View Full Version : Shooting rest for bench use/sighting in
Hello, I am setting up a new shooting range in my back yard. I am in the process of building a shooting bench using plans found on the net. I would like to find a shooting rest like the Caldwell or Hyskore brands but have read about difficulties accommodating a M4/AR type gun due to the pistol grip and 30 round magazine.
I saw one model specific for the AR frame, but although it might be best, I would like one that is more universal, i.e. could be used with more conventional rifles.
Any suggestions on a brand and model to buy? I know the normal Caldwell Lead Sled is on sale now at a lot of places because it is being closed out. The problem with that model is the pipe running through the center of the frame, making an AR sit at an angle. I know they make a double tube model that the magazine is supposed to bit between the tubes.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Lew
I would like to find a shooting rest like the Caldwell or Hyskore brands but have read about difficulties accommodating a M4/AR type gun due to the pistol grip and 30 round magazine.
If you want a mechanical rest go with a Caldwell Seven rest as they work fine with an AR.
There is nothing wrong with shooting off bags either...just use scrap to build a base for the bags both front and rear at a height that is comfortable for you and you have it.
As for mags, I keep a 10-round mag just for shooting off a bench but a 20 will work about as well given the grip.
MikeN
Thanks for having me look at the 7....for some reason the picture reminded me of something you would use standing up :)
That model doesn't seem to have a way to hold the gun down or anything at the back of the stock to hold the gun from moving backwards. It also looks like the whole frame could move all over the place, preventing repeatibility?
In the best of all worlds, I would strap the gun it, and without unstrapping it, I could change the magazine and go from one type of ammo to the next, comparing one to the other, knowing they were all aimed at the exact same spot. The least amount of adjustment I have to do between types of ammo and shots the better.
They Hyskore gets bolted down and absorbs the recoil, theoretically moving back to the initial spot from where the previous bullet was fire. I don't care as much about the recoil absorption through springs and hydraulics as much as I am the repeatability aspect.
Thanks!
Your experience may be different from mine, but there will always be movement regardless of how firmly you 'strap' something in. (There are high-dollar 'return to battery' rests available but generally not worth the cost and/or effort for most people).
There is a firm that makes a set of fore end and stock add-on parts that convert bag-unfriendly AR fore ends and stocks to very bag-friendly fore ends and stocks for not much money. With those you can use common benchrest competition front rests and rear bags and get the AR riding those almost as well as dedicated bench-rest rigs.
Regardless of how you resolve your rest preferences, look into getting a single-load follower for shooting off a bench.
Basically, you replace the follower in a standard magazine (I use a 10-round mag) with the single-load follower, insert the magazine, roll a round into the action through the ejection port, close the bolt with the bolt release and fire. The single-load follower locks the bolt back and you repeat the process as needed.
The single-load follower positions the loose round in the proper place for reliable feeding and if you add something like a Magpul B.A.D lever you are set even better for running an AR off a bench.
Good internet search-fu should get you on the trail of all of these.
Regardless, good luck...
MIkeN
http://www.international-benchrest.com/
Check the International Bench Rest Shooters Association website...there are links to to Plans and sources for anything dealing with Bench Shooting.
Not sure exactly what you're hoping to get out of the rest but...
IMHO better not to fight the recoil. Setup risers for sandbags and bag the gun. Yes you'll have to recover the gun to the firing position every time, but IMHO that's better than trying to clamp the gun down and make it totally immobile.
Regardless of how you resolve your rest preferences, look into getting a single-load follower for shooting off a bench.
Basically, you replace the follower in a standard magazine (I use a 10-round mag) with the single-load follower, insert the magazine, roll a round into the action through the ejection port, close the bolt with the bolt release and fire. The single-load follower locks the bolt back and you repeat the process as needed.
The single-load follower positions the loose round in the proper place for reliable feeding and if you add something like a Magpul B.A.D lever you are set even better for running an AR off a bench.
OK, have the single-load follower on order, actually two kinds. An aluminum one that you have to dissaassemble the magazine to install, and another type made of plastic you stick in from the top like adding a cartridge.
I did find the BAD thing. Seems like a gimmic device, like a solution looking for a problem. Since I sit to the right of my carbine, what is the problem pushing the bolt release normally vs. using that fancy thing?
Thanks for all the great tips!
Lew
Thanks for the link to the bench rest group. Didn't really see a forum or place to get info on rests, but half had sand bags (hi tech) and the other half had sophisticated mechanical types. I recognized the Caldwell Fire Control model in a couple pictures. That model isn't AR-15 compatible. Caldwell lists two compatible models. The DFT and the Solo. The DFT has a split frame, but still requires raising the butt up and not really full utilizing the butt holder. The solo has a curve in the frame making room for the grip and magazine. Not so much padded and far simpler, but $80 at the local Cabelas.
Maybe I should try something simple like the Solo and go from there. I tend to want the very best of most things so I don't regret later that I bought something inferior and then turn out having to upgrade.
Thanks to all for your replies.
Lew
I use a Caldwell Lead Sled for my SuperStock 10/22 and for my AR.
I use 20 round magazines on the AR to clear the bar and it works beautifully.
http://homepage.mac.com/kevinfarrell/.Pictures/Shooting%2011Oct08/DSCN0006.JPG
Have no experience with benchrests and all, but here's one maybe like for impromptu purposes.
http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=48473&highlight=X-Rest
Hope you find what you're looking for and Enjoy! :cool:
I did find the BAD thing. Seems like a gimmic device, like a solution looking for a problem. Since I sit to the right of my carbine, what is the problem pushing the bolt release normally vs. using that fancy thing?
