3d Cir. 2010): Gregg C. Revell was flying from Salt Lake City to Allentown, Pennsylvania, via Minneapolis and Newark. He had an unloaded gun legally checked in his luggage, which was supposed to meet him at Allentown.

Supposed to. In fact, the flight to Newark was late, so Revell missed his connection. He booked himself on the next flight, but the airline changed those plans. He was supposed to get on a bus, but his luggage didn’t get on the bus with him. He found the luggage, but the bus had left, so he had to stay overnight at the hotel, with his luggage.

Aha! That’s where the crime came in. The Firearms Owners’ Protection Act protected Revell on the plane, and would have protected him on the bus. But the moment the luggage came into his hands or otherwise became “readily accessible” to him outside a car — here, when he got the luggage to go to the hotel, but it would have also happened if he had gotten the luggage to put it into the trunk of a rental car — he violated New Jersey law, which requires a permit to possess a handgun (and which bans the hollow-point ammunition that Revell also had in a separate locked container in his luggage). Revell was arrested when he checked in with the luggage at Newark Airport, and said (as he was supposed to) that he had an unloaded gun in a locked case in his luggage; he then spent four days in jail until he was released on bail. Eventually the New Jersey prosecutor dropped the charges against him, but Revell didn’t get the gun and his other property back until almost three years later.

Revell sued, and lost; the Third Circuit concluded that once he took the luggage in hand in New Jersey, it became “readily accessible,” and the FOPA immunity was lost. And this is indeed a sensible reading of the statutory text:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

So what do you if this happens to you?

Stranded gun owners like Revell have the option of going to law enforcement representatives at an airport or to airport personnel before they retrieve their luggage. The careful owner will do so and explain his situation, requesting that his firearm and ammunition be held for him overnight.[18]

[Footnote 18:] Of course, this suggestion leaves unanswered the question of what the gun owner should do if the law enforcement officers decline to assist him. It may be hoped, however, that officers will not compound a blameless owner’s problems in that way.

Hope does spring eternal, but I suspect that airport police and airport staff aren’t going to be willing to hold people’s luggage for them overnight, especially when it contains a gun. And of course the airport police or staff would then have to personally check in the luggage for the owner, since the owner can’t take it in hand without losing the FOPA immunity.

So watch out when you travel with your gun in checked luggage. If your flight gets routed to a different city, or you have to stay overnight at one of the stops, you could be arrested. Or if you drive across country but your car breaks down, and you need to move the luggage to another car, you could likewise be violating the law (though you’d be less likely to be caught, since you have no obligation declare your gun when you switch cars the way you do when you get on a plane). FOPA gives you a good deal of protection on your travels — but, as Mr. Revell learned, not complete protection.

The 26 page PDF court document can be read here: http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/092029p.pdf

HowardCohodas

04-01-10, 04:41

Please read this for future reference on traveling with firearms. http://volokh.com/2010/03/30/unexpected-flight-delay-hotel-stay-criminal-prosecution-for-gun-possession/

The 26 page PDF court document can be read here: http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/092029p.pdf

Local authorities and even Federal judges seem to like to make up the rules as they go along. I certainly hope this ruling is not the end of the line for this case.

I carry a copy of the following letter from the US Attorney General to Congressman Young when traveling. Letter to Congressman Young (http://www.nysrpa.org/FOPA-DOJltrTSA.pdf) The circumstances of the case and this letter are suspiciously close enough to make you wonder why it did not apply.

Luke_Y

04-01-10, 07:32

From the court doc.

Revell also informed Erickson that, upon missing his flight the day
before, he had taken possession of his bag with the firearm in it
and had gone to a hotel in Newark to stay for the night.

That's basically where he lost the protection of the FOPA. It doesn’t provide for you to stay in a hotel in Newark or anywhere else you may be a prohibited person. Situation sucks... In his position I would have likely never claimed my luggage and discussed options with the Airline, TSA, and possibly Police.

