View Full Version : NTAC holster, similar to Raven Phamtom.
Does anyone own a NTAC holster? They appear similar to Raven Phamtom, but about $10.00 cheaper. I'm interested in its functionality.
http://www.ntacholsters.com/store/Default.asp
rip off of raven so they probably work pretty good ;)
As I recall, they actually bought a holster from Raven when they were getting started, and then started producing incredibly similar designs.
We throw around phrases like "buy once, cry once" and "you get what you pay for", but everyone wants to save a buck. Buy Raven Concealment or Peters Custom Holsters, know that you'll be supported down the line, and know that you're not supporting intellectual dishonesty.
We throw around phrases like "buy once, cry once" and "you get what you pay for", but everyone wants to save a buck. Buy Raven Concealment or Peters Custom Holsters, know that you'll be supported down the line, and know that you're not supporting intellectual dishonesty.
Good advise!
Tennvol12345
04-25-10, 17:22
As I recall, they actually bought a holster from Raven when they were getting started, and then started producing incredibly similar designs.
Just wondering..........you have a source/reference for the above statement? Not saying that it did/didn't happen, just wanted to see proof.
Oh I think maybe you use your google Fu and find out
there is a lot of truth to Jakes statement and others......
Anyone know or work with the guy(s) who run NTAC? I know guys who personally recommend Jay @ Raven, that his holsters are great is secondary -- you know what I'm saying?
So, do we know the principals at NTAC? If so, I'd like to hear about them.
Buy Raven Concealment or Peters Custom Holsters, know that you'll be supported down the line, and know that you're not supporting intellectual dishonesty.
Couldn't agree more, but one does have to wonder how much NTAC may be helped by the increased backlog at RCS and the inevitable griping and disgruntledness has followed.
Couldn't agree more, but one does have to wonder how much NTAC may be helped by the increased backlog at RCS and the inevitable griping and disgruntledness has followed.
This. I don't have 5mos to wait for a couple holsters and besides... we're talking about Kydex holsters here. I wasn't aware Raven Concealment had a patent on all things Kydex. If they could get people holsters in a timely manner then we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm just calling it as I see it from the standpoint of someone looking for someone to give his money to for a product and wants to know who can get it to him quickest. I don't think people should be criminalized for discussing it.
Then Dont wait.:rolleyes:
Criminal is taking someones Else's hard work and idea's and copying them for profit.
There are some design differences between the NTAC and Raven...I own both, NTAC for G17+TLR-1 and Raven M&P+TLR-1. Unless something has recently changed with NTAC the Raven is built with thicker kydex. It's also a bit 'thinner' in terms of thickness of the gun. Also the area of the top of the holster where the light is inserted is MUCH wider on the NTAC, so much so that I can easily slip a finger in there and pull the trigger.
Otherwise pretty similar products. Haven't had issues with either. One thing I do like about the NTAC double mag carriers is the raised edge on the rear of the carrier. IT comes up about an inch or so higher then the outside of the carrier, making it easier to insert a mag and not pinch yourself.
This. I don't have 5mos to wait for a couple holsters and besides... we're talking about Kydex holsters here. I wasn't aware Raven Concealment had a patent on all things Kydex. If they could get people holsters in a timely manner then we wouldn't be having this discussion. I'm just calling it as I see it from the standpoint of someone looking for someone to give his money to for a product and wants to know who can get it to him quickest. I don't think people should be criminalized for discussing it.
I dont think anyone is trying to criminalize anyone for discussing it.
There is a long wait on Raven products right now. They were/are a small operation that brought a great product to the market and now are flooded with orders. From what I've talked to Tom about, they are doing everything they can and are ramping up operations to get the wait time down.
I have ran Raven hard and have talked to the guys quite a bit and have nothing bad to say about them.
NTAC probably makes a great holster, your right its kydex, very similar. The owner is here in Michigan and many of us know and have met him. But would like to see original ideas and products, not an almost exact rip of some one else's ideas and ingenuity. Hence why i wait for raven gear when I could possible get a very similar product in less time.
So its a personal choice that each of us have to make, yes there is a wait time.. a long one. But they make a great product and even more importantly, they stand behind it 100 percent you can rest assured if you have a problem it will be fixed, period.
Just ran the holster through a MDFI class yesterday and have a Magpul next month, love the stuff.
Then Dont wait.:rolleyes:
I won't.
Criminal is taking someones Else's hard work and idea's and copying them for profit.
