View Full Version : AR Factory Handguards vs. MOE
In an effort help my carbine shed a few pounds I've decided to sell my Knights RAS and either run MOE or factory handguards.
Leaning towards factory guards right now due to the fact that I wouldn't have to purchase them. I'm wanting to keep my M3X attached as well as my AFG but I'm fairly unfamiliar with mounting solutions when it comes to factory handguards.
Can someone clue me in on mounting solutions?
Also wondering if it would actually be smarter to purchase some MOE handguards rather than running factory handguards?
Thanks in advance.
it probably would be a smarter buy for MOE. They offer more options of adding rails. Its just a different feel to them also. I wouldnt have spent the money on them, but thats how this upper came, with the MOE handguards. Id save up and put a FF rail. Well thats IOM, and thats what i plan to do. Spend a good couple hundred dollar on a nice rail system.
The MOE is less than $30 and the rails are another $20ish plus covers.... a standard HG can have rails added to it.... several manufacturers make them in lengths from 1-12" or more. The MOE is a better option in my opinion but the factory HG can work.
Brownells sells the rail sections for the MOE handguards. They're listed on the same page. They also work with standard handguards.
I use a 2" piece mounted at 12 o'clock right behind the fsb for an offset VTAC light mount. Putting the rail at 2:30/9:30 would take 30 seconds with a drill.
I tried the MOE handguards and didn't care for them. They're easy to find used for @$25.
so get an MI front sight base mount for the light and a GG&G under foregrip rail and you will be good to go
so get an MI front sight base mount for the light and a GG&G under foregrip rail and you will be good to go
I gave thought to the MI FSB mount but it wouldnt allow for proper manipulation of the light I have. Where could I find the GG&G rail?
I gave thought to the MI FSB mount but it wouldnt allow for proper manipulation of the light I have. Where could I find the GG&G rail?
http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?cat=44&parents=38
they also have other options for mounting your light. just make sure you locktite the under foregrip rail
I just felt the carbine moe rail on a smith and wesson magpul edition, it feels much better than a standard m4 handguard in my opinion....it feels natural.
I assume we're talking about a carbine-length gas system and fixed front sight here?
My #1 gun is a colt 6933 which is a carbine-length gas, fixed front sight, 11.5" barrel. I originally used the standard M4 handguards on it until the MOE came out and I made the switch. I use an MI FSB mount and attach a Surefire X300 to that mount on the support side. This setup works great for me.
Given a 7.0 handguard length I am not a fan of attaching anything to it save perhaps a strategically located sling swivel if using the MOE. I don't find the plastic handguards, whether MOE or M4, to be sturdy/stable enough for mounting a VFG, and I find the overall length to be too cramped to mount a light (even with the X300, forget it with a longer light like a G2). The length issue applies, IMHO, even on railed 7.0 handguards.
Something else you may consider...
Believe it or not, a Daniel Defense M4 rail or Lite rail 9.0 over a shaved-down FSB as gas block and with a Troy flipup or DD fixed front sight attached weighs almost the EXACT same thing as a set of M4 handguards and a stock FSB. I, of course, can't find the photos right this second but I even have pictures showing this. I have a second 6933 that has the DD M4 rails. If you use something like the new Troy Extreme FF tube you could actually wind up SAVING weight over the stock setup! and a FF tube or rail system is a much better attachment point for a VFG.
to address your original question though, I find the MOE to be worth the <$30 they cost. I like the extra heat protection at the FSB, I like the little hook at the front end (no need for a FAG with that hook IMHO), and I think they lock up tighter and more securely than the stock handguards, and they are almost exactly a 1:1 in weight to a set of double-shield M4 handguards (the M4s get the weight edge if you ditch one layer of shielding).
Believe it or not, a Daniel Defense M4 rail or Lite rail 9.0 over a shaved-down FSB as gas block and with a Troy flipup or DD fixed front sight attached weighs almost the EXACT same thing as a set of M4 handguards and a stock FSB. I, of course, can't find the photos right this second but I even have pictures showing this. I have a second 6933 that has the DD M4 rails. If you use something like the new Troy Extreme FF tube you could actually wind up SAVING weight over the stock setup! and a FF tube or rail system is a much better attachment point for a VFG.
