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Is a Mauser a good rifle to turn into a tac driver. And if so how much do you think it would cost:
Is a Mauser a good rifle to turn into a tac driver. And if so how much do you think it would cost:
You said tack driver and tacks are small so, I will say it does not make good sense to waste money on a system that will require a lot of gunsmith time and money. Look at some of the Remington rifle's especially the Tactical line. Those do shoot.
Yes that is what I am doing I just had this thing laging around and wanted to know if it was worth throwing money at.
I'm looking at the Rem Mod 700SPS compact in 308.I'm hoping for a very accurate hunting rifle and something i can just enjoy playing with at the range and learning how to shoot long range.
Thank you for your imput, I kinda thought it was a silly question to begin with. Any other suggestions are appreciated.
Mausers are one of the best platforms out there to build on. I prefer their controlled feeding vs the push feed of a 700.
Precision riflemen have told me that the long lock time of the Mauser action will always limit its ability to run with the likes of a Rem 700 action. I do not know that to be true personally.
However, good pal of mine sunk several thousand dollars to build his ultimate work of art long range rifle on a 98 action and the groups he or I can shoot with it are embarrassing. My son's Bushmaster carbine will out group it at 100 yards. That's just one rifle of course.
Precision riflemen have told me that the long lock time of the Mauser action will always limit its ability to run with the likes of a Rem 700 action. I do not know that to be true personally.
However, good pal of mine sunk several thousand dollars to build his ultimate work of art long range rifle on a 98 action and the groups he or I can shoot with it are embarrassing. My son's Bushmaster carbine will out group it at 100 yards. That's just one rifle of course.
Poor grouping certainly is not the fault of the Mauser action. The gun either wasn't built correctly or it is shooter error. Incidentally, a Mauser action will run with any bolt action out there.
Incidentally, a Mauser action will run with any bolt action out there.
The OP said tack driver, Mauser and cost. There are rifles that balance those three factors out and it is Remington M700. You will not get a military Mauser to shooting as well as a box stock Rem M700 SPS for $600 total cost.
I do not see any Mauser actions out there "hanging" with any long or short range shooting professionals or sportsmen. If it did, then they would be using them regardless of the cost. Broad generalized statements belong on other sites not M4C.
If you want to be the intellectual apologist for Mausers, I think there are other sites dedicated to turning Turkish 1938's into benchrest rifles for clowns. Why is this here anyways in AR build? When are the dinner plate pictures comming? Am I on the OTS?
The OP said tack driver, Mauser and cost. There are rifles that balance those three factors out and it is Remington M700. You will not get a military Mauser to shooting as well as a box stock Rem M700 SPS for $600 total cost.
I do not see any Mauser actions out there "hanging" with any long or short range shooting professionals or sportsmen. If it did, then they would be using them regardless of the cost. Broad generalized statements belong on other sites not M4C.
If you want to be the intellectual apologist for Mausers, I think there are other sites dedicated to turning Turkish 1938's into benchrest rifles for clowns. Why is this here anyways in AR build? When are the dinner plate pictures comming? Am I on the OTS?
The only thing that you said here that has any basis in reality is the cost issue. Clownish statements like yours certainly shouldn't be made anywhere. I do agree that this is a strange topic for an AR build section.
The only thing that you said here that has any basis in reality is the cost issue. Clownish statements like yours certainly shouldn't be made anywhere. I do agree that this is a strange topic for an AR build section.
Sir, name the national or regional precision rifle event in the USA that has been won with a Mauser actioned rifle in past 20 years. :confused:
http://www.edbrown.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/00114.1.028178928820602859
From the Ed Brown web site:
"Since the age of the 1898 Mauser, there has been a demand for the controlled feed action. Winchester has possibly done more than anyone to promote the advantage of the controlled feed design. When hunting dangerous game, where feeding could be a life or death situation, the controlled feed design has become the choice of many professional hunters.
Of course, dangerous game guns have never required a high degree of accuracy. One does not need a half MOA accurate 458 for stopping a charging Buffalo at 15 yards.
Much like reliability has been the realm of the Mauser/Winchester controlled feed action, accuracy has been the forte of the Remington push feed design. One finds the Remington push feed design to be the choice of benchrest shooters worldwide. This is due to the extreme accuracy inherent in the round receiver push feed design.
A Mauser/Winchester type controlled feed long extractor requires the removal of a large portion of the barrel threads where the extractor must go. Removing barrel threads does not provide for the most rigid assembly. This larger receiver cut also removes precious metal inside the receiver which is detrimental to the rigidity, and thus the accuracy of the entire assembly."
Littlelebowski
04-23-10, 20:06
FN SPRs are based on the Winchester Mauser action. Good shooters, well below 1 MOA.
The OP was not talking about commercial Mauser actions or descendants. Most present day turn bolts would be considered a descendant from the Mauser. Claw extraction aside, there is more to a Mauser action than just that one visible feature. You need to include the bedding surfaces, magazine/floor plate , tang , thumb cut, stripper cut, internal collar, safety lug, claw extractor and safety to call an action a Mauser design. It helps if it says Mauser on the action.:D Even though the USA paid Mauser a royalty for the 1903, it is definitely not a Mauser.
If you're interested in a very accurate rifle, why not get one of the Howa 1500 heavy barrelled action and bed it onto quality stock? You can have quite a decent shooter for o/a $600.
Yes that is what I am doing I just had this thing laging around and wanted to know if it was worth throwing money at.
I'm looking at the Rem Mod 700SPS compact in 308.I'm hoping for a very accurate hunting rifle and something i can just enjoy playing with at the range and learning how to shoot long range.
Thank you for your imput, I kinda thought it was a silly question to begin with. Any other suggestions are appreciated.
