View Full Version : Would you send a lower back for this?
Heavy Metal
03-31-10, 22:06
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/knightsdamage2-1.jpg
:rolleyes:
Found on some other AR site.
Wow, I'll bet that is about as big a scratch as a poppy seed.
Gran't I know you have to deal with nit-pickers like this regularly. You have my sympathy.
Edit: Belmont's smaller image substituted for formating improvement.
Nothing a can of Krylon wasn't going to fix anyway.
Shrink the picture a little so we can get a little more perspective. From what I see so far I probably would. I don't mind putting marks on my gun but I don't want to buy them that way.
i think i'd get over it. if i noticed it in the shop i'd ask for a different one though.
Belmont31R
03-31-10, 22:52
Yes unless its being sold as a second or otherwise discounted for being damaged.
Why pay full price for a damaged item? If I opened the box to a new TV, and there was a scratch on it Id want another one. If I bought a car, and did the inspection before leaving the dealer I wouldn't accept the sale if the car had a ding or scratch. If the item is being sold as new its the sellers responsibility to ensure their customer receives a product in new condition. Not damaged. Not messed up in any way. Basic customer service applicable to any market.
Heavy Metal
03-31-10, 22:58
I would shrink the picture if I could but I am not the one hosting it.
You realize the big round thing in the middle of the pic is thre front takedown pin?
That nick is about a milimeter in size.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I was simply trying to see how bad it stood out without having the rifle 2 inches from your face.
I agree with Belmont.
And.....I just saw at the bottom of your thread that you found it on another site. I was focused on the pic and not the words. Reading is fundamental.
KentuckyWindage
04-01-10, 01:37
No, touch it up and shoot it.
PdxMotoxer
04-01-10, 01:46
It depends on the brand of lower and what did i pay for it.
I mean if it's el'cheapo and i got it for a song and a dance i should expect
something like that or lack of quality control.
If it's a major brand and i paid top dollar then yes i kinda expect some level of quality control.
I mean what ever happened to only putting your name on products that you are proud
to represent of deam it worthy to have your name on it.
What if you paid $99.00 for a lower and it had a chip/mark or bare metal like that on it.
Well what if you saved for a long time then paid $500 and custom ordered a lower
and it came to you and had that chip/mark of bare metal on it.
YMMV but i'm just sayin....
EzGoingKev
04-01-10, 01:59
If it's a major brand and i paid top dollar then yes i kinda expect some level of quality control.
I read the original post.
That pic is of a brand new major brand rifle that the owner paid top dollar and then some. When he took his brand new rifle out of the box this is what he found.Some might not send it back, but for what I am guessing he paid for it I would bitch about it too.
Good news for the owner though. The major brand told him they would replace it for him.
PdxMotoxer
04-01-10, 02:13
Right On for that "major brand named" manufacturer.
I mean even Kel-Tec stands behind the finishes on their slides.
but like i said if i pay kel-tec prices i expect a little "fluff and buff".
But if i pay Kahr prices i expect a better fit and finish. ;)
(sorry those were the only brand names that came to mind.. YMMV)
On the bright side the dealer could take it back and sell it with the blemish as "operator tested" lol.
EzGoingKev
04-01-10, 08:12
But if i pay Kahr prices i expect a better fit and finish. ;)
I think he paid a lot more than Kahr prices.
On the bright side the dealer could take it back and sell it with the blemish as "operator tested" lol.
From his post the dealer blew him off. He then contacted the manufacturer directly and they told him they would take care of it for him.
Belmont31R
04-01-10, 09:35
The lower is a Knight's Armament, and the dealer is a large one in UT. He paid $750 for it.
I do agree if the lower is 75 bucks or whatever. Probably not worth the hassle. For $750 it better be in NEW condition.
OP- I uploaded the picture to my Photobucket, and resized it. You can copy my image link so we're not looking at a ginormous picture..... http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/knightsdamage2-1.jpg
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj245/BM31R/knightsdamage2-1.jpg
I would shrink the picture if I could but I am not the one hosting it.
You realize the big round thing in the middle of the pic is thre front takedown pin?
That nick is about a milimeter in size.
Right. That scratch is most likely the size of bullet tip and no one would actually see it.
