View Full Version : Patrol Rifle
DoubleTap0311
04-11-10, 04:53
I'm currently working on my first build. It is going to play the role as a patrol rifle. My agency is not very picky as to which brand is used. I thought about just addressing the weak points on my Bushy but I figured its time to get a new one. Since I'm kinda new to building I figured I would ask for suggestions. Please guys list any part and brand that you think would benifit my cause. I'm open to any suggestions.
ThirdWatcher
04-11-10, 05:58
Take it from me, if you want to save money buy a BCM to begin with (in the configuration that you like the best). I'm running a BCM4 lower with a BCM upper (16" middie w/ Larue Tactical 12" handguards) and I couldn't be happier. :D
DoubleTap0311
04-11-10, 06:56
Thanks, that's what I've been looking at for the past few days. Just going BCM all the way. I'm leaning to BCM Standard 14.5" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group w/ Daniel Defense LITE 9" Handguard. I like having fixed irons on my rifle. I feel they are simple and one less part to flip up or get broken.
ThirdWatcher
04-11-10, 07:14
IMHO, you can't go wrong with ANYTHING from BCM.
+1 BCM, my 16 in. middy has treated me well. I recently took an armorers class and all the components we were supposed to check( Gas keys, bolts, gas tubes, etc.) were assembled correctly and everything checked out great. The gun has shot flawlessly as well.
DoubleTap0311
04-11-10, 07:59
Okay so I pretty much have nailed down the upper and lower (BCM). Now for a muzzle brake, rear sight, light. Can't use elec. optic per departmental standards. thinking bout LMT rear sight. Once again Im not a fan of lots of moving parts. As far as tac lights since I bought my SF years ago things have changed.
A2 flash hider, Larue BUIS, and a SF or SL tac light.
If I were to start over with a new patrol rifle, I would look really hard at a COMPLETE BCM mid-length with a TR-24 for an optic (unless you are looking to go the SBR route).
I would be careful with getting too custom with a duty gun for civil liability reasons. Remember, if you are involved in a shooting, you will be sued. Attorney's will demonize the weapon used if they can.
Expample: "Officer, the .40 caliber Glock is your departments standard issue?" "Officer, why do you feel it necessary to carry a .45 caliber handgun with a single action trigger?" Obviously easily defended, but in a civil suit, it could have an effect on a jury.
That's just my advice/opinion.
By no electrical optical sights, do you mean that they won't allow optics at all? If non electrical ones are ok, maybe the 1.5X ACOG could work for you.
Otherwise, if you actually mean NO optics, then the LMT, Larue, or Daniel Defense fixed iron sights might be the way to go. The Larue and Daniel Defense sights also eliminate the elevation know, and the windage knobs are smaller or sit flush to the body. If you like "simpler is better", this might be a good deal, unless you're used to adjusting elevation with the rear sight.
I use a PWS FSC556 on my work gun. Guys on the team were skeptical, but after seeing how well it worked both for recoil control and flash suppression, they changed their tune.
DoubleTap0311
04-11-10, 09:29
Yea we cannot run any form of optic on our patrol rifles even though 80% of our jurisdiction is rural areas packed full of meth-cooking rednecks who carry more guns than a swat team, and the other is densly packed projects full of rooted in hurricane katrina 9th Ward New Orleans refugees. This is the reason I want a good rifle. i love my bushy but i retired her to a nice ranch rifle status. I was looking at the Surefire muzzle brakes and a few others.
I would be careful with getting too custom with a duty gun for civil liability reasons. Remember, if you are involved in a shooting, you will be sued. Attorney's will demonize the weapon used if they can.
And they most likely won't be able to. A good judge and attorney can keep the trial on track, and only bring up the weapon's components if they were suspected of causing or contributing to an unintentional death. More of an issue with bad sights, a trick trigger, or deactivated safeties, not lights, quality optics, and even compensators.
Other threads address this. As long as your modifications are within department policy, and the gun worked fine (i.e. the right person got shot, and no one else), this shouldn't be an issue. You should also be represented in this case by your city, department, or union.
my $0.02
DoubleTap0311
04-11-10, 09:32
Totally understand you man, I've been lobbying for years to carry my Kimber but it aint happening. I don't understand why a courtroom can't see it as "A Bad guy got a Good thing. "
Lobby for the optics, my man. Its worth it, as I'm sure you already know.
