View Full Version : Training dogs for protection
I posted a thread in Dec that my dog died. Now that I have a puppy that is about 4 months old she is totally different than the last dog who saw the same people that I would think as threats.
This dog seems to love everyone, and that doesnt work.
Besides guard dog training is there home stuff you can do?
PdxMotoxer
04-14-10, 06:11
I clicked edit for my misspelling of accredited and somehow i got a double.
sorry, mybad
if a mod/admin wants to delete this thank you
PdxMotoxer
04-14-10, 06:11
IMHO it depends somewhat on what breed of dog we are talking and their
temperament.
Some breeds need very little extra training to make them a good guard dogs
just feed them and love them and they would give their life to defend it's family it loves.
I'd say either way it would be well worth any monies spent on a good accredited trainer that works with both you and the dog or even your whole family and the dog. ;)
Littlelebowski
04-14-10, 06:58
Spend the money on a trainer if the breed is conducive to protection. Some dogs protect naturally (more than just barking). You do NOT want to go about this in an amateur fashion because sooner or later, something bad will happen.
What breed do you have? I used to own Rotties. I work over seas so no dogs in my near future. Find a good trainer. The good ones will not be cheap. If you really want a good protection dog buy one from a good trainer/breeder. Baden k9 is good as well as Leerburg.
IMHO it depends somewhat on what breed of dog we are talking and their
temperament.
Some breeds need very little extra training to make them a good guard dogs
just feed them and love them and they would give their life to defend it's family it loves.
I'd say either way it would be well worth any monies spent on a good accredited trainer that works with both you and the dog or even you whole family and the dog. ;)
Put well. Getting the right trainer is important. I my brief (two year) training with my boy. Protection training is not for every dog and not for every owner. Getting a good trainer is so key. I have seen some techniques to get dogs to bite that I am uncomfortable with ie., using cattle prods. The way I feel is the dog should want to work ie bite not be beaten into it. The wrong trainer can take a great dog and destroy it. A good trainer can create a protection dog that is well rounded and fairly trust worthy. Though all protection dogs I have seen that really had the goods per say require extra awareness on the part of the handler. For instance. My brothers love to get rowdy in a joking sense. If my boy is out they cannot. He will attack immediately if someone even jokingly roughs me up. The same thing with my kids. If they have friends over they know they cannot rough house in front of either one of the dogs. As the dog may misread the situation and "turn on". Which would be a disaster. I have seen really well rounded dogs get edgy. These are just things to think about before venturing forth. Find a good trainer and discuss options.
What breed do you have? I used to own Rotties. I work over seas so no dogs in my near future. Find a good trainer. The good ones will not be cheap. If you really want a good protection dog buy one from a good trainer/breeder. Baden k9 is good as well as Leerburg.
Rotties are great. My boy that I lost in 08 had no formal protection training. Though protected me once to great effect when I was jumped by three shit bags at a gas station one night. They did not know he was in the car and as soon as one attempted to grab me while the other set in with a baseball bat he came roaring out. They ran like hell fortunately and no one was seriously hurt. Man I loved that dog.
lethal dose
04-14-10, 10:18
Anyone in Ohio- I have a great resource for k9 protective and obedience training. If enough interest is shown, I will contact the ranch.
browningboy84
04-14-10, 10:31
I have a male lab that is about 90 lbs. He loves anyone as long as I or my wife are friendly with him. If someone comes into the yard, he starts barking and raising sand until I tell him that it is ok. Several close friends of mine who frequent the house a lot are licked to death by him. We had a repairman come over, and Drake licked him right after I told Drake it was ok. He is extremely protective of my wife especially. Until I let Drake know that it was ok for the repairman to be in the house, he was going nuts. I made sure that he was around kids often as a young pup, and he loves them. My nephew can pull his ears, and all Drake does is whine at him. I am considering getting him trained. Any thoughts on this, not trying to hijack this thread.
lethal dose
04-14-10, 11:19
My lab is EXACTLY the same way. He also loves animals but can tell if I don't like them... he almost killed a chow that belongs to the people across the field... I had to break it up.
I posted a thread in Dec that my dog died. Now that I have a puppy that is about 4 months old she is totally different than the last dog who saw the same people that I would think as threats.
So at 4 months you're looking for a fully formed guard dog? That dog doesn't have a fully wired brain yet and doesn't even know who it is yet. You shouldn't even be correcting that dog other than aversion. (leave it and Off commands.)
This dog seems to love everyone, and that doesnt work.
What's this mean? is it a specific kind of person you don't want the dog to like?
how do you this dog will love the kind of people you don't want it to like?
