View Full Version : Looking for AR-Mag Carrier--UPDATE: CHOICE MADE
Somewhere a few years ago I saw a neat item I wish I had bought.
It held 3 or 4 AR mags within a single bag, and was carried on a single shoulder strap worn diagonally across the chest. Unlike most chest rigs, having the single strap over the weak-side shoulder would not interfer with the rifle's sling while shouldering the weapon. The unit could also be put-on or ditched more quickly than a chest rig.
Designed for just the single row of mags, the bag had a thin, low profile and could be quickly pivoted from front to rear to free up working space for dealing with contigencies.
I wish I could remember who the maker of this item was, but as I said it was a few years ago. If it sounds like anything you've seen, please give me a steer -- thanks.
Moose-Knuckle
04-27-10, 08:26
There obvious to the trained eye as mag carriers but this is what I use for my go to carbine in the urban setting.
http://acecase.com/magazine-pouch-6-pack.html
and
http://www.skdtac.com/Eagle_Patrol_Bandoleer_p/eag.250.htm
Hey those aren't bad. Decent prices too.
I should add that covertness isn't a must, although obviously always desirable.
I've also found this item from Tactical Tailor, which costs more but seems versatile while still low-drag. http://www.tacticaltailor.com/activeshooterbag.aspx I don't mind that it can also hold a handful of repair/maintenance stuff, so long as it doesn't get too bulky.
There is the sneaky bags as well.
There is the sneaky bags as well.
I'm quite happy with mine (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8301/82279.html)
I use a US Peacekeeper Rapid Deployment Bag. Works well for my needs, though I'm currently looking at other options for both a lower profile and less interference with my belt and sling.
http://www.uspeacekeeper.com/products.asp?SessionID=&Qry=tblProductType.ProductTypeID&ID=1&p=2&searchtext=&special=
and then, of course, there's always these guys.. http://www.maxpedition.com/
and then, of course, there's always these guys.. http://www.maxpedition.com/
Never heard of 'em. ;)
yeaaaah boy!!! Post count 223. Now its all downhill until I get to #556.
an amazing bag, very durable. Best I've found
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=53251/pid=27325/sku/_223_Grab___Go_Pouch__Coyote
There is the sneaky bags as well.
I'm quite happy with mine (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8301/82279.html)
My thoughts exactly. :cool:
Uncle Alvah
04-27-10, 14:06
I'm confused if you want to carry JUST mags, or mags and some gear?
Maxpedition's Active Shooters Bag is available in a model with 2-AR mag pouches on the front, plus 2 handgun mag pouches, very cool.
Plus, having AR mags on the front eliminate ANY possibility somebody can slap ur clams about carrying a "Man Purse"! Heck, Richard Simmons would't get taunted carrying an ASB........well, alright, maybe Simmons would, but ya know what I mean......;)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/UncleAlvah1/max.jpg
I expect to order one in the next day or so, just having trouble deciding between the ASB(might be a bit small) and the Larkspur(might be too large).
I'm confused if you want to carry JUST mags, or mags and some gear?
Maxpedition's Active Shooters Bag is available in a model with 2-AR mag pouches on the front, plus 2 handgun mag pouches, very cool.
Plus, having AR mags on the front eliminate ANY possibility somebody can slap ur clams about carrying a "Man Purse"! Heck, Richard Simmons would't get taunted carrying an ASB........well, alright, maybe Simmons would, but ya know what I mean......;)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b134/UncleAlvah1/max.jpg
I expect to order one in the next day or so, just having trouble deciding between the ASB(might be a bit small) and the Larkspur(might be too large).
Don't you worry, get both ;) Ask me why :p
Don't worry about the Maxpedition ASB being too small.
Here's a shot of mine with 10 P-mags in it with plenty of room left over for other stuff.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/bag4.jpg
More from the low-rent side of the tracks, but if you're not concerned with low profile why not use one of the MOLLE 6 magazine bandoleers?
http://olongapooutfitters.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=37
always wanted couple of these.. plus they make em for shotguns and 308s too!
an amazing bag, very durable. Best I've found
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=53251/pid=27325/sku/_223_Grab___Go_Pouch__Coyote
http://olongapooutfitters.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=37
always wanted couple of these.. plus they make em for shotguns and 308s too!
