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C4IGrant
04-20-10, 11:33
In my county (and the surrounding counties), there is a huge lack of training options available. While everyone has their CCW (or is getting it), there is nothing else available for them to grow as a defensive shooter.

Because of this, Sgt. Watson of the Tuscarawas County S.O. and myself have started to teach Defensive pistol, carbine, shotgun and AK at the Tusco Rifle Club (http://www.tuscorifle.org/).

Yesterday was our first class (Defensive Pistol). We had about 26 shooters come out for the free training.

After the safety brief and a short discussion on our backgrounds, we got right into the drills.

Because of the limited time (two hours), we started off with Larry Vickers "ball and dummy" drill. We are able to cover the first two stages of this drill and could really see the eyes opening of new shooters and old shooters alike. Some never realized that they had a flinch as bad as they did. :D

We also covered grip, stance and weight balance. It is always amazing to me to see what people will come up with on their own. Adjusting grips and stances was a constant thing.

At the end of the training, we ran the Delta 10-10-10 drill. The purpose of which was to show them what we wanted them to be able to complete by the end of the year. Very few to none passed it, but it was another good eye opener for them.



C4


http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Tusco/DP1.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Tusco/DP1a.jpg

http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Tusco/DP1b.jpg

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http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Tusco/DP1F.jpg

rob_s
04-20-10, 11:45
Good on ya Grant!

Teaching is a rare skill, teaching well even rarer, and the willingness to do it for no personal financial gain even rarer.

David Thomas
04-20-10, 11:48
good for you. Looks like a good turn out.


Most of the locals that I call friends will not go to the range with me to learn how to shoot even if I provide them with free ammo and food.

C4IGrant
04-20-10, 12:12
Good on ya Grant!

Teaching is a rare skill, teaching well even rarer, and the willingness to do it for no personal financial gain even rarer.

Thanks. This has been a goal of mine for awhile and I finally got motivated to create a training curriculum, work with the gun club to set it up and get the members interested in it.

The feedback we received was great and everyone learned something from it.


C4

C4IGrant
04-20-10, 12:18
good for you. Looks like a good turn out.


Most of the locals that I call friends will not go to the range with me to learn how to shoot even if I provide them with free ammo and food.

I know. In this class, we had a local FireFighter and an EMT. No local LE came. :rolleyes:

I am fairly convinced that I could provide free training, food, and ammo and they wouldn't come.



C4

Irish
04-20-10, 12:36
Good on ya! Wish I lived in VA/OH, I'd definitely be there.

SeriousStudent
04-20-10, 14:38
Pretty neat! I am sure those who attended did appreciate the opportunity.

I did a Google/Bing/M4C search, and did not get any results on the "Delta 10-10-10" drill. Can you share it with us, when you have a moment?

Thank you kindly.

C4IGrant
04-20-10, 14:48
Pretty neat! I am sure those who attended did appreciate the opportunity.

I did a Google/Bing/M4C search, and did not get any results on the "Delta 10-10-10" drill. Can you share it with us, when you have a moment?

Thank you kindly.

The Delta drill is:

10rds
10yds
10 seconds

Use an NRA 25yd pistol target (with the rings numbered). You count the rings for score. Passing is 100, but if you can shoot a 90 and above, you are pretty good. I have never shot above a 97 on it (FYI).



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Jay Cunningham
04-20-10, 14:49
Good job Ben and Grant.

Shawn.L
04-20-10, 15:02
Great stuff.

ralph
04-20-10, 17:00
Grant;
I can't thank you enough, It was indeed a humbling experience.. I learned I'm nowhere near as good as I thought I was..I picked up a few things, I can't wait until the next class.Needless to say, I want/need to learn more. I will say the 10-10-10 drill caused me to reevaluate my choice of a ccw, I noticed twice during the drill I missed the trigger reset, Had this been for real, I would have been in trouble..Anyway I'm going to practice the 10-10-10 drill with my M&P9 and pit it against what I was using, (P-2000 LEM),After I got home last night, I measured the triggers on both from all the way back in the triggerguard to the reset point, and the M&P has the HK beat...badly.. ditto from the reset point to sear engagement, I figure I'll get a good idea which is better when shooting live ammo..The ruler told me plenty..