To be completely clear about this, at 4 months about the only thing you can really tell is 1) if the dog is going to be naturally fearful and 2) if they might not be willing they might be to work.
if the answer to either of those question is yes, then I wouldn't put that kind of dog in any sort of protection training. because you're asking for trouble. a fearful dog that you teach to bite is going to bite anything that scares it (clowns, old ladies that get grabby, little kids, police officers.) and if it's not willing to work, you'll never get anywhere in the kind of training required to do protection. Really protection is the last step in training. You have to get there through obedience and confidence building.
Just to add a caring and loving dog does not automatically mean that it will not do well at protection. If trained into the dog properly, protection is not necessarily looked at as being vicious by the dog, for the sake of viciousness, if that makes sense. They should perceive it as an activity that can be fun or gets the praise and reward by the handler.
As an example, my Belgian Malinois will protect his home and family fiercely. If I say your good, he will lick you and require copious amounts of petting and attention. But if in the next moment I tell him to bite you. He will do it and it won't be personal to him. If I call him off, he will stop and want you to pet him some more.
It isn't personal with him, nor should it be.
My boy doing some basic obedience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjXz7FdruRc
leopard hound
04-14-10, 17:54
MY 2 CENTS...... all dogs have different personalities as well. i have 2 catahoulas(hense my screen name) one will do everything in his power to distroy you if you come in his yard or house without me or my wife.so far i have saved a 90lb pit bull, a german shephard, and cable man. my female will bark at you but if you get close enough she will LICK you to death!
Just to add a caring and loving dog does not automatically mean that it will not do well at protection. If trained into the dog properly, protection is not necessarily looked at as being vicious by the dog, for the sake of viciousness, if that makes sense. They should perceive it as an activity that can be fun or gets the praise and reward by the handler.
As an example, my Belgian Malinois will protect his home and family fiercely. If I say your good, he will lick you and require copious amounts of petting and attention. But if in the next moment I tell him to bite you. He will do it and it won't be personal to him. If I call him off, he will stop and want you to pet him some more.
It isn't personal with him, nor should it be.
My boy doing some basic obedience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjXz7FdruRc
I agree and a good point. BTW Malinois even though I don't have one from what I have seen is my favorite breed for protection work. Absolutely a dog that is not trained no matter what the breed cannot me counted on for full protection. There is so much training involved. For the novice which I gather the thread starter is. Most untrained dogs won't make a full bite unless trained. You train them to do that. You give them no reward for anything less. If my dog does not take a full bite and won't "re bite" he gets no fight which equals no fun for him. My Cane Corso is in his second year of training. Occasionally I will have a decoy rough him up with a bamboo stick or kick him. It sounds like something PETA would stage a protest in front of my house for but I need to know he'll stay in the fight. Which he does. He goes even harder under stress. You cannot assume the bad guy is just going to let the dog take him down without a fight. Locally a PD canine officer was stabbed ten times and did not drop the bite. He lived and the bad guy went down. That's a "hard" dog lots of drive. If your pup is only four months there are games you can play to build the dogs drive. But paramount is obedience training . A dog that is not in complete control is a liability. The youngest dog I have seen go on a "send" or attack off leash was seven months. But that was a very special dog. He won several national titles. Maturity has a lot to do with it. Some breeds develop faster than others Malinois and shepherds develop and mature quickly. Bully breeds ie American Bulldog, Cane Corso etc... are much slower to mature and must be trained accordingly.
I agree with the quoted post. It should be fun for the dog. For the right dog it is. My dog thinks its one big game. As soon as he sees me pull out his harness his tail wags and he jumps up and down. I am NOT a believer in forcing a dog to do what it does not have in them. For instance I know of a trainer that will cattle prod a male dog on his scrotum to get him to bite. I love dogs and I would never ever let that happen to my dogs. But there are people like that out there. So be careful.
Oh for you Lab owners. I know of a Lab locally that is one hell of a protection dog. Not a breed I would pick for that work but this dog is all business. It is really cool to see this yellow lab that looks like he should be in a duck blind take down decoys. If I can find the picture I have of him working I will post it.
PdxMotoxer
04-14-10, 22:47
This is my daughter.........
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/PdxMotoXer/l_b11d084e3f7ef7fe3122ecb65c17f85e.jpg
She only had puppy training and never got spanked.
we trained her with a water bottle and those cheap squirt guns and
a squirt to the face if she was doing something "bad" helps keep the
aggression out of them plus you don't feel bad and they don't feel bad.
most of the times (90% for us) a stern no and only reaching for the water bottle
and she snaps to attention or stops doing whatever she isn't supposed to be doing.
We didn't get her for protection, my wife has had dobies all her life.
She is one of the most spoiled dogs on this planet!
I always joke that if there was a car crash and if it was me or the dog who needed
a kidney from my wife to live.
well......... It was sure nice knowin you guys. lol
Few years back my wife was walking her and 2 drunk Hispanic men approached
her and we always thought our girl would hide behind mom if threatened but
mom said her hair stood on end in full mohawk, stepped in between mom and
those men and showed her teeth like those dobies you see on TV and let out
a low growl that neither her or I had ever heard.
