Best California Legal AR-15 or M4

[Ammo Sphere]

Hey Guys,

I have myself a secondary side arm, but I'm interested in getting a California legal Ar-15. I understand the Department of Justice has a whole list of what you can't have. I'm interested in seeing what people on this forum have done. I understand a few things:

1) Must be under 10 round mag

2) Cannot have selective switch to full auto

3) The DOJ has been specific models illegal.

So what's the best Califronia Legal AR-15 or M4? From what I see at local store everyone needs to build their own.

[TOMTOM]

you should go read up on Calguns.net

start with this:

http://calnra.com/cgi-bin/flowchart.cgi

as long as you use a lower receiver that is "off list", you can essentially build a AR-15 like everyone else.

you can go two routes: maglock (any 'evil' features, but 10 round mags) *Remember, if you use a maglock on your rifle, DONT use mags larger than 10 rounds! that makes it an illegal Assault Weapon.

or 'featureless'. no FH, pistol grip, adjustable stock, or vertical foregrip. by going this route, you can use detachable mags. You can use high capacity mags IF you owned them IN CA prior to 2000.

For example; I have a few AR's. I have built up, all on CMMG lowers (since they're not banned). one has a 14.5" LMT upper, one has a 18" Sabre upper, and the other has a 16" BCM midlength.

Since I didnt own high cap mags before 2000, I decided to go with a maglock (bullet button). I can have a flash hider, collapsible stock, and pistol grip. the maglock makes the rifle incapable of having 'detachable mags', since you need to use a tool to release them.

There is alot of information, and i'm sure i'm missing ALOT. your best bet is to read on Calguns exactly how to stay Cali-legal, but still have a very nice rifle.

[Terryw123]

I would go with a Noveske. I could not be happier with their products. I have an N4 and N6. They have been unbelievably reliable and accurate. The only downfall is they are on the expensive side.

[PRGGodfather]

Check out www.riflegear.com

They offer pre-made CA Legal DD carbines, and Cal DOJ has given them their blessing. Kind of a one-stop shop for this, IMHO.

[TOMTOM]

Check out www.riflegear.com

They offer pre-made CA Legal DD carbines, and Cal DOJ has given them their blessing. Kind of a one-stop shop for this, IMHO.

Yes they offer CA-ready carbines, but they are not CA DOJ 'blessed'.

[PRGGodfather]

Ok, please forgive me for overstating it.

When I say "blessing" I mean CA DOJ has done nothing else to stop them from coming in -- which is a far cry from just a few years ago, when CA DOJ agents were actually calling out of state manufacturers and discouraging them from selling off-list lowers in CA (a questionable practice as to interstate commerce).

The whole bullet button thing is ridiculous, IMHO.

I should have said,

Check out www.riflegear.com. They have several CA legal AR-type rifles. Period.

My profession demands I know the legal aspects of such emasculated rifles, but I don't own any. Frankly, I don't see the point, but hey -- if it gets you through the night, knock yourself out.

[TOMTOM]

Didnt mean to come off rude. just dont want people thinking that DD rifles are gtg in CA without any modifications. I'm just a regular guy stuck in a liberal state who wants to own an AR type rifle.

[leopard hound]

link..... http://blog.riflegear.com/archive/2007/12/26/hello-kitty-ar-15---evil-black-rifle-meets-cute-and.aspx

[leopard hound]

:D:D:D

[thmpr]

1) LMT MRP
2) Any non listed lower (except Hesse) and add a KAC SR15 Upper!!!
3) Noveske
4) JP Rifle
5) Colt (several models to choose from)

[Magic_Salad0892]

Everybody knows my recommendation by now.

LWRCi, or KAC.

If you're trying to save money, Daniel Defence.

[BMWguy206]

Everybody knows my recommendation by now.

LWRCi, or KAC.

If you're trying to save money, Daniel Defence.

I live in CA so I ended up with a Daniel Defense DDM4 as my first AR15 from Riflegear. As soon as I bought it they installed the bullet button. They also give you a 10/30 round magazine.

Ammo Sphere - what is your budget? Where in CA do you live? What are you going to do with the AR15 just target shooting or going to take some tactical courses? Do you want a rail up front so you can add a lot of modifications?

[Magic_Salad0892]

DDM4.

Damn good choice.

[Unforgiven]

There is no better gun for the money than a Daniel Defense. Peach State Guns is a California friendly place, they will install bullet button prior to shipping.

[Dos Cylindros]

Honestly, if I didn't already own one that I bought for use on duty I would not even bother. Just buy an M1A Socom 16 and call it a day. While not quite as ergonimically sound as an M4/AR pattern rifle it's still a good battle rifle. I love my AR and thank god that I had the good fortune to have a cheif who saw fit to issue letters for officers who wanted to buy one (unlike the agency I work for now).

That being said, the bullet button is an abortion, and makes the rifle not battle or duty worthy. The main reason being if you have a malfunction (like a double feed), there is no way you are clearing it in anything approaching a reasonable amount of time. If you want one for plinking, target shooting or varmint shooting then have at it, but not for serious purposes.

[Unforgiven]

I'm no fan of the bullet button, but that is why they make the Radlock. If it is for home protection, turn the screw a couple of turns and no bullet button.
Honestly, if I didn't already own one that I bought for use on duty I would not even bother. Just buy an M1A Socom 16 and call it a day. While not quite as ergonimically sound as an M4/AR pattern rifle it's still a good battle rifle. I love my AR and thank god that I had the good fortune to have a cheif who saw fit to issue letters for officers who wanted to buy one (unlike the agency I work for now).

