View Full Version : Striker vs. hammer fired, too concerned about safety?
I'm shopping for my first pistol (started off in this hobby as a shotgun shooter). It'll be used mostly as a range toy, with a few "tactical pistol" shooting events at my local club mixed in.
I've just about ruled out purchasing anything striker-fired, including the Glock and M&P, because I'm concerned about being able to holster it safely, and think that being able to have my thumb on a hammer while I re-holster is probably a good thing.
I'm not going to be able to CCW whatever I buy (Illinois resident), and 90% of the time I'll won't be drawing out of a holster.
Am I being too concerned about the safety aspect here?
John_Wayne777
03-25-10, 09:25
That's really something only you can decide. Personally speaking, I carry a striker-fired gun every day. I'm just careful about where I carry it, how I carry it, and what stuff I could have on that could find its way into the trigger guard. The hammer-fired guns do allow a larger margin for error in that one aspect of handling, but whether that's worth other tradeoffs is something you'll have to decide on your own.
I'd just as happily carry the P30 as my M&P.
I'm shopping for my first pistol (started off in this hobby as a shotgun shooter). It'll be used mostly as a range toy, with a few "tactical pistol" shooting events at my local club mixed in.
I've just about ruled out purchasing anything striker-fired, including the Glock and M&P, because I'm concerned about being able to holster it safely, and think that being able to have my thumb on a hammer while I re-holster is probably a good thing.
I'm not going to be able to CCW whatever I buy (Illinois resident), and 90% of the time I'll won't be drawing out of a holster.
Am I being too concerned about the safety aspect here?
You will run into varying opinions on this subject. Well-informed folks can and do disagree about such personal matters as how much risk to accept in their endeavors. Like the other posters said, this is really up to you.
For me I went with Glocks but added Cominolli thumb safeties to them. You could do this or buy M&Ps with the factory thumb safety. But I am leery of advising folks to use a handgun with a thumb safety for protection unless they have lots and lots of well-ingrained muscle memory to help them remember to deactivate that safety.
My concern with striker-fired guns was during reholstering and also putting the gun into the nightstand at night and retrieving it in the morning (or God forbid retrieving it at "0 dark thirty" after being awakened by a sound that might or might not be an intruder).
My four Glocks are always loaded and always have a rd in the chamber. I carry IWB at the 3 o'clock position, and always train from my carry holster.
Regarding reholstering a striker-fired gun you could train yourself to always clear the holster by feel or by sight prior to reholstering. Clearing the holster by sight is difficult to do under very low light, and also difficult to do in very bright sunlight because of shadow. Clearing by feel works in all lighting conditions, but may require (depending on carry method) that you shift your gun to your weak hand so that you can use your strong hand to clear the holster.
John_Wayne777
03-25-10, 12:01
FWIW, I plan to give appendix carry a try with a striker-fired handgun...but I'm laying down some ground rules to prevent blowing my wedding tackle off. I'm also not going to take it through something like a training course so as to minimize the opportunity for idiocy to result in blowing my wedding tackle off.
Alpha Sierra
03-25-10, 12:15
Your concerns are exaggerated.
Do you seriously think that you cannot trust yourself to safely holster a handgun each and every time? Do you mean to say that you cannot guarantee that your finger is off the trigger and that you have verified there is nothing in the holster or in the way of the holster that could snag the trigger?
You have all the time in the world to holster a handgun. There is no need to rush and shoot yourself because your finger was on the trigger or your shirt got caught up in the trigger. In fact, since you will only be playing gun games, where the pistol is unloaded and verified so every time before you holster, where's the risk?
To be honest, I prefer to master my tools rather than let my doubts limit what I can do or use.
Like others have said it's ultimately up to you as far as what you're comfortable with.
That said, I think the overwhelming evidence points to this being a non-issue for the MANY folks out there who carry striker fired handguns daily without incident as long the basic tenants of firearm safety are followed.
I carry my walther PPS daily in a leather IWB and I just make sure that I visually and physically verify that the holster is clear before holstering.
