Favorite Lube? [Archive] - Page 2 - M4Carbine.net Forums

Robryan

11-17-11, 10:36

Right here. On my second barrel for my 5.45 AR and also wore out the lower internal parts. As far as wearing out barrels, you must not shoot a lot of long range. The long range guys consider barrels to be a disposable item like magazines.

That is why I through barrels in they are the thing that usually wears out and they are considered worn out by target shooter well before the average person could tell a difference. And unlike you most people will never wear a barrel out. I would be more concerned personally about the rust resistance of different modern lubs then there ability to reduce wear.

An Undocumented Worker

11-17-11, 11:00

You people just convinced me to order some Froglube, ordered through amazon.

I've been using Slip2000 EWL30 and it has worked great on my AR's
I've also been using it on my pistols, however the frame rails always seem to dry up on them with the Slip2000. From what I've been reading, the froglube will stay dry untill it heats up, hopefully staying put on the frame rails with my pistol holstered. I just wish more gunshops would stay up to date on highquality lubes etc, cause this is the kind of stuff I would prefer to buy locally.

ra2bach

11-17-11, 11:24

A car engines oil system isn't sealed. There is always a pcv valve and crankcase breather.

Sent from my MB860

you're missing the point about the lube being constantly replenished to the parts as they move through a relatively large volume bath and it is also filtered. AR parts have to operate with the lube that is placed on them. big difference...

ra2bach

11-17-11, 11:25

call it a 'contained' system then. the point is that a gun doesn't have a system that keeps re-applying the lube like an engine does.

as for comparing the use of oil in engines to guns, and the number of cycles, it only applies when the oil is PRESENT. the issue with guns is how many the cycles the lube will stay in place or last after one application.
if you want a one to one comparison, then run your engine so the oil is nicely distributed, then run it without an oil pump. see how many cycles it'll run with only the lube that's on the parts, without any oil circulating.
we can argue about this forever, and pick apart or defend all the analogies, but it doesn't always mean that if a lube works well for one purpose, it'll work just as well for another. the only thing that matters to me when discussing a lube for guns is how well it works on guns.

you said it so much better...

Outlaw621

11-17-11, 13:13

Slip2000 EWL
A little bit goes a long way. Once you put it on it stays on and does not seem to break down like some other lube's do. In my opinion it also acts as a kind of inhibitor with carbon. I know that since I started using it I find it much easier to clean the carbon from my bolt and carrier.

davidjinks

11-17-11, 15:58

How well do I need to "degrease" the pieces and parts?

Is just a good wipe down sufficient?

Froglube= Champagne. Breakfree CLP= Piss. Trust me, if you use it properly you will like it.

davidjinks

11-17-11, 16:03

There's a reason why them call them "Frogs"...

It's FRENCH???? :mad:

Awwww MAN!!! Now I see where the name came from!

Iraqgunz

11-17-11, 16:06

Use some Simple Green and hot water if you want to be extra cautious. Then warm the parts up and apply liberally to the BCG and inside the upper.

How well do I need to "degrease" the pieces and parts?

Is just a good wipe down sufficient?

An Undocumented Worker

11-17-11, 17:46

Use some Simple Green and hot water if you want to be extra cautious. Then warm the parts up and apply liberally to the BCG and inside the upper.

I want to caution you about using simple green on an AR. Simple Green can and will corrode aluminum under the right circumstances. This was first noticed by aviators using the stuff to wash down their airplanes, and then finding corrosion at the rivets later on. Brake clean has been a proven method on AR's so I personally would stick with that.

http://www.simplegreen.com/solutions_faqs.php?search_query=&btnShowAll=Show+All

ucrt

11-17-11, 19:49

.

This is what I have figured out about lube and AR's.

Everyone thinks that their magic concocted formula or brand of lube is why they “have never had a problem” with their AR but in reality it is because they are actually just putting something (read that as “wet”) on their gun.

I remember reading an article years ago that Pat Rogers put Vagisil on a malfunctioning gun and miraculously... it started working again. It wasn’t the Vagisil that did the trick, it was that there was something (wet) on the moving parts in the gun. I wonder if that guy is still using Vagisil on his gun?

Now with that said, I am sure there are different legitimate reasons for the oil you use (or don’t use). Here are some of the reasons I have read and heard – cost; smell; dries out; smokes; prevents rust; easy to find; been using it before I was born; my gun always worked with it; works in my car, tractor, plane. lawn mower, etc.; the military (or uncle Joe, a celebrity, a gun shop, ...) uses it; works in my transmission; causes cancer; cures cancer; … When you think about some of these reasons, they can be kind of silly...

For me, I use what my gun maker suggests and since they warrantied my gun for life, I figure it has to be OK. Well, I’ve got 3300 rounds without cleaning and have not had a single malfunction. Is it absolutely the best lube…probably not but it seems to work pretty good.

About Frog Lube:
My nephew is in MARSOC. When he is overseas, he makes requests for "stuff". His last request while he was in Asia wasn't Cajun Seasoning, or candy, it was actually toys (for the local kids) and FrogLube. Now, he shoots a little bit more than me… (one of his recent courses was 800 rounds for his M4 and 800 rounds for his Springfield 45 every single day … for 3 straight weeks)…just a little bit more than me.
Now to me, someone shooting 30+K rounds in less than a month recommending FL is a pretty good reason to use it.
So, there has to be something to this FrogLube stuff and I am sure it is good but I haven’t tried it yet. I did smell it (minty) before I shipped him several bottles & jars.

All of that said to say this - I think a lot people make blind “superstitious” assumptions and claims about their lube being the absolute best because they have never had a problem with their AR, when really, it is probably just that they are keeping something slippery and wet on their gun's moving parts.

But maybe it’s just me…

.

Skang

11-17-11, 20:08

You have the right point, any type of oil is better than nothing.

But some are better than others.

Animal_Mother556

11-17-11, 20:13

If you go to the range and shoot 50 or 100 rounds at a time, you could probably have your rifle bone dry and keep it running. So, yeah...MOST people that use their own cocktail of lubes could probably get the same results with water on their BCG because they just don't shoot a lot.

I remember when I was pretty young people would tell my dad (when he owned his gun shop) that ..."in the army they tell us that you can over lubricate an M16....They tell us to keep 'em pretty dry" :rolleyes:

Iraqgunz

11-17-11, 22:31

I guess I am screwed then because I have been doing it for years with no adverse effects.

I want to caution you about using simple green on an AR. Simple Green can and will corrode aluminum under the right circumstances. This was first noticed by aviators using the stuff to wash down their airplanes, and then finding corrosion at the rivets later on. Brake clean has been a proven method on AR's so I personally would stick with that.

http://www.simplegreen.com/solutions_faqs.php?search_query=&btnShowAll=Show+All

cpekz

11-17-11, 22:33

Slip 2000 EWL :D

SW-Shooter

11-18-11, 00:19

Has anyone used Royal Purple CLP long term?

sspro2340

11-18-11, 00:26

Used to like ewl a lot, but I find that it runs too much for my liking.

I've been using slipstream exclusively for the last half year and like it a lot.

sspro2340

11-18-11, 00:28

Froglube= Champagne. Breakfree CLP= Piss. Trust me, if you use it properly you will like it.

I don't know about froglube, but i concur about the CLP.

I bought into the hype, and it functions, but it doesn't stay with the gun at all. It runs out of the gun too easily.

tb-av

11-18-11, 08:29

SimpleGreen will eat the finish off a blued gun as well.

I am a fan of FrogLube though

GTF425

11-18-11, 09:36

Slip 2000 EWL :D

This.

I've been converted after running it through our M240L's. ****ers ran through 2,000rds with 200 being cyclic, the last 1800 being rapid/sustained, with minimal lube. I was stuck using LSAT in the past, and sure it worked, but the EWL is way easier to apply and I can use it on all of our weapons. Plus it doesn't om nom dust/debris like other greases/CLPs which is a major concern for gun teams.

Great stuff.

davidjinks

11-18-11, 11:11

Into what hype? Froglube???

I have yet to hear any "hype" about it. What were you using...paste? Liquid?

How about some more details...

I don't know about froglube, but i concur about the CLP.

I bought into the hype, and it functions, but it doesn't stay with the gun at all. It runs out of the gun too easily.

markm

11-18-11, 11:22

I think he was talking about CLP running.... :confused:

davidjinks

11-18-11, 11:28

That's why I asked...I don't know which one he's talking about.

I think he was talking about CLP running.... :confused:

sspro2340

11-18-11, 23:47

That's why I asked...I don't know which one he's talking about.

I'm not sure how you got confused, but I was talking about CLP.

Details?
It doesn't stay in my gun.

davidjinks

11-19-11, 22:26

I'm not sure how you got confused, but I was talking about CLP.

Details?
It doesn't stay in my gun.

No confusion…

"I bought into the hype, and it functions, but it doesn't stay with the gun at all. It runs out of the gun too easily."

You didn't make it clear you were talking about CLP. That's why I was asking.

Diesel44

11-20-11, 01:16

I use FP10 Lubricant Elite. Never used anything else. Works great for me. BF CLP for cleaning and light lubrication.

Jake'sDad

11-20-11, 14:28

I'm a recent FrogLube convert.

Got some of the paste and the liquid in to try. Haven't put any on a gun yet, but I'm pretty sure the wintergreen flavor could help with bad breath...

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m602/JakeandDad/IMG_1189.jpg

CLHC

11-20-11, 15:02

Got some of the paste and the liquid in to try. . .but I'm pretty sure the wintergreen flavor could help with bad breath...
That's funny! By the way, the FrogLube doesn't seem to have any taste at all as I posted in this thread post #153.

Enjoy!

Jake'sDad

11-20-11, 17:18

That's funny! By the way, the FrogLube doesn't seem to have any taste at all as I posted in this thread post #153.

Enjoy!

What a tease.