It's a Kydex holster. Since when does Raven Concealment own EVERYTHING that is Kydex firearm holsters? Let's face it, it's not an all new idea and it's not like they were the first ones to do it. They made a slightly better mousetrap but it wasn't different enough to patent or it would be. That means that if you can't meet demand then others will step up to fill that supply need which has been done. Aside from Raven Concealment gaining fame from the Dynamic Handgun vidoes how are they different aside from needing to wait up to 6mos for a holster? I'm sure they're a great bunch of guys based on what I've read but I (along with MANY others) aren't going to wait around until winter to get holsters. I just don't think a fellow member should be attacked for asking a simple harmless question. Where would we be now if there weren't so many manufacturer's of the same firearm platforms? Most are the same exact thing with their name stamped on the side. Again, if Raven could meet demand then I don't think we would be having this conversation. The NTAC is about $20 less, may not be quite as good and doesn't require several months wait to get one either. Seems like a good option to me.
I dont think anyone is trying to criminalize anyone for discussing it.
There is a long wait on Raven products right now. They were/are a small operation that brought a great product to the market and now are flooded with orders. From what I've talked to Tom about, they are doing everything they can and are ramping up operations to get the wait time down.
I have ran Raven hard and have talked to the guys quite a bit and have nothing bad to say about them.
NTAC probably makes a great holster, your right its kydex, very similar. The owner is here in Michigan and many of us know and have met him. But would like to see original ideas and products, not an almost exact rip of some one else's ideas and ingenuity. Hence why i wait for raven gear when I could possible get a very similar product in less time.
So its a personal choice that each of us have to make, yes there is a wait time.. a long one. But they make a great product and even more importantly, they stand behind it 100 percent you can rest assured if you have a problem it will be fixed, period.
Just ran the holster through a MDFI class yesterday and have a Magpul next month, love the stuff.
You say that Raven stands behind their stuff and I get that but it shouldn't be ignored that NTAC also has a lifetime warranty and based on their website also stands behind their product 100% so I wouldn't say that waiting is necessarily going to be netting you more customer service. After all, isn't being able to get product to a consumer in a timely manner a form of customer service? Just saying....
They're both US companies and both offering a similar product so I don't understand why some are trying to bash NTAC and make it sound like you are contributing to theft if you buy or even ask about them. I'm sorry but the wait times to get a friggin' holster from Raven is just foolish. Sure if you have something now and can wait and like the Raven product better than fine... so be it. Some people like me just added a weapon light to a handgun and need a holster sooner than later and can't afford to wait. So for people like me there's another option and trying to criminalize them for doing so simply isn't fair. Remember, we're talking about kydex and a holster... neither of which did Raven Concealment invent and other manufacturers have been making kydex holsters LONG before Raven Concealment.
Like I said, i dont think that anyone is criminalizing anyone. we are simply stating why most of us here that know both companies choose raven.
And yes Rave doesnt "own" everything Kydex. but can you name one manufacture that was identical to ravens design, before raven?
and there is some "behind the scene" things that dont need to be aired on a public forum.
I havnt read one time anyone say that NTAC make crappy holsters, or that they wont cover them, or that the wait time is more.
i know alot of people that run NTAC and like them. and if thats what you want buy it, run it, and enjoy.
Some of us stated why we stick with Raven and why we choose to wait, no big deal.
im sure you'll be happy with NTAC, i hear they make a great holster.
Like I said, i dont think that anyone is criminalizing anyone. we are simply stating why most of us here that know both companies choose raven.
And yes Rave doesnt "own" everything Kydex. but can you name one manufacture that was identical to ravens design, before raven?
and there is some "behind the scene" things that dont need to be aired on a public forum.
I havnt read one time anyone say that NTAC make crappy holsters, or that they wont cover them, or that the wait time is more.
i know alot of people that run NTAC and like them. and if thats what you want buy it, run it, and enjoy.
Some of us stated why we stick with Raven and why we choose to wait, no big deal.
im sure you'll be happy with NTAC, i hear they make a great holster.
I have no problems with this post since it's subjective and lends towards good discussion and this is how we as consumers choose the best product for our buying dollar. I just didn't like the way this thread was headed right out of the gate and didn't feel it was very subjective. The OP asked if they were similar products and it's pretty clear that they are. All that's left if nothing illegal is happening is price and customer service including how soon a customer can get the product. Some will weigh these things differently but to someone who needs a holster now or sooner then that's going to be a more pressing issue. Right now it's the little things that separate company A from company B so those are what need to be considered when making your decision.