****, man.. people sure are proud of their 4 mag bags
I'm confused if you want to carry JUST mags, or mags and some gear?.......
Mostly mags, but only 3-4 max. If a little additional space can accommodate small items that won't add weight or bulk (such as a mini-bottle of CLP and a few patches, a spare bolt and firing pin, etc.) then great, but that is a secondary consideration. I agree with Rob_S's write-up about avoiding putting too much weight on one shoulder. The size of the bag needs to adhere to the original focus of its purpose.
.......having AR mags on the front eliminate ANY possibility somebody can slap ur clams about carrying a "Man Purse"! Heck, Richard Simmons would't get taunted carrying an ASB........well, alright, maybe Simmons would, but ya know what I mean......;).......
I'm not worried about the "image" aspects, only that it carries what I need in the way I need it.
Don't worry about the Maxpedition ASB being too small.......
Ten mags are way overkill for my needs.
...... people sure are proud of their 4 mag bags
I think those are actually 8-mag'ers (two per pouch). Again, definitely overkill for me, needing 3-4 mags max.
Thanks for everyone's replies. :) I'm leaning toward either the Sneaky Mini or the TT "active shooter". Most of the others would be too big.
some food for thought on these types of bags...
I have used my Sneaky in classes and at drills, and I would advise you to resist the urge to weigh the thing down with mags. 4 AR mags on a single shoulder strap starts to wear on the body. Your sling will run over that same shoulder so you will wind up with the weight of the carbine added to that. Depending on your rifle, that could be as much as 15 pounds on those muscles and tendons. I can tell you from experience that even with only two mags and a <7lb gun it can get old.
I look at these bags designed to hold 8 magazines and I can't help but think "what the hell are they thinking?"
......I would advise you to resist the urge to weigh the thing down with mags. 4 AR mags on a single shoulder strap starts to wear on the body.......
I look at these bags designed to hold 8 magazines and I can't help but think "what the hell are they thinking?"
Thanks, and in keeping with my earlier comments. If it will hold up to four mags, one will go in the gun upon shooting, leaving the remaining 3 to be carried. I too wouldn't want any more than that on a single shoulder.
......Your sling will run over that same shoulder so you will wind up with the weight of the carbine added to that......
I'm actually hoping to run the strap over the weak-side shoulder. My main problem with chest rigs is strap interference with the sling. I've tried some mock-up exersizes that indicate the strap and sling positioned diagonally to each other will avoid this issue. Also, my AR tends toward the weak-side hip when when riding at low-ready, which I want to keep away from the bag. Conversely though, the bag will be on the same side as the pistol, but I am hoping I can pivot it far enough forward or backward as needed to clear the holster area.
If the bag is on your strong-side hip, how are you going to load from it, like a lefty?
I have to admit, I've been using chest rigs for years and never run into a sling compatibility issue. Even with the Sneaky bag running over the right shoulder the only sling-related issue I've had is fatigue, not any kind of interference.
If the bag is on your strong-side hip, how are you going to load from it, like a lefty?.......
The bag would be pivoted forward enough to reach across the chest with the left hand.
.....I've been using chest rigs for years and never run into a sling compatibility issue......
This gets at the motive behind this thread, and maybe deserves a separate thread.
As I raise the AR from low-ready to fire-ready, the sling slides upward along the ribcage below the weak-side shoulder, until snagging on the chest rig's strap attach point at its upper weak-side corner. I've tried arranging the buckle and strap in everyway I can think of to make it more streamlined and not snag, but no-go. The only other modification I can think of is to wrap the attachment in duct tape, which I am not too keen on. (BTW -- the rig is Specter Gear's).
I've also tried wearing either the rig or sling more loosely, which helps only when to the extreme of both practically falling off me (and the AR dragging in the dirt at low-ready). For the record, I'm 6-even and usually less than 170 lbs, so maybe this is a "it's me" size problem.