I've got a Sig 229 slide and barrel baking with some on it as we speak. Smells like Candy Canes. Very festive.

Being able to clean guns in the house again would be great...especially this time of year.

mark1JT

01-20-12, 12:45

Well I have come to like tw25b as of late. Recently used it during some outdoor shooting on a relatively already dirty carbine and after about 1000 rounds had zero malfunctions. No re-lubing done during the shooting.
Not a big deal right, unless you consider the shooting was done in -40 degrees Celsius where grease is supposed to gum up and cause malfunctions. I have noticed this does not happen with tw25b, after all it is synthetic grease that is quite thin to begin with. I had other kit malfunctions due to the extreme cold but nothing from my carbine.

My take on AR carbine lubing is tw25b to start then a synthetic oil once shooting and it starts to look dry as the oil is easy to apply. As has been said multiple times on this and other AR carbine forums dirty is fine as long as it is wet.

Carbine was a colt canada swf 16 inch barrel, mid length di gas system.

Preliator

01-20-12, 15:05

You tasted it?... (reffering to Froglube)

So did I, no taste... I had to demonstrate a few times for guys at work. No adverse effects on my digestive system. A bunch of the guys are very interested. I will keep testing this stuff - but it has made me a believer so far.

ericb

01-20-12, 15:21

I use SLIP EWL and couldn't be happier.

Smash

01-20-12, 16:27

I just did an oil change on the 6.7 powerstroke with Rotella T. Most diesel owners swear by it and I happen to have a half quart left over, hmm....

Smash

01-20-12, 16:34

(reffering to Froglube)

So did I, no taste... I had to demonstrate a few times for guys at work. No adverse effects on my digestive system. A bunch of the guys are very interested.

Are these gentlemen at work buying lube based on being gentle on the bowels? Do you work at College Humor?:sarcastic:

ROUTEMICHIGAN

01-21-12, 00:44

Ballistol, Slip EWL and now Froglube.

K1tt3n5

01-21-12, 02:13

Weapon shield, frog lube, m pro 7 and basically everything else works just fine.

WS6

01-21-12, 03:44

I just did an oil change on the 6.7 powerstroke with Rotella T. Most diesel owners swear by it and I happen to have a half quart left over, hmm....

Certain addatives (sulpher) etc are hydroscopic.

Smash

01-21-12, 10:14

Certain addatives (sulpher) etc are hydroscopic.

What's your point on this in regards to gun lube?

RogerinTPA

01-21-12, 10:34

What's your point on this in regards to gun lube?

Regular motor oil will produce an ungodly smell (most likely the sulpher) and smoke like crazy when it burns off. Use true synthetic oil. I use Royal Purple.

WS6

01-21-12, 10:34

What's your point on this in regards to gun lube?

Lube gets places, such as around the barrel-nut, etc. that you aren't likely to easily remove it from. Let this set for a while and the hydroscopic properties *could* cause an issue. It doesn't matter in an engine because the water gets burned off, but on a firearm in a place like that, it might.

Smash

01-21-12, 10:37

Ah, check. I see where you are you going now just needed some clarification.

Fairweather8588

01-21-12, 13:18

M Pro 7 CLP has worked great in all of my firearms (plus I got a gallon for free, which always helps)

HawaiianM4

01-22-12, 00:23

I have been using Rem® Drilube™. Shot 100 rounds of 5.56 and 100 rounds of 22 caliber without any malfunctions. Also little or no smoking while shooting. Also none of the smell of burning oil. Cleaning after using was much easier with the residue reduced. Sprayed the bolt, chamber and charging rod with Rem Drilube and after changing from 5.56 to 22 caliber. great stuff!

Nightvisionary

01-22-12, 00:34

Mobil 1 synthetic works great

payj

01-22-12, 01:01

Slip2k, Weapon Shield Or Mpro7 lpx

Thomas M-4

01-22-12, 01:10

Lube gets places, such as around the barrel-nut, etc. that you aren't likely to easily remove it from. Let this set for a while and the hydroscopic properties *could* cause an issue. It doesn't matter in an engine because the water gets burned off, but on a firearm in a place like that, it might.

It might what:lol:the water get burned off just the same as in an engine?? The barrel nut is one of the hottest spots on the rifle. I regularly get the barrel hot enough to burn off water its not that hard..

WS6

01-22-12, 01:15

It might what:lol:the water get burned off just the same as in an engine?? The barrel nut is one of the hottest spots on the rifle. I regularly get the barrel hot enough to burn off water its not that hard..

Probably wouldn't hurt your rifle. Mine sits unused for a few weeks at a time, though.

Thomas M-4

01-22-12, 01:27

Probably wouldn't hurt your rifle. Mine sits unused for a few weeks at a time, though.

Common I have a KAC ris that I refuse to take off unless I have too.That s.o.b is pain in my ass to get to fit around the gas tube.
I am still trying to figure out why you would say moisture /water can have a detrimental effect. The boiling point of water is 212 degrees that is nothing. I could get to that point in less than 2 full mags if I tried.

WS6

01-22-12, 02:13

Common I have a KAC ris that I refuse to take off unless I have too.That s.o.b is pain in my ass to get to fit around the gas tube.
I am still trying to figure out why you would say moisture /water can have a detrimental effect. The boiling point of water is 212 degrees that is nothing. I could get to that point in less than 2 full mags if I tried.

I understand. I just don't shoot my rifle every day. If you do, not an issue of course.

Thomas M-4

01-22-12, 02:31

I understand. I just don't shoot my rifle every day. If you do, not an issue of course.

Unfortunately I don't get to shoot my rifle every day :mad:
But I do understand when I do get too shoot it that if there is any moisture accumulation it is all gone with in two magazines or less.
I also consider that the receiver is Anodized aluminum not very rust prone the barrel nut should be parkerized also not rust prone and to date I have seen a 590 parkerized barrel survive more than 2 yrs sitting in an police armory with out any preventive care that it handled just fine.

WS6

01-22-12, 02:47

Ny dad doesn't have a dehumidifier, and constantly battles rust in his safe regardless of lube used.

steve--oh

01-22-12, 09:55

I can't tell you how butthurt I am that I left my Slip2000 EWL on a shitty OP. Now I am relegated to friggin CLP, which as you know, sucks for shooting suppressed and just about everything else. EWL was awesome, and it was my first foray into "custom" lubricant if you will, (not CLP or motor oil or monkeyjizz), and it definitely converted me.

I don't know what hurts more. The thought of having to carry around a little bottle of CLP to squirt on my bolt carrier every day, or some Afghan Army commando getting his hands on my EWL and desecrating his shitty, spraypainted M16A2 with it!!

I may have to try this froglube stuff when I get back though, I am hearing good things.

jet66

01-22-12, 10:11

Currently it's Slip 2000 gun lube. It's my first jump in to something above the normal sporting goods store lube, and I was happy to see that it keeps up with it's reputation. It keeps things wet even after 200-300 rounds. I'm actually able to just 'wipe things down' and add a few more drops, and feel comfortable that the gun isn't too dirty to keep going. It probably doesn't even need the 'wipe down,' but OCD cleaning habits are hard to break...

gojira70

01-22-12, 10:17

I like to use Dextron3 Automatic Trans Fluid. It has a lot of detergents and can handle the heat well. Never had problems in the colder weather either. I know CLP gums up in colder climates. I have used Mobil1 as well.

Artiz

01-22-12, 10:50

I switched from Castrol Syntec 10W30 to Slip EWL.

I was supposed to get the regular EWL, but got the 30, and am thankful for that mistake. :p

That thing stays where you put it no matter what and I noticed a difference in friction while cycling the CH. It's way better at corrosion protection than synthetic motor oil, too. (no we don't have quick and easy access to CLP and the like up here, Slip can only be found at one place, too)

Preliator

01-22-12, 11:08

Are these gentlemen at work buying lube based on being gentle on the bowels? Do you work at College Humor?:sarcastic:

Knowing some of those guys it would not suprise me if that is how they pick lube:fie:

We all like how it is in paste form when cool and turns into oiled snot when warm. Seems to do a great job on the guns, and you know how the government is always trying to go "green"......

Littlelebowski

01-22-12, 11:55

I
I may have to try this froglube stuff when I get back though, I am hearing good things.

I need your address.

accce

07-20-12, 08:03

Has anyone ever used ProTecta oil?

https://www.sfrcorp.com/product/protecta-precision-oiler/

http://blog.sfrcorp.com/2009/07/10/gun-oillubricant-sfr’s-protecta-precision-oiler-proves-superior/

KevinB

07-20-12, 13:45

Over the last two years the best results I have seen in both suppressed and unsuppressed for a Lube is Mobile 1 Synthetic 15W40 Motor Oil.

I've tried Slip2000, MPro-7, TW-25B Grease - all with good results, but not as good as the Mobil 1. Recently I have been playing with Froglube and it seems to do very well -- but its only been a month, and not enough rounds to give a definitive answer, on how good it is.

For cleaning/carbon removing - MPro-7, or the KG Industry Carbon cutters work very well, SLIP2000 Carbon Cutter does well as well, but I think a little less than the other two.

Copper removing, Shooter's Choice, Sweet's762, Accubore MPro-7 Copper Remover, all do well.

CLP does an okay lube job. its not a good cleaner or a good preservative

Stay away from Militec and RemOil - they are way to thin to do a good job for anything.

fallenromeo

07-20-12, 14:18

I use froglube for everything and I am happy with it.

gunfighter48

07-21-12, 19:59

I use Weapon Shield for oil and Tetra grease where grease is needed. Never have a problem since using these. I've used Tetra grease for over 20 years, works great.

gun71530

07-21-12, 21:50

Six months ago, I made the switch from SLIP 2000 EWL to Froglube. I couldn't be happier, Froglube is worth the additional cost.

tha101

07-21-12, 22:00

+1 for Frog lube!

