Kahr P380 range report

[shooter521]

I know .380 mouseguns are poo-pooed by many members here, but I thought I'd share this anyway.

As posted to the Indiana Gun Owners forum:
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http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/4_18_10/p380_ammo.jpg

I had wanted a Kahr P380 ever since the first rumors of its existence started swirling a few years ago. Once they were actually in production and I got to shoot one belonging to a fellow INGO member last year (http://ingunowners.com/forums/handguns/48871-kahr_p380_review.html), I was completely sold. I finally was able to score one for a decent price on Gunbroker (of all places!). I picked it up on Wednesday 4/14, and took it to the range today.

Break-in and test-firing were done using 4 different types of ammunition, totaling 200 rounds:

• Remington UMC 88gr JHP
• Independence 90gr FMJ
• PMC Bronze 90gr FMJ
• Russian LVE 92gr bi-metal FMJ (copper-washed steel case)

I was going to use a 5th ammunition type, Fiocchi Extrema 90gr XTP HP, but they would not feed at all. The XTP bullet is a long, sharply tapered design, and the round kept hanging up at the top of the chamber. Attempting to drop the slide via the "slingshot" method or the Kahr-recommended slide stop method made no difference. This ammo runs in my Colt Pony Pocketlite, but obviously the smaller Kahr has tighter feed geometry and doesn't like the longer bullets.

My impressions are pretty much unchanged from my earlier review. I was pleasantly surprised to find that my P380 didn't exhibit nearly as much tendency to shoot low as the one I'd fired previously. If I kept the (really low profile) sights lined up and controlled the trigger smoothly to the rear, the gun would shoot point of aim at 10 yards. I shot my best group of the afternoon with the Russian LVE ball ammo. It measures 2-5/8" center to center.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/4_18_10/p380_target.jpg

And here's the results of two magazines' worth of PMC ball:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/4_18_10/th_DSCN0500.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/4_18_10/?action=view&current=DSCN0500.flv)

I did not have any misfires, stoppages or malfunctions in 200 rounds. For part of the reliability testing, I fired 4 full magazines, each loaded with a different ammunition type, as quickly as I could get accurate hits, with no pauses in between mags. I also mixed rounds of all 4 ammunition types within single magazines, and fired them with the same boring reliability.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/4_18_10/th_DSCN0509.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/4_18_10/?action=view&current=DSCN0509.flv)

Despite being a 10-ounce pistol chambered in a somewhat-respectable caliber, the P380 is a very comfortable gun to shoot... all day comfortable, as a matter of fact! It's much like my Pony Pocketlite in this regard, and beats the pants off the Kel-Tec P3AT and Ruger LCP in the same size/weight class.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/4_18_10/shooter_p380_case.jpg

The only issue I encountered, other than the gun's inability to feed the XTP ammo, was that the floorplates on 2 of my 4 magazines were loose enough that I could remove them by hand without depressing the locking button on the bottom. :eek: This caused one magazine to spontaneously disassemble itself while I was loading it, but did not cause any issues in live fire. Should be an easy fix to crimp the sides of the floorplate so they grab the bottom of the mag body a bit tighter. Worst case, I'll send them back to Kahr with a "WTF?" note and get them replaced.

All in all, I am very pleased with the P380. It is comfortable, more than accurate enough for its intended purpose, and thus far, perfectly reliable. I am on the fence whether or not to get night sights for this gun. It shoots so well as it is, I hate to mess with it. OTOH, I am more accustomed to a 3-dot sight picture, and am a big believer that carry guns should have night sights whenever possible. We shall see.

The Kahr will be taking over pocket carry duty as soon as I can get a decent holster for it. At that point, my Colt Pony Pocketlite will probably go up for sale. I might use the proceeds to buy a second P380...

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/4_18_10/P380_dirty.jpg
Rode hard, put away dirty...

[Pappabear]

thanks for the report

[HeadHunter]

That's a good review. Interesting that yours didn't seem to require any breakin period.

[SHIVAN]

It's not just a phenomenon of people here not liking the .380, it's typically viewed as a barely adequate caliber for defensive encounters. If all I had was a .380, I would carry it. If all I could conceal was a .380, I would carry it. Thing is, you could probably also conceal a snub nose .357mag or .38 and both of those have proven reliable and effective.

An interesting note when American Rifleman did their .380 review, all the models they shot required some sort of assistance in completing their tests. I don't think a single one performed perfectly.

That gave me pause.

[MarshallDodge]

Nice review.


An interesting note when American Rifleman did their .380 review, all the models they shot required some sort of assistance in completing their tests. I don't think a single one performed perfectly.

That gave me pause.
I noticed that as well.

Any of these small guns are more finicky than the full size guns. Your ammo choice is just a little more limited.

[Tennvol12345]

The slightly bigger PM9 is a great option for pocket carry.

[DocH]

Is the 380 much smaller than the PM9? As small as the Ruger?

[woody d]

thanks for the review. all these new .380 pistols must be the reason why its so hard to find a box of .380 shells :D

[shooter521]

Is the 380 much smaller than the PM9? As small as the Ruger?

Yes and sort-of; the P380 is shorter in the nose but a little longer in the grip than the P3AT/LCP.

http://www.kahr.com/imgs/mdtl_p3833vspm9.jpg

http://www.kahr.com/imgs/mdtl_p3833vsp3at.jpg

[rljatl]

I've been wanting a Kahr P9. Any experience or opinions on it?

