M&P9 w/ Apex Kit or HK P30 LEM v2

[milosz]

Sold a Glock I just couldn't love, leaving me with only an early M&P9 in polymer.

Love the way the M&P9 feels in the hand, but the trigger has always been pretty bad. Light, but a spongy break and extremely weak reset. I had been planning on sending it to David Bowie for his trigger work but I'm not entirely comfortable shortening a SFA-style trigger without a safety (and the M&P safety is in a terrible position, IMO).

The Apex kit is welcome news (sounds like it solves my issues), so now I'm trying to decide between a new M&P9 from Grant/G&R with the Apex parts installed or a P30 LEM (v2 at first until I could find someone to change the springs or DIY, unless v4s hit the market soon). Both models fit my hand well, but I've never shot either specific setup and probably won't get a chance before purchase. I have shot my father's P30L, which was nice despite the 20# DA pull (currently off at Bill Springfield's shop getting a trigger job).

Uses are range/IDPA/classes. Cost isn't a factor on this one, they're both in my ballpark.

So, all things being equal, would you choose one over the other?

[Rated21R]

interesting. i have looked at both as well. i am planning on going to shoot some this weekend, that being said i have yet to find a place that has a P30 to shoot.

[m98evolution]

I actually just sold my HK P30 V2 last week because I liked my M&P9 so much after I installed the Apex kit. While the P30 felt great to hold, I just liked the short crisp trigger on the M&P/Apex. The LEM system does take a little getting used to and I decided to streamline my weapon system to keep my training consistent.

[orionz06]

One over the other, no price considered, two weeks ago would have been the P30L. After putting the Apex SB in my M&P Pro, I feel that the allure of the HK is fading a bit, but I cannot be as objective as the magazine prices between the two sour me a bit.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I would lean towards the P30 personally, but I am bias. The magazine prices between the M&P and HK P30 are relatively the same for me. I was paying on average ~$30.00 per M&P mag and have been paying $31.00 for my P30 mags (I now have twenty). So if you shop around, the mag prices are quite similar; however, the initial cost of the pistol is on average $250 different.

Also, just so you know, the detail stripping of the P30 requires an "Engineering degree, not a BS, but an advanced Engineering degree," ToddG's words. I have several P30s and absolutely love them and am fortunate enough to have the Armorer's Manual so hopefully, I'll never have to use the manual.

[orionz06]

My basis was ~$40 vs $20 for magazine prices. I have an engineering degree, so detail stripping was not a concern :D:D

[gtmtnbiker98]

My basis was ~$40 vs $20 for magazine prices. I have an engineering degree, so detail stripping was not a concern :D:DBut is it an advanced degree?:p

[ABdriver]

I have shot both. For me it comes down to this fact. If you were a heavy Glock shooter before I would lean towards the M&P. If a Sig shooter lean towards the P30. Reasoning is the P30 has a very long slide release that will make you change your grip slightly if you were a Glock shooter. Shooting the Glock usually folks snug the gun down deep in their hand with thumbs pretty high on the gun. This will drop the slide on the P30 when the mag is empty. That with the slightly higher bore axis will make a former Glock shooter more comfortable with the M&P. While the Sig guy is used to a higher bore axis and generally do not ride their thumbs up high on the gun. The P30 will spoil you with the mag release. Way faster than button on left hand side of gun found on many handguns. Try using strong side middle finger and work the release super fast and no moving your grip. On the negative side H&K put some pretty weak sights on the gun and if you are going to carry some night sights may be required. Overall, two great guns. I like them both. I always recommend the gun that feels better in the hand. If you can hit with the gun that is what really matters.

[G34Shooter]

The Apex kit is welcome news (sounds like it solves my issues), so now I'm trying to decide between a new M&P9 from Grant/G&R with the Apex parts installed



I'm in the same boat and I just emailed Grant to see if he can send me a California Legal full size M&P 9mm with the Apex kit installed. :D

[gtmtnbiker98]

I have shot both. For me it comes down to this fact. If you were a heavy Glock shooter before I would lean towards the M&P. If a Sig shooter lean towards the P30. Reasoning is the P30 has a very long slide release that will make you change your grip slightly if you were a Glock shooter. Shooting the Glock usually folks snug the gun down deep in their hand with thumbs pretty high on the gun. This will drop the slide on the P30 when the mag is empty. That with the slightly higher bore axis will make a former Glock shooter more comfortable with the M&P. While the Sig guy is used to a higher bore axis and generally do not ride their thumbs up high on the gun. The P30 will spoil you with the mag release. Way faster than button on left hand side of gun found on many handguns. Try using strong side middle finger and work the release super fast and no moving your grip. On the negative side H&K put some pretty weak sights on the gun and if you are going to carry some night sights may be required. Overall, two great guns. I like them both. I always recommend the gun that feels better in the hand. If you can hit with the gun that is what really matters.Well said.