There was a similar situation in MA I think. Man transporting through by car under protection of the FOPA was in an auto accident. He asked the police to take position of the firearm. The catch 22 was that later the FOPA didn’t provide for his picking it up and carrying it to the car, or for a trip that was then originating in Mass....

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-01-10, 16:47

OK, last week my MSP to DEN flight got diverted to MCI. Does anyone off the top of their heads have the faintest clue what all the firearms laws are in Kansas City, MO?

If I had grabbed an airline baggage guy and a cop by the ties and dragged them to my bag would they be able to tell me if everything inside was kosher?

Flying thru Newark is punishment enough. If he had stayed in NY, outside of NY city, assuming that you can have a handgun and HP bullets with out restriction, he would have been OK, correct? For example, he could have landed, gone to a 'free-zone' and come back and been OK?

I just read the wiki on FPAO and safe passage, and I still don't get it. He could have driven thru NJ and stayed at a hotel and not had an issue, correct. Of course no one would have known. What if he had decied to fly to Newark and drive to Allentown. For his return flight from Newark at check in, he wouldn't have had an issue, correct?

Alpha Sierra

04-01-10, 18:36

Irish

04-01-10, 18:46

Missouri, like the rest of normal America, does not bat an eye if you have an unloaded pistol with you in your luggage and then load it up when you get to your hotel room.

I prefer when I exit the terminal and get my rental car.

Luke_Y

04-01-10, 20:34

[QUOTE=FromMyColdDeadHand;616782]OK, last week my MSP to DEN flight got diverted to MCI. Does anyone off the top of their heads have the faintest clue what all the firearms laws are in Kansas City, MO?

Thankfully you would be good to go in KC MO. Not like the mess that can result if you find yourself unwillingly delayed in one of the states with ridiculous firearms laws while in possession of a prohibited firearm...

If I had grabbed an airline baggage guy and a cop by the ties and dragged them to my bag would they be able to tell me if everything inside was kosher?

The airline guy, almost certainly not. You would be in the position of having to explain your predicament to him. The cop, possibly. If it were a state with reasonable firearms laws most likely. If it were a state with ridiculous firearms laws there is a good chance you would have to educate them on the FOPA safe passage provisions and explain your predicament.

Flying thru Newark is punishment enough. If he had stayed in NY, outside of NY city, assuming that you can have a handgun and HP bullets with out restriction, he would have been OK, correct? For example, he could have landed, gone to a 'free-zone' and come back and been OK?

The way I would interpret it yes. It would be 2 trips; One Trip Free Zone to Free Zone (Salt Lake > Newark > hotel in Free Zone). Second Trip Free Zone to Free Zone (Free Zone hotel > Newark> Allentown).

I just read the wiki on FPAO and safe passage, and I still don't get it. He could have driven thru NJ and stayed at a hotel and not had an issue, correct.

As I take it: NO. The law provides for passage... I'm not aware of any case law on spending the night. Who decides if it is necessary for you to spend the night? What if there were a snow storm and one night became 2 or more? What if, what if? Not the thin ice I would want to be on. YMMV ;)

Of course no one would have known. Not something I would want to risk a felony over. People who always figured it could never be them have found themselves involved in a LE contact/investigation for the strangest of reasons.

What if he had decied to fly to Newark and drive to Allentown. For his return flight from Newark at check in, he wouldn't have had an issue, correct?

I see that as the same scenario as the hotel in the free zone so GTG... I see the crux of it as always being a Free Zone > Free Zone trip with no unreasonable delay in Non Free Zones and never having the firearm "readily accessible" in a Non Free Zone.

FromMyColdDeadHand

04-01-10, 22:34

Missouri, like the rest of normal America, does not bat an eye if you have an unloaded pistol with you in your luggage and then load it up when you get to your hotel room.

No licenses or permits to possess. No AWBs. No magazine limits. No registration. Just a simple license if you want to carry concealed and loaded.