Thanks, I really appreciate everyone's perspective.
Your concerns are exaggerated.
Do you seriously think that you cannot trust yourself to safely holster a handgun each and every time? Do you mean to say that you cannot guarantee that your finger is off the trigger and that you have verified there is nothing in the holster or in the way of the holster that could snag the trigger?
You have all the time in the world to holster a handgun. There is no need to rush and shoot yourself because your finger was on the trigger or your shirt got caught up in the trigger. In fact, since you will only be playing gun games, where the pistol is unloaded and verified so every time before you holster, where's the risk?
To be honest, I prefer to master my tools rather than let my doubts limit what I can do or use.
really? are you suggesting that ND's never occur when holstering striker fired pistols?
the OP stated that this was going to be his first pistol. he'll have a pretty steep learning curve ahead of him before he becomes a "master of his tool".
at the very least, his concern is well placed. you obviously have a lot of experience but I wouldn't let that color my recommendations to a beginner...
Alpha Sierra
03-25-10, 14:09
the only problem with this logic is that a huge number of ND associated with reholstering a striker fired pistol is that a piece of clothing or other non-finger object item snags the trigger.
Your "huge" number of NDs is an exaggeration, plain and simple. If you have any kind of stats to prove me wrong, please post them. I'll gladly eat crow but I doubt that I will have to.
The majority of people shooting themselves with striker fired handguns appeared to be cops and only back in the day when such pistols were new. I think pretty much everyone got the picture by now.
The "newbie" angle doesn't work either. The OP, while new to handguns, is by his own admission a competent shotgunner. Shotguns, having single action triggers virtually universally, demand even more trigger discipline than striker-fired handguns. If he can handle a shotgun without shooting himself, he can handle a handgun the same way.
You will run into varying opinions on this subject. Well-informed folks can and do disagree about such personal matters as how much risk to accept in their endeavors. Like the other posters said, this is really up to you.
For me I went with Glocks but added Cominolli thumb safeties to them. You could do this or buy M&Ps with the factory thumb safety. But I am leery of advising folks to use a handgun with a thumb safety for protection unless they have lots and lots of well-ingrained muscle memory to help them remember to deactivate that safety.
My concern with striker-fired guns was during reholstering and also putting the gun into the nightstand at night and retrieving it in the morning (or God forbid retrieving it at "0 dark thirty" after being awakened by a sound that might or might not be an intruder).
My four Glocks are always loaded and always have a rd in the chamber. I carry IWB at the 3 o'clock position, and always train from my carry holster.
Regarding reholstering a striker-fired gun you could train yourself to always clear the holster by feel or by sight prior to reholstering. Clearing the holster by sight is difficult to do under very low light, and also difficult to do in very bright sunlight because of shadow. Clearing by feel works in all lighting conditions, but may require (depending on carry method) that you shift your gun to your weak hand so that you can use your strong hand to clear the holster.
I carry AIWB with an M&P and while at the range (because I don't shoot anywhere else) I look and reholster very slowly while holding my cover garments away from the holster itself. If I ever catch my self not looking I'll know I'm getting too damn comfortable for my own good.
Your "huge" number of NDs is an exaggeration, plain and simple. If you have any kind of stats to prove me wrong, please post them. I'll gladly eat crow but I doubt that I will have to.
The majority of people shooting themselves with striker fired handguns appeared to be cops and only back in the day when such pistols were new. I think pretty much everyone got the picture by now.
The "newbie" angle doesn't work either. The OP, while new to handguns, is by his own admission a competent shotgunner. Shotguns, having single action triggers virtually universally, demand even more trigger discipline than striker-fired handguns. If he can handle a shotgun without shooting himself, he can handle a handgun the same way.
I don't think you understood what I wrote. I didn't say there were a huge number of ND's.
