View Full Version : Who here uses .40 Glocks?
TheSmiter1
04-18-10, 02:29
I know they've got a stigma here, and for apparently good reasons. But do any of you use, and enjoy using, .40 cal Glocks? Does anyone here put them through heavy usage?
Not intending to cause a huge debate. I like the Glock 19, and I may get a 23 in the future. With the 4th Gen coming out, it may be a moot point, but I'm still curious as to who has used them with success. And who hasn't...
Thanks!
(search function is not working for me, sorry)
dmancornell
04-18-10, 02:51
My CC is a Glock 23. Put about 3000 rounds through it so far. Not exactly heavy usage but it has not failed me once.
operator81
04-18-10, 05:56
The .40 is my least favorite caliber in any handgun, especially in a Glock. That being said, I carried a G22 through the academy and for the following year on duty. I sold it in 2007 only to buy another G22 RTF2 last month. I'm still not sure why I did, but I have it.
My dislike for the .40 in particular is the recoil impulse. Should the increase in recoil = an increase in performance I'd probably think differently about the caliber. That being said, with the exception of a G23 owned by me and a friend's G35 with extraction issues, I don't see .40 Glocks failing. I've never seen a G22 fail, with or without a light attached. If you don't mind the recoil, there's nothing wrong with them. I've always shot them well, I just shoot the 9mm better and can shoot longer before fatigue sets in.
Duty Gun- G22
Off-duty/plain clothes/CC- G23 (gen 2)
BUG/CC- G27
All are shot a lot. The only one of the bunch I have not had any malfuctions with is the G27. It has around 3k through it.
My duty gun will be changing to a M&P 45. Once that happens I will be trading all my Glock 40's for 9's.
Gen 4 has not been out long enough to get my attention. Gen 3 has. In 40's, they are a no-go. You'll hear this again, for good reason. In Glock, stick with the 9mm.
Quiet-Matt
04-18-10, 07:19
I CCd a 27 for 10 years, not a single hiccup. Now I carry a 23, same boring reliability. ;)
The 40 cal Glocks are considered by some to be least reliable Glocks but if you listened to some on the internet you'd think they literally fall apart with every shot.
I own a G23 and while I don't shoot it that often it's been reliable and I carry it every so often. I think if I was looking for a 40 cal in a Glock I'd look seriously at the Gen4 G22.
RogerinTPA
04-18-10, 07:41
The .40 is my least favorite caliber in any handgun, especially in a Glock. That being said, I carried a G22 through the academy and for the following year on duty. I sold it in 2007 only to buy another G22 RTF2 last month. I'm still not sure why I did, but I have it.
My dislike for the .40 in particular is the recoil impulse. Should the increase in recoil = an increase in performance I'd probably think differently about the caliber. That being said, with the exception of a G23 owned by me and a friend's G35 with extraction issues, I don't see .40 Glocks failing. I've never seen a G22 fail, with or without a light attached. If you don't mind the recoil, there's nothing wrong with them. I've always shot them well, I just shoot the 9mm better and can shoot longer before fatigue sets in.
That's one of the reasons I traded my 1st gen G23 for an M&P40, very controllable and pleasant to shoot compared to the G23. The other was the grip. There are some folks who will never warm up to the .40, due to the snappier recoil.
here are some folks who will never warm up to the .40, due to the snappier recoil.
I'd like to shoot an M&P40 to see how tame the recoil is but I don't know anyone local that owns one.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=51356
I am doing a T&E of a Gen4 G22 right now. I will also add that my main carry gun is a G23. I own a 21,23,19 and am issued a 22. I have never had ANY issues with ANY of my Glocks. I keep them maintained and clean. I was not a fan of my 27 and sold it. My 2 BUGs are a Kahr K40 and an M&P 40c. I still think of going back to the 27 for magazine compatibility. Recoil is not an issue for me and i use my Gen2 model 19 for range work.
madisonsfinest
04-18-10, 08:10
I have a Gen 3 22 and it never had an issue until I attached a tlr1. Once I did I started to see a lot of malfunctions. Since then I put all 11 coil magazine springs and #8 followers in them. I also replaced the slide assembly spring and I have not had any further malfunctions. That being said I have a Gen 4 22 arriving Monday.
John_Wayne777
04-18-10, 08:47
I know they've got a stigma here, and for apparently good reasons. But do any of you use, and enjoy using, .40 cal Glocks? Does anyone here put them through heavy usage?
