View Full Version : is there an equivalent of m4carbine.net for handguns?
nobody say glocktalk :rolleyes::D
i dig the handgun forum on here, i'm kinda just looking for an expanded version of that.
over the last year and a half i've really moved over to shooting pistols almost exclusively. I figured i better get proficient if i was going to carry, and i've also come to really enjoy pistols more than rifles.
any advice as far as other forums? i'm mostly into production class IPSC, CCW, and defensive pistol tactics. I just own glocks right now, i'm not much of a 1911 guy, i'm interested in sig, HK, smith and wesson etc though.
PdxMotoxer
04-05-10, 02:21
The is a great bunch of guy's over at http://mp-pistol.com/boards/
(warning some are not the biggest glock fans and reading how much these M&P's rock may lead you to buy one... or 2 or 3 ;) )
If your into Ruger LCP's then http://elsiepeaforum.com/forum/index.php is an
absolute must. (Jeff Quinn from Gun Blast recently started posting there and one or 2 other big names in the shooting world)
Kel-Tec fans have a pretty good one over at KTOG, http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl
Those are just the ones i frequent so YMMV.
I say google your interests and read around. (it doesn't take long to see the lessor managed forums by all the fighting and arguing and "know-it-all's" but i'm sure
pretty much EVERY forum is going to have those.
But don't let them shy you away from all the great free knowledge to be had out there.
Good Luck, there are some great ones out there.
John_Wayne777
04-05-10, 06:36
If you are looking for highly detailed technical information (TDP quality information for handguns) then you're going to have a very difficult time finding it in one place IF you can find it at all. The HKPRo guys may know some of that information about H&Ks, the Beretta forum guys may know some of that about Berettas, the Smith & Wesson forum guys may know that sort of information about Smiths, etc.
We have lots of people here on M4C that know handguns extremely well. There's no deeper knowledge pool about the 1911 as a practical sidearm anywhere else on the web.
You may find that some other websites have pockets of useful information about a specific range of firearms, but it's going to be damned difficult to match, let alone exceed, the level of information that's routine here.
Agree with JW. Brand/model-specific forums will potentially have more technical and/or historic information but if you want to know or discuss application issues you're going to weed through a LOT of safe-stuffers, dirt-shooters, and minutia-collectors to get to anything meaningful.
Littlelebowski
04-05-10, 08:33
Jeff Quinn of Gunblast? That guy has never done less than a glowing review of every gun he's reviewed. Pass.
John_Wayne777
04-05-10, 09:14
Of all the other forums I know about, the Smith&Wesson forum is probably the closest to what you may be looking for. There is a VERY low signal to noise ratio over there and there are some guys there who know almost everything there is to know about S&W revolvers.
Jeff Quinn of Gunblast? That guy has never done less than a glowing review of every gun he's reviewed. Pass.While I do like his little insights and observations, you must take his info with a grain of salt as I have never heard a disparaging word on any firearm he has ever reviewed.
nobody say glocktalk :rolleyes::D
i dig the handgun forum on here, i'm kinda just looking for an expanded version of that.
over the last year and a half i've really moved over to shooting pistols almost exclusively. I figured i better get proficient if i was going to carry, and i've also come to really enjoy pistols more than rifles.
any advice as far as other forums? i'm mostly into production class IPSC, CCW, and defensive pistol tactics. I just own glocks right now, i'm not much of a 1911 guy, i'm interested in sig, HK, smith and wesson etc though.
As M4C grows we're constantly looking for ways to improve the forum for our members. If you or anyone else has suggestions please feel free to share them. We'll discuss them internally and if all goes well we will implement the change!
Business_Casual
04-05-10, 09:46
In response to that, I would suggest you expand the pistol forum to be forums. Perhaps separate out the topics, not brands. The constant "which 9mm?" and fantasy questions "only one handgun" threads bring down the level of discussion, in my opinion. Not that I'm not guilty of indulging in those very discussions...
B_C
For instance:
Handguns
- Concealed Carry
- Service Pistols
- 1911 Operators
- Low Light Tactics and Equipment
In response to that, I would suggest you expand the pistol forum to be forums. Perhaps separate out the topics, not brands. The constant "which 9mm?" and fantasy questions "only one handgun" threads bring down the level of discussion, in my opinion. Not that I'm not guilty of indulging in those very discussions...
