View Full Version : SPIKES-VS- DANIEL DEFENSE
Birthday is coming up. Better half says I can get a new toy.I've been looking at DDXV. DD is asking $1300.00. I found a better deal with G&R for $1199.00.
I was also looking on Spikes website. They're selling the ST-15 for $950.00,plus the ST-15 comes with double heat shield handguards and the same MPI CHF barrel by DD.
I guess the question comes down to: Do I want DANIEL DEFENSE on the lower or the cool looking RED SPIDER? Both lowers come with a
flared mag well or is there something I'm missing between the two?
Should I be happy with basic model as it comes or should I justify the $250.00 saving and get it with a DD 7.0 lite rail or the LaRue 7"
Feedback appreciated on which M-4 and which quadrail.
lethal dose
04-24-10, 13:00
I'd say dd edges out spike's in the quality department. Not saying spikes's doesn't make a good firearm- they do.
Here's my answer, what little help it is.
DD Barreled Upper (can go lightweight of govvy). DD or Troy/VTAC rail. Grant has these custom uppers available. Something like a 16" middy with 10.0 Lite should be awesome.
Spike's EXO coated BCG; Lower Receiver
WOA or G&R for the LPK, round out the rest from grant (BCM GFH Charging handle, FH of your choice)
Grant can set you up with everything but the lower and BCG - get those direct from Spikes and you'll be quite set.
My lightweight is this exactly (already had a different lower, and went with a BCM IonBond BCG, but otherwise identical)
No way I'd take a Spike's over a DD. Who cares about a colored spider? It's ghey.
justin_247
04-24-10, 17:18
Daniel Defense.
At the very least, get a DD, LMT, or BCM upper receiver assembly with a BCG and CH.
Then get your lower receiver from Spike's, but get it with their Enhanced LPK (you'll have to call them).
That way, you can have the best of both worlds... youre little red spider along with a fantastic upper receiver.
adrenaline151
04-24-10, 17:33
No way I'd take a Spike's over a DD. Who cares about a colored spider? It's ghey.
+1
I'm sure Spike's makes a nice rifle, I'm just not crazy about any type of color fills or funky BCG coatings. For that matter, I don't even like animals or insects of any type carved into my receiver. Or funny or witty sayings on the inside of the dust cover, flash hider, or anywhere else on a firearm. It's a tool, not a toy. But that's just me. Get what you like, it's your money, it's your rifle!
I don't care for color fills but you don't have to get them they're optional.
No way I'd take a Spike's over a DD.
I would. Price is right. Specs are great. Quality is great. The money saved could go toward a new optic or something. I'm sure not going to pass on an awesome deal on a quality weapon just so I can post pics of my DD and impress Joe Bob forum guy who happens to like DD more than anything in the whole wide world LOL.
i have no experience with dd rifles but spikes rifles are great and as you can see and the only complaint people can make is the color fill that you dont have to get
DD in my opinion. You can find the DD XVM (middy) for $1,100.
I think everyone has forgotten the specs here. DD has nice stuff, however they are typically made from a softer material than other companies in the same price range. Spikes lowers are made of 7075 T6 aluminum forging to mil-spec dimensions, where Daniel Defense is made from 6061 and has a Type III hardcoat anodized coating to make it appear as if the materials are of equal strength. Well they may be at first but as that coating wears off it will reveal a softer aluminum. I would go with spikes if I was planning on keeping it for myself, if I was going to sell it in the near future I would lean towards Daniel Defense. You'll find more internet rangers throwing good money at you for whatever Larry Vickers endorses.
I don't know of any time I would pick Spikes over Daniel Defense.
Daniel Defense all the way.
I'm sure someone will correct me on this, but I thought Spike's bought all their upper components from DD?
I have a Spike's ST-15 and I've been very happy with it as a plinker. I've never ran it hard, but I've also never cleaned it in 900 rounds.
Spikes lowers are made of 7075 T6 aluminum forging to mil-spec dimensions, where Daniel Defense is made from 6061 and has a Type III hardcoat anodized coating to make it appear as if the materials are of equal strength.
