ACOG -- amber or red?

[Bison]

I'm thinking about an ACOG TA33-8 for my new M&P15T. Hre is what I'm wondering: Amber or red? Do the amber ACOGs wash out in daylight? It seems like the red reticle would be easier to track. Are there advantages to one color over the other?

Thanks in advance.

[FJB]

While Trijicon claims Amber is best, my opinion and that of the Marine Corps is red. Trijicon makes a good optic, however my real preference is for an Aimpoint CompM3 or M4 with a 3X Magnifier in their Twist Mount.

S/F

[Patrick Aherne]

RED! I have used amber Compact ACOGs for the last 6-7 years on our issue patrol rifles. I looked through a friend's TA-47 with a red chevron and the difference is remarkable. Go with the red.

[Bison]

Thanks, all, for the responses. I was thinking red, myself.

Of course, I'm not jumping on the optic train quite yet. I just got my new rifle and it has been a while since I've used an open-sighted rifle. I feel the need to re-master long ranges with the open irons prior to going with glass. I'm just testing the water to see what is out there and what might suit me the best. Doing the research is half the fun (ok, shooting is WAY more fun, :D ).

[Bison]

While Trijicon claims Amber is best . . .

What is the theory behind why amber would be best? Anyone?

[Razorhunter]

I will tell you guys that IMO amber IS BY FAR the best.
I simply cannot see why anyone would say differently.

I have handled BOTH extensively, in all types of lighting conditions.
FIRST OFF, Trijicon says amber is more easily seen by the human eye, and their studies PROVED this. Call up Trijicon and they will tell you that their optical, scientific studies PROVED that the human eye sees the yellow (amber) better. Trijicon personally discussed this with me over the phone.
NOW, with that said, here is MY findings.

The amber is MUCH more easily seen MOST of the time, in a wider array of lighting conditions. There are RARE occasions, in dim light, where you might be aiming at a wheat field or something similar, where the yellow reticle doesn't stand out QUITE as well as the red reticle does. However, this is RARE, and I have found that there are MORE situations where the red is harder to see than the amber.
Here are more findings that I have noticed time and time again with my ACOGS:

-on a very bright sunny day, BOTH the amber and red are BRIGHT as hell, and you will have no problems out of either of these reticles. So basically, on a bright day, you will be happy with EITHER color, and it will simply be a matter of personal preference here.

-On an overcast day, the amber is by FAR brighter, and easier to see. The red becomes a dull, almost blood red (blackish) color, and is harder to see than the amber. Amber REALLY is best here, and this is one reason I choose amber over red.

-In the evening, in fading light, amber once again prevails and is MUCH easier to see IMO.

-In pitch dark, there is NO contest here. Amber DESTROYS red by FAR, and is MUCH easier to see. I cannot tell you HOW MANY times I've gone outside at night, in PITCH darkness (or with a little moonlight), and aimed my ACOGs at various targets. MOST of the time, I can't even see the red or if I can, it's VERY hard to see, and almost impossible to aim with any accuracy.
The amber on the other hand, is MUCH easier to see, and I could engage in combat and take out targets all night long with my amber.

I am a young guy at 28 yrs old, and my eyes are pretty good. I have no major vision problems to speak of. These are my findings, and my humble opinions.
I would venture that most guys have never even tried the amber, because it's not produced as much, and therefore most guys just go with the red.
Which brings me to my next subject, which was mentioned above.
WHY does the military (and most civilians) choose red? I think it's because red still IS good, and it's just been around more. If you think about it, Aimpoints, Eotechs and most other dot optics are red, and most people are used to that.
The military choosing red does NOT mean it's "better" than amber.
Also, IF the military chose amber, that would not mean it's "better" than red.

I personally think there are better rifles out there (I know, God forbid) than the M16/M4, but the military chose them for their primary weapon platform didn't they?

It all boils down to personal preference, BUT I will say that IF you have not seen the amber reticle, you MUST try one, as I think MANY of you will change your mind about red vs amber.
I know when I was shopping for my first ACOG, I just KNEW I was going to go with red.
That all changed when one dealer I found happened to have an amber ACOG on the shelf...
Now I special order EVERY ACOG with Amber. NO matter how long the wait.

