View Full Version : What do you carry in the woods?
montanadave
04-11-10, 12:26
As backpacking season is just around the corner, I was curious as to what types of handguns and loads forum folks prefer to carry in bear country. I've never carried anything beyond a .45 auto or a .357 (and, fortunately, have never had occasion to fire either one), but as I get older and slower I'm thinking about getting something a tad beefier. I'm all ears.
gtmtnbiker98
04-11-10, 13:27
Living in Ohio, I carry for the two-legged threat. I carry my P2000 V2 LEM with 165 gr SGDHPs.
Well a friend has 4 acers in Maine. At his camp you had to walk to use the outhouse. I took my Golt 1911 45. One never know if you may run into a Bear. Now that would be my HK45 with 230 Gold Dots. Plus take extra mags with you.
In Colorado I carry a 1911 Compact 45acp loaded with 230 gr Gold Dots, if the black bears are out or I expect other large critters might be around I carry a 1911 10mm loaded up with either Double Tap 200 grain FMJ or XTP, I've carried .44's and .357's in the past, but find the 1911's much more comfortable to carry and quicker and more accurate to shoot...not to mention a reload.
If there was a possibility of larger bears, such as the kind you have in Montana, and we're not supposed to have in Colorado, I'd seriously consider .44 Mag to be minimum, as much as I prefer 1911's for a number of reasons, I'd go with either a 4-5" Smith or 4 5/8" Blackhawk loaded with heavy hard cast loads, Buffalo Bore has several you can purchase online.
A good .357 can be loaded with heavy hard cast (see Buffalo bore) and would be a better then nothing compromise.
The main thing about a "woods gun" is to have it on your hip at all times. I think a mag full of .45acp in the head/face area of even a bear, especially the eye socket, has at least some chance of getting it to change it's mind.
Of course a small lever action carbine in a good caliber is a better option but adds more "gear" to your kit and it will usually not be there when you need most...
In 35 + years of wandering the Rockies, including calling in predators, I've only been attacked once by wild animals, 3 Bighorn Sheep, of all things. They were dropping lambs and I happened into the wrong place at the wrong time. The largest Ram (huge) got within 10 feet, prepped to charge and instead of drawing the 10mm, I threw a snowball at him...it would have sucked getting whacked by a huge, protective Ram, but I didn't want to have to explain my actions to a possible animal rights activist court...so I took a chance and fortunately for both me and the Ram it worked out. I couple of snowballs and I was able to quickly back pedal out of there.
I think the odds are better of running into unsavory two legged varmints.
That's my two cents anyway.
lethal dose
04-11-10, 14:12
Ruger gp100, 6" stainless, full power loads.
you guys got GRIZ up there in montana... you'd probably want some kind of magnum. probably the only situation where i'd rather have a revolver than an auto.
here in oregon, all we have is black bear, and small ones at that. i'm actually more concerned about cougar than bear, as the only bear attacks we ever get are hungry blackies that attack sanitation workers at the dumps they live off in the southern part of the state. cougar, on the other hand, are a bit of a problem in recent years. they've been reclassed from varmint to "game," about 10, 12 years ago... cant hound-hunt 'em anymore. and since cougar is way too hard to hunt without dogs, nobody cougar hunts... so they're way over populated. hikers get attacked fairly regularly, and we've even had school kids get attacked on their way to school in some of the less urban towns. people's pets and small livestock get eaten regularly in the Eugene-Springfield area.
aside from the fact that i basically always have a carbine with me, especially when hiking/backpacking..... since cougar is hard to hit as it's padding up the trail at you at 30mph, i'm most comfortable with a glock 17 with extra magazines at the ready. i generally carry FMJs in all my non-game guns, feeling penetration is more important BHP benefits. but if my concern was for a significantly larger, thicker, tougher predator, i'd probably go to a .44 mag with a 270gr BSP. griz are quick, but they're so damn big it's hard to miss... i think the magnum is probably the way to go.
I would buy a S&W Mountain Gun in .44 Mag to carry in Montana if it were me. Carry at least three speed loaders as well (for the two-legged varmints).
glock 19 and a spare mag.
more concerned about two legged threats and mountain lions than i am bears. i'd like to get a ruger alaskan though, but budgetary issues prevent it at the moment :(
i've considered a glock 29 as well, but i think i need a 44 mag revolver in my arsenal. :D
The Dumb Gun Collector
04-11-10, 18:41
G26 or S&W 340 M&P with 125 grain JHP .357
I just saw a 5" Stainless 629 at the local gunshop, it was sweet looking as well as pricey if I remember correctly.
montanadave
04-12-10, 08:29
Right now, I have to say I'm leaning towards the S&W 629 "Mountain Gun" or a Ruger Redhawk. If my wife wants to get it for my B-day, I'll probably shoot for the stainless 629. :D
Dave
I hauled a 7+ inch 629 with the full lug around for several years here in Colorado, it was a very nice gun, but not really suitable for all day hip carry.
My next .44 will have a 5" or less barrel and more of a LW profile. And I'm giving serious consideration to a 4 5/8" Blackhawk, especially since I've seen them under $500.
S&W has quite a few desirable models, I've always wanted a Mountain Gun and would snatch one up in a minute if I could afford it.
I ran a cylinder of factory 240 grain loads through one of their 4" featherweights and it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I thought, the price is more punishing then the recoil.
The big bears make the woods much more interesting don't they?
I have a video of a lion we unexpectedly called in while predator hunting here in Colorado a couple of months ago, I didn't even know we called it in until the following Monday morning when my buddy put it on his wide screen TV. I haven't figured out Youtube yet, so if anyone wants to see it PM your email and I'll email a link to it, it runs on Windows Media Player.
For serious backpacking, weight is critical. I carry a S&W J frame scandium .357 (I think the model is 340). If I were in serious bear country I might purchase one of the S&W scandium frame 4" 44 magnums. However, I do not like to carry around a full size steel revolver, due to its weight, even deer hunting, never mind backpacking. OK, I admit to being a wimp.
My biggest wildlife concerns in the backcountry are two-legged, not four. While upsetting a territorial four-legged is always a possibility, I'm more worried about happening upon a tweaker cooking meth.
Beat Trash
04-12-10, 11:17
My biggest wildlife concerns in the backcountry are two-legged, not four. While upsetting a territorial four-legged is always a possibility, I'm more worried about happening upon a tweaker cooking meth.
This is my concern as well. I carry the same gun I carry daily (Glock 19 or M&p9c). I might add an extra spare magazine, but that's about it.
LockenLoad
04-12-10, 16:03
S&W 44. magnum
Ruger in .45Colt. very versatile.... it can be loaded to be hotter than .44 Mag.
or can be loaded with low power plinking loads or snakeshot.
brushy bill
04-12-10, 16:34
Have a S&W 629 pre-lock. 6 1/2" though, so thinking of having it rebarreled to 4".
palmbeach31
04-12-10, 16:43
Glock 20 (10mm) would be a good choice
mattpittinger
04-12-10, 16:46
I spend alot of time in the woods here in East Texas, where hogs and snakes are the biggest concern. I do however do some backpacking up North Utah, Montana, Wyoming, ect..... I generally carry a Colt Delta Elite 10mm. I have found the 10 to be very effective on very large hogs. I have never shot a griz with it....knock on wood....and hopefully never will. I have a Glock 20, but I just feel more comfortable with the Colt.
