View Full Version : Beretta 21A - 22 LR
the G Man !
04-20-10, 07:50
I got a used 22 -21A fired 50 rounds of Stingers no problems, fired 10 Velocitors FTE each time, I called Beretta and they said the gun should shoot regular know 22 ammo from what I have read I would say 75% of the reports recommend stingers, but if I could shoot something else I prefer to save my stingers for more meaningful purposes, what do you guys think.
Also on my new gun would it help if I just cyled the action with hammer cocked to help break in the action if so how long should it take?.
ive owned a couple of those little Berettas and both of them really needed several hundred stingers put through them before they became anywhere near reliable with standard velocity .22s. it never really mattered to me, if i ever did drop one in my pocket it had stingers in it anyway
the G Man !
04-20-10, 08:48
I just spoke to beretta they said they didn't reccomend the real powerful stuff like Stingers, they said stingers would wear the gun out to quick, they said they recommend stuff like CCI Velocitor's, I shot 10 velocitors, FTE each time.
I also just verified when my guns were made the used gun 1995, I figure it should be broken in by now but it wouldn't run on the Velocitors, New gun 2009 unfired, will shoot soon.
I just spoke to beretta they said they didn't reccomend the real powerful stuff like Stingers, they said stingers would wear the gun out to quick
that really suprises me, i must have punished the crap outta mine:D
no gun out there is going to be more ammo sensitive than a 22-I have seen guns that will only run with one or two types of ammo and refuse to run with anything else- since 22's are still fairly cheap thank god, get a box or two of assorted 22's shoot them and see what functions the gun best and stick with it.
the G Man !
04-20-10, 12:12
Has anyone had any luck with this ammo whats the pros & cons using this .22 LR Aguila Super Max 1750 fps 30 gr HP
Mine runs well with CCI Mini-Mags.
Velocitors are at their best out of a rifle. They are usually slower (heavier bullet) out of a pistol than stingers. The small 22lr pistol I have, a Walther tph definitely prefers stingers.
The Velocitors are made especially for max performance in rifle length barrels.
The one I owned worked great with Stingers and Mini Mags, also Winchester 40gr stuff.
If you gun keeps having stoppages, send it to me and I'll shoot it until it works again, may take a few years but I'm a persistent kind of guy.
BTW, that Aguila ammo from my Beretta would do this weird expand from the rear thing, the ammo fed and fired just fine but left holes in a target that looked like a .38 wadcutter.
My wife has a 21a and in my experience it really needs a clean chamber to run reliably. With a clean chamber her's runs great with just about any ammo we put through it. Again, I think the key here is the clean chamber. I have found that after 40-50 rounds it starts to give FTE problems. A couple of runs with a bore snake and its good for another box.
Currently we're running either Winchester Super X 22 HP or CCI Mini Mags. Both have proven extremely reliable.
My 21-A works 100% with cheap Wallmart 40 grain Federal lead and Aguilla Interceptors only. I fired 350 rounds of Interceptors at one sitting with no malfunctions.
This is definitely a zombie thread, but why start a new one?
I picked up a rather well used Model 21A today on the way to the range. I am kind of a sucker for little 22s and was considering an LCP or Taurus PT22 for a while now. I think I am glad I waited. The salesman (to his credit, after I made up my mind) mentioned he had one as well and recommended I try a variety of different 22 rounds to find the most reliable. I grabbed six 50 round boxes ranging from SV to Stingers and continued to the range. The pistol was mostly reliable with SV but 100% with the 2 types of HV that I tried. I had a Walther P22 once, it was far more problematic than the Beretta.
The good - it's pretty tiny, fun to shoot, and reliable.
The bad - sights are also tiny and the trigger is not great. I could not get many rounds on the target paper at 25 yards, my son could reliably keep 4-5 rounds per mag on the paper and occasionally get a round or two in the scoring rings.
I obviously need to re-blacken the sights (I did say it's well used) and practice a bit with it at closer range, but I think I am glad I picked it up and the price was OK.
Andy
I’ve had one for 30 years and do enjoy shooting it. Mine seems to like CCI Minimags best and Stingers next. Cheap ammo is OK but I tend to get occasional stovepipes with it. I can easily ring a 6” plate at 10 yards which, with the diminutive sights, seems to be what it was made for anyway. Just clean it regularly (especially if shooting cheap ammo) and lube it and you will be GTG.
They do run better after some break--in.
The .22lr will never be as reliable as a central-fire, but it can run okay once you find the ammo it likes.
Change the recoil and hammer springs every few thousand rounds for best life. Also change the firing pin spring (it is a drop safety) and firing pin retaining pin at the same time as the other springs.