DoubleTap0311
04-11-10, 09:53
Yep, i would love to have optics. I've tried the whole rapid aquistion factor that an optic has and got "When do you ever plan on using it." Our head of training academy comes up with the rules. We have to carry a Glock but since he likes Sig Sauer he can swap. I've approached him numerous times about optics but I'm releaved that i can purchase my own rifle. We had a bunch of pre-issued mix matched a1 uppers (with triangle shaped handgaurds) that were produced 30 years ago. But after we argued they still issued them and when they went to qual with them only two out of 30 fired.
I would advise not to put a brake on a duty gun. If you're the type to do entries with your carbine (and who doesn't have to train for AS scenarios) you will more than piss off everyone on your team, you could cause some damage with it too. Put a good flashhider on it, and if it is a SBR, particularly a 10.3, you could go so far as a noveske flaming pig.
Also another one who votes muzzle brakes are a no-no in a patrol rifle. Muzzle breaks are designed to vent gasses sideways instead of straight out. Sideways could mean your team-mate standing beside you. If you absolutely dont want an A2 hider, go for a smith vortex.
Thanks, that's what I've been looking at for the past few days. Just going BCM all the way. I'm leaning to BCM Standard 14.5" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group w/ Daniel Defense LITE 9" Handguard. I like having fixed irons on my rifle.
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/BCM/STCK0627-1024-Stick.jpg
+
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/BCM/STCK0673-1024-Stick.jpg
=
SOLID DUTY WEAPON
http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/BCM/STCK0717-1024-Stick.jpg
I respectfully disagree.
Take the tactical entry or active shooter scenario. Regardless of which muzzle device you're using, it will still be loud and disorienting, and any of these flash hiders/compensators/suppressors/brakes can cause at least temporary hearing loss. The only way to cut down on the sound issue is to use:
-a suppressor(best, but still not perfect, and not a legal/policy option for a lot of people),
-hearing protection(not always available to put in before entry, plus comm issues),
-a compensator that puts more of the flash and sound forward, like the KX3(there goes your low light vision).
Once you get past the point that its gonna be loud any way you slice it, then the question is whether or not any of these devices can give you an advantage. That's why I like the FSC. I find that it helps with follow up shots. I couldn't care less about pissing people off; the ones that complain are the ones that are already complaining about being there in the first place.
You also have to look at where you'll be operating. While we all think of making entries or aggressing on an active shooter, remember that you'll more often be pulling the carbine out for high risk stops, perimeters, and open area searches, where the effects of these devices on the officers on your flanks are mitigated.
Then, in the case of active shooters and rapid deployment, consider your likely environments. Open floorplan buildings, like offices, schools, malls, and the like are common. Again, more open spaces will mitigate the effects of the muzzle blast, as far as how the sound and concussion carries down the line. In my environment, I'm limited to a 16 inch barrel by department policy. It doesn't make entries into smaller spaces very easy, and in those cases, I'm more likely to go with my sidearm. Its also my SWAT gun, but I do very few entries as I'm tied to the perimeter/open air team and the sniper team.
If I had an SBR, it would be different. If this is for tactical entries, it'd be different.
GLOCKMASTER
04-11-10, 11:26
The BCM system will serve you well. Get a good LED light system, good sling, iron sights and you should be good to go.
I do not particulary care for muzzle brakes on patrol rifles as the standard flash hider is sufficent. The rifle doesn't have a lot of recoil and muzzle rise to start with so the increased noise and side blast, that will be blasting the people to your right and left, is not worth the gain in muzzle rise control.
STICKMAN is really good at math.
Beat Trash
04-11-10, 11:47
The BCM system will serve you well. Get a good LED light system, good sling, iron sights and you should be good to go.
I do not particulary care for muzzle brakes on patrol rifles as the standard flash hider is sufficent. The rifle doesn't have a lot of recoil and muzzle rise to start with so the increased noise and side blast, that will be blasting the people to your right and left, is not worth the gain in muzzle rise control.
This pretty much says it all.
I like the Surefire G2L for a light. Carry extra batteries in your bag.
Having a quick way of grabbing extra magazines is also something to think about. Chest rigs are nice. But for the way we deploy Patrol Rifles (urban, inter-city) speed is usually important. I like the Blackhawk rifle bandoleer. It's either a 2 or 4 rifle mag pouch with a shoulder strap attached. It has single mag pistol pouches on either side, but I use the pistol pouches to hold a leatherman, and an extra Surefire G2 flashlight. While it bounces around and is not as effective as a chest rig, it's better suited to my needs as far as how we deploy our rifles.