A Glock 20 or 29 is a good choice for a backcountry gun. Get good ammo for it.
Powder_Burn
04-12-10, 17:17
A Glock 20 or 29 is a good choice for a backcountry gun. Get good ammo for it.
Who is making trustworthy 'real' 10mm ammo these days? Also, would it be an issue to run hardcast in a polygonal rifled barrel? The Buffalo Bore offerings seem interesting for the backwoods application.
Pathfinder Ops
04-12-10, 18:03
I would buy a S&W Mountain Gun in .44 Mag to carry in Montana if it were me. Carry at least three speed loaders as well (for the two-legged varmints).
This is how I roll.
I hunt with a lever action 44mag as well. It keeps things simple.
So when I'm backpacking It's my carry gun.
I used to just carry my 1911 but in the hiking/ packing world when you meet up with a tree hugger they seem less squeamish with the revolver than my semi auto.
Go figure.
Alpha Sierra
04-12-10, 18:18
This
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp290/JRossy/guns/DSC00260.jpg
S&W 44. magnum
+1 on that. It's a great choice for the intended purpose.
Like others have said, the same thing I carry every day (with an additional reload given that help might be hours away). Two-legged predators are still the biggest concern in the backwoods and mountains. There's nothing on 4 legs anywhere near me that is substantially larger than a human, so I can't think of any reason to carry something different/bigger.
I'm more concerned about water, communications, first aid, having the right clothing, etc. if I'm in the middle of nowhere.
varoadking
04-12-10, 18:45
Hiking?
I can think of far better ways to waste my time...
I was very surprised to see 17 fatal black bear attacks from 2000 to 2009
with 10 fatal brown bear attacks so says Wikipedia.
Having worked as a fish and game officer. I have seen a 300 lbs spring bear(boar) killed with a 22 rifle (at close range) up to the big 45-70. I never responded to a bear attack or a threating bear. More along the lines of theres a bear in my bird feeder or in my trash.
Bullet selection is probably more important than anything, in fact. A black bear is tough-muscled with thick fur, hide and fat layers (depending on the time of year). You need a bullet that will penetrate through all that, and most hollowpoints used are not good choices
44 Magnum 240-grain JSP
41 Magnum 210- grain JSP
500 S&W 275 Grain Deep Penetrating X Bullet
Good luck and enjoy the outdoors
Hiking?
I can think of far better ways to waste my time...
To each their own. Personally, I spend every chance I get away from the urban hell I work and live in. I love our mountains.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll180/oscar319/Uintas7-15-09021.jpg
My son, daughter and a pug bear in an alpine meadow last year.
The biggest threat I have ran into are moose, especially mother moose.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll180/oscar319/Uintas7-15-09094.jpg
There are black bears and cougars, though I've never encountered either. As stated before, people are more of a concern than wildlife.
I carry one of my Glock .40's loaded with duty ammo (180 grn bonded JHP) and a Browning Buckmark .22 for fun. It beats a sharp stick.
I do own a 6" Model 29 .44 Mag. I love the gun, but it is too heavy to pack all the time. I also do not shoot it as confidently as my Glocks. I would love to get a S&W Mountain Gun.
When camped, I usually have a shotgun with a slug/00 stagger loaded.
Heavy Metal
04-12-10, 21:54
Oscar,
Be very wary. My sister was once bitten by a Moose!
Oscar,
Be very wary. My sister was once bitten by a Moose!
I've been charged once by a momma moose. I had a young bull on a trail that would not move. After going around him, he followed me up the trail for about 100 yards. He was not aggresive, but it was alarming.
Heavy Metal
04-12-10, 22:12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SII-jhEd-a0
Oscar,
Pay attention to the subtitles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SII-jhEd-a0
Oscar,
Pay attention to the subtitles. :D
I guess that one flew way over my head :o
F-ing rabid moose!
LonghunterCO
04-12-10, 22:50
Ruger in .45Colt. very versatile.... it can be loaded to be hotter than .44 Mag.
or can be loaded with low power plinking loads or snakeshot.
+1 here for me too, but I am in black bear country. The 44 mag will work too.
in NE Oregon I carry a ruger 4 5/8ths blackhawk in .45lc and a 4" .357 gp100 for defense against blackbear, cougar, and entrepreneurs in the recreational pharmaceutical industry.
Who is making trustworthy 'real' 10mm ammo these days? Also, would it be an issue to run hardcast in a polygonal rifled barrel? The Buffalo Bore offerings seem interesting for the backwoods application.
double tap is pretty popular.
i think they offer a hardcast that works in glocks. good hardcast lead works in them. it's when you get into the wheel weight homebrew stuff that you get problems
When I go whitetail hunting, I take a 6" 629. Most hiking out in Arizona sees me with my CQB loaded up with 185-gr Cor-Bon DPX. Not sure I'd trust that for big bear, but here in AZ I'm more worried about two-legged critters.
Not for nothing but as far as predators go, a hand gun, even the mighty .44mag aint gonna be worth much.
if you're talking about cats, you'll be lucky to get a shot off since they're more likely to be on top of you before know they're even in the area.
Bears, even blackies, are tough. I know someone that shot a black bear *in the FACE* from point blank range and only managed to persuade it that it wanted to be someplace else.
hunting with a handgun is different since you usually get a better shot than when you're the hunted. A handgun will take a cat or a bear if you get to pick the animal and the angle. Now if you're trying to hit the front of an angry animal, the odds go down pretty quickly.
LockenLoad
04-13-10, 13:49
Not for nothing but as far as predators go, a hand gun, even the mighty .44mag aint gonna be worth much.
if you're talking about cats, you'll be lucky to get a shot off since they're more likely to be on top of you before know they're even in the area.
Bears, even blackies, are tough. I know someone that shot a black bear *in the FACE* from point blank range and only managed to persuade it that it wanted to be someplace else.
hunting with a handgun is different since you usually get a better shot than when you're the hunted. A handgun will take a cat or a bear if you get to pick the animal and the angle. Now if you're trying to hit the front of an angry animal, the odds go down pretty quickly.
yeah I saw Jeremiah Johnson, just get that Hawkins rifle, it kilt the bear that kilt me at least you get revenge :D I am just joking, you make good points, and valid as well, but having a gun is better than a stick in the eye, think of some of the cougar and bear attacks of recent, other people came upon them had they been armed it might have helped. Who knows.
When I work on the family land, I carry one of the old SIG Sauer P226s that is present at the house. They are still loaded with a 147gr Speer Gold Dots, but some of the mags were laoded with 147gr TCMJ.
montanadave
04-13-10, 20:30
I appreciate all the feedback and I don't want to beat this thread to death, but I was doing a little counter cruising this afternoon and came up with a couple of additional questions. The stainless S&W 629 Mountain Gun was priced the same as a Model 29 "Classic" (blued, not the nickel) which had a slightly heavier barrel, backstrap, etc. Any S&W aficionados have any preferences?