B_C
For instance:
Handguns
- Concealed Carry
- Service Pistols
- 1911 Operators
- Low Light Tactics and Equipment
That's not a bad suggestion at all. I like that it's not broken down by brand. I would maybe add something for holsters etc. I know that tends to fall in the "Tactical Gear" section now but handgun-specific questions on holsters etc. might be a good idea.
As M4C grows we're constantly looking for ways to improve the forum for our members. If you or anyone else has suggestions please feel free to share them. We'll discuss them internally and if all goes well we will implement the change!
i guess i'd like to see the handgun section expanded. I'm a little hesitant to suggest a glock, hk, sig, ruger, etc subforum, as this place is really focused more on training and tactics and less on gear. Perhaps a concealed carry forum, practical pistol shooting forum, LE/duty forum... could maybe split out revolvers and autos.
I guess my biggest concern is just making sure the forums will each get use, and won't turn into bullshit fests... though i know the mods here won't allow that.
Business_Casual
04-05-10, 10:49
That's not a bad suggestion at all. I like that it's not broken down by brand. I would maybe add something for holsters etc. I know that tends to fall in the "Tactical Gear" section now but handgun-specific questions on holsters etc. might be a good idea.
I thought that IWB would go in Concealed Carry and 6004 would go in Service pistols, but I can see how people wouldn't go that way automatically. I can't figure out exactly how to phrase it, but I think there would be room for a "deployed" handgun user. Issues with IBA and drop legs, etc.
There is a competition forum already, but perhaps an IDPA/IPSC forum as well?
B_C
nobody say glocktalk :rolleyes::D
i dig the handgun forum on here, i'm kinda just looking for an expanded version of that.
over the last year and a half i've really moved over to shooting pistols almost exclusively. I figured i better get proficient if i was going to carry, and i've also come to really enjoy pistols more than rifles.
any advice as far as other forums? i'm mostly into production class IPSC, CCW, and defensive pistol tactics. I just own glocks right now, i'm not much of a 1911 guy, i'm interested in sig, HK, smith and wesson etc though.
http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/
If you want information from people who actually shoot their handguns a lot & under real training conditions (i.e. - from a holster, under time pressure. Not some Ransome-rest group size crap or "slow fire") - then look at www.brianenos.com
When I was into it, I was shooting about 15,000 rounds of handgun ammo per year (i.e. 3 sleeves of primers, 5000 each). ALL of it was rapid fire. Only time I did not draw from a holster, it was because I started with the unloaded gun on a table, gun in a glove-box, gun in a briefcase, etc. I shot handguns in NO LIGHT situations w/ hand-held Surefires, low light, bright sun light, in the rain, over snow, etc. I shot from less-than arms length distance out to about 45 yards. The site is all about that. That site is for people who actually shoot their handguns.
Before anyone pans such shooting as "not tactical enough" - think twice. Look at who shoots this: Magpul's new handgun video was made by a guy who has done all of this type of shooting plus shooting overseas in defense of our great nation (I put him on our old Glock team back in 2005). Most people have seen the Blackwater video featuring Todd Jarrett. He trains those who carry handguns & subguns as part of their job. Many have seen the old Jerry Barnhart (aka "the Burner") videos; Jerry is too busy doing tactical training for those headed to unpleasant places right now to shoot much on the circuit anymore. Guess where he learned to shoot? And all of Ft. Benning's AMU does this sort of shooting; they even host an on-base shoot every year featuring realstic training scenarios (past shoots featured a captured AK, an AT4 simulator, etc). If all that is not "good enough" to be of benefit, I don't know what is.
If your new focus is on actually hitting targets - at speed- with a handgun, then the forum you want is BrianEnos.com
http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/
Those two forums are no better than Glocktalk . . . perhaps worse.
John_Wayne777
04-05-10, 18:10
http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/
Not to toot our own horn here, but there are a LOT of guys who have been carrying concealed in some capacity (including as armed professionals) for a long time here on M4C, and the wisdom they've picked up is often superior to what I see on lots of other websites.