That being said, the bullet button is an abortion, and makes the rifle not battle or duty worthy. The main reason being if you have a malfunction (like a double feed), there is no way you are clearing it in anything approaching a reasonable amount of time. If you want one for plinking, target shooting or varmint shooting then have at it, but not for serious purposes.

[Dos Cylindros]

I'm no fan of the bullet button, but that is why they make the Radlock. If it is for home protection, turn the screw a couple of turns and no bullet button.


The only problem with that is, once you do it you are now a felon. I don't agree with the law AT ALL, but I would not cirumvent it either. Thank god I have a legit one that is not neutered. If I ever wear it out, I will just re-build it until I can retire, move out of state and buy another.

[Unforgiven]

Felon or victim? I choose felon.

[Dos Cylindros]

Felon or victim? I choose felon.


That is a very SOLID point you have and I agree with you. My only problem is that many other legal guns can be used without becoming a victim of the rediculous CA gun laws. For me, part of no being a victim, is also being there to take care of my family after the fight. Can't very well do that from jail, not to mention the fact that you will never be legally able to own a firearm after that.

Let me stress, that even though I am a CA cop, I in no way agree with most of CA gun control laws. That being said, I would not try to find a way around them at the expense of my freedom after the fight.

[Unforgiven]

I have never had a problem using the BB. I have taken several Carbine classes and it is a little more difficult. but it works. I was merely responding to the reply about having a jam or misfeed during the fight. I appreciate your candor.

[RudyN]

Go to Calguns and check the AR Flowchart. It will help a lot. As to which AR to get that is up to you, but I have a Stag Model 2 with a BB and I really like it.. Also have another Stag with the 1H upper and a U15 stock which isn't made anymore as far as I can tell.

[Nippy]

If you want the best CA legal AR-15 or M4 I suggest building one up from parts.

So buy a upper or complete upper (with or w/o handgaurds) of your choice. Noveske probably being the best out there but the most expensive. BCM, LMT are good to go as well.

Find someone to sell you a stripped lower so you can put your BulletButton on it. You can buy the bullet button from riflegear.

Purchase the misc accessories that you want such as stock, grip, handgaurds, BUIS, optics etc.

If you want the best bang for your buck rifle I can recommend something like this:
BCM upper
BCM BCG
Magpul CTR stock
DD Omega 7.0 Rail
Magpul BUIS
Eotech XPS / AimPoint T1 Micro w/ respective La-Rue mounts.
Whatever Stripped Lower Reciever ~ $100-$120.0
DPMS lower parts kit
Lights:Surfire G2LED w/ Viking Tactics light mount
H buffer tube and spring
Bullet Button from Riflegear

I think anyone would be decently happy with that setup if they were to start out.

If you want to go the featureless route I suggest this setup to start you off:
BCM upper
BCM BCG

DD Omega 7.0 Rail
Magpul BUIS
Eotech XPS / AimPoint T1 Micro w/ respective La-Rue mounts.
Whatever Stripped Lower Reciever ~ $100-$120.0
DPMS lower parts kit
Lights:Surfire G2LED w/ Viking Tactics light mount
H buffer tube and spring
ACE Entry skeleton Stock <Fixed Stock>
Primary Weapons Systems TTO compensator <No Flash Suppressor>
SolarTac kydex grip thingy / Exile Machine's hammerhead (http://www.exilemachine.com/gallery.html) Type IV configuration <No Pistol Grip>

The last three are to make your rifle "featureless"

Lastly you won't find anything that has the "blessing" of the CA DOJ since they don't do that anymore. So all BB's/Featureless Grips are not CA DOJ approved but follow the letter of the law. The Calguns flow chart is also distributed to police departments so if you read through it you should be good to go.

[Ian111]

For a CA legal AR I'd prefer to go with a MonsterMan Grip or other grip options that would allow normal mag changes. They may be awkward to use but those who've used them say one can get used to it. In general a bullet button AR is fine for the range but I would not change it out for home defense purposes. You may have legal justification to use deadly force but you're using an illegal weapon. Might as well change it to full auto or get a full auto AK from a crackhead while you're at it if you intend to defend yourself with an illegal weapon.

I prefer other options like a Saiga, Mini-14, M1 Carbine, SKS, or an M1A variant and not add any potential legal problems. They may not be ideal choices but they can do for most of us given the choices we have. Its not like these CA legal AR's is that great of a choice to begin with.

[lowracer]

Exile Machine's hammerhead (http://www.exilemachine.com/gallery.html) Type IV configuration <No Pistol Grip>

Did you mean Type III? Our market surveys show half of our customers deploy our product into a Type III config (grip-only, no pistol buffer tube):

http://exilemachine.com/images/IMG_8499_C.JPG

and the other half split 50/50 between Type I (stock rightside up):

http://exilemachine.com/images/IMG_8497_C.JPG

and Type II (stock inverted).
http://exilemachine.com/images/IMG_8572_C.JPG


Type IV is much less common. Type IV gives you a similar underhand hold as a Monsterman or Kydex wrap.

Just an update we are now making the Hammerhead in injection molded polymer, in both Black and FDE. Weight has been reduced from 14 down to 4.6oz.

-Mark

[FMJs-of-Freedom]

This best Kali AR is when you move out to a free state like I did. FMJs-of-Freedom

[mattjmcd]

Riflegear is pretty good people. They are in OC, though, so prepare to drop some coin in there as they only stock LWRC, DD, Noveske, etc.

IMO though, you might at least consider a more CA-friendly platform like the M1A.

Another good shop is Gunrunners in Duarte. They see *a lot* of LE business, so they are on the up-and-up. Most of my friends from LA County and CHP shop there regularly. Riflegear is more consistent and has a good selection of cool-guy stuff all the time, but Gunrunners has much better pricing. YMMV.