Your information is incorrect: DD uses 7075
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=51750
I think everyone has forgotten the specs here. DD has nice stuff, however they are typically made from a softer material than other companies in the same price range. Spikes lowers are made of 7075 T6 aluminum forging to mil-spec dimensions, where Daniel Defense is made from 6061 and has a Type III hardcoat anodized coating to make it appear as if the materials are of equal strength. Well they may be at first but as that coating wears off it will reveal a softer aluminum. I would go with spikes if I was planning on keeping it for myself, if I was going to sell it in the near future I would lean towards Daniel Defense. You'll find more internet rangers throwing good money at you for whatever Larry Vickers endorses.
Ironfins, I dont think that is correct. There was a thread around here last week or so mentioning the same thing (I cannot find the thread, but I know id had daniel defense in the title) and I believe it was the VP of DD postd that that WAS a typo, the do use 7075. As far as the anodizing, I do not know. But I don't think DD is cutting any corners when it comes to quality. I am not knocking Spikes, they also do quality stuff as well from what I hear, but I think DD is better personally.
As far as Vickers is concerened, if an SME is going to consult on any project/product and the company implementingit is willing to follow high quality standards and the outcome appears to be a quality product, more power to them. They invested $$$ to get it right.
Not being argumentitive, just giving my opinion.
How many of you who are bashing Spike's have actually owned one of their lowers?
I tried to fit a BCM upper and Vltor MUR upper to my Daniel Defense lower, and I would have needed an Accuwedge and KNS anti-walk pin it was so loose.
The MUR fit the Spike's lower perfectly. Just the right amount of resistance to push the pin out. And the vertical lines matched exactly.
Daniel Defense makes great barrels and rails, no doubt, but it's a lower receiver we're talking about. It has no moving parts until the lower parts kit is added. I like the flaring of DD's mag wells, but I do believe their anodizing needs some improvement.
Here's what I'd suggest.....
Spike's lower
LWRC, DD, or G&R lower parts kit
Daniel Defense or BCM hammer forged barrel
BCM upper receiver
Spike's nickel boron bolt carrier group & hammer, or Young Mfg. chrome BCG
I'm not 'bashing' Spikes, never handled one. I think the OP was looking for a complete AR, not building.
I'm not 'bashing' Spikes, never handled one. I think the OP was looking for a complete AR, not building.
This is true. With the modularity of the AR, I just don't see a compelling reason to buy a complete one unless it's going to save me a bunch of time and money. Then again, I've been at it a while and I'd try to get the best of breed (or max value) in all components.
Bottom line- Spike's is worth looking at, for sure. So is Daniel Defense.
I looked at Midway and a few other websites. Don't get me wrong I like their rails and some of their other features. However I grow tired of constantly getting a run around on what materials they use. I called them 6 months ago about a Carbine Burnsed Loop that was advertised on their website as "steel" when I called about LEO pricing I was told it was made from aluminum, so I ended up choosing TROY. Which had excellent customer service super fast shipping and what you see online is what you get, a get piece without any over-flashing or manufacturing marks. The Burnsed Loop was advertised on Brownell's as aluminum, it has now been changed on DD's website. I understand typos happen, but come on people, don't turn people off to a good company because your website manager doesn't have a clue. I really would like to see someone test a few samples and see if the lowers are really what they claim. It seems kinda of odd when a material question comes up twice...........I am not convenience, that's why I bought Spikes over Daniel Defense.
You'll find more internet rangers throwing good money at you for whatever Larry Vickers endorses.
While everyone should be able to think for themselves, Larry Vickers knows what he is talking about. If he says something is good, its good.
Bud, Boss- The issues lie with the parts. Is the barrel B-11595E steel? If not, made with what? Is the bolt MPI and HPT tested? Individually and not batch? Is it shot peened? Is the barrel HPT tested? Individually and not batch? How's the staking? Castle nut staked? Heavy buffer or carbine? The answers to these questions puts DD on top of Spikes. There have been several threads on this.
Bud, Boss- The issues lie with the parts. Is the barrel B-11595E steel? If not, made with what? Is the bolt MPI and HPT tested? Individually and not batch? Is it shot peened? Is the barrel HPT tested? Individually and not batch? How's the staking? Castle nut staked? Heavy buffer or carbine? The answers to these questions puts DD on top of Spikes. There have been several threads on this.
Just out of curiosity, do you know the answers to these questions one way or another? I was just at Spike's yesterday for 6+ hours, and I think some of the answers might surprise you. They have come a long way from a company that bought whatever lowers were available, dropped DPMS parts kits in them, and topped them with RRA uppers.