For a Patrol Rifle, do not get attached to equipment. If it serves a need, and it works use it. If not, then don't. The mission drives the gear, as some say. But for an rural officer, your needs are different than mine, being intercity. So while you may get good advice, it may not apply to your needs.
A good reliable rifle, a good sling, a light, and you are good to go. If you're rifle is solely for permitter usage, and not for entries, then I might consider an ACOG or similar type of optic. If it's more for "whatever the shift brings that night" then I would personally not go with an ACOG. Either stay with iron sights, or go with a RDS.
Get some extra magazines. We issue two magazines per rifle. I have 4 extra in my bag, just because....
I respectfully disagree.
Take the tactical entry or active shooter scenario. Regardless of which muzzle device you're using, it will still be loud and disorienting, and any of these flash hiders/compensators/suppressors/brakes can cause at least temporary hearing loss. The only way to cut down on the sound issue is to use:
-a suppressor(best, but still not perfect, and not a legal/policy option for a lot of people),
-hearing protection(not always available to put in before entry, plus comm issues),
-a compensator that puts more of the flash and sound forward, like the KX3(there goes your low light vision).
Once you get past the point that its gonna be loud any way you slice it, then the question is whether or not any of these devices can give you an advantage. That's why I like the FSC. I find that it helps with follow up shots. I couldn't care less about pissing people off; the ones that complain are the ones that are already complaining about being there in the first place.
You also have to look at where you'll be operating. While we all think of making entries or aggressing on an active shooter, remember that you'll more often be pulling the carbine out for high risk stops, perimeters, and open area searches, where the effects of these devices on the officers on your flanks are mitigated.
Then, in the case of active shooters and rapid deployment, consider your likely environments. Open floorplan buildings, like offices, schools, malls, and the like are common. Again, more open spaces will mitigate the effects of the muzzle blast, as far as how the sound and concussion carries down the line. In my environment, I'm limited to a 16 inch barrel by department policy. It doesn't make entries into smaller spaces very easy, and in those cases, I'm more likely to go with my sidearm. Its also my SWAT gun, but I do very few entries as I'm tied to the perimeter/open air team and the sniper team.
If I had an SBR, it would be different. If this is for tactical entries, it'd be different.
You're focused on only the sound, you need to consider the pressure of the gases being expelled out the barrel. In a recent armorers course I taken it showed a picture of an Ar equipped with a muzzle break being shot over a couch and the escaping gases tore the fabric on the couch up. I tried to find the same picture on the net but couldn't find it. That is alot of gas pressure leaving your barrel and although a break might be fine for the target shooter, I'd rather eliminate that factor completely by sticking with a standard A2 hider.
LettersFromEarth
04-11-10, 12:35
Sorry to repeat this if it has already been said (I haven't read all the posts yet) but there is a good chance that if your Patrol Rifle is used in a line of duty shooting and is a "parts gun" (no insult intended) there is a very good chance that when a suit is brought against you and your agency a slime-ball lawyer type will make a stink over the fact that you "built" your weapon instead buying it complete. Just a thought.
Lets remember this is going to be a PATROL rifle. As a Patrol officer he will be 75% perimeter and 25% entry (at best). A large agency near me went with comps instead of flashhiders.Their first rifle shooting was at night and in the rain; after the first shot, the officer with the rifle was "blinded" by the flash and was basically out of the fight. Lucky for him, the other officer was able to shoot suspect with her pistol. This agency has just replaced all of the comps on their patrol rifles with flashhiders. The military uses flashhiders for a reason.;)
I suggest a BCM build, or a Daniel Defense build with pencil barrel through G&R Tactcial (what I am leaning toward right now), or a Colt 6920, or a Daniel Defense XVM4 (another excellent option). All I am going to add to it is a Magpul MOE handguard, a light, and an Aimpoint Micro.
In a recent armorers course I taken it showed a picture of an Ar equipped with a muzzle break being shot over a couch and the escaping gases tore the fabric on the couch up. I tried to find the same picture on the net but couldn't find it. That is alot of gas pressure leaving your barrel and although a break might be fine for the target shooter, I'd rather eliminate that factor completely by sticking with a standard A2 hider.
You can't be serious. I'm sorry, but who gives a *&$#* about someones couch?
My goal is total dominance in a firefight, if I get rounds on target faster, I win. Its that simple. For anyone who is missing that part of the picture, you need to get shot at a few times, it will change the way you think. We are talking LE patrol carbine in this thread, not a MIL carbine, and it creates a different set of uses and needs in some cases.
