View Full Version : Range PC
Went to my local range last night. I printed some Bin Laden targets. One of the range guys who signs you in. Tapped me on the shoulder. He said I could not use that target or any other face target. He told me it may offend someone. I said he is a Terrorist. Who would kill you or me just by looking at us. He told me knew. So we have PC at the range.
Count Chocula
04-03-10, 20:24
Ghey:rolleyes:
thats pretty common, they all have their own reasons- a local indoor range in Portland claims they dont allow binladen targets because someone put up a Bill Clinton target and the Secret Service was called.
how we can compare the world's most wanted shoot-on-sight man to the President of the United States, i dont know... but thats their line.
How much is he worth? 20 Mil if you can find him.
it's at least $50 mil.. they doubled it from $25 back in like 06
i wonder what the conditions are... dead or alive? maybe i should be rethinking my career choices...
That's IF you could get any where near him.
That's IF you could get any where near him.
since he's either chillin with mad bitches in an arabian palace, or buried deep within the Tribal Areas between a'stan and p'stan.... he might as well be on the moon, to the mercenary.
thats pretty common, they all have their own reasons- a local indoor range in Portland claims they dont allow binladen targets because someone put up a Bill Clinton target and the Secret Service was called.
how we can compare the world's most wanted shoot-on-sight man to the President of the United States, i dont know... but thats their line.
wow..
my range sells bin ladin and saddam targets. i think the saddams are out of production though.
i guess if some al quada cell was training at your range they might be offended by people shooting at bin laden targets :confused:
wow..
my range sells bin ladin and saddam targets. i think the saddams are out of production though.
i guess if some al quada cell was training at your range they might be offended by people shooting at bin laden targets :confused:
dont call it MY range, partner. i dont even go into Portland unless i have to.
dont call it MY range, partner. i dont even go into Portland unless i have to.
:D haha sorry...
"a" range?
ChicagoTex
04-03-10, 23:17
i think the saddams are out of production though.
Does seem kind of pointless to shoot a guy who's already dead, doesn't it?
Ah the offense principle strikes again. You're not harming anyone if you use a picture of Bin Laden, George Bush, Barack Obama, Brad Pitt, Wayne LaPierre, etc. Personally I think using a target with human features makes it more practical. I mean, people have facial features, not just some off-white empty face and a blue outline of their head.
It's all about someone in power saying that they wouldn't do it themselves so anyone lower than them can't do it.
Thats some BS. I guess there is ups and downs to a unpoliced range. Just go early, idiots dont get out at the crack of dawn on a saturday to shoot usually :D
since he's either chillin with mad bitches in an arabian palace, or buried deep within the Tribal Areas between a'stan and p'stan.... he might as well be on the moon, to the mercenary.
My father is convinced that he's really driving a cab in NYC and laughing at all of us.
The whole target business is ridiculous. Some states - like Massachusetts - have even tried to enact laws prohibiting shooting at human or human-shaped targets. Louis Awerbuck recounted a story one time about how he went to teach a class of LEOs in (I think) California and the brass initially freaked out and wouldn't let him use his usual targets because they were human-shaped. Go figure on that one. What did they think he'd be teaching them to do? Hunt wild pigs with their service pistols? He told off the brass in a manner that only Louis could do and then ran the class with his evil humanoid targets.
I think this poor guy has been shot in the face more than any person in history.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21MCSJWBQFL._SL500_AA200_.jpg
Complication
04-04-10, 10:46
First let me say that's dumb. There are a few people in history that have earned their mug on a target (bin Laden, Hitler, Stalin, etc.). But that makes as much sense as PETA rolling in and telling you that you can't shoot at varmint targets.
Nevertheless, I've been wracking my brain all morning trying to come up with a rationale behind this. It's flimsy but this is all I've got:
With some of the rhetoric floating around about the last two presidents, if you allow bin Laden or Hitler or Stalin targets, it's only a matter of time before some jackass shows up with a target in the likeness of Bush or Obama and says, "hey, they're basically the same!" And as bkb0000's story illustrates, a visit from the Secret Service is bad news for everyone involved.