I said that "a huge number of ND associated with reholstering a striker fired pistol is that a piece of clothing or other non-finger object item snags the trigger".
this I'll stand by...
and I wouldn't be too quick to throw the "stats" challenge around lest I may you to show me yours...
in any case, I'm sure any stat you can find will show the incidence of ND's while reholstering hammer fired guns to be considerably less than striker fired, which is what we're talking about.
but that's not the point. the OP said he was getting his first pistol - not that he was a newbie. so, he's a great shotgunner... what does that have to do with safely handling a pistol?
it's a different manual of arms - I shot trap and skeet for many years and all of my guns had safeties on them. when's the last time you put a shotgun in a holster on your hip?
#1 keep your finger off the trigger.
While I see other objects getting in the trigger guard as a possible variable, it's really not likely, and honestly how many times are you holstering and re-holstering a gun? I certainly don't store my guns in the holster, but when I holster up in the morning i always chamber check, keep my finger off the safety, and insert in holster. It doesn't come out until i get home for the day.
As far as the safeties go, all of my carry guns have thumb safeties, but i'd be perfectly fine (mentally) carrying something without a safety. I prefer the thumb safeties because of how i like to grip the gun.
I don't think the issue here is hammer fired versus striker fired as you can get both with manual safeties if you prefer. And with either, if the safety is off, and something pulls the trigger, you're getting a bang. I've read above people saying they ride the hammer when holstering their hammer fired guns, and I guess that's an option. But if it's a DA/SA gun, you'd have to be pushing pretty hard to overcome an average 10lb DA trigger pull.
I believe that 99.99% of the time the gun isn't going off unless you pull the trigger. In my eyes, if your concern is towards having an AD/ND because you got a striker fired pistol instead of a hammer fired, then you're addressing the wrong issue. The firearm itself is sound, negligent discharges happen when the end user is negligent, and causes the firearm to go off. If you're going to be negligent, then you're going to be negligent with a striker or a hammer.
If you're that concerned about being negligent, then look at firearms with manual safeties. But realize that you'll need to train to remove that safety as a second nature in case you ever have to use your firearm in self defense.
While I see other objects getting in the trigger guard as a possible variable, it's really not likely, and honestly how many times are you holstering and re-holstering a gun? I certainly don't store my guns in the holster, but when I holster up in the morning i always chamber check, keep my finger off the safety, and insert in holster. It doesn't come out until i get home for the day.
Given the OPs stated use in competition vice daily carry, repeated holstering is something worth thinking about.
The only helpful thing I can add to this thread is to say that if I only had one pistol, it'd better be a Glock 17.
glockshooter
03-25-10, 20:47
To reply to the OP. I don't know that you are going to find some magical level of safety with a SA with a safety, DA/SA, DAO, or striker fired handgun. It kind of reminds me of the people that come in to gun stores saying they need a gun with a safety because they have kids. Does that make since to you? It is pretty much the same thing you are saying/ implying. Truth be told if you handle any firearm with less care than you should it really is not going to matter what kind of action you have. Most NDs would have happened regardless of the action type. There are always times that a safety may save you from recklessness or complaciency, but that is more than likely the exception rather than the rule. I believe you are doing yourself and everyone around you a disservice by expecting a safety or action type to keep you from making a mistake. It really doesnt matter to me what brand, type, or caliber you choose I just ask you learn the way to handle it properly. If you train yourself to use and carry a weapon properly the concerns you have now will be pretty irrelevent.
Matt
John_Wayne777
03-25-10, 21:34
#1 keep your finger off the trigger.
While I see other objects getting in the trigger guard as a possible variable, it's really not likely, and honestly how many times are you holstering and re-holstering a gun?
If you're in a training course, a lot. I do it once or twice a day on average as my M&P goes from holster duty to night stand duty.
I learned a long time ago, however, to reholster in a slow, deliberate fashion. I can't tell you how many people I've seen at classes who reholster like they are trying to drive the weapon through somebody's skull....especially when they are frustrated. If you haven't done it a lot or really watched people do it a lot it's natural to underestimate just how easy it is to foul up.
I used to be in the "you have to be an idiot to shoot yourself while reholstering!" camp until I got my hash settled by people who were smarter and more experienced than me quite some time ago. I heeded their advice...and on one definite occasion I narrowly avoided putting a round through my leg because something got caught in the trigger guard of my M&P as I reholstered.
