View Full Version : M&P 9 fit issues Warren Tactical Sights *UPDATE 4/27/10* 2ND Update 5/24/10
Has anybody had issues with Warren Tactical rear sights being too loose on an M&P? Here is my email to Warren on my second set of sights
http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af149/thejakus/Projects/sights.jpg
I’m really not sure where to go from here. The item that has me the most concerned is that my compact seems to be loose with both your sights and the OEM sights. Am I being overly critical with the fit? Should one be able to move a rear sight by hand once it is centered? Does the loose OEM rear sight indicate a problem with the slide?
Sorry it had taken me some time to get to this point. I have been on the road with business on and off for a couple of weeks. Your sights came highly recommended, and with the exception of install issues I can see why. I very much like the cleaner sight picture, the sizing of the front sight, and dot setup they provide. At this point I’m not even entirely sure that the install issues can be attributed to your sights, but I would great appreciate any advise and help you can provide here. Thanks.
Any insight would be much appreciated
***Update***
I contacted S&W and subsequently sent the full size and compact back to their warranty department. As advertised S&W is pretty easy to deal with when you have to send something back to them. Unfortunately, I got both pistols back yesterday and nothing had been done to them. When I returned them I told the folks at S&W that the problem was loose rear sights. After speaking with their customer service again yesterday they told me that their records did not actually show what if any work had been done on the guns, and that in all likelihood the warranty folks simply tightened down the set screws and sent them back to me. They told me if I was not happy to send them back with a detailed note explaining exactly what I thought should be done (ie replace the slides with ones that have a properly sized notch). The pistols shipped out again this morning, so hopefully the second time will get this resolved. Fingers crossed.
Oh, and I have never received a response from Warren Tactical with regards to the original post above. Not really sure how I feel about that.
John_Wayne777
04-05-10, 14:28
Generally the complaint is that the fit is too tight...not too loose. If the factory and aftermarket sights are loose, perhaps it's time to start looking at your gun rather than the sights. It's possible that the dovetail for the sight was machined incorrectly.
I'm with John Wayne about the sights fitting too tight. Normally I can get sights in no problem with my regular hammer and punch, with the Warren sights I had to file the sights a little and break out the BFH.
I use a hammer and punch as well, they've all gone in with just a couple of taps.
Generally, I can get it about 1/8" in the dovetail by hand, then use the punch for the rest.
militarymoron
04-05-10, 16:20
i've fitted two warren sights on the full size M&P 9, and both times required fitting as they were too tight to tap in or use a sight pusher.
I thought I read somewhere that Warren was making some changes so they required less fitting ....
I've installed 2 or 3 sets, all from guns and sights dating from 2010.
Not going crazy:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=311624&postcount=24
Any sight that is sold as being for the M&P will fit in the M&P dovetail slots. Some sights may need a little fitting (older Warrens often did, for example, though he recently made a change to his base dimensions after working directly with S&W) but I'd never mill the slide for something different. The rear sight keeps the striker block contained and I wouldn't recommend messing with that.
My original full size 2007 pistol with warren two dots from august 2008 required significant filing of the sight in order to get it to fit.
My latest compact from April of 2009 with warrens from the same month required no fitment whatsoever. In fact ,the rear sight was quite loose. A few dabs of red locktite on the dovetails has kept the sight centered and secure since then and over 2k rounds through that particular pistol. Ive also done a number of one handed manipulation/malfunction/reload drills with that particular gun and havent run into any problems.
IF i had my way i would have liked a bit more friction between the sight and the dovetail as it was 100% loose and could move under almost no finger pressure until i locktited it and screwed in the sight retaining screw.
John_Wayne777
04-05-10, 18:01
Not going crazy:
https://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=311624&postcount=24
Good memory!
...but the fit still shouldn't be loose enough that the sight is flopping around...especially if this happened to you with factory AND aftermarket sights. I have very recent production Warren Sevigny sights on my PT.com M&P's and they don't move much without the aid of the sight pusher.
I'm still thinking something is messed up on the way your sight slots were machined.
Good memory!
...but the fit still shouldn't be loose enough that the sight is flopping around...especially if this happened to you with factory AND aftermarket sights. I have very recent production Warren Sevigny sights on my PT.com M&P's and they don't move much without the aid of the sight pusher.
I'm still thinking something is messed up on the way your sight slots were machined.
I agree that the fit of the factory sights seem to indicate a problem with the dovetail, but where do I go from here? Is the loctite solution good enough? It would seem workable, but what about any long term issues? Would I be better off trying to contact S&W direct or through an armorer to see if they would help? Should I find a micrometer and see if there is a measureable difference before I contact them?
Jus as an aside the date codes for these guns are 9336 for the fullsize, 9345 compact, and 0075 for compact 2. Thanks for the input on this.
but where do I go from here?
I would call S&W Customer Service, let them handle it.
John_Wayne777
04-06-10, 06:45
Bingo. Call up S&W customer service and explain to them that the factory sight was loose in the dovetail and was moving around on you. More than likely they will send you shipping info to send the gun back in and they'll take a look at it.