If you don't, eventually, the retaining pin will break and the firing pin will try to pierce your eyeball. 1st-hand experience. (Eyepro saved my eye)
They don't make it anymore, but the .25 acp version is more reliable and holds 8+1. (One more) .25 ammo costs more but is reloadable, too. I chose to spend more on ammo for the more reliable gun. (And extra shot)
While 25 yd hits are possible it's really a 15 yd gun.
Agree w RON3 about the need to replace springs, especially the hammer spring to maintain reliability. Found out during a BUG match, thankfully not during a self defense situation.
I like it as a deep concealment gun, basically a pocket gun. Trigger pull can be improved considerably w careful polishing of working surfaces, back of front sight needs bright paint.
Not my 1st or 2nd choice for concealed carry (9mm and 380ACP), but better than nothing.
Mine will often produce bullet holes in paper showing bullets tumbling, a result of slow rotation due to low velocity/low twist rate in rifling, but don't mind as it results in more surface
area hitting target.
They do run better after some break--in.
The .22lr will never be as reliable as a central-fire, but it can run okay once you find the ammo it likes.
Change the recoil and hammer springs every few thousand rounds for best life. Also change the firing pin spring (it is a drop safety) and firing pin retaining pin at the same time as the other springs.
If you don't, eventually, the retaining pin will break and the firing pin will try to pierce your eyeball. 1st-hand experience. (Eyepro saved my eye)
They don't make it anymore, but the .25 acp version is more reliable and holds 8+1. (One more) .25 ammo costs more but is reloadable, too. I chose to spend more on ammo for the more reliable gun. (And extra shot)
While 25 yd hits are possible it's really a 15 yd gun.
I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding the 25 ACP vs 22 lr. I did not buy the 21A with the idea of relying on it for protection - I have a 380 LCP for a pocket gun.
Andy
I just wanted to give some props to the Beretta USA store. They were the least expensive place to buy magazines and grips, so I ordered both for my new-to-me Bobcat this weekend. Order shipped Monday and expected delivery is today. They also have a military discount.
My pistol's finish is pretty well worn and "beat up" (it was cheap for a reason). It honestly looks like someone carried it in pockets with keys, etc daily, as well as shooting it quite a bit and dropping it more than once (hence the grips).
I used Alumablack on the frame and it did a surprisingly decent job blackening the numerous dings. Much better results than I have seen on AR lowers.
I also cold blued the slide and barrel with the expected results - a bit mottled and a more charcoal than black.
I don't plan to treat it gently or show it off much, so I am fine with the look. Cold blue is really better for touch ups and sights, of course.
Andy
I put wood Tomcat grips on my 21A which are noticeably fatter than the original plastic ones (also less cracked) and picked up 3 new magazines from Beretta when I ordered the grips.
I took the pistol to the range again yesterday with a good assortment of ammunition and a 22 cal. bore brush. It ran 98% through 300 rounds of CCI mini mags and Aquila copper plated HV ammo, using the new and original mags. 28 or so rounds of CCI Stinger was not an issue. Federal Champion seconds were a bust, 100% fail to cycle. It had a couple rounds which did not fire on DA, but popped off when I pulled the trigger again. I would brush out the barrel whenever I felt resistance pushing a round into the barrel, so the chamber never had a chance to get crudded up. FWIW, a boresnake did not do as well at cleaning the chamber.
The only issue I had was accuracy, or the lack of it. Maybe it's the pistol, maybe it's me, but I could not keep a magazine (7 rds) in a 6 inch group at 10 yards. It's pretty discouraging because I have no need or desire to use it for self defense; if I cannot hit a soda can reliably at 10 or so yards, I won't really get much use out of it.
It is surprisingly natural to insert a magazine and then pop the barrel open to drop a round in. I found myself thumbing back the hammer and holding it while applying the safety with the other hand, which sounds more complicated than it is. It is also reasonable to just fire the first round DA, except... The DA hammer travel is approximately 2/3 the distance of SA and I had 2 failures to fire on DA, zero with SA. Pulling the trigger again worked on both "no fires".
I was very happy to find the pistol reliable. Now if I can just get to the point I can hit something:)
Andy
P.S. I also gripped the pistol too high and got my thumb knuckle in the slide path numerous times, moderately uncomfortable but no harm done.
It can be much more accurate if the so called sights are improved. I added white paint to the rear of the sliver that is the front sight so its more noticeable. Also added a tiny dot w tip of toothpick on each side of notch in rear of slide, that serves as the rear sight. Lure paint from a fishing supply store worked for me.
No more light strikes after I replaced the springs. Polishing friction points in hammer and trigger bar improved trigger pull in SA and DA.
As much as I like and carry Federal SD centerfire ammo their .22lr plinking ammo stinks- last time I used it I had FTF and squibs. To Federal’s credit I emailed them about the problem and they sent me a shipping label, scheduled UPS to pick it up and refunded my money.