And as anyone who has ever managed something open to the public knows, it's 100% easier to place a blanket ban on something (i.e. "no photo-realistic targets" or "no targets that look like specific people") than it is to make specific exceptions. After all, it's a lot easier to point to a sign and say, "look, that's just range policy" than it is to explain why a target of the President is not allowed. Because face it, anyone who walks in with that kind of target isn't going to be amenable to the logic or reason you've got to back up your decision.
Not the strongest of rationales, but it's no surprise that the "lowest common denominator" (read: some jackass) ruins all the fun for the rest of us.
I'd bargain it's more for the fear that a guy shows up with pics of his ex, boss or (insert names of who he's going to kill here) and later on actually carries it out. In this day, that's a multi-million dollar lawsuit waiting to happen because you "knew" he was going to do "something" and didn't call the cops.
Where does this come from? The NRA.
Most outdoor ranges are organized as "clubs" and most are associated with the NRA.
The NRA has a set of "model safety rules" - one of those is "no human or human-torso shaped targets."
Others include:
-no rapid fire ie no more than one aimed shot per second
-no more than 5 rounds / 8 rounds loaded in a magazine
-no shooting from a holster
Most commercial indoor ranges are not so associated. And those are the ranges where I have seen UBL targets used, Saddam targets, etc.
BTW - NRA actuall has their own torso shaped target called the B27. It is designed for and used in NRA "PPC" competition.
YOU are banned from competing in PPC, even if you are a life member of the NRA (unless you are a police officer that is). NO amount of money donated to the NRA will get you into a PPC championship (even though PPC is supported with YOUR NRA dollars).
As a civilian , you can go shoot in "Action Pistol" - but the NRA targets they give you are a round bullseye on a tombstone-shaped target. :(
If you do not like this sort of PC crap, tell it to the NRA (but don't expect them to listen).
PS - I am not "anti-NRA" in the big picture at all. Yes, I KNOW that they are on our side; yes I KNOW that they are the largest organization, yes I KNOW that "if it weren't for the NRA . .. . " OK? Please limit comments to the scope of THIS thread & don't try to turn my comments into general NRA bashing which THEY ARE NOT. I simply think the NRA could change the way they do certain things - starting with their "model range safety rules."
LMarshall73
04-05-10, 12:48
I get comments regularly on my realistic targets. The only people that give me any grief are the range workers. I just tell them I don't anticipate being attacked by circles, so why train for it?
Kinda reminded me of that scene in JFK where the guy at the range hollered at Oswald for shooting at his target and he said "I thought I was shooting at that SOB Kennedy".
That probably locks in peoples head and they don't want to chance it.
CarlosDJackal
04-05-10, 13:27
I once belongs to a club where the non "Combat" Pistol shooters complained that we w ere using "humanoid" targets with shirts on top of them. These were IPSC targets that we used for our in-club competition before the IDPA became so popular.
I once belongs to a club where the non "Combat" Pistol shooters complained that we w ere using "humanoid" targets with shirts on top of them. These were IPSC targets that we used for our in-club competition before the IDPA became so popular.
Why were they complaining? How was it affecting their recreation, competition, or enjoyment? What a bunch of turds.
It's amazing to me how critical and Balkanized the "shooting community" or "gun club community" can be. If you only like shooting black circles with spaceguns, or shooting clay disks with $10,000 shotguns, that's cool. Spend time doing that, not shitting on other shooting activities.
John_Wayne777
04-05-10, 13:49
If people realistically had the capability to mind their own damn business we wouldn't have half the problems we have in this country.
Case in point:
I'm at Wally-world doing my usual ammo crawl and there's a Marine there trying to explain to the sales staff (one of whom is mildly retarded...no kidding) why his military ID is sufficient for the purposes of purchasing a firearm. I, of course, am purchasing as much 9mm ammo as possible.