So no, I wouldn't send it back.
C4
Heavy Metal
04-01-10, 10:02
The merest dab of Birchwood-Casey aluminum black and no one would ever know it was there.
Frankly, I would not worry about such a small nick.
I guess when it's someone's first or second AR, they tend to get pickier.
Me? I would not raise an eyebrow. If it really bothered me, it would go into the oven with a coat of Norrell's. Norell's will fix a world of F-ups like a purple Bushmaster lower with a far larger scratch on the fence around the mag release button.
SnackCracker
04-01-10, 15:50
WOW! My Noveske "Free Blem 2nd" lower has NOTHING like that! In fact, I can't find anything wrong with it at all, and Noveske still said it didn't meet their standards.
I guess that just shows how some standards are much higher than others.
Sure, there is no reason the lower (pictured above) is not functionally perfect, but the simple fact that they let that out the door as a new first rate lower, might be indicative to their overall QC. I mean, come on... it's raw aluminum exposed. They didn't even bother to refinish over the scratch.
Yes, I'd send it back if I paid MSRP for it. It should be "factory new" and unblemished.
I bought a $69 STAG lower last weekend that was sold as seconds & it's greatest flaw is a shallow stamping.
I could care less about the stamping but that is because I paid $69 for it & I knew it was sold as a second.
I expect perfect fit ,finish & function. I don't buy it or it goes back if I did. If you want top dollar, provide a top quality product.
no.. i wouldnt sent it back. understanding that perfect finish is rare, i'm not at all surprised or bothered when i get what others would call a "blem."
i know theres a couple of guys who seem to have some shooting experience around here that'll call bullshit, but the fact of the matter is- if you care about non-functionality finish issues, i find it hard to believe you can do much with the gun.
i suggest you take your favorite rifle, unload it, hold it out at arms length, turn it on it's side, and drop it from shoulder hight onto gravel. if you pick it up and immediately check for scratches in your anodize, repeat the procedure until you seriously dont care anymore.
then- run some drills that put your weapon on the ground. low-crawl (REAL low-crawl), do some rushes, transition to sidearm while prone in the gravel, shoot from cover... etc. in other words, actually train with your gun. and do it at gunfight speed.
you CANNOT train to gunfight and somehow preserve the finish on your gun.
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!! :eek: Burn it.....
Dont you hate it when you buy a gun for a safe queen and its gets scratched up in the safe? You just cant win....
:rolleyes: A q-tip and some aluminum black and its gone. Geeze, grow a pair dude....
let me remind everyone that this site is about guns for gunfighting. you certainly dont have to be a gunfighter to play here- most of us are not "gunfighters." i am not a gunfighter. but you DO need to keep in perspective that we're all supposed to be here to further our knowledge of the weapon platform for the purpose of bettering our gunfighting ability.
if you're a bench-rester, collector, finger-****er, whatever- that's cool. but do not presume to tell somebody else to waste their time, effort, money, and aggravation, and in doing so effectively bash the manufacturer, if your position has jack shit to do with gunfighting. preach that shit on THR.
If that little scratch bugged him, that guy would freak if he saw my guns...:eek::D
Belmont31R
04-01-10, 18:08
no.. i wouldnt sent it back. understanding that perfect finish is rare, i'm not at all surprised or bothered when i get what others would call a "blem."
i know theres a couple of guys who seem to have some shooting experience around here that'll call bullshit, but the fact of the matter is- if you care about non-functionality finish issues, i find it hard to believe you can do much with the gun.
i suggest you take your favorite rifle, unload it, hold it out at arms length, turn it on it's side, and drop it from shoulder hight onto gravel. if you pick it up and immediately check for scratches in your anodize, repeat the procedure until you seriously dont care anymore.
then- run some drills that put your weapon on the ground. low-crawl (REAL low-crawl), do some rushes, transition to sidearm while prone in the gravel, shoot from cover... etc. in other words, actually train with your gun. and do it at gunfight speed.
you CANNOT train to gunfight and somehow preserve the finish on your gun.
So you'd pay for a brand new car, and wouldnt care if there was a fender dented in, a big scratch down the side, chipped window, torn seat, etc? A car is for driving after all.