[John_Wayne777]

A trigger job on the M&P will generally involve modifying the sear in such a fashion that the engagement of the sear happens further back in the trigger pull. The Apex sear will do the same thing. The overall travel of the trigger remains the same, but the point at which the pulled trigger engages the sear happens further back in the arc of the trigger's movement.

The Apex kit will yield a trigger that has a longer takeup than stock, a shorter reset than stock, a bit more distinctive reset than stock, a bit faster reset than stock, and the trigger will break lighter than stock. Personally speaking, I prefer the Massachusetts trigger spring to the Apex spring because the S&W spring has a heavier weight pull, but the Apex spring is much better than the stock spring in terms of helping reset.

I've spent a bunch of time chasing trigger characteristics on the M&P over the years that I have owned the platform. I've tried different trigger jobs, different factory trigger arrangements (Pro and PT.com guns) and I've tried the Apex offerings.

In the end, while I really like the nicer triggers, none of it is truly necessary on the M&P. They can be used in stock configuration with great accuracy and speed.

[Magsz]

JW,

I do agree although i will say that for me, my splits became noticeably faster once i installed my apex sear which had nothing to do with the pull weight.

The huge amount of overtravel in the stock M&P trigger is something i found i personally did not like.

Before my apex sears i didnt know the difference but post Apex install i can probably NEVER go back to a stock M&P setup.

To address the original question, i personally desperately want to try an LEM P30 but i find myself questioning why. The only reason that i can come up with is that its something different to "play" with. I end up talking myself out of it each and every time it comes down to buying the darned thing for a few reasons.

1. The gun does nothing for me that the M&P doesnt already do.
2. The gun is significantly more expensive than an M&P
3. There are more sight options available, namely my favorites, warren tac sights for the M&P.
4. Lower bore axis on the M&P, not really a huge deal but it does help.
5. Readily available parts.
6. After market support in both the holster and accessories market as well as "pimp my ride parts" such as the apex line of parts.

For me, these reasons are the deal breakers. I simply cannot justify the purchase of the P30. If funds were unlimited i would spend the money and get the pistol but as it stands 800 bones will equate to either two training classes or 4000 rounds of 9mm.

In your case, the 300 dollar difference would be better spent on 1500 rounds of 9mm in my opinion.

[milosz]

I have shot both. For me it comes down to this fact. If you were a heavy Glock shooter before I would lean towards the M&P. If a Sig shooter lean towards the P30. Reasoning is the P30 has a very long slide release that will make you change your grip slightly if you were a Glock shooter. Shooting the Glock usually folks snug the gun down deep in their hand with thumbs pretty high on the gun. This will drop the slide on the P30 when the mag is empty. That with the slightly higher bore axis will make a former Glock shooter more comfortable with the M&P. While the Sig guy is used to a higher bore axis and generally do not ride their thumbs up high on the gun. The P30 will spoil you with the mag release. Way faster than button on left hand side of gun found on many handguns. Try using strong side middle finger and work the release super fast and no moving your grip. On the negative side H&K put some pretty weak sights on the gun and if you are going to carry some night sights may be required. Overall, two great guns. I like them both. I always recommend the gun that feels better in the hand. If you can hit with the gun that is what really matters.

This hits on something I hadn't really considered - when I shoot Sigs, they never lock back on empty. I have big hands and started shooting on 1911s, so I wind up riding the slide lock. Sounds like I'd be doing the same on the HK.

[Magsz]

The P30's slide lock is nowhere near as horrifically positioned as the sigs.

You're going to have to test it out for yourself and see if the gun functions with your chosen grip style.

[G34Shooter]

Hopefully I will have my M&P 9mm with Apex goodies ordered from Grant today :D

[spr1]

question on the LEM.... How does the reset distance compare to the DA version
P30?

[nickdrak]

While the HK P30 is an excellent pistol and the LEM trigger aint bad, I dont think there is a polymer pistol on the market that has a better "duty/carry" trigger than an M&P with the full Apex DCAEK kit installed.

The fact that the M&P cost nearly half of what the HK does is a bonus any way you look at it as it translates into more mags, ammo, etc in the end.

I just picked up my new LE (SKU#309301LE) M&P9 that I ordered from Buds (Police Supply) which came with the new M&P stamped 3-dot sights (non-tritium sight). If I was into 3-dot sights I would have ordered it with night sights and kept them. I like the flat vertical facing edge on them for doing one handed manipulations off of your belt, holster, etc. and they also have a nice wide, slightly rounded bottom "U" style rear notch, and a partially serrated face on the rear sight. I removed them and installed a set of Warren Tactical tritium 2-dot sights on mine.

[G34Shooter]

Hopefully I will have my M&P 9mm with Apex goodies ordered from Grant today :D


OK, maybe today :crossingfingers: :o

[TehLlama]

Living with the same brown truck anxiety here!