I happen to have a TA11 w/amber reticle I'm getting ready to sell (for other reasons), and maybe someone here will wind up with it perhaps?

[flanker]

I am using the red with my ACOG TA-11F and it's worked great for my eyes.

[MaceWindu]

I am using the red with my ACOG TA-11F and it's worked great for my eyes.


+1! TA47R-2...Compact 2X


Mace

[edwin907]

My experience has been that some guys, both old and young, just do not see red well at all.
One of the best shooters at the range just can't see the red numerical readout on my Leica Geovid binoculars at all in bright sunlight. Another superb shooter has difficulty with the Aimpoint M3 unless it's at one of the top 2 positions.
However, my eyes work very very well with red.
Comparing ACOGs, I could find no reason to choose amber over red, day, night, low light, overcast, various backgrounds, dark to light, light to dark. It didn't matter, red was equal or superior, for me, 100% of the time, even in pitch darkness.
And as much as I like the chevron on my TA55A and TA31F, I'll take the TA31 and TA11C donut every time for combat shooting.
I don't have a problem with the amber ACOGs, they are great, and I may even buy another one.

[Obiwan]

I have never used an ACOG with the amber reticle

But I have not been impressed with amber on any other optic

[Razorhunter]

Most other optics have SMALL, THIN lines (usually crosshair type reticles), and neither red OR amber will be easily seen. I know exactly what you mean. Those THIN ass red and amber crosshair lines are just not that bright, especially after looking at ACOG's, Eotechs and Aimpoints...

[FJB]

Paul,
Don't disagree with your statements and I have used ACOGs with both red and amber. The reason the military prefers red over amber is that amber is a more common color in nature, thus concern that in some environmental conditions amber will not contrast as well as the red.

Again, my preference is for Aimpoints as I can adjust the brightness settings for the lighting conditions. Fixed 4X power ACOGs are problematic for use inside 100 yards, esp. in the urban fight. Transitioning from bright light out side to a dark interior, as well as using the ACOG from a dark interior and engaging targets outside on a bright day, presents problems with finding the reticle.

S/F

[Razorhunter]

Fixed 4X power ACOGs are problematic for use inside 100 yards, esp. in the urban fight. Transitioning from bright light out side to a dark interior, as well as using the ACOG from a dark interior and engaging targets outside on a bright day, presents problems with finding the reticle.

S/F


Hmmm...

I have not noticed these problems. In fact, I was super impressed on how an optic actually COULD transition in situations such as this.
Granted, an ACOG is not great for door kicking and clearing rooms, but that's where a Dr Optic up top comes into play.
Anyhow, I especially have NO problem at all, being inside a dark interior room, and viewing outside on a bright day, and finding the reticle.
I realize an Aimpoint is better in many instances inside 100yds, but that's another story...
The ACOG rules at 75yds and on out to 300-400... To each his own I guess.
(this is precisely why I will soon own BOTH, and be ordering me an Aimpoint real soon!)... Love those ACOG's though!!!

[Bat Guano]

I have been running a TA45-2 (if I recall the # correctly) for about 9 months now. It is the Compact 1.5 x 24 with amber triangle. I too had been leaning toward red, for no particular reason--but got this one as it was in stock and bolted it on.

Living in the Great American Desert *everything* is brown half the year. I never had any trouble with the amber showing up; as a matter of fact it is almost too brilliant in daylight. I put a piece of electrical tape over almost all of the light-gathering tube to make it a little more distinct in normal light. It shows up very well in low light conditions until you just can't distinguish a target anymore.

The comment was made that ACOGs are a little overpowered for close urban work. That may well be true with the standard 4x but the 1.5x is extremely fast with a large FOV. I don't think an Eotech would be any better, although I don't have much experience with them. Eye relief is also much more generous than the standard ACOGs, so all in all the Compact is a very forgiving unit. Sort of a sleeper and not as well known as it probably ought to be.

Anyway, I have found the amber to work out just fine.