View Full Version : Anyone use a tritium front post?
I have a KISS version of both my 16" and 11.5" Colts as backups. They are both mostly stock, with a couple of minor comfort upgrades (A1 grip, gapper, M4 handguards, etc.) to them. They are, other than barrel length, identical.
Lately I've become a huge fan of the tritium-front-only setup on my handguns, and am beginning to think that maybe the KISS carbines could benefit from this as well. I'm looking at the Trijicon front sight post (http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/productdetail.aspx?p=13170), but at $46/ea dealer price it's not exactly something I want to buy and, if I don't like it, wind up tossing in the parts bin.
So, does anyone have experience running a tritium front sight post on their AR? I'm not so much interested in theory as much as opinions from those that have actual experience shooting carbines with the sights. I'm especially interested in thoughts on how it affected your ability to make hits at longer range, if at all, and if it affected your ability to go from making hits at close-quarters to making hits at distance quickly.
I'd also like to have some idea of what the dot looks like through the small aperature of an A2 rear sight. Specifically, approximately how much of the hole does the dot take up given standard carbine sight radius? Is the post significantly thicker than the standard A2 post?
Yes, I have heard the theory that a tritium dot swinging around on a slung rifle can be a target indicator for the enemy, but that issue is a non-starter for me so let's not go there.
I suspect that at the end of the day I'll wind up ordering one just because I always seem to have to find out for myself (I always have to touch the bench, just to see if the "wet paint" sign is really true), but I'm still interested in the opinions of those that have gone before me.
Robb Jensen
05-08-07, 07:02
I don't like them just because of the width of the front sight post. Sure it's be great for 100yds for minute-of-perp, beyond that I would probably hate it.
Whatever you do don't get the rear tritium sight.
I'll definately be skipping the rear.
Frankly, all I'm really concerned with is 100 yards and in. For the intended purpose of these carbines I don't envision needing them beyond that distance. A side use for these rifles is as loaners; either for training/gaming or if actually needed. I'm thinking that the dot on the front sight may make it easier for non-shooters to focus where they're supposed to.
I've got one on a few guns -- I've been using the XS Sight BigDot.
I have one on my flight front KAC gun here in Iraq (I keep it flipped down)
I also have on a C8 Iron sight clone.
I dont really like them when using optics -- especially at night - since they take away from the reddot.
These carbines are dedicated irons with fixed A2 rears and standard FSBs.
I like them on Iron sight only guns...
However I did not like the Trijicon's regardless.
What about the Ashley do you prefer over the trijicon?
ETA:
Which of There (http://www.xssights.com/store/tactical.html) do you prefer?
carshooter
05-08-07, 10:23
I don't like them just because of the width of the front sight post. Sure it's be great for 100yds for minute-of-perp, beyond that I would probably hate it.
Whatever you do don't get the rear tritium sight.
Ditto.
I have a Meprolight front post on my KISS house gun and a Trijicon front sight post on the KISS carbine upper that used to be my beater "trunk gun".
I really don't like either of them because they're too wide.
I forgot I have one on my RO634 SMG as well (dust collector)
I like the big Dot -- since you just drop it one tgt and bang.
Its not precise -- but realistically an iron sighted carbine is not a precision weapon. Its fast and its simple.
My basic C7 upper has the Trijicon sights. However, for all my other setups I prefer a standard post. The tritium post is just too wide for my tastes.
I seem to be in the minority, but I like the Trijicon front. I've been using them on my guns for a long time now. I am not bothered by the dot through my optics. It is wider than a standard front sight post, but at 100yds and in I dont find it to be a hinderance. Working at night with a long gun, I think the pro's outweigh the cons even with optics. Without optics at night its a no brainer for me.
YMMV
Trey
ffhounddog
05-10-07, 13:28
http://www.gunblast.com/HiViz.htm
http://www.gunblast.com/HiViz.htm
I have the Hi-Viz Front Site Post I like these alot.
I went ahead and ordered one of the XS small dot fronts to try out. We'll see how it works out.
You will of course report back on what you find won't you? ;)
Having just completed Vickers/Hackathorn low light class, I will say that if your AR does NOT have a dot optic on it (or something that illuminates) you need a Tritium front. There were a couple guys in the class that did not have any optic and they suffered.
So my recommendation would be to get one and yes I do like the Trijicon front sight, but not if all I did was shoot irons.
C4
I've installed it, but it will be awhile before I can zero the rifle with it.
GastonG-NoVa
05-23-07, 16:53
I like the Trijicons as well, although I haven't tryed the others. I also only have them on iron sighted guns.
G
I have a green Trijicon lamp on the front sight of my LMT 16". That rifle has an ACOG on it as well, and the tritium doesn't bother it.
The tritium FSP from Trijicon isn't intended for long range or precision work. However I will strongly echo M4Grant's comment about having a lamp on any rifle with no optic. My rifles tend to get used in low light conditions a lot. I always grab the rifle with some kind of illumination whether it be a tritium vial on the FSB, or an EOthing, or whatever. You need something on the front sight to work in a reduced light setting.