If I have a concealed carry question I'm quite sure I can get a darn good answer here from any number of individuals who know the topic well. I'm by no means the world's foremost expert on concealed carry, but I've done a fair bit of it and I've learned some lessons that have been very valuable to others I've coached about it in my non-internet life as well as my forum time.
As far as the defensive carry forum goes, if this thread is representative of the level of discourse over there, I'm not interested:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/84573-tactical-arms-1911-a.html
We wouldn't tolerate that nonsense here. Ever.
That thread is a good example of why M4C has been structured as it has, because the dominant voices over there were NOT the voices of actual experts, but of people with limited experience and limited understanding. We aspire to be better than that here. :)
SeriousStudent
04-05-10, 18:40
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ms-1911-a.html
:eek:
That thread make baby Jebus cry......
Muttering to self "Stay on M4C....stay on M4C....."
As far as the defensive carry forum goes, if this thread is representative of the level of discourse over there, I'm not interested:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/84573-tactical-arms-1911-a.html
We wouldn't tolerate that nonsense here. Ever.
That thread is a good example of why M4C has been structured as it has, because the dominant voices over there were NOT the voices of actual experts, but of people with limited experience and limited understanding. We aspire to be better than that here. :)
Good Lord... Ahh, WTF does that "Numbnuts" "Idot" tv host LAV know about the 1911 anyway? Obviously not nearly as much as a bunch of those guys anyhow... :rolleyes: ;) :D
Perfect example of why I rarely stray from this site. Gotta thank the owners and mods here for creating an atmosphere where SMEs are welcomed, respected, and have a place to share their knowledge/experience absent a bunch of bugger eaters.
Not to toot our own horn here, but there are a LOT of guys who have been carrying concealed in some capacity (including as armed professionals) for a long time here on M4C, and the wisdom they've picked up is often superior to what I see on lots of other websites.
If I have a concealed carry question I'm quite sure I can get a darn good answer here from any number of individuals who know the topic well....
i hate getting gun advice from places other than here... i will be checking out that brianenos forum though. I really would love to see m4carbine.net's handgun section expanded a bit. I think it'll have to be done slowly and deliberately, rather than just dumping a pile of new forums on us, but there is room to grow for sure.
Outside of the guys here who are deployed in iraq and afganistan, most of our membership depends on a handgun as our primary most of the time. ie-civilians and LEOs.
Not to toot our own horn here, but there are a LOT of guys who have been carrying concealed in some capacity (including as armed professionals) for a long time here on M4C, and the wisdom they've picked up is often superior to what I see on lots of other websites.
If I have a concealed carry question I'm quite sure I can get a darn good answer here from any number of individuals who know the topic well. I'm by no means the world's foremost expert on concealed carry, but I've done a fair bit of it and I've learned some lessons that have been very valuable to others I've coached about it in my non-internet life as well as my forum time.
As far as the defensive carry forum goes, if this thread is representative of the level of discourse over there, I'm not interested:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/84573-tactical-arms-1911-a.html
We wouldn't tolerate that nonsense here. Ever.
That thread is a good example of why M4C has been structured as it has, because the dominant voices over there were NOT the voices of actual experts, but of people with limited experience and limited understanding. We aspire to be better than that here. :)
That thread made me want to kick a ****ing baby.
Some of the guys there know what they're talking about, and some obviously don't.
In any case.....Sky, I honestly doubt you'll be able to find a more knowledgeable group in one place about handguns and their serious use than here.
As others have stated though, if I wanted to know about a N Frame S&W in .44WCF, I'd definitely go to the guys on the S&W forum, same with a collectable Colt Gov't model.
dookie1481
04-05-10, 20:30
Not to toot our own horn here, but there are a LOT of guys who have been carrying concealed in some capacity (including as armed professionals) for a long time here on M4C, and the wisdom they've picked up is often superior to what I see on lots of other websites.
If I have a concealed carry question I'm quite sure I can get a darn good answer here from any number of individuals who know the topic well. I'm by no means the world's foremost expert on concealed carry, but I've done a fair bit of it and I've learned some lessons that have been very valuable to others I've coached about it in my non-internet life as well as my forum time.