I wouldn't care if it was sold as blemished/damaged. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy it at all. I just would not pay full price for a product labeled as NEW when its already been damaged. Yeah its just a little chip but I wouldnt pay top dollar for anything that was damaged, and sold as new. Its shitty for any retailer, no matter what they are selling, to have customers paying full price for items they believe to be in new condition only to receive a 2nd rate damaged item.
Not everyone has the same standards when it comes to being a consumer. I don't pay full price for damaged goods. Period. If a retailer wants to knock some off the price then that is one thing.
would i pay for a brand new HMMWV if it had minor cosmetic blemishes that didn't effect function? If there's two in the lot, and one is cosmetically perfect, i'll take the cosmetically perfect one- if not, then sure. a dent or a scratch in a vehicle i'm going to beat the shit out of doesnt matter the least bit.
but let me counter you with equally appropriate questions:
would you buy a rock with dirt on it?
would you buy a pocket without lint in it?
would you buy ice cream if the container had a dent in it?
would you use a rubber if the wrapper was wrinkled?
would you shake a stick at an angry dog on the other side of a fence while playing twister naked with a REALLY hot chick in a snow storm, if you were guaranteed of winning a new barbecue?
would i pay for a brand new HMMWV if it had minor cosmetic blemishes that didn't effect function? If there's two in the lot, and one is cosmetically perfect, i'll take the cosmetically perfect one- if not, then sure. a dent or a scratch in a vehicle i'm going to beat the shit out of doesnt matter the least bit.
Thats funny, when I bought my H1 the guy gave my $100 off cause the steering pump was leaking...
Thats funny, when I bought my H1 the guy gave my $100 off cause the steering pump was leaking...
yea.. i should add that i'd definitely buy the one with the dent, if he took $50 off the bill or offered me a free steak or something.
Belmont31R
04-01-10, 23:12
would i pay for a brand new HMMWV if it had minor cosmetic blemishes that didn't effect function? If there's two in the lot, and one is cosmetically perfect, i'll take the cosmetically perfect one- if not, then sure. a dent or a scratch in a vehicle i'm going to beat the shit out of doesnt matter the least bit.
but let me counter you with equally appropriate questions:
would you buy a rock with dirt on it?
would you buy a pocket without lint in it?
would you buy ice cream if the container had a dent in it?
would you use a rubber if the wrapper was wrinkled?
would you shake a stick at an angry dog on the other side of a fence while playing twister naked with a REALLY hot chick in a snow storm, if you were guaranteed of winning a new barbecue?
Funny. :rolleyes:
Like I said we all have different standards as consumers. I doubt most reasonable people would accept paying full price for damaged items being sold as new. I guess the new cool thing with some in the crowd is to boast about accepting 2nd rate products because they are so cool it doesn't bother them. They are such hardcore enthusiasts their guns all look like they spent a couple deployments being banged around in a truck and humped up and down billy goat hills. Its like a boy scout merit badge paying $750 for a NEW lower, and finding it comes with a chunk of metal missing. You can run online and tell all your friends how cool it was your new pricey item comes pre-battle damaged.....:cool:
I understand that this thread was meant as a trolling type of thread aimed at certain people who discussed a similar topic here before. Having said that, I'll take a stab at tying to offer a reasonable point of view.
As mentioned, its funny how companies like Noveske can offer blemished lowers at a significant discount and many of the blems that I have seen / used the blem cannot even be found. I would hope that the seller would try to work with the buyer. I don't think anyone should have to settle for anything less when there are companies out there who pride themselves in quality and can maintain a standard while being successful, not at the price of the consumer. Holding companies to a high standard is not nitpicking, especially when there are those companies out there who can meet certain standards and gladly do it.
Customers settling for less is just an easy way for companies to lower standards and push out product for higher profits. Who loses in the end? The consumer. Anyone who understands the business, especially the industry people here, know the profit margins from manufacturer, to distributor, to dealer. The standard can and should be held accountable somewhere prior to the customer. Things do happen and the customer may get an item that should have not made it that far which is no biggie provided a good business, works with a good customer, to come to an equitable resolution.
