View Full Version : Why can I hold a tighter pattern with a G26 vs. my 19 and 17?
I've been shooting G in 9mm for years. I just picked up a 26 and that little bugger smokes my others. Do I limp wrist without realizing? Is it something to do with the shorter frame? But at 15 yards this is now P4P my favorite handgun of all times.
I don't know either but I'm pretty damn accurate (it's a sliding scale...) with my G26 too. That little bugger is a fantastic shooter.
It's going to be my EDC and I'm thinking G19 mags with the sleeves for back up.
I'd like to know if anyone has one with the Big Dot XS sights and if they work well together.
This is not unheard of. I have no empirical evidence to support this theory, but I think it has to do with the short grip and barrel.
You have less grip surface area to exert pressure on, so the shot isn't pulled as far off target with a bad grip.
Also, when you flinch, no matter how slight, the barrel will move as the shot breaks. The longer the barrel, the more magnified this effect is at the muzzle.
I have noticed this also... my groups are much tighter with my 27 than with my 22 and 23. I can't explain it either.
This is not unheard of. I have no empirical evidence to support this theory, but I think it has to do with the short grip and barrel.
You have less grip surface area to exert pressure on, so the shot isn't pulled as far off target with a bad grip.
Also, when you flinch, no matter how slight, the barrel will move as the shot breaks. The longer the barrel, the more magnified this effect is at the muzzle.
This is such a widely reported phenom it's driving me nuts. I used to figure it was just the lockup with the recoil spring but someone on the big G26 speculated the short grip wedged into your palm prevented "heeling" it. Made me wonder if there isn't some leverage dynamic we haven't pinned down yet. It's been so widely reported among experienced shooters since the baby glocks came onto the scene, it's got to have a reason.
my 19 shoots way better groups than my 27. my slow fire groups are near touching with the 19 at 15 yards.
while everyone touts the longer sight radius as an advantage for some folks they can actually focus better on a short sight plain.
As we get older most of us will shoot better with shorter sight radius. I studied with Col Cooper for many years, in pictures of him, you will notice over the years even though he maintains his weaver stance, the pistol got closer to his face in his later years.
This may be part of the reason some shoot better with a g26/27 over a 22/17.
RAM Engineer
04-02-10, 18:16
I had a Glock 26 years ago that shot like a death ray. It was stolen about 8 years ago and I never replaced it. I need to do that...
We were just talking about this in another thread. I too was amazed at how well my G27 shot compared to my G22. At least as accurate, if not better!
SWATcop556
04-02-10, 18:22
My G26 is an accurate little bastard. While I don't shoot it better than my G17 or G19 it is by far the most accurate subcompact handgun I've shot to date. When off-duty it's definitely an EDC.
I have noticed this also... my groups are much tighter with my 27 than with my 22 and 23. I can't explain it either.
I consistantly shoot my G27 better than my 22 and 23 too. I don't have a G26....yet.
I've noticed this with my G22 and G27
Here's a possibility:
"This is because the barrels and slides are proportionally thicker and more rigid on these short guns, and also because the double captive recoil spring that softens kick so effectively also guaranteed that the bullet is out of the barrel before the mechanism begins to unlock." -Massad Ayoob, The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery, 5th edition
It's going to be my EDC and I'm thinking G19 mags with the sleeves for back up.
I'd like to know if anyone has one with the Big Dot XS sights and if they work well together.
The grip sleeves aren't needed for the reloads, only for the one in the gun if you need/want a G19 sized grip.
I have XS 25/7 Big Dots on most of my Glocks, including my G26s, they work just fine together.
I too have noted the difference in accuracy, it is common for our folks to outshoot their own duty gun score on the quals when using their G26.
happens to me too sometimes.. :confused:
it's quite an impressive little pistol.
I've noticed this with my G22 and G27
Here's a possibility:
"This is because the barrels and slides are proportionally thicker and more rigid on these short guns, and also because the double captive recoil spring that softens kick so effectively also guaranteed that the bullet is out of the barrel before the mechanism begins to unlock." -Massad Ayoob, The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery, 5th edition
hmmmm . . . good stuff. Wonder if that could also explain why a good number of M&P Pro 9 shooters, myself included do not see very impressive groups when shooting for such and standard length M&Ps seem to print the flashy groups (Todd Green's on his website the most flashy).
This is such a widely reported phenom it's driving me nuts. I used to figure it was just the lockup with the recoil spring but someone on the big G26 speculated the short grip wedged into your palm prevented "heeling" it. Made me wonder if there isn't some leverage dynamic we haven't pinned down yet. It's been so widely reported among experienced shooters since the baby glocks came onto the scene, it's got to have a reason.
i think the 26 does force you into a more perfect grip. slow fire i can frequently out shoot my g19. the 19 is faster, from the holster, on target, and followup shots, just due to the extra grip.
Has anyone observed this phenomenon with the full size M&P versus the compact Smith?
brushy bill
04-12-10, 16:37
It's going to be my EDC and I'm thinking G19 mags with the sleeves for back up.
