Colt or Bushmaster armorer course

[Mung]

Not sure where to post this, sorry.

So I've been given the green light to go to an AR Armorer course. We are issued BMs. The 2 I'm looking at (and that my dept will pay for) are Colt and Bushmaster.

Colt is a 3 day course LEO/mil only for $400.

Bushmaster is a 2 day course for $500 and I believe it's open to the public.

Has anyone had experience with either/or? I've heard the BM is really good and either way it's a big privilege to get paid to go.

[PRGGodfather]

Well, since you issue Bushies, it would make sense to attend the Bushy course. That's the short answer, but not necessarily the best one.

LE Armorers courses, as a whole, only get you so far -- before the instructor says, "Once you get here, you need to send it back to the factory."

For example, most armorers courses do not teach how to measure gas orifices or how to alter their sizes -- but they do spend a disproportionate amount of time disassembling and reassembling stuff -- like the rear sight on an A2, which I've never had to do except in such courses. For the most part, it isn't rocket science -- but some gun plumbing courses are better than others as to depth of technical data and understanding.

Personally, I'd rather attend one of Ned Christiansen's classes, since what he teaches will help ensure your platform runs properly and reliably -- rather than sell a specific brand.

Understanding the platform vs. brand specific training is actually better, even if some police administrators get that open-mouthed, jello-necked head bob when you start talking guns with them. Manufacturers often do not have a vested interest in teaching LE types the more in-depth universal technical information, as they still want some work done in-house and they want to sell their product first.

Armorers courses are better than nothing, but gunsmithing courses are MUCH better, provided they are from a good school or instructor.

YMMV

[dhrith]

I don't know anything about what Colt or BM put out,
but I can +2 ned or sully.

[MarkG]

Well, since you issue Bushies, it would make sense to attend the Bushy course. That's the short answer, but not necessarily the best one.

LE Armorers courses, as a whole, only get you so far -- before the instructor says, "Once you get here, you need to send it back to the factory."

For example, most armorers courses do not teach how to measure gas orifices or how to alter their sizes -- but they do spend a disproportionate amount of time disassembling and reassembling stuff -- like the rear sight on an A2, which I've never had to do except in such courses. For the most part, it isn't rocket science -- but some gun plumbing courses are better than others as to depth of technical data and understanding.

Personally, I'd rather attend one of Ned Christiansen's classes, since what he teaches will help ensure your platform runs properly and reliably -- rather than sell a specific brand.

Understanding the platform vs. brand specific training is actually better, even if some police administrators get that open-mouthed, jello-necked head bob when you start talking guns with them. Manufacturers often do not have a vested interest in teaching LE types the more in-depth universal technical information, as they still want some work done in-house and they want to sell their product first.

Armorers courses are better than nothing, but gunsmithing courses are MUCH better, provided they are from a good school or instructor.

YMMV

It's an armorers course, not an engineering course. If you can't fail the course, it isn't worth taking (Ned/Sully). What good does it do to know how to modify barrels if you don't have the tools and trainging to do it.

If it isn't a Colt, its a clone!

[C4IGrant]

The AR platform is fairly standardized. Colt has forgotten more about AR's than BM will ever know so take their course.

Remember that the only way to become really good at building AR's is with years of experience while working on MANY different brands.


C4

[ST911]

I would expect most ACs from "good-as" makers to provide me with "good-as" knowledge. Perhaps I'm just cynical though.

I'd start with three C's- Colt, Caputo, and Christiansen. Then, the others.

Sully's class gets high marks and is worth consideration too.

[no1ofconsequence]

I attended this one (M16 / M4 / AR-15) earlier this year - good stuff! ... Knowledgeable / approachable instructor (Ken Elmore - former Colt trainer) with lots of hands-on.

check calendar for training dates near you:

http://www.specializedarmament.com/pages/2010_schedule.html

[PRGGodfather]

It's an armorers course, not an engineering course. If you can't fail the course, it isn't worth taking (Ned/Sully). What good does it do to know how to modify barrels if you don't have the tools and trainging to do it.

If it isn't a Colt, its a clone!

Well, like I said, some armorer's courses are better than others.

Now, if I understand your point, and frankly, I'm not sure I do -- we would agree the OP would be better off taking a more in-depth class covering the whole platform from someone like Ned Christiansen.

The OP's real problem is his department's issuing of Bushmasters in the first place, so our OP is seeking advice on what would be a good course of action to keep his guns running. That said, taking the Bushy course, while logical -- may not be the best choice.

You don't have to be an engineer to measure the gas orifice. Knowing its size (and what size it's supposed to be) can tell you a lot about how or why it is (or isn't) functioning as designed.

Bushmasters' gas orifices are usually larger than Colts, which is why I mentioned them in the first place. Overgassing can improve reliability somewhat, while trading off increased wear on internal parts.

[Redhat]

I've never been to a civilian course; what do they teach as far as gaging?

Thanks

[Robb Jensen]

I'd take Colt over Bushmaster, and over both of those I'd take Ned C. or Sully.

[seb5]

I've taken 3 different armorer courses over the years and felt like Sully's was the most bang for your buck, and time. The BM course was OK but sully puts out more info and you spend more hands on time.