Not intending to cause a huge debate. I like the Glock 19, and I may get a 23 in the future. With the 4th Gen coming out, it may be a moot point, but I'm still curious as to who has used them with success. And who hasn't...
Thanks!
(search function is not working for me, sorry)
A lot of people are forced to use them because their agency/department issues them.
There are, without question, .40 caliber Glock handguns that run. The snag is that there are also lots of .40 caliber Glock handguns that don't. The challenge is making sure you have one of the guns that works. So far, other than working for an agency with a babied contract like the FBI contract, there's no good way to ensure you get one of the ones that works.
I've spent some time with .40 and .357 Glocks and I never really liked them from a subjective shooting perspective. I don't like Glocks in general, but the 9mm's are OK. The .40's and .357's have too much muzzle flip for my tastes...especially when compared to other .40/.357 guns on the market like the (at the time) USP or the P229. These days there are even better engineered guns on the market like the P30 or the M&P that seem to handle recoil very well making them more pleasant to shoot. I haven't had the chance to pull the trigger on a Gen 4 Glock yet. The beefier recoil spring may fix some of the shooting characteristics that I don't care for on the Glock.
Robb Jensen
04-18-10, 08:53
I'm shooting and a carrying a Glock 22 Gen 4 currently....so far it's been great.
I'm shooting and a carrying a Glock 22 Gen 4 currently....so far it's been great.
FLAWED DESIGN!!!
[QUOTE=M4arc;630673]The 40 cal Glocks are considered by some to be least reliable Glocks but if you listened to some on the internet you'd think they literally fall apart with every shot.
I own a G23 and while I don't shoot it that often it's been reliable and I carry it every so often. I think if I was looking for a 40 cal in a Glock I'd look seriously at the Gen4 G22.[/QUOTE
I have all three 40 cal glocks never had any issues with them they never blew up in my hands and I shot them a ton. I have no issues with them either. That being said I carry and use 9mm Glks now cause of the ammo costs of the last two years.
I have all three 40 cal glocks never had any issues with them they never blew up in my hands and I shot them a ton. I have no issues with them either. That being said I carry and use 9mm Glks now cause of the ammo costs of the last two years.
Clearly, you're the exception to the rule. In case you haven't heard (or read on the internet) they are huge piles of POS that crumble to pieces with every round fired (provided they'll even fire the round in the first place.)
:eek:
The 40 cal Glocks are considered by some to be least reliable Glocks but if you listened to some on the internet you'd think they literally fall apart with every shot.
I own a G23 and while I don't shoot it that often it's been reliable and I carry it every so often. I think if I was looking for a 40 cal in a Glock I'd look seriously at the Gen4 G22.
Clearly, you're the exception to the rule. In case you haven't heard (or read on the internet) they are huge piles of POS that crumble to pieces with every round fired (provided they'll even fire the round in the first place.)
:eek:
I totally agree I may just blow them up so I can live up to the rest of the rumors you hear. I know some have issues but most times it happens at some point in a guns life it is a mechanical object
I carried my G22 for about 10 years. I don't think the gun has ever had a malf of any kind. I just rotated it out because the frame texture has worn to the point that the pistol feels like a smooth bar of soap.
Littlelebowski
04-18-10, 12:27
Clearly, you're the exception to the rule. In case you haven't heard (or read on the internet) they are huge piles of POS that crumble to pieces with every round fired (provided they'll even fire the round in the first place.)
:eek:
Wrong. They KABOOM in your hands with a kill radius of roughly 5 meters.
Quiet-Matt
04-18-10, 12:38
Wrong. They KABOOM in your hands with a kill radius of roughly 5 meters.
LOL! :p
On duty I carry a G22 and G27 daily. They work fine, but I'd trade them for 9mm's in a heartbeat if I had the option.
The first G22 I was issued had continual failures to feed. It started at the academy and I was given new mags. The next attempt to correct had the smiths polishing the feed ramp. When that still didn't solve it they sent me on my way with the old, "if it keeps happening, tell someone in your office when you get there and they'll give you a new one." Easier said than done of course. I got to my office and the FTF's continued. I spent my own money on a brand new Glock recoil spring/guide rod. That didn't help. I sent it back for maintenance. They replaced all springs and test fired it. I got it back and shot a USPSA match the next weekend. Twice I experienced FTF's. I sent it back again and told them I'd throw it in the river if they returned it to me.