I patrol in a cesspool, and my weapon typically comes out multiple times a shift. Maybe I just look at things different because of that.
This might be a better topic for the LE section.
STICKMAN is really good at math.
I'm like a mathamagician. :D
As for BCM it is a very good choice no doubt. I really like their product and purchase from them often. With the prices on the Colt 6920's being low, I would seriously consider this option also.
The BCM system will serve you well. Get a good LED light system, good sling, iron sights and you should be good to go.
I do not particulary care for muzzle brakes on patrol rifles as the standard flash hider is sufficent. The rifle doesn't have a lot of recoil and muzzle rise to start with so the increased noise and side blast, that will be blasting the people to your right and left, is not worth the gain in muzzle rise control.Agreed. I would also add a red dot EOTech or Aimpoint.
If we cannot control the minimal recoil on this weapon then we need to shoot it more. IMO since a great amount of shootings happen at night or in low/reduced light situations, a flash hider IMO is far more necessary in speed of follow ups than a muzzle brake. One good blinding flash from a flame thrower and follow ups get really difficult. Not just for you but for your partner also.
I can control the recoil just fine. I'm sure most of us can. It changes when your hands are slippery, you're shooting with one handed, you're shooting more than 2 or 3 rounds rapidly, or you're not in a good stance. I'm sure you know all this. With guys like Surf, Stick, Freuler, and others, I know I'm preaching to the choir. I'll take any advantage I can get, that my department allows.
As for blinding effects, I haven't noticed it with the FSC. It works pretty well in this regard. Its not so much of a muzzle brake.
I submit the following: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlEzMhyrxXY
Magic_Salad0892
04-11-10, 13:49
Go with a BCM, or Daniel Defence gun.
Both are excellent budget DI rifles.
If funds permitted I'd say go with a bare bones LWRCi M6A1. You'd dig it I'm sure.
If we cannot control the minimal recoil on this weapon then we need to shoot it more. IMO since a great amount of shootings happen at night or in low/reduced light situations, a flash hider IMO is far more necessary in speed of follow ups than a muzzle brake. One good blinding flash from a flame thrower and follow ups get really difficult. Not just for you but for your partner also.
Are you speaking as a cop based on your experiences, training, and career in LE, as well as time spent with the FSC-556?
Your comments seem to be in conflict with what I've found in context to this thread, which is why I'm asking.
We just did a PWS FSC, Surefire FA556, Smith Vortex vs standard A2 in a night fire. Should have filmed it. Admittedly the first 2 are not pure flash hiders but the results were interesting. First the Surefire was a better brake, but suffered more at night. However the FSC wasn't far behind the Surefire for killing flash. The video you post is a bit deceiving due to the distance to camera. Trust me standing right behind or shooting the weapon is going to seriously disrupt your night vision and speed of follow ups. Also if you and your buddy need to fight side by side, the brake has a very good chance of screwing him up too.
This vid is more accurate for the FSC. Notice the sparks and flame doing a large round pattern. This is very disrupting from the shooter standpoint. If they would rapid fire, it is even worse. The fireworks show from the PWS and Surefire was pretty neat for the onlookers. The flame throwing from the Surefire was much worse, but it isn't really a flash hider anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTnmn4wZFXs&feature=fvw
As a sniper, observer, or cover team etc, flash and disturbance can be a bad thing. If recoil is easily managed, I cannot see the benefit to a brake. Flash and disturbance killing is much more welcome IMO. Just something to think about.
Magic_Salad0892
04-11-10, 14:07
I might get flamed for this, but an AAC flash hider or muzzle brake might be just what you need.
I use one, and I love it.
Then again I'm not LEO so I can't give any input on situations you'd use it for.
I just suspect it would more than serve your needs.
You can't be serious. I'm sorry, but who gives a *&$#* about someones couch?
No one gives a shit about a couch, my instructor ( Ned Christiansen) just used it as an example to show the force of the gasses expelled and how brakes/comps differ in what they do.
I should apologize for leading this a little off topic. Seriously. What I've posted above is simply my opinion based on my shooting experience, operational experience, and work environment. Having said that, I have to add the following: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1dBstAIYtQ
:D
Are you speaking as a cop based on your experiences, training, and career in LE, as well as time spent with the FSC-556?