As far as the defensive carry forum goes, if this thread is representative of the level of discourse over there, I'm not interested:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/84573-tactical-arms-1911-a.html
We wouldn't tolerate that nonsense here. Ever.
That thread is a good example of why M4C has been structured as it has, because the dominant voices over there were NOT the voices of actual experts, but of people with limited experience and limited understanding. We aspire to be better than that here. :)
My God what a bunch of retards.
Jay
Someone owes my 5 minutes of my life back! Holy crap, I'd like to take a sec to thank the mods on here for keeping this place from becoming like that one but don't think I'm kissing ass I really don't give two shits about most people unless you've earned my respect through your actions.
I will also have to mirror TY44934 in that I do go over and read Brian Enos forums, I'm not registered on there, too many forums not enough time, but that place did help me with my grip.
I think it is a huge matter of quality over quantity.
Some of those forums may have a much higher volume of posts than our pistol forum here, but the quality there for the most part is low to terrible. Time spent reading them will only lead to heightened bloodpressure or perhaps time wasted getting drawn into a debate with morons.
It would be the equivalent to going to a forum populated by bottom dollar parts bin AR builders who believe their guns are every bit as reliable and durable as a top grade one built by Colt, etc.
I think on the whole this forum has some of the most experienced members and those who probably attended more quality training than most other public forums.
We also have some great mods and staff who allow free discussion while squelching stupidity.
I actually like the M4 handguns forum the way it is now. The volume isn't super heavy that it requires splitting up and when you do split it up it tends to make things harder to find and often reduce participation because people tend to check certain forums and not notice things on others.
I think it is a huge matter of quality over quantity.
Some of those forums may have a much higher volume of posts than our pistol forum here, but the quality there for the most part is low to terrible. Time spent reading them will only lead to heightened bloodpressure or perhaps time wasted getting drawn into a debate with morons.
It would be the equivalent to going to a forum populated by bottom dollar parts bin AR builders who believe their guns are every bit as reliable and durable as a top grade one built by Colt, etc.
I think on the whole this forum has some of the most experienced members and those who probably attended more quality training than most other public forums.
We also have some great mods and staff who allow free discussion while squelching stupidity.
I actually like the M4 handguns forum the way it is now. The volume isn't super heavy that it requires splitting up and when you do split it up it tends to make things harder to find and often reduce participation because people tend to check certain forums and not notice things on others.
that is a good point... maybe best to leave the handgun forum alone... perhaps as membership grows it will be useful to expand it. but for now it's quite good. this really is such a great forum.
So far the only thing I haven't been able to find in our handgun forum is the baseless crap found elsewhere.
If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
As far as the defensive carry forum goes, if this thread is representative of the level of discourse over there, I'm not interested:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/84573-tactical-arms-1911-a.html
We wouldn't tolerate that nonsense here. Ever.
That thread is a good example of why M4C has been structured as it has, because the dominant voices over there were NOT the voices of actual experts, but of people with limited experience and limited understanding. We aspire to be better than that here. :)
Wow, that thread is interesting. What's most interesting is that one of the ringleaders is an admin. Talk about being confronted with someone who is possessing of a more qualified opinion and just hollering "NUH UH!" with his fingers in his ears.
People are entitled to take, process, and disagree with the opinions of anyone they want; Vickers, Rogers, Hackathorn, Cain, Haley, Costa, whoever. Your experiences are going to differ and therefore your opinion may differ, but that guy did it in a horribly juvenile way.
The fact that his entire stated argument is based around the fact that Vickers evidently missed a target at 100 yards with a handgun, when in truth it's because someone speared his sacred cow, says a whole lot.
So far the only thing I haven't been able to find in our handgun forum is the baseless crap found elsewhere.
If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
probably limpwristing.
I agree that the quality of the M4c pistol forum is already very good, mostly because of the experience level of many of the people. I have learned a ton in the couple of years I've been involved here.
