View Full Version : Millet DMS-1 1-4x24 scope ?
Steel_Weasel
05-01-07, 10:30
Millet seems to have produced a 1-4x24 scope; the DMS-1. Anyone has and knowledge or feedback on this thing.
http://www.millettsights.com/index.php
I talked to a rep the other weekend at a gunshow. I was pretty impressed, especially at it's price. I'll most likely get one even if I don't end up using it.
I played with a 1st generation. The rep said that changes were already made to the ones that will be shipped.
It has a 30mm tube. Reticle is a cross hair with a circle and dot inside the circle. Illumination is washed out in full sun, however the reticle turns black, so that's good. The Illumination knob does not turn off between settings. Have to go all the way around to shut it off. The rep was asking for advice so I told him everyone would probably ask for that.
Looking forward to trying one out.
He also showed off a larger scope which looked pretty nice as well. I can't remember the magnification power though. This one had large turret knobs, and the reticle illuminated green, it was interesting.
Sorry I don't have more specific info on them.
Steel_Weasel
05-01-07, 12:36
I've just been comparing the DMS-1 to GRSC CRS and they appear to be the same scope; only the reticles are different....hmmm.
I guess I will soon see about this scope. According to Millett, mine shipped yesterday and I am only one state away from the R of C.
I've already ordered one. I figure for about $230 it's worth a try.
Where did you order from? Everywhere I looked folks had priced posted but were waiting for delivery. Prices went up a but due to some upgrades between the 1st "generation and newer model which has a spare battery storage area under one of the caps and I think he said a submersion rating. Millett advised me they had six after filling MIL test orders of the new model and I was on the waiting for awhile. $183 LEO price!
Please tell me where you placed an order.
I am itchin' to try it out as well.
I ordered mine from Impact guns but was told I had 4 a week back order. That was 2 weeks ago.
Just got mine and mounted it in a LT SPR 1.5 mount. Now I just need to get to a range and try 'er out.
Looks like an interesting scope. I look forward to seeing some reviews.
If the illuminated reticle is indeed visible in daylight then I may have to give one a try.
I got a shipping confirmation for mine this morning.
PowershipMC
05-10-07, 23:43
I have one coming from midway and should be here Sat or Mon. I would like to get a Larue SPR mount but not sure which one to get either the SPR or the EER. Any ideas which one will work?
Suggestions are that if you shoot with your nose to the charging handle, then the SPR-E is what you use. If not, then the SPR is fine.
fivepointoh
05-11-07, 15:10
Well it would be SPR-E for me then...as I shoot NTCH. I might try one after I get the GRSC optic in.
PowershipMC
05-11-07, 18:39
I was searching the web for some more detailed info on this scope and came across this site that has a very good review and nice pics of the GEN I version.
Gen 1 Millett DMS-1 Review (http://thevaultnation.com/page5.html)
More Pictures (http://thevaultnation.com/Pictures/DSM)
I shot mine today for the first time but not to the degree of the man in the previously listed review. I only zeroed it. But the glass is very clear in sunlight. My unit used Nightforces and every sniper that looked through it was impressed with the clarity. I ll check more as to the lower light situations with more time. Mine is the Gen II (unlike the one in the review). the Gen II has some improvements. The rheostat is on the left side, 90 degrees from the elevation turret. The windage turret cover is thicker due to the spare battery compartment inside (see belows problem). The Gen II is also supposed to be more weather or waterproofed but the specs are not released. Millett is supposed publish the operator's manual on their website soon. I do not know the spec's on the "donut" but on 4x the inner area of the donut (the band is rather thick) that looked to be 10 moa based on what saw on the grid target. It is the closest to "true" one power on any other variable I have seen.
When the turret covers are unscrewed, there is no slot for adjustments. The turret itself slightly protrudes and is serrated around it's circumference (like a dime) making it easy to make adjustments. It is 1/4 moa clicks.
I have read some complain about the reticle not having "off" mode between each setting. Frankly I prefer that. I have seen those get knocked a click either way when grinding against gear. that would turn it off instead of just lower or higher one setting.
True, the illumination of the reticle on its brightest setting was not visible in the bright sun but the reticle is solid and "deep" black and easily seen on dark targets so who cares. Our Nighforces can't be seen on high during sunlight either and they cost 1500.
I will play with it in the dark on our indoor range as well as in the shoot house when I have time. I mainly wanted it for 3 gun matches but it could make a nice patrol rifle scope, where even when used inside, those searches are not as dynamic as and HRT where at this point I would still prefer my Aimpoint. and I doubt that this scope would be user friendly in a APR (gas mask) or SCBA.
My only complaint thus far ( and reported to Millett already) is that when I put the windage turret cap back on and snugged it down, the rubber spare battery holder engaged on the dial and i could hear it make a few clicks, which changed my zero. So this cap needs to be a little bit taller to clear the interior.
In comparing it to the photos of the GRSC scope coming out, these two "look" the same from the outside.
Then there are those that have a lot to say about the scope being made in China. Well everything has parts from China in it (well almost). But to me there is a difference between a Chinese knockoff through a stolen design and a product made in China designed by and for an American company under their name.
There is a line to be drawn on scopes. Zeiss is now using the Pride Fowler reticle. I used a PF scope on my 308 and loved it. It was plenty enough scope and I see no reason to pay 3-4 times the amount for a Zeiss. But what you spend is relative to what you make. If you have thousands to spend on glass and you want to, then who am I to say anything about.
There were some pro shooters at Mystery Mountain 3 Gun match using 60 dollar Simmons diamond scopes on their three thousand dollar rifles too that praised the scope (BrianEnos.com has reviews) when I talked to them there a couple years ago.
the turret cover thing is a minor issue that will be taken care of. So far, my 190 dollars was well spent. That may change with time....but I doubt it.
PowershipMC
05-17-07, 09:37
Here are some pics I took today. My pics of the reticle do not do it justice, but the Glass is really clear.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/01.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/02.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/03.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/04.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/05.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/06.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/07.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/08.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/09.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/10.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/11.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/12.jpg
The windage adjustment cap has a place for a spare battery.
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/13.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/14.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/15.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/16.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/17.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Millett%20DMS-1/18.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Ron%20SBR/01.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd18/PowershipMC/Firearms%20Related/Ron%20SBR/02.jpg
Nice pics. Thanks for sharing.
The DMS-1 doesn't look bad at all. Thanks for the pics!
Man, for the money that thing looks like a super deal. If it will handle any type of abuse at all, I'd guess this thing will put a BIG dent in the market for "non-professional" end users. It certainly looks like it's built pretty solid.
As a "non-professional", I hope it turns out to be as good a deal as it appears to be at first glance!
I just got mine in tonight. I plan on testing it out this weekend. From what I can see now, it looks solid. The glass is also pretty clear. It is real close to a true 1X but there is a real slight magnification.
Here's a pic.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/USMC/Complete%203/Millett1-4xa.jpg
I have a few questions about the DMS-1 that Millett can not answer at this time. I called them and could not get any answers. If anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it. I would like to know the field of view, the circle size of the reticle and the estimated battery life. Thanks in advance.
;) Billy
Anyone else have any feedback from rangetime with this scope? It looks pretty good for the money, just curious for more end user feedback since they seem to have just recently came out with this scope.
Thanks
Grin Reaper
06-06-07, 01:05
While we're on the topic of Millet, anybody tried those Grabber rings of theirs? Impressions?
I have one on the way from Midway at $230 that should be here tomorrow.
I sold my Millet TPS-1 which is the 4-16x with green lit mil dot reticle and side parallax that was mentioned above.
I sold it for more than I paid so I'm happy.
I happened to use a LT 30mm for it and will now be using it for the DMS-1.
This won't be overkill on a BCM 11.5 will it? :D
My friend just bought his first AR, an M&P 15T, and because of this thread, he ordered the DMS from Midway last week. He's got it mounted on his carbine and will be sighting it in shortly. BTW, Midway had two when he ordered his, they're all gone.
And he got the truly Chinese style with gold lettering, didn't he?