Redhat

07-21-12, 22:17

Six months ago, I made the switch from SLIP 2000 EWL to Froglube. I couldn't be happier, Froglube is worth the additional cost.

How often do you guys have to re-apply Froglube?

RonboF117

07-21-12, 23:55

I've been very pleased with Slip2000 EWL and their EW Grease. I have a syringe I put the grease on with so that I can control the amount and location easily. For the right places, grease with a drop or two of the EWL works great.

On a recent range trip shooting around 300 rounds of .223; when my BCG was compared to the other rifles - the grease and lube were where I put them and everything looked good and wet. The other rifles had BCGs that were pretty much dry. I don't remember what they were using before but they wanted to try EWL after.

I use both products on a wide variety of weapons and, for me, it has provided the most consistent and reliable combination of lubricants.

FWIW, I was going to try Frog Lube but I saw a handgun slide that showed before and after pics. The pictures shown after using FL had a lot of slide wear. The pistol owner felt it was metal-on-metal wear that wasn't there before he used FL.

gun71530

07-22-12, 00:43

How often do you guys have to re-apply Froglube?

Without trying to sound like a smart ass, whenever it needs it.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

ComradeBoris

07-22-12, 01:59

Both slip 2000 and froglube. Both work well, froglube seems to clean up better.

Brahmzy

07-22-12, 07:55

Pretty partial to Weapon Shield. It stinks, it drips, it runs but DANG it works and protects like no other. That said, I'm always up for trying new stuff. I need to bit the bullet n try some Froglube.

M-FOURTEEN

07-22-12, 10:39

+2 for Froglube. Great stuff for the money. Slip 2000 is good too.

Redhat

07-22-12, 12:11

Without trying to sound like a smart ass, whenever it needs it.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

So I take it you haven't noticed an approximate round count.

iGun

07-22-12, 12:40

I've switched to Frog paste on my ARs and gas shotgun because it soaks up carbon well and stays put.

PA PATRIOT

07-22-12, 13:33

Mobile 1 Synthetic 15W40 Motor Oil for the past six months and loving it so much I retired using Militec oil, I still use my Militec grease until I find better.

sinlessorrow

07-22-12, 13:41

Mobile 1 Synthetic 15W40 Motor Oil for the past six months and loving it so much I retired using Militec oil, I still use my Militec grease until I find better.

you do know militec can cause brittle steel right?

google militec Chlorinated Esters lead to cracking, basically militec uses chlorinated esters which lead to stress corrosion cracking

http://books.google.com/books?id=sDZonEVMgb4C&lpg=PA18&ots=iptlZKna_0&dq=militec%20banned&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q=militec%20banned&f=false

gun71530

07-22-12, 15:59

So I take it you haven't noticed an approximate round count.

Not really, I will add some liquid Frog Lube prior to going to the range. I strip the the BCG every 1000 rounds or so, and reapply the paste via my oven.

iGun

07-22-12, 16:17

I typically go ~1k between cleanings with Frog paste (applied with a hair drier). I only use the liquid for barrel cleaning.

currahee

07-22-12, 16:45

mobile 1 synthetic

jhs1969

07-22-12, 17:43

Mobile 1 Synthetic 15W40 Motor Oil for the past six months and loving it so much I retired using Militec oil, I still use my Militec grease until I find better.

Slip 2000 grease, just recently received it and am liking very much. Now all Militec lube has been retired for me.

koniz

07-22-12, 21:01

Royal purple or anything synthetic, never had any problems

Triton225

07-23-12, 17:26

What about Eezox? anyone tried that, heard it was good.

iGun

07-23-12, 18:53

What about Eezox? anyone tried that, heard it was good.

Good anti rust. Great solvent. Weak lubricant. Toxic as hell.

chadbag

07-23-12, 21:25

you do know militec can cause brittle steel right?

google militec Chlorinated Esters lead to cracking, basically militec uses chlorinated esters which lead to stress corrosion cracking

http://books.google.com/books?id=sDZonEVMgb4C&lpg=PA18&ots=iptlZKna_0&dq=militec%20banned&pg=PA7#v=onepage&q=militec%20banned&f=false

Eezox, AFAIU, also contains chlorinated esters. FYI.

-

kwg020

07-24-12, 22:25

I use 90 wt gear grease in the summer and on my Garands. I thin it with RemOil if I need it thinned out for winter or in other gun applications. I like to keep it simple. kwg

far9mm

07-25-12, 14:08

got a large bottle of froglube as a gift that i will be trying. i have been using miltec for a while.

Triton225

07-25-12, 16:41

So for being fairly new to these super oils/grease/cleaners. What is a good choice for cleaning carbon, preserving metal, and or lube. I was planning to use mobil1 to lube with. Also, what about kroil oil?
On a side note, anyone have a link to a good site/video for tips on maintaining a ar. Like lube here,clean this, check this make sure of this etc etc.

carbinero

07-25-12, 16:49

I now use weaponshield for most everything. This should help:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/f_3/7_Maintenance_andamp__Cleaning.html

Berserkr556

07-25-12, 18:33

My favorite lube is Slip2000EWL. I started using it in 2008 IIRC and i have no desire to use anything else.

swedeboy

07-25-12, 22:20

Slip 2000 EWL

fowler

07-26-12, 10:10

I use nothing but the German Ballistol Sportsman oil for all cleaning and lube on all firearms. Works great in the Ar bolt assy. Lubes and keeps fouling down with easy clean up and relube.

duglasfur

07-26-12, 13:24

My step dad recently bought a bunch of Hornady One Shot gun cleaner and lubricant in "one". He primarily shoots hand guns (autos and revolvers) and does not own an AR.

He gave me 2 cans and I can get more. Seems to work good on my Beretta 92. It's from Hornady, so we know it's safe on mags, primers, etc....

So, has anyone used this on an AR? Rings/BCG? Training..?

Recommended? or Hell No!?

Fiiyablade

07-26-12, 19:06

frog lube

WillC

07-26-12, 21:48

Steve S.

07-27-12, 17:05

WD40, no shit, I keep a small spray bottle on my kit at all time, to lube the weapon, to spray on hinges when "going quiet" on a door, and maybe a million other uses.

At BUD/S, and since then, I have seen dudes using a million different lubes to prevent rust on their metal for dives, ocean swims and OTB ops, but the "Dub-D" always preformed and has never let me down. The moment it does, I will go on a crusade to make sure no one else ever uses the product again, but until then...

I have put lots of rounds through guns lubed with WD-40 (suppressed and unsuppressed) and I have never had a problem...
Not the perfect lube, I would try to not use it on a Heavy Weap ... but I have in a pinch and it works.

ETA: I read the entire thread

I also keep WD40 in my bags. Though not my primary lube, it works great in a pinch - for just about anything.

What sold me is their new small bottle with integrated nozzle. Flip it up, and spray. It's a fast easy fix.

I treat all the metal on my shop equipment every month or so with WD40 as well. Michigan can get pretty humid, and I've yet to see any rust - even on the cheapest of tools.

ETA pic. The really small bottle will fit literally anywhere. I keep two Glock mags, a bottle of lighter fluid, 4 lighters, and the WD40 in that little pouch. The can looks deceivingly big in this picture.

http://img.tapatalk.com/63795e03-11b0-db34.jpg

doubletap2211

07-27-12, 17:13

Slip 2000 EWL for me.

remington79

07-27-12, 18:33

Anyone have any luck with MC2500? I know it works great on my pistols as does the TW25B grease.

doubletap2211

07-27-12, 18:46

I have used it. Worked well for me in my carbines. One reason I switched to slip is because it's a little cheaper.

cjpn318

07-27-12, 18:59

Slip 2k EWL or Mobil 1 synthetic depending on the day of the week.

420ollie

07-28-12, 00:06

I use Breakfree clp or what ever is laying around at the time.

I ran it dry a few times especially after I put it together after I cerakoted the Whole thing.

I used High temp grease that you would use on your car. You can use it on your trigger. I put a little on where the bolt rides in the reciever. It works when its hot and cold.

DIRTMAN556

07-28-12, 00:28

FrogLube.

WillC

07-29-12, 14:38

I really thought I would have gotten some hateful responses by now about WD-40.

WD-40 has been my go to general purpose lube way before I knew better, but like Steve S., for weapons, definitely not my primary but it has never hurt anything when I didn't have some Mobil 1 synthetic, Slip etc.
It has been pointed out to me that it was never designed to be a lubricant and on a performance scale does poorly when used as such, but ill be damned if any time I had some metal on metal squeaking, rubbing, friction, sticking, rusting etc, the stuff worked and I seemed to always have some nearby.

Going a different direction, has anyone tried any of the non-petroleum spray lubes I am seeing at home depot etc?

ClearedHot

07-29-12, 17:04

I also keep WD40 in my bags. Though not my primary lube, it works great in a pinch - for just about anything.

What sold me is their new small bottle with integrated nozzle. Flip it up, and spray. It's a fast easy fix.

I treat all the metal on my shop equipment every month or so with WD40 as well. Michigan can get pretty humid, and I've yet to see any rust - even on the cheapest of tools.

ETA pic. The really small bottle will fit literally anywhere. I keep two Glock mags, a bottle of lighter fluid, 4 lighters, and the WD40 in that little pouch. The can looks deceivingly big in this picture.

http://img.tapatalk.com/63795e03-11b0-db34.jpg

Besides stopping squeaks, WD-40 works pretty good at lighting shit on fire too. As a kid, my brother and I would assault heavily defended ant hills with our flamethrowers (WD-40 aerosol cans and lighters). :D

a0cake

07-29-12, 17:21

I really thought I would have gotten some hateful responses by now about WD-40.

I thought about it. :D

But really, WD-40 is good at water displacement (obviously). So for your particular needs, it makes sense why you use it (working in and around water).