I also took a look at a couple of the Ruger "Alaskan" models. Just curious, anybody fired one of these models chambered in the .454 Casull?
i'm really out of my lane when it comes to revolvers and S&W as a whole, so i'll just point out that "stainless" is, blued isn't. :)
mattpittinger
04-13-10, 21:42
Who is making trustworthy 'real' 10mm ammo these days? Also, would it be an issue to run hardcast in a polygonal rifled barrel? The Buffalo Bore offerings seem interesting for the backwoods application.
CorBon DPX works great, I have alot of dead hogs that can vouch for it. I carry my handloads alot as well, it is a combo of HS-6 and 180gr Gold Dots.
related...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e2c_1271191754
Alpha Sierra
04-14-10, 05:29
I appreciate all the feedback and I don't want to beat this thread to death, but I was doing a little counter cruising this afternoon and came up with a couple of additional questions. The stainless S&W 629 Mountain Gun was priced the same as a Model 29 "Classic" (blued, not the nickel) which had a slightly heavier barrel, backstrap, etc. Any S&W aficionados have any preferences?
If they are priced the same, go for the 629 MG. Stainless is obviously easier to care for, though of course not rustproof. The lighter barrel contour of the MG balances more neutrally and shaves several ounces. As far as the frame itself (including the grip's front and back straps), all N frames are identical for the style of grip (round or square butt). What you might have seen on them were different stocks.
Dan Goodwin
04-14-10, 06:13
As a professional gun whore, I have a number of handguns suitable for outdoor purposes. In Middle Tennessee, humans are the apex predators, so unless I'm hunting I generally carry a Glock in 9 or .40.
I do own a G29 that I load with DoubleTap 200 grain WFNGCs at 1,300 or so that would work pretty well in black bear country, or when I'm off duty and might have to shoot a killer whale or penetrate auto coachwork. Been carrying it frequently.
Also have a Mountain Gun bought new in '93. It hurts to shoot hot 300-grainers out of it, but were I somewhere where grizzlies might pop up that would be the minimum. A Marlin Guide Gun would be a far better choice.
I did see an article _with pictures _ in one of the gun magazines a month or so back where an Alaskan used a Super Redhawk Alaskan in .454 or .480 to successfully drop an attacking brown bear near his home.
Personally, I like my .44s. I have not fired the rugers in 454 except the super redhawks. The recoil was shall we say, substantial.
I also have and carry a older model vaquero in 45lc which will shoot 335grain corbon, hardcast lead reasonably well but even with rubber grips the recoil was once described to me as "inhumane".
That was the main reason when I purchased a stainless carry 44 I went with the ruger redhawk 4in barrel instead of the alaskan in 454. With full bore 44mags in the 300-305grain range I can rapid fire all 6 into a 8" plate at 25yds.
I would seriously look at the 4" redhawk over the Smiths. Now I own 3 smith 29s and love them. They shoot like a dream and the action is buttery smooth. But I believe Cor bon and buffalo bore don't recommend shooting their heavy stuff in SW 29s. The Redhawk and super redhawk lock the cylinder at both the front and back, have much thicker, stouter frames and cylinders. They also tend to be about $200 cheaper which is just enough to send the ruger to magnaport and have the action and porting job done. Don't even consider Taurus for this use. The cylinder is too short to shoot 300+ grain bullets.
SW .44 Mountain 270 Speer GDSP's, 2 extra loaders. That's in addition to the rifle-especially with the Bow.
This would be my 5" S&W 629, short enough to be handy & long enough to still have mag velocities.
A 4" Redhawk sounds interesting, I'll have to look into it.
Smith and Wesson 586 with 125 grain jacketed hollow points, 357 Magnum variety.
Any gun I can get in stainless I will get in stainless over the blued version, a no-brainer for me.
montanadave
04-16-10, 23:47
The die is cast! I found a Ruger Redhawk with the 4 inch barrel at a local sporting goods store, the wife cut the check, and I brought it home this morning. And I ordered up a Simply Rugged Sourdough pancake holster to tote it around in. Feels like a tank and I'm planning on getting to the range with it next week. Happy trails and, again, thanks for the advice. Always nice to hear a variety of opinions.
I will now begin stalking a HK P30S 9mm or FN-FNP .45 Tactical--whichever hits the market first. Ah, the thrill of the hunt!
Congratulations!
Sounds like a winner Dave, on both the revolver and the sweet wife.
Which cartridge did you get your Ruger in? .44 Mag?
ROCKET20_GINSU
04-17-10, 16:25
I don't have woods where I currently live, Southern Nevada, my main concern is 2 legged threats so when I go hiking I usually just throw my carry gun in my pack for short jaunts, for longer ones I'll use a wilderness safepacker holster attached to the kidney pad.
I find that my carry guns, G26 w/ CT laser or 642 w/ CT laser both work really well because I usually pocket carry for EDC so I can just take the holster and pistol together and throw it in its own pouch on the pack w/o any concerns, and the package is not very heavy so it is a very small burden to haul.
GU
does nobody else pack a carbine for wilderness adventures?
I carry a Glock 19 with 147 gr. FMJ flatnose, extra mags (glock 17). I do not live in bear country. If I did I think I would roll with a Glock 10mm or a 44Mag wheel gun.
Alpha Sierra
04-17-10, 18:39
I carry a Glock 19 with 147 gr. FMJ flatnose, extra mags (glock 17). I do not live in bear country. If I did I think I would roll with a Glock 10mm or a 44Mag wheel gun.
Since obviously your intended use is anti-personnel, why carry FMJ?
At this point I got a 4inch model 28 357 Nframe with 200 grain hardcast loads I would like a model 20 when I am mowing at my came I carry the NFRAME off season. During hunting season I got a 30-30 lever gun and a G17 or 1100 12 gauge with slugs.
GitmoSmoke
04-17-10, 20:06
When hiking in the North Cascades of Washington I carry my 6.5" 629 Classic loaded with Blazer 44specials. 200gr Gold Dot @ 900 fps. Excellent expansion, accuracy and easy to control. That should do for anything but bears. If bear signs are noticed I swithch to Garrett hammerhead hard cast, 310gr @ 1325 fps. I keep the cylinder loaded with gold dots and take 2 speedloaders of specials and 2of Garrett in a belt pouch.
montanadave
04-17-10, 20:20
Which cartridge did you get your Ruger in? .44 Mag?
Yep, .44 magnum. And I'm thinking of ordering up a box of the Grizzly 300gr Punch cartridges. Looks like a hell of a load and a hell of a bullet even if they are crazy expensive. Given that I hope to never use them for their intended purpose, I can afford a box for the piece of mind, however delusional that may be.