Midway will have two more in stock soon.
Unless that is one of mine and my buddies he got. We sent two back.
Hello Gentlemen
Following the thread with interest, as I am the guy that designed the DMS.
As to the questions this wk the manual will be up on the Millett web site.
You will find two models in the field, gen 1 and Gen 2, the easy way to tell them is the Gen 1 has the illumination control on the top rear of the scope where as the 2 nd gen has the control on the left side of the turret. optics are the same.
We are getting the scopes in every wk but they are sold out just as fast as they get here. We will not increase production till we can keep the same level of quality. Each Millett scope is computer tested before shipment. The testing puts the scope under equal recoil of a 3006 machine gun. Order one and you will get it before too long.
Thanks for your interest and support
Steve
thanks. are you guys shipping only gen 2 now ? seems that you find more gen 1 than 2 in the online stores.
Each Millett scope is computer tested before shipment. The testing puts the scope under equal recoil of a 3006 machine gun.
I had heard this from the rep I originaly spoke to. I was hesitant to post it because I wasn't sure If I had remembered it correctly. Thanks.
Hello all
We are only shipping Gen 2 units of the DMS at this time. The shippments come in and are tested and shipped out to the dealers and Distributors as fast as they come in. We are currently back ordered for a least 1 month. but there will be a good number being shipped durning that month. By the end of July we hope to be caught up.
The DMS manual will be posted this wk on the Millett site.
Good shooting
Steve
Millett
Thanks Steve!
So is Midway lying when they say it's not NOS they are selling to us? I just wanted to know because they refused to refund shipping stating they can't help or be held accountable for changes to a product.
Our reasoning is that no, they can't be held for a sudden change and someone getting something new and cheaper but surely not something newer and more up to date.
Got mine in today, missed the Fed Ex man yesterday (signature required) but overall impressions are good. I ordered mine from Impact last week. I got a Generation 1 unit, which kind of sucks but then again, I haven't sighted it in yet or anything. Glass is very clear, not quite a true 1x but i don't think there is a true 1x available in any variable power scope. On 1x though, reticle is just as easy to pick up as my EOtech I had on my gun, maybe not quite but it seems just as fast. Eye relief is great, can't wait to put it in the SPR-E I ordered from Grant, currently just have it on a riser mounted on my rifle length quad rail just to check eye relief prior to ordering an SPR or SPR-E mount, definetly would need an SPR-E. I have a feeling this optic will take over the 3 gun market due to price and versatility. Only negative aspect is the weight, but compared to an EoTech, yeah, it's gonna be heavier, but I'll get used to it. Overall, very happy so far, just can't wait to get to the range to put it thru its paces and run some drills. Will follow up afterwards.
You don't have to have an -E model unless maybe mine is? I think it's a 104 but I may be wrong.
It's as close to 1x as you'll get if not actually 1x. It sure is marked as 1x on top with 1.5x quite a ways away...
Yeah, I just say not quite a true 1X due to when I flip my front sight up, it is slightly magnified and a little distorted due to being so close.
Yeah, I just say not quite a true 1X due to when I flip my front sight up, it is slightly magnified and a little distorted due to being so close.
At 1x, how much does the image appear to move around when the scope is moved? Wondering how usable it is two-eyes open at 1x.
Oh, it seems to be no problem at 1x with both eyes open. I took off my Eotech and put this on and had no problem with it once I got the eye relief set at the proper distance. Field of view is esentially the same but of course the Eotech is more forgiving with cheek weld and position of your head/eye (don't have to look thru a tube), however once you have the scope set up on your rifle to your eyerelief, etc, you shouldn't have an issue with both eyes open at 1x. After I got it on my gun, of course I had to play with it a little (with empty gun and bolt back of course) and set up from the low ready position like you have to start in some courses of fire in 3 gun/tactical rifle matches. I had no problem instantly throwing the circle/dot on my "intended targets" of do-dads on the mantle over the fireplace. I only say it's not a true 1x is due to when I flip up my front sight, it is definetly magnified ever so slightly and a little distorted to the point that I would not be able to effectivly use my BUIS unless I took the scope off. But with a Larue, I can pop it off pretty quick (at least I can with current and past Larue products), however I would not see a need to take it off unless it was damaged. Again, I got this for 3 gun/tactical rifle matches and this is not going on my SHTF gun. I guess I have that option since I own a "few" AR's but even if I only had one rifle, I would still probably have this scope on a quick release mount w/some flip up BUIS. For the money, I don't think you can beat it, and all I've done is play with it and mount it on an extra riser I had, haven't put the first round thru rifle since I got it, but for approx $230, it's worth every penny from what I can see so far, and I ended up with a Gen 1 version, not even the latest version. I could even see myself buying another one of these for my JLD-PTR 91 (G3 copy)
That's good to know. I looked at all the 1-4x type scopes I could find at SHOT and there was a lot of variabilty in what I'd call "image parallax" at 1x - the image moving around with slight reposition of the scope - to the degree that two eyes open move & shoot would be impossible with many.
Bulldog1967
06-15-07, 12:15
So which other retailers besides Midway has the gen. 2s in stock?
So which other retailers besides Midway has the gen. 2s in stock?
when i bought from Midway they DID NOT have the Gen 2, only Gen 1 (which got returned to them)
waiting on a pair of Gen 2's from another dealer now... :(
Midway does NOT have G2's in stock and don't bother unless you want to pay shipping to find out.
There's a thread on Tos about the scope. the first page has a link to a guy who has what looks to be some airsofter holding an M4 as the banner but the guy's LEO and sells them on a first come, first served basis and gets nothing but G2s anymore.
We are awaiting ours.
Nice scopes, nice reticles and the G2 is much improved looks-wise IMHO. That's to say the focus knob is not finely ribbed but has large teeth like the S&Bs and other high ends have.
But, if just the guts is what is important to you, order away.
I'm not happy with Midway's stance on our return but am happy with how they are dealing with a dead tumbler I ordered. Mixed feelings for sure...
I'm not happy with Midway's stance on our return but am happy with how they are dealing with a dead tumbler I ordered. Mixed feelings for sure...
How is midway dealing with your scope return?
midway is refusing to budge on refunding any shipping costs. despite the fact they usually mention when a scope / optic has changed production and will tell you you might get one or the other. that was not the case with this product listing so i am debating with them on the stance that NOT placing that statement on the listing would lead a buyer to assume they are getting new stock, not old stock...
Oh ok. I returned the scope (reached them thursday) and got back my refund on friday. Didn't bother to call or ask for the $10 shipping out of $240. Very pleased with the ease of return.
ya, my issue is i spend about $25 in combined shipping (from them and back to them) for something that should have been new stock, or at least listed correctly IMO.
Yeah, they are usually good about stating that a product may change and you may get newer stock but had no mention of it here. This led us to believe that it was probably so new that they knew it wouldn't change to anything newer and no need for a note.
make sense?
I've got a FA tumbler that crapped out. It was ordered with a bunch of stuff by another friend. to return the motor, they want it all- no exchange. I had to break the damn tumbler bowl to get the peg out that holds it above the bucket.
they are getting some dirty corn back but only a little. i'm not separating out my brass first to pay extra in shipping all that crap back in hopes that they will pay for ALL of the shipping.
Bulldog1967
06-16-07, 12:40
Just ordered one, can't wait to try it out.
The DMS 1-4 is a great value in the realm of 1-4 setups. I currently own a 1st gen mounted in a LT 104, it is a deal.
I have shot through several 1-/1-5 setups and have seen clearer glass, but you SHOULD see pristine images when you spend 700+ dollars on a scope. For the 200 some odd dollars I spent, I could not be happier.
If there is someone in the realm of SEVA (Hampton Roads), I will gladly let you demo this scope.