C4IGrant
04-20-10, 17:14
Grant;
I can't thank you enough, It was indeed a humbling experience.. I learned I'm nowhere near as good as I thought I was..I picked up a few things, I can't wait until the next class.Needless to say, I want/need to learn more. I will say the 10-10-10 drill caused me to reevaluate my choice of a ccw, I noticed twice during the drill I missed the trigger reset, Had this been for real, I would have been in trouble..Anyway I'm going to practice the 10-10-10 drill with my M&P9 and pit it against what I was using, (P-2000),After I got home last night, I measured the triggers on both from all the way back in the triggerguard to the reset point, and the M&P has the HK beat...badly.. ditto from the reset point to sear engagement, I figure I'll get a good idea which is better when shooting live ammo..The ruler told me plenty..


Glad you enjoyed it and learned something.

We commonly believe that we are better than we are. Shooting in groups/classes will often show you where you are in relation to where you THINK you are. This is a good thing.


C4

C4IGrant
04-20-10, 17:24
One of the things I noticed during the ball and dummy drill was that most people only know their gun and are NOT familiar with other type and brands of weapons.

For instance, I had an XD shooter coupled with an HK USP shooter. The XD shooter had ZERO idea on how to get the mag out. His partner told him that it was on the triggerguard and turned back around. I watched this guy attempt to break the triggerguard with his thumb as he pushed down on it (at the wrong spot). Even after I came up and pointed out where it was, he still spent another 2 minutes fumbling with it and eventually got it (dumping the mag on the deck).

After that mess was over, I told him to make sure to decock it before handing it back. You would have thought I was asking him to build a rocket ship right there on the range as he was NEVER going to find it. After 5 minutes of messing around with this HK, he looked back at me and said, "I think I will stick with my XD." I thought to myself, I wouldn't. ;)

Of course we had a mix of 1911's (mostly those little micro Springfield thingy's), XD's, one or two Glock's, over ten M&P's, one High-Power, one Taurus 24/7's, one Sigma, two HK's and.........wait for it......Para Warthog (which didn't run).

I think that some form of a "battlefield pick-up" drill will be happening at a later class so people can learn about other weapon platforms.


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ralph
04-20-10, 17:54
Battlefield pickup drill?? This ought to be a hoot...:D

SeriousStudent
04-20-10, 18:54
Thanks for the info on the drill, Grant. I will give that a try.

I really do like the ball and dummy drill. El Snatcho - he taunts me. ;)

Jay Cunningham
04-20-10, 19:25
Did all of the Glocks break? Did you hand out complimentary M&Ps when they did?

C4IGrant
04-20-10, 19:34
Did all of the Glocks break? Did you hand out complimentary M&Ps when they did?

No, but they also only shot 15rds and didn't have any lights attached to them. :D


C4

1911pro
04-20-10, 21:19
Wish I could have made it out. I am still hoping you do a Saturday class.

orionz06
04-20-10, 22:04
Pretty impressive and they are some very fortunate people.

C4IGrant
04-20-10, 22:31
Wish I could have made it out. I am still hoping you do a Saturday class.

Carbine is next (4/30/10) 5-7.



C4

1911pro
04-21-10, 00:11
Carbine is next (4/30/10) 5-7.



C4

I cannot make the Friday class, but I look forward to seeing you Saturday in Rogers.

C4IGrant
04-21-10, 09:03
I cannot make the Friday class, but I look forward to seeing you Saturday in Rogers.

Sounds good.


C4

AR-15Tom
04-22-10, 20:19
X2 on the Saturday class. I would like to attend during the week but can't because it conflicts with my work schedule.

oakmax
04-24-10, 16:52
Looks like fun

huklbrry
04-26-10, 21:32
Grant, I was looking forward to working with you guys in Rogers this weekend but my babysitter flaked out on me. I followed the link to the club where you are offering these classes and was unable to locate any of the classes on the calender. Besides the April 30th carbine class, is there confirmation on any others? (pistol, carbine,shotgun)
Thanks,
Brad

C4IGrant
04-26-10, 21:37
Grant, I was looking forward to working with you guys in Rogers this weekend but my babysitter flaked out on me. I followed the link to the club where you are offering these classes and was unable to locate any of the classes on the calender. Besides the April 30th carbine class, is there confirmation on any others? (pistol, carbine,shotgun)
Thanks,
Brad

Right now, just doing the carbine. May 8th will be next pistol. I will tell you that it is first come, first served (as we only have 24 slots).