Rob- I was posting them as questions to be considered and based on what I have read, I was of the opinion that, overall, the DD is a better rifle. I know the answers for the DD( thanks to you:cool:). Don't hold out. Many have been waiting for your trip and subsequent AAR. You know I have no prob. changing my opinion when the information changes. Spill it brother.
Bud, Boss- The issues lie with the parts. Is the barrel B-11595E steel? If not, made with what? Is the bolt MPI and HPT tested? Individually and not batch? Is it shot peened? Is the barrel HPT tested? Individually and not batch? How's the staking? Castle nut staked? Heavy buffer or carbine? The answers to these questions puts DD on top of Spikes. There have been several threads on this.
LOL, man no disrespect intended but do you have Spikes confused with someone else? Have you used or researched nothing about their weapons before posting this stuff?
Barrel steel? 4150 CHF (same as DD)
bolt MPI and HPT tested? MPI all, HPT batch, same as noveske
bolt shot peened
Not only is everything staked properly, it's outstanding
Extremely popular ST-T2 heavy buffer included with all lowers, AND all uppers (carbine and mid)
The ONLY thing DD has over Spikes is HPT every barrel. That's it my man. You are repeatedly posting complete nonsense around here. Please remember there are AR newbies that look to YOU experts for advice in these forums, and you are doing them an injustice by misleading them with this misguided crap.
Here. Stop typing and READ something:
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?2115-Spike-s-Tactical-16-quot-M4-LE-upper
and this is their LOWEST spec upper (no CHF)
LOL, man no disrespect intended but do you have Spikes confused with someone else? Have you used or researched nothing about their weapons before posting this stuff?
Barrel steel? 4150 CHF (same as DD)
bolt MPI and HPT tested? MPI all, HPT batch, same as noveske
bolt shot peened
Not only is everything staked properly, it's outstanding
Extremely popular ST-T2 heavy buffer included with all lowers, AND all uppers (carbine and mid)
The ONLY thing DD has over Spikes is HPT every barrel. That's it my man. You are repeatedly posting complete nonsense around here. Please remember there are AR newbies that look to YOU experts for advice in these forums, and you are doing them an injustice by misleading them with this misguided crap.
Here. Stop typing and READ something:
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?2115-Spike-s-Tactical-16-quot-M4-LE-upper
and this is their LOWEST spec upper (no CHF)
I don't believe all of your information is correct based on my visit. You're not helping your cause, or your credibility, by putting out information you can't verify.
Heavy Metal
04-24-10, 22:09
I think everyone has forgotten the specs here. DD has nice stuff, however they are typically made from a softer material than other companies in the same price range. Spikes lowers are made of 7075 T6 aluminum forging to mil-spec dimensions, where Daniel Defense is made from 6061 and has a Type III hardcoat anodized coating to make it appear as if the materials are of equal strength. Well they may be at first but as that coating wears off it will reveal a softer aluminum. I would go with spikes if I was planning on keeping it for myself, if I was going to sell it in the near future I would lean towards Daniel Defense. You'll find more internet rangers throwing good money at you for whatever Larry Vickers endorses.
Where did you get his garbage information? DD uses 7075 T6 Aluminum.
Spill it brother.
You know I will. :cool:
I just didn't want this thread to take off down the same road the other one did, that's all. It's turning again into fanboys with half-baked incorrect information and detractors not really understanding the current lay of the land, neither of which is productive.
All in good time my man!
I don't believe all of your information is correct based on my visit.
I guess there's a lot of that around here.
Did you by any chance misread this........
bolt MPI and HPT tested? MPI all, HPT batch, same as noveske
Do they not MPI all and batch HPT test the bolt? They used to.
You're not helping your cause, or your credibility, by putting out information you can't verify.
I have no cause Rob. All I own is BCM, DD, and one of Spike's lowers. The post I was responding to is entirely out of wack. But I'M the one putting out wrong info? They must be doing things differently than they were a month ago then.
adrenaline151
04-24-10, 22:21
Wow. Seriously, buy what you like. It will cost FAR more in ammo to wear anything out or break anything on either of those rifles than the rifles cost themselves. Sorry, but when the rifles really are this close in quality and specs, you might just have to pick based on if you like a spider or not. Either rifle would suit you fine. I'd like to see where it made a difference if a lower was 6061 or 7075, or if a barrel was CHF or not. It's the Indian, not the bow or the arrow that gets the job done.