In the end, I received a brand new G22 in it's place. I have had a couple FTF's with it, but nothing like the original gun. My G27 runs fine. Every other Glock I've shot in any caliber runs fine. That said, I'd prefer to carry a host of other guns if I were permitted (M&P, XDM, HK, 1911, Sig 220 SAO, my Novak P14). I don't keep a round count on the G22 because it's owned by my agency and they do preventative maintenance every 3 years. I do shoot at least one match a month - usually on the order of 150 - 200 rounds. We shoot quals four times a year which comes out to 100 rounds just for 2 qual courses, plus whatever tactical drills they have us do.
Also, I guess I should feel a little blessed... my G22 has a SF X300 on it 24/7 and the light doesn't seem to cause the issues it has with other G22's I've read/heard about. Interestingly, the FL Highway Patrol is going to the 45GAP with 4th Gen Glocks. The guns that get lights are having them permanently mounted (trooper choice) according to one trooper I work with... not really sure what to make of that. Maybe Glock still doesn't have it figured out. If your light dies, you have to have it replaced by a smith??? WTF?
Off duty I refuse to carry the G22. It goes back to the days when they wouldn't replace my first G22 and I didn't trust it at all.
My workgun is a third generaion Glock 35 with an attached x300... It has been an outstandng firearm that I trust with my life on a daiy basis...
B
The 40 cal Glocks are considered by some to be least reliable Glocks but if you listened to some on the internet you'd think they literally fall apart with every shot.
Exactly. There are things to be mindful of when combining variables, but the bona fide issues that have come up in places are over-extrapolated. There are umpteen thousand .40SW Glocks running just fine, and doing so for many years.
I'm with Buck...My work gun is G35 with X300. It has a Vickers Mag release, factory extended slide release, and Warren sights. It has about 15K rounds through it, and I have no issues carrying it or recommending it to anyone.
It has performed great and i have no complaints about it.
Justin
I worked for an agency that issued a DAO Ruger P95 in 9mm but allowed veterans to carry a personal weapon in 9mm or .45. In 2007, it issued the Glock 23 and all were required to carry it. The guns ran fine, but many were burdened by the sharp recoil. I would have carrried my Glock 19 until retirement but that was not an option.
G22 with an X200 on duty. I replace the recoil spring every few thousand rounds, and only use new magazines. Since mounting the light, I've had a few FtF's, but these have been while shooting 1 handed. I think I might have been limp wristing; I admit that I'm the weak link. But this is 3-4 failures over several thousand rounds over the last 2 years.
Looking back, with what we're issuing now for 9mm ammo, I would have stayed with the 17. There's no longer as much of a trade-off.
I am one of the Glock armorers at work. We have 44 or 45 Gen3 Glock 22 pistols that were purchased in 2000. Never had any blow up, no catastrophic failures. Very reliable. Some are shot more than others of course. I don't care for it personally, I don't like how it feels and I don't shoot it as well as my 1911. To the point that I had to bench all other handguns and only carry the 22 and force myself to concentrate on it. If I lag in dry fire or live practice I'll start pushing rounds low/left. That doesn't happen in any of my other handguns.
We've had minor parts replaced on the higher round count guns. Front sights coming loose all the time, slides locking back from people riding the stop with their thumbs. Those are the main issues. The minor issue is that lots of us just don't shoot them well but they are cheap and reliable. We are getting the Gen4 pistols in a few months so I'm hoping the smaller grip remedies my main complaint.
Magic_Salad0892
04-18-10, 14:24
I had a Gen 3 Glock 22.
It functioned fine in 15 thousand rounds.
cougar_guy04
04-18-10, 15:06
I don't have near as much experience as some with the .40 S&W Glocks, but one close friend and his father (also a good friend of mine) carry them exclusively. and haven't had any problems at all (and considering they lived on a range, they shot them a lot).
Personally, I've thought about getting one of the 3rd Gens as a backup almost. When I couldn't find 9mm around here (all I shoot are G17/19/34) I could find plenty of .40.
Kentucky Cop
04-18-10, 15:54
I have carried a Glock 22 .40 cal 3rd generation for several years. No problems at all with the weapon. Hoping to get the 4th generation soon. Saved my life actually. Reliable to say the least......thank goodness.
Ky Cop
I have thousands of rounds thru my G22's with no issues they have been my go to for years, until i got my M&P 9 and them go the M&P .40 now they just sit in the safe and my Glocks are rentals for my classes
My Glock .40s ran fine and I never had much issue with them, until I did, and that was fixed once I learned to keep up with the PMCS/parts replacement on them.
The guns my agency bought, they didn't run, at all. During that time period several other agencies also had issues, and since then I have heard from many other LE sources of various issues.