C4

mnagant762
05-01-10, 01:37
I really think you need to move to south central PA :D I would love it if someone around here offered something like this.

BVickery
05-01-10, 02:58
I think that some form of a "battlefield pick-up" drill will be happening at a later class so people can learn about other weapon platforms.
C4

Maybe film that part, could be funny in a way. And I am sure if filmed for me for a battlefield pickup I'd make a few people chuckle.

And wish I could take part of this basic class Grant. Keep up the great work.

macnamara
05-04-10, 08:37
I really think you need to move to south central PA :D I would love it if someone around here offered something like this.

Just what Mnagant said! I'd love to take part in something like this.

C4IGrant
05-04-10, 09:23
Just what Mnagant said! I'd love to take part in something like this.

You are more than welcome too. Also make sure to check out the regional training forum. We just had a be 2 day outing where we and TK taught pistol and carbine.



C4

macnamara
05-04-10, 09:31
If you're talking about he one on the 8th, I sadly can't make it.

I'm subscribed to the PA/OH/WV Study Group, and will keep my eyes peeled for the next available event.

jasonb
05-08-10, 12:10
Todays weather is nasty, but I'm all packed up and ready to go.





That was fun. I think it was better instruction than I get at work. Thank you Grant and Sgt. Watson.

landrvrnut22
05-12-10, 22:42
I wish I had saw this sooner, I would have been able to attend at least one of each for pistol and carbine. I am really hoping to get some more formal training, but money is a bit tight. Let me know when you do the next one.

Grant, GTA is starting up tomorrow. There is alot of interesting things happening this year.

I subscribed to this forum, so I can stay up to date now.

MarshallDodge
05-12-10, 23:13
Good stuff Grant!

We have been doing a similar thing here in Utah. My wife started doing a class for the ladies once a month. Just a basic no-charge class to get ladies familiar with their gun or a hands-on experience for those who have never shot before. When the husbands and guy friends wanted to shoot we added a time slot for them.

It has definitely been an eye opener for quite a few folks in our group as well. We have seen more "user failures" than gun issues and you notice that those that come back usually have better/different gear. Most of the group is very familar with hanging up a target and shooting slow fire. When the drills start, things like drawing from the holster or shooting on the move are very foreign. I guess we were all there at one time, right? ;)

We try to stay as low speed as possible and then suggest them to check out some of the more advanced classes in the area. Recently four of the students from our group "graduated" by taking one of the advanced classes a few weeks ago. :D

Decon
05-12-10, 23:21
Grant,

I realize you don't have anything scheduled as of now, but do you need to be a member of the range to attend these trainings.

Thanks
D

jasonb
05-13-10, 02:07
Grant,

I realize you don't have anything scheduled as of now, but do you need to be a member of the range to attend these trainings.

Thanks
D

It's $10 for non-members.

C4IGrant
05-13-10, 09:12
Good stuff Grant!

We have been doing a similar thing here in Utah. My wife started doing a class for the ladies once a month. Just a basic no-charge class to get ladies familiar with their gun or a hands-on experience for those who have never shot before. When the husbands and guy friends wanted to shoot we added a time slot for them.

It has definitely been an eye opener for quite a few folks in our group as well. We have seen more "user failures" than gun issues and you notice that those that come back usually have better/different gear. Most of the group is very familar with hanging up a target and shooting slow fire. When the drills start, things like drawing from the holster or shooting on the move are very foreign. I guess we were all there at one time, right? ;)

We try to stay as low speed as possible and then suggest them to check out some of the more advanced classes in the area. Recently four of the students from our group "graduated" by taking one of the advanced classes a few weeks ago. :D

I stay about 1.5 miles away from any "commando" BS. No need to learn ANY tactics when you can't even hit the target. ;)



C4

C4IGrant
05-13-10, 09:13
Grant,

I realize you don't have anything scheduled as of now, but do you need to be a member of the range to attend these trainings.