Denver has a ban on 20rnd+ mags, right here in the Great West, if you get laid over, make sure your hotel is in Commerce City. Hate to stay at a buddy's house and not have a reciept to prove that I crossed the front lines. My point was that bigger cities, where airports are, even in 'friendly' states can have odd laws that you'd not expect. I didn't know about NJ laws.

I have never seen a cop deal with firearms check-in, always just TSA and counter people. I wonder why they got involved this time, since it is not implausible that someone would check a gun in at Newark.

All this riggamarole for us legal guys to travel with guns and bad guys travel and sell stuff across state lines all the time and never seem to get caught.

Alpha Sierra

04-02-10, 09:06

Denver has a ban on 20rnd+ mags, right here in the Great West, if you get laid over, make sure your hotel is in Commerce City.

My understanding of Denver's AWB applies only to residents. Not people passing through or in temporary domiciles like hotels.

In any case, such an ordinance would not make me lose any sleep.

sandsunsurf

08-12-10, 00:16

Does anybody have any recent experience flying out of Reno? I have flown with guns several times in the past, but I was told that recently Reno changed their procedure and that the firearm has to be checked by the airport police when you declare it. This sounds like a real PITA, and also a possible violation of our state's "preemption law." I'll be flying out with a couple of handguns and a stripped lower.

Also, since I'm already posting- any thoughts on whether or not a stripped lower is considered a firearm for the purposes of air travel? I won't have ANY other AR-15 parts.

Country DeVil

08-12-10, 00:48

last time I flew with a stripped lower I was told that because it is the part with the serial number it is a firearm, so I treated it like one. I declared it when checking in and the look on the face of the lady checking it was great "is this a gun?" "only cause it has a serial number on it." I signed the card and double locked the master locks non tsa approved and went on.

JSantoro

08-12-10, 16:21

I just flew out of Reno on Monday with a handgun, via United. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Reoprted I had a firearm to declare in my Pelican case, signed off on the little orange slip, they called a TSA guy who escorted me to a screening area (office behind the counter, in this case) to inspect. Locked it with non-TSA locks when done, he placed it onto the belt for the tossers to handle.

I had two full magazines, contained in pouches on my gunbag, inside the case. No issues, except that the tossers heaved my Pelican at some point and broke one of the handles. :mad:

I carry printed copies of the TSA and individual airline policies with me, with the appropriate passages highlighted. I've had to explain to folks at the Las Vegas, San Diego, and Richmond, VA airports what their own policies are. What issues arise always come from the airlines and the shitty attitude/political leanings of the schlub behind the counter.

FromMyColdDeadHand

08-12-10, 20:25

I had two full magazines, contained in pouches on my gunbag, inside the case. No issues, except that the tossers heaved my Pelican at some point and broke one of the handles. :mad:

They broke the handle pelican last trip also. I didn't know you could break them that easily?

ST911

08-13-10, 13:55

Also, since I'm already posting- any thoughts on whether or not a stripped lower is considered a firearm for the purposes of air travel? I won't have ANY other AR-15 parts.

Stripped lower is a firearm per applicable law. I wouldn't be creative with it.

Alpha Sierra

08-13-10, 14:08

I prefer when I exit the terminal and get my rental car.

So do I, but in some places that is not possible without incurring a felony charge if caught.

Seawolf

08-13-10, 21:20

There is another way you can transport your firearm on a flight if you are an LEO. Carry it concealed on your person!

All you need is a letterhead from your Chief or Administrative Officer telling TSA you are in fact a LEO and authorized to carry concealed then you can carry concealed on the plane. This was a new exception that was added under the Patriot act a few years ago so that active LE could carry their sidearms onboard planes.

You will need to get everything setup and authorized before your flight so you have all your stuff ready the day of your flight, but it's well worth it. The only persons on the plane that will know you are carrying concealed are the Captain and the Air Marshal if one is on your flight.