It's all your fault :p
I ordered from Impact Guns and also the mount from Larue. They only have Gen. 1, but I'm ok with that. Just got it mounted tonight, I'll zero it this Saturday with my friend and his identical set up. Here's a quick snap shot. I'm still waiting for a BUIS from MI.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/502726.jpg
I shot a 6 stage tactical rifle match today with mine (gen 1). I only got to sight the thing in this week and even then it wasn't dialed in to my satisfaction due to a freakin monsoon came down right when I got it on at 100yds. But after shooting it today, I am very well pleased and feel like I got my money's worth. I shot from ranges of 3yds to 275yds and the long range stage w/resetting steel mini poppers at 75yd, steel flaggers at 175 and a bonus 275 yd flagger (-10 seconds off your time if you hit it), I swept them all in the best time on my squad on that and most the other stages. On 1x, its easy to engage w/both eyes open (if you are used to shooting that way). I went from an EOtech on my "game gun" to this and couldn't feel happier, so the Eotech will go on a new/future build. Again, for the money, you just can't beat it. Too bad the mount cost almost as much as the scope (LT SPR-E) but still worth every penny after some real practical experience with it today. Drew alot of questions too and several folks asked to shoot it and soon after they shot it, where they can get one. I'm prob gonna get a Gen 2 model and put this one on my JLD PTR-91 to shoot the heavy Metal class in the future.
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb66/stik77/PICT0010.jpg
Just got a Gen 2 in the mail and it has an owners manual specific to this scope so I thought I'd post the dot sizes, etc..
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb66/stik77/PICT0003-2.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb66/stik77/PICT0002-2.jpg
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb66/stik77/PICT0001-2.jpg
PowershipMC
07-05-07, 23:25
Millett's website now has the manual posted.
Manual
http://www.millettsights.com//images/instruction_sheets/Millett_DMS_Manual.pdf
Butler Creek Scope Flip Cover Chart
http://www.millettsights.com//images/instruction_sheets/Butler_Creek.pdf
Does this scope have a black reticle in it when the battery is not turned on? Meaning can it be used durring the day time with the power off, or is it just like a red dot no power no reticle.
Does this scope have a black reticle in it when the battery is not turned on? Meaning can it be used durring the day time with the power off, or is it just like a red dot no power no reticle.
yup, its got a black reticle when ill is not on. used it that way most of the time last time at the range...
couple pics of a Gen 2 DMS mounted in a CAA mount. very cost effective, well finished, and places the scope farther forward than std rings. only thing i'd want different on it would be quick-disconnect.
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x10/DamnYank/firearms/100_0209.jpg
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x10/DamnYank/firearms/100_0222.jpg
Do you guys think this is as quick as a Eotech or Aimpoint?
Do you guys think this is as quick as a Eotech or Aimpoint?
Don't have eot so I don't know.
I do have an Aimpoint and the DMS. The DMS is not 1-1 as fast as the Aimpoint, but it's pretty close. I haven't used a timer with the DMS yet, but I think it's 80-90% as quick as the Aimpoint.
just got mine... very impressed by the scope especially considering the price.
I may have missed it but whats the eye relief with these? Also anyone tried a flash hider on one(not my question)?
Thanks
We've been testing the DMS-1 for a little while and are very impressed with it, especially for the price. (There are more than one of us; I'm not just typing in the 3rd person to be like Jeff Cooper ;) )
Anyway, on the 3 or 4 scopes I've had my hands on, I've noticed that the 1x isn't exactly 1x, but more like 0.95x. I have to bump the power ring up a touch from the bottom to get a true 1x. Once I do that the distortion around the edges gets a little better.
Fine scope. If I didn't already have a Leupy MR/T 1.5-5x I would pick one up for myself.
Bulldog1967
08-15-07, 12:15
Got mine last week. GREAT scope for the $$! I was going to put it on my LMT 16", but I went the TA33-R8 route with that one, so this one will be going on my new (to me) FAL.
:D
Don Robison
08-16-07, 13:41
I ordered one today direct from Millett. They have a military discount pricing of $183.09 plus shipping.
Their military pricing is good companies dont normally give military-LEO the deasler rate but something in between dealer and retail.
Don Robison
08-16-07, 17:41
Their military pricing is good companies dont normally give military-LEO the deasler rate but something in between dealer and retail.
Yes, but for me the gesture is welcomed, plus Betty was a real pleasure to deal with getting the order completed. When I emailed to ask the question I got one of the fastest responses I've had from a company and good, prompt service goes a long way with me.
Looks like LaRue will be getting more of my dollars as well so I can mount it.
Betty is a nice lady. Take alook at there Grabber rings. That Larue SPR mount is nice but alittle pricey.
Don Robison
08-17-07, 01:36
Betty is a nice lady. Take alook at there Grabber rings. That Larue SPR mount is nice but alittle pricey.
Thanks for the tip, I was looking in the wrong place on their site. I was thinking the same thing with the SPR mount; I think I'm turning into a LaRue junky.
Don Robison
08-27-07, 21:48
Mine showed up today. My initial impression is nice.
Plus the wife ordered the SPR mount for my birthday in a couple weeks:D
Betty Millett shipped me one and it arrived a couple of days ago. It is pretty sturdy. I think it will be very hard for me to keep both eyes open with it. The only hitch with my scope is that there was a small mark on one of the inner lens. Betty gave me the option of getting a new one or knocking off another 20% of what I paid. I ended up taking the 20% off. So all i all I almost got the scope for free as she was kind enough to give me distributor pricing instead of dealer plus 20% off plus a free set of their new Grabber rings to test out. I would rate Millet as one of the best when it comes to Customer Service. If only they could get their products made in the USA to go with their American Company slogan.
Just to let you all know Midway has them on sale for the month of September for $199.99.
I've been pretty happy with my 1st gen DMS-1. It's heavier than I'd like, but I only use it for gaming.
http://texbiker.com/pics/sdi14.jpg
You guys that have them are you able to use them with both eyes open?
You guys that have them are you able to use them with both eyes open?
At 1x, I can keep both eyes open but it's not a true 1x...probably closer to a 1.25x, IMO.
I played around with the diopeter and mine is pretty much 1x. The tube is so long I get tunnel vision with both eyes open lol.
I've been pretty happy with my 1st gen DMS-1. It's heavier than I'd like, but I only use it for gaming.
http://texbiker.com/pics/sdi14.jpg
Online Gaming?
Online Gaming?
Nah, I quit playing 3-gun online after I discovered my monitors were incompatible with bullets.
DRich is that the SPR or SPR-e mount?
DRich is that the SPR or SPR-e mount?
SPR - LT104
I heard the Larue mounts are alittle rough on the rails. Is this just cosmetic or do they chop the rails up? Any pics of where mouns were mounted on the rails would be great.
The Larue mounts do scratch the undersides of the rail edges, but nothing that concerns me. I swap between the LT-104 and an LT-110, so I never see scratches anyway.
Ok thanks, I dont care about cosmetics.
I have my Millet DMS mounted in a LaRue SPR 1.5 mount on my Bushmaster Varminter.
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/kamicosmos/gun%20stuff/DMS1.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/kamicosmos/gun%20stuff/DMS1a.jpg
Im trying to decide which SPR mount to get? I use to shoot NTCH before my accident now i shoot with the 6Pos in the middle of the RE. I asked the guy at Larue but he didnt understand what I was saying and kept telling me most are getting the SPR-E. I guess if its too far forward I could Just move the mount further back.
Im trying to decide which SPR mount to get? I use to shoot NTCH before my accident now i shoot with the 6Pos in the middle of the RE. I asked the guy at Larue but he didnt understand what I was saying and kept telling me most are getting the SPR-E. I guess if its too far forward I could Just move the mount further back.
Same problem that I had. I think the -E will move the scope 1.5 inches more forward, as best as I can tell. Obviously this is the mount you need if you shoot nose to charging handle.
Unfortunately, I seem to be right in the middle. I got an SPR. At first I thought I should've gotten the -E, but as I play with it more I just might just need to move the scope a little more forward in the mount.
I shoot in the next to the furthest back stock position, with a slightly forward head position.
You might need to get the scope first, and figure out where it needs to be before you order the mount.
BTW, Millett lists the eye relief as 3.5 inches.