It's the Indian, not the bow or the arrow that gets the job done.
I know I'm going to regret this....
Yes, of course it is, but this played-out phrase is getting aggravating, and gets used to justify buying garbage parts and guns all too often, and misses the fact that quality of gear does actually matter.
Give an indian one of these (http://www.toygunshop.com/proddetail.php?prod=7352) and see how far he gets.
+1 definately.
There's truth to what adrenaline151 is saying but if the discussion is quality/performance/price, etc, then nitpicking, so to speak, is not only justified but required.
I see the same argument made in ammo performance discussions, where someone will bring up accuracy or training, which frankly aren't truely relevant in a purely performance-related ammo discussion.
I know I'm going to regret this....
Yes, of course it is, but this played-out phrase is getting aggravating, and gets used to justify buying garbage parts and guns all too often, and misses the fact that quality of gear does actually matter.
Give an indian one of these (http://www.toygunshop.com/proddetail.php?prod=7352) and see how far he gets.
**** Sorry.... but I have to jump in here. I have a Spikes Middy Upper on order and I think when it arrives and I put in on my Spikes Lower with DD LPK it will be a combo that will outlast me. I REALLY hope you aren't comparing Spikes Quality with a cheap bow and arrow toy, cause that's what it appears you are doing.
JP
Jake Bauer
04-25-10, 02:25
I'm glad I got a DDXV :)
Now I know why rob isnt happy with how the chart has been used. I also remember when DD wasnt on the chart.
Bobert0989
04-25-10, 03:31
Just pick one and shoot the crap out of it!
That's basically all I got in response to a similar question last year... and it was good advice.
They both seem to be reputable companies on this forum, and both seem to have their own "fans"... reminds me of a "Ford" or "Dodge" argument. Both will get the job done, so pick your favorite and enjoy it. ;)
Bobert0989
04-25-10, 03:33
Give an indian one of these (http://www.toygunshop.com/proddetail.php?prod=7352) and see how far he gets.
That's a GREAT price! Just ordered one!
Shooter101
04-25-10, 03:34
I have two DD Ar15's complete. I love them. I also have two rock rivers as well. I would go with the DD. they shoot awsome out of the box. I'd go with DD all the way!
This also shows how a bit of a bad rep can hurt a company for a long time.
**** Sorry.... but I have to jump in here. I have a Spikes Middy Upper on order and I think when it arrives and I put in on my Spikes Lower with DD LPK it will be a combo that will outlast me. I REALLY hope you aren't comparing Spikes Quality with a cheap bow and arrow toy, cause that's what it appears you are doing.
JP
Detach your emotions from your possessions, and your posting.
What is it about the subject of Spike's that gets people on both sides to willing to reach and stretch and looking for ways to get themselves worked up and offended?
I think I'm just going to stop posting in these threads until I can collect my thoughts from my visit. It is becoming impossible to say anything about the company without some ignoramus or fanboy getting their knickers in a twist.
I know I'm going to regret this....
Give an indian one of these (http://www.toygunshop.com/proddetail.php?prod=7352) and see how far he gets.
i bet if i buy some extra parts for that kit it will work just fine someday
I'm looking forward to the review. I have my own thoughts but want to see if they can be confirmed.
Bud- You say "You are repeatedly posting complete nonsense around here." Thank you for that. It shows you are full of it. Give me some examples of where this is occurring. Everything I posted about Spikes is based on info. in the public forum. Not made up nonsense. I call BS on you. Sounds like your butthurt over buying a gun that is questionable. We've seen this many, many times. I'm calling your post on the Spike's spec's BS- prove it. It may be true, but at this point the info. is unsubstantiated. There is no point is continuing a discussion with someone that clearly doesn't have a handle on the technical side of the AR platform. Enjoy your Spike's.
Detach your emotions from your possessions, and your posting.
What is it about the subject of Spike's that gets people on both sides to willing to reach and stretch and looking for ways to get themselves worked up and offended?
I think I'm just going to stop posting in these threads until I can collect my thoughts from my visit. It is becoming impossible to say anything about the company without some ignoramus or fanboy getting their knickers in a twist.