If may be funny to talk about guns blowing up, yada yada, but when you are the guy responsible for 350 pistols and they don't ****ing work no matter what you do, and Glock is trying to alternately feed you shit and pull Jedi mind tricks to avoid the real issue, it sucks bad. That is a fact.
Most recent large agency to dump the Glock 22 was Milwaukee, and for very good reason.
The gen 4 guns seem to have the fails-to-feed issue solved, but I know of possible other issues cropping up that are ammo and agency specific.
I carry a G23 backed up by a G27 on a daily basis. Several thousand trouble free rounds through each so far.
I prefer the recoil impulse with the G19/G26 combination, but our agency policy is we must carry issued ammunition, and our issued 9mm ammunition is really, really, bad. I've also found that, after several days on the range, I can manage the recoil of the G23 just as well as the G19, though I have to "muscle" the gun more.
The G26 is A LOT more pleasant to shoot than the G27, though...
Regards,
Kevin
NigeriusBaldwin
04-18-10, 20:18
I have a G27 that has been one fantabulous little pistol. Spent most of her life in a Galco Ankle Rig getting soaked in the winter, muddied in the spring and dusted in the summer months.
Had one ftfeed with a Rem UMC 180 grain halfway through a G23 mag a few months back. Buddy was shooting it, not me. No issues since with either the gun or that particular magazine.
Recoil impulse is definitely "snappy" but still very controllable to my hands. Not near as "choppy" as the 2 G23's I owned and eventually sold. To me, the G27 is a smoother and more manageable creature than her larger counterpart. I've been able to hit man sized targets out to 75 yards with regularity using said blaster. I have yet, however, to shoot a G22 or the Legendary G35, much less a new Gen4, so my overall experience on the Glock .40 platform is fairly limited.
tracker722
04-18-10, 20:23
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TheSmiter1
04-18-10, 21:45
So basically, there are problems with a larger percentage of them than there should be, but for the most part, they work. Sometimes. Kind of...
I'd imagine this would be alright but from some reading and even some responses here, Glock handled (handles?) the problems terribly. I have to wonder why.
Also, do any of you think that a steel chassis would help at all? Kind of like in the USP and M&P? Is it possible for Glock to implement something like this, or would this be impossible with the current design?
tracker722
04-18-10, 21:53
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A Glock 23 is my issued weapon, I was issued it in March of '98 and have had no issues with it at all-it runs like a champ. Glock makes a great weapon.
i have a secong gen. g.23 with 10,000 + rds. thru it again no issues. it eats anything i've fed it.
I carry a 22 on duty and a 27 back up, I carry a 23 off duty. Hundreds of rounds through all of them with no issues. I actually sold an H&K USPc and a G17 so I could buy the 23 and 27 to use at work.
In the academy we used very old 22s that belonged to the college. outside of some front sites falling off we never had any major issues. These guns have had countless rounds put through them.
It is interesting to note that when we took them all the way down to clean them some of the locking blocks were broken (some in two pieces). Surprisingly this didn't seem to affect the performance of the gun however and was an easy fix to swap them out.
tracker722--You have been given direct first hand information by tpd223, not "hearsay or innuendo". I personally know him and the LE agency he works for--all his comments on this issue are 100% accurate. There have been a significantly higher total percentage of Gen 3 .40 Glocks that have had problems compared with 9 mm Glocks.
Has the FBI had problems with their .40 Glocks?
tracker722
04-19-10, 14:05
*************************
My workgun is a third generaion Glock 35 with an attached x300... It has been an outstandng firearm that I trust with my life on a daiy basis...
B
+1, I have had very good luck with G 22's as well. I am religious about rotating my magazines monthly. I also almost exclusively shoot them with a x200 or x300 attached.
"Glock 40's are the least reliable Glock" Ok, but by that standard that's still pretty reliable. I have never has issue with any of mine.
Tracker
You just had the armorer for a 350 person dept tell there are issues. He also tells you that the Milwaukee PD dumped Glock for "very good reasons".
You then have one of the most renowned ballistic guys in the english speaking
world tell you there are problems.
Now let's look at Glock implementation of the No 8 follower and the 11 coil mag spring as a stop gap measure re the G22/Weapon Mounted Light issue.
Let's now couple that with the introduction of the Gen 4 recoil system in the G22 platform.
IMHO, these are clues.