It's at least worth looking into. Here is a snippet from the Patriot Act.

The regulation provides exceptions for law enforcement officers (LEO's) required to carry firearms or other weapons while in the performance of law enforcement duties at the airport, for individuals authorized to carry a weapon in accordance with §1544.219(LEO), §1544.221(LEO w/prisoner), §1544.223(Air Marshal), or §1546.211(foreign air carrier provision for LEO) or an individual authorized to carry a weapon in a sterile area under a security program.

Read more: http://www.lawyerintl.com/law-articles/674-Carrying%20Firearms%20On%20Aircraft#ixzz0wXhcerTP

emt370

08-14-10, 08:40

They broke the handle pelican last trip also. I didn't know you could break them that easily?

I'm pretty sure that Pelican will replace it for free. They have a pretty liberal "you break it, we replace it" policy.

emt370

08-14-10, 08:41

There is another way you can transport your firearm on a flight if you are an LEO. Carry it concealed on your person!

All you need is a letterhead from your Chief or Administrative Officer telling TSA you are in fact a LEO and authorized to carry concealed then you can carry concealed on the plane. This was a new exception that was added under the Patriot act a few years ago so that active LE could carry their sidearms onboard planes.

You will need to get everything setup and authorized before your flight so you have all your stuff ready the day of your flight, but it's well worth it. The only persons on the plane that will know you are carrying concealed are the Captain and the Air Marshal if one is on your flight.

It's at least worth looking into. Here is a snippet from the Patriot Act.

I thought that you had to have already taken the class that allows LEO to carry onboard a flight. I don't think that it's a given just because you are a LEO.

Luke_Y

08-14-10, 09:12

I thought that you had to have already taken the class that allows LEO to carry onboard a flight. I don't think that it's a given just because you are a LEO.

You do. It's not as simple as showing up at the security checkpoint with letterhead and a gun. And, you are supposed to be working...

Seawolf

08-14-10, 15:37

So just say you are going to a class problem solved.

ST911

08-15-10, 12:24

[B]There is another way you can transport your firearm on a flight if you are an LEO. Carry it concealed on your person!

All you need is a letterhead from your Chief or Administrative Officer telling TSA you are in fact a LEO and authorized to carry concealed then you can carry concealed on the plane. This was a new exception that was added under the Patriot act a few years ago so that active LE could carry their sidearms onboard planes.

You will need to get everything setup and authorized before your flight so you have all your stuff ready the day of your flight, but it's well worth it. The only persons on the plane that will know you are carrying concealed are the Captain and the Air Marshal if one is on your flight.

Have you flown armed lately? It's not as simple as that.

emt370

08-15-10, 17:15

So just say you are going to a class problem solved.

Not what I meant...see here (http://www.tsa.gov/lawenforcement/programs/traveling_with_guns.shtm). This is the prerequisite class you must have and you must be traveling on official business. I honestly can't even think of why I would need to be authorized to carry while on the plane itself unless I was escorting a prisoner or doing surveillance on a dangerous subject. Some sort of danger on the plane itself.

sandsunsurf

08-21-10, 14:36

The flying while armed regs have changed a bit further, too. You need to have completed the class, then you need a teletype sent through NLETS instead of a letter. Depending on your agency, your chief may or may not see the necessity of being armed but the policy clearly defines certain things like prisoner transport or immediate need to be armed when getting off the plane.

Feds exempt, of course :rolleyes: -- kinda lame when I consider the abilities and training of many of the feds I've worked with when compared to many of the locals I've worked with... No offense to you feds that do train, but many of your peers don't. I'm just sayin':D:):D

GrandPooba

07-05-11, 17:10

Do you guys put the locked handgun case inside your unlocked checked bag? I was reading the US Airways policy and it states that if you do this, you have to sign a Conditional Acceptance Tag. I have no idea what this means...?