Well if I need to hold my product to a higher standard, I need to hire more quality control people, buy better tooling, hire better production people......Well boo hoo. There are others out there doing it successfully. If not, simply offer it at a discount price. Why pay 1st rate price for a piece that is substandard, even cosmetically to the one right next to it on the shelf?
let me remind everyone that this site is about guns for gunfighting. you certainly dont have to be a gunfighter to play here- most of us are not "gunfighters." i am not a gunfighter. but you DO need to keep in perspective that we're all supposed to be here to further our knowledge of the weapon platform for the purpose of bettering our gunfighting ability.
if you're a bench-rester, collector, finger-****er, whatever- that's cool. but do not presume to tell somebody else to waste their time, effort, money, and aggravation, and in doing so effectively bash the manufacturer, if your position has jack shit to do with gunfighting. preach that shit on THR.No one is bashing anyone here. Mistakes happen and some things get through the cracks to the customer. It says a lot about a business in how they resolve the issue. I know there are shit head customers, who probably need to be told to take a hike, but to just think that a customer should suck it up and take it up the ass is silly. If you saw that lower with the nick, sitting right next to another exact lower with no blem, which would you purchase?
I consider myself a collector, but mostly an end user. I haul around this platform of weapon for a major part of my working time. Having said that, I shoot the shit out of every rifle I build for myself and I am by no means a bench rest shooter. Many people are shocked at how I use my weapons, considering the price I spend. I just finished a build that was over $2.5K. Perfect cerakote finish, yada, yada, yada. In the last 2 weeks I used it heavily and put more rounds through the rifle than most here probably shoot in several months or more. It is dinged up, shell deflector is nicked to metal, etc, etc, etc..... Does that mean that I would have purchased the upper / lower as a set and paid that much for it, if it was blemished? Hell no. I would have expected to pay a blemished price! I will give my rifles all the battle scars that they need, or pay a fair price for a blem. In the meantime as a customer paying premium prices, I expect a quality product, without defect if I am paying full price, especially when I can get it from other companies out there, who set their standards as high as their customers standards.
rifleman2000
04-02-10, 07:41
Funny. :rolleyes:
Like I said we all have different standards as consumers. I doubt most reasonable people would accept paying full price for damaged items being sold as new. I guess the new cool thing with some in the crowd is to boast about accepting 2nd rate products because they are so cool it doesn't bother them. They are such hardcore enthusiasts their guns all look like they spent a couple deployments being banged around in a truck and humped up and down billy goat hills. Its like a boy scout merit badge paying $750 for a NEW lower, and finding it comes with a chunk of metal missing. You can run online and tell all your friends how cool it was your new pricey item comes pre-battle damaged.....:cool:
Very nicely put.
That nick would not bother me, but I have carried enough beat up guns to make sure I take care of mine. Little nicks happen, but I still get heartburn when someone puts my rifle down on concrete in any way but gently.
rifleman2000
04-02-10, 07:42
let me remind everyone that this site is about guns for gunfighting. you certainly dont have to be a gunfighter to play here- most of us are not "gunfighters." i am not a gunfighter. but you DO need to keep in perspective that we're all supposed to be here to further our knowledge of the weapon platform for the purpose of bettering our gunfighting ability.
if you're a bench-rester, collector, finger-****er, whatever- that's cool. but do not presume to tell somebody else to waste their time, effort, money, and aggravation, and in doing so effectively bash the manufacturer, if your position has jack shit to do with gunfighting. preach that shit on THR.
I think some people have the impression that the purpose of this site is to give a permanent soap box to "experts".
let me remind everyone that this site is about guns for gunfighting. you certainly dont have to be a gunfighter to play here- most of us are not "gunfighters." i am not a gunfighter. but you DO need to keep in perspective that we're all supposed to be here to further our knowledge of the weapon platform for the purpose of bettering our gunfighting ability.
if you're a bench-rester, collector, finger-****er, whatever- that's cool. but do not presume to tell somebody else to waste their time, effort, money, and aggravation, and in doing so effectively bash the manufacturer, if your position has jack shit to do with gunfighting. preach that shit on THR.
Keep in mind though that this issue was imported to this site, not originally posted here.
As a LEO and competitive shooter I have some guns with significant battle and training scars. But as a firearms enthusiast I have some pristine guns and plan to keep them that way. I wouldn't personally care about that nick on a working gun, but I'd be damned upset if it was on, say, my pristine 8 3/8" nickel plated S&W Model 27-2.