And with either, if the safety is off, and something pulls the trigger, you're getting a bang. I've read above people saying they ride the hammer when holstering their hammer fired guns, and I guess that's an option. But if it's a DA/SA gun, you'd have to be pushing pretty hard to overcome an average 10lb DA trigger pull.
By applying positive pressure on the hammer as you reholster you make it impossible for the trigger to be pulled. This, believe it or not, has saved people's bacon before. If people meet resistance when going in the holster for some reason their dominant instinct is to press harder. With a hammer fired gun using positive pressure on the hammer, pressing harder won't result in a trigger pull.
I believe that 99.99% of the time the gun isn't going off unless you pull the trigger. In my eyes, if your concern is towards having an AD/ND because you got a striker fired pistol instead of a hammer fired, then you're addressing the wrong issue. The firearm itself is sound, negligent discharges happen when the end user is negligent, and causes the firearm to go off. If you're going to be negligent, then you're going to be negligent with a striker or a hammer.
I'm not trying to pick on you here, but this is exactly the attitude I'd like to see done away with in the gun world. People speak as if there are two classes of people handling guns, safe people and negligent people. It's much closer to the truth to say that people are people. Part of being a person means you are vulnerable to screwing up. If that screwup happens to involve a firearm, the odds of severe injury or death are pretty high. The next ND/AD could be ours. It can happen to me. Therefore it behooves me to remain switched on when handling firearms and to consciously develop thoughtful handling and carry practices based on a realistic assessment of the weapon I am dealing with and the potential vulnerabilities it brings to the table.
Striker fired guns with a ~ 5.5 pound trigger and no manual safety are safe for carry and daily use.
BUT...
The margin for error on such a weapon is considerably smaller than on one with a heavier trigger and/or a manual safety.
New and inexperienced gun owners will never realize this if people don't discuss these issues sensibly.
RogerinTPA
03-25-10, 21:35
As others have alluded to, it's a training issue. If you are not familiar with a certain weapon system, you need to practice with it, and often, including drawing and firing from your favorite holster, until you can build the muscle memory to become comfortable with it. A combo of drawing and dry firing with snap caps at home, then with live fire at the range, will go along way towards building that confidence. A couple of pistol classes for some quality instruction, is also a good idea.
i think its absolutely possible to get something stuck in the trigger of any gun while holstering...
the last time I took a class it was a blazing hot day...
i was wearing a button down short sleeve shirt as a cover garment...I had a t-shirt on underneath it, tucked into my pants...at the time I was carrying a G17 in a C-TAC IWB....
on several occasions as I would go to reholster I would notice that my T-shirt would have become untucked during movement and firing drills...and could easily become snagged on the gun during reholstering...in fact it was more prevalent around the holster because of the natural "gapping" that occurs in your pants around the holster when it is IWB
because I too am a fan of slow, deliberate re-holstering it never became an issue because I would take the time to positively ensure my holster was clear before re-inserting my gun
but if I had been just pounding the gun back into the holster I could have absolutely gotten my t shirt caught in the trigger guard....
having said all that...I also carry a striker fired pistol every day and feel fine with it...its a matter of awareness and diligence....EVERY time....
ROCKET20_GINSU
03-26-10, 03:44
FWIW, I plan to give appendix carry a try with a striker-fired handgun...but I'm laying down some ground rules to prevent blowing my wedding tackle off. I'm also not going to take it through something like a training course so as to minimize the opportunity for idiocy to result in blowing my wedding tackle off.
I absolutely understand the feeling. I've been carrying in my AIWB looper w/ a G19 for the past 6 months and I'm definitely "careful" when I reholster, I got the looper because I really appreciate the pros of carrying in that position (especially not needing as large a shirt to CCW effectively) and wanted to give it a try. Since my G19 is the largest of my carry guns I decided to give it a go. If I decide to carry AIWB in the long term I'll switch to a hammer fired gun (probably dak or lem) for increased safety as the more often you do something the greater the %risk in the long run.