I had similar concerns about getting the -E or not. As you can see in my second photo, the SPR mount (LT-104) puts the Objective right over the charging handle. I don't shoot nose-to-handle, but have my head back about 2 inches, so this works well for me.
Whereas, the -E will put the objective over the Brass Deflector. So, it would be better there for Nose to handle shooters, I think.
I have the scope and for me it needs every bit of the advertised eye relief. I guess I could buy either one and if it dosent work send it back for the other lol.
HEllo all
Just wanted to up date you all on the DMS SCOPES, we are getting them in as fast as possible but not able to keep up with demand. Sorry to say. We will not have any more of the 1st gen scopes so there will not be any more in the distributors shelves in the near future.
I would like to thank all of you for your support of the
DMS, I designed it to meet the needs of the shooter that demanded close to mid range accuracy and quick shooting at a resonable price.
Good shooting
Steve
This one looks good for the budget :)
Hello all,
My first post here after lurking for awhile and picking up great info. I recently purchased one these and I'm very pleased with it. I'don't have the budget that many do, so I
went this scope. I did of course have to pickup a Larue SPR mount (basically the same price as the scope) and a GG+G Mad BUIS w/tritium. I have laser boresighted the scope
at 120 yds, and hope to hit the range this weekend to shoot it. It is mounted on a RRA entry tactical purchased before I found this forum (soon to have receiver tube and bolt carrier properly staked). Cebuboy I think you
will be pleased with one. With the illumination set on 9 to 11 the red circle/dot
is visible in the BRIGHT South Florida summer sun, even though its not necessary since the black reticle is visible sans illumination. Fooling around with it in my backyard I found it easy to acquire targets close range with both eyes open at 1X.
Just my .02 cents
I can say that I got 3 - 4" groups at 100 yds on my 16" Bushmaster superlight barrel. Out two 200 yds. I can hit within a 12" circle, don't ask me to group it though. :)
I can say that I got 3 - 4" groups at 100 yds on my 16" Bushmaster superlight barrel. Out two 200 yds. I can hit within a 12" circle, don't ask me to group it though. :)
Sam, about how many rounds do you have through
that Bushy superlight. I ask because I also have one. Only about 600 rnds through mine, so far no problems.
Sam, about how many rounds do you have through
that Bushy superlight. I ask because I also have one. Only about 600 rnds through mine, so far no problems.
v:
Sorry for the delay, I just saw your question. I have over 2000 rounds through one barrel/upper combo and at least 600 through the other barrel/upper. I really like the lighter weight over the heavy barreled RRA that I use to have. The problem with barrel weight is all the added accessories. A heavy barrel alone with standard M4 handguard is not bad at all. But add a scope, vertical grip and weapon light and you start to notice the extra weight. A pencil thin barrel helps a lot.
How would this Millet do on a 9mm or .40S&W midlength?
I like the fact that you still have a reticle when the power is turned off or you loose battery power.
EricCartmann
01-13-08, 18:33
I have mixed feelings about the Millet now. I guess so far so good but I am kinda dissapointed in my 2nd Millet that just arrived home last week. It is not as nice as my first one.
I liked my first Millet so much that I bought another one. My first one had the "fungus" problem, but for me the problem was minor and overall I was very happy with it. Glass is very crisp and clear. The fungus problem was only noticable at night when illumination was set on the highest.
My first DMS1, on FAL:
Got the Fungus problem, but only when illumination is on #10 and #11 and at night. The fungus problem totally disappears on #9. Looking down the hill at the lights of the street lamp in the dark everything is crisp and clear. Just as clear as my $1100 Leupold, and the clarity is only a hair below my ACOG in quality. This particuliar Millet seems excellent at gathering light. This one came with the bungie type scope caps, a spare battery and a scope cover (like a scope coat). The fungus problem does not bug me at all, as like I said earlier, I only notice it on #10 and at night. So far I have shot 2 battle packs of SA (280 rounds) in the FAL and scope is holding zero just fine.
My 2nd DMS1 on XCR:
No fungus problem whatsoever. This one came with flip-up caps in addition to the scope cover and the spare battery. But this one is not that crisp and does not seem to gather as much light as the DMS on my FAL. In the daylight it is not a big deal, and you barely can tell a difference between the 2. But when viewing at night is when you notice the difference in clarity and light gathering ability right away, as things seems so much brighter with my FAL Millet.
If I did not have 2 to compare side by side then I would have not known about the difference in clarity. I guess it's just luck of the draw if you get one with no fungus and super clear glass. Me I will take the clear glass over the fungus issue, especially in my case where the fungus is only visable at night when illumination is set at the highest setting.
http://images31.fotki.com/v1100/photos/9/932051/4850997/falxcrdms-vi.jpg
My first DMS1, on FAL:
what rings are you using and on what mount? Looks like the DSA extended mount since it appears you have a continuous rail. Do you have any closer pics of the mount itself on the upper, or an opinion on how the mount would fit/function on a FAL with normal handguards and no carry handle?
i'm trying to decide which mount to go with and i'm stuck between the normal length and extended
Here's my take on the DMS. The first one was from a local dealer who sells a lot of Millett. it was labeled 'blem' and I was told that it was a cosmetic issue only. And I did not see any problems inside the tube just a couple of scratches on the outside. I zero'd it on my M14s, where it shot very well, took it to the Pueblo Carbine match where it promptly lost zero.
Sent it back. After about 3 weeks I get an email stating 'nothing wrong was found, but we're sending another one anyhow'. Err. Ok. So I get 2nd one back. Mounted it up and set it aside. After about a week or so, I went to pack it up to take to the range and as I was clearing it/checking out, I noticed that the reticle seemed canted to the left about 15°. So I disassembled the rings (Burris Tactical) and noticed that the whole focus/reticle assembly was loose and flopping around. So back it went, AGAIN. After another 3 weeks or so, I got the replacement in and sold it, NIB on AR15.
Take from that what you will, but my experience is not what I'd call wholly pleasant.
My windage turret just died. It lasted 200 rounds RIP.
Well called Millett today about a LEO discount, They are $201 Plus shipping But on Back order......, SWFA has them in stock no LEO discount, price is $199 but I will have to pay sales Tax( Texas Res) Plus shipping comes out to be about $230.
Anyone have a line on any better prices?
I am going to get a LT mount for my new LMT upper.
Thanks
Dave
Your not going to find them for less as 199.00 is close to dealer cost.
dodgeboy01
02-21-08, 00:34
Just ordered my DMS from impact guns. Don't know when I will get it, but anxiously await. Not sure on what Larue mount to get for it. Leaning on QD LT-104.
Just ordered my DMS from impact guns. Don't know when I will get it, but anxiously await. Not sure on what Larue mount to get for it. Leaning on QD LT-104.
LT104 is the one. Order now.
Ned Christiansen
02-21-08, 22:10
I had occasion to be at the Millet booth at SHOT, as I was specifically looking for red-dot sights with magnification just to stay up on what's out there for some of the guys. We're very much on the lookout these days for a sight or sight/gadget combo that gives a fast red dot and some magnification capability. I had misunderstood about the Millet Zoom-Dot (did I get that right?), it is the dot that gets larger or smaller, there is no zooming of magnification. While I was there I noticed the 1-4X24. I had just looked at Nightforce's similar unit. I have a Nightforce full-sized rifle scope for testing and what a stupendous piece of glass it is, as is their 1-4X24, but it really is a "telescopic sight with 1-4 variable power and illuminated reticule" and not a "red dot sight that can be zoomed to 4X". The Millet's illumination seemed to go to bright enough level that I'd say it went beyond illuminated reticule status into red-dot status. Checked out one of their larger scopes too and dang if it wasn't nice. Millet's image went up a couple notches in my book, provisionally at least. It also didn't hurt to see none other than Major John Plaster at the Millet both. He is consulting with them on certain things and was selling autographed copies of his latest book. I talked him into coming over the the LTW booth to be the "celebrity hand" to pick the winning number of our raffle for americansnipers.org (we took in $36,020 for them!).
