View Full Version : Cav Arms Aluminum Lowers
davemcdonald
04-26-07, 20:46
Anybody checked out the aluminum Cav Arms lowers?
If so what did you think?
I handled some stripped ones today and will prolly pick up a couple to keep for emergency builds.
Dave
Anybody checked out the aluminum Cav Arms lowers?
If so what did you think?
I handled some stripped ones today and will prolly pick up a couple to keep for emergency builds.
Dave
I have not seen them in person. While they do look nice, price seems a bit high to me.
C4
I believe it is WOSTEES (way overpriced stuff that everyone else sells). Last I heard cavarms did not machine and anodize the lowers they just have their (borrowed) logo on the receiver. For $175 maybe they can throw in some fugly handguards and a stock that doesn't fit perfectly with your receiver, or the local grocery store will have generic Kool-aid cheaper. ;)
There are plenty of forged lowers I would take before I bought the Cavarms one (aluminum or plastic) beginning with DPMS, Double Star or (what may be the best of the lot) the Sabre Defense lower.
Check out the Sabre lower
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=XR15&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Dlower%20not%20follower%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html
http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Sabre%20Defence/Lower%20side%20view1.jpg
I looked on the website for them, but didn't find anything. What I want to know is whether or not they will be able to take grease gun mags like their plastic lowers did.
I looked on the website for them, but didn't find anything. What I want to know is whether or not they will be able to take grease gun mags like their plastic lowers did.
No the plastic lowers took the mags because the lower was not mil-spec (dimensionally, not just the use of plastic). A new grease gun lower is coming out, one of the part owners of cavarms, Warren, also owns Ameetec who will be marketing the grease gun mag lowers (aluminum) made by another company.
All of this depends on Warren actually selling lowers since his backlog on www.AR15.com may indicate that he isn't actually selling any lowers at this time.
So the new aluminum lowers ARE mil-spec dimensionally? I was wondering if they kept the magwell size from the plastic lowers, aparently they do not. So are these are just regular run of the mill forged aluminum lowers?
So the new aluminum lowers ARE mil-spec dimensionally? I was wondering if they kept the magwell size from the plastic lowers, aparently they do not. So are these are just regular run of the mill forged aluminum lowers?
As far as I know it is just WOSTEES. Think LAR makes them too?
davemcdonald
04-27-07, 10:05
They do look nice and it appears they that may be teflon coated. I like the roll mark, it beats a deer head anyday. The price is a little higher than many of the others on the market. We'll see what happens.
Dave
I'm with PB on this whole thing.
There has been a fair amount of discussion on arf.com about how the cav stuff is the sh!t, but very few of them are out there.
To make things even more interesting, some individuals have gotten some lowers from early "runs" (if there are enough out to call a production run) with low serial numbers and are attempting to sell them at exhorbitant prices claiming collector value. This has been done outside the normal channel on sites like backpage.com.
I think the jury should remain out on these for a while. They are introducing a product in an attempt to gain some name and market share, but still vehemently attempting to defend the plastic stuff (while talking down the established competitors- as seen on arf.com).
BTW- Since this is my first post....
Hello, I'm Noshoot. I'm a firearms junkie that enjoys putting holes in targets as much as chasing rocks, shotgun hulls, etc.
Just now getting the time to read the board from time to time and hoping to learn some more about the wonderful M4 (Gawd knows I carried an M16 enough just never got to know or understand the thing). Currently working on a build that started with a stripped DPMS lower (with some assistance of a friend of mine who is on this board).
Max Collins
04-27-07, 10:47
The Cavarms forged lower is way overpriced. It is identical to a DPMS, Ameetec, Doublestar, etc, lower.
They charge $50+ more per lower because they have a local following that loves to kiss their asses. But many locals have seen the truth and think of them as a joke. After years of selling plastic lowers and claiming them to be superior to aluminum, they have now capitulated and joined the forged lower "making" club.
I would buy what is priced right and what is available.
The Cavarms forged lower is way overpriced. It is identical to a DPMS, Ameetec, Doublestar, etc, lower.
They charge $50+ more per lower because they have a local following that loves to kiss their asses. But many locals have seen the truth and think of them as a joke. After years of selling plastic lowers and claiming them to be superior to aluminum, they have now capitulated and joined the forged lower "making" club.
I would buy what is priced right and what is available.
You have to figure that cav is getting their stuff from the same manufacturer as Ameetec.
Ameetec being the ones that are selling complete collapsible lowers for $200.
So, you really have to wonder about cav.
Kinda reminds me of when I worked in a gunstore part time a while back. We got something in used at a great price so we put it back out well under what it would normally go for. We had several lookers who saw the value but always asked "it's so cheap, what's wrong with it?" I told several people that there wasn't anything wrong with it, we just got it for a song from the original owner. Needless to say no one would touch it.