I'd like to know if anyone has one with the Big Dot XS sights and if they work well together.
Personal observation is that for me, any speed with the big dots are more than offset by loss of precision at distance
Better performance from the subcompacts is not as much of mechanical origin as it is shooter origin. The shorter grip provides less surface for shooters to exert force upon. The force that is exerted tends to be more uniform, consistent, and of the proper type.
So reliable is the phenomenon that many instructors use the subcompacts when remediating struggling shooters.
Folks tend to overestimate the value of sight radius. Good, consistent employment of fundamentals of marksmanship is far more important. Sight radius, while not without value, is a crutch for many. (This, also applicable to the AR-types.)
Folks tend to overestimate the value of sight radius. Good, consistent employment of fundamentals of marksmanship is far more important. Sight radius, while not without value, is a crutch for many. (This, also applicable to the AR-types.)
I found this to be very true. I had a G24 (40 cal longslide) barrel and slide on my G22 frame, and I didn't shoot a bit better than my compact G27 when it came to accuracy.
The dramatically longer sight radius made no difference.
SmokeJumper
04-12-10, 19:10
I too have found this to be the case between my G27 and G23. The first range trip with the G27 was to shoot it and qualify with it for carry. I ran some rounds through it to get the feel and then qualified with it. I had to shoot from the 25 yrd. line for a couple of rounds in the qual and surprised myself at making some head shots from the 25 line. I could not do that with the gun the G27 was replacing. I don't have a G26, but I will get one in the future for a compact 9mm.
Several years ago I went to a club to shoot a IDPA classifier, then a match afterwords. During the classifier I was shooting my G34 and the rear sight flew off. I continued to shoot the classifier without the rear sight. Lets just say no rear sight humbled me.
I decided to stay and shoot the match with my G26 with standard mag in gun and G17 mags for reloads. I smoked everyone in my division by a long shot. Yes some of the guys I battle back and forth with in my division were surprised by my performance with the 26, as was I.
decodeddiesel
04-13-10, 10:34
Has anyone observed this phenomenon with the full size M&P versus the compact Smith?
Yes, on my M&P9C vs M&P9 FS.
RogerinTPA
04-13-10, 17:32
Yes, on my M&P9C vs M&P9 FS.
Me too. Can't explain it.
mkmckinley
04-14-10, 04:45
Well, this is just one more reason I'm going to have to get an m&p9c.
I am a much better shot with my Glock 26 vs my 19. I have always noticed it, I just attributed it to having a better grip for my hand...
I shoot better with my 17 compared to my 19. Its been along time since I shot a 26, so I may have to give it a try again and compare.
I had the same thing happen to me in the late 80's with S&W's 3rd gen .45's. One of my students had a 4516 compact that he couldn't qualify with. I picked it up and couldn't miss with it. I shot it better than my full size which he could qualify with. Unfortunately I was recently married and couldn't afford another gun or I would have snatched one up toot sweet.
buckshot1220
04-15-10, 21:37
So most of the replies about pressures exerted on the grip surface, dual recoil springs slowing the action down and less barrel length lessening the drift from a flinch are all plausible and in my mind probably are some of the actual reasons. I too shoot smaller guns better than the full sized variants in most cases.
Now I'm going to go out on a limb. Ever notice that the sights from say a G26 are the same as those on, say, a G17 or even G34. Well if my line of thinking is correct, it would seem that the further away from each other the sights move, such as with a longer barrel and slide, the front sight becomes visually smaller. In such situation, there would be more open real estate between the rear sight notch on each side and the front sight making precise aiming a little tougher. Could someone here with a subcompact and fullsize Glock which wear the exact same make and model sights take a look and see if there is a smaller "visual gap" on the sub vs. full? I have my HK's here, but they have different rear sights (one gap is .140 and one .170) so they will not work for this experiment.
If this is the case, it would seem that the fix would be to make the front sight of each subsequently longer firearm proportionately wider.
Has anyone observed this phenomenon with the full size M&P versus the compact Smith?
Yes, but I've never really done any sort of scientific tests to verify. I personally think I try to shoot more difficult evolutions with my full-size...
Runningman
04-18-10, 03:14
Interesting thread. I to have noticed the subcompact glocks G26, G27, G33 take your pick shoot extremely well for me.
Before that I noticed the same phenomenon occurring in 3rd generation S&W. I could shoot smaller groups at 25 yards with a 4013 3 1/2" than with a 4006 4". Same with the 6906 vs 5906.
I'm almost convinced there is a mechanical reason why. Judging by primer/firing pin wipe the S&W 4013 seems to stay locked up for a longer duration compared to a 4006. I'm thinking it is geometry issue common to a modified tilt lock design. Shorter barrel = longer lock up time. But don't know this for a fact.
b.richards
04-20-10, 09:45
All this time, I thought it was just me. Nice to see that many others find the sub-compacts to be more accurate. It kinda seems counter-intuitive but I do shoot considerably better with the smaller frame versions of my Glocks.
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