Failure2Stop
02-22-08, 09:52
So are these holding up or not? I see that Shihan's broke after 200 rounds, which is not terribly awe-inspiring.
I like the idea of a $200 game optic, but not if I am going to have to buy one every 7th magazine. I understand the whole, "Ya gets what ya pays fer" concept, but for a couple of hundred bucks you should see at least a few years of use if not abused.
So are these holding up or not. I see that Shihan's broke after 200 rounds, which is not terribly awe-inspiring.
I like the idea of a $200 game optic, but not if I am going to have to buy one every 7th magazine. I understand the whole, "Ya gets what ya pays fer" concept, but for a couple of hundred bucks you should see at least a few years of use if not abused.
From what I hear they have been holding up(besides mine) and the only really problem is some smudged lenses. Even with my broken knob it held zero. I also gave it a water test and it stayed dry inside and beat it against a thin mat which lies over concrete in my dojo and isnt for falling but to keep the ground from jarring your joints when you workout and after 25 hits it held zero. I figured what the hell the knob was broke anyhow. So I have alot more confidence in the optic than before.
Failure2Stop
02-23-08, 13:57
Well, I just threw down my $$ for one and an LT SPR for about the same price. ETA- Shipping in 2-3 weeks.
I intend on using this on a game/SPR rig. I have no illusion of this being an S&B replacement, simply a variable power game/hobby optic.
I am also trying it to determine if I want to pony up the $$$ for a Short-Dot for work, that is, if the variable concept works better than an Aimpoint/3x for me or not.
I won't be able to do too much with it until the middle of next month, but I will report back when I can.
Shihan- Are you going to return the optic or have you disregarded it for your use?
From what I hear they have been holding up(besides mine) and the only really problem is some smudged lenses. Even with my broken knob it held zero. I also gave it a water test and it stayed dry inside and beat it against a thin mat which lies over concrete in my dojo and isnt for falling but to keep the ground from jarring your joints when you workout and after 25 hits it held zero. I figured what the hell the knob was broke anyhow. So I have alot more confidence in the optic than before.
It's not a smudge it's fungus growing inside.
And they also had a reported canting issue too.
Well, I just threw down my $$ for one and an LT SPR for about the same price.
I intend on using this on a game/SPR rig. I have no illusion of this being an S&B replacement, simply a variable power game/hobby optic.
I am also trying it to determine if I want to pony up the $$$ for a Short-Dot for work, that is, if the variable concept works better than an Aimpoint/3x for me or not.
I won't be able to do too much with it until the middle of next month, but I will report back when I can.
Shihan- Are you going to return the optic or have you disregarded it for your use?
I got a replacement from Millett and they let me keep the old one to beat up on. Im a Millaett dealer and have sold a bunch of these and mine is the only one that has had issues.
It's not a smudge it's fungus growing inside.
And they also had a reported canting issue too.
I read on TOS that it was a fungus but who really knows what it is? I dont think anyone took one apart.
Thank you all who were the guinea pigs for the Millet DMS. I have been contemplating one for quite some time - especially now with the AR-15 M4 build I'm doing. I will be swapping out the Trijicon Tripower on my SOCOM-16 onto the AR and was looking at the Millet coupled with a LaRue for the SOCOM/Troy MCS. The reviews have been very helpful I'm hoping Millet worked out the fungus issue, though it is something that is correctable by the user in lieu of replacement. I have had fungus appear on $3,000.00 Nikon lenses - so it does happen.
dodgeboy01
03-04-08, 10:40
Just got a shipment notice from impact guns. DMS is on the way:D . Now i've got to get a hold of Larue for my mount.
Well got my DMS in today and Very happy with it. Heading to range tommorow to try it out. Just put in a CAA for now($25) till I save up for a LaRue Mount.
Will hopefully be getting one next month. Thanks for everyones input.
Thanks
Dave
NCPatrolAR
03-11-08, 03:44
How did the scope do during your initial range session with it?
dodgeboy01
03-22-08, 00:48
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/d0dg301/100_1760-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v321/d0dg301/100_1759-1.jpg
I picked up a DMS-1 Marked as a "blem" for 178.00 but for the life of me can't find anything wrong with the scope. After three range sessions now it still shoots great. The most I have stretched it out is a 100 meters but thats all I really need from this scope. I ran it through a few close quarters drills and it held up fine. It has clear optics and I found target aquisition to be quick. The only drawback is if you put it in the gunsafe and forget to turn the Illum retical off it goes dead, must be a design flaw:D For me overall it is a great scope for the money !
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e340/bigsarg99/SA400062.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e340/bigsarg99/SA400073.jpg
Midway USA has the DMS1 on sale now in there april sales flyer ans on there web site for, $219. Hope this helps. As for mine I really like it. holds zero and is very clear. I shoot from 25 to 250 yards with no problem. I am still saving my pennies for a LT104*
Dave
CarlosDJackal
03-27-08, 12:31
Has anyone noticed any POI shift with these scopes between power adjustments.
Has anyone noticed any POI shift with these scopes between power adjustments.
Slight from 1X to 4X I dont use the inbetweens.
I got my Millett DMS-1 got it mounted and zeroed it at 50 yards. It works great! I ran some loose shooting scenarios from zero to 100 yards and it worked without a hitch. From what I gather, this scope is set up more for engaging larger size targets, like silhouettes, faster than most other scopes. Sure, you can get pretty accurate at shooting metal plates with it but my interest is in shooting at silhouettes any way and it is quick with that donut. This is a darned good scope system for LEO purposes and unlike an EOTech it is a variable power red dot system or donut in the this case. That means that you can go from 1X to 4X and still have your red donut to use without needing a magnifier of any sort. According to the Millett brochure, once you have your scope set you can engage targets from 3 to 400 yards so this scope will probably meet the needs of about 99% of all shooters. My Millett is mounted on top of a Superior Arms S-15 carbine with a single point sling system on it. At close range, you can use the Millett like a red dot with both eyes open with no problems and that does work. I tried it. I got my Millett from SWFA Optics for a little under $215.00 and used a tactical mount ring mount like the Millett Tactical Ring. At this time I give my Millett a smiley rating of :D :D :D :D out of 5. If it lasts a long time, then I'll give it 5 out of 5.
Failure2Stop
04-07-08, 18:22
Just got mine in. Mounted in a LaRue extended eye relief QD mount.
Initial assessment- favorable.
Reticle seems good, but not overly bright.
Only handled in overcast conditions. Big circle stands out well on light background, illumination stands out on dark background.
Won't be able to run it until next week. Will report.
OK - Got mine as well, from Midway.
Now Larue LT-104, LT-139, LT-158, or LT135?
CHOICES - looking for feedback on what is working and which would work better.
OK - Got mine as well, from Midway.
Now Larue LT-104, LT-139, LT-158, or LT135?
CHOICES - looking for feedback on what is working and which would work better.
I like them in the ADM Recon-X.
midway usa has it in stock if anyone cares...
just place an order for mine..
Hey Millet owners:
What success are you having with targets out to about 500-600 yards?
I like to shoot steel targets ranging from 400 to 650 yards.
I have an old Colt 4x scope mounted on top of a carry handle and can hit gongs, and pig size targets at 500 yards pretty regularly, a bit tougher at 600 yards, do the deer size targets at that range become my choice.
Has anyone shot such targets at these long distances with the Millet DMS?
Does the dot prohibit these type of shots at these distances?
I'm trying to decide on a new scope. I like the crosshairs on the Trijicon TAO1NSN - but I wear prescription eyeglasses, and given the short eye relief on those Trijicons that scope is too close to my eyeglasses - about 5/8 I'd guess, and don;t want to be scratching up eyeglasses.
Thanks
Marty
Just got mine in. Mounted in a LaRue extended eye relief QD mount.
Initial assessment- favorable.
Reticle seems good, but not overly bright.
Only handled in overcast conditions. Big circle stands out well on light background, illumination stands out on dark background.
Won't be able to run it until next week. Will report.
Have you had a chance to run it F2S?
I'm considering picking one up soon...