You read my mind. My original plan was to replace my FSB with a gas block or to shave down my FSB with the intent of buying the DDM4 rails. Then money became an issue. It really boiled down to either saving weight with the optic by consolidating from an M3 to a T-1 or saving weight through my rail system. I figured that I could do both by purchasing a T-1 and running MOE or factory handguards until I can re-coup from the T-1 purchase.
What do you think about a G2 with a VLTOR mount( or any non offset mount) attached to the FSB with the tail cap slightly protruding the end of the mount which adds a bit more room for manipulation?
It really boiled down to either saving weight with the optic by consolidating from an M3 to a T-1 or saving weight through my rail system. I figured that I could do both by purchasing a T-1 and running MOE or factory handguards until I can re-coup from the T-1 purchase.
FWIW, the H-1 is less expensive and, for our purposes, does everything the T-1 does.
What do you think about a G2 with a VLTOR mount( or any non offset mount) attached to the FSB with the tail cap slightly protruding the end of the mount which adds a bit more room for manipulation?
Like this? (I would have pushed the light slightly further forward, pretty much as far as it would go, on a non-SBR)
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/IMG_2870Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/IMG_2867Medium.jpg
http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/IMG_2868Medium.jpg
I'm seriously considering doing this when Magpul finally releases the rifle-length MOE. Going on the assumption they'll be -$100, I can sell my Larue 12.0 and still walk away with a new rail system with all the goodies. Sounds like a win-win. I wonder what the rifle-length MOE will weigh...
I'm seriously considering doing this when Magpul finally releases the rifle-length MOE. Going on the assumption they'll be -$100, I can sell my Larue 12.0 and still walk away with a new rail system with all the goodies. Sounds like a win-win. I wonder what the rifle-length MOE will weigh...
Rifle length not available yet but listed for $37.95. Even if this is a guess, they will be much less than $100.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=253204
ForTehNguyen
04-14-10, 10:46
middy and rifle are supposedly coming summer 2010, no exact dates. WTB middy MOE handguard in FDE
ejeffreyhorn
04-14-10, 10:57
Rifle length not available yet but listed for $37.95. Even if this is a guess, they will be much less than $100.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=253204
The 2010 Magpul catalog has the midlength MOE MSRP at $34.95 and the rifle length at $39.95. Midway is frequently a couple bucks lower than MSRP.
I am patiently awaiting the midlength MOE, illumination kit and MVG for my new 14.5" BCM.
The 2010 Magpul catalog has the midlength MOE MSRP at $34.95 and the rifle length at $39.95. Midway is frequently a couple bucks lower than MSRP.
I am patiently awaiting the midlength MOE, illumination kit and MVG for my new 14.5" BCM.
Me too...but I'm waiting on the BCM 14.5" middy too...patiently, patiently....
I've decided to sell my Knights RAS and either run MOE or factory handguards.
WTF??? :eek:
I'm doing the same. The only thing I have attached is a G2 in a VTac mount. I weighed the ras, g2 and vtac mount, came to 1.5lbs.That's atleast a pound that does nothing for me. This will probably endup getting stripped of all doo dads, asap, bad, t-1 etc. and those items put on my new bcm lightweight once they are in stock again.
WTF??? :eek:
That's what I said.
Scoby
Atticus Rex
04-17-10, 17:45
I gotta say that my MOE handguard has waaaay too much slop for my comfort. I've had different plastic handguards on and this one twists too much. I've decided against getting the new MVG (or VFG on a 2" rail) because there's too much play in the thing.
Anyone else get this with their MOEs?
Otherwise, I very much prefer the MOE ergonomics over the normal M4 handguard and it looks much better too...like the hull of a WW2 sub.
WTF??? :eek:
That's what I said.
Scoby
You have to look at it in a priority since. Yes they are wonderful but is the extra weight justifiable? is the price justifiable? Does it alter my shooting abilities in any way?
After answering those is when I came to the decision. Yes this is a defensive carbine and I would grab it if something very very serious were to ever go down but theres no practicality in spending money on all these gadgets for my ar when the weapon thats most readily available and that I have on me at all times is a handgun. Im not saying that I wont ever own another set of rails but I see it far more practical to save weight and money, and become more proficient with a handgun.