Soooo, we raised the price back up to "going rate" on it and it lasted less than 24 hours.
I think cav is trying to convince everyone that it's worth the asking price because it is such superior quality that it warrants what they are asking. That and an attempt to raise their margins since I bet the sales of the tactical tupperware is starting to wane.
Marketing and fan boys can only take a product so far and keep it going so long.
Eventually people simply want the best product available.
davemcdonald
04-27-07, 11:44
I didn't know that they were forged. I really haven't read any information about the lowers. My buddy received a pretty good sized shipment of them and I got my hands on a few. I have built a couple guns with the plastic Cav lowers and they work great. I would be hesitant to use one in combat but I haven't had any problems in about 15k.
I'll prolly pick one or two up and throw em in the safe for a rainy day.
Dave
davemcdonald
04-27-07, 11:46
Yeah good marketing is really over-rated....just look at Coca Cola.
Dave
I didn't know that they were forged. I really haven't read any information about the lowers. My buddy received a pretty good sized shipment of them and I got my hands on a few. I have built a couple guns with the plastic Cav lowers and they work great. I would be hesitant to use one in combat but I haven't had any problems in about 15k.
I'll prolly pick one or two up and throw em in the safe for a rainy day.
Dave
You would be hesitant to use on in combat? That is as honest as honest reviews can be. Maybe that is why they went to having someone else make their lowers (aluminum)?
davemcdonald
04-27-07, 12:21
Well I am a huge fan of MagPul and have put more than a few rounds down range from a couple PMags but I would still hesitate to use one in combat. Just becasue I hesitate on such matters does not mean that both the PMag and the Cav Arms lowers are not worthy enough for combat.
I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I am smart enough to know that my opinion is just that....my opinion.
Yeah good marketing is really over-rated....just look at Coca Cola.
Dave
In my opinion Coca Cola's marketing is a matter of brand presence in the market. A market that they have been is since 1889.
To quote the cav site-
http://www.cavalryarms.com/MKI.html (http://www.cavalryarms.com/MKI.html)
CAV-15 "MKI" Receiver
The CAV-15 injection molded AR15 receiver was first unveiled by Cavalry Arms at the 2000 Soldier of Fortune Convention in Las Vegas, Nevada. The first CAV-15 receivers shipped to consumers in December of 2000.
So, cav introduced the first product produced by the company in 2000 at an SOF convention and not the Shot Show. That's some interesting marketing.
Since that time their marketing has been taken to the level of having their guys (employees/fanboys- known as shills on other hobby sites) register on firearms related forums and attack anyone that says anything contrary to what they post on a daily basis. That's some really interesting marketing.....
As far as using them in combat, when you go to the website and click on LE/Mil sales you get a page touting accessories but not their weapons. If you go to the about us page and click on the "Cav Troopers" button you see photo's of many troops in the field, and not a single is carrying a cav weapon.
This is just my opinion, based on personal observation, reading, and research.
That is correct, and this has been the only true "discussion" of cavarms products I have read in a long time. Usually their crew and "fans" jump in and try to decimate the conversation.
This is a good website.
Opinions do count for something. If I think I'm dying I want the opinion of a doctor, if I can't fix my car then I want the opinion of a good mechanic.
davemcdonald
04-27-07, 13:45
Ah, but a doctor would be a qualified opinion.
I admit that I am a fence sitter as far as Cav Arms goes. They seem ok and from what experience that I have on the subject they appear to work well . I think a lot of you guys spend too much time trying to read in between the imaginary lines.
I can see why all the so called Cav Arms fans get so defensive. There seems to be much hate and discontent focused on CAV Arms that is based on semantics.
I initially was looking for opinions on the Cav Arms aluminum lowers. Now so far, the only opinions that stay on topic point towards the lowers being to expensive for what they are and I some what agree. However none of these free flowing opinions appear to be based on actual hands-on experience with the aforementioned lowers.
Why would your opinion not count? If you are on here and love shooting you probably have a qualified opinion. If you say you are unqualified then maybe you are, but I'd bet that it is reasonably qualified.
I doubt you'll find any shortcomings with the receivers because I believe they are contracted out to a major manufacturer, maybe LAR, who also does DPMS lowers. If they are the same then you are paying for the logo, and I spend my time looking at the front sight - not the logo.
Now so far, the only opinions that stay on topic point towards the lowers being to expensive for what they are and I some what agree. However none of these free flowing opinions appear to be based on actual hands-on experience with the aforementioned lowers.
