View Full Version : My first time doing an SBR...
I have a few questions regarding doing my first SBR.
I first want to go the Trust route but before I create my Trust I need to engrave my lower which leads me to my first question.
I want this Trust to include my family being as if I die (lets say a mutant flying alien cow falls out of the sky and crushes me) I dont want them to be in possession of an illegal firearm. According to this article (http://arizonagunlist.com/How_to_buy_NFA_class3_weapons_with_a_revocable_living_trust_without_a_CLEO_signoff.html) and common sense would I be in my right mind to go with "(My full name-s) trust". An example with a fake name: John Billy Bobs Trust
Also should I get a lawyer to do my trust or follow the instructions of the website above?
Thank you for your time! I'm not new here but you could call me a lerker ;).
Some questions to follow later as I get farther along in the process but I want to keep it as simple as possible. One thing at a time right :D
ETA
Just to be sure the Trust name has to match the engraving yes?
Tennvol12345
04-20-10, 17:46
IMHO if you want specific things in your trust then pony up the cash to get a trust done. I asked my wife (she's a lawyer) about doing trusts and she said there could be some tax implications later down the road but didn't elaborate on what they were. Her point was to not get it done from a "box" but get someone trained to do it. It ended up being a moot point since my CLEO signs off.
I'm sure many will say that they used Willmaker to do it and you don't need to pay the big money, this may be the case....but if you want to be 100% sure it has any specific things included then use a lawyer.
You need to have your trust before you engrave your lower. What if the name you engrave is changed before your trust is signed? And as is in one of the sticky's above before you engrave you want to make sure the lower functions correctly and is free of problems.
You can use Willmaker and then have your trust reviewed by an attorney, that's what I and many others have done. IMHO though you need to do what makes you feel comfortable.
A Trustee to replace you is in your trust, at least it is in mine, just put your family members in line to replace you should the need arise. Therefore as long as the trust is valid the NFA weapon is legal and the Trustee can exercise control just as you have while trustee of the trust.
You need to have your trust before you engrave your lower. What if the name you engrave is changed before your trust is signed? And as is in one of the sticky's above before you engrave you want to make sure the lower functions correctly and is free of problems.
You can use Willmaker and then have your trust reviewed by an attorney, that's what I and many others have done. IMHO though you need to do what makes you feel comfortable.
A Trustee to replace you is in your trust, at least it is in mine, just put your family members in line to replace you should the need arise. Therefore as long as the trust is valid the NFA weapon is legal and the Trustee can exercise control just as you have while trustee of the trust.
This is going to be a dumb question that hopefully doesn't give you a seizure but why would my Trust name change before/after I engrave the lower?
I figured Id pick a name, send off my lower to get engraved, get it back and test it with a non-NFA upper I have (Bushy 16") and then create my Trust with the name I decided on.
This is going to be a dumb question that hopefully doesn't give you a seizure but why would my Trust name change before/after I engrave the lower?
I figured Id pick a name, send off my lower to get engraved, get it back and test it with a non-NFA upper I have (Bushy 16") and then create my Trust with the name I decided on.
Maybe it won't, but I changed mine twice before I was satisfied. If you have your trust, all you need is your lower (tested I hope) and you can send in your Form 1. Then while you wait 63 days to 6 months for your paperwork to get back you can have your lower engraved. Some suggest you have your lower engraved before sending in your paperwork and in truth that's what I did.
If you engrave your lower and then it turns out it has a problem with pin locations, or threads in the receiver extension area you're out the receiver cost and the engraving fee. If you have the lower already and it's tested then no problem.
Please use the formula that works for you, I am merely making some suggestions. :)
Ok cool, thank you for the advice :D. I just want to be careful with this kind of thing.
So about those tax implications? Does anyone here have to file taxes or something on their NFA toy/toys or....?
Isnt it, you do your Trust, send in your form1 and after you get it back your set for life(super simplified and briefly stated)?
As I have read some more I've come to the realization that there are a few different kinds of Trusts. Can anyone elaborate on the different kinds of Trust routes that the ATF will accept?