For all we know this was purchased as a cornerstone piece in someone's collection. For that use the blem would be an issue. If it's going to be used as a working gun, not so much. Slamming someone else for how they intend to use an expensive product seems counterproductive and elitist. JMO, YMMV :)
For all we know this was purchased as a cornerstone piece in someone's collection. For that use the blem would be an issue. If it's going to be used as a working gun, not so much. Slamming someone else for how they intend to use an expensive product seems counterproductive and elitist. JMO, YMMV :)
who did i slam? reread my post.
when somebody posts a picture of a "blemish" in a gun, and says "should i send this back?" they've essentially answered the question simply by asking it. if you need to ask- then hell no, it doesnt matter the least bit. if you're a collector, looking for (for some crazy reason) a pristine example of a gun that isn't normaly pristine to begin with- then you don't need to get online to ask "should i send this back?" now do you? you're going to have your own personal and totally unique criteria for what you're looking for, and whats acceptable.
EzGoingKev
04-02-10, 13:04
I can see it now - the newest boom in AR's will be someone selling "distressed AR's" so you can by an AR that looks like it spent a year or two or three in the shit. People are buying pants, boots, jackets, hats, etc like that like crazy so that it looks like they either work for or living or actually went out and did fun/crazy things that left their clothes looking like that.
Right there I got the name of the company "In The Shit Firearms"
Posers will love it. The new generation of posts will be complaining that they just took their new "distressed AR" today and when they took out of the box it only had one mark on it when the one they looked was much beat up a lot more than this one and should they send it back.
Then the follow up will be how great "In The Shit" was to deal with. The CS guy apologized and said they would take care of it right away AND send me two fake stick on genuine SOF Afghanistan operator beard kits to go with it.
It's all about perspective and end use. If it's sold "AS NEW," it better be.
On the other hand, if it was returned with that, why expect a full refund, Hmmm?
The problem is that the general public wants it BOTH ways, and the retailer to suck up and ask, May I please be abused some more?
You wonder why some folks in retail seem less than cooperative when confronted with this sort of stuff. On the other hand, the vendors who offer the best service don't have the cheapest prices, either.
You WILL pay for that level of service, nobody's in business to go broke.
Hey, maybe the blem lowers should be marked like that, same as tires?
BLEM
LockenLoad
04-02-10, 13:24
Funny. :rolleyes:
Like I said we all have different standards as consumers. I doubt most reasonable people would accept paying full price for damaged items being sold as new. I guess the new cool thing with some in the crowd is to boast about accepting 2nd rate products because they are so cool it doesn't bother them. They are such hardcore enthusiasts their guns all look like they spent a couple deployments being banged around in a truck and humped up and down billy goat hills. Its like a boy scout merit badge paying $750 for a NEW lower, and finding it comes with a chunk of metal missing. You can run online and tell all your friends how cool it was your new pricey item comes pre-battle damaged.....:cool:
LMFAO VERY WELL SAID
Funny. :rolleyes:
Like I said we all have different standards as consumers. I doubt most reasonable people would accept paying full price for damaged items being sold as new. I guess the new cool thing with some in the crowd is to boast about accepting 2nd rate products because they are so cool it doesn't bother them. They are such hardcore enthusiasts their guns all look like they spent a couple deployments being banged around in a truck and humped up and down billy goat hills. Its like a boy scout merit badge paying $750 for a NEW lower, and finding it comes with a chunk of metal missing. You can run online and tell all your friends how cool it was your new pricey item comes pre-battle damaged.....:cool:
It really depends on what the damage is. For instance, every Colt 6920 I have looked at has some kind of nic in it. Everyone. Some are small and some are big.
In the pic, the nic is most likely VERY tiny and would likely accept it. Why? Because all I am going to do is put more nics in it.
We all have to remember that the best AR manufacturers (especially ones that build guns for the DoD) pay almost zero attention to F&F. Why? because their main customer doesn't really care. Now if their customer changes and it is the common consumer, then they may have to start paying more attention (we shall see).