However, it does tend to gum up pretty badly when it's applied liberally and doesn't have any water to displace. So for most applications, like you said, there are better purpose-built lubricants to use.

Iraq Ninja

07-29-12, 19:59

I use SEAL 1, invented by the same guy after he came up with Frog Lube. I prefer the paste version, and cook the gun parts in a crock pot. I think PWS re-brands SEAL 1 for their own lube, but it is the same.

Not only is the adhesion qualities improved slightly, but I find it costs less than FL. Both are great lubes though.

Both SEAL 1 and Frog Lube paste are great multitasking lubes, and even work for dry skin, lip balm, etc.

I don't see any reason to lube my weapons with petro based oils, like the various brands I have used overseas for many years. SEAL/FL stays on a long time and does the job.

Have also used it to treat knives, Japanese Katana, and leather with great results.

I too like Ballistol, but found it would bead up on stored weapons after a few months.

ekaphoto

07-29-12, 20:11

Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil. Cheap and works very very well.

cz7

07-29-12, 22:29

I use stuff called "Tri-Flow". It's got teflon in suspension, I don't know if that's good or bad. You do have to remember to shake it first. I do know that it's worked well in every firearm I own. I thought that maybe I never ran a gun hard enough to show it's weakness, but it performed well at a 3 day Magpul carbine class.
Just my .02teflon is a strange stuff ....bonds at app.700* to steel etc never very evenly plus when it burns its very toxic ....and makes very bad things like acids etc when mixed with burned powder residues .......

Richard Belott

07-31-12, 21:35

Tw 25

Iraq Ninja

07-31-12, 21:47

It would be helpful and informative if folks would post WHY they use a certain lube.

One may argue that KY Jelly is a great lube for the range, but I think most of us are looking for a bit more.

WS6

07-31-12, 22:26

It would be helpful and informative if folks would post WHY they use a certain lube.

One may argue that KY Jelly is a great lube for the range, but I think most of us are looking for a bit more.

Froglube:

The AR does not need AP additives to function. It needs something slick that will float debris. Froglube does this, burns off at a VERY high temperature, and when it does, it contributes no residue of its own. It is also non-toxic, which means when it is vaporized, it's just one less thing I have to worry about. My pulmonary system > Cam-pin wear.

WillC

08-01-12, 00:02

It would be helpful and informative if folks would post WHY they use a certain lube.

One may argue that KY Jelly is a great lube for the range, but I think most of us are looking for a bit more.

I feel that I may have covered some of my own thoughts on this, but if you do ever find you have come out of the water with your gun, my experience is after a fresh water rinse and a through wipe down, if you have time, WD-40 is suitable to not only lube your weapon, but "displace water" and still have the gun function when you need it to and prevent it from rusting. I remember one time in particular when we had to come OTB and run a stress course then shoot at targets, a quick "making sure my gun doesn't explode, flush with water down the barrel" was enough to do the job and because I had lubed with WD-40, the water in the receiver and bolt just kind of beaded up but definitely flushed any sand out.

There have been more intricate methods in the past (including Vaseline on the dust cover and condoms on the barrel with an empty mag in the well ) ,the running water down the barrel was just a safety precaution to make sure there wasn't sand jamming up the barrel.

Another thought, we have had to put weapons away after a range when it was humid or raining, and while a treatment before with WD will help, a wipe down as soon as possible after will always keep rust at bay ... I am reminded of the Sig's I had to treat after some of these times.

But once again, when dry on a range or down range, there are far better products. An exception: I still remember when we were all running dry lubes overseas because of the sand, but I found any decent wet lube works (much better than the dry lubes) well for a short period of time and there is no magic answer. But when working in dirty environments it is best to apply lube, wipe excess off your bolt and carry a bottle or spray can of what ever you have handy and once you are employing heavily make sure you occasionally stop to add some ... I am sure any heavy weapon guys can especially vouch for that.

I have no doubt that Froglube or a similar product will work better, especially with firearms, I just haven't had the chance to work with it yet but still feel that somewhere outside of the total general usefulness of WD-40 it may fall short.

Thomas M-4

08-01-12, 00:16

Froglube:

The AR does not need AP additives to function. It needs something slick that will float debris. Froglube does this, burns off at a VERY high temperature, and when it does, it contributes no residue of its own. It is also non-toxic, which means when it is vaporized, it's just one less thing I have to worry about. My pulmonary system > Cam-pin wear.

A DI AR has gas rings if it's gased correctly it needs good sealing gas rings to function properly being slick is fairly easy providing the proper film of lube for the gas rings to have a long life is some thing different I have yet to find any thing that does this to the point that good quality motor does considering that it has been formulated and refined for many years to do this. I finally got fed up on waiting for my gas rings on my LMT to fail the no go check so I replaced them at the 5+K mark my friends LMT gas rings didn't last past the 3K mark. And yes that doesn't mean much but you already know that motor oil is formulated to include long gas ring life. As far as toxic the amount is so small it's laughable I work for at one of the worlds largest steel manufacture I am exposed to more shit on an 8 hr shift than I would ever get in a life time use of motor oil.

WS6

08-01-12, 01:37

A DI AR has gas rings if it's gased correctly it needs good sealing gas rings to function properly being slick is fairly easy providing the proper film of lube for the gas rings to have a long life is some thing different I have yet to find any thing that does this to the point that good quality motor does considering that it has been formulated and refined for many years to do this. I finally got fed up on waiting for my gas rings on my LMT to fail the no go check so I replaced them at the 5+K mark my friends LMT gas rings didn't last past the 3K mark. And yes that doesn't mean much but you already know that motor oil is formulated to include long gas ring life. As far as toxic the amount is so small it's laughable I work for at one of the worlds largest steel manufacture I am exposed to more shit on an 8 hr shift than I would ever get in a life time use of motor oil.

Do you inhale the vaporized petroleum products at work?

I have not had this issue with rings. The rings in the M4 are not at any sort of real risk, in my opinion. My car turns 7,500rpm when I get on it. That means in about 2-3 minutes of hard driving, I have put as much "wear" on those rings as I have in the entire barrel's life of my AR. Much less it's projected bolt-life. My car has a 60K mile powertrain warranty.

I guess my point is, I don't think the rings are an issue unless you have a burr or something eating them up in your carrier. This is regardless of the lube you use. Your friend's carrier may have had a slightly rougher lining than yours. Also, why did he replace them? Malfunctions?

Thomas M-4

08-01-12, 01:54

Do you inhale the vaporized petroleum products at work?

I have not had this issue with rings. The rings in the M4 are not at any sort of real risk, in my opinion. My car turns 7,500rpm when I get on it. That means in about 2-3 minutes of hard driving, I have put as much "wear" on those rings as I have in the entire barrel's life of my AR. Much less it's projected bolt-life. My car has a 60K mile powertrain warranty.

I guess my point is, I don't think the rings are an issue unless you have a burr or something eating them up in your carrier. This is regardless of the lube you use. Your friend's carrier may have had a slightly rougher lining than yours. Also, why did he replace them? Malfunctions?

He didn't have to replace them because it was over gased enough that the rings failing the standard test didn't matter it functioned fine with the rings having very little tension. Rings are a issue more so if you are a person that has assembled a AR to function on minimum gas. It may have had a rougher lining that kind of thing would be hard to find out for sure but they were both made in the same year by the same manufacture for what ever that is worth? That's the point you turn your car at 7500rpm and the rings survive it is easly the work for the oil is to keep rings on an AR alive running at much less rpm rings need. A certain film strength is needed for proper lubricating it has to penetrate the bore surface and the ring surfaces and keep carbon from freezing them up.

Thomas M-4

08-01-12, 01:57

Thomas M-4

08-01-12, 02:06

WS6

08-01-12, 02:34

I can tell you for certain that I am exposed to galvinized and gavalume and fuming hydrocholic acid on an hourly basis. How would you rate that against petroleum ??

My company makes the steel for your WS6 I get a manufactures discount for every car made in the US.

Cool, I drive a Japanese car, now, though (American car interiors turned me off, so I sold my Z06 and bought a 370Z). X-plan is neat, I used to work for Ford and enjoyed my X-plan customers (and all the other letter-customers). No haggling. I brought them their plan's price and they could buy it or not.

I understand your point, but why would you just add to the list of crap in your system?

I think you are over-stating the importance of rings. If they last 3K rounds, cool. They are very cheap. Cheaper than the services of the pulmonologists where I work, by a long shot.

Froglube should do just fine in keeping them alive to a very reasonable service-life point. Even on a properly gassed AR, wear is not that critical. Since you know a bit about the WS6 I used to own, are you aware that the low-tension rings used in the LS1 engine are part of what made it such a successful design? It laid down GREAT! power given the head-flow/cam/etc., and all of the dyno graphs past 100K miles that I saw, as well as the performance of my own car backs the point that they maintained a great seal. Tension isn't everything when it comes to a "ring". Do you know for a fact that your friend's LMT is over-gassed? How did you assess this?

I believe that the lower tension = lower friction offsets any possible advantage in "seal" created by the "tighter" rings. This goes along with dyno testing of Total Seal rings in engines, as well as anecdotal reports of those using the McFarland in their AR's and sometimes having issues due to increased friction.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/84732/how_piston_rings_affect_horsepower.aspx

Thomas M-4

08-01-12, 02:46

Cool, I drive a Japanese car, now, though. X-plan is neat, I used to work for Ford and enjoyed my X-plan customers (and all the other letter-customers). No haggling. I brought them their plan's price and they could buy it or not.

I understand your point, but why would you just add to the list of crap in your system?

I think you are over-stating the importance of rings. If they last 3K rounds, cool. They are very cheap. Cheaper than the services of the pulmonologists where I work, by a long shot.