FULL DISCLOSURE
I own a G19, I own a g34, I own a g35 and I own a G21SF. I texture Glocks as a side business. Anyone who knows me will tell you I am the most Glock oriented guy they known. I shoot with a department on a near weekly basis that has issued G22 for years and has not had the widespead function issues that Topeka, Milwaukee and others have had, particularly the malfuntions involving the G22 with a WML. However, for me no to acknowledge the issue
FWIW, I AIWB a G35 more than another pistol at the moment. In 10k rounds, 2k with a WML, the weapon has worked well with 155, 165 and 180g loads of various makers in various genrations of mags. Just because mine works does not discount what others have said in the slightest on this issue.
Having said all that when guys like TPD223 and DocGKR say there is a problem, there is a problem.
YMMV. Be safe and well.
tracker722
04-19-10, 16:01
*********************
I believe you want a heavier (steel) gun or a solid recoil management system (like the H&K USP) for the .40. You are going to feel the recoil with a light weight polimer pistol otherwise. No dought that a fast heavy bullet like th .40 is going to put more wear and tear on a pistol over time.
dojpros,
That is what I am looking for. What specifically are the problems, not a fight.
I too am an armorer for my department. Even though we don't issue the G22, there are many who use it as an off-duty gun.
What serial number ranges?
What exactly is happening?
What is Glock saying?
I am NOT trying to pick a fight. Why can't people get that?
I just want to know the above. Is that too hard?
If you netsearch tpd's user name, he has posted extensively on his experience. I know he has elsewhere, perhaps the threads are here, too.
Glock haters!!
Have the G17, G22, G23, G27. They all run great. I was a diehard Sig man just a few years ago. Even carried a Colt Gov for years. Of all the duty guns I have carried in 22 years the G22 has been right up there with the Sig and Colt as one of my favorites.
The Glock is a great gun. You would have never heard me say that just 4 years ago. Yes I'm a convert!:cool:
tracker722
04-19-10, 18:20
***********************
Our department issued us Glock 22's, 23's, and 27's in 2000. We never had any issues with the 27's, and 23's. some issues started showing up with later models of 22's, mostly with the lights mounted, but not always. I brought this issue to the attention of the powers that be along with some information on other departments ongoing issues, along with many of TPD's posts.
We now issue only 23's, to all. There's still a few 22's in service and several 27's(as back ups, off duty or narc guys sidearms). I've carried the same 23 since 2000 and have somewhere around 14,000 rounds through it. I'm not going to say I've never had any malfunctions, but I've had so few it does not matter. The only ones that come to mind are when I am shooting one handed, with a light around a shield. There's been a handful of these issues over the years and I can generally chase these down to the 3rd or 4th round in a string, with a somewhat compromised grip. I trust this pistol more than any other I own, to include 2 more 23's, 26, 19, and 35, not to mention the S&W wheelies.
I stopped carrying the 23 for SWAT a couple of years ago and bought a 35. I'm still not convinced this is a good move. I've noticed, as have several of our firearms instructors, that the 23 seems to be, feels like, or appears to be more accurate than either the 22 or 35. It's subtle but several of us have noticed this phenomenon. We have shot from rests and measured the groups as well. The initial Glocks all came from the factory with the 3.5 (actually closer to 4.5 lbs.) connector, so it's an apples to apples comparison with the other 22's and 35's.
I personally do not prefer the 40 for anything. I still feel like it was an answer looking for a question. But with it being issued and my having access to 40 ammo it is not really much of a compromise as far as, well anything. The 35 has a higher capacity, which means nothing to me, longer sight radius, but gives you a full length grip. The 40 works, period. But if left to my own devices would carry a 9 or a 45, and have over the years.
TheSmiter1
04-19-10, 20:22
Our department issued us Glock 22's, 23's, and 27's in 2000. We never had any issues with the 27's, and 23's. some issues started showing up with later models of 22's, mostly with the lights mounted, but not always. I brought this issue to the attention of the powers that be along with some information on other departments ongoing issues, along with many of TPD's posts.
We now issue only 23's, to all. There's still a few 22's in service and several 27's(as back ups, off duty or narc guys sidearms). I've carried the same 23 since 2000 and have somewhere around 14,000 rounds through it. I'm not going to say I've never had any malfunctions, but I've had so few it does not matter. The only ones that come to mind are when I am shooting one handed, with a light around a shield. There's been a handful of these issues over the years and I can generally chase these down to the 3rd or 4th round in a string, with a somewhat compromised grip. I trust this pistol more than any other I own, to include 2 more 23's, 26, 19, and 35, not to mention the S&W wheelies.