Hi guys,
I won't comment on any other holster manufacturers. There are a lot of options available in the market and I encourage everyone to select the version that best fits their needs.
how are they different aside from needing to wait up to 6mos for a holster?
But I will address this as it directly relates to us. We have never had a 6 month turn around time.
We currently have a backlog, as do many other holster manufacturers. It isn't uncommon to wait a year or more with some other companies, and they still have a thriving pipeline because their customers feel the wait is worth it.
Everyone will have a different opinion on how long a holster "should" take to arrive, that is subjective. All I can say is to ask around, our gear is worth the wait.
Take care,
spamsammich
04-26-10, 13:54
My wait time for a RCS Phantom for my g19 was almost 60 days to the day. The appear to be using thicker kydex for the belt loops now. I'm completely happy with it and the wait time considering the demand and my situation.
Hi guys,
I won't comment on any other holster manufacturers. There are a lot of options available in the market and I encourage everyone to select the version that best fits their needs.
But I will address this as it directly relates to us. We have never had a 6 month turn around time.
We currently have a backlog, as do many other holster manufacturers. It isn't uncommon to wait a year or more with some other companies, and they still have a thriving pipeline because their customers feel the wait is worth it.
Everyone will have a different opinion on how long a holster "should" take to arrive, that is subjective. All I can say is to ask around, our gear is worth the wait.
Take care,
I had to go back to see what you were referring to and now I see that it was a typo on my part. I meant to say 3 months. I realize you make a good product and am not questioning that. I'm not even bringing the price difference into account. What I'm having a problem with is the timeframe it takes to receive a kydex holster. You say it's worth the wait and I can appreciate the backing of your own product but that's a very subjective statement because some people simply can't wait. 3mos is simply not an option for many buyers. I feel like you believe that everyone is willing to wait and you're not losing business but you are. I would like nothing more than to give you my money for two optioned out holsters but I, like many consumers, can't/won't wait for 3 moths w/o any solid effort brig made to cur down that wait time. If you're expanding to create jobs and meet demand then I would have that as your signature to get the word out at every possible opportunity.
Sorry again for the typo and I appreciate the product you make but unfortunately I will have to go someplace that can fill my needs much sooner.
RogerinTPA
04-26-10, 15:15
It is a Free America and a consumer market, but I'll stick with Raven Concealment. They have excellent products, just wish they could get caught up a little on their demand. They are worth the wait.
I feel like you believe that everyone is willing to wait and you're not losing business but you are. [snip]
w/o any solid effort brig made to cur down that wait time. [ /snip]
Those two assumptions are incorrect.
We are spending every available moment to expand our operations. I am typing to you right now sitting on a folding chair and table set in a wide open warehouse facility we are moving in to. I am here today organizing, building workbenches, and structuring our shipments of manufacturing equipment and materials to arrive.
We are making big changes and each employee is pulling double duty and/or working overtime to get gear out the door as quickly as we can. We will be more efficient very soon, but it seems every time we make some headway we are bombarded with another large batch of orders. That has been the nature of our business since the beginning. I can't promise you there will never be a wait, but I can promise you that we are expanding as fast as we can.
If our wait time is acceptable, we would love to set you up with some gear. If not, there are a lot of other manufacturers who may be able to get something to you quicker. It sounds as if you are in a hurry.
As always, if anyone needs something, or has questions, feel free to contact me directly to get the latest scoop directly from the source, rather than internet hearsay.
Jer, I don't think you're being fair in your assumptions. I think you're looking at it from a pretty narrow viewpoint.
First, there has been an explosion of CCW permit holders in this country and as such the demand for concealment holsters has taken off as well. It's not Raven's fault they're swamped with orders. As more and more people get their permits, learn their rights and get involved they find the need for good concealment holsters.
Second, they aren't losing business. The base of new customer is expanding and while I haven't seen their books I would say they're growning at quite a nice rate.
Third, I've looked around at wait times for most other major holster manufactures and believe it or not 60-90 days is normal and in some cases pretty damn good. Try waiting for a Milt Sparks VMII!
Also, look into the EE and see if you can find one used because they do come up from time to time. I bought both of my off the EE and only waited a matter of days :D
Also, look into the EE and see if you can find one used because they do come up from time to time. I bought both of my off the EE and only waited a matter of days :D
...but act quickly, because they will usually be gone within 5-10 minutes.