Any steers on this issue would be appreciated.
I just thought of a possible fix for the strap/sling conflict.
I was looking at Rob-S's Evolution of a Chest Rig article and noticed in the photos that the rear strap buckles are positioned higher on the back than when I'm wearing my rig, where they come all the way down to the attach points.
The possible fix would be to modify the straps by taking up some of the slack (which on me there is a lot of) at the forward buckles, rather than all of it at the rear. This would place the rear buckles higher up and possibly clear of the sling.
I'm going to try it and include some before/after photos. If successful, this will warrant a separate thread.
(next day) Well that didn't work. The sling still snags with the straps, just higher up and more toward the back. Some kind of really small bag would still seem to suit my needs better than a chest rig, but everything I've been seeing looks too big to me now. Maybe I should just put a couple of mag pouches on a dedicated belt that I could sling over one shoulder bandoleer-style.
I look at these bags designed to hold 8 magazines and I can't help but think "what the hell are they thinking?"
Since I posted a pic of my bag with 10 mags in it I'll address this one.
What I'm thinking is this is a secondary magazine storage tool that is quick to grab and throw over your shoulder. It's not for running and gunning, that's what mag carriers are for, they will get resupplied from this bag. Rather than have a bunch of extra mags in the bottom of a backpack, this keeps them all in one seperate container. I treat it as a bag for support gear, not active gear.
Since I posted a pic of my bag with 10 mags in it I'll address this one.
What I'm thinking is this is a secondary magazine storage tool that is quick to grab and throw over your shoulder. It's not for running and gunning, that's what mag carriers are for, they will get resupplied from this bag. Rather than have a bunch of extra mags in the bottom of a backpack, this keeps them all in one seperate container. I treat it as a bag for support gear, not active gear.
Which brings up a good point, and that is what you intend to do with the bag.
I've been looking for a nondescript bag to carry 20 loaded magazines basically from the house to the car, and the car to the staging area for classes. Right now 22 magazines fit perfectly in the bottom of my range bin, but I'd like something separate.
The Sneaky bag is, for me, something I use when running drills and I need admin supplies and is conceptually something I could throw on in an urban setting with various things in it to include AR mags but not primarily for that.
Thinking of getting an ASB MOLLE or two, and wondering from those that have them if the waist strap is completely removable or if it's sewn in?
I wish they made a non-MOLLE, non-pouch version that was more low-profile.
Thinking of getting an ASB MOLLE or two, and wondering from those that have them if the waist strap is completely removable or if it's sewn in?
I wish they made a non-MOLLE, non-pouch version that was more low-profile.
I'll go check and take a couple pics in a little bit for ya.
edit: Here ya go Rob.
Waist strap stowed on the back of the bag.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/bag5.jpg
Waist strap ready to use.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/bag6.jpg
And finally, the waist strap removed. You can see in the pic the piece of velcro used to hold the strap in place. The two horizontal stitching lines in the sheath the belt runs through hold the other side of the velcro in place.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/kwrangln/bag7.jpg
Hope this helps out.
......What I'm thinking is this is a secondary magazine storage tool that is quick to grab and throw over your shoulder. It's not for running and gunning, that's what mag carriers are for, they will get resupplied from this bag.......
I'm looking for something run/gun that won't create the kind of slinging conflicts that my chest rig does. Maybe just a couple of belt pouches are in order.
Maybe a completely different approach...
I didn't want a vest/chest rig, so I went with a drop thigh rig with 3 mag pouches on it. My belt has pistol mag pouches on it where the most convient mag pouch locations are, so I adapted for that. The belt clip for the thigh rig stays in place and just click it on when needed. It's taking some getting used to since I'd never run any type of thigh rig before, but it's not that bad, and for me the best option to date. Maybe that will change in the future, who knows, but this does away with the bulk of a chest rig, and all the tangles that go with it.
Here's the one I have from Blade Tech.
http://www.blade-tech.com/product_images/d_245.jpg
Just another option to consider.
Thinking of getting an ASB MOLLE or two, and wondering from those that have them if the waist strap is completely removable or if it's sewn in?