I stopped carrying the 23 for SWAT a couple of years ago and bought a 35. I'm still not convinced this is a good move. I've noticed, as have several of our firearms instructors, that the 23 seems to be, feels like, or appears to be more accurate than either the 22 or 35. It's subtle but several of us have noticed this phenomenon. We have shot from rests and measured the groups as well. The initial Glocks all came from the factory with the 3.5 (actually closer to 4.5 lbs.) connector, so it's an apples to apples comparison with the other 22's and 35's.
I personally do not prefer the 40 for anything. I still feel like it was an answer looking for a question. But with it being issued and my having access to 40 ammo it is not really much of a compromise as far as, well anything. The 35 has a higher capacity, which means nothing to me, longer sight radius, but gives you a full length grip. The 40 works, period. But if left to my own devices would carry a 9 or a 45, and have over the years.
Thanks for that post. Very informative.
Thanks to everyone who has responded.
That is strange that the 23s functioned better with the lights attached. Is it like this in all cases? Perhaps it has something to do with the longer frame of the G22 allowing or requiring more flex?
Anyway, I'll always be a 9mm fanboy. I have a Glock 19 and it's really growing on me. But if I had to use a .40 (which I only would if I was required to carry it, as I would rather use 9mm even in FMJ or ball form), I would not be uncomfortable with a Glock, so long as I would be able to test it for function properly. It seems they either work, or they don't.
Thanks to all for the responses. This is a good website to get straight answers.
Thanks for that post. Very informative.
Thanks to everyone who has responded.
That is strange that the 23s functioned better with the lights attached. Is it like this in all cases? Perhaps it has something to do with the longer frame of the G22 allowing or requiring more flex?
Anyway, I'll always be a 9mm fanboy. I have a Glock 19 and it's really growing on me. But if I had to use a .40 (which I only would if I was required to carry it, as I would rather use 9mm even in FMJ or ball form), I would not be uncomfortable with a Glock, so long as I would be able to test it for function properly. It seems they either work, or they don't.
Thanks to all for the responses. This is a good website to get straight answers.
I don't know the reason for the 22 w/light issues. More flex with a longer frame makes sense but then it should effect the 35 and 24 as well. If it has I'm not familiar with it. I think it comes down to the 22 length system just not having the sychronicity of the other systems.
Littlelebowski
04-20-10, 08:50
dojpros,
That is what I am looking for. What specifically are the problems, not a fight.
I too am an armorer for my department. Even though we don't issue the G22, there are many who use it as an off-duty gun.
What serial number ranges?
What exactly is happening?
What is Glock saying?
I am NOT trying to pick a fight. Why can't people get that?
I just want to know the above. Is that too hard?
What you're asking for is obviously stuff that may not be publicly available. That being said, think about what you're asking for and look here (http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=64921&an=0&page=20#64921).
You can also sign up at lightfighter.net and read a similar thread in their Secondary Weapons forum but be warned: follow the instructions in the registration email to the letter and listen much, talk little.
What you're asking for is obviously stuff that may not be publicly available. That being said, think about what you're asking for and look here (http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=64921&an=0&page=20#64921).
You can also sign up at lightfighter.net and read a similar thread in their Secondary Weapons forum but be warned: follow the instructions in the registration email to the letter and listen much, talk little.
Forgot the dash in the link lebowski. Anyone who wants to read it try this link (http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=64921&an=0&page=20#64921).
Littlelebowski
04-20-10, 14:12
Thanks, man. Fixing my link as well.
I'm too tired right now to go into detail, and I'd be re-writing a bunch of stuff from 10-8 and Lightfighter anyway.
Short answer;
Excessive slide velocity.
The new gen 4 guns have a beefed up recoil system. For what reason you may ask? Perhaps to slow the slide down enough for the magazine to keep up?
Agencies off the top of my head that have dumped the G22 to get guns that run include Milwaukee, Topeka, Indiana State Police, Detroit. There are more, some I can't mention.
The list of agencies that have issues still to this day are far greater. It pains me how much BS and politics come into play on an officer safety issue like having pistols that actually frakkin work.
I also note that folks you may have heard of, like our esteemed Doc, Pat Rogers, Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers have all told me that they recommend folks avoid Glock .40s if they have any choice in the matter.
I should note that I ain't a Glock hater, I carry one or two daily, and I own seven of them right now. I used to own five Glock .40s back before our troubles.
Tracker,
PM me dude.
Same problems with the Gen 3 Glock 22s when they started attaching the lights at Oklahoma City Police Dept.
Glock finally traded them model 17s, 21s and 21SFs.