The biggest thing to realize is that an AR is NOT an over and under Italian Shotgun. If you want "pretty" then buy a nice bolt gun or shotgun (as these weapons and the manufacturers of them pay great attention to the grade of the wood how blue the metal is).
In the end everyone is different. We all like what we like. I just ask that some of you realize what the AR really is (A Tool) and was never designed to win any beauty competition.
C4
It's all about perspective and end use. If it's sold "AS NEW," it better be.
On the other hand, if it was returned with that, why expect a full refund, Hmmm?
The problem is that the general public wants it BOTH ways, and the retailer to suck up and ask, May I please be abused some more?
You wonder why some folks in retail seem less than cooperative when confronted with this sort of stuff. On the other hand, the vendors who offer the best service don't have the cheapest prices, either.
You WILL pay for that level of service, nobody's in business to go broke.
Hey, maybe the blem lowers should be marked like that, same as tires?
BLEM
You hit on some key points. The consumer wants the following things from a dealer:
1. Prices at their cost (or below it).
2. Free shipping.
3. 24/7 Customer Service (both phone and e-mail).
4. 110% price match gurantee.
5. The ability to use the item, discover that they either cannot afford it or don't want it and to be able to send it back for a FULL refund.
6. Knowledge on the products they sell to include how it works/fits on every known weapon made.
7. Install the item on their weapon for free.
8. Be able to complain about the dealer (when any of the above is not done) and then get even more pissed when the dealer responds to their comments.
9. Shipping on the same day as they ordered the item.
10. The dealer to fix any and all MANUFACTURER defects even though the dealer did not make the item.
That about sums it up. Did I miss anything? :D
C4
Belmont31R
04-02-10, 13:50
It really depends on what the damage is. For instance, every Colt 6920 I have looked at has some kind of nic in it. Everyone. Some are small and some are big.
In the pic, the nic is most likely VERY tiny and would likely accept it. Why? Because all I am going to do is put more nics in it.
We all have to remember that the best AR manufacturers (especially ones that build guns for the DoD) pay almost zero attention to F&F. Why? because their main customer doesn't really care. Now if their customer changes and it is the common consumer, then they may have to start paying more attention (we shall see).
The biggest thing to realize is that an AR is NOT an over and under Italian Shotgun. If you want "pretty" then buy a nice bolt gun or shotgun (as these weapons and the manufacturers of them pay great attention to the grade of the wood how blue the metal is).
In the end everyone is different. We all like what we like. I just ask that some of you realize what the AR really is (A Tool) and was never designed to win any beauty competition.
C4
I put plenty of wear into my guns. Ive owned my SR15 for 5 months now, and it has scratches on the barrel, the rail has some nicks, and there is a light scratch down the right side of the upper/lower. I've had guns fall over onto rocks, my Short-Dot got rubbed across a concrete shooting bench butting a 1" rub mark onto the dot brightness turret. I don't care about any of that. However....I'm not paying full price for an item that is damaged prior to even getting it. Yes that nick in the picture isn't going to change how the gun works at all, and it is pretty small. I do believe its unethical as a retailer to sell damaged items for full price when the customer is expecting a product in new condition. That lower is not, and for the price he paid the lower should not be sent out like that. No its not a Perazzi, Kolar, or Ljutic trap gun that cost 10k and up. It is a pricey item the customer worked pretty hard in life to be able to afford. Just because an AR is a "combat weapon" doesn't change the fact retailers should not be selling items as new that turned out to be damaged goods.
I've bought 3 NIB Colt AR's, and none had anything like that. My first AR was a Colt, and it looks like shit now. Finish worn down, lots of nicks, scratches, etc. I've never seen a NIB Colt that had chunks of metal missing. Yeah they come with light surface marks. Nothing an oily rag won't take care of, and I doubt Colt would deny a warranty claim if a customer opened the box to find what is pictured.
Lastly we don't know what this customer planned to do with the gun. AFAIK he didn't post about this here, and I know KAC admitted fault. They are going to replace it for him. Some people care, some don't. Doesn't take away what they intend to do with the gun or what their personal standards are in which they would accept items they purchase.
Should he send it back? Hell yes! Should he have kept his mule skinners on lock-down and not posted his rhetorical question? Hell yes! Carry on!
Yes unless its being sold as a second or otherwise discounted for being damaged.