Some dude there buying a fishing license feels the need to comment on the Marine's shotgun purchase not requiring a waiting period. He saw that I bought 600 rounds of ammo and was similarly horrified.
"Why on earth do you need that many bullets?"
"Are you worried that I'm going to start shooting at you with them?" I asked.
Blank stare, stammering.
"Are you worried that I'm going to start shooting at the people here in the store? " I asked.
Blank stare, stammering.
"Are you worried that a US Marine who is issued machineguns and explosives is going to go on some sort of murder spree with a single-shot shotgun he bought at Walmart?" I asked.
Blank stare.
"I fail to see the problem here. It's legal to buy this stuff and neither of us are going to shoot at you with anything we just bought, so perhaps your concerns are unfounded. Have a nice night, sir."
Well put! I'd expect that sort of wall-mart shopper in areas well to our north; not so much down here in va. Good on you for setting him straight on reality (woulda been even funnier had you been open-carrying at the time). :D
Wal-Mart Idiocy
That's par for the course at Wal-Mart. They had their 40 round packs of Winchester .223 55gr FMJ on "clearance" for a very low price a couple years ago, so I cleaned out one of the local stores of their remaining 900 rounds or so. The lady behind the counter asked me if I was going to war.
my walmart still wont sell more than two "boxes" per customer per day, even though their shelves are perpetually full, now.
my walmart still wont sell more than two "boxes" per customer per day, even though their shelves are perpetually full, now.
I think thats just every walmart now. You can only get 3 boxes of (x) type of ammo per customer per day. Unless your tricky enough to catch shift changes. Ive noticed .40 smiths are plentiful but no 9 or .45 hardly at all......
Is this a public or privately owned range? If its publicly owned/operated, tell the RO that shooting at targets representing the most vile terrorist in modern history is legitimate personal political expression. Did people in WWII go to the range with pictures of Tojo and Hitler? I bet they did... Post the name of the range and have about 20 or 30 people show up calmly and courteously with Bin Laden targets and a video recorder. Have everyone trickle in over an hour or so, then at the next cease fire, everyone go forward and hang their targets... Post it on YouTube.
Belmont31R
04-05-10, 20:00
Yep its the stupid NRA range rules many of us are forced to deal with. No rapid fire, no shooting from the draw, no humanoid targets, etc.
Thanks NRA!!! :rolleyes:
I think this poor guy has been shot in the face more than any person in history.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21MCSJWBQFL._SL500_AA200_.jpg
Oi! That's Keith Richards with his old lady!
arizonaranchman
04-05-10, 22:45
I guess that's why I'm blessed to be able to shoot right here on my own property at home - I'm my own rangemaster...
I guess that's why I'm blessed to be able to shoot right here on my own property at home - I'm my own rangemaster...
yes, you are- and dont ever take it for granted. i'd love nothing more than to have a range for a backyard.
I guess that's why I'm blessed to be able to shoot right here on my own property at home - I'm my own rangemaster...
blessed is about right. Up until about 19 months ago, I was in the same position. Able to shoot anytime I wanted on my property. Relocated and am in the city now, it sucks. Have to pack up & drive to the range (& deal with the yahoos) just to chrono some new loads, test fire after mods, etc. Grr...
I guess that's why I'm blessed to be able to shoot right here on my own property at home - I'm my own rangemaster...
arizona m4carbine.net shoot? :p i couldn't make it if ya had one, but it would be a blast!
Ah the offense principle strikes again.
Yep. We're banned from using any target that suggests a human or humanoid shape, just to avoid possibly scaring a group of people that aren't legally allowed to have physical access to the range anyway :rolleyes:
But that makes as much sense as PETA rolling in and telling you that you can't shoot at varmint targets.
I knew a bowyer who ran a field archery club - hunting with bows is illegal here so they used to set up animal shaped targets along a course in the woods. Some animal rights groups broke into his workshop and trashed all the targets because it 'encouraged people to be violent towards animals' :rolleyes:
I am pretty fortunate to have some decent ranges where I have been, no one has ever mentioned anything about any targets. I have used zombie silhouettes with some looks in the past, but that was to be expected. I wonder if the ranges in question would harass anyone who use a picture of themselves? Might make for a good story.