I wish they made a non-MOLLE, non-pouch version that was more low-profile.
Me too.
And finally, the waist strap removed. You can see in the pic the piece of velcro used to hold the strap in place. The two horizontal stitching lines in the sheath the belt runs through hold the other side of the velcro in place.
Hope this helps out.
That is good to know!
Thanks
Buckaroo
Maybe a completely different approach...
I didn't want a vest/chest rig, so I went with a drop thigh rig with 3 mag pouches on it......this does away with the bulk of a chest rig, and all the tangles that go with it.......
Just another option to consider.
So I'm not the only one getting tangled up!
Of course I'd seen thigh rigs around , but never considered them seriously on the grounds of being too "GI" for a self-defense civvy application like mine. But thinking further, they're not really any more or less Rambo than a chest rig. Quick on/off is still a must though. Maybe I'll give them a second look.
scot, you mentioned you read my article on load carriage. I tend to run a single handgun, and single carbine on my belt. If I'm running a padded MOLLE belt then I get two carbine and three handgun.
It sounds like maybe you're looking for something for competition? I'm not certain of your end-use.
If you do wing up going the drop-leg route make sure you run it high enough so as not to cause the drop-leg-lean when you reach for the magazines.
So I'm not the only one getting tangled up!
Of course I'd seen thigh rigs around , but never considered them seriously on the grounds of being too "GI" for a self-defense civvy application like mine. But thinking further, they're not really any more or less Rambo than a chest rig. Quick on/off is still a must though. Maybe I'll give them a second look.
Never had a chest rig to get tangles in, but I can see how snagging on pouches and buckles could be an issue.
My opinion is that outside a warfare environment the full on chest rig just isn't that well suited for the environment.
If you think about it as a civilian and put aside all the warfighter fantasies that folks have, what situation is going to have you decked out in all the tactical gear? What is going to be the most realistic way to get the hell outa dodge or whatever the situation dictates?
For target shooting, competition, etc, lighter is better. If you do encounter some scenario that has you loading up, odds are initially that drawling as little attention to yourself as possible is going to be a good choice, think your basic CCW, a backpack, and case/bag for a rifle.
If you have to get the rifle out of the case or bag, then blending in goes out the window, then you throw on the thigh rig, or chest rig as you see fit. Up until that point though, you'll have to consider a way to carry it, and a chest rig with all the gear tacked onto it looks to be kinda bulky for toting in a discrete bag which is better served carrying the rest of your gear.
Now, if you are just talking about defense as in bump in the night, just throw a Redi-mag on the side of the rifle and call it good with 60 rds on board and not worry about grabbing other stuff.
Just my $0.02.
You miss the point of the chest rig for many people, as is often the case. It's not about dress-up, or warrior fantasies, or anything else. It's about the most convenient way to carry a number of magazines to the line in a match or training environment and having them readily available. I use mine to back-feed either a belt pouch(es) or a Redimag.
I fully realize that my opinion is not a popular one and was/am waiting to catch some flack for it.:D
What type of matches take more than 3 or 4 mags, 1 or 2 on the gun, and a couple in belt pouches? The rest goes with the other gear, in a bag at the start line.
Carbine courses and training are all good, but the phrase "train like you fight" has been around for a long time, so training with a chest rig might actually be a disservice. Unless you are mil/le a chest rig outfitted with all the kit to me isn't a realistic wear item in a situation that is going to have you grabbing your gear and heading out in public (some sort of bug out scenario). I also see very few, ok, zero, pics of carbine classes where the participants are carrying a huge pack full of survival stuff on their backs. Skills are skills, but reality has to come into play at some point as well.
I do get the point of a chest rig and it's convience for carrying stuff in a readily available fashion, that's why the pro's (mil/le) wear em. They are also traveling in squad strength, or are hopping out of marked vehicles with the rest of their uniform on under em.
Like I said, not a popular opinion, but I can live with that and hopefully I/we can take something away from the discussion that follows.
Truth be told, I don't think you do get it, but I tried.