Your comments seem to be in conflict with what I've found in context to this thread, which is why I'm asking.Sorry Stick, my post was in reply to Chamelox but I think answers your questions.
Just some background on the non-scientific test. Surefire and FSC mounted uppers were provided by another member here at M4C who is was a past full time LEO who is now a Reserve Officer, employed as a Team / Shift leader with TC and also consults with a big polymer parts and training company, to test out these items in our night fire evolutions of training during our 10 week program for our new guys.
IMO the disturbance of the FSC was worse from the shooters standpoint as far as backblast vs the Surefire. Also all who participated felt the Surefire was better at muzzle control but more of a flame thrower. This is indeed my opinion in a LE setting. IMO the FSC and/or Surefire is unacceptable especially in a tactical setting where possibly multiple guys may be working in close quarters in a low light situation or maybe even working with Night Vision. IMO, the benefit of lessened recoil, from a weapon with already low recoil does not justify the flash or disturbance for my uses. Again this is only my opinion but it is my professional opinion and that held of the rest of our Firearms and Cadre staff. We will not use these devices unless if we were to combine the Surefire with the use of a suppressor, which isn't going to happen anytime soon for us. So yes, that is my professional take on it, if that counts for anything. :)
Having said that, I have to add the following: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1dBstAIYtQ
:D
I just e-punched you in the nose. Nice burn:D
Have you considered Sabre or Noveske? Pkfirearms and Rainier Arms sell some pretty nice complete uppers, some with quad rails, some basic. I went with a Noveske upper with a RRA lower. One of the best AR15's iv own'd or shot.
I shot better groups with irons then i did with my Ncstar 3x9 p4 sniper scope at 50yds. 200 rounds with no FTF or FTE
I have two rifles I use for duty/SWAT one has the PWS the other a Triple Tap.
I have no issues during night fire. When we shoot cqb the other team members afterwards comment on the blast from the pws as being barely noticeable. They say the blast from the Triple Tap is a little harsher, but not enough to disturb them or screw them up while they are shooting. If it did I would ditch them. About half of the team members are running a brake. Again with no major issues that would preclude the operator, or other team members from completing the task at hand.
Again like most things you'll get various opinions. Try it, see if it fits you, and your partners. If you dont like it, keep it or sell it.
ThirdWatcher
04-11-10, 19:46
Sorry to repeat this if it has already been said (I haven't read all the posts yet) but there is a good chance that if your Patrol Rifle is used in a line of duty shooting and is a "parts gun" (no insult intended) there is a very good chance that when a suit is brought against you and your agency a slime-ball lawyer type will make a stink over the fact that you "built" your weapon instead buying it complete. Just a thought.
I go to work with what I believe is the best carbine available, a BCM4. The upper and lower were assembled by BCM. It has an ion-bonded BCM FA BCG and a Gunfighter charging handle. I wouldn't call it a "parts gun" and I don't choose my weaponry based on what some lowlife ambulance chaser might think. I also pay for two separate legal defense plans (Teamsters & FOP) to represent me and not the city's interests.
Get a 6920, sell the upper, and replace it with a BCM midlength. Install the Colt BCG, side sling swivel, and carryhandle on your BCM. Standard cav arms handguards with a 2" piece of rail bolted on and a G2 LED/VTAC mount will work and keep costs way down. Get a good 2 pt sling and your done.
Best patrol rifle I've put together (I used a LMT BUIS cuz an Aimpoints going on when $$$ allows). Got to give credit to USMC03, his posts made a lot of sense and have a lot of real world experience on what does and doesn't work for LE.
I've got no dog in the brake fight. I have a 14.5 w/pinned FSC on an upper I use for 3-gun. Its loud and obnoxiousa, but does reduce recoil and speed up follow-ups. IMHO the middy with A2 works just as well but without the noise.
Stay Safe,
Rob
I've been using a Levang on my 10.5". It does a good job at sending the blast down range. Still have a pretty good flash. My 11.5" wears a Phantom II. I've always been satisfied with it.
DoubleTap0311
04-12-10, 06:15
First off I appreciate all the feedback. Tell me what I'm missing.
Lower-BCM4
Upper-BCM BFH 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group w/ Daniel Defense LITE 9" Handguard
A2 flashhider
LMT BUIS
SF Scout light
ThirdWatcher
04-12-10, 06:20
I have a Tango Down QDSF http://tangodown.com/shop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=99 mated to my Surefire Scout Light.
That set up sounds like it's good to go.:)
Id add a Vickers 2pt sling.