We purchased 100+ glock 22's with M3Xs attached. During the transition everyone had fail to feeds. Luckily one of our guys is a competition shooter and tried some of his ISMI 14 coil magazine springs. The springs solved the issue, but reduced the capacity to 14 rounds in the mag. Glock failed to help solve the problem or compensate us for the springs.
I still think my glock 17 is one of the best guns ever made. It really is only lacking a beavertail (solved by Crimson Traces LG417 grips). I love shooting it and I shoot it more than any of my other guns. I'm very tempted to get gen 4 glock to test out.
I'm playing with an M&P .45 right now to see if it is a solid option down the road, but the 17 is still my favorite. When the APEX kits come back in stock the M&P may win me over.
Dave James
04-21-10, 18:21
Do the problems with the 40 cal, all so apply to the same framed model in 357sig??
I've carried 3 Glocks in .40 as duty weapons over a number of years. I never had any issue with one exception. A 2nd Gen G22 would not feed Golden Saber 180 gr.
I have an old G22 (circa 1991), a newer G27 and newer G35. Im running a 20# wolff recoil spring in the G35 w/TLR3 light. It's been very reliable in this configuration. 0 issues with a wide variety of 165 and 180 ammo (gold dot, hst, ranger, etc) . I'm thinking about running a 20# spring in my G22 also even though it doesn't have a light on it. Slide velocity is too high with the stock spring. I think a vast majority of .40 glock issues can be resolved with a 20# spring and the latest gen mags w/11 coil spring & #8 follower. I think this is why the gen 4 has a heavier, dual recoil spring. The G22 slide weighs the same as the slide on my duty sig P226 40 (within 1 gram) and the sig has a 20# spring (vs 15# for 9mm p226). Based upon sig's specs plus feedback from others on 10-8forums, I chose the 20# spring and Im convinced this is the way to go. My G35 slide weighs 10% more than the G22 slide which is directionally better for slide velocity. I think this is why fewer G35 owners complain about nosedown FTF issues with a weapon light. By the way, I load them with 180gr HST/Ranger Tseries or 165gr Ranger Tseries. My personally owned duty sig is loaded w/165gr gold dot per policy.
TheSmiter1
04-21-10, 21:42
I have an old G22 (circa 1991), a newer G27 and newer G35. Im running a 20# wolff recoil spring in the G35 w/TLR3 light. It's been very reliable in this configuration. 0 issues with a wide variety of 165 and 180 ammo (gold dot, hst, ranger, etc) . I'm thinking about running a 20# spring in my G22 also even though it doesn't have a light on it. Slide velocity is too high with the stock spring. I think a vast majority of .40 glock issues can be resolved with a 20# spring and the latest gen mags w/11 coil spring & #8 follower. I think this is why the gen 4 has a heavier, dual recoil spring. The G22 slide weighs the same as the slide on my duty sig P226 40 (within 1 gram) and the sig has a 20# spring (vs 15# for 9mm p226). Based upon sig's specs plus feedback from others on 10-8forums, I chose the 20# spring and Im convinced this is the way to go. My G35 slide weighs 10% more than the G22 slide which is directionally better for slide velocity. I think this is why fewer G35 owners complain about nosedown FTF issues with a weapon light. By the way, I load them with 180gr HST/Ranger Tseries or 165gr Ranger Tseries. My personally owned duty sig is loaded w/165gr gold dot per policy.
So would it really have been that freaking hard for Glock to either make the recoil spring for the .40s heavier? Or do what Sig did, and make the slide heavier? It says on Wikipedia that Sig made the slide heavier specifically to cope with the .357 sig and .40s&w.
Is Glock really so opposed to change that they produced an ill-equiped weapon for 15 years that could have easily been modified to run properly?
Can you put aftermarket recoil springs on the Glock polymer guide rod? I wonder if a 20lb and 22lb spring (G22&G23) would solve issues with the 3rd Gens.
So would it really have been that freaking hard for Glock to either make the recoil spring for the .40s heavier? Or do what Sig did, and make the slide heavier? It says on Wikipedia that Sig made the slide heavier specifically to cope with the .357 sig and .40s&w.
Is Glock really so opposed to change that they produced an ill-equiped weapon for 15 years that could have easily been modified to run properly?
Can you put aftermarket recoil springs on the Glock polymer guide rod? I wonder if a 20lb and 22lb spring (G22&G23) would solve issues with the 3rd Gens.