Back to the 21A- the diminutive sights do take a little getting used to and you really have to concentrate on steadying the pistol while squeezing the trigger but consistent hits at 10 yards is very doable.
ETA- not sure if you noticed but there is a 1/2 or more like a 1/4 cock position for the hammer. This is so the hammer is not resting on the firing pin while carrying.
As much as I like and carry Federal SD centerfire ammo their .22lr plinking ammo stinks- last time I used it I had FTF and squibs. To Federal’s credit I emailed them about the problem and they sent me a shipping label, scheduled UPS to pick it up and refunded my money.
Back to the 21A- the diminutive sights do take a little getting used to and you really have to concentrate on steadying the pistol while squeezing the trigger but consistent hits at 10 yards is very doable.
ETA- not sure if you noticed but there is a 1/2 or more like a 1/4 cock position for the hammer. This is so the hammer is not resting on the firing pin while carrying.
My Beretta .25 m950's and M21A's are accurate.
You're wrong about the hammer. It never rests on the firing pin. It rests on the slide. The firing pin is kept rearward by a spring.
Thus, when the hammer is fully down & gun dropped on muzzle, the firing pin spring will prevent the firing pin from flying forward and striking the primer.
If the gun is dropped on the hammer, the hammer will transfer that force to the back of the slide, not the firing pin.
The gun is safest to carry hammer down.
The half-cock position exists in case one decided to cock the hammer manually and their thumb slips off. Also in case the gun is dropped while cocked and the sear slips, hopefully the h half-cock notch will catch it.
The manual safety is only a trigger block. They do not have a passive firing pin disconnector like most pistols do. Even so, they are pretty darn safe.
My Beretta .25 m950's and M21A's are accurate.
You're wrong about the hammer. It never rests on the firing pin. It rests on the slide. The firing pin is kept rearward by a spring.
Thus, when the hammer is fully down & gun dropped on muzzle, the firing pin spring will prevent the firing pin from flying forward and striking the primer.
If the gun is dropped on the hammer, the hammer will transfer that force to the back of the slide, not the firing pin.
The gun is safest to carry hammer down.
The half-cock position exists in case one decided to cock the hammer manually and their thumb slips off. Also in case the gun is dropped while cocked and the sear slips, hopefully the h half-cock notch will catch it.
The manual safety is only a trigger block. They do not have a passive firing pin disconnector like most pistols do. Even so, they are pretty darn safe.
I stand corrected. I still have the 30 year old box and manual so I looked it up and yes, the half-notch is not for carrying so not sure what made me think that.
My pistol's finish is pretty well worn and "beat up" (it was cheap for a reason). It honestly looks like someone carried it in pockets with keys, etc daily, as well as shooting it quite a bit and dropping it more than once (hence the grips).
Andy
You probably have already checked this, but take a good magnifying glass and check the muzzle. Based on your description it might need a little touch up on the crown??
You probably have already checked this, but take a good magnifying glass and check the muzzle. Based on your description it might need a little touch up on the crown??
That's a good idea.
You probably have already checked this, but take a good magnifying glass and check the muzzle. Based on your description it might need a little touch up on the crown??
I will look at it under magnification today.
Andy
The crown looked fine to me, but not terribly smooth from the factory. I polished it up with a brass screw and abrasive. Took it to the range today, but the shorter range positions were full up, so no real group shooting. I can scare a 6" plate at 50 yards with it, even hit it a couple of times every 2 magazines. No malfunctions out of 100 or so rounds, and it is a lot of fun to shoot.
Andy
The crown looked fine to me, but not terribly smooth from the factory. I polished it up with a brass screw and abrasive. Took it to the range today, but the shorter range positions were full up, so no real group shooting. I can scare a 6" plate at 50 yards with it, even hit it a couple of times every 2 magazines. No malfunctions out of 100 or so rounds, and it is a lot of fun to shoot.
Andy
Cool.
I fired an M21a .25 from clean until I got a malfunction. It was at about round 275. I got another shortly afterwards. The next trip, after cleaning, it ran fine.
Gotta keep the mags clean & dry, too.
Maglula .22 loader works great. So does having lots of mags.
Cool.
I fired an M21a .25 from clean until I got a malfunction. It was at about round 275. I got another shortly afterwards. The next trip, after cleaning, it ran fine.
Gotta keep the mags clean & dry, too.
Maglula .22 loader works great. So does having lots of mags.
I bought 3 more mags from Beretta, definitely make range time more enjoyable. I would guess 150-200 rounds is where my 21a needs a quick clean to prevent issues.
I installed Beretta walnut Tomcat grips on my pistol and just finished shaping and gluing in a spacer on the right grip. The trigger bar slot was twice as deep as needed, at least on a 21a, and causes multiple problems. Its not the most elegant repair job, but not too Bubba.
Groups were in the EDIT 6-8" range at 10 yards, probably more indicative of my abilities than the pistols.