I recently picked up another set, for a new 9c. The rear was a 100% slip fit. It worked itself out during the first 50 rounds. I put a dab of red loctite on the left side of the dovetail and headed back to the range a few days later. It worked out again. I'm going to head back to get another rear shortly.
The factory S&W sight was a snug fit.
2nd Update - 5/24/10
I just received the 2 M&P pistols referenced in the email & chart in my first post back from their second trip to the Smith and Wesson warranty department with regard to the poor fit of the OEM sights their came with. Despite my request to have the slides replaced, they opted to send them back to me with new rear sights in both guns. After speaking with their warranty department it seems they just dug through the pile of rear sights (by Novak) until they found a set they best matched my particular slides. I emailed Warren over the weekend to see what if any help they could provide. I would still like to the Warren sights on these guns, but since nothing has change with the dimensions of the notches on my slides the Warren's still do not fit. I removed the OEM rears upon receiving the guns Friday, and I can freely slide the Warren's all the way through the notch by hand.
My email to Warren was basically asking if they might have some over sized sights to go with my over sized notches. Grant posted in the M&P problem thread that he might have some that will work for me, which is greatly appreciated. I thought I would given Warren first crack at this before I go to elsewhere for help.
Needless to say I am disappointed here. I bought these sights at shot show knowing that I was headed the M&P direction shortly there after. I know all that is in play here are manufacturing tolerances, and I tend to think that Warren probably has the better QC on their products due to their size and business model. I can also understand S&W's position here since they found some rear sights that "work" (still not real difficult to remove with MGW tool).
I am starting to draw the conclusion that the Warren sights are made to fit what should be the correct notch size from S&W, and that unfortunately for me my guns are the not correct notch size. Where I guess I am getting stranded is that it is easier for S&W to find a bigger OEM rear than fix the actual problem, and on some level I'm sure they see replacing the slides for me to accommodate correctly sized Warren rears as supporting an aftermarket manufacturer.
The process of shipping has been relatively painless, but at the end of the day I have been without these guns for upwards of 5 weeks now between both trips to the warranty department and I am still no closer to having them carry ready.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be well appreciated.
John_Wayne777
05-24-10, 14:18
That sucks, dude. If you want replacement sights you may have to get someone to stake the new sights in the dovetails.
Did you try blue loctite in the sight cut in the slide? I've used this on a Sig with a oversized rear sight cut and it worked well. YMMV.
Good luck,
Mike
I tried to Loctite in a loose Warren rear, with red (272), and it rattled free in less than 3 mags.
I went back to the store, we pulled another sight off the shelf and it was a snug fit.
FWIW: I tried that 1st Warren sight in 2 different M&P slides and it was equally loose in both.
I spent an hour the other day trying to fit a Warren rear into an M&P. The Warren sight was WAAAAY too big and required a lot of grinding.
I would have shot somebody just to get a loose fitting rear sight. :D
Send me your slide. I gurantee that I have some HUGE Warren Rears that will be a tight fit.
C4
I spent an hour the other day trying to fit a Warren rear into an M&P. The Warren sight was WAAAAY too big and required a lot of grinding.
I would have shot somebody just to get a loose fitting rear sight. :D
Send me your slide. I gurantee that I have some HUGE Warren Rears that will be a tight fit.
C4
Grant
Thanks for your offer. PM inbound.
mike benedict
05-25-10, 09:47
I had the same problem but with a set of 10-8 sights. Both the factory and the 10-8 were real loose in the dovetail. So I believe the slide dovetail was over sized.
Solution: I ran a little bead of weld on the bottom sight and filed it flat and installed it with my sight pusher.
No more loose sight! I just love having a well equipped work shop
Mike
That's wierd. I'm installing set of Warrens now and I can't get the rear in because it needs to be filed.
Got the OP's M&P Slides. The rear sight slot on the slides was correct.
The Warren rears were GROSSLY undersized (never seen this before).
I measured 50 Warren rear's. They were all right around .469. Your Warren rears were .458-.459.
So this was your problem.
We got them fit and are TIGHT in your slides. ;)
C4
Grant
Thanks for the help. Glad to know this is finally taken care of. What is weird is that this was actually the second set or Warren rears that I had tried. I picked the first set up at shot show and the second set, the ones I just sent to you, were a replacement set that Warren sent me when the originals didn't fit.
By the way, Warren emailed the day after I sent you the slides offering the same fix you did. I told him they were in your hands, and he asked that I let him know what the outcome was.
Now maybe I can final get some decent range time on these things.
Grant, what do you charge for a set of the warren's and an install?
Grant, what do you charge for a set of the warren's and an install?
We only have the Warren rear's available (no fronts at this time).
C4
GLOCKMASTER
05-29-10, 20:49
I had just the opposite problem with Warren sights for my 9L as they were WAY oversized.
I recently added a 10-8 rear to my 45 and had to file the sight down a lot to fit. I previously installed 10-8's on my 9 and 40 with no problems though.
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