The recent threads on AD/ND's and shooting themselves reminds me that you really need to be aware and careful. It is true accidents can happen to anyone.
**************
To the OP...I think you're making responsible considerations, I too remember 6 years ago when I began shooting / carrying pistols that I thought the Glock and similar SFA guns were more scary and less safe, I remember looking at the first glock that I rented at an indoor range (1st time firing pistol and lots of booms going off) trying to decide what my first pistol would be and thinking that I had to "really" be careful so as to avoid an accident. but after carrying them and training diligently that fear/feeling subsided. So to throw in my .02 I don't think it is unwise to start with a SFA pistol especially as they are very simple to use and easy to learn to shoot, but if you are more comfortable with a hammer fired pistol that is absolutely fine, but remember that accidentally holstering a cocked DA pistol / SA pistol off safe is more dangerous than holstering a SFA pistol. From the description of your uses of the pistol it sounds like you will be equally well served by either platform just remember to use good and safe gun handling all around.
... this is exactly the attitude I'd like to see done away with in the gun world. People speak as if there are two classes of people handling guns, safe people and negligent people. It's much closer to the truth to say that people are people. Part of being a person means you are vulnerable to screwing up. If that screwup happens to involve a firearm, the odds of severe injury or death are pretty high.
New and inexperienced gun owners will never realize this if people don't discuss these issues sensibly.
Excellent post, JDub. We're all trained to carefully drive cars and drink milk, yet accidents happen and glasses get spilled. People who think that they can train away things like attention span and other shortcomings of the human condition are only kidding themselves.
I have been debating the pros & cons of the different systems for 30 years now. It is a double edged sword. The easier the first shot is, the less safe the gun is generally. I thougt the hk p7 was going to be the solution, but ended up with a sig 226 da/sa. Lately I'm leaning towards a s&w m&p with safety. The problem with safeties is they tend to be on when you think they are off & vice versa. If I make the change, there will be lots of dry firing to build muscle memory for flicking that safety off.:cool:
Bottom line, if you're really uncomfortable with a striker fired system, buy a SIG P229 or HK P30 and have at it.
Then, find someone at your club who will let you get some trigger time on a Glock or M&P and see if it's something you could get used to.
This is how safes get filled........... :cool:
To the OP, your concerns are part of what prompted me to buy the M&P with thumb safety.
I'm not trying to pick on you here, but this is exactly the attitude I'd like to see done away with in the gun world. People speak as if there are two classes of people handling guns, safe people and negligent people. It's much closer to the truth to say that people are people. Part of being a person means you are vulnerable to screwing up. If that screwup happens to involve a firearm, the odds of severe injury or death are pretty high. The next ND/AD could be ours. It can happen to me. Therefore it behooves me to remain switched on when handling firearms and to consciously develop thoughtful handling and carry practices based on a realistic assessment of the weapon I am dealing with and the potential vulnerabilities it brings to the table.
This is a good point. I did not mean to make it sound like the OP is somehow predisposed to having an accident.
As a parallel example, I ride motorcycles. I've always been told, and always tell people, 'it's not if you crash, but [I]when{/I] you crash.' And I believe that. For that reason I gear up every time i ride, no matter what, and I try to never get complacent while riding.
I guess the best that anyone can ask is that you do your best to be responsible at all times, whether we're talking about guns, cars, motorcycles, parenting, or working your day job. If it makes a person feel better (or safer) to get a particular type of firearm, or a different type of motorcycle, car, or what have you, then I guess they're just trying to do what's best for them. In relation to the OP i guess he's just trying to gauge his own cautiousness, and that's fair.
a friend recently reholstered his da/sa & forgot to decock it. I just happened to notice.:eek: A da only sig might be the least accident prone system.
John_Wayne777
03-26-10, 21:40
This is a good point. I did not mean to make it sound like the OP is somehow predisposed to having an accident.