Why pay full price for a damaged item? If I opened the box to a new TV, and there was a scratch on it Id want another one. If I bought a car, and did the inspection before leaving the dealer I wouldn't accept the sale if the car had a ding or scratch. If the item is being sold as new its the sellers responsibility to ensure their customer receives a product in new condition. Not damaged. Not messed up in any way. Basic customer service applicable to any market.
This. I'd expect a discount for a scratch.
I put plenty of wear into my guns. Ive owned my SR15 for 5 months now, and it has scratches on the barrel, the rail has some nicks, and there is a light scratch down the right side of the upper/lower. I've had guns fall over onto rocks, my Short-Dot got rubbed across a concrete shooting bench butting a 1" rub mark onto the dot brightness turret. I don't care about any of that. However....I'm not paying full price for an item that is damaged prior to even getting it. Yes that nick in the picture isn't going to change how the gun works at all, and it is pretty small. I do believe its unethical as a retailer to sell damaged items for full price when the customer is expecting a product in new condition. That lower is not, and for the price he paid the lower should not be sent out like that. No its not a Perazzi, Kolar, or Ljutic trap gun that cost 10k and up. It is a pricey item the customer worked pretty hard in life to be able to afford. Just because an AR is a "combat weapon" doesn't change the fact retailers should not be selling items as new that turned out to be damaged goods.
Your assuming that the retailer had any idea that anything was damaged in the first place. Then you state that it is "unethical" for the dealer to sell it. You should becareful with these types of statements as it paints the dealer as scam artist and the dealer most likely has zero idea that there is anything wrong.
Here are some facts for you:
1. Dealers do not inspect everyone weapon or piece of kit that leaves their shop.
2. Most everything is wrapped in something that is nearly impossible to see through.
3. When a dealer does open the packaging to inspect something (which we used to do), the consumer complains that the item was used! :rolleyes:
I've bought 3 NIB Colt AR's, and none had anything like that. My first AR was a Colt, and it looks like shit now. Finish worn down, lots of nicks, scratches, etc. I've never seen a NIB Colt that had chunks of metal missing. Yeah they come with light surface marks. Nothing an oily rag won't take care of, and I doubt Colt would deny a warranty claim if a customer opened the box to find what is pictured.
You should look at more Colt's then. Some of the worst dings and scratches I see are on Colt's. The above pic is most likely the size of a finger nail. I highly doubt Colt would take back a weapon for that type of scratch.
Lastly we don't know what this customer planned to do with the gun. AFAIK he didn't post about this here, and I know KAC admitted fault. They are going to replace it for him. Some people care, some don't. Doesn't take away what they intend to do with the gun or what their personal standards are in which they would accept items they purchase.
You are right. We are all different. Some of us get excited about small things and others do not.
C4
would you shake a stick at an angry dog on the other side of a fence while playing twister naked with a REALLY hot chick in a snow storm, if you were guaranteed of winning a new barbecue?
bkb wins the thread.
My LMT has a pretty good ding under the anodizing. Hopefully if I do my part I can add some more character to the rifle over it's lifespan.
Like some other people pointed out, maybe it is going to be used on some kind of collector piece, in which case I guess it could matter.
Belmont31R
04-03-10, 20:56
Your assuming that the retailer had any idea that anything was damaged in the first place. Then you state that it is "unethical" for the dealer to sell it. You should becareful with these types of statements as it paints the dealer as scam artist and the dealer most likely has zero idea that there is anything wrong.
Here are some facts for you:
1. Dealers do not inspect everyone weapon or piece of kit that leaves their shop.
2. Most everything is wrapped in something that is nearly impossible to see through.
3. When a dealer does open the packaging to inspect something (which we used to do), the consumer complains that the item was used! :rolleyes:
You should look at more Colt's then. Some of the worst dings and scratches I see are on Colt's. The above pic is most likely the size of a finger nail. I highly doubt Colt would take back a weapon for that type of scratch.
You are right. We are all different. Some of us get excited about small things and others do not.
C4
You should read the threads the owner of the lower posted before commenting on things which you do not know.
I've examined lots of Colts from private sales to lots of issued weapons. Never seen a ding like that on a NIB Colt. Maybe its just that Im not a large dealer like you, and dont have hundreds of weapons at my disposal?