If you are thinking about subdividing and organizing the M4c handguns forum a bit more, I guess there are a lot of schemes for doing that, but one effective scheme that I have seen is at one of the leading 1911 forums: http://forums.1911forum.com/. They have BOTH brand-based, AND topic-based categories. Following their example loosely, but applying it more broadly to handguns and not just 1911's, you might try a handgun forum with subcategories arranged like this. Note that I added a subcategory for "Gun comparison" under General: some people just seem to love the "versus" types of threads, and this way, mods can force all those threads into one place rather than have them clutter up all the other discussions.
General
- General handgun discussion
- Handgun Comparisons (all the "versus" threads)
- Revolvers
- Range Reports
Hardware & Accessories
- Gunsmithing and Troubleshooting (general--for specific grands, go to brand forums)
- Magazines, holsters, and accessories
- Handgun Ammo
Applications
- Tactics and training
- Competition and target shooting
- LE duty
Manufacturers
- S&W
- Springfield
- Glock
- Colt
- etc.
I actually like the M4 handguns forum the way it is now. The volume isn't super heavy that it requires splitting up and when you do split it up it tends to make things harder to find and often reduce participation because people tend to check certain forums and not notice things on others.
I would agree with this. The handgun section, while maintaining a high quality, high signal-to-noise ratio, is not active enough to divide into multiple sub-forums. I think it would fragment the handgun discussion to the point that it would lessen the activity on those subjects.
In my humble opinion, I think it's very sufficient for what it is for now.
I've found M4carbine to be one of the very top firearm discussion forums.
I've found M4carbine to be one of the very top firearm discussion forums.
+1 to this. Brian Enos' site is well worth the trip too. .02
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/[/url]
I also liked this quote on that site:
Just who is Larry Vickers anyway?
Should I care?
:rolleyes:
I am for splitting up the handgun forum into subforums like BC and Rob_S suggested. Lately I've been spending alot more time in there than in the AR section.
In response to that, I would suggest you expand the pistol forum to be forums. Perhaps separate out the topics, not brands. The constant "which 9mm?" and fantasy questions "only one handgun" threads bring down the level of discussion, in my opinion. Not that I'm not guilty of indulging in those very discussions...
B_C
For instance:
Handguns
- Concealed Carry
- Service Pistols
- 1911 Operators
- Low Light Tactics and Equipment
GlockTalk is broken down into decent subs. Herr Glock has all the news article and RussP trys to keep people on topic in Carry Issues.
M4C seems to be more technical without getting into the whole "Why is this in a tech forum!?!?!?!! " crap that TOS seems to live on. I do love that AR General is general ar questions.
The subs would help to focus the topics more. Can we get a sub forum for Zombie Handguns or just a Sticky that says Best Zombie Handgun........ the loaded one. :D
.... ( Snip for brevity ).........
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/84573-tactical-arms-1911-a.html
We wouldn't tolerate that nonsense here. Ever.
That thread is a good example of why M4C has been structured as it has, because the dominant voices over there were NOT the voices of actual experts, but of people with limited experience and limited understanding. We aspire to be better than that here. :)
I think the structure and customs have been key to making m4carbine what it is today. Historically , for the last couple of years anyway , some of the very best subforums have been relatively low volume in terms of posts . Good info from knowledgable people was much easy to find. People stayed in their lane and used the search feature before asking the same basic basic questions . I have been seeing more and more clutter during the last few months.
Emergency First Aid is a prime example of the old structure -- not much clutter at all . I 've been lurking ( a lot ) down there for about a year. It's a great place to learn.
I read a great many different sites and the majority of them seem to have the same posters that just jump around from site to site. Unfortunately, I lose my patience with all the "Glock is the ONLy pistol" crowd. You seem to get them on every site. Most of these guys are still wet behind the ears and have seen nothing but Glocks on TV and think it is the answer to everything. A guy will specifically state he does NOT want a Glock but you will still get the idiots telling him to get a Glock.
Before anyone whines....I own Glocks...they are a good pistol but surely not the answer for everyone.
So far on this site I have read more mature responses to guys questions than a lot of sites. So heres an atta boy for the crowd here. :)
A dedicated thread on handguns may be another interesting place for people here so its got my vote.
