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Pat_Rogers
05-08-07, 09:13
EAG conducted a Carbine Operators Course aboard MCB Quantico May05-07. While always a pleasure to teach here, this class may have been the best Carbine Operators class at Quantico in the 5 years we have been doing this. 24 rock solid shooters with minimal gun problems, all hands switched on and great WX.
Much of the hard work in getting this (and other guest instructor classes) on line goes to the hard working Quantico Shooting Club President, John Murphy. John is apparently tireless and has a true and clear understanding as to how to bring all of the disciplines, sports and personalities together to make for a great experience.
We ran this class on R305 as Range 1 is undergoing rehab. This was a blessing in disguise as R305 is better suited to our style of training.
The class included 14 mil, a fed and Freddie Blish Tom Sziede from Aimpoint. Freddie and Tom provided information, advice and other data to the class relative to the Aimpoint line, as well loaner sights for the class.
I have an M4 Aimpoint, and I like it. That line gets more switched on as time goes by.
The Marines were a mix of Range staff, Doctrine writers and Precision Weapons Shop wizards (OK, one Engineer as well), providing a balanced and interesting crew. Their guns were a mix of M16A4’s (known as “muskets”, and for good reason) as well as M4’s.
There is a lot of heartburn ongoing due to a recent MCG article by a team shooter singing the praises of high power rifle and the quest for the Distinguished Rifle Badge as a basic for fighting. Having had the author in class I’ll state that he is clearly a great shooter, but lacking the skill sets necessary to understand that placing yellow glasses on your face does not a Grunt make.
Sights were primarily Aimpoints and RCO’s, with on AK shooter running irons after his rail loosened and made his EOTech useless. He is a solid shooter and can run irons, optics, AK or AR equally well.
The only gun problem of note happened within 10 minutes of ENDEX when a buffer detent let fly and stopped that gun cold. Kudos to the Gunny for getting it back up and running again.
Ammo problems were low, but ran the gamut from primers so deeply recessed that the firing pin was ineffective to case separations and crimped case necks, preventing chambering, and a primer seated backwards. No ammo (gun, optic, car and so on) is perfect. Deal with it.
We had the usual run of mag problems- mags not dropping free (minor) feed lips spreading (major). Note that we are seeing the hk mag springs weakening, and (as usual with hk) there are no spare springs from them. I am not aware of any commercial aftermarket springs either.
Hint- if your magazine has “BAD” scratched across the baseplate or written in Sharpie across the side, consider this to be a clue and use another mag instead…..
Thanks to Mike Hueser for his hard work and for keeping me on track. Kudos to Viking Tactics, CamelBak, Larue Tactical and Eagle Industries, EOTech and S&B for their continued support.
We are looking forward to next year at Quantico.

ChrisG19
05-08-07, 12:00
The class - As this was my first carbine class, there were a lot of new skills for me. The only carbine/rifle training I had prior to this was 16+ years ago at Fort Benning when I went through Basic and AIT. Pat, and his AI Mike, provided outstanding instruction and coaching. When I screwed up, they fixed me. If I had a question, they answered it and explained why.

Actually, I'm at a loss for words to explain how much I really enjoyed this class! I learned more than I thought I would, such as the different prone positions, box drills, NSR, turning (90 and 180 degrees), how much my slight astigmatism would screw me on the occluded sight drill, push-pull and shooting on the move. I was always to taught to shoot when both feet are on the ground. Well, if you're thinking where your feet are, you aren't thinking about shooting - my accuracy went up when I stopped thinking about my foot position. "When it's time to shoot, shoot..."

Equipment

Carbine - 16" LMT upper on an LMT lower, standard collapsible stock with standard buffer. Aimpoint ML2 in a LaRue mount, LaRue BUIS and a Blue Force Vickers sling. There were no equipment failures of any kind during the course. No cleaning was done at all, only lube. At the start of each day, I would oil the bolt by putting a few drops on it and rub it all over with my finger, same with the bolt carrier. Throughout the day, when my relay was complete, I would pull the bolt back to where the gas rings were exposed in the witness holes and put one drop of Hoppe's lubricating oil in each one and work the bolt 2 or 3 times.