The problem with tritium FSBs besides them being a little bigger(doesn't matter much to me close in YMMV) is that the lamp is installed below the shelf on the front sight. That throws your point of aim off. At 25yds and closer, it doesn't matter much, but farther out it can be an issue. I have a few drawings and ideas for a front sight that fixes this deficiency, I just need to find someone to make it for me. ?
One thig to remember is that if you are shooting in a low light setting, you will be splashing your target with a torch anyway(you have to ID your target right?). This action backlights your front sight and allows for shooting without a lamp. However, the tritium helps me get reoriented to the front sight for follow up shots more effectively that an iron that I have to find. It also allows you to find your front sight before you shine the light.
I really like the Trijicon tritium front sights and have them on my Glocks, and one of my ARs. The other rifles including the AK will be getting them soon. I personally consider them to be mandatory equipment. I only use front sights with tritium as well, the rear lamps are distracting and reduce my sight picture in my goofy opinion. I feel like they mess with my night vision just enough to reduce the clarity of my sight picture. YMMV.
If my optic goes down at night, which has happened to me before when I was about to shoot a feral dog that was killing my cats, the tritium front sight stands in very well. What's the point of having back up sights if they only work under good lighting conditions? You're probably going to need them during a low light encounter anyway. Get the lamps.
I have a green Trijicon lamp on the front sight of my LMT 16". That rifle has an ACOG on it as well, and the tritium doesn't bother it.
The tritium FSP from Trijicon isn't intended for long range or precision work. However I will strongly echo M4Grant's comment about having a lamp on any rifle with no optic. My rifles tend to get used in low light conditions a lot. I always grab the rifle with some kind of illumination whether it be a tritium vial on the FSB, or an EOthing, or whatever. You need something on the front sight to work in a reduced light setting.
The problem with tritium FSBs besides them being a little bigger(doesn't matter much to me close in YMMV) is that the lamp is installed below the shelf on the front sight. That throws your point of aim off. At 25yds and closer, it doesn't matter much, but farther out it can be an issue. I have a few drawings and ideas for a front sight that fixes this deficiency, I just need to find someone to make it for me. ?
One thig to remember is that if you are shooting in a low light setting, you will be splashing your target with a torch anyway(you have to ID your target right?). This action backlights your front sight and allows for shooting without a lamp. However, the tritium helps me get reoriented to the front sight for follow up shots more effectively that an iron that I have to find. It also allows you to find your front sight before you shine the light.
I really like the Trijicon tritium front sights and have them on my Glocks, and one of my ARs. The other rifles including the AK will be getting them soon. I personally consider them to be mandatory equipment. I only use front sights with tritium as well, the rear lamps are distracting and reduce my sight picture in my goofy opinion. I feel like they mess with my night vision just enough to reduce the clarity of my sight picture. YMMV.
If my optic goes down at night, which has happened to me before when I was about to shoot a feral dog that was killing my cats, the tritium front sight stands in very well. What's the point of having back up sights if they only work under good lighting conditions? You're probably going to need them during a low light encounter anyway. Get the lamps.
One of things you touched is an important point. If you have no dot optic and no tritium front post, then to properly ID and engage your target you will need to keep the light on longer as you cannot see your irons.
Shooters that have a tritium front/dot optic will be able to utilize the "flash bulb" illumination technique which is a better way to fight at night.
C4
ffhounddog
05-25-07, 22:35
Looks like I should replace my Hi-Viz front site soon.
Grant, thanks for explaining in a more concise way what I was trying to say about the front sights. The flashbulb technique is my favorite night time technique, and while your light is on you can't really see the tritium anyway, but once the light goes off, you can still place your shots with a higher degree of effectiveness. Good stuff.
Oh, and the high viz sights are fine on a competition gun. A lot of people seem to really like 'em. I don't understand the reasoning for them on a fighting gun because they just don't fill the need for a glow in the dark lamp post. Not that everyone uses the same tactics I do, but they wouldn't be something I would spend money on except for competition. YMMV.
Grant, thanks for explaining in a more concise way what I was trying to say about the front sights. The flashbulb technique is my favorite night time technique, and while your light is on you can't really see the tritium anyway, but once the light goes off, you can still place your shots with a higher degree of effectiveness. Good stuff.
Oh, and the high viz sights are fine on a competition gun. A lot of people seem to really like 'em. I don't understand the reasoning for them on a fighting gun because they just don't fill the need for a glow in the dark lamp post. Not that everyone uses the same tactics I do, but they wouldn't be something I would spend money on except for competition. YMMV.
Your welcome.
C4
I use a X/S 24/7 white stripe for the front sight. I find that a black post disappears quickly, even in good light, against a dark background, and it doesn't even exist in low light. With the white stripe, I have the tritium center, contrasted agains the white line around it, and that contrasted against the black surrounding the white.
The sight isn't particularly wide, and I don't put the sight over the target, but the target impact point over the sight, so width isn't an issue. The contrasting layers of the sight form index lines which are very slender, and make it possible to index the intended point of impact even more precisely. I find it an easier sight to use, easier to pick out with any backdrop or target, and easy to acquire in low light.