Dan Goodwin
04-18-10, 09:13
If you handload, practice deploying your Redhawk from your excellent holster (did you get the Chesty Puller rig for it?) and firing double and triple taps inside 10 yards with a relatively mild load (8.5 gr. Unique behind a 240 LSWC) to smooth yourself and the gun out.
Even in the weighty Redhawk, hot 300-grainers probably won't be much fun in practice and you may develop a flinch. Lot more difference than 9mm vs. .45...
mattpittinger
04-18-10, 17:06
does nobody else pack a carbine for wilderness adventures?
Whenever it is possible
"The purpose of the handgun is to fight your way back to the rifle you should of never put down in the first place." ....... Great quote on the subject
I have Alpha Sierra's twin sister:p I have a 629 Mt Gun with Ahrends grips. Carry in a Milt Sparks holster or Blackhawk fanny pack. I use Corbon JSP 300gr. They scream, but are actually very accurate at 25yds and I scream at the recoil:p It is my favorite gun to shoot when loaded with 44 specials... feels like a 38 that throws bowling balls:D
Notice I blurred out the dog's face too:p
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/45Fundi/IMG_1688_2.jpg
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/45Fundi/IMG_1685_2.jpg
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/45Fundi/IMG_1719.jpg
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/45Fundi/IMG_1626.jpg
Tom Miner Basin more Griz than anywhere in lower 48 according to my ranger buddies in Yellowstone. I proposed to my soon to be ex-wife under that small tree in the meadow on the left while wearing this gun, so it might be for sale as it is unlucky for me;)
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr280/45Fundi/IMG_3310.jpg
Stainless Delta Elite 10mm
I also carry a long gun of some sort in the woods whenever I can. Sometimes for hunting, but even when I am not hunting since we have a number of douche bags that like to grow dope, dump meth labs, strip stolen cars, etc. in the woods. Regardless I carry a handgun no matter what, even when trail running, etc.
Years ago I skydived way off target and landed in a dope field. Bad feeling that was to have to GTFOOD on foot, unarmed.
does nobody else pack a carbine for wilderness adventures?
so the person that I know that had to actually shoot a bear in the face decided the answer to that problem was a .44mag (with .44spec in it.) I keep trying to tell him the answer is very simple. .45-70 lever action carbine. he just doesn't want to tote it around in the woods.
Incidently, when he reported the whole incident to the ranger, they gave him some 12ga rubber bullets.
Uncle Alvah
04-23-10, 14:43
he just doesn't want to tote it around in the woods.
Had a stand-off with a grizzly in Alaska years ago, sow and three cubs. I was "armed" with a Model 19 .357.
Bear headed out, gratefully.
I sold that .357 within days of the encounter and bought a pump 30/06 and carried it everywhere from that day. With bear, any gun is better than no gun(44 mag is nice), but no gun that you hold in one hand is really "suitable".
I see some of the shooting schools teach "defensive bear" shooting, complete with being "charged" by a piece of vicious cardboard. Good way for the instructors to make their loan payments I guess, but thats about it...................
PRGGodfather
04-23-10, 15:11
Marlin 1895G in .45-70 Govt.
Colt Anaconda 6" .44 mag.
For most urban/suburban "woods"--standard duty gun.
For real wilderness, a .44 Mag 5" S&W 629 w/300 gr Hornady XTP and whenever possible a long-gun, typically a .45-70 16" Marlin 1895GS modified by Ashley Emerson loaded with Buffalo Bore 405 gr JSP's or an 18" 870P w/Brenneke slugs.
Montanadave,
Hope you enjoy that Ruger. I really like mine. Had a Sheriff friend who does leather make this rig for me.
High Desert
04-26-10, 17:01
I have been using the Milt Sparks holster that M4Fundi posted pics of for about 8 years now. It's by far my favorite outdoors holster.
You may want to consider a good mould and lead pot too. Not only can you tailor your loads to meet your needs but you can shoot a lot more, always a good thing.
Having succsessfully hunted with a handgun and personally been there when a friend took a buffalo with his, I dont feel undergunned in the back country with a revolver and cast bullet loads.
Enjoy!
HD
Not for nothing but as far as predators go, a hand gun, even the mighty .44mag aint gonna be worth much.
if you're talking about cats, you'll be lucky to get a shot off since they're more likely to be on top of you before know they're even in the area.
Bears, even blackies, are tough. I know someone that shot a black bear *in the FACE* from point blank range and only managed to persuade it that it wanted to be someplace else.
hunting with a handgun is different since you usually get a better shot than when you're the hunted. A handgun will take a cat or a bear if you get to pick the animal and the angle. Now if you're trying to hit the front of an angry animal, the odds go down pretty quickly.
The gun guy in me wants to believe that any gun is better than no gun, but most of the guys I know that work in Kodiak and the other islands say that you are asking for trouble by thinking of any handgun as "bear defense".
It doesn't take too much searching to turn up recent, reliable reports from authorities finding what was left of a human being with an empty gun lying next to it.
In 35 + years of wandering the Rockies, including calling in predators, I've only been attacked once by wild animals, 3 Bighorn Sheep, of all things. They were dropping lambs and I happened into the wrong place at the wrong time. The largest Ram (huge) got within 10 feet, prepped to charge and instead of drawing the 10mm, I threw a snowball at him...it would have sucked getting whacked by a huge, protective Ram, but I didn't want to have to explain my actions to a possible animal rights activist court...so I took a chance and fortunately for both me and the Ram it worked out. I couple of snowballs and I was able to quickly back pedal out of there.
So did it attack you or just give you a dirty look?:D
Now get some good Hardcast bullets for that Bear Killer!! If you load, load up some medium powered 240 gr Cast performance bullets. If you prefer store bought, the best thing for your needs is a box or two of Buffalo Bore Hard Cast. They are made in the great state of MT and make incredible ammo.
I know a guy who has killed over 20 Bull Elk with a 44 Special using hard cast and he swears, as do many, that a good hard cast 44 or 45 at around 900-1000FPS will shoot end for end thru an Elk!! Hard cast is the way to go for Bear Defense.
The gun guy in me wants to believe that any gun is better than no gun, but most of the guys I know that work in Kodiak and the other islands say that you are asking for trouble by thinking of any handgun as "bear defense".
It doesn't take too much searching to turn up recent, reliable reports from authorities finding what was left of a human being with an empty gun lying next to it.
And the same can be said for the many reports of "what was left of the bear".
That's the beauty of living in a "free state" we have the right to choose whether or not to be wandering around unarmed or armed, I'll choose the later. And I have no quarrel with, nor will I try and change the thinking of those who choose otherwise, it's a free country.
Ditto on the Hard Cast!
Having been a bulls-eye shooter, I favored a .45 Gold Cup and hardball.
In my senior years, I'm more likely to drive to a secluded area, "dismount", and stay within 1/2 mile of my truck. I now carry a Glock 19 loaded with the old Federal Classic Hi-Shok +P+ 115 gr JHP from a jealously guarded stash. Some say this load is obsolete, but so am I.
I fear the predator who cooks and mama wild hog. Years back I stumbled upon a woods kitchen while turkey hunting and retreated without being killed probably because of the young age and inexperience of the cooks. In today's world I likely would not have been as lucky.