Froglube should do just fine in keeping them alive to a very reasonable service-life point. Even on a properly gassed AR, wear is not that critical. Since you know a bit about the WS6 I used to own, are you aware that the low-tension rings used in the LS1 engine are part of what made it such a successful design? It laid down GREAT! power given the head-flow/cam/etc., and all of the dyno graphs past 100K miles that I saw, as well as the performance of my own car backs the point that they maintained a great seal. Tension isn't everything when it comes to a "ring". Do you know for a fact that your friend's LMT is over-gassed? How did you assess this?

16" carbine that would function on gas rings that would not pass the bcg test . It's because of the advancements it motor oil that you see the 100k mile improvements yes the design has improved but the lubricates used as also improved .. You can not disprove one from the other even using less expensive motor oil has improved over previous years. I have no doubt that frog lube works the question is it worth the price that they charge ??

Thomas M-4

08-01-12, 02:51

Cool, I drive a Japanese car, now, though (American car interiors turned me off, so I sold my Z06 and bought a 370Z). X-plan is neat, I used to work for Ford and enjoyed my X-plan customers (and all the other letter-customers). No haggling. I brought them their plan's price and they could buy it or not.

I understand your point, but why would you just add to the list of crap in your system?

I think you are over-stating the importance of rings. If they last 3K rounds, cool. They are very cheap. Cheaper than the services of the pulmonologists where I work, by a long shot.

Froglube should do just fine in keeping them alive to a very reasonable service-life point. Even on a properly gassed AR, wear is not that critical. Since you know a bit about the WS6 I used to own, are you aware that the low-tension rings used in the LS1 engine are part of what made it such a successful design? It laid down GREAT! power given the head-flow/cam/etc., and all of the dyno graphs past 100K miles that I saw, as well as the performance of my own car backs the point that they maintained a great seal. Tension isn't everything when it comes to a "ring". Do you know for a fact that your friend's LMT is over-gassed? How did you assess this?

I believe that the lower tension = lower friction offsets any possible advantage in "seal" created by the "tighter" rings. This goes along with dyno testing of Total Seal rings in engines, as well as anecdotal reports of those using the McFarland in their AR's and sometimes having issues due to increased friction.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/84732/how_piston_rings_affect_horsepower.aspx

Cool I even get manufacture discount for toyota and Kia any car manufactured in the conus.

WS6

08-01-12, 03:03

Cool I even get manufacture discount for toyota and Kia any car manufactured in the conus.

My car is 99% assembled in Japan from 100% Japanese parts, or some such, per the sticker on the window. Otherwise, I would have tried to look you up, had I known! :D

The oil in your car must do a lot more work than the oil on the BCG. You need a maximum of about 5K rounds or so out of those rings before the bolt is a liability IMO. They will last plenty long enough, as you have already noted, probably even using Crisco or something.

Just because his rifle functioned after "failing" the ring test does not mean it is over-gassed. If that were the case, then you are saying that the design functions on a razor's edge tolerance. That means ANY debris would lock it up/cause failures. You cannot simply state that it is over-gassed just because it does what his did. What other reason would you think it was over-gassed? The system is designed for the ring-gaps to be staggered, and pass the test you mentioned.

BUT!

It is also designed to function (and it does) if the end-gaps align, and/or the rings are a little worn.

It's not a study in absolutes, or it would fail far more than is acceptable. Presuming otherwise would be like saying "On round 5,001, your bolt will break. If it doesn't, it's special/different/somehow made to another "spec".

Thomas M-4

08-01-12, 03:04

Cool, I drive a Japanese car, now, though (American car interiors turned me off, so I sold my Z06 and bought a 370Z). X-plan is neat, I used to work for Ford and enjoyed my X-plan customers (and all the other letter-customers). No haggling. I brought them their plan's price and they could buy it or not.

I understand your point, but why would you just add to the list of crap in your system?

I think you are over-stating the importance of rings. If they last 3K rounds, cool. They are very cheap. Cheaper than the services of the pulmonologists where I work, by a long shot.

Froglube should do just fine in keeping them alive to a very reasonable service-life point. Even on a properly gassed AR, wear is not that critical. Since you know a bit about the WS6 I used to own, are you aware that the low-tension rings used in the LS1 engine are part of what made it such a successful design? It laid down GREAT! power given the head-flow/cam/etc., and all of the dyno graphs past 100K miles that I saw, as well as the performance of my own car backs the point that they maintained a great seal. Tension isn't everything when it comes to a "ring". Do you know for a fact that your friend's LMT is over-gassed? How did you assess this?

I believe that the lower tension = lower friction offsets any possible advantage in "seal" created by the "tighter" rings. This goes along with dyno testing of Total Seal rings in engines, as well as anecdotal reports of those using the McFarland in their AR's and sometimes having issues due to increased friction.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/84732/how_piston_rings_affect_horsepower.aspx

Simple when I see gas escaping my rings it tells me I am losing operating pressure that could better used in pushing my bcg for a more functioning bcg.

WS6

08-01-12, 03:05

Simple when I see gas escaping my rings it tells me I am losing operating pressure that could better used in pushing my bcg for a more functioning bcg.

What change in ejection pattern or function did you note when you changed rings/your friend changed rings?

How or where are you "seeing gas escaping your rings"?

Thomas M-4

08-01-12, 03:22

My car is 99% assembled in Japan from 100% Japanese parts, or some such, per the sticker on the window. Otherwise, I would have tried to look you up, had I known! :D

The oil in your car must do a lot more work than the oil on the BCG. You need a maximum of about 5K rounds or so out of those rings before the bolt is a liability IMO. They will last plenty long enough, as you have already noted, probably even using Crisco or something.

Just because his rifle functioned after "failing" the ring test does not mean it is over-gassed. If that were the case, then you are saying that the design functions on a razor's edge tolerance. That means ANY debris would lock it up/cause failures. You cannot simply state that it is over-gassed just because it does what his did. What other reason would you think it was over-gassed? The system is designed for the ring-gaps to be staggered, and pass the test you mentioned.

BUT!

It is also designed to function (and it does) if the end-gaps align, and/or the rings are a little worn.

It's not a study in absolutes, or it would fail far more than is acceptable. Presuming otherwise would be like saying "On round 5,001, your bolt will break. If it doesn't, it's special/different/somehow made to another "spec".

No you are over simplifying the problem this is M4 C not tos. 3k to 5k is a minor differce you are talking about $17 per 4oz to way Less than $17 per quart for oil that is formulated for gas rings.

Thomas M-4

08-01-12, 03:23

What change in ejection pattern or function did you note when you changed rings/your friend changed rings?

How or where are you "seeing gas escaping your rings"?

Carbon gas tracks

Thomas M-4

08-01-12, 03:47

[QUOTE=WS6;1359930]My car is 99% assembled in Japan from 100% Japanese parts, or some such, per the sticker on the window. Otherwise, I would have tried to look you up, had I known! :D

The oil in your car must do a lot more work than the oil on the BCG. You need a maximum of about 5K rounds or so out of those rings before the bolt is a liability IMO. They will last plenty long enough, as you have already noted, probably even using Crisco or something.

Just because his rifle functioned after "failing" the ring test does not mean it is over-gassed. If that were the case, then you are saying that the design functions on a razor's edge tolerance. That means ANY debris would lock it up/cause failures. You cannot simply state that it is over-gassed just because it does what his did. What other reason would you think it was over-gassed? The system is designed for the ring-gaps to be staggered, and pass the test you mentioned.

BUT!

It is also designed to function (and it does) if the end-gaps align, and/or the rings are a little worn.

It's not a study in absolutes, or it would fail far more than is acceptable. Presuming otherwise would be like saying "On round 5,001, your bolt will break. If it doesn't, it's special/different/somehow made to another "spec".[/QUOTE

You already know that the oil in the crankcase does more work than the bcg ? What's the point. ? You are getting at?

WS6

08-01-12, 04:41

I really think you are attributing lubrication failure as a cause where it is not. CLP has kept these things running just fine, per the mil-spec, for quite some time. I have yet to experience CLP staying ON the gas-rings or the carrier's inside-wall where they ride for any length of time.

Hooch

08-02-12, 15:42

75% Mobile 1 25% ATF fluid.

Sierra276

08-02-12, 16:28

WillC...

WD40 has been in the game for so long... used for everything from cleaning / lubricating weapons to spraying down linked ammo...?

Fortunately as long as the weapon doesn't sit for to long it works pretty well...

I found out some of it's limitations some 30 years ago, when it was recommended for long term storage of mostly " Revolvers "...
( anyone remember what those are..? )

I put a nice liberal coating on a few prized possessions, and tucked them away in the safe... In about 6 month's I got them out for inspection / shooting, and found that I could almost not break them open, because the liquid had dried and had turned into a sticky lacquer...

It took a while, but a light penetrating oil was able to get things back to normal...

As long as your weapons or parts don't sit to long it still helps in some of those situations, when it does just what you need it to do...

Mer2112

08-03-12, 12:56

I don't think this was posted anywhere in this thread but if it was, I apologize.

An interesting test on how well certain lubes handle heat.

http://youtu.be/qQYAMTQAOoM

Edward78

08-03-12, 19:02

I use rem oil mobile 1

Univibe

08-08-12, 00:26

Steve in PA

08-08-12, 22:25

Until recently I have been using CLP and it worked just fine. This year I switched to Slip 2000 EWL and boy that stuff works great.

slowkota

08-10-12, 17:14

Break Free CLP for me!

Loupis

08-10-12, 17:32

Nothing beats the Frog! Also by the time you get to be an old man you will be thankful you didn't absorb all those chemicals through your skin.

slowkota

08-10-12, 20:57

I might try froglube when I run out of break free, just out've curiousity.

M4arc

08-10-12, 21:26

Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil. Cheap and works very very well.

Yep. I learned about it several years ago from Ken Hackathorn. I've been using it ever since on all my guns.

opdsgt

08-10-12, 22:49

wahoo95

08-10-12, 22:56

Mobil 1. Now that intrigues me. I'm about ready to re-up on SLiP2000 EWL and it's good, but costly. I imagine a quart of Mobil 1 would last, uh, about forever. A particular viscosity popular around here?