I have the X/S same plane rear. It came with tritium, which is fairly worthless in a rear sight, but the sight itself is fine. I mount them both (front and rear) fixed, rather than foldable, viewed through an EoTech, so I have the same sight picture every time, optics on or off, and no delays if the optic goes down.
Tritium sights on any gun can be a target indicator. This is not to say they should be avoided, just that this is something that needs to be properly understood in varying conditions and environments. Tritium use in fog can cause a significant glow around the sight with any weapon. A long gun's rear sight can illuminate the face. In a clear, dark environment a tritium front sight on a long gun can reflect off the lense or flip-filter cover of the weapon mounted light. The reflection can be visible to the front and both sides of the muzzle depending on the lense, flip cover positioning and positioning of equipment on the AR. It looks similar to a large luminous watch dial. If the weapon isn't used for serious work, this might not be a concern. The obvious advantages of tritium are well known and this not to say or imply that tritium usage is undesireable. It's just additional situational awareness and accessory usage worthy of consideration. A white light in fog is an eye opener. Range time in fog can be "illuminating" - try it. Just be sure of what's down range at the backstop.
I've installed it, but it will be awhile before I can zero the rifle with it.
Rob -
I'm bringing back an old thread regarding tritium posts rather than start a new one. What are your long term thoughts on these?
Anyone else have any input?
thx
Took it off the 5.56, put it on the 9mm 6450. Shot it twice, and it's sat in the safe since.
I liked it more on the 9mm than I did on the 5.56 as the 9mm is more of a close-range thing anyway.
i havent posted before about this, but I have an XS 24/7 small strip on my 6920 which I really like for a multitude of reasons...
first, as I get older, the front black sight post seems to "disappear" for me, and as someone earlier posted, the white contrast to the black rear sight really helps me set up on the target well....
in night conditions, the chances of me needing to hit something farther than 100 yards away with Iron sights is very, very slim....the carbine is my wife's go to gun in the house for a localized SHTF situation, and I absolutely want her to be able to see that front sight (so the bad guys die, and my 2 sons don't)...
PLUS...I have an ACOG on the rifle, so if I needed a distance shot at night, well, i'd just use that...if for some reason I am removing the ACOG and using the BUIS at night, its probably pretty damn close quarters....
I just had Grant build me an LMT that I think I am going to mount an Eotech on...I haven't decided if I am going to put the tritium front post on that rifle yet, because of the co-witnessing aspect.....with a battery powered optic though, I think they are even more crucial, because if you run out of power or lose your optic in the middle of a fight, its a hell of a lot easier to just sight through the BUIS and go than to change batteries.....
Took it off the 5.56, put it on the 9mm 6450. Shot it twice, and it's sat in the safe since.
I liked it more on the 9mm than I did on the 5.56 as the 9mm is more of a close-range thing anyway.
I know - "If you have to explain it to me - I wouldn't understand." Yes, I'm a newb, and you may be right! :D
But... Did you ditch them because they were two wide, didn't like the tritium glowing for some tactical reason, sight picture, etc? Do you still have KISS carbine that just have the BUIS, or did you go to some kind of optic on them? If just BUIS - did you go back to regular irons? Anything about the design, that may be better via another tritium design - in particular the XS 24/7 small strip post that 'trio' mentioned as this is the most appealing design to my eyes.
I couldn't imagine having a pistol without tritium, so I'm having a hard time not putting some on my AR.
thx
I found it distracting trying to make 100+ yard shots. That's why I took it off the 5.56. Wih the 9mm I have no intention of making 100+ yard shots, so it's a non-issue. It was also fatter, which I found hampered accuracy.
HAMMERDROP
10-07-08, 21:17
on my current weapon I am not sure if they will fit on Troy Battlesights I never asked so if you know chime in (Grant ???) ... I sold an M4-rgery in January which I had both front and rear Trijicon night sights on and I sure miss them. As I seen a few guys indicate the eyes are dwindling I have to say so are mine and night sights are a definite advantage over not having them. Rather have 'em and not need 'em that the opposite.
Michael
lonewolf21
10-07-08, 23:30
whats the issue of having tritium in the rear sight. i would think it a plus, other than possibly interfering with the red dot. i run a 1/3 co-witness with an eotech, larue mount, and a larue buis. i take my rifle on the street wiith me and was considering the tritum irons thing, with my optic. so whats up?
I also have to support the option of having the enhanced sight site at the rear. by having the circle enhanced, your eye will still automatically "center" the target. if it's too dark to see the target, it's too dark to see the front site; having an illuminated front site doesn't help alot in that case. It sounds "fuzzy" i agree, but this is the set up i use on a brush gun and in very low light conditions, i can still shoot with moderate degree of accuracy.
I have no use at all for a tritium rear. Too close to the eye.
VooDoo6Actual
10-08-08, 11:26
YES, and it mandatory IMO.
I have no use at all for a tritium rear. Too close to the eye.
agreed, the bright points of light might be overpowering, distracting and make sighting difficult, especially what that close to the eye. but a lower tech method of a simple ghost site with a brass face, helps the eye locate the center. I use this on a old 30-30 that is my brush gun and it works very well.
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