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lindertw
04-16-10, 16:00
Couldn't let the handgun forum have all the fun with their 2000 round challenge (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=43569), so I decided to try it with my Noveske N4 basic carbine:

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/noveske_13AUG09_1.jpg

Rifle: Noveske N4 basic carbine (14.5" w/perm attached SF556-212A)
Caliber: 5.56
Ammunition:

* Federal XM193 55gr
* Prvi Partizan 55gr
* Federal bulk pack (WalMart) 55gr
* Federal XM223SP1 62gr
* Black Hills blue box 55gr

Dates of testing: 27MAR10 - 16APR10
Total rounds fired: 2,340
Range visits: 7

* 140 rounds fired (~15 mins)
* 300 rounds fired (~45 mins)
* 300 rounds fired (~45 mins)
* 400 rounds fired (~45 mins)
* 360 rounds fired (~45 mins)
* 240 rounds fired (~45 mins)
* 600 rounds fired (~65 mins) details below

Magazines: mix of PMAG/Colt/Bravo Company 30-rounders

Stoppages: zero
Malfunctions: zero
Breakages: zero

Notes: All testing occurred at the NRA indoor range in Fairfax, VA. The carbine was not cleaned prior to the test (boresnake and several drops of oil [*eta lube was slip 2000] were applied several hundred rounds prior to the test starting - those rounds were not counted). Carbine has factory BCG and Bill Springfield 4.5# trigger job. Additionally, a Magpul BAD was in place during the entire test.

Today's range visit consisted of 600 rounds of Black Hills 55gr (blue box) fired in just over an hour. I took my Fluke IR thermometer and recorded temps at the following locations: chamber, bolt face, bolt side, handguard (bottom front), and barrel (approx 2 inches ahead of the FSB). I did my best to get good temp readings; if something seemed off I ran the temp again to verify - curved surfaces can be tricky.

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/nov_2k_challenge_temps.jpg

I took her apart for pics, but didn't clean anything:

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/nov_2k_challenge_1.jpg

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/nov_2k_challenge_3.jpg?t=1271450894

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/nov_2k_challenge_4.jpg

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/nov_2k_challenge_5.jpg

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/nov_2k_challenge_6.jpg

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/nov_2k_challenge_7.jpg

I'm debating on whether or not to clean her, or keep going until she chokes :cool: I wasn't sure it would make it 2000 rounds with no cleaning/lube, but I was wrong.
Spooky130
04-16-10, 16:10
Awesome! Shoot it until it chokes!

Spooky
randolph
04-16-10, 16:11
Im pretty sure I wouldnt have ran mine dry :p




note to self, dont buy a used N4 from lindertw anytime soon...
Whootsinator
04-16-10, 16:55
Oh... my... god... that is one dirty carbine.
CJFirefly
04-16-10, 19:35
Awesome. Thanks for the info.
armakraut
04-16-10, 20:44
You've got some gun on your carbon.
CarbonCycles
04-16-10, 23:51
Well it looks like you're just about done breaking her in :)
Molon
04-17-10, 09:30
Strong work!:cool:
scottd907
04-17-10, 11:12
Very nice work. Iv been curious about how warm my parts get after a few hundred continuous rounds.
lindertw
04-17-10, 11:27
thanks all - here's a plot of the temps:

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/temp_chart.png

note: the cool down period between mags 10-11 was a solid 5 minutes; closer to 2-3 mins between mags 5-6 and 15-16.
Skyyr
04-17-10, 11:29
Nicely done. This makes me want to get a basic N4 now lol.
scottd907
04-17-10, 11:42
Nicely done. This makes me want to get a basic N4 now lol.

Well worth it for a $850(as listed on rainier arms) uppers. I wonder how the double chrome line thinkness they apply to the their N4 barrels is affected by the heat. Iv notice my barrel cools a lot quicker.
Molon
04-17-10, 12:22
thanks all - here's a plot of the temps:

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/temp_chart.png

note: the cool down period between mags 10-11 was a solid 5 minutes; closer to 2-3 mins between mags 5-6 and 15-16.

Again, excellent work! I can't tell you how refreshing it is to see someone capable of posting factual, first hand information.
Magic_Salad0892
04-19-10, 02:58
Congrats!

