View Full Version : Kyle Defoor Glock Sights
Business_Casual
04-02-10, 11:09
I am interested to try Kyle's new sights for the Glock. The information is available on his blog at http://www.kyledefoor.com and they are made by Ameriglo, so quality should be a no brainer. They look to have plenty of right angles for one-handed use and are regulated for 25 yard POA/POI as well. The price is reasonable as well.
Does anyone have them on their Glock yet? I have been using 10-8 sights with a .250 front to get just on the black hold at 25 yards. I'm looking forward to some reviews of these sights.
B_C
I am interested to try Kyle's new sights for the Glock. The information is available on his blog at http://www.kyledefoor.com and they are made by Ameriglo, so quality should be a no brainer. They look to have plenty of right angles for one-handed use and are regulated for 25 yard POA/POI as well. The price is reasonable as well.
Does anyone have them on their Glock yet? I have been using 10-8 sights with a .250 front to get just on the black hold at 25 yards. I'm looking forward to some reviews of these sights.
B_C
I saw Kyle post this on FB on Wednesday and I plan on ordering a set today.
Business_Casual
04-02-10, 11:27
Awesome, please do a review when you get them on the pistol.
B_C
Awesome, please do a review when you get them on the pistol.
B_C
If you need a set of sights don't wait on me, just go ahead and order them. Knowing Kyle and his abilities the sights will be awesome. Besides, I don't really think I can add given my lack of shooting skillz.
Given my schedule it might be weeks before I get them installed and have a chance to shoot them.
After reading the description on Kyle's site and Ameriglo's site, these appear to be the Operator night sights but without the tritium vials and serrated on the front. If thats the case then I can recommend them, as I run Operators on a couple of my Glocks and like them very much. They shoot to point of aim for me out to 25yds. I'll be getting a set of his for my G19RTF2 if it ever comes in.
CORRECTION: Just double checked, the two do have the same width rear sight, but the Defoor set has a narrower front (.115") compared to the Operator's (.125").
Ordered a set after seeing his blog post and the UPS man just dropped them off at the office. They look solid and I hope to get them installed this weekend.
Crappy cell phone pics:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk220/jds44/SSPX0247.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk220/jds44/SSPX0245.jpg
I've been using the Ameriglo combat sights for years on my personal glocks. The skinny front sight is really nice for aiming. Night Sights are great, but if your target is properly illuminated & identifiable, then your sight picture will be clear.
Business_Casual
04-02-10, 19:26
They aren't u-notch then? That's disappointing.
B_C
Look like outstanding sights and a very fair price as well. I ordered a set for myself this afternoon. I cannot wait to install them on a G17.
John_Wayne777
04-02-10, 20:19
No tritium? Hmmmm; I'd probably throw a set on an IDPA gun, but none of my carry guns.
I'm not sure, but I don't think you can get a tritium vial into a .115 front sight.
I finally figured out that I don't need night sights on every gun I own. I've only got them on my everyday carry G19. The rest have plain black sights and I'm going to keep it that way.
I'm not sure, but I don't think you can get a tritium vial into a .115 front sight.
You can, but you have to use a smaller tritium capsule. I think a capsule like the one that comes in the rear of Warrens would fit in a .115 front sight with enough metal left to protect the capsule.
I ordered a set as well to try. My 10-8s shoot way too high. Nightsights are WAY overrated.
Robb Jensen
04-03-10, 05:10
Just ordered a set for my GSSF gun which is Glock 17 Gen 1 made in 1987.
I had thought of using a plain black Warren rear with a serrated Heinie front but this is way easier.
Business_Casual
04-03-10, 07:14
I ordered a set as well to try. My 10-8s shoot way too high. Nightsights are WAY overrated.
I've used a .250 front to correct the POI/POA issue with my Glock. I had to use a .235 on another one.
As for night sights, they have their place and require training and low-light practice to be useful.
B_C
They look interesting and quite viable-I'll probably try a set on my new G21 SF RTF2 when I get it.
Best, Jon
For those who have ordered these sights please let us know how you like them. I am thinking about picking up a set for my Glock 19.
Thanks
Rosco Benson
04-04-10, 08:34
Ameriglo seems to be putting together sight sets to suit the tastes of well-regarded trainers. They have a "Hackathorn" set too. It consists of a plain black wide-notch rear and a front with an orange square on it (it looks to be wider than .115, maybe .125?).
Not sure if the orange paint is that Luminova stuff that the Europeans are forced to use, since they can't be trusted with tritium. I've got one of their front sights that has the light green square of Luminova paint with a tritium dot in the middle thereof. In low light all I see is the dot. I can't tell that the paint is doing anything. Still it's a nice enough sight. Were I to do it over I would get the orange paint (along with the tritium) for better visibility in good light.
Rosco
I finally figured out that I don't need night sights on every gun I own. I've only got them on my everyday carry G19. The rest have plain black sights and I'm going to keep it that way.
Same conclusion I came to. It can get very expensive to put night sights on every pistol.
According to to their website the Hackathorn front sight with the orange square is .140" which is too wide for me.
After reading this post and Kyle's blog I ordered a set on Friday and received them yesterday. Installed them on a G17c I had laying around and took them out to sight in today. Played around with them doing some one handed reload and malfunction drills and it was the same as my Warrens. Sighting in entailed shooting our Wed afternoon mini IDPA match (<50 rounds). For you IDPA nazis the barrel is a stock non ported factory barrel. I shot 47 rounds and liked the sights. Shots taken from 5 to 20 yards and I had no problem getting my hits. First 6 shots were head shots at 10 yards, no problem. Not an accuracy test by any means but thought I'd throw this up there.
FWIW I run Warrens on all my other Glocks, a 34 with plain rear and fiber front, the rest have a plain rear and tritium fronts. These seem to sit at the same height and the front/rear sight widths were also similar enough to be unnoticeable to me. I'm gonna shoot these in a steel match this weekend and will also try to run the CSAT standards with them. A llong winded review for not much substance but to me these are a good value for <$50. I also thought it was cool they included a front sight tool with the sights for those who don't own one.
