CCW: Round Count Validation

[PrivateCitizen]

For the first time in 8 years I will be changing out my CCW to an M&P9

In the process of validating function I have and initial 300 rounds of FMJ.

Carry load will be factory Speer 147 Gold Dots.

The question is: 'how many carry rounds in addition are required to validate general carry function?' 100? 200?

I realize this is a subjective question because no amount is ever 'really' enough because everything eventually fails but I am just curious as to general opinion.

The round count at some point does become a cost factor.

What say you?

[Animal_Mother556]

For my Kimber, I fired 1000 rounds for break-in. With that completed, I started to pick out a carry load. I decided on Hornady Critical Defense, Fired 250 rounds of it with no malfunctions. To me, that was enough.

I have heard from numerous people something like, "Decide what you are going to carry, and shoot a LOT of it."

"A lot" is different to everyone. You need to make that choice.

You also need to consider that the M&P is most likely going to chew right threw anything you shove in that magazine. I have taken Glock 9mm mags and loaded them full with different ammo. Every round is different in some way (Bullet weight, bullet shape, +p). That Glock didn't even notice. M&Ps are going to be much the same way.

I'm not saying DON'T test fire your carry ammo...just saying MAYBE you don't need to shoot AS MUCH considering the platform you are shooting it out of.

Hope this helps

[gtmtnbiker98]

I "typically" try to shoot at least 500 or more target loads through my pistols before considering them for concealed carry. If the pistol makes it without issue, then I fire anywhere between 20-100 rounds of my preferred carry load through it before calling it good. During the first 500 or more rounds, I try an assortment of different ammunition makes and weights to try to see if an issue presents itself.

Right now, my main carry pieces are a P30 (4,600 rounds fired), a P2000SK V3 9mm (just over 500 rounds fired), and a brand new P2000 V2 .40 (just broke 500 rounds as well). The P30 is my primary but with the warmer weather, the P2000SK will become my primary for the summer.

In all actuality, there isn't a real threshold when it comes to self certifying a CCW. You just have to follow your gut. I carried my P2000SK after a few hundred rounds just because I thought that I could trust it. So far, I've been right. If a pistol is going to be problematic, it usually becomes apparent within the first 100-rounds or so. Best of luck.

[Sry0fcr]

I'd say 500 rounds with no lube/cleaning except before you get started is a good start.

[Dos Cylindros]

If this were a 1911 I might say different. 300 FMJ rounds and 100 of you chosen carry round would easily give me the confidence to carry any gun CCW or on duty for that matter. Given the M&P reputation, along with others like Glock, I would carry it on duty with only 200 rounds total through it (100 FMJ/100 JHP).

[PrivateCitizen]

I'd say 500 rounds with no lube/cleaning except before you get started is a good start.

Of target or carry loads?

[RWK]

I do a 300/100 break-in: 300 practice, 100 carry. I cycle through each magazine several times as well.

The round count you use is pretty arbitrary. Some folks go as high as 1,000 rounds before they feel a pistol/rifle is broken in. I think that's a bit extreme.

[6933]

It's got to make it through a class without issues.

[Littlelebowski]

1k rds without cleaning.

[Magsz]

The 2000 round challenge exists for a reason. :)

I would say that for proven designs like a Glock or an M&P 300-500 rounds would suffice with 200 of those being your chosen self defense round.

For a new pistol platform that may not have the best track record i would easily prefer over a grand or running the gun hard in a class.

[SWATcop556]

It's got to make it through a class without issues.

Depending on the class, this is good advise. I usually run between 750-1k through one before I make it a carry piece. Most top tier 2-3 classes will get you near that number and you can work out any gear related issues. Train like you fight.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Depending on the class, this is good advise. I usually run between 750-1k through one before I make it a carry piece. Most top tier 2-3 classes will get you near that number and you can work out any gear related issues. Train like you fight.

Take an Aim Fast Hit Fast class and you'll do almost a thousand rounds in eight hours. Hell, I could have managed the 2,000 round challenge in the two day class if it wasn't for my sore thumbs!

[Joeywhat]

Couple magazines for me. I put guns into the carry rotation pretty quickly, although it depends on my availability to get to the range. Sometimes I'll wait a week or two if I know I'll have a day off to get to the range and run through a half case. Of course now with ammo being as scarce and expensive as it is I don't run as much through my guns when not in a formal training course...

The way I see it, if the gun is going to fail it's going to start doing it pretty quickly. 100-200 rounds should tell me whether or not I've got a lemon or not. If I can get through that much without issue I have little reason to believe failures will start later on...granted, I run a Glock and M&P, which are known for reliability.

[macman37]

~300 rounds trouble free, but that's just me.

[tpd223]

In a proven design like a Glock 9mm, 3rd gen S&W, Beretta 92, or the M&P I'm good with 200-300 rounds of ball ammo, and then a magazine full of my carry load from each of the mags I will be using.

This has worked for me for a very long time.

[PrivateCitizen]

It's got to make it through a class without issues.

So you are saying to take a new defense candidate to a class and shoot the whole thing with carry loads?

[Redhat]

100, 300, 1000...How do you guys determine this "acceptable" number of rounds before you have faith in your handgun?

[RogerinTPA]

1K rounds for me, without malfunction, and just an initial lube. If any issues occur, I trouble shoot, fix the problem, and start again, before I deem it reliable enough to carry. Like others have said, a modern quality pistol should ace the 2K challenge, with just an initial lube.