I guess the advantage to EWL is it doubles as a bore cleaner... hrmph.

I prefer 10w30, though some folks may prefer something else. I switched to Walmart Supertech Synthetic bout the year back and found that it works as well as Mobil 1 and cost a little less. Another bonus is that it doesn't burn off or run off and makes clean up easy since it prevents carbon build up.

Blame any misspellings on Tapatalk

opdsgt

08-11-12, 01:40

Fascinating. You're seeing less carbon fouling with the use of motor oil?

wahoo95

08-11-12, 07:36

Fascinating. You're seeing less carbon fouling with the use of motor oil?

Yes, its designed to prevent carbon build up inside your internal combustion engine which is a much more harsh environment.

Blame any misspellings on Tapatalk

ComradeBoris

08-11-12, 08:59

opdsgt

08-11-12, 09:20

Failure2Stop

08-11-12, 09:57

Given that decent lubes all work about the same, I stick with non-toxic, non-petroleum options.
Have happily used Froglube, and have been testing a good product called FireClean.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

WS6

08-11-12, 09:58

Not trying to troll, or derail, but it amazes me that people complain about the cost of slip and other products that cost about 7-12 dollars for 4oz or so that will last thousands of rounds when the gun its self ranges from a few hundred to over one thousand and the cost of the ammunition to utilize the whole bottle of lube is hundreds if not thousands of rounds. Just an observation. Personally I like the froglube but have like slip too. Most lubes work okay and I have used motor oil too. I just don't like the benze and carcinogenic aspect of products like that anymore and minimize it where I can. But that is the choice I make and someone else using what they want isn't right or worng either.

CLP actually causes skin issues on my hands. I am not allergic to much, nor do I think I am "allergic" to CLP, but every time I used to clean a weapon and get CLP on my hands, I would notice a few weeks to a month later that I had small, clear inclusions on my hand. They looked like some sort of flat wart, but did not have that pathology, it just looked like maybe a hyperplasia of localized squamous tissue, and I fixed it with liquid nitrogen or a simple "wart off" deal from Walgreens.

At first I figured it was just coincidence, but this happened without fail, every single time CLP was on my hands for 10-15 minutes or longer, year after year, cleaning weapons. From when I was a teenager until now, in my mid 20's, when I am finally done of it. I feel strongly enough so as to call it a causative factor, considering that when I did not go shooting for long periods of time in college as I was busy with other things, I did not note this, but as soon as I went shooting and cleaned with CLP, few weeks or so later, I noticed a few of these spots on my skin.

My point is, CLP probably won't kill me, but for me, I think it does stuff I would rather it not do, so I stick with Froglube, as it will do just fine, and has not caused this. I deal with HEP A,B,C, HIV, CDIFF, MRSA, VRE, and a whole host of other things on a daily basis at work, and the hell with dealing with chemicals or anything carcinogenic that can hurt me in my off-time when the only rational support argument is "It may help you get 100K rounds out of your upper instead of only 95K rounds". I can afford to pay $20 per $2,000 worth of ammo shot to lubricate/clean/protect my weapons. That argument is stupid, too, the way I see it.

Failure2Stop

08-11-12, 10:26

CLP has been linked to warts for several years now. I avoid it.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

ComradeBoris

08-11-12, 12:11

CLP actually causes skin issues on my hands. I am not allergic to much, nor do I think I am "allergic" to CLP, but every time I used to clean a weapon and get CLP on my hands, I would notice a few weeks to a month later that I had small, clear inclusions on my hand. They looked like some sort of flat wart, but did not have that pathology, it just looked like maybe a hyperplasia of localized squamous tissue, and I fixed it with liquid nitrogen or a simple "wart off" deal from Walgreens.

At first I figured it was just coincidence, but this happened without fail, every single time CLP was on my hands for 10-15 minutes or longer, year after year, cleaning weapons. From when I was a teenager until now, in my mid 20's, when I am finally done of it. I feel strongly enough so as to call it a causative factor, considering that when I did not go shooting for long periods of time in college as I was busy with other things, I did not note this, but as soon as I went shooting and cleaned with CLP, few weeks or so later, I noticed a few of these spots on my skin.

My point is, CLP probably won't kill me, but for me, I think it does stuff I would rather it not do, so I stick with Froglube, as it will do just fine, and has not caused this. I deal with HEP A,B,C, HIV, CDIFF, MRSA, VRE, and a whole host of other things on a daily basis at work, and the hell with dealing with chemicals or anything carcinogenic that can hurt me in my off-time when the only rational support argument is "It may help you get 100K rounds out of your upper instead of only 95K rounds". I can afford to pay $20 per $2,000 worth of ammo shot to lubricate/clean/protect my weapons. That argument is stupid, too, the way I see it.

I absolutely agree with you and F2S

ComradeBoris

08-11-12, 12:13

I hear you Boris, but if you shoot a lot and you shoot several different rifles, and if you clean them beyond a bore snake and BCG wipe-down, a 4oz bottle of EWL isn't going to last too awful long.

I shoot, almost exclusively, steel case on high round count days. This necessitates a fairly prodigious application of lube to keep the rifle running properly. Having a cost effective alternative to EWL for those instances seems like common sense to me.

On the advice of others here, I'm going to give a bottle of Mobil 1 a try.

Agreed, as I said before I have the ability to choose so I do. I have two hard use pistols, and one hard use rifle that I use for training but otherwise is just a HD gun. I don't have tons of weapons so I can get by on FL paste and CLP just fine. If I had an armory to maintain I would probably look to cheaper options.

sinlessorrow

08-11-12, 12:45

CLP has been linked to warts for several years now. I avoid it.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

not only is CLP hazardous to our health, it also sucks as a lube.

It dries up incredibly fast, growing up I always used it and on AR-15's I would have to re-lube ever 100 our so rounds because it would be dry.

I finally saw the light and now use Frog Lube and couldn't be happier, its so good you can eat it......literally.

theblackknight

08-11-12, 12:51

Mobil 1 for oil,TB25 for grease, supertech carb cleaner if my rifle ever needs a clean.

slowkota

08-11-12, 16:26

CLP has been linked to warts for several years now. I avoid it.

Seriously?

WS6

08-11-12, 17:25

CLP has been linked to warts for several years now. I avoid it.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

Warts are caused by the HPV virus, at least, in the traditional sense. Has CLP actually been linked to making a person's hands more susceptible to this, or does CLP cause hyperplasia by another mechanism than increasing viral susceptibility?

Failure2Stop

08-11-12, 17:31

Warts are caused by the HPV virus, at least, in the traditional sense. Has CLP actually been linked to making a person's hands more susceptible to this, or does CLP cause hyperplasia by another mechanism than increasing viral susceptibility?

I don't think that it actually contains the virus, but it causes a reaction in the skin that is very similar to a wart.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

WS6

08-11-12, 18:15

I don't think that it actually contains the virus, but it causes a reaction in the skin that is very similar to a wart.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

That makes more sense. I understand that the layman's term is "wart" and so that is what is commonly used to describe the hyperplasia observed, thanks for verifying. I observed this with no research outside of my own experience, and so I have no bias to have correlated the two because of anything I "knew", but it parallels my personal experience with the chemical 100%.

og556

08-11-12, 20:47

I just switched my Glocks, Sig, and AR's to froglube.

I use a combo of the paste and the liquid.

Over the next few months I'll see how it does but it does smell good and I like the fact this stuff is non toxic. It stays put too which weaponshield did as well but we'll see how it does.

carl.c

08-13-12, 12:36

+1 on Froglube
I've used it for about a year now for my AR, Glock, and AK. Good stuff. And it's my little way to give back to the environment with a bio-friendly solvent after dumping tons of lead around :)

orionz06

08-13-12, 12:56

Finally had a chance to use Frog Lube. Unimpressed. It works like all other lubes, no magic was to be seen. I even had a major parts failure with my carbine but it was unrelated to the lube. I will continue to use the bottle I have now whenever and use what I have been for a while now because they both work, one is free.

markm

08-13-12, 13:00

Finally had a chance to use Frog Lube. Unimpressed. It works like all other lubes, no magic was to be seen.

Did you run it in an AR? On a pistol or something... it's not as thrilling.

But when you warm that AR up after a half a mag and that FrogLube starts flowing and going like crazy, it's amazing.

I just add a few drops in the cam pin area every other shoot, and it stays really juicy.

orionz06

08-13-12, 13:01

AR and G17's.

markm

08-13-12, 13:10

Ban him, Boys! :p

sinlessorrow

08-13-12, 13:31

AR and G17's.

We dont like your kind around these parts:suicide:

darwing31

08-13-12, 13:43

I like frog lube. Not because I think its the best lube (it seems to work as good as most other lubes) but when I clean my firearms I tend to do 3 to 6 or more at a time. I like that I don't have to use gloves to prevent my hands from absorbing and smelling like gun oil.

Ghostmaker

08-15-12, 02:13

Frog Lube

TW25B

Slip 2000

Mobil 1

opdsgt

08-15-12, 08:18

Do any of you Mobil 1 users actually run the stuff through the bore occasionally, or are you simply bore-snaking the barrel, doing a BCG wipe down, and relubing?

The_War_Wagon

08-15-12, 08:27

Weaponshield! Made in the US of A - about 5 miles away from where I'm sitting! :D

coyote hunter

08-20-12, 14:33

My favorite lube?

http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Oil-Stroke-6-7-fluid-Ounce/dp/B005J4C0E6/ref=pd_sim_hpc_9

:D

Ha, had to.

But really I use a 50/50 mix of ATF and 10w-30

And some CLP here and there

Ir0nHide

08-20-12, 14:48

Regular old CLP for me... And sometimes sometimes Rem Oil.

markm

08-20-12, 14:51

Regular old CLP for me... And sometimes sometimes Rem Oil.