Williejc
When I lived in Wyoming I would carry a Smith 1006 with 175gr Silvertips. I figured it was adequate for Black Bears and Cougars as well as 2 legged predators. Had I been in Northern Wyoming and Griz country I would have wanted something more. The Smith is still my "camp" pistol but being in the PRK it isn't really an issue when it comes to carry. :rolleyes:
It's been a good gun, a little heavy but that does help soak up the recoil and I can always use it to stake a tent. ;)
Those 1006's are good guns, that's one I regret parting with.
I carry a Vaquero in 357 loaded with cor bon 180s. When I'm out camping or on my families property I carry a 870 with #4 buck and #7 shot. Not really for people but yotes and snakes. On a side note I once was hunting on my grand mothers land and stumbled on a poacher sitting in his truck past the fence he cut to get in. I find knocking on the window with the barrel of a 300 win mag keeps everybody civil. I was to young for a pistol. Only thing to worry about here is people, snakes, and maybe a wild hog.
And the same can be said for the many reports of "what was left of the bear".
That's the beauty of living in a "free state" we have the right to choose whether or not to be wandering around unarmed or armed, I'll choose the later. And I have no quarrel with, nor will I try and change the thinking of those who choose otherwise, it's a free country.
Ditto on the Hard Cast!
I haven't seen many reports of people stopping big bruin attacks with handguns, but I'm sure it happens. I didn't say anything about a person's rights, and you can do what you want. I have no experience, but I regularly work with people that have to deal with large coastal brown bears in their work environment on a regular basis. The vast majority say that you are playing a dangerous game when you think about using a handcannon against a big bear. I call that a clue. Hunting is one thing, but these guys plow down 4" saplings like weeds when they charge. I would have a hard time not shooting, but you would probably better off with bear spray. I'm told it's not uncommon for hunters to shake a bunch of old slugs out of a hyde when the skin a big bear.
ETA: Where is Alaskapopo?
Large coastal bears are a whole different ball game and if I was going to be around them on a regular basis I'd give them a whole lot of respect and an extra wide berth, while having some sort of carbine nearby and the right handgun strapped to my hip.
Bear spray might be fine, but a heavy, well placed hard cast in the noggin is going to bring down anything, they're not indestructible.
Large coastal bears are a whole different ball game and if I was going to be around them on a regular basis I'd give them a whole lot of respect and an extra wide berth, while having some sort of carbine nearby and the right handgun strapped to my hip.
Bear spray might be fine, but a heavy, well placed hard cast in the noggin is going to bring down anything, they're not indestructible.
I don't know what I would trust. Some people put so much thought into their CCW ammo, but have the attitude of "this will probably work" when it comes to large animals. I honestly think I'm just a big sissy when it comes to the prospect of being eaten alive.:D
Beat Trash
05-01-10, 08:39
Whenever I see a Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun, My first thought is always, "If I ever had to worry about being eaten, this is the gun I would carry."
Loaded up with hard cast bullets, I'm thinking it might work?
But where I live, the only four legged threats in the woods are feral dogs and coyotes.
The two legged threats are more likely to be an issue. My Glock 19 9mm can handle the threats found in my area.
I'd just get a good quality .44 or .45 Long Colt and load it up with the stiffest hard cast loads I could manage. Buffalo Bore probably has exactly what's needed for off the shelf.
Practice a lot with light or .44 special loads. But make certain you can deliver a cylinder full of the hard cast on target at close range, relatively quickly.
I don't have to mess with large bears, just lions, large black bear, moose, bison and pissed off range bulls. We have phantom grizz and wolves but I haven't see any sign of them and of course the occasional two legged varmint.
I know I can place 10mm Double Tap 200 grain FMJ or XTP's at my point of aim out to 15 yards and do so rapidly. Will this save my ass in the event of a animal attack?
I don't know.
But my best strategy is to not put my self in a position to find out. But when it comes down to being eaten or pounded into the dirt by a large beast, I'm going out with my boots on. I figure I'd have at least a 50/50 chance.
Stuff with animals can happen so fast and it's then that you probably don't have a chance in hell. On the other hand sometimes you have ample time and warning...it's those times I don't want to be caught off guard.
Ever been in a position where you need a gun and don't have one? It's a sinking feeling I don't ever want to repeat.
I'd pay attention to the locals who have worked around bears and heed their advice but with a bit of discernment. There are many well meaning outdoor folks in my haunts who wouldn't think of ever having a gun...more power to them, but if they have some other advice that may be valuable I listen.
The carbine would be the best choice, but bad things tend to happen quickly and when you don't have it with you. Which is why a gun on you hip with an appropriate load that you can use well is better then nothing.
Just my two cents.
montanadave
05-01-10, 11:57
Ever been in a position where you need a gun and don't have one? It's a sinking feeling I don't ever want to repeat.
I'd pay attention to the locals who have worked around bears and heed their advice but with a bit of discernment. There are many well meaning outdoor folks in my haunts who wouldn't think of ever having a gun...more power to them, but if they have some other advice that may be valuable I listen.
The carbine would be the best choice, but bad things tend to happen quickly and when you don't have it with you. Which is why a gun on you hip with an appropriate load that you can use well is better then nothing.
Just my two cents.
As the originator of this thread (and taking into account I was talking about what to carry while hiking or backpacking), I have to say this about sums up the position I have adopted based on my own experience, research and many thoughtful comments posted here.
I think there's a lot of value in these two cents.
Renegade3745
05-01-10, 13:40
S&W 686 .357 Magnum, with at least 2 speed loaders. Jacketed hollow points are a must have. ;)
Seen quite a few mountain lion tracks while out hiking up north/camping. Occasionally a few bull elk, but they keep their distance.
A friend of mine went out camping a year or so back with a bunch of guys from work, brought his MAC-10 and his AK47 along for some shooting/plinking. About the second night out a large bear decided to harass them from just within the tree/brush line of were they set up camp. A few warning shots deterred it for a bit, but it kept coming back (it was dinner time and someone hadn't disposed of the grease/ left overs properly).
varoadking
05-01-10, 23:57
Can't remember the last time I was in the woods...
I think Uncle Sugar was picking up the tab back then...maybe 1980?
I tend to camp above treeline and the only wild animals I've had 'problems' with are marmots, which I'd never consider shooting.
Since obviously your intended use is anti-personnel, why carry FMJ?
I carry 124 speer gold dots for CCW...There is a very slim chance I would run into a black bear so I carry FMJ for penetration. How much more is it going to do? I don't know....perhaps not much, but I feel a little better.
