Outlawing Unapproved Militias - Oklahoma??

[lalakai]

came across this as an interesting legislative action.

http://www.okhouse.gov/OkhouseMedia/news_story.aspx?NewsID=3574

it is an amendment to Oklahoma SB 2018, prohibiting formation, participation or support of unauthorized militias. The bill passed the senate and is waiting for the next step.

[boltcatch]

Doesn't sound particularly enforceable to me.

[ForTehNguyen]

wonder if inner city gangs can be classified as militias due to their domestic terrorism

[Steelblitz]

PA has something similar on the books: § 5515, Prohibiting of paramilitary training.

[glocktogo]

Sometimes my state embarrasses me. :(

[sewvacman]

PA has something similar on the books: § 5515, Prohibiting of paramilitary training.

I was wondering why there were no militias out here. I was conteplating starting one but now I'll get legal advice first.

[Littlelebowski]

This is bullshit.

[ForTehNguyen]

PA has something similar on the books: § 5515, Prohibiting of paramilitary training.

hide those magpul DVDs :eek:

[dbrowne1]

I would strongly suggest that you read the text of the bill before you pound your fists and call "bullshit."

I have not read this bill, but I would bet big money that it's very similar to laws that many other states already have on the books that ban training with firearms and explosives by groups (2+ people) knowing or intending that such training will be used to cause or further civil disorder or criminal acts.

Please note the last element in bold.

[JoeInOK]

Sometimes my state embarrasses me. :(

Ain't that the truth. :(

[500grains]

The Supreme Court has ruled that there is a right to freedom of association. The 2nd A. provides for citizen militias, which is what militia meant in the 1770s. So I don't see how this law is constitutional any more than a law banning off-track religions such as the Hare Krishnas or whatever.

[BrigandTwoFour]

I don't see it as being enforceable. Especially when the national law says this:


US Code TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311
§ 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are—

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

I keep that little nugget handy for when a 2A debate turns towards the, "It clearly says that only militia members need firearms, and the militia is the National Guard....so YOU don't need any firearms."

[kmrtnsn]

For the sake of argument, I don't see anything in the Constitution that says a militia cannot be regulated by the state or federal government. A state then would be free to set regulations on size, training standards, prohibitions against certain activities, etc.

[Frank Castle]

IMO, the worrisome aspects of this legislation are "penalty for individuals involved in unauthorized militias" and "would extend penalties to other groups including any independent military organization that is neither recognized nor authorized by the Commander in Chief of the Militia for the State of Oklahoma." I think if this legislation is to proceed further it is mandatory that they clearly define their interpretation of what constitutes a "militia". It seems conceivable that the M4C Oklahoma Regional Training Group could be viewed as a militia and prosecuted under this legislation. :(

[jmoore]

Sometimes my state embarrasses me. :(

Hey! I'll see you one and raise you one - I'm in ILLINOIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jm

[Brimstone]

I am in Utah. We still have most of our freedoms here.

[RogerinTPA]

I hear what you guys are saying, but I have a few questions. I'm a little weak on present day militias, but I am familiar with them historically, so bare with me:

Doesn't the Constitution say that we shall form a well regulated Militia?

What is the actual present day definition of a "legal Militia"? Does the definition, vary from state to state?

Isn't the state's National Guard, of any branch, considered the "state militia" which can be coordinated with the US Military to be used outside of the state to fight wars?

Does a Non state sponsored militias have the same training and deployment responsibilities as the NG.

Are there any legal provisions to form and maintain "other" Militias' within a state aside from the NG? Is that also state law dependent.

If a militia, that is not a part of the NG, then who regulates it, funds it, trains it, and coordinate it with the NG?

How is a privately/separately formed militia, a legal entity if it is not well regulated, a funded and, trained by the state or US Gov?

During the last 40+ years of my life, Militias, other than state sponsored ones, have been portrait as racist, radical, separatist, and used often by racist groups, to justify there existence in arming themselves for the "race wars" that never came to fruition, etc.... so just looking for some clarity.

[HK51Fan]

this is ridiculous! This country's freedoms were won by local "unapproved" militias!!

[Brimstone]

In the time that the Bill of Rights was written and in the context of the Second Amendment, the term "well regulated" meant "well trained".

[glocktogo]

I would strongly suggest that you read the text of the bill before you pound your fists and call "bullshit."

I have not read this bill, but I would bet big money that it's very similar to laws that many other states already have on the books that ban training with firearms and explosives by groups (2+ people) knowing or intending that such training will be used to cause or further civil disorder or criminal acts.

Please note the last element in bold.

You mean civil disorder like the kind the Founding Fathers were involved in?

I'm completely against racist, anti-government idiots planning to harm innocent people in pursuit of their own utopia. But laws like these can easily be twisted and perverted into something completely unconstitutional, if they aren't wholly unconstitutional to start with. Never mind the fact that they're completely unnecessary, as any violent conspiracy would already be covered under present statutes.

These "modifier" laws ARE complete bullshit. Pardon us for calling it like we see it. :(

[Sudden]

For the sake of argument, I don't see anything in the Constitution that says a militia cannot be regulated by the state or federal government. A state then would be free to set regulations on size, training standards, prohibitions against certain activities, etc.

The Constitution doesn't give the federal gov. that power, so it doesn't have it. A state isn't prohibited but it may be treading on other rights.

[Gutshot John]

The PA statute reads that the training is being performed with unlawful intent to commit a crime or foment civil disorder.

This is why you train with good guys who obey the law.

[Stickman]

wonder if inner city gangs can be classified as militias due to their domestic terrorism

I think the intent of this one is written with a little more pale of intentions.

[Sudden]

Who knows the New York statute? I see the Christian Militia has been released for now.

[kmrtnsn]

"The Constitution doesn't give the federal gov. that power, so it doesn't have it."

Huh? If the Federal government can organize militias it sure as hell can regulate them.

[rifleman2000]

I Isn't the state's National Guard, of any branch, considered the "state militia" which can be coordinated with the US Military to be used outside of the state to fight wars?


National Guard training = federal

National Guard equipment = federal

National Guard mission = federal

The National Guard is an extension of the standing federal military, states only have nominal control while they are not doing their federal mission.

National Guard is not militia, as defined by the Founding Fathers.

[Shadow1198]

"The Constitution doesn't give the federal gov. that power, so it doesn't have it."

Huh? If the Federal government can organize militias it sure as hell can regulate them.

10th amendment:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[kmrtnsn]

Government control over militias extends back to 1792, State's rights notwithstanding, the power to wage war and by extension control militias, is vested in the executive office, the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution has nothing to do with the matter.