View Full Version : Will the ACR be the KRISS "AR"?
Anyone else think the ACR might go down the same road as the KRISS super V? I think it was a great concept but the rifle as a whole doesnt seem to live up tot he hype. This may change and I still want one but Im kinda let down in a way. Im glad I didnt wait and I got my SCAR but the ACR is still tugging at me....
The KRISS would have been cool 30 years ago when UZI's and MP5's were state of the art. These days it is a solution looking for a problem.
The ACR could have a future but it must first prove that injected molded plastic is actually cheaper than forged aluminum. At over $2k there is simply no reason to buy one over a name brand AR.
What America needs is an 'everyman rifle' - something along the lines of the original AR18. Make a service grade fighting rifle in the $500-600 price range and watch the orders flood in.
I think you can kiss "$500 to $600" rifle concept goodbye. You pay for tooling with polymers. R&D is a given with both. The price should and will decrease. However, look at the falling dollar, increase in taxes, etc., etc., which may preclude us from ever obtaining an ACR for under $1,800 and for any new, high quality design from seeing the light of day for $600.
It's hard to find an AR for 600 dollars. Getting into a BCM, DD, or something of comparable quality will be somewhere in the 1K range. Asking for a NEW rifle to come in at nearly half that cost is asking a LOT in my opinion.
:cool:Kel-tec? Hi-point?:eek::D
I will have to disagree with the idea that the Kriss concept is already outdated and a solution looking for a problem.
The idea behind the Kriss is for recoil control and to reduce muzzle climb in full auto fire.
With the use of even lighter weight materials becoming more prevelant in firearms...I believe this idea to be a better solution to the problem of muzzle climb and would prefer it to the use of extremely loud Compensators. Just my two cents.
The KRISS would have been cool 30 years ago when UZI's and MP5's were state of the art. These days it is a solution looking for a problem.
The ACR could have a future but it must first prove that injected molded plastic is actually cheaper than forged aluminum. At over $2k there is simply no reason to buy one over a name brand AR.
What America needs is an 'everyman rifle' - something along the lines of the original AR18. Make a service grade fighting rifle in the $500-600 price range and watch the orders flood in.
The best sub $1K AR is an AK.
I actually held and dry fired an ACR the other day. The store that had it also has an FN SCAR in stock as well.
Both rifles are rather similar, and I'd be hard pressed to choose between the two. The SCAR has been field tested, and is manufactured by a company that is respected for its military arms.
However I like the ACR design better. The ergonomics are great, even with the fixed stock. The quick barrel change feature is amazing. Push out a captive pin, slide off the lower handguard, and the barrel comes off just like an old Bren MG. Unfold a lever, rotate the barrel 1/4 and off it comes! Overall, the design is very clever. Break open the action and the bolt carrier comes right out. The recoil spring is retained to the carrier with a rod that you rotate a 1/4 turn to remove.
Things I don't like about the ACR - Bushmaster M4 profile barrel with an absolutely pointless M4 grenade launcher cutout. Why? How about a straight barrel? Not sure if it was chrome lined either, and that's a deal killer for me.
The trigger sucked as well - heavy and creepy like a normal AR but not nearly as good as it could be. Aftermarket trigger parts would be mandatory for me - not sure if it can take AR trigger parts.
ALso, the upper is aluminum - only the lower, stock, and handguard are plastic.
The real test is how it does in the real world. With any new design, no matter how well it has been tested, there are bound to be some issues.
Not sure if it was chrome lined either, and that's a deal killer for me.
Nitrocarburization is much, much better; more durable with no changes in geometry since it's a surface conversion process. I'll take it over hard chrome anyday. Look at your Glock and HK barrels. Also, S&W uses it on the M&P (but it's stainless so the properties are not nearly as pronounced, in terms of surface hardness and, obviously, wear resistance).
Nitrocarburization is much, much better; more durable with no changes in geometry since it's a surface conversion process. I'll take it over hard chrome anyday. Look at your Glock and HK barrels. Also, S&W uses it on the M&P (but it's stainless so the properties are not nearly as pronounced, in terms of surface hardness and, obviously, wear resistance).
OK, that's a good alternative. I guess I should have said that I didn't know if the barrel was treated, and that an unlined or untreated bore would be a deal killer at that price. I still don't like the M4 cuts, though.
A Bushmaster "rep" at SHOT told me they coated the barrel with magic pixi dust. Thats why the 1/9 tiwst rate can also shoot 100g bullets too....
:rolleyes:
The best sub $1K AR is an AK.
I have been saying the exact same thing for years, but a few things recently in the market make me not so sure anymore, not the least of which is the inflated price of AKs in the market these days.
ForTehNguyen
04-25-10, 16:28
The trigger sucked as well - heavy and creepy like a normal AR but not nearly as good as it could be. Aftermarket trigger parts would be mandatory for me - not sure if it can take AR trigger parts.
It feels like a normal AR because they are standard AR trigger groups. You put the FCG into the trigger pack that you can easily swap out in the lower.
http://cdn1.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/lower_3-tfb.jpg
A Bushmaster "rep" at SHOT told me they coated the barrel with magic pixi dust. Thats why the 1/9 tiwst rate can also shoot 100g bullets too....
:rolleyes:
seems like the unholy 1:9 can shoot 69 and 75gr fine? Melonite >>> chrome lining also.
ACR Observations,UPDATE, NEW-Bolt pics p.11,RTZ TEST p.12 & my APOLOGY TO BM - AR15.COM (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=28&t=187779&page=14)
A Bushmaster "rep" at SHOT told me they coated the barrel with magic pixi dust. Thats why the 1/9 tiwst rate can also shoot 100g bullets too....
Another bullet point in the list of marketing ****ups that Bushmaster made at SHOT this year.
The ARFCOM interview with the Bushmaster rep and Drake @ Magpul revealed that the barrel is done with a Melonite coating.
Melonite is a very well understood steel finishing process that does impart significant gains in wear, lubricity and corrosion resistance onto steel parts. It is used in everything from engine pistons to aerospace parts to CNC machine cutting tools. It has been around for some time and it's effects are well proven. In various industries, it often competes against chrome plating as a finish option - it often loses out to chrome in volume applications because there are a lot fewer Melonite shops than there are hard chrome shops out there.
Had Bushmaster just said they were using Melonite at SHOT, it would have been a lot smarter than calling the process "proprietary" and blowing people off with the "pixie-dust" line. Melonite is a great process, it makes sense that it could do a better job than chrome. Why not just say that?
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