Until I get my 357Mag or 10mm this is all I have.
another vote for a glock 20
I've known 2 people in MT mauled by Griz. One killed the bear with a 44 Mag and the other wounded the bear with his 30-06. The guy with the rifle managed to get one shot off into the body. He then ran across Mill Creek (Mill Crick;)) as he was running up the bank the bear swiped his legs turned him over and grabbed him by the shoulder and shook him, dropped him, screamed at him and ran off. He survived but with his pectoral never to reach his shoulder properly again. The other guy a notorious nutter shot the bears jaw off at close range and then the bear knocked him down and proceeded to tear him to pieces by stabbing him with his upper canines. He had no bites, but was ravaged and it took 20+ surgeries to get him back together. He managed to push the muzzle inot the bears eye socket and get a shot off killing the bear and walk out of the Tom Miner Basin to a restaurant. I worked with some biologists in Yellowstone doing a moose study and one of the biologists was chased into a bush by a cow moose. He unloaded 2 cannisters of pepper spray into the mooses face as she stomped him. He only survived as the branches deflected her hooves enough so she never caught him square, but the pepper spray would not have saved him. You could not sit in the truck with him for days as the pepper spray was oozing from the pores of his skin:p Plus in the rockies withe pepper spray if the wind is not in your favor you simply spray yourself:eek: When on foot I carry pepper spray connected to a trekking pole which keeps it at hand and can use the pole as a poker:rolleyes: and then the 629 on my hip. If I was in a standoff I would try the pepper spray, but if the bear is running I go strait to the gun.
The great thing about the 629 is S&W & others can give you an excellent double action trigger pull so you can fire more quickly and without adjusting your grip like on SA revolvers. If the bear is running at you you will get one shot standing and then be shooting from on your back:eek:
Bringing it back!
Because my latest attempt at my perfect "woods/trail" gun didn't work out.
It's gone this way:
-Taurus .44 magnum 4-inch. Heavy. Cylinder fell off. Fail.
Decided I wanted something lighter and concealable.
-Glock 20 10mm. At over 40 oz loaded, it gets heavy. Reliability issues with hot loads.
-Glock 29 10mm. Never made it to the woods. Brand new, had those horrible stoppages with empty brass getting stuck lengthwise between barrel and slide. Dealer (buddy) bought it back. Besides, the recoil jabbed hard into the center of my palm, hated it.
Years later, got a Glock 20SF. Same exact issues as the G20 before, although I liked the grip.
-Glock 32 Gen4 - Some stoppage issues I fixed. For some reason I sold/traded it to a relative. He likes it so much I can't get it back. Oops. I didn't like the fact that there is no "lower recoil" .357 auto ammo to practice with.
-Glock 27 Gen 3 (Got it cheap!) with 4 inch .357 auto barrel. (Factory Glock 32 barrel) This one didn't make it out to the woods either, though I did carry it some. (Oops) First 300 rnds or so went okay, but now I'm getting stoppages, at least with the .357 barrel in it. And again, no low-recoil practice ammo.
I have carried my daily carry guns on hikes and such but not confidently. 9mm's and .357 snubbies. No, not the Beretta Cheetah!
So, I'm planning some trips in the fall and my G27 w/.357 barrel hasn't worked out.
So what should I carry in the wilderness?
I have a Ruger LCR .357 mag 1.8 inch, a G19, I can fiddle with the G27 with .357 auto barrel, or get something else.
I'm limiting the weight to 35 oz max loaded. I'm not killing my ears and hands with a .44 magnum, either.
The only "get something else" that keeps coming to mind is a Ruger SP-101 .357 mag with the 4 inch barrel. I've had two Sp101's and a Gp100 before so I'm very familiar with them already. The Sp101 4 inch is only about 31 oz loaded. The same as a G19.
Thoughts?
What do you carry in the woods?
You must be bored as **** to bring a 7-8 year old thread back to life, when it was stillborn in the first place.
You must be bored as **** to bring a 7-8 year old thread back to life, when it was stillborn in the first place.
Well, I searched for an old thread first. I figured there had to be one about this.
Still born? It was ten pages!
Well, I searched for an old thread first. I figured there had to be one about this.
Still born? It was ten pages!
Don't be polite. Ask him how bored he is making inane posts. :rolleyes:
Me, I'm bored and tired just cut down a BF tree.
The Walking Dead carry gun thread.
The Walking Dead carry gun thread.
Nickel 6" Python in that case. :D
Just for curiosity, I looked at a map of the Black Bear's range.
The far southwest part of it includes some of N. America's driest deserts; South Central Kalifornia, Arizona, NM - West TX.
How does a bear get by in such pitiless deserts?
Dr. Bullseye
07-15-18, 17:30
I'm in California and am also in the National Forest daily walking the dogs. I have done this for 30 years, daily. I feel safe in the forest, safer than with humans. We have mountain lions and black bears but we, the dogs and I, were never threatened even when we ran into a mountain lion.
Brown bears are another whole story. These are apex predators just like tigers. And they are aggressive. If I lived where there were brown bears, I would go out in a tank.
Just for curiosity, I looked at a map of the Black Bear's range.
The far southwest part of it includes some of N. America's driest deserts; South Central Kalifornia, Arizona, NM - West TX.
How does a bear get by in such pitiless deserts?
Compare that map to a topographical one of the same regions and you'll probably see a correlation. Black bears can do well in higher elevation mountain terrain where you typically find a lot of insects, small shrubs (berries) and rivers.
On a trail gun: My normal carry gun has always been satisfactory for me in my environment with cougars and blacks being the biggest potential threats - and on that I'm far more concerned with cougars than black bears. Having finally seen a grizzly in person while travelling a couple years ago, I wouldn't feel confident wandering their turf without something on the level of a SCAR17 and a battle buddy... Black bears are about the size of big dogs around here, grizzlies are just enormous. I'm just not as tough as these guys you see trekking through Alaska with 50 year old 30-06 bolt rifle.
Saw a video a while ago of a hunter shooting a grizzly with a .300 Win Mag. Shot it 4-5 times before it stopped running; good thing the bear didn't know where they were.
Heavy Metal
07-15-18, 21:18
Don't do what I did, get lazy and take the J-Frame the one time you have to use it.
Long story short, a fawn ran past me with a black bear in tow. I ended up drawn into a fight not of my own making and had to shoot the bear. It stopped and ran back the way it came, the shot bought him out of his trance. It did, not, however, stop it dead in its tracks. I am going to get a Glock 29. In the meantime, I am carrying my much-mocked, Glock 23 in 40SW.
Gunnar da Wolf
07-15-18, 21:43
Black bears are about the size of big dogs around here, grizzlies are just enormous.
Not too many years ago I was on a narrow road about eight mile away from the WV State Capitol when a black bear crossed in front of my Jeep Wrangler. Its back paws were on the right road edge, its front paws were on the left edge and its back was taller than my hood. It jumped across and scrambled up a hillside that you or I would call a “cliff” like a cat. Luckily the bear hunters can run them with dogs here even during times when hunting season is closed. They are educated to avoid humans.
I carry either my S&W Mtn Gun in .44 or lately my Ruger SR1911 in 10mm when hiking in case we meet an uneducated bear or one of the Mtn Lions that DNR says we don’t have here.
I doubt I will travel to where the brown bears are but it's remotely possible some day. Concerns are more black bears, people, alligators, wild pigs, wild dogs, panthers or mountain lions.