[shooter521]

I've been wanting a Kahr P9. Any experience or opinions on it?

I own one, and carry it frequently. Thin, lightweight, reliable, and a respectable caliber. The only real hitch with any Kahr is the DAO trigger, which is manageable, but different from the Glocks I'm used to. Regular practice is a must, IMO. My wife has a K9 (same size as the P9, but all steel) and it's a helluva shooter.

[WillBrink]

It's not just a phenomenon of people here not liking the .380, it's typically viewed as a barely adequate caliber for defensive encounters. If all I had was a .380, I would carry it. If all I could conceal was a .380, I would carry it. Thing is, you could probably also conceal a snub nose .357mag or .38 and both of those have proven reliable and effective.
.

But Kahrs own 9mm offerings are VERY small, so I don't see any reason for their .380, as like you, if I had to carry a .380 I would, but not by preference. I have a Kahr MK9 and it's tiny, easy to CCW, dead reliable, very accurate. I also have the K40, which considering the rnd it fires, is also very small, and amazingly low recoil.

When I can't CCW the commander 1911 (which is rare) I opt for one of the Kahrs, in 9mm or .40.

[rljatl]

I own one, and carry it frequently. Thin, lightweight, reliable, and a respectable caliber. The only real hitch with any Kahr is the DAO trigger, which is manageable, but different from the Glocks I'm used to. Regular practice is a must, IMO. My wife has a K9 (same size as the P9, but all steel) and it's a helluva shooter.

Then would you recommend the K9 over the P9 for a CCW?

[SmokeJumper]

Great review, thanks for sharing it. It was well done due to answering questions I was curious about in shooting and size comparisons. It would make a good little BUG as a pocket gun. But since I have a PM9, I just couldn't justify the price on it, but that's ok with me.

[DocH]

shooter521,thanks for the photo comparisons with the PM9 and Kel Tec. Very helpful.

[matty]

Thanks for the great review and the video. I've been looking at getting a Kahr P380 to replace a Kel-Tec P3AT I recently sold. I just could never shoot it comfortably and never really trusted it.

I have been having a hard time getting local dealers to get me one. They keep telling me they are on backorder. Saw one at a gunshow 2weeks ago for $529 (lowest price I've seen). I passed on it as I was low on cash. Plus the sales tax 6%, CC fee 3% and the $35 transfer made it not that great of a deal.

I will be going to the SAR Show East with some disposable income and hope to pick one up.

[shooter521]

Then would you recommend the K9 over the P9 for a CCW?

Not necessarily. The K9 is easier to shoot than the P9 by virtue of its weight; that same weight also makes it less comfortable to carry.

To put things in perspective, a K9 with an empty mag in place weighs 25 ounces. That's heavier than a Glock 19, which carries twice as much ammo. The P9 weighs 17 ounces.



I have been having a hard time getting local dealers to get me one. They keep telling me they are on backorder. Saw one at a gunshow 2weeks ago for $529 (lowest price I've seen).

They are all over Gunbroker, and prices are starting to soften considerably. I paid $535 for mine.

[shooter521]

Just a quick update - put another 150 rounds through the gun today, with no issues of any kind. Crimping the mag floorplates corrected the looseness reported in the OP. Gun has had a total of 350 rounds through it, and I am considering it "broken in". It's starting to get a little dirty, but I don't plan to clean it until I have to, or until I decided to start carrying it. I have a kydex pocket holster on order from http://www.alabamaholster.com.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/5_1_10/p380_close.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/5_1_10/shooter_p380_brass.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/5_1_10/th_DSCN0539.jpg (http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/5_1_10/?action=view&current=DSCN0539.flv)

[shooter521]

Update:

Went to the range with a couple buddies yesterday, and after getting through our pistol drills, we played around with the P380 a bit more. To my surprise, we were able to hit Pepper Poppers with some regularity at 35 yards, consistently at 25 yards, and with 100% frequency at 15 yards. Not bad for a pocket pistol, and way better than I can do with my Pony Pocketlite. I am becoming seriously smitten with this little gun. The P380 now has 435 rounds through it with zero malfunctions and no cleaning. I will probably do one more update at the 500 round mark.

A few more pics:
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/5_16_10/DSCN0614.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/5_16_10/mark_p380_barricade.jpg

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/5_16_10/jason_p380_steel.jpg

[shooter521]

Final(?) update - a bit overdue on this one.

I went to the range on June 18 and put another 115 rounds through the P380, bringing its total up to 550 since being placed into service. I had (3) premature lockbacks while shooting Winchester FMJ ammo and (1) failure to feed with Federal Hydra-Shok JHP. Gun had not been cleaned (like, ever), and was filthy.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/range%20trips/7_5_10/DSCN2115.jpg

Got the gun home, tore it down and cleaned it. Next day, my kydex pocket pistol from Alabama Holster arrived, and I started carrying the gun on a regular basis.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i188/shooter521/misc%20guns/alabama_bird.jpg

I put another few mags' worth (49 rounds) through the gun on July 5, with no further malfunctions.

[Beachboy]

Thanks for the detailed review. I've been considering one of these for my next pocket pistol. I've owned both the K9 and the P9 and currently have a CW40, so I'm somewhat familiar with the Kahr break-in and their DAO trigger system.