Those two assumptions are incorrect.
We are spending every available moment to expand our operations. I am typing to you right now sitting on a folding chair and table set in a wide open warehouse facility we are moving in to. I am here today organizing, building workbenches, and structuring our shipments of manufacturing equipment and materials to arrive.
We are making big changes and each employee is pulling double duty and/or working overtime to get gear out the door as quickly as we can. We will be more efficient very soon, but it seems every time we make some headway we are bombarded with another large batch of orders. That has been the nature of our business since the beginning. I can't promise you there will never be a wait, but I can promise you that we are expanding as fast as we can.
If our wait time is acceptable, we would love to set you up with some gear. If not, there are a lot of other manufacturers who may be able to get something to you quicker. It sounds as if you are in a hurry.
As always, if anyone needs something, or has questions, feel free to contact me directly to get the latest scoop directly from the source, rather than internet hearsay.
That's good and I actually had hoped I was wrong on that because it would prove that Raven Concealment had a vary narrow view on the future and I'm actually excited to hear that you're currently growing to meet demand. What I'm saying is this is the first I've heard of it and I even contacted Raven Concealment outside of the forums before I knew you were posting here. I asked specifically about lead times & whoever I spoke with stated very matter of factly that those were just the way things were. I would have liked them instead taking the opportunity to explain that you were expanding to meet demand. As I stated if it were me I would be shouting it from a building top so everyone knew because, being a business owner I can understand the pains associated with growing. People might be more willing to wait if that information were more readily available is the point I was trying to make with that post. Up until that post all I've gotten anywhere I've reached for information is 'tough, it's worth the wait' basically. I'm obviously paraphrasing but you can see where I would get that idea from this thread alone.
As much as I like my Ravens the NTAC holsters do look like a nice option. It's good to have options!
Jer, I don't think you're being fair in your assumptions. I think you're looking at it from a pretty narrow viewpoint.
First, there has been an explosion of CCW permit holders in this country and as such the demand for concealment holsters has taken off as well. It's not Raven's fault they're swamped with orders. As more and more people get their permits, learn their rights and get involved they find the need for good concealment holsters.
Second, they aren't losing business. The base of new customer is expanding and while I haven't seen their books I would say they're growning at quite a nice rate.
Third, I've looked around at wait times for most other major holster manufactures and believe it or not 60-90 days is normal and in some cases pretty damn good. Try waiting for a Milt Sparks VMII!
Also, look into the EE and see if you can find one used because they do come up from time to time. I bought both of my off the EE and only waited a matter of days :D
I understand that business is booming but if company B makes a very similar product to company A and can get it your hands in half the time why wouldn't you consider company B? That's what I meant by position money... not on a monthly bahance sheet as I'm sure they're not hurting but we all know that only tells part of the story. That's the figures based on who bought. The other side is who did NOT buy and why didn't they. That's what I meant by that statement.
As for EE I appreciate the suggestion but that's already what I'm doing. I have email notifications set up for classifieds of all types all over the interwebs in hopes someone will be selling exactly what I need because I really do want a Raven Concealment Phantom. The problem is a 3mo lead time puts me past the halfway point of the shooting season.
As much as I like my Ravens the NTAC holsters do look like a nice option. It's good to have options!
I agree and just because I choose Ntac or anyone else it's nothing against Raven Concealment at all. I kind of got the feeling from the direction this thread was going that some people felt that. I was looking at the thread more as a discussion about various holster options as opposed to a mud slinging contest.
I hear you dude. Generally what I will do is once I settle on a holster like a Raven or VMII I'll go ahead and get it on order if I can't find a used one. Then I'll find one that is good enough and will get me through until mine arrives. If in the end I like it I'll keep it or else I'll pop it up for sale.
Maybe that's why I have a dozen (if not more) Glock holsters. Hell, I found one today that I forgot I had!
In my experience you can't have just one holster and you can't have enough so more options, configurations, materials, etc are a good thing.
I don't know much about the NTACs but they look nice and if I needed a holster soon for a class or simply to carry a different gun I'd certainly give them a look.
I hear you dude. Generally what I will do is once I settle on a holster like a Raven or VMII I'll go ahead and get it on order if I can't find a used one. Then I'll find one that is good enough and will get me through until mine arrives. If in the end I like it I'll keep it or else I'll pop it up for sale.
Maybe that's why I have a dozen (if not more) Glock holsters. Hell, I found one today that I forgot I had!