Thanks
D


We will be doing a carbine class the end of the month and a pistol early June.

None members can join the fun, but there is a $10 dollar fee (which goes to the range).


C4

Decon
05-16-10, 22:01
We will be doing a carbine class the end of the month and a pistol early June.

None members can join the fun, but there is a $10 dollar fee (which goes to the range).


C4

Do you have dates for either session? I need a good amount of notice to get things scheduled. Also, I don't remember reading any ammo or equipment requirements.


Thanks
D

C4IGrant
05-17-10, 09:25
Do you have dates for either session? I need a good amount of notice to get things scheduled. Also, I don't remember reading any ammo or equipment requirements.


Thanks
D

Next carbine is on the 29th and you must RSVP with me.


C4

Decon
05-18-10, 13:42
Next carbine is on the 29th and you must RSVP with me.


C4

Oh, I don't actually shoot my carbine. I just buy stuff for it to make you rich. When is the psitol?

Thanks

C4IGrant
05-18-10, 14:48
Oh, I don't actually shoot my carbine. I just buy stuff for it to make you rich. When is the psitol?

Thanks

LOL, that is funny.

Come on out with your Carbine. You will have a good time.

The pistol date for June has not been set yet.


C4

Decon
05-18-10, 15:50
LOL, that is funny.

Come on out with your Carbine. You will have a good time.

The pistol date for June has not been set yet.


C4

I wish I could. It is just a bad time for me with the holiday, graduations, and such. I hope to make it to a novice class in the future.

Thanks

C4IGrant
06-14-10, 12:42
This weekend we had our 3rd Defesive Pistol Class.

We started the class with a warm up drill I came up with. Shooters start at 21ft and put 10rds (slow fire) into a 3X5 box. Then from 3yds they shoot strong hand supported and weak hand supports into 2 inch circles.

From there we covered basic and advanced Malfunction clearing. We used dummy rounds to create malfunctions in their guns while we completed 1,2,3,4,5 round drills at 10yds. This showed them whether or not what their un-planned reaction was to a gun that did not go bang.

At the end of the class, we put everyone against the shot timer to see how fast their draw stroke was.

Lots of lessons and fun had by all. Thanks again to Sgt. Watson for his assistance.




C4


http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/Training_Pics/Tusco/DP2.jpg

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Complication
07-08-10, 09:12
Any word on if the next pistol is this weekend?

C4IGrant
07-14-10, 19:40
Any word on if the next pistol is this weekend?

Next pistol is this Friday (7/16/10) 5-7.




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Complication
07-14-10, 19:41
Good stuff. I'll be there.

Complication
07-16-10, 21:44
Another good session. Came today in a concealed carry setup (button-up shirt, etc.), figured out I really had to yank up on the shirt when accessing my spare mag, should probably run a kydex mag carrier (bullets occasionally hung-up on the leather, making for some really ugly reloads), and might need something wider and less pronounced (i.e. RCS) or an IWB mag carrier to comfortably run it concealed.

Thanks again to Grant and Ben, looking forward to the next Carbine class.

C4IGrant
07-17-10, 09:04
Another good session. Came today in a concealed carry setup (button-up shirt, etc.), figured out I really had to yank up on the shirt when accessing my spare mag, should probably run a kydex mag carrier (bullets occasionally hung-up on the leather, making for some really ugly reloads), and might need something wider and less pronounced (i.e. RCS) or an IWB mag carrier to comfortably run it concealed.

Thanks again to Grant and Ben, looking forward to the next Carbine class.

Was a good class and lots of lessons learned.

Thanks for coming out.


C4

fivefivesix
12-10-10, 01:18
i know this is an old thread but thanks grant for providing somthing needed. i hope i can attend one day

C4IGrant
12-10-10, 10:11
i know this is an old thread but thanks grant for providing somthing needed. i hope i can attend one day

Thank you.



C4

joshrunkle35
12-30-10, 18:33
Do you know when you'll be having the next class?

C4IGrant
12-30-10, 18:56
Do you know when you'll be having the next class?


In April I think.


C4