Spence
GunSlinger
04-10-10, 00:09
Not sure if the orange paint is that Luminova stuff that the Europeans are forced to use, since they can't be trusted with tritium.
yes it is. Ken charged his up accordingly for the night shoot portion of his class in March.
And no. Luger heads and the rest of the Europeans or the rest of the world for that matter are not as blessed as us when it comes glow in the dark goodness.
I've had a set of these on my G17 for about two weeks now and have put a little over 600rds downrange using them thus far..
So far, I'd say Spence is right on and I agree with him that these are pretty much the same as Warren's or Sevigny's at a lower price-point without losing any quality. I'd add that the rear profile being more that of a traditional Glock shape puts it right in-between the Warren and Sevigny profiles... simpler lines than tge Warren "wave" profile, but you get a bit more peripheral view when engaging targets too.
I'm still getting used to their POI while aiming with tge top of the front blade as POA, hitting an inch or two low at 25 yards but it might just be me not being used to them just yet...
I like 'em.
FWIW, here's a quick pic of them on the gun:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckarp007/91789340.jpg
Robb Jensen
04-24-10, 09:51
My set on my Glock 17 Gen 1.
I really like them. I need to grip tape up the frame and then I'll be using this for outdoor IDPA and GSSF matches.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/Defoor.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/Defoor2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/gotm4/gunpics/Defoor3.jpg
Most of the instructors were running this combination on our Glocks before i left Blackwater, we tried different combinations that Ameriglo gave us and we liked this front and rear sight combination. they are very fast and accurate, they also gave us POA POI pretty much all the way back to 75 yards which is good for a walk back drill (for those who have done a walk back drill with us, you know what i mean)
I know have them on pretty much all of my Glock's.
Robb Jensen
04-24-10, 11:04
Glock factory sights simply suck ass™. The Glocks fronts were falling off in shipping at a alarming rate. Because of this last year Glock started using front sight screws (3/16") like aftermarket sights use because of this. The plastic rears fall off if doing one handed manipulations using your holster, belt, book etc.
Looey - Littlefoot is still looking for a set from you, he said you promised him a set. I told him were to buy a set like I did but you know he's a cheap ass! ;)
My set on my Glock 17 Gen 1.
I really like them. I need to grip tape up the frame and then I'll be using this for outdoor IDPA and GSSF matches.
Do you prefer them to Warren's, Heinie's or 10-8's and if so why?
Discussed the sights with Kyle a little over a week ago. He said they are made to be used to cock the gun. He, and another TS instructor, did not have many positive comments on tritium sights. Basically said not really needed IIRC. Will be buying a couple of Kyle's sights next week so when I convert from HK to Glock I'll have the sights I want.
Robb Jensen
04-24-10, 12:07
Do you prefer them to Warren's, Heinie's or 10-8's and if so why?
The Warren plain black sights I like probably equally as well to the Kyle Defoor black sights. I do really how low the Defoor sights are on the Glock. It makes them look stock. They are extremely fast and accurate it good outdoor light. It's when in low light that you'll see the downsides to black sights regardless of manufacturer. I prefer Defoor and Warren sights (over Heinie and 10-8) because the rear blocks less of the target. The roundness of the dot help to locate the front with a tritium in the Warren notch faster and the shape of the Warren rear helps to correctly position it over the target faster when shooting beyond 25yds.
For night sights my favorite are Warren cut dot-on-dot.
Robb Jensen
04-24-10, 12:38
A light?
gotm4, I like the lower height off the slide of the Defoor sights over the Warren/Sevigny's as well (if that's what you meant), but otherwise I think they're pretty much the same, just comes down to what rear sight shape works best for different guys.
Yes that's what I meant. Since I like the straight eight dot-on-dot of the tritium tubes I have to use taller sights like the Warrens or Heinies. The shorter Ameriglos are just too short to do that.
Super cute answer. How about failing light versus darkness?
What if you don't have a light or your light is broken?
Just a joke, sorry.
I honestly have no idea what those guy's tactics are in low-light.
FWIW, personally, my own opinion of night sights is that they're optional, as for me, I can't imagine employing my pistol in a low-light scenario in which there wasn't at least enough ambient light for me to make my target (or I shouldn't be shooting), with a threat in darker conditions or in close, say 30 feet on in, I'd be index and muscle-memory which is where lots of practice comes in to play. Guys who like 'em should use 'em if they want to, but they're not a deal-breaker in my book.
Easy to imagine taking fire from the shadows in dim light and wanting to return fire effectively.
Easy to imagine taking fire from the shadows in dim light and wanting to return fire effectively.
I take it you don't agree with my opinion, which is fine, many guys don't. I'd like to think I train enough where returning fire effectively won't come down to itty bitty tritium vials being the difference.
Guess I just don't like them, in truth, for me I think they're more of a distraction in most conditions than they're worth as it seems the less complicated my sights are the better I shoot, and as a preference, I'd rather have a thinner .115 front blade than forced to go with a wider one for the tritium... again, that's just my take, to each his own.
You guys with stock Trijicons-you can open the rear up if you are crafty with a file. Use one with a plain edge.
Make sure you remove equal amouts in the channel and cover the top of the slide with 3-4 layers of duct tape. Cold blue after you are done.
Makes a world of difference, would be nice if they made them with wider notch.
I think they're more of a distraction in most conditions than they're worth as it seems the less complicated my sights are the better I shoot, and as a preference, I'd rather have a thinner .115 front blade than forced to go with a wider one for the tritium... again, that's just my take, to each his own.
For tritium, I prefer just the fronts. I don't like multiple dots for the same reason. I've got them on 4 defensive pistols and don't have them on a few more. I don't think one is helpless w/o them but they do provide more options IMO. A reference vs straight "point shooting".
Now in a class, I listened to Tom Givens emphatically argue against them as an unnecessary expense. I respect his experienced opinion. I'm not all bought in on it however.