In my experience you can't have just one holster and you can't have enough so more options, configurations, materials, etc are a good thing.
I don't know much about the NTACs but they look nice and if I needed a holster soon for a class or simply to carry a different gun I'd certainly give them a look.
That's kind of what I'm trying to avoid here. I've got handfuls of holsters for each handgun I own (mostly Glock as well) that I don't even use that are all different. Having exact duplicates would be even worse. You could mess with trying to sell one but then that's just one more thing to deal with.
I hear you dude. Generally what I will do is once I settle on a holster like a Raven or VMII I'll go ahead and get it on order if I can't find a used one. Then I'll find one that is good enough and will get me through until mine arrives. If in the end I like it I'll keep it or else I'll pop it up for sale.
M4arc as of now I am in the same situation you describe bud. I've recently switched over to the M&P as my carry gun from a 1911. I have Raven holsters and love them. In 3 weeks I have another handgun class coming up and I would love to run a Raven but obviously I cannot get one within that timeframe. I am going to order another RCS for the M&P but until then I have ordered one through NTAC and I'll let you guys know what I think after I run it through the class on the 16th. Their turn around time now is about 10-15 days. Honestly fellas I am very partial to RCS but John has gone out of his way to help me (more than I can say here) in getting the holster and 2 mag carriers for the Smith.
I personally feel that the NTAC is a suitable replacement for a Raven should the holster be needed NOW. The only reason I have an NTAC is because I needed a holster within a week, and they could get me one in that time frame.
Is the holster as good? In my own personal experiences, yes. However I have heard and seen some other reports that indicate they may not hold up quite as well. In either event, if you're jonesing for a Raven, but can't wait for whatever reason, perhaps you should give the NTAC a try. I've run both setups through numerous classes without issue.
HOWEVER...I will tell you this, after running both setups I do like the Raven better overall. Why? The small things...to start, Raven is using thicker holster body material over NTAC (unless NTAC has changed something recently). Does this matter? Maybe, maybe not...as I said before, mine has yet to break and I'm not easy on it. However there is piece of mind in knowing your holster is made of a more durable material.
I've also found that the NTAC holsters are not closed in enough at the 'mouth' on light compatible models. again, unless something has recetly changed as I bought my NTAC almost a year ago. I can easily manipulate the trigger of my Glock through my NTAC holster. Probably extremely difficult for any foriegn object to make things loud, but again, piece of mind.
So, in my opinion, having run both setups, hold out for the Raven if you can. If you can't, and you really want a Raven-style setup then NTAC may be the choice for you.
Recently I went back to using a G27 from a CBob 1911 as my daily carry pistol. I wanted to get a Raven so bad... But I did not want to wait 90 days. Instead I cancelled my order after 30 days and went with a Kaluban Cloak. I was going to get a thinner NTAC but did not want to even wait 10-15 days. I just reordered a Raven today due to the customer service. You simply cannot beat this company in terms of product and service. They have the most modularity, research, and testing in their product. They have a really nice line of OWB/IWB attachment options of any holster. If the other companies get as many orders, they would be just as long a wait period or longer. Tom Fineis is registered on this site and keeps up with the chit chat regarding Raven Concealment and has been nothing but professional in his postings and comments. The bottom line is that they have a huge order backlog because they are the best in all categories so far.
SW-Shooter
10-13-10, 16:10
Hi guys,
I won't comment on any other holster manufacturers. There are a lot of options available in the market and I encourage everyone to select the version that best fits their needs.
But I will address this as it directly relates to us. We have never had a 6 month turn around time.
We currently have a backlog, as do many other holster manufacturers. It isn't uncommon to wait a year or more with some other companies, and they still have a thriving pipeline because their customers feel the wait is worth it.
Everyone will have a different opinion on how long a holster "should" take to arrive, that is subjective. All I can say is to ask around, our gear is worth the wait.
Take care,
You really don't need to comment as your product speaks volumes about exactly what you bring to the market. After handling an RCS holster I guarantee you'll see the difference between quality and price. My father taught me that "you get what you pay for", he may not have originally created that phrase but he's never been wrong in regards to it. I drink the kool-aid and it tastes great.
I have an RCS holster on order for my M&P with light. I ordered an NTAC for my PPS with light. That should be here in a week or two. Couple of months yet on the Raven it appears. I'll be interested to compare. I've seen some reports (3) on one of the other sites (not THE other site) about some sporadic Raven failures.
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