I should point out the loads I'm thinking about for .357 mag. are 180 gr JHP's and hot, hard 180 gr SWC's. For .44 Special/magnums I'm thinking of the "Keith style" loads 255 gr hard SWC's at 950 fps.
I've narrowed it down to:
1. Screw it, just carry my G19 or borrow a family members G32 or G35. 30-35 oz. $0.
-Con: 9mm, .357 auto, or .40 all weaker than a hot .357 mag or hot .44 special.
-Pro: Cheap practice ammo, (9 and .40), bigger ammo capacity, pleasant to practice (9mm), Quality guns, medium size guns except the G35 is kinda big.
2. Ruger GP100 .44 special 5-shot. (Using hot loads) 42 ounces loaded. 5 inch barrel. About $650.
-Con: Pretty heavy. A little big, especially with 5 inch barrel. Gun is so heavy/big I'm afraid it might end up in a pack instead of on my hip. Practice ammo a little expensive.
-Pro: Looks and is quality, easy to work on, pleasant to shoot. Medium frame size. 3-inch barrel also available.
3. Ruger GP100 .357 mag 7-shot. 4.2 inch barrel. 41 ounces loaded.
-Con: Pretty heavy. A little big. Gun is so heavy/big I'm afraid it might end up in a pack instead of on my hip. 357 mag weaker than a hot .44 special. Much better than a 9mm/.357 auto/.40?
-Pro: Looks and is quality, easy to work on, pleasant to shoot. Medium frame size. Cheap practice ammo.
4. Ruger GP100 10mm 6-shot. 4.2 inch barrel. 40 ounces loaded.
-Con: Pretty heavy. A little big. Gun is so heavy/big I'm afraid it might end up in a pack instead of on my hip. Can use the best 10mm without worrying about function problems. (Like an auto). Moon clips. Probably still not as powerfull as a hot .44 special but very close with the hottest of 10mm loads.
-Pro: Looks and is quality, easy to work on, pleasant to shoot. Medium frame size. Cheap practice ammo. (.40) .Moon clips.
5. Ruger Sp101 .357 mag 5-shot, 4 inch barrel. (Using hot loads) 34 ounces loaded. About $650.
-Con: .357 mag weaker than a hot .44 special. Much better than a 9mm/.357 auto/.40?
-Pro: Looks and is quality, easy to work on, pleasant to shoot, small frame size, narrow 5-shot .357 cylinder. Cheap practice ammo.
6. Glock 20 SF 10mm. 16-shot. 4.6 inch barrel. 41 ounces loaded. About $550.
Con: Have had one before. Didn't function well with the hot loads so I'd be using 180 gr at 1200 fps or 200 gr at 1100 fps. Worth it over 9mm/.357/.40? Heavy, but carries better than a revolver. Would be more likely to stay on my hip. Glock trigger, meh. Glock grip, another meh.
Pro: Quality. Can practice with .40 ammo which is cheap and pleasant to shoot. 16 rnds.
Not too many years ago I was on a narrow road about eight mile away from the WV State Capitol when a black bear crossed in front of my Jeep Wrangler. Its back paws were on the right road edge, its front paws were on the left edge and its back was taller than my hood. It jumped across and scrambled up a hillside that you or I would call a “cliff” like a cat. Luckily the bear hunters can run them with dogs here even during times when hunting season is closed. They are educated to avoid humans.
I carry either my S&W Mtn Gun in .44 or lately my Ruger SR1911 in 10mm when hiking in case we meet an uneducated bear or one of the Mtn Lions that DNR says we don’t have here.
Oh my, that's a bigun'
HK p30
if I had the holster , need to grab my 8 shot 357 M&P
PB
I carry because I don’t want to be caught of guard by someone wild animal(s) or creepy serial killer..
This.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180717/3174eaaf287f7cdcba3050ee6a7e0b88.jpg
I'm probably a thousand miles from the nearest brown/grizzly bear. So I'm reading this thread from an academic standpoint.
The heaviest bear handgun I have is a six inch .357. I could load it up with Buffalo Bore hard cast 180s. It would do the job, but seems a bit light.
If I thought I'd run into such a bear, I'd want my home defense shotgun with sabot slugs, and back it up with a .454.
I'm in California and am also in the National Forest daily walking the dogs. I have done this for 30 years, daily. I feel safe in the forest, safer than with humans. We have mountain lions and black bears but we, the dogs and I, were never threatened even when we ran into a mountain lion.
Brown bears are another whole story. These are apex predators just like tigers. And they are aggressive. If I lived where there were brown bears, I would go out in a tank.
Brown bears aren't actually that aggressive. I've encountered well over 40 brown bears while in the outdoors where I live. I've had them in the back of my truck, in the alley way between the buildings at my store, on my porch, and at my favorite fishing hole. I've had a dog mauled by two y.o. brown bear cubs (dog lived). Every single one of them has run off at the sight or smell of me. Yes, they have been known to kill people in Alaska, but the number is still relatively small considering the amount of bears and people that live in bear habitat.
I carry every day. I carry a Glock 19 because I believe the human threat in my area far exceeds that of the brown bear threat. When I actually head into the woods without a rifle, I carry a Glock 20 (10mm).. because of the familiarity I have with Glocks. I feel pretty safe in the woods, and like thousands of Alaskans do every day, I might head out without a firearm at all.
This.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180717/3174eaaf287f7cdcba3050ee6a7e0b88.jpg
Sweet....
Another "Mountain Gun" fan in calibers beginning with .4X.
https://i.imgur.com/3ZlJtZp.jpg?1
Depends on where I'm at. I hunt in 2 completely different places. One has a ton of big hogs and I've shot 5-6 350lb + boars. When in those woods I'm carrying a Ruger Super Blackhawk 45LC with a stout Buffalo Bore load. Typically I'm deer hunting or depending upon the season Turkey hunting there and have run into hogs quite often. The other place I hunt has no hogs or other large predators so I'm carrying a G19. Last December I went black bear hunting with a buddy and put down a 412lb bear with my Ruger 45LC. Shot him running away at about 45 yards. Went just behind the left front shoulder and exited out through the front of the opposite shoulder. Bear went down in a heap and didn't budge. Our black bear here in the eastern/coastal part of NC easily get up to 700lbs and bigger. State/World record black bear was shot here and came in at 880lbs.
I bought a S&W Performance Center 629 V-comp .44 Mag for such purposes. Since then, I've picked up a Glock 20 10mm and a Springfield TRP Operator in 10mm. So, one of those three. I've got the western hemisphere covered.
hotrodder636
07-17-18, 18:39
Very nice! That is what I am looking for in .44 for my bear gun.
Another "Mountain Gun" fan in calibers beginning with .4X.
https://i.imgur.com/3ZlJtZp.jpg?1
Heavy4Caliber
07-18-18, 11:26
I'm more concerned about two-legged problems rather than four here in NC, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of encounters with coyotes, bobcats, or black bear. My options include a Gen4 G20 or a S&W 4" 629.
sundance435
07-18-18, 11:32
I'm probably a thousand miles from the nearest brown/grizzly bear. So I'm reading this thread from an academic standpoint.