In any case, these look like pretty decent sights for the money. I've got Ameriglos like this on a G19 and Warren Sevigny all black on a 17 and they are pretty comparable in all reality.
Katar- It was a discussion I can't recall completely, that' s why I put "IIRC." Hopefully I can get a definite answer within a couple of days. Will post what I find out.
Jay Cunningham
04-24-10, 21:48
Katar- It was a discussion I can't recall completely, that' s why I put "IIRC." Hopefully I can get a definite answer within a couple of days. Will post what I find out.
10 - 4
Sounds good.
Business_Casual
04-24-10, 22:07
Just a joke, sorry.
I honestly have no idea what those guy's tactics are in low-light.
FWIW, personally, my own opinion of night sights is that they're optional, as for me, I can't imagine employing my pistol in a low-light scenario in which there wasn't at least enough ambient light for me to make my target (or I shouldn't be shooting), with a threat in darker conditions or in close, say 30 feet on in, I'd be index and muscle-memory which is where lots of practice comes in to play. Guys who like 'em should use 'em if they want to, but they're not a deal-breaker in my book.
Perhaps, perhaps not. I would recommend taking a low-light class before you form any opinions about what you can or cannot do with a pistol at night - regardless of the sights.
B_C
Perhaps, perhaps not. I would recommend taking a low-light class before you form any opinions about what you can or cannot do with a pistol at night - regardless of the sights.
B_C
I practice in low-light often and feel just fine about what I can and cannot do with a pistol under those conditions, thanks though. Guess you can just take another one of those classes again for me and just let me know what I missed if you want...
I'm new to this forum, people are really warm and fuzzy over here I see.
I'd hope to discuss differing opinions on tactics before or rather than jumping straight to "you don't know s**t, go take a class...".
As I said before, it's MY personal opinion that night sights aren't necessary, and if you don't agree that's fine, currently in handgun circles most don't.
As I see it, rather than talking about tritium or no-tritium or which tactics, we need to take a look at how our eyes work first: "Vision begins when light rays are reflected off an object and enter the eyes through the cornea, the transparent outer covering of the eye." and "Rods are located outside the macula and extend all the way to the outer edge of the retina. They provide peripheral or side vision. Rods also allow the eyes to detect motion and help us see in dim light and at night."(http://www.aoa.org/x6024.xml).
Since 99.9% of the environments we'll find ourselves in will have some sort of ambient light that will be dictating to what varying degree our eyes are capable of functioning, training in pitch black or close to it, as where the benefits of tritium are obvious, starts to seem kind of foolish since we're unlikely to get in a gunfight with our sleeping bag pulled over our heads or having the Ninja/Monk-like mind-power to force our "Rods" within our own eyes from collecting the light energy from our glowing sights at the expense of our ability to see at distance as they're naturally designed to do.
I'd say in low-light the plain iron sights' biggest disadvantage is engaging targets when the majority of available light is coming from your rear, in those cases the pistol's slide profile really becomes the coarse "sight" and good index makes or breaks an accurate shot, I'm not talking shooting for little groups here, but easily COM out to 15 yards without much practice... overall, the light available dictates how good or no good your sights look and how precise of a shot you can make, your eyes and available vision is still under your control and your eyes aren't fighting being drawn to the brightest thing in view (tritium) while trying to simultaneously scan for your target... now, when engaging into the light with dark behind you there is probably no better sight picture, if I could have a black cloud follow me around whenever I was shooting I would.
Besides, training like this IMO helps enforce good overall index (grip, stance, trigger-control) which is probably more helpful anyways, as in low-light our brains naturally may want to use most of our limited vision to identify and track the target whether we like it or not. While we're at it, and not for nothing... if we're unlucky enough to be gun-fighting in the dark, who says the gun in our hands is even ours or exactly the one we planned on (with the fancy night-sights)?
Once the first muzzle flash happens, things change...
Just my take.
You guys may have mentioned this, but are they the same height as trijicons? Wondering if I could use a triji front sight, with the Defoor rear sight. I have Warrens on just about all of my guns, and I'm becoming convinced that I don't like the taller height. Just too used to the Glock factory height I suppose. An expensive proposition since I'd be swapping them out of at least 7 Glocks and 2 M&Ps if I decide to get rid of the Warrens.
You guys may have mentioned this, but are they the same height as trijicons? Wondering if I could use a triji front sight, with the Defoor rear sight. I have Warrens on just about all of my guns, and I'm becoming convinced that I don't like the taller height. Just too used to the Glock factory height I suppose. An expensive proposition since I'd be swapping them out of at least 7 Glocks and 2 M&Ps if I decide to get rid of the Warrens.
If you mean stock trijicon take-offs that came on the guns from the factory, then I'd say yes, use the fronts you've got and get the Defoor rears only. Ameriglo makes a .125 wide front for Glocks that would be the same as the Warren's only at the lower stock height, most tritium fronts are .125" - .140", not sure where the Trij's fit in (I know Mepro Tru-Dot fronts are .160" which is just stupid-wide IMO).
Robb Jensen
04-25-10, 06:37
You guys may have mentioned this, but are they the same height as trijicons? Wondering if I could use a triji front sight, with the Defoor rear sight. I have Warrens on just about all of my guns, and I'm becoming convinced that I don't like the taller height. Just too used to the Glock factory height I suppose. An expensive proposition since I'd be swapping them out of at least 7 Glocks and 2 M&Ps if I decide to get rid of the Warrens.
Yes. At or near the same height. The Defoor has a .115" wide front but the Ameriglo and Trijicon fronts are .125" so you would needawider Ameriglo rear notch to get the same effect as Defoors and you couldn't get a rear do a the bottom of the notch like dot-on-dot Warrens. No dot(s) in the rear sight is fast but I find in certain lighting you cannot see the rear at all.
Kyle Defoor
04-29-10, 08:31
Black sights are more accurate for daytime (well lit) use.