Also, are you allowed to use a cable lock to secure the handgun case to the interior of your suitcase?

6933

07-05-11, 18:23

Lock the checked bag with a lock that is TSA approved; meaning they can open it with a special key. Approx. $20 for one.

Dachs

07-05-11, 19:21

Lock the checked bag with a lock that is TSA approved; meaning they can open it with a special key. Approx. $20 for one.

F*** that!

Lock it with real locks. Locks that no one else has the key/combo. They have no reason to get into it after you check it. If they want to check it out, you can be present. PERIOD.

Irish

07-05-11, 19:22

F*** that!

Lock it with real locks. Locks that no one else has the key/combo. They have no reason to get into it after you check it. If they want to check it out, you can be present. PERIOD.

In that case all they would do is simply cut the locks, period.

JSantoro

07-05-11, 19:49

How many times do we need to do this?

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

CARRY A HARD COPY OF THIS POLICY AND THAT OF THE AIRLINE WITH YOU TO WAVE IN THE FACE OF WHATEVER DRONE DOESN'T KNOW THEIR OWN AGENCY'S POLICIES.

Look at the 4th bullet point. It tells you everything you need to know. Non-TSA locks are fine; encouraged, actually, because you and only you are able to open it, making it as secure as it can reasonably be.

Inspection AT THE COUNTER. Or, you get escorted to an inspection area, where you may lock it. I've never used a TSA lock on a gun case, and I conduct 12-16 round trips with guns in the course of a year, and have for the last 5+ years. So do at least a dozen of my friends, three of whom make me look like a homebody because they do INTERNATIONAL travel.

I still say that I have had a greater amount of hassle from the airlines and their employees' ignorance/prejudice/stupidity than I ever have with TSA. They're your biggest cause for concern.

Copies of the policies, on your body. Appropriate passages highlighted. Paste passages onto a Word document so you can include helpful, pithy, large-font additions like "****stick" or "pusillanimous t**t" to get attention to the highlighted areas.

It works. They are beholded to their rules, so arm yourself with knowledge.

.....and non-TSA locks.

Dachs

07-05-11, 19:58

Feds exempt, of course :rolleyes: -- kinda lame when I consider the abilities and training of many of the feds I've worked with when compared to many of the locals I've worked with... No offense to you feds that do train, but many of your peers don't. I'm just sayin':D:):D

I'm a Fed and I agree with you completely about the training. It's embarrassing to see the lack of proficiency/training deficiencies in more than a few of our agents. It's funny how they always seem to be the more vocal agents. But, flying armed is ultra convenient and if you can get your office/department to set it up--I would recommend it.

Dachs

07-05-11, 20:09

In that case all they would do is simply cut the locks, period.

You are correct, but at least you aren't making it easy on them* by giving them a lock they have a key to.

*them == TSA employees with sticky fingers or baggage handlers with TSA lock keys.

Not to mention this is the recommended way to lock firearms.

RagweedZulu

07-05-11, 21:41

My recent experiences:

Carry ammo loose in an old Advil bottle. Airlines require a crush-proof container. Toss this in your luggage.

Ticket agents will most likely look at your unloaded, cased firearm as if it's a severed human hand. They won't touch it. I keep my slide locked back and empty mags riding along side the pistol. For those of you in LE, it REALLY helps to put your badge in the case with the pistol. It can be seen by the eye and the x-ray machine. Makes everyone feel all Gumdrops & Lollipops.

My experience is that the declaration ALWAYS goes in the pistol case before it's locked. You lock it and retain the key. Then carry the box to TSA and they'll scan it. It's always been done very quickly for me. I keep the keys and go on my happy way to the concourse. On several recent flights I've been told the pistol case can no longer be thrown in the luggage, so who really knows.

Double lock the box.

I unlock, load and make ready as soon as possible. Usually in the dark in the back of the bus taking me to the rental cars. I want to be ready when boots hit the local turf. Happy carrying and enjoy Vegas!