Andy
Did you notice any oval holes in paper targets? I think slow twist and low velocity explain why mine does this frequently w standard velocity ammo. Carry stingers in it, as pocket gun.
Did you notice any oval holes in paper targets? I think slow twist and low velocity explain why mine does this frequently w standard velocity ammo. Carry stingers in it, as pocket gun.
No evidence of tumbling. Other users report acceptable accuracy, I honestly think a lot of my issues with the 21a lie in the size of the pistol - it's a struggle to curl my finger far enough to press the trigger while trying to keep the web of my hand below the slide :) But, its decently reliable and quite fun to shoot.
I read a lot of recommendations for Stingers or Velocitors in the 21a. I consider mine an interesting plinker, so even reliable standard velocity rounds are fine for me.
Andy
Just an update. I picked up a very lightly used parts kit 21a and replaced the slide and barrel, along with some other parts, on mine. Probably not the smartest investment I have made considering the rebate Beretta is currently offering, but I digress.
Groups are much better, 2-2.5" at 10 yards compared to 6-8". It also shoots to point of aim at that range with Armscor HV HP ammo. It is reliable with the Armscor, as well as Mini Mag and Blazer HV rounds.
It's not a target pistol and I would not consider it a serious defensive pistol, but at least it shoots well enough for casual plinking now.
Andy
My new Beretta M21a "Ghost Buster" is the only .22lr I own. It's not broken in yet. (Needs about 250 rds) but it rarely got through a magazine without a stoppage on the one range trip it's had.
My broken-in M21 .25's and 950 .25 run great.
My .22 also shoots left. I used CCI mini mag, Aguila high velocity 40 gr and hotter ones that are like CCI velocitor, which I also tried. It had jams with all of them.
But like I said, not broken in yet.
Those hot Aguila and Velocitor 40 gr loads were impressive though, averaging about 950-975 fps with some over 1000 fps.
A warm .25 fmj 50 gr can run about 875 fps safely. I did load some that hit 1000 fps but that was a mistake and I'm lucky I didn't hurt the gun or myself.
I've had Hornady XTP 35 gr factory loads show over 1k fps, too.
Took my Bobcat Covert to the range yesterday… zeroed the CT grips. Gun shot good, but didn’t realize how much gas came back with it.
I picked up 4 Beretta magazines. Loaded them up, but one wouldn’t insert into the frame. The screw that keeps the follower in is too long. Head touched one edge of the magazine well, bottom of screw touches the other edge.
Confirmed it was a .22 magazine. All 4 came in Beretta packaging.
Shot Beretta an email, saying I would like a new magazine for replacement. We will see.
My 21 with laser grips and threaded barrel is only happy suppressed.
Nothing else.
It will function without a can but it's dicey unless heavily oiled.
Sent from my SM-G988U1 using Tapatalk
I have not tried Stingers, but so far my 21a is pretty reliable with MiniMags, Blazers, and Armscor HV. Velocitors were a hard fail. I loaded a mag with CCI Quiet (not paying attention) once, that was fun :rolleyes:
I run a brush through the barrel after 100 rounds or so.
Various cheap bulk HV and all SV ammo has failed to run reliably. Blazer is not really pricy or hard to find, at least here. I am pleased with the Armscor, it was a little cheaper and seemed to shoot a bit more accurately than the CCI.
Accuracy is relative in a tiny pistol with tiny sights, of course. It is a fun little pistol to shoot and I am content using it as a plinker. I have more accurate 22 pistols and a .380 LCP if I need a small defensive gun.
Andy
I've had about 5 types of ammo not run well, including Velocitors and the Aguila equivalent.
The one that hasn't had a stoppage is Aguila 40 gr copper coated round nose HV.
I've had a couple duds, too, but not with the Aguila.
It just reminds me why I sold all my .22's. Then i got this one and it's back to clearing malfs and duds.
.22 rimfire is trash.
When my Beretta .25 acp barrel returns to me threaded I'm going to get a can for it. Then I'll sell this .22 and be happy not having to fiddle with .22.
The tip-up barrel is nice for single loading Longs and Shorts, though. And I did. Drop in, fire it DA, flip up barrel & case flies out (until dirty?) drop in another, repeat.
I might keep it just for that.
I need more Shorts! If they don't key-hole or anything might be good through a can!
If I ever consider needing a .22 rimfire to hunt with I'll get a single shot. Then I can shoot Longs and Shorts, too.
pedropcola
10-24-23, 16:22
Bobcats are funny. My Inox one is pretty reliable. My blued one chokes on a regular basis. I found a recipe that pretty much work. Feed it only Minimags, bore snake it every 50 rounds, pinch the magazine feed lips (slightly) to avoid nose high feeds. Do all that and it is reliable. Ish. I would never trust this for anything important unless it was my only option.
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