Tritium sights are useful basically 2 times during the day (or in a dimly lit area), that is dusk and dawn. If you find yourself in either, then trits are probably a good idea.
However, Tritium does not IDENIFY THE TARGET, help you search, or help disorient. I'm not saying they are not useful. In a certain situation they are the best call (i.e.- someone who works in a constant LOW LIGHT area (not complete darkness though), whereas he can still positively ID the possible threat.
More than likely if trits could be used w/o the use of a light to ID then you could probably see black sights too if the rear notch is correct made.
In the end, you have to make the call as to which area are you more likely to find yourself in the most- light enough to see black sights or that perfect dimly lit situation where you can ID w/o a light.
Most will find that they are more accurate at night with a light and black sights being backlit.
Tomato, Tomatoe
SeriousStudent
05-03-10, 18:19
I bought a set last week as well, and am looking forward to trying them out.
Thanks very much for the discount code, Mr. Defoor. :)
I just installed Ameriglo Defoor on my Glock 34 and it's shooting about .75" high at 11 yards when I am holding center. Has anybody else experienced this or is my sight picture somewhat off? I didn't have this issue with stock sights and I have Warren's on Glock 19 which shoot at the proper elevation.
I just installed Ameriglo Defoor on my Glock 34 and it's shooting about .75" high at 11 yards when I am holding center. Has anybody else experienced this or is my sight picture somewhat off? I didn't have this issue with stock sights and I have Warren's on Glock 19 which shoot at the proper elevation.
Mine shoot dead on with the top of the blade and sometimes have me thinking they may be printing a bit low (probably just me) on a shorter barreled G17... .75" HIGH at only 11 yards seems a little weird but could just be the longer gun, that might have them at a six o'clock hold at 25 yards which would have them hitting just like the Sevigny sights do (which I find plausible as it seems they're the exact same specs/ratios as those in a sight that lives lower off the slide).
If you're used to POA being half way up the blade (where a dot would be) instead of the top of the front blade as POA than it could just be that and your POI makes sense.
If you're used to POA being half way up the blade (where a dot would be) instead of the top of the front blade as POA than it could just be that and your POI makes sense.
I always use the tops of the sights, not the dots when shooting, so I don't think that's the issue. I will have to have my friend shoot the gun to figure out.
Thanks!
I just installed Ameriglo Defoor on my Glock 34 and it's shooting about .75" high at 11 yards when I am holding center. Has anybody else experienced this or is my sight picture somewhat off? I didn't have this issue with stock sights and I have Warren's on Glock 19 which shoot at the proper elevation.
Try them at 25 yards instead of 11 and see what you get. I'm pretty sure they're designed to hit the top of the sight @ 25 (mine do at least).
SWATcop556
05-12-10, 12:32
Anyone had a chance to put some range time on these sights? I'm ordering a set for one of my G19's but just wanted to see what peoples impressions were so far. This looks like a great option for inexpensive hard use sights.
Robb Jensen
05-12-10, 12:42
Anyone had a chance to put some range time on these sights? I'm ordering a set for one of my G19's but just wanted to see what peoples impressions were so far. This looks like a great option for inexpensive hard use sights.
Great simple sights. I have them on my Glock 17 Gen 1. They hit POA/POI from about 10yds to 50yds. Can't say the same for taller sights.
SWATcop556
05-12-10, 12:51
Great simple sights. I have them on my Glock 17 Gen 1. They hit POA/POI from about 10yds to 50yds. Can't say the same for taller sights.
So do these sights setup to have the bullet impact at the tip of the front sight or do you cover your POI with the front blade?
Robb Jensen
05-12-10, 12:56
So do these sights setup to have the bullet impact at the tip of the front sight or do you cover your POI with the front blade?
For me the front sight covers where the impact is going to be to about 20yds, after somewhere about 30yds for me the impact is again covered to 50yds (for me from 20 to 30yds the impact is on top of the front sight). I haven't shot them past 50yds yet. That's with Federal/American Eagle 115gr FMJ, I haven't tried any other ammo. I also have a kinda heavy trigger Ghost 3.5lb connecter with an older black NY trigger spring.
SWATcop556
05-12-10, 14:10
Thanks Robb. Do you still prefer the Warrens over these? I have Warrens on my duty pistol but I'm thinking these will be great for my other Glocks.
Robb Jensen
05-12-10, 14:14
Thanks Robb. Do you still prefer the Warrens over these? I have Warrens on my duty pistol but I'm thinking these will be great for my other Glocks.
For night sights yes I prefer Warren's. For plain sights these Defoor Ameriglos rock and I like them over Warrens/Sevigny sights.
I deleted some post in this thread to keep it on topic. I am to guilty of thread drift so no hard feelings. Later, Robb/gotm4
Great simple sights. I have them on my Glock 17 Gen 1. They hit POA/POI from about 10yds to 50yds. Can't say the same for taller sights.
Robb, what did you use to install these sights? Sight pusher? My usual method of locking the slide in and using a hard plastic drift and hammer isn't working with these. They are really tight and I have only been able to get them 1/3 of the way in.
Robb Jensen
05-15-10, 22:54
Robb, what did you use to install these sights? Sight pusher? My usual method of locking the slide in and using a hard plastic drift and hammer isn't working with these. They are really tight and I have only been able to get them 1/3 of the way in.
At work I have 6 different Glock sight tools:
2 old 9mm/40/357 Glock Inc sight tools
1 old 10mm/45 sight Glock Inc sight tool
1 MGW old style Glocks sight tool
1 MGW new style Glock sight tool
1 MGW tall Glock sight tool
To install the Defoor rear sight I used a genuine old style Glock 9mm sight tool I added a little Militec to the dovetail on the slides dovetail before installing the new sight.
SeriousStudent
05-15-10, 23:37
I'll have to try the Militec. I am in the same boat as uwe1.