I gotta say that my MOE handguard has waaaay too much slop for my comfort. I've had different plastic handguards on and this one twists too much. I've decided against getting the new MVG (or VFG on a 2" rail) because there's too much play in the thing.
Anyone else get this with their MOEs?
Otherwise, I very much prefer the MOE ergonomics over the normal M4 handguard and it looks much better too...like the hull of a WW2 sub.
Out of curiosity, what color are yours?
The reason I ask is that I have two sets - one FDE, one FG. The FDEs lock up super tight on two different uppers but the FG set was loose on the same two uppers. No other changes - just swapping the MOEs back and forth.
After contacting Magpul they asked if I could send the FG set in for warranty replacement. The new ones should be here this week.
I asked Justin Beard if this could be a case of shrink rate difference between the colors (pigments can affect shrink), but he didn't think that was the case.
I expect the new set will be better - I really like the MOE profile!
Atticus Rex
04-18-10, 10:57
Out of curiosity, what color are yours?
The reason I ask is that I have two sets - one FDE, one FG. The FDEs lock up super tight on two different uppers but the FG set was loose on the same two uppers. No other changes - just swapping the MOEs back and forth.
After contacting Magpul they asked if I could send the FG set in for warranty replacement. The new ones should be here this week.
I asked Justin Beard if this could be a case of shrink rate difference between the colors (pigments can affect shrink), but he didn't think that was the case.
I expect the new set will be better - I really like the MOE profile!
I believe they are the DARK EARTH kind (formerly Coyote Tan?). I know there's a difference in the dark earths (FDE & DE) at least with the mags. THe DEs have the #9 on them, the FDE has the #10. Having said that, the factory built M&P15 MOE version I got all match the #9 Dark Earth color so that should make my MOE handguard the #9 Dark Earth color.
And the amount of slop I would say is about 1/4" spun left or right. Maybe the end cap is not compatible or fitted right to hold that thing still, I don't know.
Here it is in sunlight. When compared with the pmag #10 (FDE), mine is lighter, like the coyote tan color.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk103/lronchef/IMG_3723.jpg
Has anyone tried using the MOE handguard with a side sling mount?
I have that set up and would like to changeout the OE handguard.
Out of curiosity, what color are yours?
The reason I ask is that I have two sets - one FDE, one FG. The FDEs lock up super tight on two different uppers but the FG set was loose on the same two uppers. No other changes - just swapping the MOEs back and forth.
After contacting Magpul they asked if I could send the FG set in for warranty replacement. The new ones should be here this week.
I asked Justin Beard if this could be a case of shrink rate difference between the colors (pigments can affect shrink), but he didn't think that was the case.
I expect the new set will be better - I really like the MOE profile!
As I expected, the replacement FG set that arrived today mount up as tight as the FDE set - meaning no movement at all.
I believe they are the DARK EARTH kind (formerly Coyote Tan?). I know there's a difference in the dark earths (FDE & DE) at least with the mags. THe DEs have the #9 on them, the FDE has the #10. Having said that, the factory built M&P15 MOE version I got all match the #9 Dark Earth color so that should make my MOE handguard the #9 Dark Earth color.
And the amount of slop I would say is about 1/4" spun left or right. Maybe the end cap is not compatible or fitted right to hold that thing still, I don't know.
Here it is in sunlight. When compared with the pmag #10 (FDE), mine is lighter, like the coyote tan color.
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk103/lronchef/IMG_3723.jpg
1/4" rotation? Something is wrong there - the MOE HG has four lugs molded in at the rear (two on each half) that engage barrel nut teeth. Are those lugs missing or is your barrel nut damaged?
Has anyone tried using the MOE handguard with a side sling mount?
I have that set up and would like to changeout the OE handguard.
You're talking an M4-style side mount up in the FSB, right? It fits, but it fits better if you flip the sling mount around 180 degrees.
Has anyone tried using the MOE handguard with a side sling mount?
I have that set up and would like to changeout the OE handguard.
I have a USGI side sling mount. No interference with the installation.
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