Sig went from a stamped to a solid SS slide a while back but the SS slide weighs within 1 gram of the gen 2 G22 slide (per my measurements) as previously mentioned. Gen 4 seems to have included a dual spring/higher spring rate (anybody know what it is?). I suspect a single 20# spring, similar to sig, would have also sufficed for the gen 3 glock 40/.357 (works for me!).
Don't know why Glock doesn't have unique springs for .40/.357sig weapons like sig. In my humble opinion, anyone with a .40/.357 Glock, particularly if they run a weapon mounted light on a gen 3, should go for the wolff set up (20-22#) assuming that full-powered factory ammo is used. If you plan on running light reloads then maybe revert to a lower spring rate as needed. Neat thing is that the you can change the spring rate using the wolff noncaptured rod in less than 1 minute. Springs are $7-8.
I'm not sure if you can put an aftermarket spring on the stock guide rod but I'm not sure why you would want to go that route....for $30 bucks you can get a high-quality wolff non-captured guide rod and spring that works great and is bullet proof so to speak.
If you want to toy around with different springs, you need an aftermarket guide rod.
wow, some great info.
I have a G22 that I have had for ten years and have run a few thousand rounds through. No issues but have never used a light on it. I just recently got a TLR-2 that may see some time on it so I think I may upgrade to the Wollf spring. Should I just get the heavier spring or should I see if I have issues first.
Also recently got a G27 to CC and I really like it so far. Only a few hundred rounds through it but also no issues, knock on wood.
ProjectCamaro
04-22-10, 17:34
Glock 22 for work.
I have a G22 that I have had for ten years and have run a few thousand rounds through. No issues but have never used a light on it. I just recently got a TLR-2 that may see some time on it so I think I may upgrade to the Wollf spring. Should I just get the heavier spring or should I see if I have issues first.
Also recently got a G27 to CC and I really like it so far. Only a few hundred rounds through it but also no issues, knock on wood.
I recommend not putting the TRL on your reliable G22.
No need to knock on wood. Your G27 will serve you well.
i had a g23 purchased in 2001. had 3000rds thru it and it was still going strong. now i want a 19 for carry.
TheSmiter1
04-23-10, 00:23
Sig went from a stamped to a solid SS slide a while back but the SS slide weighs within 1 gram of the gen 2 G22 slide (per my measurements) as previously mentioned. Gen 4 seems to have included a dual spring/higher spring rate (anybody know what it is?). I suspect a single 20# spring, similar to sig, would have also sufficed for the gen 3 glock 40/.357 (works for me!).
Don't know why Glock doesn't have unique springs for .40/.357sig weapons like sig. In my humble opinion, anyone with a .40/.357 Glock, particularly if they run a weapon mounted light on a gen 3, should go for the wolff set up (20-22#) assuming that full-powered factory ammo is used. If you plan on running light reloads then maybe revert to a lower spring rate as needed. Neat thing is that the you can change the spring rate using the wolff noncaptured rod in less than 1 minute. Springs are $7-8.
I'm not sure if you can put an aftermarket spring on the stock guide rod but I'm not sure why you would want to go that route....for $30 bucks you can get a high-quality wolff non-captured guide rod and spring that works great and is bullet proof so to speak.
I've heard from others that the steel guide rod can mess with the frame flex. I'd think that most of the problems that occur from aftermarket guide rods are in calibers other than .40s&w or .357 sig, as those are the only ones that need heavier springs.
How long do the springs last? More than the 2-3k that the Glock spring lasts, I hope? I wonder if this would have been a viable solution for officers with malfunctioning weapons. I don't think they're allowed to use aftermarket parts though, are they?
A slightly heavier spring should last longer even if it loses force over time at the same rate since it's not marginal to begin with.
Departments generally won't swap parts like that for liability reasons. My glocks are not duty weapons so im good to go. If I was able to carry a .40glock on duty it would be a gen4.
My BIL uses and loves his Glock 22. He is more active and more cop than anyone I know
He is much younger than I am and I respect his opinion when it comes to all things shooting.
He is the "Detective of the Year" for a department in Northern California. He was on a joint drug task force that found and removed ganja fields around the county he lives in, it involved insertion by helicopter and removing the drugs the same way. He did a lot of undercover work and carried the G22 most of the time.
His liking for his G22 has me thinking about buying one of those instead of a G20.
TheSmiter1
04-28-10, 21:59
LoL I am so confused. There are so many different opinions on these things it makes my head spin. :confused: Oh well, Gen4 is out.
I really wonder, though, why they didn't just make a heavier spring for the Glock .40 cals? It seems like such an easy fix. It made the Sig p226 work alright with .40sw.
Oh well, whatever. :D
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