Yes. Some people pay full price for damaged items. Others do not. I bet car dealers love you. They can unload their damaged goods on people like you who dont care they are getting a sub par product at full price.
You should read the threads the owner of the lower posted before commenting on things which you do not know.
I just read the thread on BARFCOM. It is not the dealers responsibility to fix an error by the manufacturer (FYI). They did not produce the item. So again, I would not assume that the dealer was unethical.
I've examined lots of Colts from private sales to lots of issued weapons. Never seen a ding like that on a NIB Colt. Maybe its just that Im not a large dealer like you, and dont have hundreds of weapons at my disposal?
I have a new batch of Colt's coming in. I will get some pics for you. ;)
You are correct about one thing though, you do not see a 1/10 of the weapons I see a year.
Yes. Some people pay full price for damaged items. Others do not. I bet car dealers love you. They can unload their damaged goods on people like you who dont care they are getting a sub par product at full price.
I do not classify a small scratch on a lower, to be that big a deal. Then again, I am not anal.
Several years ago, I bought a brand new Lexus. It had a scratch on the back bumper. I paid normal price for it and really didn't care. Why? Because I knew that the bumper would get far more scratches in it by just driving it. Correct I was. No more than a month later, a road sign flew off the back of a VDOT vehicle and slit my bumper in half.
Life is too short to worry about such little things.
C4
John_Wayne777
04-03-10, 21:36
Dude...somebody scratching the Charger is not a little thing. It's a tear out their spine and tie it into a knot and beat them to death with it thing.
As for ARs, my 6920 arrived with a couple of scratches and yet I was not filled with the urge to spine-thrash somebody to death over it. I've added some to it since then...no biggie. It's a tool.
Dude...somebody scratching the Charger is not a little thing. It's a tear out their spine and tie it into a knot and beat them to death with it thing.
LOL, your right. So I shouldn't stack beer bottles on it??? :D
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/TIP_Car.jpg
Heavy Metal
04-03-10, 21:52
Only if you lay a tarp under them Grant!
PS, I have plenty o' tarps!:D
Ok, so I got some more Colt's in stock. While looking over one of them, I found this nic in the anodizing.
The first pic illustrates how this small nic (the size of child's pinky finger nail) could be made to look like something else.
The second pic is of normal size (like how I post all my pics).
C4
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Colt/Bad_Receiver.jpg
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Colt/Bad_Receiver1.jpg
From what I remember it was a KAC lower.
Just someone overpaying for gear that they only want for its rollmarks, brandings, and general bragging rights on the internet. This is why I buy lowers for cheap and put them through use.
Bobert0989
04-05-10, 22:27
The Charles Daily I'm building up had a mark very similar to that,in baically the same spot...
Guarantee you won't notice it with the Duracoat in place ;)
'Course, I got a good deal on mine, so I wouldn't complain if the scratch went end-to-end, as long as it covered up nice enough. I'm probably gonna beat it up a little too, right?
Bobert0989
04-05-10, 22:42
Right there I got the name of the company "In The Shit Firearms"
Can I copyright this company name and open it under an LLC? I think you're onto something there, and I want on too! LOL
Or maybe "Busted Boomsticks"? I bet they'd sell! Might even move a few inoperables as "retired" models. Huh?
PrivateCitizen
04-07-10, 19:49
1. Prices at their cost (or below it).
2. Free shipping.
3. 24/7 Customer Service (both phone and e-mail).
4. 110% price match gurantee.
5. The ability to use the item, discover that they either cannot afford it or don't want it and to be able to send it back for a FULL refund.
6. Knowledge on the products they sell to include how it works/fits on every known weapon made.
7. Install the item on their weapon for free.
8. Be able to complain about the dealer (when any of the above is not done) and then get even more pissed when the dealer responds to their comments.
9. Shipping on the same day as they ordered the item.
10. The dealer to fix any and all MANUFACTURER defects even though the dealer did not make the item.
That about sums it up. Did I miss anything? :D
C4
11. My buddy goes to a guy that does that. If you want my business, you'd offer it to me too.
No, but then I don't keep firearms around that aren't going to be used hard.
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