I am pretty sure I get Rob's point so I am going to try to break it down a little more barney style. Rob if I am wrong, call me on it.
Rob's point along with alot of other shooters about the chest rig is that it is there for mag storage only. They are not necessarily "fighting" out of it, but "filling" out of it.
Classes and events can get really old in a hurry when you only carry one mag on your belt. So why not carry 3-4 across your chest that you use to fill that one belt pouch? This means less time going back and forth from the line and more time training.
Another point was brought up for train like you fight. In a home defense scenario are you going to be able to strap on a belt pouch? The Redimag was mentioned which is an awesome option, but for a class/training environment how are you going to keep it fed?
As for the fact about concealing a chest rig. Yes it can be done. From my very LIMITED expereince of just fooling around with the concept, it can actually be done quite easily and effectively.
PJ
Truth be told, I don't think you do get it, but I tried.
Please enlighten me if you have the time, I come to these boards to learn as much as any other reason.
You miss the point of the chest rig for many people, as is often the case. It's not about dress-up, or warrior fantasies, or anything else. It's about the most convenient way to carry a number of magazines to the line in a match or training environment and having them readily available. I use mine to back-feed either a belt pouch(es) or a Redimag.
I highlighted your last sentence as I'm guessing it's the key to what you're talking about. If the chest rig is merely carrying your spares vice what you are practicing loading from, I can see some value. My hangup is if you're spending a ton of time trying to reload your mag pouches tactically from it so that it becomes a key piece of gear and engrained as a standard operating procedure of sorts.
Am I on the right track?
edit: Sorry PJ, got a phone call while I was typing and by the time I hit submit you had posted what I was thinking about Rob's statements.
Oh goodie -- I love starting a thread that gets some real juices flowing! Here's my 2p.
I'm looking for something beyond matches, but that I could and would use at matches as well. If it were solely for competition, I would just have one or two belt pouches. If back-filling was needed, I would do so from a separately carried (i.e. not worn) bag, probably something like that Maxpedition item shown earlier. I no longer shoot a lot of big 3-gun matches though, and most of my competition with the AR nowadays is at small side-matches affiliated with my local IDPA. Even just a single belt pouch is adequate there.
The rig or bag or whatever else to be considered for AR-mag carry would be for the self-defense/homeland-defense arena. Here again is the scope-of-problem question. To address the immediacy of a bump-in-the-night scenario, the AR would actually not factor in at all, as my 870 HD with Surefire forend is the designated first responder, with a variety of handguns for support/fall-back. The AR would be for the broader, more time-dilated social unrest, Katrina-esque, SHTF -- call it what you will -- scenario. Whether this be bug-out or bug-in (the latter more likely in my case, living in a rural area) -- and without unduly fantasizing on possible specific events -- the basic need is the ability to remain relatively substantially armed (i.e. more than a handgun) for multi-hour to multi-day periods. Ammo carry of 3-4 mags would need to be as comfortable and mobile as possible. As I use competition as a form of practice, I would want to use the same configuration in matches, even though I wouldn't be beating the guys with the race rifles (which I wouldn't be anyway).
Finally, regarding the utility of chest rigs: it's not black or white. They come in a whole range of sizes, weights, and capacities. The 3-mag Specter Gear item I currently have is among the most streamlined, is emminantly grabable/go-able, and actually conceals under a light jacket nearly as easily as a handgun. Were it not for the strap-sling snagging issue, I would be content to keep with that.
Uncle Alvah
04-30-10, 11:06
Don't you worry, get both Ask me why
Ok........
Why? ;)
some food for thought on these types of bags...
I have used my Sneaky in classes and at drills, and I would advise you to resist the urge to weigh the thing down with mags. 4 AR mags on a single shoulder strap starts to wear on the body. Your sling will run over that same shoulder so you will wind up with the weight of the carbine added to that. Depending on your rifle, that could be as much as 15 pounds on those muscles and tendons. I can tell you from experience that even with only two mags and a <7lb gun it can get old.
I look at these bags designed to hold 8 magazines and I can't help but think "what the hell are they thinking?"