ChicagoTex
04-06-10, 12:01
I wonder if the ranges in question would harass anyone who use a picture of themselves? Might make for a good story.
That's a hilarious idea. I want to try it!
rifleman2000
04-06-10, 12:07
At Black Creek, the range office sells silhouettes for 15 cents a pop. And we can fire from the holster. Rapid fire is... sometimes you get away with it and sometimes you don't. I have done rapid fire with an AR15 at the 25 yd range with the range owner standing behind me watching. I hit my target, and there were no issues.
I like my range.
John_Wayne777
04-06-10, 12:09
That's par for the course at Wal-Mart. They had their 40 round packs of Winchester .223 55gr FMJ on "clearance" for a very low price a couple years ago, so I cleaned out one of the local stores of their remaining 900 rounds or so. The lady behind the counter asked me if I was going to war.
If it would not involve subsequent unpleasant interactions with law enforcement and mental health professionals, I would dearly love to respond to such an idiotic interrogatory with behavior commensurate with the stupidity of the question.
I'm torn as to which would be the better approach, though...would it be better to take the Deliverance you-got-a-pretty-mouth approach, or the full-on Jack Nicholson-in-a-few-good-men "YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I'M GOING TO WAR!!! YOU MESSED WITH THE WRONG MARINE!!!" thing, or perhaps the gunny Hartman barrage of insults?
These are questions I ask myself when in the midst of the stupid in an effort to turn the insufferable into the absurdly hilarious. It helps to lower the blood pressure and prevent an unpleasant episode.
Besides...the voices in my head really like it.
I am pretty fortunate to have some decent ranges where I have been, no one has ever mentioned anything about any targets. I have used zombie silhouettes with some looks in the past, but that was to be expected. I wonder if the ranges in question would harass anyone who use a picture of themselves? Might make for a good story.
It could be quite the conversation starter.
Range person: "Why are you shooting at a picture of yourself?"
Possible answers:
Because I'm my own worst enemy.
That's not me, that's my jackass twin brother.
A picture of who, now?
I caught that guy screwing my wife.
Because my multiple personality disorder ends TODAY.
rifleman2000
04-06-10, 12:12
If it would not involve subsequent unpleasant interactions with law enforcement and mental health professionals, I would dearly love to respond to such an idiotic interrogatory with behavior commensurate with the stupidity of the question.
I'm torn as to which would be the better approach, though...would it be better to take the Deliverance you-got-a-pretty-mouth approach, or the full-on Jack Nicholson-in-a-few-good-men "YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I'M GOING TO WAR!!! YOU MESSED WITH THE WRONG MARINE!!!" thing, or perhaps the gunny Hartman barrage of insults?
These are questions I ask myself when in the midst of the stupid in an effort to turn the insufferable into the absurdly hilarious. It helps to lower the blood pressure and prevent an unpleasant episode.
Besides...the voices in my head really like it.
Maybe you could just stand there quietly and stare at them... twenty minutes later when they get freaked out you still have not done anything they can toss you for or call the police for.
If it would not involve subsequent unpleasant interactions with law enforcement and mental health professionals, I would dearly love to respond to such an idiotic interrogatory with behavior commensurate with the stupidity of the question.
Whenever I get asked an idiotic question about the size of my ammo purchase, after I ask myself why I came back to [idiot-infested store] in the first place, I usually just tell the person, truthfully and deadpan: "No, I'm not [doing/planning whatever outrageous act has been suggested] - I'm just topping off my supply." The idea that somebody might have a "legitimate" use for more than a couple boxes of ammo never dawns on them, so this scares them (this punishing their idiocy in some measure) without getting me pink papered to Eastern State Hospital for evaluation.
That generally draws either a blank, doe-eyed stare or some nervous laughter.
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