At work I have 6 different Glock sight tools:
2 old 9mm/40/357 Glock Inc sight tools
1 old 10mm/45 sight Glock Inc sight tool
1 MGW old style Glocks sight tool
1 MGW new style Glock sight tool
1 MGW tall Glock sight tool
To install the Defoor rear sight I used a genuine old style Glock 9mm sight tool I added a little Militec to the dovetail on the slides dovetail before installing the new sight.
I tried lubing it up with RemOil to no avail. It looks like I'm going to have to invest in a sight tool. This thing isn't going to move and I probably don't want to "bubba" it up. Thanks for the info.
Ridge_Runner_5
05-16-10, 01:41
Ordered a set after seeing his blog post and the UPS man just dropped them off at the office. They look solid and I hope to get them installed this weekend.
Crappy cell phone pics:
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk220/jds44/SSPX0247.jpg
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk220/jds44/SSPX0245.jpg
I picked up an identical set for my G26 a week or two ago...front sight was DOA, no light or anything. Have sent it back to Ameriglo, and they will decide whether or not I broke them by opening the package, and if they'll replace it...
By the way, what is the purpose of the tool they include? I cant figure it out!
I picked up an identical set for my G26 a week or two ago...front sight was DOA, no light or anything. Have sent it back to Ameriglo, and they will decide whether or not I broke them by opening the package, and if they'll replace it...
By the way, what is the purpose of the tool they include? I cant figure it out!
The DeFoor sights are non-tritium front and rear. Black only. There shouldn't be any light.
The tool is for the screw that locks the front sight in.
Ridge_Runner_5
05-16-10, 02:00
The DeFoor sights are non-tritium front and rear. Black only. There shouldn't be any light.
The tool is for the screw that locks the front sight in.
Ah, okay. I guess my Ameriglos are standard tritium sights, then:p
My bad. I'll just slowly back out of this thread and we'll all pretend this never happened...
Anyone had a chance to put some range time on these sights? I'm ordering a set for one of my G19's but just wanted to see what peoples impressions were so far. This looks like a great option for inexpensive hard use sights.
I put them on my duty gun and liked them so much I ordered a second set for my other G. I really dig the skinny front sight. Mine were dead on top of the blade at 25 with fed fmj.
I put them on my duty gun and liked them so much I ordered a second set for my other G. I really dig the skinny front sight. Mine were dead on top of the blade at 25 with fed fmj.
I have the HiViz overmolded fiber optic front sights for the Glock (I think GL2007) and they are about the same height and width as the DeFoors (both are skinny). After reading on Kyle's webpage, it appears that the DeFoor rears are nearly identical in height to the stock Glock rears. I think I prefer having a front FO and plain rear DeFoors. That is, if I can manage to get the darned things installed all the way.
I'll have to try the Militec. I am in the same boat as uwe1.
Any success? I just locked my slide down in between two two by fours and a work bench with a couple C-Clamps. Lubed the slide/sight with Slip2000 EWL, RemOil, G-Lube...you name it. Put a cheap screwdriver handle on the sights and tried to drift them on with a hammer. No damage to the sights or the slide, but screwdriver doesn't look too hot. Managed to get the sights halfway in, but still no luck.
This is on the new G19 slide with the rougher finish. I haven't attempted the rear install on a G17 with the standard finish.
These suckers are tight as I've never had this level of difficulty with sight installs. There's no way you need a set screw to keep these from moving. Guess I'm going to have to fork out $100 to get a MGW sight tool unless there are better ideas...:D
SeriousStudent
05-16-10, 17:51
Any success? .........
Negative. I'm debating on whether to take it to my local smith, who I sometimes trust to do "simple" things like this one. ;)
I also have a business card from the folks at Ameriglo. I'll ask them if they have had similiar reports, and any ideas.
I'm putting them on a second-generation G-19 that is a relatively old police trade-in. I have a micrometer on order from Midway, and I'll measure the parts and the dovetail cuts as well.
I really do like the sight picture, and think they are a heck of a deal for the price. Let me know how the MGM tool works. I may need to rent it from you. :p
Business_Casual
05-16-10, 18:24
I helped Gunslinger put sights on his Gen IV and it was rough going as well. I wonder if Glock changed the spec when they re-designed the standard sights and the aftermarket hasn't caught up to it yet?
B_C
GermanSynergy
05-16-10, 18:42
I'm going to order a set tonight for my Gen 2 G-17. Kyle is an outstanding instructor & I'm happy to give him the business. :cool:
Negative. I'm debating on whether to take it to my local smith, who I sometimes trust to do "simple" things like this one. ;)
I also have a business card from the folks at Ameriglo. I'll ask them if they have had similiar reports, and any ideas.
I'm putting them on a second-generation G-19 that is a relatively old police trade-in. I have a micrometer on order from Midway, and I'll measure the parts and the dovetail cuts as well.
I really do like the sight picture, and think they are a heck of a deal for the price. Let me know how the MGM tool works. I may need to rent it from you. :p
I am also debating on taking mine to the local smith tomorrow. Usually, locking the slide in, placing the handle of the screwdriver against the sight, and hitting the tip of the screwdriver with a good amount of force will move any sight. Not so with these.
I think these make for a great sight picture as well. I've been using a front FO (same width/height as the Defoors) and the standard Glock rears with the white border blacked out so this is a welcome change.
My G19 is non operational right now with the rear sight half on so I'm a bit anxious on finding a resolution.
I helped Gunslinger put sights on his Gen IV and it was rough going as well. I wonder if Glock changed the spec when they re-designed the standard sights and the aftermarket hasn't caught up to it yet?
B_C
Did you guys end up succeeding? Mine is just a Gen3 G19 with the rougher finish and the front sight had the screw in mount instead of the set pin.
I'm going to order a set tonight for my Gen 2 G-17. Kyle is an outstanding instructor & I'm happy to give him the business. :cool:
I think these look extremely well made and based on the recommendations I order two rears and a complete set (front and rear). I look forward to using them at an upcoming TigerSwan class.
I ordered two rear and one complete set of the Defoor Tactical sights. After speaking to a few other M4C members who were having difficulties getting the rear sight installed, we hypothesized that the sight might be just a tiny bit out of spec. None of us had micrometers to measure so it was just a guess based on our collective brainstorming.