[PrivateCitizen]

I find it hard to believe most are actually answering the question I asked.

I asked about how many carry rounds.

Not FMJs, not target, and all that …

Forgive me, but are some of you seriously saying you drop $500+ on 1K rounds of JHP Gold Dots before you will carry them in your CCW?

[John_Wayne777]

It depends.

If I want to pack a new 1911, I would generally try and get at least 250 rounds of carry ammo through the gun in addition to 500-1,000 rounds of FMJ to ensure proper function. The 1911's finicky nature made that basically a necessity.

With a modern polymer handgun and a widely used JHP round like the various Gold Dots, I'm much less worried. I never really tested my M&P's with 124 grain +P Gold Dot ammunition before carrying them. I just loaded up and carried. I've since fired some of my carry ammo in my normal process of cycling through it and function has been 100% as expected. Accuracy was pretty good to boot.

Ideally you would put 500-1,000 rounds of duty/carry ammo downrange (in addition to 500-1,000 rounds of FMJ) before carrying the firearm with that ammo...but I don't know of anyone who does that unless somebody else is paying their ammo tab. For most of us money/ammo are limited resources and we have to make some compromises. When using one of the modern service quality handguns (M&P, P30, Glock 9mms, etc) it's highly likely that they will function just fine with the recommended duty/carry loads from DocGKR's list as those loads tend to be issued by lots of law enforcement agencies. As a result lots of the rounds on that list go downrange in the various service pistols in use and tend to work fairly well, so we have a reasonably large base of experience to draw on there.

My advice would be to fire at least 50 rounds of duty/carry ammo through the gun to ensure that there are no major issues with it if you are concerned about function. If you're carrying a service quality firearm and you're using good ammo it's highly unlikely that you have much to worry about in terms of function in the first place...one of the benefits of modern handgun design. Personally I would feel precisely zero trepidation about going to the gun store, buying a G17 or an M&P 9, loading it with 124 grain +P Speer Gold Dot in the store, sticking it in the holster, and then walking out carrying that weapon to defend myself.

It boils down to a judgment call. Since I'm not exactly new at this I'm reasonably confident that I can make the right call. To add to that, when dealing with modern handgun designs I have yet to experience issues that were traceable to the JHP ammo I was using.

[RWK]

100, 300, 1000...How do you guys determine this "acceptable" number of rounds before you have faith in your handgun?

As I mentioned already, there is no scientific standard. It's completely arbitrary.

For me, 300/100 lets me cycle through each magazine a few times while observing how the gun functions. Feeding is not the only purpose of a break-in. I'm also looking for structural defects that may develop (cracks, striker/firing pin breakage, bad springs, sights coming loose, etc.). Feeding problems are usually going to reveal themselves quickly. I shoot the 100 carry rounds after the 300 ball rounds. I check for structural defects before I shoot and during cleaning.

[tpd223]

In a proven design like a Glock 9mm, 3rd gen S&W, Beretta 92, or the M&P I'm good with 200-300 rounds of ball ammo, and then a magazine full of my carry load from each of the mags I will be using.

This has worked for me for a very long time.


I was going to post more, but I'll just quote myself instead.



I should note that we found out on my job that our G22s didn't work with our duty ammo, at all, by actually firing some of said duty ammo. This was not the plan until I insisted on doing so, in other words the plan was to do the transition course with ball ammo and then go to work with duty ammo, never knowing that this ammo didn't work in those guns.

Actually shooting some duty ammo is a very good idea, but I see no need to go crazy with it either.

[Animal_Mother556]

I find it hard to believe most are actually answering the question I asked.

I asked about how many carry rounds.

Not FMJs, not target, and all that …

Forgive me, but are some of you seriously saying you drop $500+ on 1K rounds of JHP Gold Dots before you will carry them in your CCW?


I don't see ANYTHING wrong with spending that kind of money on ammo. It's the same reason why I spend $500+ on the GUN, instead of carrying a High Point C9. I WANT TO MAKE SURE IT WILL GO BANG EVERY TIME.

That's worth a lot of money to me, bro.

CCW is not a cheap thing to get into.

[Redhat]

As I mentioned already, there is no scientific standard. It's completely arbitrary.

For me, 300/100 lets me cycle through each magazine a few times while observing how the gun functions. Feeding is not the only purpose of a break-in. I'm also looking for structural defects that may develop (cracks, striker/firing pin breakage, bad springs, sights coming loose, etc.). Feeding problems are usually going to reveal themselves quickly. I shoot the 100 carry rounds after the 300 ball rounds. I check for structural defects before I shoot and during cleaning.

Well at least you have articulated a reason that works for you.

[eternal24k]

~300 rounds trouble free, but that's just me.

a big +1

[skyugo]

i generally run a mag or 2 through, that crap is expensive. :eek:
gold dots+9mm glocks is a pretty well proven combo anyway.

[DocGKR]

Before staking my life on it, my preference is to shoot at least 500 and preferably up to 1000 trouble free rounds out of any new duty/CCW pistol--approximately 75% being training ammo, the rest duty ammo. I feel even better if I get to shoot a multi-day training course with the pistol. If at all possible, I also feel it is a very good idea to have two or three identical weapons (ie. one for training, one for carry, and perhaps one spare) for any platform used for serious purposes.