2 buddies of mine just had their Millet 4-16x (or maybe 4-12X) scopes shit the bed on them....so I'm a little weary, but I have heard mostly good things on Millet, as a whole.
Any feedback on how they're holding up would be much appreciated.
If you can, save for a TA33-8. I had a DMS but it just doesn't compar but I would guess you know that.
3X isn't any noticeably less than a 4x. The DMS is too big and bulky on an SBR.
Nowhere near as clear...
Failure2Stop
05-18-08, 10:45
CoolBreeze-
I picked it up as a low cost test item before dumping a bunch of money into a Short Dot. I figured that if I never really turned the magnification down, I would probably be better off going with the TA33-8R, as SuicideHz recommends.
I have not had the opportunity to wring it out, but my initial impressions (under 500 rounds) are as follows:
It is a big optic
Decent light transmission/clarity
The circle/dot has some "flash" in the pattern at higer magnification
The adjustment dials do not provide distinct tactile clicks
I like the reticle, though the point is moot as it is a temporary optic
It's OK on a carbine to rifle, but the balance is not right for anything under a 14.5 barrel.
Thought I had an issue with a drifting zero, but it turns out I switched ammo in the middle of shooting without realizing it.
I did not see a zero shift when changing magnification, but I was only shooting at 50 yds.
There is a bit of peripheral distortion when at 1X, but it did not bother me.
The stock lens covers are barely functional
The unit arrived nowhere near correctly focused
Eye relief is generous
Any other things are simply inherant issues to variable low-power optics without an internal BDC or readily dialed corrections.
All in all, it's a pretty decent value (unless it breaks) and I do not necessarily regret the purchase. Regardless of how my personal assessment of the optic goes, it will be replaced (I do not consider it to be a contender with the "real" variable optics), and if it holds up, it will probably find it's way onto a .22 or such.
AR15AK47USER
05-24-08, 03:55
Picked up mine yesterday, Gen II model. Local shop had 2 in stock for $229 each. Put it in fixed tactical rings on my S&W M&P 15T. So far so good. Had to mount it way up front so it would clear my BUIS. I really like the reticle although mine might be canted a few degrees to the left. Really nice eye relief and I like the reticle. Now I need to go and zero it when the weather clears a bit.
Got mine last week from Big River Tactical for $219+ shipping. Oddly enough I went ahead and purchased flip caps for both ends and when I opened my box it already came with flip caps..BONUS!!:D Overall, I like the looks. In comparison to the pictures I saw on this thread I had to mount mine further back over the BUIS than most people. I will be testing it next week and see how it turns out. Oh, mine is mounted on GG&G med rings on YHM riser.
Gentelmen,
My first post :D ! I have read the entire thread and was nearly convinced to purchase the Millett DMS until I came across the Nikko Stirling.
This is the Midway link to it: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=350378
This is the Nikko link .... you'll have to click on the models to the right side of page to bring up a pic of the 1-4x version: http://www.nikkostirling.com/Content/Diamond/30mmseries.htm
I like the reticle way more than the DMS reticle. Judging by the comments so far in this thread and the sticky on 1-4x scopes that I browsed through I haven't run across anyone who knows first hand what this scope s like. Just the same your thoughts are appreciated!
Thanks.
A one time bump to see if it will generate any comments on my post immediately proceeding this one.
Gentelmen,
My first post :D ! I have read the entire thread and was nearly convinced to purchase the Millett DMS until I came across the Nikko Stirling.
This is the Midway link to it: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=350378
This is the Nikko link .... you'll have to click on the models to the right side of page to bring up a pic of the 1-4x version: http://www.nikkostirling.com/Content/Diamond/30mmseries.htm
I like the reticle way more than the DMS reticle. Judging by the comments so far in this thread and the sticky on 1-4x scopes that I browsed through I haven't run across anyone who knows first hand what this scope s like. Just the same your thoughts are appreciated!
Thanks.
Buy one and let us know how it works out.
There is your immediate response. ;)
usmcchet9296
06-02-08, 19:31
My Millet is great and while I wouldnt want to depend on it in combat i suits me fine till I can afford a more high-end 1x4 scope
if you are on a buget and want a scope for a non-snipe/target/match AR than the millet is the way to go
Failure2Stop
06-05-08, 10:01
Gentelmen,
My first post :D ! I have read the entire thread and was nearly convinced to purchase the Millett DMS until I came across the Nikko Stirling.
This is the Midway link to it: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=350378
This is the Nikko link .... you'll have to click on the models to the right side of page to bring up a pic of the 1-4x version: http://www.nikkostirling.com/Content/Diamond/30mmseries.htm
I like the reticle way more than the DMS reticle. Judging by the comments so far in this thread and the sticky on 1-4x scopes that I browsed through I haven't run across anyone who knows first hand what this scope s like. Just the same your thoughts are appreciated!
Thanks.
Editing my response as I think that the information on the link is incorrect-
The link directly to Nikko Stirling lists the eye-relief as 3 mm, but that seems like an error in translation, as 3 mm is stupid short.
I have had mine for a few months now. Mounted in a LaRue SPR-E mount.
I have nothing but positive things to say thus far about the scope.
Disclaimer:
I am not using my rifle for competition at this time. I do plan to attend a match on 7/4 and will use this setup for the first time.
I have only used it at the range and a few trips into the desert.
usmcchet9296
06-05-08, 20:43
Millet is probably the best budget scope out there
Dualspringfields
07-05-08, 15:07
Question. Does the fixed front sight get in the way at all????????????? I just noticed that in most of the pics the weapons have fold down front sights.
Thanks Casey
AR15AK47USER
07-05-08, 15:34
The way it is set up the front sight is not visible/discernable if I use the scope. It is a focus effect. I need to remove the scope to be able to use my BUIS, if the scope is in place I don't even see the front. A quick release/attach mount is the way to go with this set up.
Dualspringfields
07-05-08, 15:43
Thanks thats what I was wanting to know. Been thinking about what type of optic and which one that I wanted to put on my AR. I have looked through a eo and didnt really care for it. Was thinking about a Aim Point but Id like to have some mag. in it. So that would mean I would need to get the mag. unit for the Aim Point. I think this sight would fit my bill. Id like to have an IOR but man they are high. I have an IOR on my .308 and the glass is killer but so is the price tag on it.
Which mount??????
Thanks Casey
AR15AK47USER
07-05-08, 23:45
I just used a set of mid height tactical rings. I am probably going to get a QD mount of some sort in the future, but not in the budget due to some unexpected expenses.
I had my first Gen 2 version for 3 months in which it saw the range 3 times on my AR15 (223) with less than 500 rounds. During cleaning, noticed black specs in the FOV. Further investigation, verified the black specs were located inside the internal lens group. Contacted Millet of my problem and was instructed to return the unit. Within 7 days, I received a new unit with no hassles or questions. For the price, it is a great scope for a hobbyist level. For the TRS-1 model, I had no issues with it at all on my 308 which I would use it for more than just range use. Don't know why the DMS model has these issues and not their other scope lines.
Battl3fr0nt
07-06-08, 08:46
well I am pretty impressed.. for the price and everyone seems to like theres.. I would say it is a much better deal then the short dot.. you get the same for 10x less.. I know the shortdot could prolly take more abuse but other then that I would go for this.. its on sale for $199.00 on midway.. Im just looking for other optic options for my next rifle.. Im pretty sure it will be another ACOG or the EOtech 557 mil dot and flip 4x im not really into scopes due to the fact they are slow.. After using my ACOG for so long now, I dont think I can go back to the conventional type optics unless I will just be bench shooting or other forums of slow type shooting.. I will have to take a look at this when my local dealer gets it in.. It would be somthing I would put on a AR-10 or maby 6.5, But im pretty sure they will be coming out with a ACOG for the 6.5 due to the military adopiting it soon.. I know the 6.8 is good an all but only for CQB the 6.5 is good close and out to 1200M so you really cant go wrong and if are ways of fighting change we would be stuck with a bullet that cant get us past 400.. and with more and more Military going with ACOG's and Power optics I really dont think they would do somthing that stupid.. I mean if anything stick with the 5.56 and go to a 52gr speer for CQB.. but I feel the 62gr has the stopping power for close range and it will get them out to 500M with the M4.. so.. yeah that was my little rant.. anyway very nice optic for the price..
davemcdonald
07-06-08, 09:46
I would say it is a much better deal then the short dot.. you get the same for 10x less..