Last Monday, I contacted Ameriglo to ask them if they had any tips. I believe Rick answered the phone. I let him know that I usually use the hammer and punch method and that others had tried sight tools, but we came up empty. He offered to install them for me for free if I sent him my slides. I declined because I wasn't willing to part with 3 of my slides at once. The final solution he came up with was to sell me the excellent MGW sight tool at a discount.
I also told him that the DeFoor front sight I received had a cosmetic imperfection as the lower base of the sight had a protrusion on one side that wasn't properly trimmed. Next, I finally confessed that I had "bubba'd" one of the incompletely installed rear sights while trying to uninstall it on my G19.
Rick offered to exchange the blemished front sight and threw in a new rear. I even told him that it wasn't necessary as it was my stupid mistake, but he persisted (I didn't argue too hard:p). He also said he would check on the measurements of the sights he was sending me. That's just world class service and I plan on using Ameriglo for my future sight purchases.
I got the MGW tool and set of sights today. Upon receiving it, I got to work, locked the slide in, greased the tool, and put some slip2000 EWL on the slide/sight area. The rear sights Rick personally checked were perfect and went on with the sight tool with some minor exertion. The original two rear sights I received took A LOT of torquing to get them on (maybe they were a little big), but I did manage to get them installed. I had the most difficult time getting them on a Gen3 G19 which had one of the newer "rough texture" finishes on the slide. The other two guns were Gen3 G17s with the smooth finish.
Thanks again Rick and Ameriglo for the excellent service.
SeriousStudent
05-24-10, 20:18
Awesome, I am glad to hear it worked out for you. :)
I'm going to order a set of Hackthorn sights tomorrow, but I'm calling Ameriglo first to see what they say about my set.
That will give me two sets of Warren and two of the Ameriglo. I'll be very curious to check my split times with each.
Shadow1198
05-26-10, 23:53
Just received the sights today. Going to install tomorrow, test POI and see how it goes.
Shadow1198
05-27-10, 14:17
Well, installed the sights today. I used the MGW sight tool we had at work also. That rear sight was ridiculously tough. I don't know whether this was the right thing to do or not but, I ended up having to file the bottom of the rear sight a little bit (in the typical fashion) to get it to fit in the rear notch properly. I like the sights, like the sight picture. The only problem is I'm getting shots 1-1.5" low at only 7yds, and I believe closer to 2-3" low at 25yds using the top of the front sight as POA. If I use the middle of the front sight (where a dot would be) as POA, then it hits about right on. I don't know if that little bit of filing was enough to drop POI that much or what, but I think I'll be contacting Ameriglo to see if I just have the wrong height front sight or what. For reference, I'm using a 2 pin 2nd gen Glock 17.
John_Wayne777
05-27-10, 14:47
Filing sights to make them fit is a fairly common requirement.
Shadow1198
05-27-10, 15:21
Yep, that's been my experience. With plenty of other guns.
Used some digital mics, front sight was .165", so factory specs that's good. Rear I'm getting ~.240" which is odd since it should be .256" for the stock height to match. I really don't see how I could have removed ~.016" from the little bit of filing but, I'll double check those numbers once I pop this sight back off. I usually start out with the assumption that, if there's a problem, it's likely my fault. ;) Talked to Rick at Ameriglo, man they have excellent customer service! They just earned a repeat customer. I have a .256" rear on the way, and then it should be spot on POI top of the notch.
Code3Patriot
05-29-10, 09:48
Does anyone know if the Hackathorn front sight would work with the Defoor rear? For me personally it would be a great setup.
Does anyone know if the Hackathorn front sight would work with the Defoor rear? For me personally it would be a great setup.
It'll work, it'll just yield really small light bars (the Hack/Pro Glo front is .140" wide, the Defoor rear has a .150" rear notch width).
Both the Defoor and Hackathorn set-ups give a good amount of daylight around the front blade, think if you don't keep some of that, you won't end up with that great of a picture.
Ameriglo makes so many Glock options, bet you could just make up your own recipe that narrows the daylight a bit for you if that's what you're after, but doesn't tighten the picture up too much.
Robb Jensen
05-29-10, 10:39
It'll work, it'll just yield really small light bars (the Hack/Pro Glo front is .140" wide, the Defoor rear has a .150" rear notch width).
Exactly it would be way slow like a Bullseye type pistol.
What might be nice would be a Hackathorn .140" front sight with a Hackathorn type rear with a notch of .165-170"....IMHO.
I agree that plain black sights are great in bright daylight or when back lit by a light.
I prefer some sort of bright contrast on the front sight, be it orange or white with tritium. I also like tritium on the rear--Ameriglo Operators are my favorite. In low light competition my speed and accuracy suffered with front only tritium. Contrast is also the reason I prefer an illuminated sight (red dot) on my AR versus plain black irons only.
I'd rather deal with the minimal distraction of tritium when I don't need it (perfect lighting) than not have it when I did.
However, if simply indexing on a target at CCW/home defense distances, the argument can be made that sights are superfluous.
Sights are a great cheap way to satisfy the constant urge to modify/upgrade ours weapons until we find what suits us best in most conditions.
The rear sight on the Defoor set has a .150" wide notch. We have the same rear sight with a .180" notch as well.
Filing sights to make them fit is a fairly common requirement.
I've done this on Heinie's and Mepro's-they can be refinished with cold blue--found out that apparantley Trijicons are an alloy that can't-had to paint them:(
I opened the channel and lowered the rear on the Heinie's to get the .150 rear notch and poa/poi at 25
I did look at a set of the Defoor's on a 19 the other day, very nice for a basic set.
On second thought, I'm going to give this a shot. In my spare parts bin I have a .090 Ameriglo front sight and a .150 plain rear. Not quite .115/.150 but the effect is similar. Walking around my dark basement, I could definitely make out the front sight. I may run this in the low light indoor CCW league at my range and see how it works. It is definitely good with a tac light.