The two worst pics for lube? :confused:

I like CLP for cleaning, but it's mediocre at lubing a weapon. And Rem Oil has been described as a "light sporting oil" at best.

Ir0nHide

08-20-12, 14:54

The two worst pics for lube? :confused:

I like CLP for cleaning, but it's mediocre at lubing a weapon. And Rem Oil has been described as a "light sporting oil" at best.

Lol, maybe i'll jump on the Frog lube band wagon soon. But CLP is readily available to me for dirt cheap, so for now it is my primary choice. Rem oil is mostly used to help protect against rust while my weapons are stored in the cabinet. Seems to handle that job adequately.

markm

08-20-12, 14:56

Believe me.... I have a full gallon of CLP in my cabinet. I use it.

But the first time you get a couple of sessions with the Froglube, you'll be hooked.

Animal_Mother556

08-21-12, 07:32

It works like all other lubes, no magic was to be seen.

You said it yourself...it works like all other lubes.

The "magic" for me, is that it is non-toxic, and smells good.

markm

08-21-12, 08:35

You said it yourself...it works like all other lubes.

The "magic" for me, is that it is non-toxic, and smells good.

Not for me. The non toxic is what made me doubt it for so long.

It's that it sets up when the gun is cool, and liquifies when the gun is hot that is awesome. In other words... the shit doesn't run off in the safe. It's there when you shoot the gun.

orionz06

08-21-12, 08:37

It's that it sets up when the gun is cool, and liquifies when the gun is hot that is awesome. In other words... the shit doesn't run off in the safe. It's there when you shoot the gun.

I can get behind that idea. The marketing of it (seasoning and that bullshit) turns me off of it but that's for the FrogLube thread.

Animal_Mother556

08-21-12, 19:00

Not for me. The non toxic is what made me doubt it for so long.

It's that it sets up when the gun is cool, and liquifies when the gun is hot that is awesome. In other words... the shit doesn't run off in the safe. It's there when you shoot the gun.

That too

Huskyfever03

08-21-12, 20:06

CLP here. Might give mobil 1 a try next trip out

Magic_Salad0892

08-21-12, 21:24

Used Frog Lube a bit.

Works amazing for suppressed guns. And it smells kinda like my deoderant.

The Virus

08-21-12, 21:27

Switched to Froglube about a year ago, very happy with it.

Cowtown556

08-22-12, 08:33

Slip 2000 or Mobil1

jb1911

08-22-12, 17:33

Slip 2000 or Mobil1

This ^

SteveL

08-22-12, 17:42

I've been using Frog Lube for several months now and I'm happy with it.

BTL BRN

08-23-12, 14:53

Though I am not inclined to switch easily from Slip EWL and EWG, I do use white lithium grease in my AK's; it stays put/wet and doesn't gum up, any luck with AR's as well? :confused:

Wulfmann

08-25-12, 10:08

I clean all ARs with Kroil and use Mobile 1 (5W20) for lube

For my bolt guns I use Ballistol for cleaning (Most of my bolts are K98k Mausers) and very little lube but still Mobile 1 when I do

I have about every imaginable lube and cleaner collected over the years sitting in the cabinet but the above work best as far as I can tell.
In fact I just counted them, 21 different solvents of cleaners and lubes

I also use Sweet's on occasion for copper fouling removal

I can't help but like the fact Mobile 1 is free to me because just letting the containers drip after an oil change in the Benz is more than enough lube for my needs and I actually shoot a fair amount about 25K rounds annually

Wulfmann

McClintoc

08-25-12, 10:56

A couple of years ago I snagged a free tube of this stuff.

http://www.magnalube.com/

I have been happy with it. I run it in all three of my rifles and my Glock 22. Plus, the free tube is about the size of a regular tube of tooth paste so it will last me a while. :cool:

hardcharger

09-06-12, 06:12

I would like to hear your opinion on this oil seems to be getting good marks on it?

ra2bach

09-06-12, 12:28

Bluto

09-06-12, 16:23

Gunbutter!

Especially after the wife fought me with her hair drier... Cleaning my rifle...right...

sinlessorrow

09-06-12, 19:52

I've tried CLP, Motor oil, SLIP2000, Remoil, Militec(god help us all), and Frog Lube and by far the best is frog lube.

tpdavis89

09-06-12, 22:39

sinlessorrow

09-06-12, 23:12

I've been using SLIP 2000 EWL for the last few years on my work and personal weapon. So far I have zero complaint with SLIP. Although after reading all these reviews of Frog Lube, I think I'm going to give that a try once I get back to the states.

If you want some to test let me know, I can pour some into a little eye dropper bottle and send it your way.

Confed-rifleman

09-06-12, 23:50

Mobil 1 and Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer (50/50). Doesn't burn off a fast as the cheaper gun oils. Mixing the two still only cost around $24/half gallon. I have also noticed that it seems easier to clean up the carbon. Dumped the Rem-Oil etc. on firearms a while ago but it still works well on door hinges.

Dragun

09-07-12, 12:35

Have you froglube converts discarded all your previously used cleaners and lubricants or do you use them for specific purposes?

markm

09-07-12, 12:38

Have you froglube converts discarded all your previously used cleaners and lubricants or do you use them for specific purposes?

Keep the CLP for cleaning. Don't know what to do with the Mobile 1. :confused:

jmart

09-07-12, 16:10

Keep the CLP for cleaning. Don't know what to do with the Mobile 1. :confused:

You gotta car? Just a silly thought I had......;)

cav.scout2000

12-10-12, 13:11

Just thought I'd share this information. I recently tried slip stream weapons lube and was throughly impressed so it got me curious. I wanted to see if I could make my own, and i succeeded. I talked to chemical engineer friend of mine and figured out the secret nano ingredient. Its nothing more than tungsten disulfide. So I ordered a pound from lower friction and grabbed a quart of mobil1 0W-20 and wala slipstream. I mixed 10 grams of tungsten disulfide to 3 oz of oil. Just thought I would share the info. That pound of tungsten disulfide is good for a gallon and a half of oil so it goes a long way.

markm

12-10-12, 13:21

I tried to do this with Froglube...

Blenderized a bunch of frogs and mint leaves... didn't work. :(

The_Hammer_Man

12-10-12, 13:24

I tried to do this with Froglube...

Blenderized a bunch of frogs and mint leaves... didn't work. :(

Slow news day at your place markm?

To the OP:

Thanks for the info.. I'll give it a try :)

markm

12-10-12, 13:32

Slow news day at your place markm?

Big Time! Everyone must be out Christmas shopping instead of on this site. posting :(

NWPilgrim

12-10-12, 13:35

Interesting. I read the Wiki article on WS2 and it says it forms nano tubes (only inorganic substance to do so). Better temperature range than MoS2 (650c versus 400C).

I might have to try this. :D Add it to my collection of various lubes (all of which work fine but curiosity gets the best of me).

cav.scout2000

12-10-12, 13:40

It really does work well! I can tell no difference between my lube and slipstream.

markm

12-10-12, 13:51

It really does work well! I can tell no difference between my lube and slipstream.

Is Slipstream from the same company that does Slip2000?..

cav.scout2000

12-10-12, 13:53

No slip stream is made by crusader weaponry.

sinlessorrow

12-10-12, 13:56

No slip stream is made by crusader weaponry.

Aka mad ogre.

cav.scout2000

12-10-12, 14:18

Slipstream really is good lube. I'm just curious and like to tinker. Just thought there might be other tinkers like me that don't want to pay inflated weapons lube prices. Also, it's just plain fun!

AKDoug

12-10-12, 15:01

I've been running Fireclean for the last month now. Functions down to -20F, which is important to me. Carbon wipes right off. Non-toxic like Froglube. Pretty much on par with Froglube for what I can tell, but completely odorless.

carbinero

12-10-12, 15:11

ra2bach

12-10-12, 15:46

carbinero

12-10-12, 15:59

as far as I can tell oil is oil. there are some who prefer good old motor oil for the economy and this seems to work well. and then there are the "up-level", gun specific, oils like SLIP, Machinegunners Lube, and Weaponshield, which cost more.

and then there are the next paradigm lubes like Frog Lube, which goes on wet, dries, and then gets wet again when it heats up. this seems enough of a departure from the "wet" lubes that I believe it's worth a try.

based on the fact that there is little observable difference between the "wet" lubes, anything which is significantly more expensive is not something I'm willing to try in this category...

Sounds to me like Frog is like Mad Dog XF-7, posted 4 years up (how many pages ago?) I emailed the creator of Weaponshield who said WS would migrate under the XF-7 and do its job. So I just cut out the middleman and stick with WS.

He also said Machine Gunners is more for full auto, and for semi WS is the right stuff.

AKDoug

12-10-12, 16:02

Interesting Fireclean; hadn't heard of that before.

I noted the instructions say don't use anything else on it...would that be a problem? I hate the whole "degrease to treat" regimine.

...as opposed to Weaponshield which says Whatever! the WS will migrate as needed.

You can send an email to Fireclean to confirm, but I was told to just use Fireclean as a cleaner, wipe clean, then lube with Fireclean.

carbinero

12-10-12, 16:08

sinlessorrow

12-10-12, 16:15

Littlelebowski

12-10-12, 16:38

It really does work well! I can tell no difference between my lube and slipstream.

Same smell?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Wake27

12-10-12, 16:42

http://www.cleanergun.com/Application.html

"1) Degrease unloaded gun. ... We do not recommend the use other oils, cleaners, or lubricants once applied."

Same type routine as xf-7, and Frog, IIRC.

I prefer a lube that doesn't require degreasing first. IMHO.

I'm the same way. Militec is what I first used on all of my weapons, so it's what stays on there. Not that I have any complaints with it.

cav.scout2000

12-10-12, 17:31

The carrier fluid really isn't that important. What is important is the tungsten disulfide. The carrier just gets it where you want it. When it works in it bondson the atomic level up to. 5 microns thick. So even when the carrier lubricant cooks off the nano lubrication is still present.

Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) is dry/solid lubricant powder and is one of the most lubricious substance in world. WS2 offers excellant dry lubricity (COF: 0.03) unmatched to any other substance, including Graphite or Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2).

Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) can also be used in high temperature and high pressure applications. It offers temperature resistance from -450 deg F (-270º C) to 1200 deg F (650º C) in normal atmosphere and from -305 deg F (-188º C) to 2400º F (1316º C) in Vacuum. Load bearing ability of coated film is extremely high at 300,000 psi.

Tungsten Disulfide (WS2) can also be used instaed of Molybdenum Disulfide (MoS2). See comparison of WS2 / MoS2

Since the powder offers one of the lowest Coefficient of Friction (Dynamic @ 0.03 & Static @ 0.07), the applications are unlimited and could be tried with every conceivable idea. .

Two established ways the WS2 powder can be used are:

1) Mixing the WS2 powder with wet lubricants (such as oil, grease & other synthetic lubricants): The powder can be mixed 1wt% to 15wt% (as required) with grease or oil. This will enhance lubricity of the mixture and also improves High Temperature and Extreme Pressure properties of mixture. During the use, WS2 in the mixture will get coated on mating/moving parts, which in turn reduces friction and improves lubricity and load bearing ability for much longer cycles.

2) Coating the WS2 powder on a substrate requiring (dry) lubricity: The powder can be coated by spraying (at 120 psi) the substrate with dry (& cool) pneumatic air. It does not require any binders and spraying can be done at normal room temperature. Coated film will be 0.5 micron thick. In an alternative application method, the powder can also be mixed with Isopropyl alcohol and this paste could be buffed to the substrate. The coating applications are already established in many areas such as Automotive parts, Racing Car Engine and other parts, Aerospace parts, Bearings (Linear, Ball, Roller etc), Shafts, Marine parts, Cutting Tools, Blades, Slitters, Knives, Mold release, Precision Gears, Valve components, Pistons, Chains, Machinery components and many other areas.

Littlelebowski

12-10-12, 17:51

I'd be careful throwing out stuff like "nano bonding" without evidence.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

cav.scout2000

12-10-12, 18:02

This isn't a new substance! Is been in use since 96. Stanford university developed it for NASA. It does bond on a molecular level,that's the whole purpose of this material. NASA used it in the space program as a lubricant that would work in zero gravity where liquid lubrication would not. So it has been thourghly vetted as far as I'm concerned. Do some research on it.

Littlelebowski

12-10-12, 18:05

Dude, I just want to know if said bonding has been verified after Joe Schmuckatelli whips some up in his garage.

On another note, I have written about this before....

http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2011/09/firearms-lubricants.html

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

orionz06

12-10-12, 18:09

I will continue to use all the other stuff that has worked and instead spend some spare time dry firing rather than worrying about lube differences that are unquantifiable. Sure there is better out there but I'll never know the difference. Dry fire produces measurable results.

carbinero

12-10-12, 18:12

I tried making my own nano-lube, but instead it self-replicated and transmogrified until it made a replica of my own gun, which then held me up at gun point for the money I was saving to buy some more weaponshield. Learn from my mistake, won't you?

cav.scout2000

12-10-12, 18:15

I get it I'm a skeptical person to. Ive done alot of research on WS2 and it really is a great material with great promise in a firearms application. There have been many studies done on this material and is molecular bonding to a substrate. There is alot of info out there on it. I just thought some people like me would like to play around with it. It has worked exceptionally well in my firearms, just thought I'd share the info. That other article looked like someone mixed moly with a ptfe base. Moly can't take the heat!

cav.scout2000

12-10-12, 18:29

You do realize that's firearms lubricants are repurposed from other industries mainly industrial, aerospace, etc... with an inflated price tag.

ra2bach

12-10-12, 19:45

Sounds to me like Frog is like Mad Dog XF-7, posted 4 years up (how many pages ago?) I emailed the creator of Weaponshield who said WS would migrate under the XF-7 and do its job. So I just cut out the middleman and stick with WS.

He also said Machine Gunners is more for full auto, and for semi WS is the right stuff.

I'll go along with this. I started using Weaponshield because the guy sent me a free sample in a nifty precision oiler. He came here and discussed his claims calmly and professionally and it does smell like cinnamon... :D

I put it on the rails of a new SIG P226 and in a thousand rounds, I did notice much less wear than I have seen on my other SIGs with other lubes in the past. I was sold.

but I have a small tube of Slip 2000 in the VFG of one of my guns and some Machine gunners lube in the buttstock of another. I wouldn't hesitate to use and rely on any of these which is why I said I feel one oil-based lube is "probably" like another. I'm not sure if using one over another is a good thing but hope as long as I keep it wet, it will do what I'm looking for.

however, when I run out of the WS, I intend to try the Froglube as I have a friend who switched over to it for his carry gun and he's sold on the nontoxic properties and the idea that it doesn't run...

Yama Arashi

12-11-12, 10:49

Plain ol' Hoppe's oil and Slide Glide have always worked fine for me.

WS6

12-11-12, 14:05

I took my Noveske 14.5" Midlength M4 to Viking Tactics Carbine 1.5 course.

The course was excellent, instruction world-class, and I highly recommend this to ANYONE who is ready to take their training to the next level. Many people in attendance from local SWAT to Force Recon learned new things, techniques, etc. and everyone had a great time! Huge +1 for Viking Tactics!

Anyway, back to the M4, since that's what this sub-section is about...

We fired (well, I fired) just shy of 1700 rounds through my M4 over the 3 day course.

I began with a clean, properly lubricated weapon. I used MPro-7 LPX.

That's it.

There was no wiping, cleaning, spitting into the BCG, nothing. I just "forgot" to do a damn thing for the weapon (except to lube the switchblock and move it around to prevent carbon from freezing it...which turned out to be pointless. The 2nd and 3rd day I just left it alone, and it was just fine when I got home, Noveske is right––-don't lube it, just move it every few hundred rounds and you will be G2G).

The results?

2 failures.

The first happened toward the 500 round mark. The weapon had locked back on an empty chamber (I glanced), and when I slammed a new mag home and pressed the bolt release, I got a double-feed. Was the first round in the mag dis-lodged coming out of my mag-pouch and thrown into the chamber and a second one fed? I don't know. I can't blame this on the rifle, though, as it locked back on empty, and the problem came when a new mag was inserted. Mag failure? User error? I don't know. It never happened again.

The second failure occurred on the last few hundred rounds of the course. I rode the charging handle after a mag-change during an administrative reload after I had shot a drill. Again, user error.

Other than that, sewing machine. It always locked back on an empty mag, etc. Flawless.

Buy a quality AR, and you won't have to be such a prude about keeping it clean. Just lube it every few thousand rounds or so, and it seems G2G. The bolt would fully seat when gently dry-cycling the weapon, after I got home, btw.

Here is what the weapon looked like when I got home today and broke it down:

http://i47.tinypic.com/34owpbd.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/21dq00i.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/2aerwhh.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/33tgxli.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2q828v9.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/34pxedu.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/zjdnci.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2j466af.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/4iom7s.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/jt40vp.jpg

Over-all, the whole course re-affirmed my opinion that the M4 is a helluva weapon, and plenty durable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_KDvsZcPy4

Anyway, on to clean-up...

http://i46.tinypic.com/24wx0nk.jpg

WS6

12-11-12, 14:10

I have spoken with George Fennel over the years and he is a true tribologist, not some tinkerer.

I have some Weapon Shield, and I like MPro7 LPX.

I am going to lube up two brand new carbines with each and run 'em 500 rounds and break them down and inspect wear.

I bought the uppers/BCG's for my friends for Christmas, and will buy a case of ammo between them for them to familiarize and learn the weapons with. The Weapon Shield test will be interesting as an addendum.

Personally, as much as I like Mr. Fennel, I am really liking MPro7-LPX.

carbinero

12-11-12, 14:21

I look forward to reading your comparison between WS and LPX. My last experience with MPRO was with a cleaner they have that is soapy. I didn't like that much, although I'm sure it has a great use. I like the description of LPX, as it sounds like WS which is what I want: a premium CLP.

ETA: as we read these posts, just to summarize some of the factors: lubricity, corrosion protection, ease of clean-up, lack of toxicity/bothersome odor. Yet another important factor is price per usage, which is interesting in that some fluid ounces seem to go further than others...

WS6

12-11-12, 14:36

One thing I like about Pantheon is that they aren't shy about their products. Unlike so many others, they provided me with REAL data.

http://i47.tinypic.com/maazhv.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/2v3se1x.jpg

So far, the only product that has beaten LPX at corrosion prevention when subjected to saline solution without a thick film to provide physical barrier (like grease, or Froglube paste, etc.) has been Break-Free CLP. I have not tested Eezox. Boeshield T9 did poorly, as well, when wiped. It is a barrier type protectant it would seem. LPX and Breakfree CLP appear to offer chemical anti-corrosion protection.

Weaponshield does somewhat poorly at this, in comparison.

carbinero

12-11-12, 15:18

If I were near salt water, I'd look closely at Eezox along with LPX, although I'm surprised to hear of WS working poorly compared to BreakFree.

sinlessorrow

12-11-12, 16:24

I'm the same way. Militec is what I first used on all of my weapons, so it's what stays on there. Not that I have any complaints with it.

I would be careful using Militec.

http://books.google.com/books?output=html_text&id=sDZonEVMgb4C&dq=militec+banned&jtp=1

Not only is it an incredibly poor lubricant as shown in the document it also contains Chlorinated Esters that can lead to stress corrosion cracking of steel and metals when subjected to high load pressure/heat/stress(hmmm sounds like a bolt and chamber when fired).