*** Umm..... I have no emotions on my possessions or on my postings Rob. I wasn't worked up at all when I wrote my post last night...... but I am a little now. Seems you need to look at a few of YOUR postings and ask yourself if You have detached Your emotions. I don't know you, but You do seem to come off a little arrogant in a few of your postings. Just being honest with Ya. Just look at the one I quoted above. And I really hope you aren't referring to me as an Ignoramus. If so, I'd love to meet face to face. This is exactly why I am not going to boards as much anymore and not posting much anymore. I offer up a post that was legit and someone who has tons of posts and who's credentials with firearms are good, but not better than mine gets His "panties in a twist". My buddy who is a class III dealer has forgot more about AR's and MP5's than you and I will ever know told me Spikes are good people and make a good product and that's good enough for me. I also own a Colt, a CMMG and will have a BCM upper soon. All of them are GTG. So...end of small rant....... I'm done with this thread and won't be back. Good luck.
JP
http://jesus.spydro.be/weblog/wp-content/arguing.jpg
I swore I would never use this but I have to. Next time I see a Spikes vs. anything thread I will avoid it. To the OP, pick what you want and shoot it. If you are happy and it works, that's all that matters.
I am going to go out on a limb here, I have looked at several different companies that are producing .22lr ARs. I think for the most part they all are assembled crappy. Especially some Colts I seen at Gander Mtn. Apparently someone is making them for Colt, can't remember who. But my point is maybe we shouldn't judge companies by their .22lr ARs, as far as saying they are good to go companies or not. After all you don't see Noveske or other top tier companies exploring the .22lr world. I have never been completely satisfied with the feeding of a rim-fire case in a semi auto.
[begin rant] I have a strong feeling Rob_s is going to have a surprisingly positive report about his Spike's visit. There are many things Spike's has in the works that people are unaware of. I own some Spike's parts but not a lot and I have always been pleased. I have learned a shit ton of things about ARs from this forum but I have never settled for second rate. The issue is knowing the difference between good kit and second rate. This comes from an open mind and the willingness to learn from others. Spike's may have been crap a few years ago but a good company progresses. [end rant]
Only thing "Colt" on those .22's is the name.
I gave my word I wouldn't bash Spikes.
The End
I am going to go out on a limb here, I have looked at several different companies that are producing .22lr ARs. I think for the most part they all are assembled crappy. Especially some Colts I seen at Gander Mtn. Apparently someone is making them for Colt, can't remember who. But my point is maybe we shouldn't judge companies by their .22lr ARs, as far as saying they are good to go companies or not. After all you don't see Noveske or other top tier companies exploring the .22lr world. I have never been completely satisfied with the feeding of a rim-fire case in a semi auto.
Umarex.
*** Umm..... I have no emotions on my possessions or on my postings Rob. I wasn't worked up at all when I wrote my post last night...... but I am a little now. Seems you need to look at a few of YOUR postings and ask yourself if You have detached Your emotions. I don't know you, but You do seem to come off a little arrogant in a few of your postings. Just being honest with Ya. Just look at the one I quoted above. And I really hope you aren't referring to me as an Ignoramus. If so, I'd love to meet face to face. This is exactly why I am not going to boards as much anymore and not posting much anymore. I offer up a post that was legit and someone who has tons of posts and who's credentials with firearms are good, but not better than mine gets His "panties in a twist". My buddy who is a class III dealer has forgot more about AR's and MP5's than you and I will ever know told me Spikes are good people and make a good product and that's good enough for me. I also own a Colt, a CMMG and will have a BCM upper soon. All of them are GTG. So...end of small rant....... I'm done with this thread and won't be back. Good luck.
JP
It sounds to me like you not going to boards or posting is probably for the best. This is the second time in one thread you've proven incapable of reading anything without taking it as the worst-case personal attack. It looks like you truck around looking for ways to get offended and bent out of shape. That's your issue, not mine or anyone else.
Just to be clear for those of you in the back row, I wasn't comparing Spike's to a plastic bow and arrow, and I wasn't calling you an ignoramus (although that opinion is changing rapidly). I was, however, calling you a fanboy. :p
If you could point me to this "post that was legit" I'd love to read it.
I personally think that before anyone spouts off a bunch of nonsense of what is what, with out any actual experience with both, is a damn fool...perhaps there should be a real world comparison between the two...I mean that would just be the right thing to do before coming up with any conclusion.