I'm going to keep an open mind and give this a try. Kyle's blog is well done and interesting, as well.
ETA: .090 too coarse, .115 ordered.
Business_Casual
06-04-10, 17:55
I got around to ordering and my set showed up today, and they are now mounted on my 6-year old OD G19. They went on with zero drama. The sight picture looks very good and I'll be checking the results at the range Sunday.
ETA - Used these today at the NRA, bad flourescent lighting and all. As expected, they were POA/POI at 25 yards and easy to pick up. Well worth the price.
B_C
keysersoze
06-04-10, 20:43
Thanks in advance, I checked out the site and am interested. I just bought a Glock 21 and hate the stock plastic adjustable sights on it!
kaltesherz
06-04-10, 22:21
I postponed ordering a set for my 19 as I was moving, now that I'm settled in they're sold out... ugh...:(
Shadow1198
06-05-10, 01:24
Well, a little update. Got my replacement rear from Rick at Ameriglo. Their customer service is top notch! Yep, the sights are dead on from 0-25yds. 25yds was POA/POI with the top of the post, as it should be. I really like the sight picture. For me at least, it's made shooting at distance noticeably easier and definitely easier when shooting at speed under well lighted conditions. Here's the results from this morning:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/733581/tn_102_1762.JPG
That was a called flier for the third shot at 25yds. It was only 3 shots since I thought I'd call it quits while I was ahead for the day. LOL
Code3Patriot
06-05-10, 15:20
I postponed ordering a set for my 19 as I was moving, now that I'm settled in they're sold out... ugh...:(
Same here, was waiting until I picked up another G19 today. Hopefully they will be back in stock soon.
For me the front sight covers where the impact is going to be to about 20yds, after somewhere about 30yds for me the impact is again covered to 50yds (for me from 20 to 30yds the impact is on top of the front sight). I haven't shot them past 50yds yet. That's with Federal/American Eagle 115gr FMJ, I haven't tried any other ammo. I also have a kinda heavy trigger Ghost 3.5lb connecter with an older black NY trigger spring.
I finally got to shoot the three I have installed and my experience is similar. The indoor range I went to only goes up to 20 yards, but I found that the tip of the front sight covers the POI at 15-20 yards. From 7-10 yards the POI is a little lower. This was with Sellier and Bellot 115 gr. FMJ copper plate steel case ammo which in the past always seemed loaded a little hotter than WWB and Federal Champion.
Business_Casual
06-13-10, 08:41
The rear sight on the Defoor set has a .150" wide notch. We have the same rear sight with a .180" notch as well.
I know manufacturers don't like to quote lead times... but what is the lead time for getting Defoor's sights back in stock? I want to order a second set!
B_C
The set of these I bought a few weeks ago are now on a G26 and they are do in fact impact exactly at point of aim at 25 yds.
SWATcop556
06-15-10, 21:23
Well I odered two sets a few weeks ago. One was going on a G19 and the other on a G26. I've always prefered a simple sight picture. I finally had some down time at work and went to the armory and sat down to install them.
Started with the G26. Using the newer Glock rear sight tool I could not get them to install, even with very very light filing. They were snug enough I finally broke the roll pin on the sight tool (shitty design IMO too). So after many F-bombs I was able to remove the sight and slide from the sight tool and I was left with a partially installed boogered up rear sight. I've installed hundreds of rear sights and these were by far the biggest pain in the ass. I'm going to try again tonight so wish me luck. I haven't even mess with the second set yet.
I love the sights just not the install so far.
SeriousStudent
06-15-10, 22:35
SWATcop1911 - PM sent.
Shadow1198
06-16-10, 01:59
I had a similar experience Swatcop. I used the MGW sight tool at work, and goddamn that thing took some cranking to get on there. I was starting to get a little worried but I finally got the rear sight in. One thing is for sure, at least that sight isn't accidentally coming off. ;)
SWATcop556
06-16-10, 05:42
Well after giving myself a little cool off time I went back to the sight installation. I replaced the flimsy roll pin with a solid cotter pin. I the filled a little more aggressively on the profile of the next sight. I was finally able to get the sight installed on the G26.
The other rear sight is fubared enough I'm just going to see about replacing it when Ameriglo gets more in stock, my cost of course. I love the sights but the install was a bitch. You are right about one thing though, I doubt even a stout hammer strike would drift that sight.
I'll be able to shoot the G26 Friday morning after shift so I'll report back then.
Robb Jensen
06-16-10, 06:56
Well after giving myself a little cool off time I went back to the sight installation. I replaced the flimsy roll pin with a solid cotter pin. I the filled a little more aggressively on the profile of the next sight. I was finally able to get the sight installed on the G26.
The other rear sight is fubared enough I'm just going to see about replacing it when Ameriglo gets more in stock, my cost of course. I love the sights but the install was a bitch. You are right about one thing though, I doubt even a stout hammer strike would drift that sight.
I'll be able to shoot the G26 Friday morning after shift so I'll report back then.
The newer Glock Inc tool sucks the plastic and metal one. It's really only good for small adjustments. I use the old Glock all metal ones to install Defoor/Ameriglo, Meprolight, and Trijicon sights. They'll even work with the Hackathron sights but I like to use my MGW standard Glock sight tool for these. With all sights except for Trijicons I add a little bit of Militec-1 or Weaponshield to the dovetails to make them easier to install.
SeriousStudent. I'll get your one slide sent to you today. It'll be a few more weeks before we get some Warren sights in.
SeriousStudent
06-16-10, 07:03
.....
SeriousStudent. I'll get your one slide sent to you today. It'll be a few more weeks before we get some Warren sights in.
Woot!!!!! :D Thanks, Robb!
BTW, my set installed relatively smoothly with the liberal application of a ball peen hammer and punch. A nylon punch got ate up but a steel punch won. It was tight but doable. Pretty much the same experience as installing previous AmeriGlo sets and Warren sets.