It would be somthing I would put on a AR-10 or maby 6.5, But im pretty sure they will be coming out with a ACOG for the 6.5 due to the military adopiting it soon..
and I would have to disagree with you about being the same and I'm sure so would every other person that has ever owned a ShortDot
Do you have any facts or contract information that you could share with us that proves this or is this just an assumption on your part? M4 Carbine can be a rough crowd when dealing with assumptions that aren't stated as such.
Dave
If your looking at the 6.5 Grendel for 1200 meters, you better get the 28" barrel.
Dualspringfields
07-06-08, 20:40
Which mount???????????
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=30 LT-104
or
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=40 SPR-E LT-139
or
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=67
Will have my ARMS #40 rear sight attached.
Thanks Casey
Bulldog1967
07-06-08, 22:01
The SPR-E is the one you want.
Battl3fr0nt
07-07-08, 01:00
If your looking at the 6.5 Grendel for 1200 meters, you better get the 28" barrel.
You dont need a 28 inch barrel.. a 20" barrel with do just fine.. I mean a 223. will get out to 1000m with a 20".. and so will the 6.5 but if you know you are going to be shooting them ranges a 24" would be a better pick.. The military is gonna go with the 6.8 over the 6.5 for sure due to cost and the 6.8 is really more of a short range round and that is what they need right now, its just the 6.5 is a better overall round..
Battl3fr0nt
07-07-08, 01:04
and I would have to disagree with you about being the same and I'm sure so would every other person that has ever owned a ShortDot
Do you have any facts or contract information that you could share with us that proves this or is this just an assumption on your part? M4 Carbine can be a rough crowd when dealing with assumptions that aren't stated as such.
Dave
naw its just true.. I mean the short dot will take alot more and that is a fact but for a bench rifle it does not matter.. most short dots are put on bench rifles anyway.. if you where going to use it as a combat optic.. well it would not be a good idea but the short dot would stand up to it alot better then the Millet..
Battl3fr0nt
07-07-08, 08:08
Well I am not going to buy one right now due to the ammo cost.. but I know it will be the first AR I buy if I want somthing for long range.. It shoots much better then a 308 and with half the kick.. shooting the 308 is not to bad at all but still I would rather go with somthing that is a much better round and has less kick.. that would be the 6.5
well I am pretty impressed.. for the price and everyone seems to like theres.. I would say it is a much better deal then the short dot.. you get the same for 10x less.. I know the shortdot could prolly take more abuse but other then that I would go for this.. its on sale for $199.00 on midway.. Im just looking for other optic options for my next rifle.. Im pretty sure it will be another ACOG or the EOtech 557 mil dot and flip 4x im not really into scopes due to the fact they are slow.. After using my ACOG for so long now, I dont think I can go back to the conventional type optics unless I will just be bench shooting or other forums of slow type shooting.. I will have to take a look at this when my local dealer gets it in.. It would be somthing I would put on a AR-10 or maby 6.5, But im pretty sure they will be coming out with a ACOG for the 6.5 due to the military adopiting it soon.. I know the 6.8 is good an all but only for CQB the 6.5 is good close and out to 1200M so you really cant go wrong and if are ways of fighting change we would be stuck with a bullet that cant get us past 400.. and with more and more Military going with ACOG's and Power optics I really dont think they would do somthing that stupid.. I mean if anything stick with the 5.56 and go to a 52gr speer for CQB.. but I feel the 62gr has the stopping power for close range and it will get them out to 500M with the M4.. so.. yeah that was my little rant.. anyway very nice optic for the price..
naw its just true.. I mean the short dot will take alot more and that is a fact but for a bench rifle it does not matter.. most short dots are put on bench rifles anyway.. if you where going to use it as a combat optic.. well it would not be a good idea but the short dot would stand up to it alot better then the Millet..
I'm sorry, but I strongly disagree. Speaking from first-hand experience, there is absolutely no comparison between the DMS and the Short Dot - you don't get the same with both. The DMS is OK for it's price point, but the differences are immense. I've never seen a Short Dot on a bench rifle and there might be some out there, but I've seen many on combat weapons that go into harms way and every trigger puller bets their life on the SD everyday. I can't say the same about a DMS and neither do those I know that own and use an SD daily. Durability, clarity, features - there's just no comparison. You get what you pay for. Ask LAV which he'd take back into battle.
Failure2Stop
07-08-08, 16:29
well I am pretty impressed.. for the price and everyone seems to like theres.. I would say it is a much better deal then the short dot.. you get the same for 10x less..
I strongly disagree with this. Shoot one of them in different conditions and then switch to the other. They are significantly different. I have a DMS, and have experience on an SD. While there is some comparison (they are both variable optics in the 1-4 category) there are things about the SD that are simply absent in the DMS. The DMS is probably fine for the occasional user/hobbyist, but is not in the same league as the SD. If you don't want to shell out the clams, fine, but there is a very good reason that the SD costs what it does.
...But im pretty sure they will be coming out with a ACOG for the 6.5 due to the military adopiting it soon..
Your source on this information is highly suspect.
.. but I feel the 62gr has the stopping power for close range and it will get them out to 500M with the M4...
Feelings are generally unconnected with fact, especially in this instance. The FACT of the matter is that NO 5.56 bullets are reliable fight-stoppers past 300m. Really, nothing short of a .50 RAUFOSS is a certain stopper. Target shooting to 500 is one thing, fighting at 500 is very different.
Well I am not going to buy one right now due to the ammo cost.. but I know it will be the first AR I buy if I want somthing for long range.. It shoots much better then a 308 and with half the kick.. shooting the 308 is not to bad at all but still I would rather go with somthing that is a much better round and has less kick.. that would be the 6.5
:confused:
MUCH better = .338 . Whole lotsa reasons. Reduced recoil, while a nice thing to learn on, is not a good reason to choose a long range cartridge.
Moving on-
Apologies for the tangent. There is just too much anecdotal content to pass-up here.
We cant seem to get Larue SPR mounts up here in Canada. Anyone have experience with the ADM AD-Recon mount forthe DMS?
http://armseast.com/store/images/AD-RECON.jpg
We cant seem to get Larue SPR mounts up here in Canada. Anyone have experience with the ADM AD-Recon mount forthe DMS?
I've been running that mount on one of my 3Guns for about a year.
Solid as a Rock and its seen a couple of different scopes. I have the DMS mounted with it right now and have had no problems with either after a couple of thousand rounds and some knocking around during matches.
Getting back on topic - - - the DMS might be the best value for the dollar in a scope that I have spent in over 30+ years of military & civilian shooting.
JMHO & YMMV. ;)
We cant seem to get Larue SPR mounts up here in Canada. Anyone have experience with the ADM AD-Recon mount forthe DMS?
http://armseast.com/store/images/AD-RECON.jpg
Is there a cheaper alternative to this mount or any of the La Rue mounts? I'm looking for a mount thats around the $100 range. I don't want to put another $200 into a mount when with the price of the scope I would be almost half way to buying a ACOG.
Is there a cheaper alternative to this mount or any of the La Rue mounts? I'm looking for a mount thats around the $100 range. I don't want to put another $200 into a mount when with the price of the scope I would be almost half way to buying a ACOG.
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SSALT-30mm-1-Scope-Mount-P41855.aspx
It's not a quick detach but I think it has merit. Even though it has SWFA markings, it looks like it's made by Burris. There is an almost identical mount at Burris's site, the only difference is the extra picatinny rail on top of the rings on the Burris labeled mount.
I use Burris rings and mounts on my .308 and they're built like tanks.
Take a look at the Burris P.E.P.R. mount for a 1-4 for under $100.00
Anybody willing to offer a few words re: long term use of a 2008/9 model?