WW
Unfortunately, I lose my patience with all the "Glock is the ONLy pistol" crowd. You seem to get them on every site. Most of these guys are still wet behind the ears and have seen nothing but Glocks on TV and think it is the answer to everything. A guy will specifically state he does NOT want a Glock but you will still get the idiots telling him to get a Glock.
I am not a Glock person either, but you must have seen the hoard of advocates here as well. Either they or the M&P these days. But your summary of the opinions would be shortsighted in this case, as you somewhat indicated.
A great many who post here have fired thousands and thousands of rounds through their Glocks and swear by them as a direct result. So even though there is a very strong Glock following here, it is mostly based in fact.
As someone who is relatively new to shooting and to this forum, I would say that I think this forum is the m4carbine.net of the handgun world. I checked out a BUNCH of fora when I was researching my first handgun purchase and this forum stands out as one of the best because of: (i) the depth of knowledge here, (ii) the active presence of SMEs, (iii) the judicious moderation, (iv) how helpful some of the most knowledgable and experienced members are willing to be, (v) the lack of brand specific bias and (vi) the focus on what works. There are a lot of tools you can put in the toolbox, and if they work they are likely being discussed here by people who really know what they are talking about. I benefit from that enormously. Thank you. (I am also a member of some of the others mentioned, and appreciate them as well, so I'm not in any way knocking them).
As far as structuring the handgun forum goes, I think maximus83 made some good sugestions. Personally, though, I use the view new posts feature more than anything else, so the suborganization is less relevant to me.
Safetyhit,
I think there is a misunderstanding...I was refering to the "ONLY" crowd. I have respect for those that are knowledgable on their weapons platform be it Glock, S&W, Colt, or whatever...I was targeting those that don't have an open mind to anything else and try and extoll that the only pistol able to successfully fired a round out the barrel is a Glock.
I myself have many hundreds of thousand of rounds fired in my 50+ years on this earth. I am an ex-member of a military marksmanship team so I generally have no problem weeding out the wanna -bes from those that know what they say and reccomend. It is those that are just learning and are actively seeking advice that I am trying to help.
WW
John_Wayne777
04-08-10, 12:37
There are certainly a lot of Glock fans on the site here, as well as M&P fans, H&K fans, Sig fans....but the logic behind it is similar to why we generally tell people looking for a carbine to stick to a 6920/BCM/Daniel Defense:
When it comes to using a weapon as a tool for self defense, some guns are better suited to the task than others. 9mm Glocks get a lot of endorsements around here because they work. I mean, I don't even LIKE Glocks and yet I still own the 9mm family.
As far as the defensive carry forum goes, if this thread is representative of the level of discourse over there, I'm not interested:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/defensive-carry-guns/84573-tactical-arms-1911-a.html
We wouldn't tolerate that nonsense here. Ever.
That thread is a good example of why M4C has been structured as it has, because the dominant voices over there were NOT the voices of actual experts, but of people with limited experience and limited understanding. We aspire to be better than that here. :)
Wow!!!!! I can't believe that the person with the worst diarrhea of the mouth is an administator of the forum.
With that said, There are a great group of guys from all types of backgrounds here.... (active/former military, law enforcement, and civilians with tons of knowledge).
There are certainly a lot of Glock fans on the site here, as well as M&P fans, H&K fans, Sig fans....but the logic behind it is similar to why we generally tell people looking for a carbine to stick to a 6920/BCM/Daniel Defense:
When it comes to using a weapon as a tool for self defense, some guns are better suited to the task than others. 9mm Glocks get a lot of endorsements around here because they work. I mean, I don't even LIKE Glocks and yet I still own the 9mm family.
Most certainly. And I hope I never implicated to WW that the good crowd here was either Glock, S&W or the highway. There is just a stronger following, as he likely noted.
I read alot here, yet I went with the Beretta. I am not worried about baseless criticism in my current thread about it, as I know we are a balanced group here in that regard. If someone has something good to say, they will say it. If not, the vast majority will refrain.
However if there is a negative comment, it will likely be conveyed in a way that is meant to educate rather than demean.
Not that the Beretta 92/90 Two platform is really all that vulnerable, but you know what I am saying. :)
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