I've recently added an extra strap to go over the left shoulder and more evenly disperse the weight of my S-type Fatboy(carrying 4-30 rnd AR mags,4 pistol mags,M&P compact,and various other gear).
Right now I'm just using an cheap spare 2-pt sling and looking at other options.It works well though and I prefer the set-up over a chest rig.
Here's my pure rookie thinking.
I've been leaning towards a bag myself. I read a while back about a guy that "trained like he would fight" and he mentioned that he would go up to the line with a couple of mags in his jean's pockets (I think it was you rob_s.) That stuck in my mind. So, I've been looking for a bag that I think would be practical.
I can picture myself in some kind of "disturbance" in the middle of the night, standing in the shadows of my front yard in a pair of shorts, with my "bag" over my shoulder (w/ a SIG P220), with my AR. To me, that is practical?? I can train like that.
I think if one of our Deputies came by and spotted me, he could tell I was just a home owner just defending my property. Rob_s, I believe you that the bag would get heavy but I think it is more practical than keeping a chest rig on the side of my bed?
BUT I'm still thinking about this. But back to the thread, for the bags, the US Peacekeepers Bag is the best one for the money at Natchez Shooters Supply right now for $25, it's a deal, especially to see if you like a bag. It is a well built bag. It comes with a "holster".
TOPS (Tactical Operations Products System) makes a nice bag but it runs about $50.
Maxpedition Jumbo is great but it sticks out too far. It's what I'm using now, it's a great bag but it more of a camping/hiking bag.
----------------
The Bag I "think" I want is the SOTECH Mission Go Bag. It has a cross the shoulder strap that converts the bag to a fanny pack, a carry handle, it can be put on a waist belt, has compartments, MOLLE, etc.. Just seems like it would be a good compromise for everything. They've got a good video on their website showing its versatility.
In the Bag, I want to carry 2 AR mags, 3 handgun mags, pistol in a holster, backup flashlight, bug repellent, water bottle, and a few parts.
Please excuse my thinking with the keyboard and if I am way off or thinking wrong please let me know...but be gentle...I'm not nearly as dumb as it appears.
I use this one... I like it a lot
http://www.lapolicegear.com/baouttabag.html
I'm quite happy with mine (http://tacticalyellowvisor.net/8301/82279.html)
Thanks for the comprehensive write up on the Sneaky Bag. It was a very solid review. I have been considering one myself. Your article might have just sold one to me.
Thanks for the comprehensive write up on the Sneaky Bag. It was a very solid review. I have been considering one myself. Your article might have just sold one to me.
Be sure to tell them that when you order. :D
re: the weight issue...
If you are planning to use this bag solely as something to grab with your carbine for a bump in the night, it may very well not matter. However I do think you need to train with said bag prior to this actual deployment as things are probably not going to work the way you think they are (I say this after my own use of the Sneaky and another competing bag). For that training, the weight will definitely come into play. Not to mention that if your bag plans are oh-dark-thirty home defense use, two magazines in the bag and one in the gun is likely far more than enough.
I recently sacrificed ammo carrying ability on my chest rig to have room for medical trauma supplies. I would do the same in a bag that I actually had any intent of employing in a life-or-death situation.
I finally bit-the-bullit and ordered this below (product web page here: http://www.hawkepaks.com/prod.itml/icOid/245 ), although I ordered mine in coyote rather than the black pictured. Seems closest to the ideal for what I need that I have been able to find (as well as can be told from looking at web sites). I'm hoping upon receiving it to find it will have everything I need and nothing I don't. Shall report back with findings. Thanks for everyone's input.:)
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n232/blackscot/hawkepak.jpg
My hangup is if you're spending a ton of time trying to reload your mag pouches tactically from it so that it becomes a key piece of gear and engrained as a standard operating procedure of sorts.
Am I on the right track?
I get where you're coming from, and I've seen some examples, like FAST Marines who have th misfortune of going from their teams, where they are armed pistol/carbine to a line unit where all they get is a carbine or rifle. You'll see them, in training, dump the long gun and slap their thigh while going for a pistol that isn't there any more. What was at one point a key component of their individual skillset is all of a sudden a delay; a training scar.