Handgun - Glock 19 in an RM Holsters PDL. Worked like it always does.

Mags - 5 Magpul P-Mags were used exclusively. The first 2 days, I loaded with 28 rounds to make sure I could load on a closed bolt. On the third day, I loaded to 30 and I could seat the mag on a closed bolt just fine. There were no issues or failures at all, I'll be buying more.

Ammo - Black Hills remanufactured 55 gr. FMJ. No failures.

Support Gear - Initially I was going to run this course with an Eagle plate carrier, mag pouches up front and a CamelBak. However, as the class dates approached, I changed my mind decided to run as realistic (for me) as possible. So I ordered an Eagle Active Shooter Patrol Bandoleer which holds 4 M4 mags and 2 9mm mags. I didn't attach it to the belt in order to simulate a "grab-and-go" type scenario. It was worn on my left side with the strap on my right shoulder. Going through the different drills, I was able to put it where it wasn't in the way. Keep in mind that the mags won't always be in the same place. The only problems I had were, 1) the pistol mag catch notch would snag on the top edge of the stitching. Perhaps a Kydex liner would help? 2) It would be nice if there was a way to secure the M4 mag pouch covers in the open position. I just folded them over the back and it worked fine.

Operator Headspace - That little foam thingy in the Aimpoint battery compartment is there for a reason. The day before the class, I went to verify my zero. Much to my dismay, after the first shot the sight went dark on my ML2. WTF? Put a new battery in, still no dot. I decided my Aimpoint was tango uniform and resigned myself to using iron sights for the class. Luckily, there were two Aimpoint reps in the class as well. Thanks to their generosity, I was able to use the new Aimpoint M4 for TD1. I brought my "broke" ML2 the next day which they fixed on the spot. That's service.

Huge thanks to Pat for having classes available for us earth-people, Quantico Shooting Club for hosting Pat and the Weapons Training Battalion, MCB Quantico for use of the range.

I'm already saving my pennies for the next class. :D

Pat_Rogers
05-08-07, 14:00
Thanks for the kind words! This was a great class to get broken in on, and we couldn't have asked for a better time and place.
Look forward to seeing you the next time!

Wayne Dobbs
05-08-07, 15:14
And how did Pat do this time on his sensitivity to the students' feelings and his attention to being inoffensive and generally a PC kinda' guy? Pretty bad again, huh? Oh well, I will line up and give him money to do that to me again next March in TX....

Steel_Weasel
05-08-07, 15:28
And how did Pat do this time on his sensitivity to the students' feelings and his attention to being inoffensive and generally a PC kinda' guy? Pretty bad again, huh? Oh well, I will line up and give him money to do that to me again next March in TX....

As stated, this crew was pretty switched on so the crying and hurt feelings were at a minimum.

Wayne Dobbs
05-08-07, 17:28
And one of Pat's best qualities is that he's stone cold real and honest with the students! I can't wait to get another dose of that honesty.

ChrisG19
05-08-07, 18:01
And one of Pat's best qualities is that he's stone cold real and honest with the students!

Yep, another reason I thoroughly enjoyed the class.

LukeMacGillie
05-08-07, 18:02
He threw an expended shell casing at me!

It was a real great class, The switched on shooters were a real pleasure to shoot with. There was not the down time can happen when you get someone taking their first tactical training.

I loved the gag certificate for "That Guy"
:D

Aubrey
05-08-07, 20:49
And one of Pat's best qualities is that he's stone cold real and honest with the students! I can't wait to get another dose of that honesty.

Wayne,
Are you needing another magnet for your toolbox? :D

Pat_Rogers
05-09-07, 05:34
Wayne= we have dates for the Brady class, and will be posting it shortly.

Wayne Dobbs
05-09-07, 08:26
Pat,

Roger that...Lloyd had PM'd them to me earlier this week and they are already committed on my Outlook calender....