As a parallel example, I ride motorcycles. I've always been told, and always tell people, 'it's not if you crash, but [I]when{/I] you crash.' And I believe that. For that reason I gear up every time i ride, no matter what, and I try to never get complacent while riding.
That's exactly the right mindset for dealing with firearms, IMO. We shouldn't live in abject fear of the inanimate object, but we should realize that we're playing with deadly weapons.
I have steered relatively inexperienced shooters to striker fired handguns with a 5.5 pound trigger and no manual safety, but I did so while taking great pains to explain the drawbacks of that arrangement. I told them it was possible to carry safely, but only if they dedicated themselves to doing it safely. I tend to speak up about it quite a bit online because I've seen so little recognition of it either in discussions like this or on the range with other shooters.
Sometimes what I'm saying is old hat to people who know better...but every now and then I get messages from people saying that they'd never heard anything like that before and that the guys at the gunstore told them there was nothing to worry about. That only encourages me to whip out the soap box and preach. :D
Glock (along with S&W and springfield) has a 70-80% of the LE market, something like that? So hundreds of thousands of striker guns are carried and holstered/unholstered daily. Maybe even a million between CCW, Cops, competition shooters, etc.
100,000 cops aren't shooting themselves in the locker room at the start of every shift.
Personally, I wouldn't worry about it.
Can bad things happen with guns if you aren't careful? You betcha. Just like a chain saw! I've got some good pictures of a couple instances just as described - draw string stuck in holster... gun in with it... boom!
However, all the dangers of a striker are the same w/ revolvers. "Eeek, Glocks don't have a safety." Neither does my S&W 342 but I've never squeezed the trigger on either of them w/ out intending to. Ya know?
Wait until you have a 1911 and you carefully holster it with your thumb on the hammer... then an hr later you realize the safety is off from rubbing against your holster or whatever.
Some people don't like glocks because they don't have a safety or are striker fired or they are ugly or whatever... other people like to carry a 1911 but try to manually lower the hammer on their 1911 and carry it around like that because they don't like to carry cocked and locked.
Bottom line - You have to know your gear, how it works, how to safely use it. Gain comfort and confidence through using it, carrying it and training with it. You'll make adjustments, buy a million holsters, throw most of them in a box in the bottom of a closet before settling on something that works for you.
John_Wayne777
03-27-10, 01:11
100,000 cops aren't shooting themselves in the locker room at the start of every shift.
No, but every year people do end up being shot because they either have a blonde moment or an equipment issue when using a firearm with a 5.5 pound trigger, no manual safety, and a disassembly procedure that requires a trigger pull. Yes, people have managed to shoot themselves with all sorts of weapons, but those with relatively light, short travel triggers tend to be less forgiving of stupidity than others on the market.
However, all the dangers of a striker are the same w/ revolvers. "Eeek, Glocks don't have a safety." Neither does my S&W 342 but I've never squeezed the trigger on either of them w/ out intending to. Ya know?
Glocks and revolvers are similar in that they don't have a safety. They are incredibly dissimilar in the characteristics of their trigger. It's a chihuahua vs. rottweiler comparison. It can be accurately claimed that both are dogs, but there's some pretty big differences in those dogs that a potential owner should carefully consider. A revolver's heavier trigger leaves more room for error. It's certainly not infallible, but as a guy who has personally avoided being shot because the lady officer whom I startled had a DA pull on her P226 sidearm, I've learned that the DA pull really does give a larger margin of error than something like a Glock or M&P would have.
Wait until you have a 1911 and you carefully holster it with your thumb on the hammer... then an hr later you realize the safety is off from rubbing against your holster or whatever.
I carried a 1911 with ambi safeties for years. I only had one occasion where the safety was deactivated, and that was because of a broken holster. The plunger spring should be strong enough to keep the safety in place absent a deliberate effort to disengage it. If it isn't on somebody's 1911, that would be sufficient cause to have it checked out by a competent smith. That's unacceptable.
I've told many students handling a firearm is like handling a snake.
If you know what you're doing you'll be okay but the second you don't pay attention or stop respecting it, you're asking for trouble.