Problem is, we're not talking, in this idiom, about folks who are feeding their gun from the rig. They're feeding the belt (or similar), and in a more conscious, administrative fashion...from the rig. Not at all the same thing, and NOT a training scar.
Another way to look at it...
Wavetops: When one generally starts training, they're mostly unencumbered, and they learn fundamentals, manipulations, etc. while in that state. As they progress, they become more encumbered (for whatever reason), and get used to doing all the same actions with more crap potentially in the way and weighing them down. They build a bridge and get over it, and attain something approaching or even exceeding the skillset they attained unencumbered, in practice.
The day comes when they have to snatch up and go to guns in a "situation." Unencumbered.
Punch line; I've seen only two instances where folks who were unconsciously competent while in an assault load totally lose their shit because they were packing less stuff. These two were, incidentally, oxygen thieves to begin with; physically competent while also having the collective brain power of a prolapsed colon. Everybody else (presuming they're NOT stupid), who gets used to doing Tasks 1 - infinity with X weight and Y bulk tend to at least maintain if not exceed their performance once all the speed bumps are removed.
So, chest rig with 3 AR mags in practice to feed either a 1st line belt with, say, 2 AR mags OR a gun with a Redi-Mag/Mod/whatthehellever that is your go-to platform with 2 AR mags. Whichever you use, you get to shootin fools without the chest rig, all of a sudden it's not a gear/training issue; the whole idea is for drill to be bloody hard so that battle becomes bloody drill. The ADMINISTRATIVE gear that was encumbering you in practice isn't there any more in battle.
Instead, it's a mindset/critical thinking issue, because you need to be doing something besides shooting or at least planning to do something besides shoting before that 1st magazine is expended, 'cuz 2 is all you got.
Software, not hardware. If a chest rig (or similar) is your primary ammo carriage, that certainly changes things, but I'm keeping it to the training scenario as you and Rob seem to be hashing over it.
I get where you're coming from, and I've seen some examples, like FAST Marines who have th misfortune of going from their teams, where they are armed pistol/carbine to a line unit where all they get is a carbine or rifle. You'll see them, in training, dump the long gun and slap their thigh while going for a pistol that isn't there any more. What was at one point a key component of their individual skillset is all of a sudden a delay; a training scar.
Problem is, we're not talking, in this idiom, about folks who are feeding their gun from the rig. They're feeding the belt (or similar), and in a more conscious, administrative fashion...from the rig. Not at all the same thing, and NOT a training scar.
Another way to look at it...
Wavetops: When one generally starts training, they're mostly unencumbered, and they learn fundamentals, manipulations, etc. while in that state. As they progress, they become more encumbered (for whatever reason), and get used to doing all the same actions with more crap potentially in the way and weighing them down. They build a bridge and get over it, and attain something approaching or even exceeding the skillset they attained unencumbered, in practice.
The day comes when they have to snatch up and go to guns in a "situation." Unencumbered.
Punch line; I've seen only two instances where folks who were unconsciously competent while in an assault load totally lose their shit because they were packing less stuff. These two were, incidentally, oxygen thieves to begin with; physically competent while also having the collective brain power of a prolapsed colon. Everybody else (presuming they're NOT stupid), who gets used to doing Tasks 1 - infinity with X weight and Y bulk tend to at least maintain if not exceed their performance once all the speed bumps are removed.
So, chest rig with 3 AR mags in practice to feed either a 1st line belt with, say, 2 AR mags OR a gun with a Redi-Mag/Mod/whatthehellever that is your go-to platform with 2 AR mags. Whichever you use, you get to shootin fools without the chest rig, all of a sudden it's not a gear/training issue; the whole idea is for drill to be bloody hard so that battle becomes bloody drill. The ADMINISTRATIVE gear that was encumbering you in practice isn't there any more in battle.
Instead, it's a mindset/critical thinking issue, because you need to be doing something besides shooting or at least planning to do something besides shoting before that 1st magazine is expended, 'cuz 2 is all you got.