DoubleTap0311
04-12-10, 07:56
i like the vickers but I've really been looking towards Magpul's MS2 Sling. Due to the GRAB AND GO style scenarios one way encounter regaurding the use of a patrol rifle I have been thinking about running a redi-mag on it. Anyone have any feedback on these?
ForTehNguyen
04-12-10, 07:57
redimag is user preference. Basically what it does is you trade off increased weapon weight (carrying extra mag + redimag on the gun) for increased reload speeds (even faster if you get a Magpul BAD). Redimag + Magpul BAD is the fastest reload you can get. Got to train train train to get the muscle memory for this obviously.
First off I appreciate all the feedback. Tell me what I'm missing.
Lower-BCM4
Upper-BCM BFH 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group w/ Daniel Defense LITE 9" Handguard
A2 flashhider
LMT BUIS
SF Scout light
BCM uppers will come with A2 flashhider
have to add a bolt carrier group and charging handle to BCM uppers + $145 for M16 BCG and the standard CH. The BCG is $140 normally so $5 for a CH to keep as a spare is nice
I would also recommend a BCM Gunfighter charging handle $45
lower is a lower to me, just find a decent branded one. I have two DPMS, two CMMG lowers on my 4 BCM uppers. They all fit good and the finish matches
maybe get some rail ladders or else its gonna feel like holding a cheese grater.
Heres some info on the redi-mod
http://www.03designgroup.com/reviews/bfg-redi-mod
I like the redi-mag on my patrol rifle. It gives me the extra mag when I get out of the car without having to try to put one on my belt. Alot of the guys here also use the the mag couplers but I don't like those because I have to dump both mags at the same time. again... personal preference.
Your setup sounds good. While I have a lot on my rifle the only thing really necessary in my opinion is a good light.
ForTehNguyen
04-12-10, 11:22
I like the redi-mag on my patrol rifle. It gives me the extra mag when I get out of the car without having to try to put one on my belt.
this is a great point, I didnt think of this earlier.
DoubleTap0311
04-12-10, 12:25
redi-mag or not a BAD lever is a must on every AR platform I will ever own (personal preference). I've been running mine on my bushy since November 09 and absolutely love it. My rig belt is full enough, i dont think i can fit a mag on it. Makes me feel sorry for the skinny cops out there (fatguys have more real-estate on thier belts). If I lobby our weapon instructor for optics and he agrees what should I go with. Anyone using an Magpul AFG?
If I lobby our weapon instructor for optics and he agrees what should I go with. Anyone using an Magpul AFG?
I use the aimpoint T-1 in a Larue mount because it is small and light but mainly it is solid and mounts solidly to the rifle. This is nice going in and out of the car alot. A buddy of mine has an older aimpoint (M2 or M3) with a larue ring mount and the screws keep backing out on him.
I am also using an AFG and love it. My department trains us using the method of gripping the rifle that the AFG is based on so it is perfect for me.
DoubleTap0311
04-12-10, 13:48
In regaurds to the T-1 are there any complications of co-witnessing the irons? Since I'm on the topic of sight anyone got range time with a CSAT sight?
In regaurds to the T-1 are there any complications of co-witnessing the irons? ?
I have a fixed front sight post and a fixed Larue BUIS on the rear. I have had no issues with the T-1 and fixed sites. I just look over the sites to use the red dot. Works great for me.
i like the vickers but I've really been looking towards Magpul's MS2 Sling. Due to the GRAB AND GO style scenarios one way encounter regaurding the use of a patrol rifle .....
The MS2 sling set up is really nice. At first I thought it was just tacticool bling, but after seeing one in person and seeing how it is used according to Magpul, it actually makes a lot of sense. Combine this with the Magpul ASAP sling mount for best result. The sling mount secures the buffer tube to the receiver in a much more solid manner than the standard nut/plate setup.
justin_247
04-12-10, 23:31
The MS2 sling set up is really nice. At first I thought it was just tacticool bling, but after seeing one in person and seeing how it is used according to Magpul, it actually makes a lot of sense. Combine this with the Magpul ASAP sling mount for best result. The sling mount secures the buffer tube to the receiver in a much more solid manner than the standard nut/plate setup.
I think the MS2 is a great sling for SBRs less than 14.5" in length, but for carbines that length or more I've found I really prefer a two point sling. I'm a pretty skinny person and single point slings just aren't comfortable on me for long periods of time, and don't provide enough extra support for the weapon when I'm running.
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