Those men turned and RAN.
(My wife had her 40s&w in her fannypack)
But niko got a huge steak the next day for diner.
Let me rephrase this. First the dog is a lab mix, and I dont know what it is mixed with. I am not talking about attack or bite training, more like just being protective of the yard/house. For example the last dog was VERY protective of "her" yard and the house if I was not with her. She would not bite, but would bark endlessly at anyone trying to get in the yard and would not back down, which is why my meters have to be read electronically. If I was in the yard she would get in between me and anyone stepping into the yard, hair would be up and the growling would start, until I told her it was ok. She was always just naturally cautious of people she did not know.
This new dog is not cautious of new people and wants to run up to everyone that walks by and make friends. She is trained enough not to leave the yard and will come when called, but will go up to anyone that comes in the yard.
I guess I am asking if this is just how she is always going to be or this something training can fix?
This is my daughter.........
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/PdxMotoXer/l_b11d084e3f7ef7fe3122ecb65c17f85e.jpg
She only had puppy training and never got spanked.
we trained her with a water bottle and those cheap squirt guns and
a squirt to the face if she was doing something "bad" helps keep the
aggression out of them plus you don't feel bad and they don't feel bad.
most of the times (90% for us) a stern no and only reaching for the water bottle
and she snaps to attention or stops doing whatever she isn't supposed to be doing.
We didn't get her for protection, my wife has had dobies all her life.
She is one of the most spoiled dogs on this planet!
I always joke that if there was a car crash and if it was me or the dog who needed
a kidney from my wife to live.
well......... It was sure nice knowin you guys. lol
Few years back my wife was walking her and 2 drunk Hispanic men approached
her and we always thought our girl would hide behind mom if threatened but
mom said her hair stood on end in full mohawk, stepped in between mom and
those men and showed her teeth like those dobies you see on TV and let out
a low growl that neither her or I had ever heard.
Those men turned and RAN.
(My wife had her 40s&w in her fannypack)
But niko got a huge steak the next day for diner.
She's a beautiful girl. Sounds like a great dog. Dobies are from my experience a great and solid breed. Sounds like she did her duty in regards to your wife. I was considering a Doberman for a long time. I have always liked them. I knew a dog trainer who used to be on NPR and wrote a few books. Dobies were one of his top five breeds. I train my dogs for sport and competition more so than for protection.
Let me rephrase this. First the dog is a lab mix, and I dont know what it is mixed with. I am not talking about attack or bite training, more like just being protective of the yard/house. For example the last dog was VERY protective of "her" yard and the house if I was not with her. She would not bite, but would bark endlessly at anyone trying to get in the yard and would not back down, which is why my meters have to be read electronically. If I was in the yard she would get in between me and anyone stepping into the yard, hair would be up and the growling would start, until I told her it was ok. She was always just naturally cautious of people she did not know.
This new dog is not cautious of new people and wants to run up to everyone that walks by and make friends. She is trained enough not to leave the yard and will come when called, but will go up to anyone that comes in the yard.
I guess I am asking if this is just how she is always going to be or this something training can fix?
Most of the time a dog that barks and asserts themselves is plenty to ward off the bad guys. It is easier to go somewhere else. I have a few canine officers as friends that I train with. I find it funny that perps respond more readily to a K9 than they do to a sidearm. They would rather get shot than bit due to what they tell me. I am confused by the logic. But it works so all the power to the K9 guys.:D I do know a guy that got a "live bite" with his protection trained pit bull. The damage was horrific as per description. I believe the offender never regained functional use of his arm. The dog severed his bicep and broke his arm. It was a clear self defense situation.
Most dogs are a deterrent, even at 20 pounds this puppy scares people. A dog that barks, growls and has its hair up isnt something anyone wants to deal with, and is great at keeping Jehova witnesses away from the house. Somehow I do not see this dog being the protective type, but she is an awesome dog.
maybe I made an opinion to quickly. I moved a bag of towels from the kitchen that she has seen for 2 weeks, into the hallway to put in a closet, she saw that and growled and barked.
Maybe she just needs get older, and she will get more protective over time.
Just to add a caring and loving dog does not automatically mean that it will not do well at protection. If trained into the dog properly, protection is not necessarily looked at as being vicious by the dog, for the sake of viciousness, if that makes sense. They should perceive it as an activity that can be fun or gets the praise and reward by the handler.
As an example, my Belgian Malinois will protect his home and family fiercely. If I say your good, he will lick you and require copious amounts of petting and attention. But if in the next moment I tell him to bite you. He will do it and it won't be personal to him. If I call him off, he will stop and want you to pet him some more.
It isn't personal with him, nor should it be.
My boy doing some basic obedience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjXz7FdruRc
Where do you live? Interesting mountains. Makes for a beautiful backdrop.
Your 4 months old puppy is a puppy and should like everyone.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.