Software, not hardware. If a chest rig (or similar) is your primary ammo carriage, that certainly changes things, but I'm keeping it to the training scenario as you and Rob seem to be hashing over it.
Bingo.
Moose-Knuckle
05-07-10, 08:36
Just came across this new one from Blue Force Gear...
http://www.skdtac.com/Blue_Force_Gear_Ten_Speed_Six_Pack_Bandoleer_p/3sk.102.htm
I finally bit-the-bullit and ordered this below (product web page here: http://www.hawkepaks.com/prod.itml/icOid/245 )........
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n232/blackscot/hawkepak.jpg
Well this came Saturday -- just 3 days after ordering it. Although very well built, Hawkepak has graciously agreed to my request for a return. It really is sized for the as-designed full compliment of 6 mags, which is twice what I need. Holding my 3 mags leaves a lot of unused capacity that just adds to the overall bulk and weight. Quality is A1 though, and I recommend the item to anyone needing something this size.
I think I am going to drop this pursuit for awhile -- burned out from too-many-choices-but-none-just-right syndrome. Thanks to Hawkepak, and to everyone else for chiming in.
I'm sorry I'm coming in at the tail end of this but I'm still not sure what you said your purpose for this was.
If it's for training, or for SHTF, or even where concealability was a concern, then you'll have a few different options but if it's for "bump-in-the-night" response, I have a recommendation that I've not seen yet.
my first response to an intruder scenario is my pistol with light attached which I keep bedside at night but in a Safariland ALS holster attached to my "battle belt" at all other times. the battle belt is kept under the bed at night and I can retrieve it and the pistol simultaneously.
the idea being I can just grab the belt and sling it over my head like a bandoleer and have immediate acces to three spare pistol mags along with 2 AR mags, spare flashlight, IFAK, and a GTFOM.
with 18 rds in the pistol and three spares, I'm hoping I can open up enough of a hole to allow me to retrieve my rifle with light and RDS attached...
.....I'm still not sure what you said your purpose for this was.
If it's for training, or for SHTF, or even where concealability was a concern, then you'll have a few different options but if it's for "bump-in-the-night" response, I have a recommendation that I've not seen yet......
From earlier in the thread:
......The rig or bag or whatever else to be considered for AR-mag carry would be for the self-defense/homeland-defense arena. Here again is the scope-of-problem question. To address the immediacy of a bump-in-the-night scenario, the AR would actually not factor in at all, as my 870 HD with Surefire forend is the designated first responder, with a variety of handguns for support/fall-back. The AR would be for the broader, more time-dilated social unrest, Katrina-esque, SHTF -- call it what you will -- scenario. Whether this be bug-out or bug-in (the latter more likely in my case, living in a rural area) -- and without unduly fantasizing on possible specific events -- the basic need is the ability to remain relatively substantially armed (i.e. more than a handgun) for multi-hour to multi-day periods. Ammo carry of 3-4 mags would need to be as comfortable and mobile as possible.....
......The rig or bag or whatever else to be considered for AR-mag carry would be for the self-defense/homeland-defense arena. Here again is the scope-of-problem question. To address the immediacy of a bump-in-the-night scenario, the AR would actually not factor in at all, as my 870 HD with Surefire forend is the designated first responder, with a variety of handguns for support/fall-back. The AR would be for the broader, more time-dilated social unrest, Katrina-esque, SHTF -- call it what you will -- scenario. Whether this be bug-out or bug-in (the latter more likely in my case, living in a rural area) -- and without unduly fantasizing on possible specific events -- the basic need is the ability to remain relatively substantially armed (i.e. more than a handgun) for multi-hour to multi-day periods. Ammo carry of 3-4 mags would need to be as comfortable and mobile as possible.....
yeah, I saw where you said that but the rest of the discussion drifted between the banks a little and I wasn't sure where it ended up. wouldn't be the first time someone was asking about ABC and after discussing it, ended up with XYZ.
good luck...
.....good luck...
Thanks -- I'll still be looking around.
P.S. Nice sig line. ;)
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