What kind of Mauser do yo have laying around? Post some pics.If it is an original un dicked with ( sanded stock, reblued, drilled and taped receice ect) ww2 German K98 LEAVE IT ALONE. They are very collectable and worth a lot of money, depending on year, manufacturers code and condition it could be worth over 2k! If its a russian capture gun or a Turk then its only a shooter. As far as accuracey for a military k98, with my original condition ax 41 coded ww 2 k98 my best groups so far are 3/4" groups at 50yds and 1.5" at 100yds with iron sites off a sand bag, this is with yugo m75 surplus ammo. If you have an un messed with ww2 gun sell it to someone that collects them, dont alter it. The money you could make would buy a nice m700 ect.
Littlelebowski
04-25-10, 10:39
The OP was not talking about commercial Mauser actions or descendants. Most present day turn bolts would be considered a descendant from the Mauser. Claw extraction aside, there is more to a Mauser action than just that one visible feature. You need to include the bedding surfaces, magazine/floor plate , tang , thumb cut, stripper cut, internal collar, safety lug, claw extractor and safety to call an action a Mauser design. It helps if it says Mauser on the action.:D Even though the USA paid Mauser a royalty for the 1903, it is definitely not a Mauser.
I learned a lot from that post, thanks for the good info.
I have rebarreled a several Mauser actions, as well as Remington, Springfield, and others. It is a lot of fun, and some of them have been quite accurate, but it is not a good choice for a tactical rifle. If the action is good, save it for a hunting rifle. It may make a great deer rifle.
There is a huge range in the quality of Mauser 98 actions. 1930s FN, German and CZ, and the post war FN civilian actions are probably the best. There are lot of other German (and Swede '96) actions that will work with 6.5, 7mm, .30-06. But it is not a good action for .308. Stay away from all Spanish and later war-time manufacture German actions.
It is fairly easy to rebarrel a Mauser. The barrel does not need an extractor cut. If you have one of the 1950s FN civilian actions, you have a rare gem - probably the best hunting action made. Turn it into a .30-06 deer rifle. But it will already be drilled and tapped for sights, there are affordable sporter contour barrels to be had, and you can find a drop in sporter stock for $100.
If you are building a true tactical rifle, you are going to put at least $300 into a match barrel, $250-350 into 'smith work (barrel, chamber, crown, drill for scope mount, bolt, refinish, etc.) And you still need a stock. Unless you can do all the work yourself, you will never be able to get your money out of it, and the end product may disappoint you - it will probably not equal a modern rifle.
It just does not pencil out to try to make a Mauser action into a modern tactical rifle. It is cheaper to buy a Remington 700, a CZ, Howa, or FN. You can get into one of these for $600 to $1,000, depending on the details.
CDNN sells FN actions, and Brownells sells Rem 700 short actions. If you want to send one of those to GAP http://www.gaprecision.net/ or similar custom maker, you will get an even better rifle. But it will be on an action designed for the cartridge.
The 98 Mauser action was designed for 8x57mm cartridge. It can handle up to a a .30-06 (7.62 x 63mm). But it chokes on shorter cartridges. Converting a 75 year old bolt action rifle designed to shoot a long, manually fed cartridge, so to feed a higher pressure, shorter cartridge designed for a gas operated automatic rifle, is not the best idea in the world. On the other hand, Mausers do make a time-proven hunting rifle, where pinpoint accuracy is secondary to reliability.
FWIW, I purchased the FN PBR XP, 20 inch .308 from CDNN. It was under $800. I am getting under MOA at 200 yards, and expect to do better with trigger work and a better scope. It is the best deal out there at the moment. Awesome rifle for the money.
http://www.edbrown.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.cgi/00114.1.028178928820602859
From the Ed Brown web site:
Much like reliability has been the realm of the Mauser/Winchester controlled feed action, accuracy has been the forte of the Remington push feed design. One finds the Remington push feed design to be the choice of benchrest shooters worldwide. This is due to the extreme accuracy inherent in the round receiver push feed design.
A Mauser/Winchester type controlled feed long extractor requires the removal of a large portion of the barrel threads where the extractor must go. Removing barrel threads does not provide for the most rigid assembly. This larger receiver cut also removes precious metal inside the receiver which is detrimental to the rigidity, and thus the accuracy of the entire assembly."
I think it's funn that I'm being told that a round piece of tube stock, cut mostly though with short threads on the front and FOUR surface that must be machined true (recoil lug faces etc.) is more accurate than a square bottom action.
If there is any inherent problem with the Mauser, it's the cut up left lug and the small right lug. Put a push feed bolt in a Winchester, and you have a good action, especially because the failings inherent in Remington design and manufacture are not present.
For my part I have an FN SPR, a Surgeon, and I have access to an AIAW if I plan ahead. But no Remingtons.
mkmckinley
04-27-10, 14:59
To the OP. The technical and economic arguments against what your're talking about are well established and have already been summarized on this thread. Allow me to make a philosophical one.
Old milsurp guns are cool. The collectible ones especially so. Even a yugo m48 or czech vz24 has some history behind it and is interesting. When you load that gun with a stripper clip and shoot something with it through its crappy little v notch sights you're doing something that millions of soldiers experienced in the 20th century. It's almost like you're going back in time. It's even more tie if you bring a few guns from different periods or places and compare their characteristics. In my opinion, and yours may differ considerably of course, as soon as you put a scope on that rifle, sand its stock down, and add a rubber butt pad you take away from that experience; you make the gun less interesting. It's your rifle of course and you can do whatever you want with it but you may get more enjoyment if you appreciate it for what it is than if you try to turn it into something it never will be.
I've seen and shot rifles "built" off of old milsurp actions. In my experience even a mid grade rem 700 will shoot circles around an old mauser that someone dumped a bunch of smithing into.
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