SWATcop556
06-16-10, 16:33
I completely agree that the new Glock sight tool sucks. I much prefer the old all metal one. I just need to pick up one of the MGW's for my bench. I added some lube to the dovetails and after a little filing they finally went on.
Looks like the Defoor Tactical sights are back in stock......
http://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/pistol-sights/glock/black-sights/complete-sets
kaltesherz
06-25-10, 01:46
Looks like the Defoor Tactical sights are back in stock......
http://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/pistol-sights/glock/black-sights/complete-sets
Thanks for the heads up, just ordered a set... the discount code still works too!
Found the link for these but where do you order these on his site?
Never mind I found it.
http://www.kyledefoor.com/2010/03/defoor-tactical-sights-for-glocks.html
http://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/pistol-sights/glock/black-sights/complete-sets
Got and installed a taller rear from Ameriglo... Found that with almost all of the ammo I was using the POI was off a bit, in 9mm seemed all but only some 147gr loads would hit low (Glock 17).
With the taller rear (GL-401) everything I've tried has been hitting exactly at the top of the front blade now, from 7-25 yards.
The POI before was only really an inch or so lower but it was enough that I did have a few pieces of steel refuse to fall shooting a plate rack do to low hits, and was guessing some on small bulls at distance as I had to cover them up with the front blade when using the lower rear, all is dead-on now though.
Ameriglo gave me a big price break to try going to the taller rear, $12 shipped I think, they're just a great company to do business with, doubt most outfits would do that so they deserve some kudos IMO.
These are great no nonsense sights.
Just transitioned from N/S to these. Fast acquisition, clean sight picture. Highly recommend. Will order again for the G34. As always, Ameriglo is a pleasure to do business with.
Just ordered a set for my GSSF gun which is Glock 17 Gen 1 made in 1987.
I had thought of using a plain black Warren rear with a serrated Heinie front but this is way easier.
I just installed them on my Gen I G17. Purchased in '88 my first pistol. Taken a few courses under Kyle and they are fantastic for the 25YD B8 targets. Only issue with mine was minute filing to fit the rear. Carefully.... I beat the shit out of the rear sight in my zeal to get it on. Ordered another. Thank goodness for the discount code. My bad.
Come to think of it I have an extra front sight if someone would like to have it. PM for particulars.
twitch1706
11-16-10, 15:09
I hope my necropost isn't too out of line...
I just placed my order for a set of these sights and for the record the promo code is still valid.
And now the waiting game begins...
Any recent purchasers able to comment on whether or not I'm in for a hell of a time installing the rear?
I just pulled the trigger on a set, The stock plastic has to go.
Shadow1198
11-25-10, 02:14
My rear sight was a PITA to install. I was sweating it turning the MGW sight tool that hard, and was just waiting for something to break, but it went in. I don't know if it's ever coming back out. ;)
Any recent purchasers able to comment on whether or not I'm in for a hell of a time installing the rear?
My rear sight was a PITA to install. I was sweating it turning the MGW sight tool that hard, and was just waiting for something to break, but it went in. I don't know if it's ever coming back out. ;)
If the sight will not push 1/4 to 1/3 of the way in with finger pressure alone you need to do a little polishing on the bottom of the sight.
I lay some emery cloth down and sand the bottom of the sight until I can push it just slightly beyond 1/4 of the way into the slide with firm finger pressure then I use my sight pusher to press it in the rest of the way.
I've never had one move, even using the rear sight to rack the slide on one-handed manipulations.
Work smarter, not harder.
;)
By the way, I had the same issue as you, but I found that it helped to turn the MGW tool hard, then reverse it to take the tension off as the Defoor sight is angled and the slope on the MGW tool would cause the pusher to start applying down pressure making it even harder to turn. By turning, backing off, and re-turning, the down pressure was reduced and although it was still hard as hell to turn, it was much easier than just turning one way.
For the record, I messed up the first one badly (sight could not be drifted at all), ended up ordering the MGW tool from Ameriglo, and installed three rear sights successfully. I figured out to reverse the tension during the second install and the third one went much smoother. I didn't even have to file them.
My rear sight was a PITA to install. I was sweating it turning the MGW sight tool that hard, and was just waiting for something to break, but it went in. I don't know if it's ever coming back out. ;)
Alpha Sierra
11-26-10, 09:50
So do these sights setup to have the bullet impact at the tip of the front sight or do you cover your POI with the front blade?
I personally have to cover the POI with the front blade.
If I place the tip of the front blade where I want the bullet to go, it ends up low.
I have noticed that with my G17s, the POA/POI are at the tip or just under it. However, with my G19, I have to cover the POI with the front blade as well. I only use the Defoor front sight on one gun (G17) and the other two (G17 and G19) had HiViz overmolded fiber optic fronts that were the same height and similar width.
On my G19, I ended up going back to the factory plastic sight with the screw mount, and shaving off a little material at the tip. It now hits POA/POI at 20 yards, and the POI is just a little (1"-1.5") under the POA at 3-7 yards. I did this until I could decide on a more quality combination to go with.
I personally have to cover the POI with the front blade.
If I place the tip of the front blade where I want the bullet to go, it ends up low.
Just tried a buddies and fell in love with the sights. Was this just a limited run or something? I can't seem to find them anywhere. All I can find are the standard ones without tritium.
They have them still, for 9s/40s/45GAPS (GT-504) and the 10s/45s/357SIGS (GT-505)
http://www.ameriglo.net/catalog/sights/pistol-sights/glock/black-sights/complete-sets
But are the kyle operator style night sights still available?
Kyle Defoor only put his name on the all black sights. Are you talking about the Operators?
wicked_police
12-18-10, 21:54
I've had a set on my Gen4 G17 since the summer. They're terrific sights, great picture and easy to pic up quickly.
david.bergen
04-14-11, 15:28
I would like to try them.
If someone can send a set to Belgium I can compare them to my Heinie sights.
Maybe they even fit with the Roni conversion stock as the Heinie doesn't.
Of course I pay the sights and shipping.:)
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