However, all the dangers of a striker are the same w/ revolvers. "Eeek, Glocks don't have a safety." Neither does my S&W 342 but I've never squeezed the trigger on either of them w/ out intending to. Ya know?
Sigh... this is such a bad comparison and it's sad how many times I've seen it written. The trigger weight, feel, travel, cycling are completely different between a revolver and a striker fired weapon. Apples and oranges. There's a reason the term "glock leg" exists, but "revolver leg" doesn't.
OP - the mere fact that you posted this thread shows that you're a little uncomfortable with striker fired weapons. I say get a revolver or a da/sa auto with exposed hammer. You should be confident with your firearm.
One of the reasons I don't go to other forums much anymore is because when this conversation comes up you get the usual infallible keyboard commando ninjas jumping on your throat with their "keep your booger off the bang switch" idiocy.
I carry a G19 AWIB, and being that I used to carry a C&L USPc, if Glock had a beautiful 1911 thumb safety on it (I never handled a Cominolli but it doesn't look as easy to use as the aforementioned) I would most probably have gone that way (the M&P with the safety didn't speak to me). Since Glock doesn't, I use a NY-1 trigger spring (with "-" connector) and it makes me feel better, but even still I have a ritual that I always use: visually check inside the holster, sweep my weak pinkie in the holster and the trigger channel to tactilely clear it, insert and secure the gun in the holster taking care to not sweep fingers, and only then do I put the holstered gun inside my pantaloons and secure it. At the end of the day I just take the holstered gun out as a unit.
A slow, deliberate reholster, even in an OWB holster I think is paramount, and I even do the low speed high drag thing of looking at the holster and slowly holstering (I know some teach to keep your eyes and situational awareness up as one re-holsters). And actually, I haven't worked up to reholstering AWIB yet, and when I've taken a class I've just used a strong side OWB holster at the 3 o'clock.
But I've tried to push the envelope using an empty gun to see how I can accidentally activate the striker while using both the NY-1 "-" and stock trigger set ups and I was able to twirl the gun like a cowboy with my index finger in the trigger guard and bounced the gun on its trigger using my index finger and the weight of the gun and the striker would not drop (again empty gun of course). I've stuffed it hard and in a nonchalant manner in the holster as well as in my waist band Mexican style over and over and I didn't get the striker to drop. I did get the striker to drop when I let the gun drop into my pants while Mexican carrying and I intentionally grabbed the gun through the pants into the trigger guard while using the stock S spring and stock connector. Again with an empty gun and the gun mexican carried I sat and stood, I've gyrated and crawled and twisted around in all sorts of ways, as if I had the fits and still I couldn't get the striker to drop, even the stock set up. I did the same think with an AIWB and 4 oclock IWB holster and as expected still no problem. And for the thick headed potentially out there, I definitely do not recommend that you do this with a loaded gun.
So I feel comfy about IWB and AWIB with the G19 in a holster, but even then I choose to use the NY1 "-" trigger set up (I like the feel better anyway) but I totally agree that a sweep down safety only adds to the safety margin.
And again, reholstering is arguably the most dangerous thing you can do especially with AWIB carry, and even with a heavier trigger if something gets in the trigger guard and you holster against resistance I think you can get the gun to go off so the conclusion is still "you better be very careful and deliberate while you re-holster (especially with a striker gun)".
And by the way, a sweep down safety still doesn't make you immune to mistakes, as that one cocky dude with his promo video on you tube (flying a plane and doing escrima and doing mag reloads) blasted his leg after apparently reholstering a 1911 during some training (I think he was SWAT).
But I don't agree that "plenty of people don't get hurt so don't worry about it" is a good attitude. I think we have to worry about it, actually worry about it quite a bit, so that we are ever vigilant and safe so that we don't shoot ourselves or, worse yet, someone else.
Sigh... this is such a bad comparison and it's sad how many times I've seen it written. The trigger weight, feel, travel, cycling are completely different between a revolver and a striker fired weapon. Apples and oranges. There's a reason the term "glock leg" exists, but "revolver leg" doesn't.