I concede on your point here. But I might be able to provide a more knowledge based hands on opinion if they were made more readily available for the world to see/feel etc. I have been in several shops in my area (the cav home zone) and the one thing that seems to be absent from the shelves are these particular lowers.
I still stand on what I said about advertising. Maybe you just shouldn't have used Coca Cola as an example. I was by no means attempting to call you out, just offering argument in response.
Dave,
I just ordered one from DSG Arms and it should be in my hands next week. I'll give a review, if you desire.
I like everything I've gotten from Cavalry Arms, from Mk2 lowers, midlength uppers, and furniture. When I build guns for myself, I seek out their parts for grips and handguards because the grips have no gaps or overhangs on any of my lowers (ArmaLite, Rock River, DPMS, SNS), and the handguards are strong and don't flex and warp like some of the ones I've gotten in the past from ArmaLite and RRA. I can get them in colors (other than black), too.
davemcdonald
04-27-07, 18:15
Snake
DSG is where I was checking them out. Please do post a review and let us know what you think about it.
Dave
davemcdonald
04-27-07, 18:22
No worries Noshoot. If I was anymore easy going I would be asleep.
You may not be able to find any in AZ because a large number of them are here in TX.
I was just wondering if anybody had any rounds down range with one as I had not even heard that they existed until my buddy tossed one to me.
Max Collins
04-27-07, 18:46
The bottom line is if you get one, of course it will work. Their aluminum lowers are no better, no worse than the other multitudes of lowers on the market. There are probably like 2 or 3 places in the U.S. that make ALL the lowers available, which get marked with whichever company's logo. Of course a Cav Arms branded forged lower will work. The question is whether or not you think enough of the company or the logo to pay the premium ($175 for a stripped lower) they have priced on them.
I picked mine up from the FFL today. I can't tell who machined it (since I am not an expert) but it is a little different from my DPMS lower, in the respect that it has a visible tunnel where the takedown pin detent and spring go, like what my RRA lowers look like. I don't think CMT machined it, though, since the opening above the FCG looks like my DPMS receiver.
The color is flat black, but not dark black like RRA receivers. It actually matches an older C7 Bushmaster upper I have. The markings are clear, even, and easy to read. The flash or seams on the web above the grip and on the front of the magwell are machined smooth.
I assembled it with a SLR15/Defensive Edge lower parts kit I had, and a Magpul CTR stock. Assembly went well and easy, with all parts fitting into place with minimum amount of work (unlike the last lower I got, an Eagle Arms, where I had to do some work on the lower because of a sticking magazine catch). I tried several magazines (DSG Arms, NHMTG 20rd, old Parsons) and all drop free (I find the NHMTGs I have fit a little tighter in most magwells). Fit with the BM upper was good and no play between upper and lower.
I'll do some shooting with it hopefully this weekend, and if I have any problems, I'll post back here.
So far, it seems to be a good lower. If they were cheaper, I might purchase more, but I've reached the end of my rifle building. A reason why I got it was for the collector value (it's a cool rollmark), but like my other rifles, I'll never sell it.
BTW: I got it from DSG Arms, where it is $167 plus tax...slightly less than MSRP of $175.
Don Robison
09-29-07, 12:07
Kind of an old thread, I was just wondering how the CAV Arms lower build turned out for you Snake?
I bought two stripped lowers this morning at a gun show for $120 each. I figured for that price around here I'd give them a try for an SBR build with an LMT upper.
bushmasterar15
10-06-07, 20:12
I like the Cav lowers. Great group of guy's to deal with.
The Cavarms forged lower is way overpriced. It is identical to a DPMS, Ameetec, Doublestar, etc, lower. They charge $50+ more per lower because they have a local following that loves to kiss their asses. .
Actually, it's a know fact that everyone in Phoenix is stupid, and doesn't know the market value of an AR receiver.
But many locals have seen the truth and think of them as a joke.
Why don't you share the truth with us? Is their product poor? Is there service poor? Or is this personal? Several locals decided that they don't like Cav Arms, and do there best to communicate that with everyone. The rest of the locals think that they are fair, honest, and do more for gun owners and shooting sports than most everybody else. I'll even go so far as to say I've never seen any company do more for shooters or shooting sports than Cav Arms.
After years of selling plastic lowers and claiming them to be superior to aluminum, they have now capitulated and joined the forged lower "making" club.
What a concept. An AR manufacturer making and selling AR parts. How many original products have you designed and brought to market?
I would buy what is priced right and what is available.
As you should. That's how the free market works.
And just because someone will ask, I don't work for them, and they wouldn't recognize me walking down the street. I own exactly one Cav Arms product, and it's a lower I have set up waiting for me to buy a .45 upper for it.
Does anyone know if the Cav Arms Aluminum lowers are High or Low shelf?
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