The heaviest bear handgun I have is a six inch .357. I could load it up with Buffalo Bore hard cast 180s. It would do the job, but seems a bit light.
If I thought I'd run into such a bear, I'd want my home defense shotgun with sabot slugs, and back it up with a .454.
Same here, but I enjoy reading these threads for some vicarious "mountain man" living. I do hope to go hiking in Glacier and Yellowstone in the future and I'll definitely be packing when I do.
I'm more concerned about two-legged problems rather than four here in NC, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of encounters with coyotes, bobcats, or black bear. My options include a Gen4 G20 or a S&W 4" 629.
Several of you have mentioned coyotes. Are these like coydog mutants? The 'yotes around here would never come close to a human, even on the off chance there was a pack of them, since they're pretty solitary.
Can someone help me out and give me a brief rundown of Pros/Cons for .44 Special vs. heavy .357 for these types of applications?
Bravo Sierra
07-18-18, 12:00
Same here, but I enjoy reading these threads for some vicarious "mountain man" living. I do hope to go hiking in Glacier and Yellowstone in the future and I'll definitely be packing when I do.
Several of you have mentioned coyotes. Are these like coydog mutants? The 'yotes around here would never come close to a human, even on the off chance there was a pack of them, since they're pretty solitary.
Can someone help me out and give me a brief rundown of Pros/Cons for .44 Special vs. heavy .357 for these types of applications?
Ammo capacity. I dont see why you would need either of those for coyotes. If thats all you have just pick the lightest one.
Heavy4Caliber
07-18-18, 12:12
Same here, but I enjoy reading these threads for some vicarious "mountain man" living. I do hope to go hiking in Glacier and Yellowstone in the future and I'll definitely be packing when I do.
Several of you have mentioned coyotes. Are these like coydog mutants? The 'yotes around here would never come close to a human, even on the off chance there was a pack of them, since they're pretty solitary.
Can someone help me out and give me a brief rundown of Pros/Cons for .44 Special vs. heavy .357 for these types of applications?
Most 'yotes I've seen while hunting have been from a distance, but my wife and a friend have had a couple of closer-than-desired-encounters while out on runs. No doubt a case of curiosity rather than aggression in both instances. I include them in my mental list of possible threats only because I know they inhabit the areas I'm hunting in, and I'd hate to encounter a rabid one with limited options. I'm also satisfied that both the 10mm and .44 spl/magnum are more than I would need to dispatch a coyote should the need occur...but I just prefer heavier calibers as opposed to lighter ones for woods carry.
defense523
09-18-18, 20:00
AZ has mostly 2 legged tweeters with the occasional black bear and mountain lion. I just picked up a PD trade in Glock 35 for my woods guns. Lighter than my 1911, P226 and P228’s with just as much ammo. Full power .40 is just fine for my woods.
Dr. Bullseye
09-18-18, 21:18
I am in Calif. I am in the USNF daily, in deep forest. There are no brown bears here. I am not afraid at all. The only time I carry a gun is when I go shooting because I shoot in this same forest. I am a more afraid in Walmart than in the forest.
I am in Calif. I am in the USNF daily, in deep forest. There are no brown bears here. I am not afraid at all. The only time I carry a gun is when I go shooting because I shoot in this same forest. I am a more afraid in Walmart than in the forest.
You don’t carry a gun because you’re in California, homie.
defense523
09-19-18, 11:17
Yes he does. The ammo is just carried in a separate, locked zipper pocket in a magazine whose capacity doesn’t exceed 10 cartridges.
crusader377
09-19-18, 13:09
Same here, but I enjoy reading these threads for some vicarious "mountain man" living. I do hope to go hiking in Glacier and Yellowstone in the future and I'll definitely be packing when I do.
Several of you have mentioned coyotes. Are these like coydog mutants? The 'yotes around here would never come close to a human, even on the off chance there was a pack of them, since they're pretty solitary.
Can someone help me out and give me a brief rundown of Pros/Cons for .44 Special vs. heavy .357 for these types of applications?
I killed a coyote which was likely rabid a year ago at my parents house. It went down from a single hit from a 9mm FMJ round. Average Coyote is 30-40lbs and even large ones rarely exceed 50 or 60lbs. Coyotes simply aren't that tough of an animal to kill.
Business_Casual
09-19-18, 19:36
Can someone help me out and give me a brief rundown of Pros/Cons for .44 Special vs. heavy .357 for these types of applications?
The only thing I can offer you in the light/fast vs. slow/heavy debate that hasn’t been beaten to death is to mention that your LGS is stocking 5-6 flavors of .357 and 1-2 flavors of .44 Special. Even if your ammo depot is Walmart or Dicks. And based on a popular YouTube channel, even the cheapest .357 is pretty effective.
I usually carry my G34 whenever I go into the woods. Back around 2000/2001 I was in the woods cutting firewood. A stray/wild Lab/Golden/Collie looking mixed mutt just about attacked me. He was big and mean and was bearing down on me. He came within taking another step of me shooting him with my G22. Haven't been in the woods unarmed since.
I'd like to get a G40, always wanted a 10mm. Bunch of other things going on right now though. Maybe after Christmas.
NYH1.
SomeOtherGuy
09-20-18, 19:55
Empty bear spray can found near Wyoming guide killed in bear attack
https://ktvh.com/news/us-news/2018/09/18/empty-bear-spray-can-found-near-wyoming-guide-killed-in-bear-attack/
Definitely not a bad idea to carry a powerful handgun in bear country!
The Dumb Gun Collector
09-21-18, 17:17
These days just a regular old j-frame. I blasted a timber rattler just the other day.
For those with FaceBook.. Alaskan self defense brown bear kill with Glock 20 10mm... https://www.facebook.com/groups/299589237107193/permalink/685978508468262/
The only thing I can offer you in the light/fast vs. slow/heavy debate that hasn’t been beaten to death is to mention that your LGS is stocking 5-6 flavors of .357 and 1-2 flavors of .44 Special. Even if your ammo depot is Walmart or Dicks. And based on a popular YouTube channel, even the cheapest .357 is pretty effective.
I wanted a gun with a shorter barrel. That meant whatever caliber was going to be slowed up with that short barrel. So I went with .44 special because at least they are heavy.
Cruising through boards of hunters and such the most desirable woods calibers were .44 magnum (moderate, or just common factory loads usually), .45 Colt (loaded hot), .41 magnum, 10mm, and .45 acp. Pretty much in that order.
.357 magnum and .40 were the "well, if that's all ya got" calibers. The "woodsmen" in my family concur with this and carry the .44 mag, 10mm, and .45 acp most commonly in the woods. They shoot pigs mostly. They are retired and get out far more than me. :(
Anyway, I went with .44 special because a 5-shot .44 cylinder is the same size as a 6/7 shot .357 cylinder. The 3 inch barrel sends a 255 gr "Keith" load around 925-950 fps based on other guy's guns and chrono's.
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