I may do this with my KAC, 11.5'' Suppressed.
ForTehNguyen
04-19-10, 07:59
Well worth it for a $850(as listed on rainier arms) uppers. I wonder how the double chrome line thinkness they apply to the their N4 barrels is affected by the heat. Iv notice my barrel cools a lot quicker.

barrel profile affects how fast they cool down. Thicker barrels will heat up slower but also cool down slower, thinner barrels heat up faster but cool down faster. That Noveske N4 doesnt look like a govt profile barrel, are they pencils or lightweights?
djegators
04-19-10, 08:45
Barrel specs from Noveske website:

16" Cold Hammer Forged 5.56mm Barrel
--Made of Mil Spec M249 Machine Gun barrel steel, with heavy M249 Chrome Lining,
(appx. 2 times as thick as an M4 or M16)
--Extended Feed Ramps
--Same weight as M4 barrel, 1 lb, 9 oz, but improved
Magic_Salad0892
04-19-10, 17:41
I find it really awesome how cool the bolt face, and side stayed the whole test.

I have a newfound faith in the DI system.

Piston will always be my favorite. But damn, that's amazing.
lindertw
04-19-10, 18:56
barrel profile affects how fast they cool down. Thicker barrels will heat up slower but also cool down slower, thinner barrels heat up faster but cool down faster. That Noveske N4 doesnt look like a govt profile barrel, are they pencils or lightweights?

N4, 6920 and 6520 barrel profiles... hope this helps:

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/barrel_compare.jpg

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/barrel_profile_compare2.jpg
Alberto
04-20-10, 08:52
Great thread, thanks for trying this out.

Makes me want to try it as well, moreso because Im lazy and dont feel like cleaning:eek:
jdp710
04-20-10, 10:55
Thanks for the info/temperature results.
lindertw
04-20-10, 19:55
I broke down and cleaned her today. For the most part, the grime wiped right off with a rag/toothbrush/q-tip (and a few drops of Slip 2000 carbon killer). I was pretty surprised with how easily it cleaned up.

The cam pin showed a lot of wear and was replaced with a BCM piece I had on hand (rifle has ~6300 rounds on it total, so it was time). The bolt got a liberal dose of Slip 2000 oil and she's ready to roll once again.

Thanks for tracking, this was a cool experiment. And a tip-o-the-hat to Noveske, they build great rifles!
Plato
04-21-10, 18:54
My N4 went 3500 rounds without cleaning (just bore snake and relubing) and ran great the whole way. Hats off to Noveske indeed!
Swift
04-22-10, 15:07
Your post is awesome, thank you.
lindertw
04-22-10, 18:11
...without cleaning (just bore snake and relubing)...

sounds like cleaning to me ;)
rat31465
04-22-10, 18:28
According to the so called experts on many of the Television Firearms shows this just cannot be true... AR's are finicky, malfunction easily and must be kept immaculate to ensure proper running. Therefore one should buy an AK if they want a Firearm that is dependable at the expense of accuracy.

Please note the sarcasm dripping from the above post.

Great test...Love it.
MistWolf
04-22-10, 18:36
According to the so called experts on many of the Television Firearms shows this just cannot be true... AR's are finicky, malfunction easily and must be kept immaculate to ensure proper running. Therefore one should buy an AK if they want a Firearm that is dependable at the expense of accuracy.

Please note the sarcasm dripping from the above post.

Great test...Love it.That's lubricant- dripping with lubricant, just like a good AR should be
Ratfink
04-23-10, 08:15
ive put 1800 rounds through my afghan with no stopages but had a failzero bcg but congrats on the test
SteveL
04-23-10, 10:26
I'd never even heard of Noveske until I joined this forum a few days ago. It seems they make an excellent rifle. Thanks for taking the time to do the test and post the results.
tirod
04-23-10, 18:26
Great pics, great data. This goes a long way to putting real numbers on what really goes on.

The chamber pic is really interesting, as the majority of that deposit has to have come from around the case during extraction. The gas tube doesn't point down there, it's directing any gas back onto the key.

Point being, someone who does this with a piston gun would see about the same amount of deposit. My old HK sure got dirty.
eternal24k
04-23-10, 19:02
there is truly something to say about quality components.
Congrats on your test and thanks for the data/pics.
I havent done this since my Sig 556P, if you were really compelled, I would love to see how this would fare with Wolf.
Eagle1*
04-24-10, 12:29
this is great to hear as I have a standard Noveske N4 bacis coming to my dealer next week that I ordered from Noveske last week. This is great to hear, thanks for the "torture" test.
lindertw
04-24-10, 19:54
hit the range tonight to put a few rounds down range after cleaning her up:

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/24APR10_nov_accuracy_1.jpg
http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/24APR10_nov_accuracy_3.jpg
http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac306/lindertw/24APR10_nov_accuracy_2.jpg

I picked up the Black Hills 68gr Heavy Match HP on a whim, I may have to grab a few more boxes next time I'm in the local shop!