I think everyone has forgotten the specs here. DD has nice stuff, however they are typically made from a softer material than other companies in the same price range. Spikes lowers are made of 7075 T6 aluminum forging to mil-spec dimensions, where Daniel Defense is made from 6061 and has a Type III hardcoat anodized coating to make it appear as if the materials are of equal strength. Well they may be at first but as that coating wears off it will reveal a softer aluminum. I would go with spikes if I was planning on keeping it for myself, if I was going to sell it in the near future I would lean towards Daniel Defense. You'll find more internet rangers throwing good money at you for whatever Larry Vickers endorses.
You are 100% incorrect. DD uses 7075.
C4
I looked at Midway and a few other websites. Don't get me wrong I like their rails and some of their other features. However I grow tired of constantly getting a run around on what materials they use. I called them 6 months ago about a Carbine Burnsed Loop that was advertised on their website as "steel" when I called about LEO pricing I was told it was made from aluminum, so I ended up choosing TROY. Which had excellent customer service super fast shipping and what you see online is what you get, a get piece without any over-flashing or manufacturing marks. The Burnsed Loop was advertised on Brownell's as aluminum, it has now been changed on DD's website. I understand typos happen, but come on people, don't turn people off to a good company because your website manager doesn't have a clue. I really would like to see someone test a few samples and see if the lowers are really what they claim. It seems kinda of odd when a material question comes up twice...........I am not convenience, that's why I bought Spikes over Daniel Defense.
So you would trust the webmaster at Midways (who knows NOTHING about the gear they sell), VS the actual manufacturer of said item?????????
C4
30 cal slut
04-28-10, 14:26
somebody send me a spike's upper. i'll shoot the **** out of it at a 2,000 round carbine class and send it back with my comments.
:D
somebody send me a spike's upper. i'll shoot the **** out of it at a 2,000 round carbine class and send it back with my comments.
:D
Me too!!!!!!!!
So you would trust the webmaster at Midways (who knows NOTHING about the gear they sell), VS the actual manufacturer of said item?????????
C4
So you have looked at DD website? Where does it specify the material. I haven't found it, all that I can find says it is Mil-Spec, which I know should be the 7075, but hell everybody throws the word "Mil-Spec" around. When I call DD I seem to get conflicting stories about what material certain items are made of, and the Tech on the phone sounds like it is his first week and he is confused. Maybe I should try again to talk to a more qualified person, don't get me wrong I really like DD and use some of their products. I was just looking at the specs that were available to me via the internet. I am just after the truth, like most, we as consumers do NOT want to be swindled and cheated. We want what we pay for. I also found other websites that posted it as 6061. I guess if you know they are 7075 you should post that on your website which I have looked at and "thought" of ordering from...........
So you have looked at DD website? Where does it specify the material. I haven't found it, all that I can find says it is Mil-Spec, which I know should be the 7075, but hell everybody throws the word "Mil-Spec" around. When I call DD I seem to get conflicting stories about what material certain items are made of, and the Tech on the phone sounds like it is his first week and he is confused. Maybe I should try again to talk to a more qualified person, don't get me wrong I really like DD and use some of their products. I was just looking at the specs that were available to me via the internet. I am just after the truth, like most, we as consumers do NOT want to be swindled and cheated. We want what we pay for. I also found other websites that posted it as 6061. I guess if you know they are 7075 you should post that on your website which I have looked at and "thought" of ordering from...........
It was really simple. I fired off an e-mail and asked them if the info on Midways website was correct. The immediately replied and said no. Jay Duncan of DD even posted on this forum that their lowers are 7075.
So don't believe what is on some web sellers. Always go right to the source.
C4
thanks for all your info and input Im going with the spikes especially for the money saved I can get a LARUE free float or maybe a new spikes rail and ammo for whats basically thesame gun
thanks to all
ghostman1960
05-11-10, 19:49
Detach your emotions from your possessions, and your posting.
What is it about the subject of Spike's that gets people on both sides to willing to reach and stretch and looking for ways to get themselves worked up and offended?
I think I'm just going to stop posting in these threads until I can collect my thoughts from my visit. It is becoming impossible to say anything about the company without some ignoramus or fanboy getting their knickers in a twist.
See his sig line
Jay Cunningham
05-11-10, 19:51
It has become abundantly clear that anything with "Spike's" in the subject line turns into a train wreck in short order.
Anyone in the future who has an overwhelming urge to start a "Spike's" thread, contact Staff first for approval.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.