OP - the mere fact that you posted this thread shows that you're a little uncomfortable with striker fired weapons. I say get a revolver or an da/sa auto with exposed hammer. You should be confident with your firearm.
Exactly.
I am always flabbergasted when people compare a Glock trigger, especially a stock trigger, with a double action revolver trigger, the first being a short travel 5.5 lb trigger, and the latter being a long travel 12-14lb trigger, not to mention the fact that most revolvers have a hammer.
I had a Glock 30 45 and I carried it for 4 years with the Clip that attaches to the rear of the slide .I never Had and issues snagging On My clothes ,I was always position with my trigger finger straight across the trigger guard when putting it in My pants.
But one day I remove My Pistol to lay in on top of my safe and some how(Me not paying attention ) I shot a hole in the Floor,that One slip up made me rethink the Glock as a conceal carry weapon.
After some searching I went with a HK45 compact and Have had not issues with the safety,it fit me so well that it was easy to dis- engage the safety. for me I like a Safety on the out side <but others go with the Glock with no problems. But for me I just Like having it with a external Safety
Sigh... this is such a bad comparison and it's sad how many times I've seen it written. The trigger weight, feel, travel, cycling are completely different between a revolver and a striker fired weapon. Apples and oranges. There's a reason the term "glock leg" exists, but "revolver leg" doesn't.
True - not a perfectly analogous comparison... but both weapons will fire when you pull the trigger. Guaranteed. Whether you pull it, or the pull tab from your gortex does it. Neither is inherently safer. I've seen ADs with revolvers and ADs with single action autos. If you're brain isn't engaged and/or you don't know your gear, you'll get a boom when you want a click eventually. That's the point I was making.
True - not a perfectly analogous comparison... but both weapons will fire when you pull the trigger. Guaranteed. Whether you pull it, or the pull tab from your gortex does it. Neither is inherently safer. I've seen ADs with revolvers and ADs with single action autos. If you're brain isn't engaged and/or you don't know your gear, you'll get a boom when you want a click eventually. That's the point I was making.
I agree that if you're not careful you can have an AD/ND regardless of what kind of firearm you own. My problem with striker fired weapons is that they strike me more as a cocked and unlocked firearm. You don't feel the cycling of any mechanisms. You squeeze the trigger and once you hit the breaking stage, it fires. With a revolver or DA semi-auto, you feel the hammer camming back, and/or cylinder cycling, during the trigger pull. CZ's even have a slight camming action with the hammer cocked. To me, this is an added safety feature as you have a better idea of exactly when the gun is going to fire. If you're accidentally squeezing the trigger under stress, you'll feel the camming and know to back off - no second chances with a striker fired weapon.
a poster indicated you have all day to re-holster- not always true- rushing to the aid of an injured person,reacting to other events,etc may result in speed increase and risk of nd same. while I do not have stats, since the widespread issue of glocks police nd's have increased. but to some extent i'st like calling labradors the most dangerous dog- more are bitten by them than any other breed, because more people have them than any other breed
I'm glad the op asked this question. Good safety reminder.
If you're accidentally squeezing the trigger under stress, you'll feel the camming and know to back off - no second chances with a striker fired weapon.
This is the wrong way to look at safety issues.
You so stressed that you are doing something wrong (pressing the trigger when you shouldn't be) but yet you will have the presence of mind to stop doing the wrong thing because you sense the subtle difference in trigger pressure? You are alternately one scatter-brained guy and then one cool cat.
Don't rely on mechanical gun functions to make you safe, only you and your training can make you safe. Follow the 4 gun safety rules 24/7, 365 days a year. If you have dingle dangles on your jacket or retention straps on your holster that get in the trigger guard, get rid of them.
When you have a gun in your hand or on your person, you now have the same life or death power that society gives surgeons or airline pilots. You need to have the same focus and professionalism that surgeons and pilots have. Pilots don't ignore some of their safety checks because the plane has an autopilot. And we shouldn't relax or get distracted because we have an external safety and an 8 lbs trigger.
Gringop
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