If you are to the right of the piece shooting off your left shoulder you won't see any advantage with a BAD and it will probably be a nuisance.
For me...I'm right-handed with a long-arm..., the advantage of the BAD (or something similar) is that I can stay on the rifle while I shoot a string.
Once I start a string, I just maintain my position on the rifle and use my right hand for pretty much everything...managing the trigger, loading a round, closing the bolt, etc...
My left hand works the bags if they need any adjustment...usually only the rear even then.
I've found that technique gives me greater consistency during a group shoot without having to feed rounds out of a mag (which can't happen with the 80 gr loads I'm usually shooting out of my precision AR).
Also, I've had nothing but bad luck with the plastic single-round devices. Go with the aluminum one in a 10 or 20 rnd mag and enjoy.
MIkeN
http://www.international-benchrest.com/
Check the International Bench Rest Shooters Association website...there are links to to Plans and sources for anything dealing with Bench Shooting.
Where are the links for the plans? Couldn't seem to find them on the website. I'm interested in building a bench too put on my uncles cabin/hunting property.
I use a Caldwell Lead Sled for my SuperStock 10/22 and for my AR.
I use 20 round magazines on the AR to clear the bar and it works beautifully.
Since they came out with that original model, they made an AR specific model no longer in their product list, but they have a new model called the Solo that has a curved frame for lever action and AR type guns.
That is what I ordered yesterday from Cabela's where it is on sale and I got a Bing discount on top of the discounted price. They also have a wide variety of ammo on special so I bought a couple boxes each of all of the .223 on sale other than the MFS stuff.
I saw a picture of an AR in the regular Lead Sled, but they had something under the butt to raise it up as the pistol grip was also in the way. I guess it depends somewhat on how much you have the front raise up.
Thanks!
I think the BAD can be used on the right or the left. I will definetly keep the BAD in mind and appreciate knowing about it.
I ordered the plastic and aluminum single load follower so I am covered there. Thanks for the tip.
75gr...you must have a 1:7 twist? I was told not to go beyond 68/69 with my 1:9 twist.
If you are to the right of the piece shooting off your left shoulder you won't see any advantage with a BAD and it will probably be a nuisance.
For me...I'm right-handed with a long-arm..., the advantage of the BAD (or something similar) is that I can stay on the rifle while I shoot a string.
Once I start a string, I just maintain my position on the rifle and use my right hand for pretty much everything...managing the trigger, loading a round, closing the bolt, etc...
My left hand works the bags if they need any adjustment...usually only the rear even then.
I've found that technique gives me greater consistency during a group shoot without having to feed rounds out of a mag (which can't happen with the 80 gr loads I'm usually shooting out of my precision AR).
Also, I've had nothing but bad luck with the plastic single-round devices. Go with the aluminum one in a 10 or 20 rnd mag and enjoy.
MIkeN
Where are the links for the plans? Couldn't seem to find them on the website. I'm interested in building a bench too put on my uncles cabin/hunting property.
Other than a lot of pictures, I didn't find any help on that site.
I found several sets of plans on the net but I settled for these:
http://www.horstguns.com/ShootingBench.htm
I made several changed to their plans.
1. They have the seat area 48" wide but the front of the bench 36" wide. I widened the front to a full 48" so the design is square and I have more bench space.
2. They have the bottom brace 6" wide. Seemed overkill so I changed it to 4".
3. They used deck 5/4 boards for the surface. I stuck with 2X8 boards for the whole top surface. Thicker, heavier, and I spaced them a 1/4" apart for drainage. I think with the narrower boards and no gap they will have a water problem with their design.
4. The pictures seem to show two designs as some pictures show the top having two heights, and one picture shows a single height for the top surface, my whole top surface is level.
5. I used a couple pipe hangers and a piece of 2" PVC on the back to use for a patio umbrella. No sense sitting in the sun if you don't have to :)
6. I ran a router around the whole top surface, vertical joints, as well as around the seat to round things off to get rid of the 90 degree edges.
7. I also used 2X8 and 2X6 for the seat with spacing for water to get through.
8. I cut the legs off to ground level whereas they made the bench to be mounted in the ground. My bench is very heavy, heavier than theirs due to the larger size and the thicker boards I used. I didn't see the value to make the legs longer.
9. They used a 6X6 for the legs. I thought that was overkill and used 4X4.
10. I used pressure treated lumber for the whole thing as they did, but they used 3" and some other screw length. I used 2-1/2" coated deck screws (Torx head) for the whole thing.
They said it took them about 3 hours to build it. I don't know if that was two of them or just one of them building it. It took me about the same 3 hours doing it by myself.
I fired up my tractor yesterday, first time for the year, to haul the bench out to where I measured 100yards to the targets. I was happy that the battery was still good and it fired right up after sitting for 6 months. I only did tractor prep yesterday and so I will be moving the bench today.
I made three target stands out of 2 and 1-1/2" PVC with the verticals being made from 1X2" furring strips. I used wood for the uprights so cardboard can be stapled to them for target mounting. Also, the furring strips aren't attached (other than gravity) so if one gets hit with a round, I can easily replace it.
A local instructor has been talking to me about using my place for a defensive training class and they needed 3 targets which is why I made three target stands.
Will be taking the Appleseed class in two weeks, then I will learn which end of my carbine points forward :)
Thanks to everyone!
Lew
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