The vast majority of our customers use Trusts. I bet at least 90% use Quicken Willmaker to create their documents. I used that software for my personal Trust years ago.
You want a "Revocable" Trust. In most (if not all) versions of Willmaker the option you want is called a "Basic" Trust. When the documents are created you will see the Trust is a "Revocable Living Trust". You don't want an Irrevocable Trust because that can't be changed. Anything "revocable" allows you to add and remove assets, trustees, beneficiaries, etc.
The ATF wants to see a copy of your notarized Declaration of Trust and all associated schedules. Willmaker lists your Trust assets on "Schedule A" so that needs to accompany your forms to the ATF. You do not put your NFA item into the Trust (on Schedule A) until the form comes back approved.
I've had lawyers look over Trusts created by Willmaker and they have all agreed that for a pretty basic Trust the software does a great job. Most people "poo-pooing" these legal softwares are either lawyers or friends of lawyers. Go figure. All I can tell you here is that the ATF will review your Trust documents. If the Trust is not created correctly they will reject your forms. In all the transfers we've done I've only seen this happen to one of our customers. He had a local lawyer create his Trust. That lawyer was not a "Trust lawyer". ;)
Regarding engraving...
Keep in mind that if you wait until your Form 1 is approved and then you send your receiver off to be engraved, the engraver must be an SOT as that item is now a Title 2 item. Thus, you can't just ship it off to anyone and you can't even let the thing walk with some employee to the back of a shop since it will be out of your control. Lastly, if you do have the lower engraved and the engraver damages or loses the lower you are kind of screwed. I've always advised people to test their lower, get it engraved then submit your forms. But it is only my opinion.
Best of luck,
Mark
That is a wealth of information that answered tons of questions, thank you. :D
Perhaps I will have to give the willmaker a try. If the ATF revoke your papers are you out the 200 bucks? Or do they send it back / hold onto it until your papers are correct?
ETA
So would following this outline for procedures be appropriate? Is there anything I need to be aware of?
http://arizonagunlist.com/How_to_buy_NFA_class3_weapons_with_a_revocable_living_trust_without_a_CLEO_signoff.html
If they rejected your forms you'd get your $200 back but it might take a couple months.
Honestly, I just don't have the time to read that very lengthy link. It is as simple as this:
1. Create your Trust with Willmaker. Stick something in the Trust (Schedule A) as an asset the Trust owns. It can be anything but do something without a title. The first item I had was a book.
2. Print out the Trust and have notarized. If your state requires registering the Trust do it. The software will step you through everything. Just follow the software.
3. Make a copy of your Declaration of Trust and Schedule A.
4. Go to titleii.com and fill out the Form 1. You'll need to print two copies, double-sided.
5. Get your lower engraved.
6. Submit the Form 1s and one copy of the Trust paperwork with a check to BATFE for $200.
7. Wait. The hardest part!
I just had to say thank you again for your help. Now that I'm done with finals I can focus on this a little more :D.
With that said just to confirm I hear people suggesting this program?
http://www.nolo.com/products/quicken-willmaker-plus-2009-WQP.html
Is there anyone here that can vouch for it? Money is tight and it would suck to accidentally buy the wrong thing.
IMHO Quicken Willmaker is the best. Also, let me just say that it money is tight, then wait. Owning AR's and SBR's is not a cheap venture.
I just did an eBay search and there are plenty of 2009 and 2010's listed for less than $30.00
I just had to say thank you again for your help. Now that I'm done with finals I can focus on this a little more :D.
With that said just to confirm I hear people suggesting this program?
http://www.nolo.com/products/quicken-willmaker-plus-2009-WQP.html
Is there anyone here that can vouch for it? Money is tight and it would suck to accidentally buy the wrong thing.
Sweet thanks! Yeah, by tight I should say my gun money is tight lol.
I will end up selling an SKS and XD to further fund accessories later...but for now I just want to get the paper work out of the way.
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