Also, it seems this would be a good candidate for an SPR-E, no?
What is different about the 2007-8 model?
I read something about Gen 1 and Gen 2...just curious about how the later ones have been holding up beyond initial reports.
is anyone running one of the DMS-1s with a matech back up sight? and if anyone is can you post the mount and maybe a picture if available. thanks
Just finished reading this thread wooo lot of information. Still trying to decide between the DMS and the Burris XTR14, but money is definitely a factor.
I called millett yesterday, and it seems that bushnell has bought them out.
Do any of you think the quality/warranty issues will be a factor with the buy out?
I know this is an old thread but information is timeless right?
Thanks
I hear nothing but praise for Bushnell's similarly priced 3200 models, so I'd bet the quality will continue as before.
Based on this thread and the reviews at midway.com, I bought a DMS 1-4 for my Sig556. I'll post a review when I get it.
Do any of you think the quality/warranty issues will be a factor with the buy out?
Bushnell will honor the warranty of the Millet but the customer service is horrible. The Millet DMS I sent in got lost at the repair facility and it took ump-teen number of calls to get it squared away with them replacing the lost item. I can't rag on them for losing it, they made it right in the end, it's the fact that they couldn't follow through with the process without having their hand held...Just my .02...
This scope seems like a good fit for a hunting 6.8 upper. How do you owners feel they would hold up in a hunting role? The gun will be zeroed with 5-10 rounds a year and only shot 1-2 while hunting. So how do you think it would hold up to less than a box of ammo per year and minimal turret adjustments?
I picked a Millet DMS/Burris PEPR combo at SWFA for $265.00. After trying to save for a higher end optic combo for a year, I finally came to the realization that my status in the financial world and focusing priorities on things like food, just would not allow it. I set my expectations low and have to say that I'm very pleased with this set-up.
I'll do a more extensive review later, but for now, here's my initial impressions:
The scope and mount are robust. I haven't done an official weight, but if everything fails, you can beat someone to death with this unit. I unpacked the scope and mount at work and had to wait until I got home to mount it. I laser bore-sighted it with a flashlight and a tree-trunk at 1am and took it to the range in the pouring rain the next day.
I must have been blessed by the laser-gods, as the scope was 1 click off up and right at 50-yards. From the bench, my groups were tight like prom night and off the bench not much changed. There is some fisheye at 100-yards and on 1x, but less so when you dial up to 1.5 and up. I left it set at 1.5 for most of a class 3-days later, (also in the pouring rain). My failure to properly LocTite the PEPR was my only hang-up that day. After a self-inflicted dope slap, I tightened up the mount properly and pressed on. I was not disappointed.
The donut-dot reticle is easy to pick up and bright - except in bright light. However, the reticle itself is easy to pic up with no illumination - the 1 MOA center dot is great for more precise shooting and the donut covers well for center-mass at longer ranges. I have not wrung this scope out past 200-yards, but between 5-feet and 200-yards, the scope performs well.
The Burris PEPR mount seems to be pretty well thought out. It's also large and heavy like the scope and I'm not sure I'll ever use the rails on the rings, (you never know I guess), but it locks up solidly, (if you do your part) and holds zero.
Laying in some tall grass on the range, shooting at 50-yards in the rain with my pack as a rest, I was pretty pleased with accuracy. I took 5-shots at a quarter, hit it once, dinged it twice and had two-flyers about 3/4 inch north and south. I'm not a bench shooter, so I don't plan on winning any matches with this scope. What I do plan on is beating the snot out of it and will report how this scope hold up. If folks are looking for a magnified, illuminated optic and are on a budget, this may indeed be an option.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5332&stc=1&d=1277298935
Looks like a decent budget scope.
Ned Christiansen
07-17-10, 22:44
Mine, I've only used it a bit but have really taken a liking to it. The rings it came with were solid and well-made but I've only used it in a LaRue SPR mount.
So I've had fewer than 1000 rounds on it. BUT..... I loaned it to a chum who used it in last year's National Patrol Rifle Comference and Competition (centermassinc.com), and he placed 2nd with it. He put nearly 3000 rounds through his Larue Stealth upper with my scope on top, between training and the match (he took first this year using a 1-4 Elcan). I played hell getting it back from him, finally got it back after he got his own;) .
Then it went to the war zone for about a year. The Marine who had it is a bona-fide gun guy, and it went all over the place with him. He was in harm's way often enough, but his rank kept him and my Millett from seeing daily gunfights...... not that there were none at all though.
I'm glad to have it back (especially since it means "F" came back in good shape). Just had a chance to spend some time with a US Optics SN-4. It has a lot going for it, great glass especially I suppose, but the awful truth is that for my purposes I'd take the Millett DMS over the US Optics piece (or, for the price of the USO, five DMS's). The US Optics is first focal plane, which maybe I'm just optically uneducated, but that whole thing seems so unuseful to me-- the reticle on 1X is small and hard to pick up, and at 4X where you'd like some precision, it's big. The reticle on this USO SN-4 is illuminated but not enough to be called, or used as, a red-dot.
The Elcan BTW has some good points-- my pals and I have been wishing for something that is really 1-4 with no in-betweens, I mean, who really needs or uses 2, 3, 3.5, or anything else in between 1 and 4X? The Elcan goes from 1 to 4 and back with the flip of a lever. Very quick and no unnecessary in-between magnifications.
wild_wild_wes
10-16-10, 18:27
Necromancy: how are these scopes holding up?
MassMark,
This still holding up well? My shop is holding one for me now...
I picked a Millet DMS/Burris PEPR combo at SWFA for $265.00. After trying to save for a higher end optic combo for a year, I finally came to the realization that my status in the financial world and focusing priorities on things like food, just would not allow it. I set my expectations low and have to say that I'm very pleased with this set-up.
I'll do a more extensive review later, but for now, here's my initial impressions:
The scope and mount are robust. I haven't done an official weight, but if everything fails, you can beat someone to death with this unit. I unpacked the scope and mount at work and had to wait until I got home to mount it. I laser bore-sighted it with a flashlight and a tree-trunk at 1am and took it to the range in the pouring rain the next day.
I must have been blessed by the laser-gods, as the scope was 1 click off up and right at 50-yards. From the bench, my groups were tight like prom night and off the bench not much changed. There is some fisheye at 100-yards and on 1x, but less so when you dial up to 1.5 and up. I left it set at 1.5 for most of a class 3-days later, (also in the pouring rain). My failure to properly LocTite the PEPR was my only hang-up that day. After a self-inflicted dope slap, I tightened up the mount properly and pressed on. I was not disappointed.
The donut-dot reticle is easy to pick up and bright - except in bright light. However, the reticle itself is easy to pic up with no illumination - the 1 MOA center dot is great for more precise shooting and the donut covers well for center-mass at longer ranges. I have not wrung this scope out past 200-yards, but between 5-feet and 200-yards, the scope performs well.
The Burris PEPR mount seems to be pretty well thought out. It's also large and heavy like the scope and I'm not sure I'll ever use the rails on the rings, (you never know I guess), but it locks up solidly, (if you do your part) and holds zero.
Laying in some tall grass on the range, shooting at 50-yards in the rain with my pack as a rest, I was pretty pleased with accuracy. I took 5-shots at a quarter, hit it once, dinged it twice and had two-flyers about 3/4 inch north and south. I'm not a bench shooter, so I don't plan on winning any matches with this scope. What I do plan on is beating the snot out of it and will report how this scope hold up. If folks are looking for a magnified, illuminated optic and are on a budget, this may indeed be an option.
https://www.m4carbine.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=5332&stc=1&d=1277298935
So what is your assessment of this scope two years later? Did it hold up well?
ToeTagger6552
09-17-15, 10:41
Managed to pick one up last weekend. Traded a Nikon Monarch 3x9 I bought at a gunshow for $10, so I feel I came out great. Haven't had it to the range yet. I know this thread is old, but just wondering how everyone's has been holding up. Any updates are greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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